Twenty-Five Twenty-One: How Accurate is the Fencing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มี.ค. 2022
- Rumor has it that Kim Junho will make an appearance in the next season of the is Korean Drama. Let's have a look at the fencing.
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I am a former fencer, I won't say that her performance was just like an actual fencer, but DAMN she became this good just training for SIX MONTHS... she deserves an award for perfection.. if you are an athlete pls respect ...big big applause
I thinked first that with 6 months training you are pretty good. Than I remembered that when I begin to fence after 6 month I couldn't even make a parry.
If this is her after six months she could win the Olympics after 2 years
A big applause for the main lead Kim Taeri (Na Heedo) for practicing fencing for 6 months and filming the drama for another 6 months. The dedication tho!!
Ko yu rim to
And she learned French!
I've watched her Mr sunshine drama which was very good. Is this one also good?
@@oplog5299 very good! Its a 11/10
@@blackpinktrashbin3468 TQ
The fencing program is in danger of getting cut due to budget concerns 10/10 realism
Lollllll yes. Fencing program at my school also almost get cut, not for budget concerns but stilllll
"realistically empty stands :(" lmao I fucking died
also I'm so fucking mad that netflix didn't recommend this to me like all these algorithms all these companies selling our personal info and for what??
XDD TRUEEE
I’m a big Kdrama fan, also a 15+ years fencer. I was so scared and worry when it first announced that a fencing drama is being made, because of ALL of the previous representation on TV, but as it’s about fencing, I chose to give it a chance. Surprisingly it was made pretty well, and I was so pleased for how realistic it is. I learn that the two main actress has trained for more than 3 months for the row, and they pays off. Very impressed and hope there are more accurate fencing representation on media in the future!!! Great work #2521 !!
I got curious about fencing and I've been checking fencers' insights like this one.
I saw from an article that BONA(Ko Yurim) and Kim Taeri(Na Heedo) both trained for 6 months upon getting casted. And Taeri logged her practices in a training diary which was actually used in the drama later on.
Kim Taeri is nominated for best actress in the 2022 Baeksang Arts Awards in South Korea I hope she wins on May 6 😭
NHD trained for 6 months just to play the role 😭
K dramas are extremely educational. I've learned about so many professions- lawyers, doctors, businessmen, journalists, editors, now fencing! I love it 😎
And history ! If you like watching historical kdrama
Exactly!!!
Which drama is good for business if I may ask ??
@@chem3324 lawless lawyer
@@chem3324 Extraordinary Attorney Woo. Because the lead character has Autism Spectrum Disorder. The actress playing her is more than amazing.
This is probably the BEST we're going to get when it comes to how accurately fencing (especially sabre) is depicted in media. And to be honest, the inaccuracies (as I feel you're implying) aren't even THAT bad. For a show like this, it's better for the presentation to make an event that canonically took place in 1999 (back when we have 250 ms timing) look like it would have taken place this year.
Plus, I feel like a K-drama would care to get it right because of how well Korean fencers have done in recent years, especially Sang-uk Oh and the F4 boys (of which Oh is a member), with F4 being the nickname for the men's sabre team.
And yeah, that attack looked simultaneous INDEED... but, again, it's a VERY nitpicky kind of mistake, and not uncommon. Still the best representation of sabre so far (that and Sunshine).
Also.... how did that sabre make it through the armory check if the WHOLE weapon fell apart?
It happens when the blade breaks at the tang. Nothing an armory check could do to prevent that.
@@SlicerSabre I stand corrected!
@@chukuemekaoje1015 i have heard a funny story about how my friend's sabre broke and all he had was handle in his hand but I've never actually seen that happen in women's sabre irl (surely it's happened with women i bet).
Check out the movie SUNSHINE staring Ralph Fiennes.
@@noahz already mentioned that movie in my comment :)
They worked on training for months for this drama and BONA who did ko yu rim apparently had bruises from all the training they did. even if it's not 100% accurate they put in so much effort
4:16 a valid reason as to why korean dramas may be more accurate, actors usually have to go through training and not only do they have to go through trainings. Many actors are usually advised to study the characters to be able actually act the characters. Example of this is Shin Hye- sun who played a ballerina in Angel's Last Mission. She had to go through hardcore training of ballet for around 6 months to be able to play the role. In Touch Your Heart, it was shown that actors would have to go through the general training of a lawyer since she was going to play a role of a lawyer. (bro, my brain cells died while writing this)
I've never seen a blade break like that, but at the same time this is so much better than the other stuff I've seen.
It happens when it breaks at the tang. Not that uncommon.
I've had it happen to me only once. I'm someone who almost never breaks sabres; when it happened with a four-year-old sabre of mine, I was completely flabbergasted.
@@ryanwaasdorp I'm a foilist so in the many times blades have been broken in my experience, it's almost always in the middle
Not too surprising, I had a saber that had trouble registering touches once, a blade breaking at the tang is nothing
@@Sammy-cq5gp I've fenced 3 years of foil then 10+ years of sabre, it almost never breaks at the tang for foil blades but it's quite common for sabre blades to break there. Just had one break there a week ago and it was quite hilarious. I froze in my parry and literally watched as my blade fell apart till only the handle was left in my hand.
So basically accurate fencing with slight creative embellishments because it’s a drama
Equipment failures? Bad referees? Empty stands?
This may as well be last week for me, you can really tell how much research was done
i thought their fencing was really impressive considering they had no prior experience
6 months training did it 🙌🏻🤜🏻🤛🏻
6 months Taeri and I believe 3 months Bona, really hard work out there
* and also I need to point out that they were trained by olimpic winning fencers 🤺
Spoiler alert 🚨
I really loved this series. But…the ending caused me an emotional trauma that I can’t get over it since it ended. Every time, I see video or a reel about it, am in pain.
Is it gl?
@@hiitzjustarandomperson176 no. The story and morals are chef's kiss regardless.
same girl same.. its a really good drama but the ending makes me in pain.
what ending? the fact that they're not ended up together? i mean, it obviously already warned since the very first episode
same here :((
Not surprised that it's pretty accurate considering how much thought and effort was clearly put into other aspects of the show
Thank you very much for the video!
I felt that the scoring boards looked a bit advanced too. Also in later scenes, Baek yi jin's laptop looked slim like recent laptops. I rmb laptops being bulky a decade ago. Except the minor discrepancies, the show did a great job with the 1999 setting.
Maybe old Laptops are not sold anymore or old software programs can not be used
this kdrama made me interesting in fencing!!! now im thinking to start learning it after my exams ❤❤
Thanks for this show! More kids know fencing! It reminds me one funny story what our club parents told me. They went to a fencing competition in tennis court. Due to wrong schedule, some tennis kids arrived there but cannot play. Their parents were so mad and complained. The interesting part was they complained how expensive they pay for tennis. Fencing parents 🧐At least tennis racket won’t be broken, but blade will be frequently broken! 😂
Spoiler: In the drama, the ref's call is depicted controversial. The 2 episodes covering that part are pretty great with small bits like camera flashes interrupting the game, better recording of the games, sporting spirit, the dilemma for both athletes, public reaction and outrage, etc.
Edit: Also in other games, the ref also tells the players to wear the masks, get to the position and not waste time.
Great video! just wanted to point out at 4:22 the surname of the Australian fencer in that Chinese show appears to be "Aussie", which is completely accurate, we're all called that
Huh??
Is that a thing??
Shouldn't that be player's name? I mean they already put Australia below why with the nickname for a person from Australia?? 🤔🤔
Friendship ended with Attack it, Lightning! Now Twenty-five Twenty-one is my best friend
I have never seen the first drama you nominated, is it good and coerent about Fencing?
Great camera work! Felt like being in the middle of a bout
Foil fencer here. cool to see a movie put this much effort into making fencing look accurate. I have a few saber questions though: Do sabers ever actually break like that? Foils pretty much only snap near the middle to end of the blade, and you would have to hit insanely hard to get the entire blade to dislodge from the grip and bell guard. Also, foil fencer again, but wouldn't the ref's call for the last touch be correct? Apart from him taking forever to make the call, it seems like the arm moving out first on the right side was correct. Again, this might just be my foil brain not comprehending saber properly, but if I were a ref and didn't want to throw out the touch i probably wouldve called touche right.
Sabres quite frequently break at the tang like that it's not unusual at all. I don't think many referees today would split that action, the differences between both fencers is so marginal. By 1999 refereeing trends this would 100% be given as simultaneous, but referees make mistakes a lot in sabre and this is definitely a realistic mistake for a referee to make.
@@SlicerSabre tbh i saw it as attack left but I'm an epeeist so 😕
I've seen foils and epee's break in that manner.
its super rare, but ive seen that break before in sabre.
chinese blades break there often - foil, epee and sabre as we use them at my club for club weapons we have lots breaking at the tang (they last a long time.. but don't often break at the blade)
This was so good I loved it I heard they are coming out with a new season!!
he's already appeared in a cameo in episode 13 >.
For those who are wondering... of COURSE it's Jun-ho Kim. Sorry for the spoilers.
if you pay attention to the show, the breaking blade represents the "I don't know how to put them in words" but I can explain. The next scene you can see the reporter knew He Do was gonna win literally he said something like "It's not just her blade was breaking, her will was broken too".
Then back to the story between HeDo and YuRim, YuRim kind of had a trauma because HeDo defeated her many years ago when both of them were kids, and HeDo has a thing YuRim doesn't, money which her family has always been struggling on, that makes her didn't even like HeDo more.
Then many years later HeDo became YuRim's fan and tried her ass off to be better which she did. But YuRim didn't accept that fact, this scene shows the fact the HeDo could defeat YuRim AGAIN, it's not just the blade breaking her will beaks too.
I hope this helps. by the day, there is a huge shame that the ending could have been better
Families with money sometimes lack something REALLY important though and it rings true in HeeDos Situation when she was a young fencer (after her dad died) - love. That's why she stayed away from her reporter mom so much. She was mean
Oh yes! Its not about how they play(mostly) its about the story telling. I hope this will get pin 😊🤙🏻
I got to know about fencing from this drama and now I'm in love with it
Omg the realistically empty stands 🤣
I have a friend hes a fencer at penn state. This is nice watch bcs i always watch my friend compete
Im really happy they made a series about fencing because it truly is the greates sport and i recommend it to everyone
I heard somewhere (idk if it's right since I dunno Korean) that for the Asian Games' scenes, Won Woo Young (the man in black lame) came to practice for the actors.
Link: th-cam.com/video/OMF6pBzDn2Q/w-d-xo.html
- And ofc Korean would did better fencing-based (sabre) drama since their sabre team (both men and women) did great job and pretty popular at Korea.
I'm not a fan of fencing but after watching this video I found it to be a very interesting sport. Maybe I'll spend more time to learn about fencing
My impulse to attack on wrist was triggered throughout.
you got me at the “realistically empty stands” 😭😭
can you pls do a video (or keep doing) about modern olympic fencing in movies/ tv.
what about the hungerian movie sunshine for exmple
I honestly think that most of if not all the inaccuracies are to make it more flamboyant and dramatic. Obviously when you're in the mask it feels more intense than just watching saber for someone who doesn't have any clue what's going on. Although since I know what's happening I don't know if I could watch this show lmfao.
honestly I'm a foilist not a sabreur but I still think that call could be payed attack right.
from my understanding, extending the arm isn't the only reason attack in prep can be called - on slow mo replay it seems clear that fencer on the right is making a "correct" attack while the fencer on the left seems to hesitate ever-so-slightly at the end of the action. ergo right displays intention to attack earlier than left.
have no idea about 1999 refereeing though - wasn't around then lol
you missed that they’re using the clock for some reason
So this is why perfectly normal sabre matches have all those comments
The only thing that bothers me is that the computerized sounds from blade collisions sound off, which is obviously a minor nitpick. Otherwise, I’m super impressed.
I remember everytime the actors would scream in a match I would laugh because it's soo true but funny idk maybe because they are trying to be authentic and it is just funny for me to realize they gotta shout everytime
Anyone else notice that the fencing logos in the background are from the Rio 2016 olympics pictogram set?
i do now....
it looks really accurate
Whatever you said. They are so cute.
I've had that break several times. I tend to overtighten my pommel so i get breaks at the bottom or top of the guard. On time I made a parry to a strong attack and on my riposte, the only thing left in my hand was my grip. Blade, guard and pommel were on the floor and socket was hanging from my wrist. Pretty funny. Oooopsie.
That breaking has a backstory 😊
2521 introduced me to fencing…I didn’t even know a game like this existed because this is not at all popular in my country
There is (in later episode) a conversation in the series about filming it Chinese style (over the top with wire harness and everything) when they film a documentary about the game... It feel like a jab to the Chinese drama lol
Fencing is exciting enough, why the overdramatic with all that flowery visual. That Chinese movie scene hurt my eye lol. Why is the receiving fencer stumble back like he was hit with a full force punch :))
Also the ref "mistake" I think it's an intentional one from the writer: later in the episode Ko Yurim (the losing fencer) complaint about the decision and create a whole episode of drama, so they may be planting something fishy here (I'm not a fencer, I don't really know if that change anything regarding the ref decision :D )
I haven't watched the series and I watched this scene without subtitles so I didn't understand the dialogue. I'm sure I missed lots of explanation. Referees make mistakes all the time and it does create a lot of drama so it would make a good plot point.
@@SlicerSabre yeah on second watch of your analysis, the plot point is the ref think Heedo (right fencer) hit first, Yurim try to dispute and create a whole mess in the media. Honestly I think it's more about the toxicity of the media than actual sport, as Yurim comes to regret raising the dispute.
It's a nice romcom, with kinda just right cheese and a good amount of sport - there are more sport scenes which are really interesting and captivating. I don't fence, but from martial art point of view, I think the training montage and the overall stuff is nice and I don't see any red flag. Prob one of the best sport drama ever made, without hyperbole.
Also what do you think the value of body mass in fencing? As martial art learner, I think the right fencer (Heedo) has an advantage as she seem to have more body mass which give advantage in martial art, but idk how that help in fencing - she could be dominating, donot get tired as easily or any other advantage? There is a line by the coach (both athletes are trained by the same coach) about how Heedo is stronger and have an advantage over Yurim, but it's also state that Yurim is actually better (at this point in the plotline)
The way the blade breaks is also unusual.
First sabre I broke fell apart like that, was kinda surprising cause I had never seen it happen before. Took the parry and the blade just fell apart in my hands
it just represents how the player's confidence fall apart. It's a drama so it is natural to add dramatic essense into the game.
It was pretty accurate
My favorite is when people want to fence because of Attack it Lightning, and then get mad when they can't fence like that, or get in trouble for doing so.
I'm just confused. It is normal for a blade to break near the base?? I usually only see it break near the tip and stuff, near the base seems unlikely.
only very rarely seen before but with Chinese blades - my club bought a lot for club gear and they are always breaking at the tang (they last a long time and most often break at the tang exactly like this... it is a weird feeling to be holding the grip and all the rest is on the floor...lol)
Is the clock running?
Altough I'm not a fencer I loved every scene that included fencing. I wish I could learn more about fencing, what it is like to be a professional fencer and more information about this sport in general because ever since I watched this kdrama I have been extremely interested in it. Unfortunately I can't find the information I am looking on the internet since I think fencing is not as popular as other sports (correct me if I am wrong though!!) All in all twenty five twenty one was excellent in every single way.
you're right fencing is no where near as popular.... it is hard to find info. about fencing as there are three weapons (foil, epee and sabre) and there is right of way in foil and sabre (that is if you start attacking opponent you have the right of way if you both hit you get the point... if you parry the attacker you take the right of way....lol... confusing... i know...) but in epee if your light is on you get the hit... no right of way...
sorry i have probably made it more confusing...
in the commonwealth games when new Zealand ran it they had a stronger bowls team than fencing so they dropped fencing and fencing can't seem to get back into the commonwealth games (they hold a separate commonwealth fencing championships... but not the same...lol)
@@albertbresca8904 I know right? I just can't seem to find information about it. Even if I search how to get into the national team, honestly nothing comes up. But your explanation made it more clear. I always wondered (especially at the beginning) how do you get a point in sabre. Now I finally understand. Also didn't know that in epee there is no right of way. Thank you very much!
@@lalalaa98 thanks..
i was afraid i had made it more confusing....
fencing is great fun as it is not a team sport and you don't have to whack the other person (you only have to tap them very lightly) to score a point.. think of foil and epee as point only weapons and the tips are not sharp but like doorbells.. when you hit your opponent - ding dong... light...
and sabre like the game operation - you hit the side and you get a buzz...
they call fencing physical chess as you have to think as well as act physically (and for me it was my first sport at 17 - i was a weedy little kid with glasses never picked for team sports) but fencing... well it was fun ..
what country are you from? google fencing club near you to see what is nearby and look at maybe doing a beginners course (so you can curse me when you find it isn't so easy... lol... i have had lots of good times in fencing and some pretty bad ones - luckily i have never been injured after fencing for more than 30 years... well bruised .. scratched and welts...lol)
@@albertbresca8904 I was never a sporty person either. When I discovered fencing it felt like a whole new world lol. I like the fact that injuries are not common. It was something that always scared me when it comes to sports. I'm planning to start fencing in the future. I hope to compete one day. If that ever happens I will certainly remember that I used to be clueless and tried to find info on the internet day and night only to end up coming across the same articles over and over again lol.
You definitely didn't make it more confusing!
@@lalalaa98 whatever you do, don't worry about how you look fencing - it will feel (or look) foolish... took me a long while to get it but i was lucky the people in the club were great (and they probably liked beating new people...lol... i was enthusiastic but not very good... i became a senior at my club as the older more experienced people graduated and left.... but they were nice people as well.. and i still miss them (well some of them..lol))..
when i started fencing there was no such thing as FIE gear (when you start they will talk about it.. expensive kevlar stuff...sigh) i had a jacket made by a local lady that was 2 t shirts thick and no requirements to wear a plastron (a half under jacket for more protection) and I competed in that to national level and no injuries..
now it is 800N kevlar jacket, breaches and plastron with a 1600N stainless steel mask (i competed at a high level (wth varying success..lol) so had to buy the expensive gear..sigh)
Where can i find someone to buy me a full set of all star :)))
Where do you live?
Is this on Netflix for the UK?
It's a Netflix drama (meaning tvN made it in partnership with Netflix and they have international distribution rights outside Korea) so it might well be!
@@whatsup968 thanks. Will have a look for it at the weekend.
The "realistic empty stand" :(
Empee, Sabre or Foil?
Nooooo weapons don't fall apart that easily (with that kind of hit depicted in the video)
But solid video, and very good choreography, even reflects off of the older fencing style
Mine do lol
Sometimes they do.
It is not common, but definitely can happen in sabre.
chinese blades often break at the tang (all three weapons)
Sometimes they do! Especially if you have an older blade and are fond of taking close parries/guard clashing with others, which weakens it at the base and then when a lucky hit lands - boom!
Are they doing Sabre, Epee, or Foil?
Sabre
leme who's fencing player😩💕💪
I think the most unrealistic part is Ko You Rim being really upset over her broken blade... I'm an epee fencer, but I think I can speak for most of us that when a blade breaks, we just shrug it off and get another one (unless it's like, our best weapon breaking or something like that). But I'm aware that saber fencers, go through a LOT of weapons at a time where for me at least it takes a year for one my weapons to break, and when I did foil it was 3-6 months. So, I imagine even less so for saber fencers?
They also have to consult the video at 14-14 🤣
Pretty sure video review didn't exist in 1999
The show #2521 got me interested tho I've known fencing since i was a kid my sis used to have that kind of sword so i keep touching and do stuff with it pretty fun but unfortunate with money so even if i want it🙅🏻♀️
Anyway *what's the difference between Foil and Saber??* I dont want google answer since the op issa player. Might aswell take their answers than google 😊🙏🏻
referees wont say point and finall it was simuln tane
as an advanced epee fencer, 0:20-0:24 is the most unrealistic thing i have ever seen. no matter the weapon, you CANNOT dismember a sabre, foil, or epee by just whacking it. and even if you could end up doing so, no way would the cut be that clean! fencing is one of the most poorly portrayed sports in television programs and people should really do more research about it. its not just two people running at each other and whacking each other with a sword, theres much more to it and people should really stop making stereotypes for fencing.
I mean, a saber at the end of its lifespan or one with a factory defect could very well break like this, it’s not unheard of
I could never fence saber. 5 refs would’ve been down for the count by now
lol... totally understandable... sabre ref's are a pain....
i have never seen a sword fall right off the guard. No one makes a big deal of the sword breaking, just go get your spare. They could have made getting a yellow card for starting too soon off the line a good emotional plot point, even if it not totally accurate. it would be accurate than the whole blade falling off like its some lego piece.
Ah then we wont be able to see the story line and focus only on the matches??
That's what you want?
Go watch documentaries then 😊
my club is seeing a lot of blades break at the tang (the cheap Chinese ones..) lately... mind you not from such a weak parry as her opponent is making with he top of her weapon (the weaker part of the blade)
hi I'm a sabre fencer and in 3:24 the judge is wrong be because they touch each others at the same time and they both atac at the same time so this not a point for anyone and the judge can't say "atac ,atac "for both it's not meaning anything
Many coaches encourage their girl students to scream as a way of getting them aggressive. Saberists tend to scream the most irrespective of sex, but their concept of right of way is the fuzziest and they're trying to convince the ref they were the attacker.
why does fencer loves to scream 😅
combination of adrenalin rush and to influence the call of the referee - as is subjective and up to referee to decide so some people shout loudly to let the ref know the hit is theirs (even if it isn't.. and they know it)
Is this show gl?
No 😅🤣😂
I remmber that i tried watching this drama cos it keeps showing to my shorts about 2 girls. I do thought twas gl drama, watched and liked it so i continued anyway thinking it'll be fine. Not really fine༼;´༎ຶ ༎ຶ༽
Geez they had me at 3rd quarters ಥ_ಥ ngl and left me hanged crying
Name the miove
1999 was the first year women could compete in fencing??
1999 was the first year there was a women's sabre event at the world championships. Initially women could only compete in foil, then sometime later an epee event was added. Women's sabre was the last event to be added.
@@SlicerSabre in 2521, was it Sabre or foil fencing which was shown? Ko Yu rim won gold for the 1997 international fencing championships. Did she win the sabre or foil fencing in 1997?
@@fan5382 The girls are competing in sabre
It's not realistic since it's drama - as Slicer said, women sabre was officially added in 1999 in World Champ, the event was added in Asian Games in 2002 and even when they wrote Yurim won the Olympics gold in like 1990s, the women sabre was actually only added "pretty recently" in 2004 at Athens.
The realistic stuff is the IMF background where financial came as a problem, the fencing battle scenes since there were help from professional and carefully researches.
Other than that, the timing of fencing (1990s) was a little unrealistic. For ex. FILA doesn't even sponsor them until ~2018/2019; the piste in the scene is the modern piste, the calls from referees also nowadays trend. I know this is a Korean drama so the nationality doesn't come as a prob, but reality the most unrealistic here probably in 90s, Asia wasn't even a thing in fencing and they just recently developed after post-2008 Olympics. So they (Asia) battling for gold in Olympics like 3 consecutive titles in early 2000s prob the most unrealistic thing.
If there is another Korean fencing drama, I hope they emphasize on another hardship: starting from the time that they are not a thing, then gradually developed into a country with many top fencers since fencing basically European stuff.
As a former fencer i’d say the accuracy is mediocre. Like the footwork and bladework is really good, its how it is executed, as normally as a sabre fencer the fencers would be going so much more faster and being able to run backwards, their footwork looked really stiff from this point of view
almost 69 likes
Yellow flag improper care of equipment
Fencers like to scream realy not me some do but is a minority.
Don't watch this drama.
No likes, deserved