This video is a ridiculous reaction to a critical review. She hulk is bad it's a fact even before the writers the actress and mark himself shows the show's pretending to be successful. Cmon man are you joking or being a serious critical dude?😂😂😂 On another note he's a genuinely nice guy who doesn't do the things you say at all. He makes a good point and people actually like his videos. You of all people don't actually think she hulk tv is good right? The comics are good. The tv show is a failure made by a comic hater and a propagandist.
I wasn’t a huge fan of She-Hulk. The daredevil episode was pretty much the only one I enjoyed. But watching CD’s videos on it just made me angry, they weren’t good arguments for… anything.
She hulk is so over hated. People found literally anything to complain about. The show is just kinda boring to me and that’s it personally. As a dude you have to have very thin skin to get offended by anything in she hulk
She-Hulk is no worse than any of the other low grade nonsense Marvel's young writers have cobbled together lately. It's all written at a rather embarrassing level at this point, except spider-man
i actually liked she hulk overall, and the humor worked better as it was more slice of life compared to other mcu properties, the only thing that didnt work for me was the ending
That was actually the only thing I didn't like about She-Hulk. Men don't do the walk of shame! If anything, we swag home the morning after! "Yeah! I got some!" 😎
@@iamyouarei9497 The way I see it is this - Nobody disagrees that marvel's quality isn't where it should be. Nobody AGREES why that is. I personally lean on it NOT being due to 'sjws' or 'wokeness'. The issue with She Hulk was that it was trying to be Allie McBeel 20 years too late and to the wrong audience. I personally though the shows was fine, not great, but not terrible. I certainly don't think it was hateful towards men. Just mocking of a certain type of man. But there's the thing . . . If you know you're not that type of man, there's nothing to take offense about.
I understand that every show and movie can be critiqued but what bothers me is when people start calling everything the “ woke agenda “ anytime they see a person of color, a female lead character, or someone that’s apart of the LGBT community. It’s like they want every single movie to revolve around straight white men and everyone else should either be a token character that’s simply there to help the lead white character or not be represented at all.
Exactly, in general if they use the word "agenda" it's usually an indicator that they aren't worth taking seriously, because they've probably been watching people like Andrew tate, or Rogan, or Crowder and have been manipulated into thinking they're under attack by a certain group
To the anti-woke there are only two genders - male and political -and only two races - white and political. Can't take credit for that line, but once you hear it you see it everywhere.
I read a much-upvoted comment on a TCD video saying they no longer even WATCH a movie if a PoC is featured - just to escape "Hollywood wokeism". Dude legit felt he was in a safe space to inadvertently declare he'd descended into a full-blown knee-jerk racist
It's particularly egregious when the complaints are about social justice issues in modern takes of properties that have always been loudly and consciously about social justice issues. "How dare a show called She-Hulk center around the female experience?!" is a really weird flex. To be fair, TCD has already managed to complain about diversity in modern Star Trek, so willful blindness to irony in this case can't be much of a stretch for him.
I liked that in the comics Bruce's normal hulk is a separate entity due to Bruce's history of trauma. Jen is (usually) a stable hulk because she doesn't have the same history. There's also a separation that I think kind of existed in the show where Bruce's hulk is triggered by anger and Jen's is triggered by anxiety. IDK, maybe themes about how patriarchy forces men to internalize emotions where women are allowed to be more expressive.
@@ConspiracyGamesAndPodcastClips Honestly, that's how how She-Hulk transformation usually also depicted in comic. There are other Hulk-Persons who are transformation also, like Jen, are not triggered by anger. There's A-Bomb, triggered by feeling guilty. Doc Samson, by the need to be a Hero. Father and daughter pair, Red-Hulk and Red She-Hulk, by controlled anger. None of them, like Jen, gone through a long first-time hulking berserk phase. hell, as I recall, Doc Samson and all variant of Red-Hulks never gone through any berserk phase at all. Doc Samson manage to psycho analized his hulk form to bits, Red She-Hulk is just cold-anger, Red-Hulk is way too military he able to discipline his anger.
How I've heard it explained is that the Hulk was always a split personality inside Bruce from childhood trauma given form by the gamma accident. It's unclear to me if he ever had any "Hulk episodes" before the gamma accident tho or if it was just a dormant split personality until it was given form and thus more power inside his psyche
It definitely seems like Drinkypoo has just never had a friendly interaction with another human being before. Like, all three of his examples (of the writers supposedly shouting character details at the audience) are just the most normal, human moments of interaction. In fact, understanding the dynamic makes the text of what they're saying less reliable because they're likely exaggerating the positives to be more supportive. Any person who's ever had a friend would understand this, right?
@Porter-1488 Yes youre right. Men are so cruel to other men and look down on them when they dare to step outside the box of "masculinity" And remember to check up on your friends! The best cure to male loneliness is being there for each other
@Porter-1488 Hulk and Daredevil were villains in this? I must have missed that scene. As far as I remember, even the literal villains weren't villains, they were a support group. To be fair, I don't have perfect recall, so you may be right. But, in my defense, it's only been... *scroll up* an entire year since I made this comment, and even longer since I watched the show. Nice attempt at necromancy, dude. Now, please go outside.
He needs to pander to his audience of anti-woke manchildren which shows his hypocrisy. He still makes an attempt which is already an upgrade from his kind who will judge how bad a show or film is just based on screenshots and trailers.
I've watched Drinker's review of Midsommar and that was enough for me. He says some really dumb shit and it's like he has short term memory when he watches movies.
to be fair in the comic Jen really didn't have a choice she was loosing blood from being shot and Bruce was the only one with a matching blood type that could give her a transfusion.
@@marvelboy74 Yeah it would have gone over pretty badly for a comedy show I do like it as a different take for her tho, honestly tho I would love to see a more serious take on her, but that isn't this show and should be this show since it's a comedy not a drama.
They state that the Drinkers version would rob her of her agency, when in the version we got she also had no agency: it was coincidence. You could argue that the writers would rather want coincidence to be the cause of her getting her powers, than like it seems to be in the comic, let it be Bruce's decision to save her.
@@OthelloSilvermoon Also Bruce, Jennifer, and his mom and her dad have a genetic abnormality (possibly mutant gene) that when exposed to any kind of radiation it won't kill them including gamma In avengers 2012 , Tony outright tells Bruce he should of died , the MCU was already establishing that something in Bruce's DNA when affected by gamma radiation doesn't kill him but alters his DNA and only comes to the surface as hulk when he's scared , mad or even sad Also in the comics Emil Blonksy , Betty Ross, her father and Rick Jones have the same genetic abnormality
@@saftpackerlBruce had no agency. He was saving Rick Jones. Or the lab technician in the movie. It was an act of sacrifice. Jen just got blood splashed on her, and as usual, Bruce takes all the blame on himself, though it wasn't his fault
I've been in a small dilema about this show since I really don't like it (at least as far as it goes and what I've seen), but for reasons that have nothing to do with ''bad because woke''. I feel like the writers really don't understand how comedy works. It's not just to say and do funny things every now and then, it's rather about delivery, build-up, timing and to deal with both the drama and the comedy without being anticlimactic. She-Hulk's classic breaking of the forth wall has been used mostly only to make the character say these meta jokes, what she believes the audience thinks, so it ends up being frustrating and uncreative given the immense possibilities that the comics have aready explored. On the other hand, it really looks like a very superficial adaptation, as if instead of exploring the material they decided to watch a couple of YT videos about the character and called it a day, so my biggest problem with Jennifer Walters it that she has not proven to be that good of a lawyer in the first place, and it really shows when this other more interesting lawyer appears with actual preparation and sense of anticipation to help with her case. I know it doesn't have to be like the comics and tha they have creative freedom, but given Byrne's awesome run with the character, as well as the work of other great creator, it's hard not to look at what could've been. Also, it's one of the longest MCU miniseries, yet it keeps that awful ''leave everyting to the last episodes'' tradition.
I don’t personally agree with all of these points, but they’re all totally valid opinions - let’s just say if TCD’s video had been remotely like your comment, I’d never have felt the need to make a response!
@@PillarofGarbage Thanks, great video as always. I have to say that I liked the first episode. I mean, the infamous ''infinitely more than you'' is pretty much a ''you were saying?'' type of joke, but memes cut the part when she transforms immediately after due to her lack of control.
@@anderurteaga3707 Show supporters would say her transforming back immediately after proves her point - I would say her stopping herself from attacking the men at the bar would have shown the point better and made her more sympathetic when she "Infinitely More" 's Bruce as she would have already SHOWN that to the audience - and possibly Bruce - rather than having Bruce tackle her.
I stopped watching CDs videos a while back because of his pattern of using woke to dismiss characters based on their race and/or gender. I have no problem in the critique of cheap exploitation and tokenism and obvious insincerity when studios want to appear inclusive and when they’re not. But CDs criticism isn’t about the insincerity or that inclusion could be done better but about the fact inclusion exists to begin with and would rather it didn’t through gaslighting, dog whistles and micro aggressions.
@@blurryperson2685 yep he does that in all of his videos if it doesn't have a white masculine guy as the main protagonist It's automatically a piece of shit Which I get hating on wokeness but to make it a point in every video, CD just repeats the same thing but with different words and it's honestly just a waste of my time The only good video he's done recently was him praising Stranger Things season 4 for actually fixing the problems in season 3
I have to defend him, cause that's not true and it's too much, just making a man sound racist. He doesn't mind inclusion, he minds when a show or a movie has inclusion, but lacks quality writing. He's just annoyed that in art someone would prioritise inclusion over art. He loved Arcane for example
I feel like the Critical Drinking would be one of those guys who, if they are a writer, make sure to make mention of a woman's chest any time she'd mentioned. You know those guys, 'her bosoms heaved excitedly' and so on. But then, that's just me using bias to view him.
Well lucky for you he is a WRiTeR. He's got a series of books the "Ryan Drake" series. His actual name is Will Jordan. I've never personally read them but I've been meaning to look into them since he seems to think that because he's written that series he's got higher credentials to critique things than his plebeian detractors.
TCD is one of those types of critics where they think they know how a film works and how it should works because they either watched a lot of behind the scenes content, read a few subjective books about the pretentious artistry of filmmaking or have made a “student film” using only the basics of filmmaking and claim that it’s just as good as a big budget block buster movie! That kind of person! I’ve seen them many times and they are the worst kinds of critics!
@@gandyaao260 I looked up the books on Goodreads and one of the reviewers called his main woman character a Mary Sue. I’m sure you can appreciate the irony in that.
Lol he is actually a writer. But a lot of people are writers. Doesn't make anyone more qualified to criticize something than anyone else. Which means he can criticize things to his hearts desire. And he must be doing something right because when someone has this many haters on TH-cam, it usually means they have millions of fans. So, go criticize to your hearts content and see how many followers you can get. It won't make your criticisms any more or less valuable than his. Almost like it's asinine to criticize others for criticizing art
26:50 I wouldn't even say its a power fantasy about putting "asshole men in their place" the focus of the feeling isn't the men threatening her, it's her being able to feel protected on her lonesome, that's why the "my boyfriend is coming" line is there, which shows how much more powerful that fantasy is, its not "teach a lesson to the bully" it's "I can walk around without the fear of dying"
The problem with alot of criticism of late. Is people criticising something because it isn't what they expected it to be. Critical Drinker is the worst for this. 'The imaged alternative' as Pillar said.
That's destructive criticism right there. Constructive criticism would have been better, but we're on the internet so, that's not happening. The guy who does these critiques, the critical drinker, is a misogynistic, bigoted moron.
same here. i watched his vid on ms marvel cause it was recommended to me and i was like…woah he’s judging the whole show by the trailer and talking about her being “cocky” …which isn’t her character at all? seems like he just makes up excuses to be prejudiced lol
@@zachplummer625 No offense but no shit sherlock, it says "don't recommend", so it won't appear in the recommendation tab i.e the home screen, but it'll appear in searches. Though it's stupid from youtube's part, if someone doesn't want to see videos from a channel anymore it should be like blocking an account and never seeing it again until you un"don't recommend".
Yeah, well done. I used to watch Drinker in his early days…then things started to get a little bit fishy. He’s sadly little more than a culture war profiteer now. I suspect he doesn’t really care about any of that crap but is glad to cash in on people’s manufactured outrage. Or maybe he does care and is just a tiny bit more careful about it - either way it doesn’t help anyone but himself.
Agreed. I first saw his videos about 4 years ago, and I found his slams over plot points amusing. Over the last couple years, however, he's gone from slamming laughable flaws in a movie to whining about what he sees as affronts to his political biases in movies.
Yup, I also watched a couple of his videos years ago and mostly enjoyed them. That's why it was so disappointing to watch him slide into a full-on culture warrior appealing to incels.
I guess I missed his early days because almost every video I’ve ever heard from him was him whining about “woke” like Ron DeSantis whining about the “woke” 800 times per minute.
Spot on, and to further hammer home this point, if you happen to stumble into the TCD subreddit, it's choc-full of alt-right/far-right rhetoric as that's the audience that he has curated and now has to pander to to keep the checks coming in. So now his critiques always have to be filtered through the lens of "woke is taking over hollywood', "feminism bad and unnecessary".
I watched Critical Drinker's "modern movies are written by children" or some such nonsense and I'm glad that was the first one because it showed me he had nothing of value to offer.
The value of a person's offering is determined by it's success in being consumed by an audience, particularly on the internet. You'd have to admit that on that scale, what he has to offer is vastly more valuable than what you or I have to offer
@@iamyouarei9497 I mean, not really? For instance, we know for a fact that consumption on youtube is influenced heavily by playing to the algorithm even before the actual substance of a video begins to play. This isn't even up for debate, it's well documented and acknowledged by everyone from audiences to youtubers to Google corporate. Critical drinker's success, for what it is, is simply opportunity, and staying within the algorithmic brackets for the demographic that he draws on for views.
@@egglordsasuke8532tbh, thats better than having your opinion determined by a youtuber, make your own opinion for once, i tried Fallout 3 when the internet hated on it, and i loved the game, because its my own opinion. the internet can hate it all it wants, i want to see them make their own opinion for once.
i was a fan of critical drinker's humor but his anti-feminism eclipsed his critical thinking some time ago. it was always there but just on simmer. Tatiana Maslany in Orphan Black was genius acting and IMHO this Hulk show is a lower standard for her and won't help her career in such a dramatic fashion as brilliantly playing 13 different people in one TV series (Orphan Black, it's amazing). This is a zoning out show that has no deep ethical dilemna to unpack. But for the diddling blinker: misogyny-by-default is a very lazy s4it-take.
@@suburbantimewaster9620 I mean, people wildly overestimate the clout that the vast majority of actors and actresses wield in hollywood. Even if you're successful it can be a very feast or famine profession. In that environment a role that keeps your name in the spotlight is worth taking a chance on if there's nothing else currently coming up.
Same here. I unsubbed ages ago cos I got sick of his conspiracies and complaints about "the woke agenda" in place of the actual problems with the films.
The Critical Drinker strikes me as a guy who was scorned by the system. Cause if you read his books his female characters run into the same issues he slams Hollywood for. He should change his name to the Hypocritical Drinker. At one point he was genuinely entertaining and insightful, but now his ideology is ruining his content. Now he sounds like every other reactionary dude on TH-cam. Complaining without adding anything new to the craft
For some, his content grates at their political investment. But his astounding growth in views and subscribers tells the story. As all successful content creators, he's honed his channel to what appeals to the majority. Appealing to the minority doesn't work in content creation if you don't want to need a day job.
@iamyouarei9497 D*mn I actually moved on and forgot about him until now. There are so many content creators they give better reviews and analysis out there and they never go political. It's exhausting to hear people's ideology injected into their content. It's just as annoying as when studios do it with their films, but If people like that sort of thing power to them
@@iamyouarei9497 Except 'majority' is meaningless when content is served up algorithmically. You're not targeting broad appeal to be seen by the masses on limited broadcast bandwidth, you're targeting a tailored audience who is already prepped to agree with you. Like yeah, I think the Drinker is successful in his niche but his subscriber numbers are 'youtuber who found his audience' numbers, and that's about it. I mean, for Goodness sake, channels on topics as uninteresting to the general public as woodworking and suburban design are within spitting distance of his numbers.
She hulk had the unfortunate timing of coming out during a time when the MCU burnout seems to have reached its peak, which draws a lot of attention to a particularly common and contentious writing style and the abuse the people at the special effects department go through.
It was bound to happen inevitably. I say just smile that it happened if you enjoyed it or if not be glad that it's probably going to slowly deflate from here on out. The Superhero genre might not be the "it" thing for decades to come but until humanity itself burns out I doubt it'll ever disappear completely even if it changes drastically in presentation.
@@scratch2086 I really don't think the super hero genre as a whole is hurting though. Look at The Boys or The Batman. These projects are very popular, despite one being a dark comedy and the other being a really grim dark take. It's the MCU formula that has gotten stale for people.
@@zipzzo Somewhat agree but it's also the fact that the MCU is in a position to cater to everyone instead of one demographic. Certain things won't be for everyone
I used to be a fan of Drinker, but he declined hard and fast. He used to be “I love the old movies like Rambo and Terminator because it had a strong guy and great action and no current politics” and I could nod and be like “I get it.” But now he’s so bitter and treats every bad film like it pointed at directly at the screen and threatened to shoot his dog because he’s a terrible, filthy man. He always assumes the worst, which gives him a really negative bias. If he thinks he’ll like the movie, he’ll like it. If he thinks it’s going to be feminist slop, he’ll perceive it that way and hate the movie. He sees a show was written by a woman, and assumes the show will be garbage because of this. Which is kind of a HUGE red flag. “Woman writer = Bad movie every time without fail” is not at all a mindset someone calling themself a critic should have. I didn’t like She-Hulk for a number of reasons. I didn’t expect it to be amazing, but I didn’t expect it to be feminist trash that belittles men and glorifies pronouns and convinces kids to take HRT and blah blah blah.. like Drinker seemingly did. It was a 4/10 show that did nothing particularly new or interesting and wasn’t particularly entertaining (to me). But that’s it. She-Hulk’s only sin was being kinda mid, it didn’t take his dog out back to be shot nor did it steal his car or burn down his house. But it was written by a woman, so that means he’s a victim of modern Hollywood and its hatred of men or whatever.
Good on you for including the audio of him saying his points so no one accuses you of not understanding his point. Also really enjoyed the video, you got me through a slow day at work lol
Would have included more but didn’t want this to tip over to the point where anyone could claim I’m infringing on his copyright (it’s transparently fair use, but some TCD fans would probably be eager to try and get it blocked anyway) Did my best to condense all the relevant context and get it in though, think I managed that fine
I think I’ve heard like half of one of his videos and it seems like he’s just another guy with opinions and none of them are insightful, original, or creative. I imagine he’s just the fucking worst.
The Critical Drunk is also the guy who utterly misconstrued the messages from "Midsommar" as "woman good, man bad, Hollywood woke". He'd be the last inanimate object from which I'd seek advice on writing. His alcoholism must have turned his brain into mush, because he's just that stupid.
"His alcoholism must have turned his brain into mush, because he's just that stupid." Unfortunately, Mr. Will Jordan (aka 'The Critical Drinker') must be an extremely high-functioning alcoholic with a LOT of charisma otherwise, because he's apparently able to fool his genuinely impressive 1.77 million (current number as of this comment's posting) subscribers.
@@erichanson3369 It's not his "charisma" that got him attention. He just peddles to the right (heh) crowd with the talking points they want to hear. The exact same as every other right-wing culture warrior.
When one character gives encouragement to another character - that shows the character being encouraged IS vulnerable and relatable because it shows that they, like everyone, NEEDS encouragement - especially right before they begin a major plan they've been working on really hard.
@@ContranianCommando He was technically "right," but the point this video makes is that he took a lazy and st*pid approach to sh*tting on this sh*t show. His entire shtick has become "does my audience consider this woke?" and then he goes from there. It's juvenile and frustrating.
It wasn’t BS at all. You just can’t tell the difference between someone who is criticizing a show for genuine reasons and someone who you just hate for the sake of hating them.
This is a valid critique video. I like how you used clips and rationally broke down his points instead of just shitting on him. People who try to do the same fall into the trap of just tearing someone apart because they don’t agree and it just ends up making most reasonable film fans look bad.
Yes I agree the video was effectively critical without being personal, but I also enjoyed that they sat back and watched him shit himself projecting his exact issues on to the writers of the show.
The only thing that bothers me is that when Jen says she manages her anger way more than Bruce because she’s a woman, that would make sense if she were talking to literally any other man than Bruce Banner. Like I understand they’re making a gendered point there but Bruce has had one of the most tortured lives of any superhero and it’s kinda ridiculous to say every single woman has it worse than Bruce specifically. I understand that women on average have it worse than men, but Jen is an otherwise completely normal wealthy white lady from California and Bruce has spent the last 15 years of his life being hunted by the government, being trapped on an alien world, hiding out in third world countries, all while having to deal with the fact that if any of those situations bothered him he’d turn into an unstoppable nearly-mindless beast. Hell, when he was trapped in space he didn’t even have control of his own body. So the comparison between the two of their experiences having anything to do with gender is just ridiculous to me considering all their other extenuating circumstances.
I don't think that's what scene is trying to say It closer to when you became the Hulk you needed to learn to controll your anger because now you have a reason too if you don't you become the Hulk and we do see him learning to control his anger Jen needed to control her anger this entire time she lists off things that bother her make her angry It's not a my life is worse than yours thing
@@WatsonMainApex it still doesn't make sense for her to say she does it better than him, it's simply not true. The guy attempted suicided for fucks sake.
@@WatsonMainApex it kinda is a my life is worse than yours thing though because her entire point is that she has more practice controlling her anger than Bruce, which is a ridiculous notion because of what he's been through.
Are you open to the possibility that maybe that scene is showing you that Jen is wrong there? She doesn't have better control than Bruce, which the show shows you as she Hulks out in that and other scenes, in this and subsequent episodes, while Bruce is always in control of his anger. Do far, even Blonsky is shown to be more in control than her. So, idk, maybe what she says during an angry outburst isn't supposed to be taken as some sort of thesis of the episode and the show?
It’s called Direct Characterization and indirect characterization. Per my English teacher. I think this show does have a lot more direct characterization, but I think that’s kinda normal for a sitcom.
No yeah sitcoms get by mostly with having recognizable and outspoken personalities. Look at friends, HIMYM, new girl, the office, Seinfeld, everybody loves Raymond, everybody hates Chris, that 70's show, 30 rock, All from different times and from completely different people yet all try to make characters that are easy to pick up and at least somewhat understand what their deal is
I don't know why he watched it. Of course that's what the show was going to deal with. That's all these female superhero shows/movies do. That's pretty much the only message women have a lot of the time. Bruce has gone through much, much worse, but women don't feel that way. Same thing goes with men, vice versa. He shouldn't have watched it.
@@welldave8598 Maybe so. It's almost like he secretly likes it but doesn't want to accept it. I didn't watch She Hulk because I knew, as a dude, I wouldn't be able to relate to it. But I'm fine with having female centered movies. I just don't watch them. It's bizarre behavior.
@@theofficialvernetheturtley338 I sincerely don't understand what's so bizarre about watching something with an unrelatable protagonist? I can't relate to most male protagonists in movies but the stories teach you how to empathize with them anyway? Because they're people, and that's what stories do. Like, how are you supposed to learn about different types of people and their struggles if you don't consume stories about them? If you don't listen to their stories? Stories teach you how to empathize and relate to others and their lives, they allow you to vicariously experience a life you've never lived. Is that not incredible? Don't you wonder about what women are like? How they talk to each other, how they support each other, how they navigate their lives? Their struggles and their strengths? I've heard so many men complain about the "inscrutable minds of women" and I've never understood it. They're just people! Do these guys understand what goes on in the minds of all men? I highly doubt it. I'm not saying watch She-Hulk---I haven't myself, and I have no opinion on it---but stories about women by women, yes. Women have enjoyed stories about and by men for forever, it's about time they get to tell their own. And this expands into other territories as well, like, eg. watching foreign films. Anyway, I want to add that I'm not attacking you or anything. I was just struck by the bizarre nature of your comment and wanted to share my thoughts in this public space I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I apologize that it's a little unpolished (and that it's responding to a comment you made an entire year ago) but it's 1AM and I'm actually supposed to be sleeping lol
@@TheRenegadeMonk OP's point is that they are doing something so bad that it's almost a cliche to show that someone is bad, therefore the statement by TCD that "they didn't do anything all that bad" is ludicrious
Thank you for providing a counter argument and criticism to his video. I think it's healthy for passionate TH-camrs to have different opinions and think of things the other wouldn't (however right or wrong), and it's healthy for us, the viewers to hear multiple different views and shape nuanced, 3-dimensional understanding in our heads
this is exactly why I can't trust any reviewer who uses the word woke regularly in their vocabulary. It just tells me they have a biased worldview and can't view situations free of said bias.
The negativity surrounding the choice of the last Doctor before the episodes were even produced really hurt my enjoyment of her first season. I stopped watching channels that looked hyperbolically negative from then on and was able to enjoy that season a lot more a year later. It’s like the toxicity seeps into your subconscious and poisons the well. And it seems a certain segment of society is perennially toxic nowadays. It got so bad that for a number of years I pretty much stopped saying I was a fan of things. I was actually enjoying the things I liked. Apparently being a fan meant hating every new thing and declaring it dead. And I just facepalm any time I hear someone complaining that Star Trek has suddenly become woke. It was probably one of the most “woke” shows on TV when it aired the first episode. I don’t get how they don’t know that.
@@zemoxian you should probably keep not calling yourself a fan of anything as you clearly don’t seem to understand most of the things you say you’re a fan of.
Unless its good. Like andor. A lot of people went into andor expecting another shit show and got positivley aurprised to the point there are hindreds of videos talking about how good it is…
I think in the MCU, Banner knowing what he knows would never deliberately give his blood to anyone, he knows how dangerous it can be. So I'm fine with this scene, happening by accident.
People also forget Carol blows up a jukebox just to prove her point to fury. Also as an aside, am I the only one who got that Carol being told she was too "emotional" when she clearly WASN'T was a clear indication of the Gas Lighting the Kree were doing?
A few ppl, mostly women, used that scene as an example on the manipulation she ensured in their response/review videos back when the movie came out. Good on you for seeing it though!
Same for her being egotistical at points. She's coming from a culture that told her she is superior to everyone else in the galaxy, of course she's gonna act that way. Her entire arc was her learning that acting that way is wrong. But somehow a lot of people left the movie thinking the theme was that's how people should act and that Carol (and by extension Brie) was good because she was so narcissistic Edit: I just got to the part of the video where TSD says a lot of the same stuff I said, but I think he said it better
I remember watching Critical Drinker’s video about The Last Jedi when he compared it to Tremors and thinking “wow, that was a sick burn.” He is occasionally capable of positive reviews like with Everything, Everywhere, All at Once and The Whale. There is some pretty blatant misogyny there sometimes and some racism. Like he did make some good critiques about Rings of Power, but then had to go off on diversity in the casting. The actors weren’t the problem with the show (there was too much set up with too little or very weak payoff. His critique of season 3 of Stranger Things really had misogyny. Personally, I felt that season 3 is the weakest because it focuses more on tropes like malls and evil Russians as well as generic relationship drama rather than building on the previous two seasons, therefore there was crapping on previous character growth and lots of characters felt jarring because they lost previous emotional maturity. Anyway Critical Drinker got triggered because Robin was smarter than Steve. The previous two seasons showed that Steve wasn’t a great student. Let’s ignore the fact that Dustin is also smarter than Steve and Steve isn’t portrayed as useless. He figured out that the signal was coming from the mall because he recognized the music. But oh, no a girl who was also a lesbian had more book smarts, so obviously it’s part of the woke agenda. Then, he, like so many accused Max of sabotaging Mike and El. Let’s ignore the fact that Mike was being obsessed and possessive of El, as was Hopper because they were both insecure. Let’s ignore the fact that Hopper made Mike lie to El then obnoxiously celebrated when she was upset. Let’s ignore that despite the fact that Mike was an absolute jerk to Max when she was new in town, Max didn’t say anything bad about him or their relationship until El went to her upset. Nope, Mike’s relationship troubles were all Max’s fault and he and Hopper aren’t in any way responsible for their own crappy behavior. Anyway, I enjoyed She Hulk.
About his restructuring of the origin, the thing is, that's her origin in the comics, and it was Bruce who had the agency there. If they did that here, it also becomes Bruce's fault that she's she hulk, where in the show, they frame the whole thing as an accident.
It doesn't make sense in the MCU either. In the comic Bruce had no idea he was gonna give Jen powers, he barely understood his condition; in the MCU he has studied himself, he'd known better than to give blood to people, it had to change
@@akwilson1676 Yeah but not for Jen. It's all about Bruce in that scenario. Bruce's guilt for making Jen a Hulk was something that came much later than her origin in the comics.
@@rikudoubapeck It's pretty much the same for Jen either way cause she doesn't have a say in this. Still I prefer the guilt trip more than just spilling his blood on her arms that's just boring.
I'm from the future where I've just finished your Glass Onion video and wanted to see some of your other takes before subbing. This is the video that's done it for me. I'm going to watch the Toxic one next but this video is the sort of coherent and intelligent media criticism I need more of in my life.
Now admittedly, I do have my own problems with She-Hulk- probably biased, as I've never been much of a fan of the character anyway, but I also found it somewhat tonally weird for where the MCU was at that point. I also definitely prefer the comic explanations for some things, like why Bruce's hulk is a separate entity and Jen's isn't. However, Critical Drinker's review feels like he didn't pay attention to the show at ALL, or like he watched it on fast-forward. Most of his points are not good points. If you don't want to watch a show, that's fine, don't watch it. But if you're going to watch something to review it, I expect you to actually take note of what is going on.
When CD says those guys didn't do anything all that bad, and that they were harassing her, that's him admitting he thinks harassing women is just fine. It's not something he's ever had to deal with, so it can't possibly be an actual problem. It's okay that women should make up some lie about a boyfriend coming to pick them up, just so they wouldn't get assaulted. At least in this instance, because I'd bet money that there are other times when he'd berate women for lying and being untrusting towards men.
No I think the writing for episode one is far worst than anything anyone could make, critical drinkers story is the one from the comics and get this comics book fans love. There’s a reason She-Hulk tanked. It’s because of bad writing
THANK YOU for sharing this!!! It's becoming harder and harder to avoid alt-right & alt-lite geek TH-camrs (unless they put something obvious in their titles, like calling anything "woke"). I'd love to have a straight up list of all of them so when I come across a new channel I could just check it and not have to be subjected to a bunch of misogyny and hatred. (I get enough of that just existing in the world as a female game dev.) At least now I know to steer clear of this guy and that "geek + gamer" channel.
I find this is the big issue with 'critique' videos like The Critical Drinker, he doesn't need to do any analysis he needs to say bad things about the bad woke show the right crowd hates right now and get his youtube views. It's low effort because it was never meant to be anything else. Make a lazy CinemaSins style video pretending to be serious that takes maybe an hour than make a new one tomorrow about the next chud target. Profit.
Critical drinker isn't a critique though. He's a movie reviewer, he puts out a video on recent stuff and people who have movie/show tastes that allign with his trust his recommendations. He doesn't do any actual analysis work because that's not his job. He doesn't make critiques, he doesn't make analysis, he doesn't make retrospectives, he just makes first impressions A.K.A reviews. Now do I agree with him? It depends. Does he present his work like he should? Fuck no and he's not the only one, plenty of reviewers act like they do analysis/critique work when that is neither their job nor would they be very good at it if it was.
You have no idea how much I appreciate your input. You consistently call out behaviors/attitudes that normalize ignoring the voices of traditionally underrepresented groups. As someone who loves superheroes and Star wars it's refreshing knowing that the community does have people that think outside of the hateful bubble.
I don't agree in every way but you took a few things he said out of context. He is not saying that her anger is not valid, he is saying that she does not control her anger like she is saying she does. She almost kills those guys for catcalling her.
@@LeoBladini the show never even hints that what she does is wrong and repeatedly affirms that she's amazing just the way she is with no improvement. In other words you are making excuses for the writers. On accident or on purpose.
@@samuelspringer8236 i thought it was obvious. i mean, she did said "Bruce was wrong, and I was right, and i'll never have to be a Hulk" then the next scene is literally she Hulking out. kind of a metaphor to the fact that she's not always right
The issue is execution. It always is. They're trying to relate that Jen isn't Bruce, and so things won't be the same for her as for him, but in execution it only relates to most that she's better than him, not because she's different, but because she's a woman. That's the problem with this scene, primarily. The other text/subtext is good, and the show is pretty decent, but this problem exists in every episode. Men are perpetually depicted in rather unsavory ways that simply aren't realistic, they're either sleezy, dumb and self absorbed, or... That thing they turned Mr. Immortal into... and especially both of the contrived bar scenes. Nikki is brilliant though, I love her. Also let's not forget that a large portion of this show doesn't even believe in itself. Very little lawyering happens, but she constantly reminds you it's a fun lawyer show, after Bruce, we get Wong twice, and here recently a tease of DareDevil, and the mandatory wedding episode, it feels like they're just doing girl things because Jen is a girl, and then using cameos and teasers to carry itself as a show. Everything is about her being a her. The character and source material is so much more than that, so why is this all we get? Where's her SMASHING?!?! All we get is her... smashing... oh, and yet another example, this man is then portrayed as shallow and not into her, and if that wasn't enough, enter Josh.
She-Hulk was a situation where I nearly had something I quite like ruined by the internet. My viewing experience of the most recent episode was tainted by thoughts about what scenes other people would have issues with, stuff that normally wouldn’t bother me at all. I couldn’t help but think there was something wrong with me, that I liked something that everyone agrees is objectively wrong. It was getting to the point that I was considering quitting the show, not because I didn’t like the show itself, but because I didn’t enjoy the viewing experience. But then Nando V Movies put out a video last week and now with this video, seeing two people who’s opinions I really respect telling me that the hate for She-Hulk isn’t unanimous, has made me feel so much better
Honestly both can be right, with their respective biases and all I don't know if She-Hulk is actually "dangerous" like Mulan 2020 That one apparently teaches your daughter the wrong lesson "You are special and don't need to put any effort to succeed"
Someone said on Twitter that She-Hulk is unique in that she’s a woman character who is in on the joke of the male gaze and I haven’t stopped thinking about it
I can tell if it bad criticism by seeing if they blame something is “woke” inspired by something people are outraged by something else or China this is why I created the list.
I think Critical Drinker’s Critical mistake is looking at it under a tinted set of glasses. However I think you’re kinda doing the same thing to him, along with the series itself. You’re basically saying that “it’s subjective, but also you’re wrong.” You’ve also said you’re own feelings on The drinker and his intentions were likely negative in one of the replies in this comment section. As for the infamous scene where She hulk talks down to Bruce, the problem is the key words “infinitely more than you.” This isn’t just saying she has it different, she’s straight up claiming she’s superior, so even if it isn’t “feminist propaganda” or whatever the hell the alt right nuts call it, it’s still a dick move. Also subverting expectations doesn’t always equal good. It can and has been fucked up. Also almost the entire third of this video equates to the whole “Sorry incels, this show isn’t for you” picture they posted. Since is a sitcom, you never said why it specifically works as one. In fact you haven’t really talked about the comedy much here. Also those personal jabs at him for taking personal jabs at the show’s creators just proves my point in the first paragraph even more. Even if you do make a lot of good points, you’re still hurting your own argument. Also Im not even right wing, I have a lot of progressive opinions so I’m not even being entirely politically motivated here. I just vehemently despise hypocrisy. I’ll wait for if and how The drinker responds to expand on my opinion more. He might do the same thing, idk.
Agreed, the "infinitely more than you" line along with her delivery made her character instantly unlikeable to me and undermined her point of how awesome she is at controlling her anger
But you're doing the exact same thing PoG accuses TCD of doing: taking small moments out of context as proof of poor writing. Jen's outburst is just that: an outburst. Yes she has an overall point of facing harassment and being looked down upon as a woman in the corporate world. But at this point she's also angry and frustrated because she's been thrust into a completely unwanted situation, and may potentially lose the one thing she truly loves doing in her job. She is being mean AND making a legitimate point about what makes her different from Bruce. Also, PoG isn't obligated to talk about why She-Hulk works as a sitcom or why it's a good show because that isn't the thesis of this video. This is a critique of TCD's She-Hulk video, so he's allowed to attack the video and TCD's points in the same manner. I'm not even sure how you got "Sorry incels, this show isn't for you" from this video (which by the way, should not be a controversial statement to make). PoG's entire point of this video is that TCD isn't good at critique, writing and analysis because he cannot understand proper context of a scene and his preconceived notions about She-Hulk affected his ability to be good at those things.
Here's HOPING he has more than petulance!! "Nobidy liked her" - well I liked her She's an unsympathetic character - well SIMPathised with her Some guys talk to Jen SEE, SHE WAS SEXUALLY HARRASSED BUT CONTROLLED HER... oh wait, Hulk stopped her from murdering them Beta perves and their fetish for giant green women...
@@kelechiihebuzor9055 SHE SUCKS ZT HER JOB!! And hates doing it. Unless she can use it to dismiss a guy chatting her up in a bar "It's so hard dating in your 30s" WHAT GREAT LIFE WHERE?!!
One thing I wanna see is some villains pose a large threat to jen not like the wrecking crew or titania but someone who pushes her to her limit like alien Nackle and black king from ultraman ace or green goblin
@@Theokal3 nothing much tbh. Josh who was introduce ep 6 was a bad guy (what a surprise! When men r all portray as bad/dumb) shows a video abt jen in gala. And daredevil fighting jen and crooks and they banged.
I think that's gonna be saved for her movie appearances. This tv show is just a little intro to her origins, her greatest highlights will happen on the big screen.
@@tasha7726 her dad is the only one that's portrayed as nice and not dumb (though calling her transformation a green suit is kinda) This comment was before daredevil came out and there's no way daredevil wld do walk of shame in the morning if his smart cause he has a lot of enemies. But he was written as smarter than jenn so that's a plus. Her boss was portrayed as bad (not in the Villian sense) like wanting to listen to her and etc. Wong 100% yes. Too many things wrong with his character. Showing up in court when his a wanted men cause he helped abomination escaped once. Going to she hulk for help to deal with demons and for lawsuit about magical laws that does not exist etc. Bruce potrayer was bad, like having him admit jenn is right or jenn is better (which she's not). And also he suppose to be smart (not just smart but few smartest ppl in marvel) so he shld have done the blood test with his relative long ago. Not idea who pug is.cant be bother to rmb.
So I think it's fine to disagree with Drinker, I don't think he's the bible on cinema opinions but I really disagree with the method with which you grounded *your* argument in. A lot of your points are based on the idea that drinker "missed" critical (huehue) aspects of the episode, or that he's criticizing things based on a preconceived notion of a show that "doesn't exist" (your words). The fact of the matter is She-Hulk has existed for a long time in another form of media, and presumably this show is meant to cater to fans of that character or just Marvel comics in general. It is *impossible* to separate the source material from this show, and the discrepancy between this show and the comics is incredibly noticeable, they are inextricably linked, and I think Drinker is critiquing the show from that perspective, which is demonstrated by him using the original She Hulk origin as his proposed alternative to what the show did. It was simply better writing to have kept it to the source material, which is the criticism in and of itself. You say "he's only seen one episode!", as if this show birthed She-Hulk, and in my opinion, that seems like a very unnecessary level of blind-eye-syndrome or handwaving. Yes, it may be ep1 of the MCU version of she hulk, but this is a character with an extensive history that the show is ideally attempting to live up to and respect. Most criticism I've seen about this show is often contrasting it's failures against the comics version. Your interpretation is fine as a person who maybe has 0 exposure to any other version of she hulk, but please recognize that your critique of other criticisms can feel a bit surface level as a result.
@@angryhead7728 fuck no, every media should be able to stand on it's own. Just because it's an adaptation doesn't mean it should automatically get a pass or be criticised to pieces based on how much it co-relates to the source material. Judge the show based on it's own merits. It's how sane folks consume art but i wouldn't expect misogynistic drinker apologists to know that.
@@PillarofGarbage it's still her character's origin and it's not just some hypothetical that Drinker pulled out of his ass. Whether it's a worse fit is subjective (oh by the way you did that thing Drinker did where you act like your thoughts and feelings about something are gospel) and I'm sure they could've worked the scene so that it fit the show while staying faithful to the comics. Hell if they wanted to stick with Jen coming to terms with her new powers they could've added a layer of resentment to Bruce because he forced this on her and now she's dealing with these powers that she never wanted being forced on her by her cousin. It's a legitimate criticism that the show made such a drastic deviation from the comics regarding a character's origin. It'd be like if Aunt May were the one to die instead of Uncle Ben. Sure functionality the story is the same but it's an unnecessary deviation that a lot of people would reasonably take issue with
It's pretty telling that TCD thinks rebuffing sexual harassment like it's become a habit is equivalent to that sexual harassment no longer being a problem.
Im pretty sure if in every male lead movie or tv show, they portrayed women as being gold diggers or playing the victim card to dodge accountability, it would get frustrating to a lot of people and they would call it out.
I used to be a huge fan of Drinker, but eventually, I realized every "review" was just seeking out things to interpret in the worst way & caught on to the formula. I still watched for a while, but everything became "Confirm My Biases - The Video!" and I had to stop.
To me, what makes a character hyping up another character as an example of bad writing is when we don't actually get to see those qualities being displayed or in some cases, subverted. For the latter this is mainly in the case of an antagonist. Like Gaston in Disneys Beauty and the Beast. His sidekick hypes him up to be this gigachad of a dude. This, 'alpha male' per say. But those qualities are actually toxic. Even in the animated film that was the point of the Gaston song scene. In truth Gaston was a beast on the inside, while the actual Beast was only one on the outside. Which is why Belle fell in love with the Beast and not Gaston. Meanwhile I would find a case of Ayra hyping up her sister Sansa in season 7 of GoT to be a bit lackluster. While it does show that Ayra has come around to respect and admire her older sister, which is a big contrast to their relationship at the start of the show. We don't really get to see Sansa perform to those standards afterwards. Most of Sansa's, Ayras and Bran's scheming behind Littlefinger happens offscreen. Now I haven't watched She-Hulk yet, I might get around to it at some point so I can't judge the show to those standards.
Another point you missed, it's still bad if a character is hyped up and does display the hyped up traits, but only due to the ineptitude of the script. IE, Jenn is hyped up as a great lawyer, but only performs great lawyer feats in the show because the writers know absolutely fuck all about law. She demonstrates the hyped up traits, but because those traits are only successfully implemented through the script bending beyond all logic and reason, it's shallow and lazy.
the problem with the episode is that she hulk never has any internal struggle that is clearly shown in the performance. the show doesn’t give her the time to give the audience a nuanced look into how she feels or how she comes to the conclusions she does. instead we get pulled along from event to event as the writers have predetermined. there’s nothing wrong with the character choices she makes like CD claims - really the problem is that we don’t see the progression to why the choices are made.
I think that's because this current episode 1 wasn't intended to be the first episode originally, but later on in the show. I guess they made it the first episode so her growth through the show is more linear, and because the final two episodes directly call back to mistakes she made in this episode. But I agree, I felt like as a stand-alone episode it wasn't a good intro to her character, it doesn't represent well the emotional depth she gets in the rest of the show - which I'm glad I stuck around for despite ep 1 not resonating with me. I hope actual sincere critiques of the show come out more so people will actually give the show an honest chance, not just judge the whole over a single scheduling issue.
She literally states out loud that the internal struggle of the show is her desire to succeed and be taken seriously as a trial lawyer, the thing she burned all that money on to get a law degree for, verses her new responsibilities as a powered individual, the thing that happened to her by accident and threw all her plans and part of her life out the window. It's fairly obvious. More people would see it if media literacy wasn't dead.
@@TheBusbyBabes Personal Life & Life Goals the character set for themselves vs. the unbearable weight of responsibility that comes with unexpected power. It's literally the exact same internal struggle as Spiderman. The only difference is that where Peter Parker just wants to bang pretty girls, but can't because great responsibility; Jen Walters wants people to take her seriously as a person, but can't because giant green rage monster/famous cousin.
@@CitanulsPumpkin damn wish my entire life struggle was feeling insecure about being a female lawyer making $200k a year and having the ability to turn into an indestructible 7 foot tall super hero. It must be horrible for her 🥺 saying someone who owns a button that can transform themself into a god with zero consequences but only cares about their human lawyer job is incredibly deep and good writing when it’s laughable.
So as someone who doesn't often watch Drinker, can someone ask me why he talks that way? I mean, this feels like a personal attack, but this video reminded me of why I gave up trying to listen to him, he puts this weird pressure on the last word of every sentence that just feels really... Articifical. Like he's trying to sound tougher and more firm and serious than he is, or something.
The part where Loki tells Sylvie how great she is isn't just about Loki's character development, it's about showing Sylvie a view of herself from the eyes of someone else who admires her, when she's never admired herself. It's a moment of growth for both Loki and Sylvie because Sylvie begins to realise she's not the irredeemable person she always believed she was.
Talking about the training scene: From what I gathered, Bruce is trying to demonstrate to Jen how to restrain one's self when in Hulk form. How easy it is to throw boulders, create shockwaves, make tremors; how simple it is to be destructive as the Hulk, something Bruce has worried about since the first Avengers movie, and I'm sure he's concerned about all the time. Jen seems to be more interested in seeing what she is now physically capable of in this new form. And that's understandable; I'm sure any of us would wanna test our limits if we were granted new abilities. Hell, it's already a pretty common trope in fictional media to have some sort of montage of the protagonist jumping over 5 story buildings or running down the street at 100 mph. My point is, the training scene, and even the entire Mexico part of the episode, isn't supposed to be seen as a "who's better than who, men or women" deal like weird man-children think it is; it's supposed to show the level of restraint Bruce takes when navigating the world as the Hulk, him trying to impart that knowledge onto Jen, and just demonstrate their familial relationship. They tease, they argue, but they care about each other, like any close family should.
I just want to start by saying I think both sides has the fault both CD and you. Regarding Bruce and Jen contest: I think CD shouldn't have displayed the thing the way he did, as it slightly misinform people unless you watch the episode. However I don't consider Jen actions as "playful". Bruce is earnestly trying to help her and she is constantly trying to make it a contest ignoring her cousin frustrations. When he push her off a cliff, he know she will be fine but Jen then say he a jerk for doing this despite her being more at fault. Regarding the scene: You are right that CD and other people shouldn't expect the same comic She Hulk but the scene biggest problem is the last part. "better than you." this scene is hard to defend because it makes good points but also contridicte them as well. Jen is cat called in the street and how she react isn't how she say she normally react infact she let off the anger rather quickly resulting in Bruce having to take her down fast. This scene break character to say something the writer wish to express rather than actually show through the actual scenes. As thus Jen becomes a figure head for the writer which isn't good writing when it can be scene as such. Regarding the opening statement: I feel your interpretation is a bit too much into believing Jen is a naturally good person. The scene is more saying "do one have to do good if they have the ability to?". CD is wrong that it doesn't explain much of Jen but I feel you're wrong in thinking Jen is an audruistic person. Not using later episodes as examples; in every situation where Jen is given the choice to do good, Bruce offer her to be a hero, Taking the high road when it come to Bruce training and even beating up Titania; she show resistence and refusal till her hand is forced. My guess was the trial was to defend a witness who could have done something but refused to. Regarding being a hulk vs being a lawyer arguement: This is just flat out wrong, Jen being a Lawyer in this show hasn't really matter much. Rather it been an arguement who to value more Jen or She Hulk but Jen need to realize that they are both her and she can enjoy both rather than battle with it. Jen has 3 cases in the 7 episodes, first one was a mistrial due to favorable jury, second one won legit, and third case was settle outside of court with a threat. Notice how little cases she won through legit means or with her skills as a laywer. Regarding hypeman: There is equal arguement here for whether or not having a hype man for the protagonist is good writing. Usually a hype man is given to a villain, to show a wall of greatness vs the protagonist or to remind you how far the protagonist has gone/unique position they have however there very little need for hype mans for the long run and but if they are they do establish their own smaller characters traits in the beginning to branch off. With Nikki they don't show that and all she ever does is push Jen into situation aka a plot device. Regarding Female empowerment: I feel this is ignorant of the point of what empowerment is and why people grown tired of it. Empowerment is the act of showing off how strong you are but it isn't the act of putting others down. Dennis is a strawman to just constantly poke out but the problem is every man is an antagonist in this episode and there isn't one supportive male character to Jen struggles(Bruce is an antagonist by the term of being against what the protagonist want.). Often saying "men don't have to go through this." but why not point out the harsh things men still get chewed out on or aren't allowed to do. While I know it's a different Jen from the comics, Jen has always been a fair person to both side of any arguement and stand for true equality and justice. Regarding TSD Car: I actually agree with most of what TSD says except for one thing being who pulls who out. CD is mainly wrong about the whole scene but it should be Bruce to pull Jen out the car as for 1 Jen is driving and is more likely to get knocked out and 2 Bruce has been in worse situation where he hasn't been knocked out where as Jen hasn't. There nothing wrong with giving another character a small amount of agency because the mcu is more meant to give off this natural world not be as contrieve as fiction. Regarding Sitcom: I feel there is a point that this show isn't meant to be your drama action show like most shows marvel projects..... but this episode doesn't present itself as a sitcom till the end of the episode, for most of the episode present itself as straight and similar to other marvel movies. As such the defense "its a sitcom" doesn't work here. But also sitcom do have darker scenes even in the first episode, the reason being is that they want you to first and formost get into the character head and know what they naturally deal with before the rest of the show changes their life. This episode barely shows us that rather mostly show us Jen dealing with being the hulk which is usually put in the second episode of the character realizing their change. The first episode tend to introduce the new element in a character life but it shows it first in a small effect.
@TexasRanger877 I see woke as more like one day you realise all dreams you work to achieve your dreams are actually for others benifit not yours. For example a qoute from the late Bill Hicks "If you want to understand a society, take a good look at the drugs it uses. And what can this tell you about American culture? Well, look at the drugs we use. Except for pharmaceutical poison, there are essentially only two drugs that Western civilization tolerates: Caffeine from Monday to Friday to energize you enough to make you a productive member of society, and alcohol from Friday to Monday to keep you too stupid to figure out the prison that you are living in." Thats being woke in my opinon
While I usually appreciate different perspectives on a subject, you can't really blame Drinker for constructing his own narrative in his video if you are doing the same thing. I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not, but this video essay contains many factual errors, untruths and even some techniques which are in psychology considered to be quite manipulative.
PoG does this on purpose because it doesn't suit his narrative. He did with the star wars community calling them racist over a collage but didn't understand the context of the situation with her saying there hasn't been any people of colour in star wars, admits she never watched the movies then only watched the prequels when she was hired. A minority of the community might be racist but nowhere near all of it. Then look at his an altright youtuber stole my content(referring to smud boy doing a stream on said star wars video and pointing out his errors), never once explained how he is altright, admitted it feel under fair use along with not explaininghow he stole it, got made over them making a joke about his latte and not forget the all might of PoG doxxing himself.
I like a criticism of the drinker because I would like him to tone down the attacks on wokeism but yes the drinker interprets it in the worst way and pog in the best possessible way.
Honestly, people who put -drinker in their title tend to be assholes. At least I can't think of counter examples. Also, and not for nothing.... I like bourbon too, but good golly man, you're where the name Scotch *comes from*. Get yourself a nice single malt! Joking aside, I came across a video of his a while ago.... on Andor maybe? And was nodding along for a while until he started in on Kathleen Kennedy. I know some people who have very good critiques of her, but idk, I could intuit contempt there that went beyond just 'I think she makes poor choices as a producer.' Also, the whole throwing a boulder thing is so dishonest. Yes, Jen hurls a boulder farther. But then we see Bruce just practically launch a boulder FAR farther.
Show me a video of two guys who've never read the She-Hulk comics. The show deliberately changed the original comic origin of Bruce saving Jen because they didn't want their female lead looking less superior to men. Any true fan of the comics would know that the comic origin was the superior version and even with that "drama", she was still humorous. Good writing like that will never appear on this show, no matter how much Social Justice Kool-aid you drink.
The easiest way of critiquing she hulk is bringing up all the better alternatives. The good place Agent Carter Agents of shield Daredevil Jessica jones Atlanta Community Each of the shows I listed here are all better at doing what she hulk is trying to do. Jessica jones and agents may are jerks. But its because of their past trauma. What's she hulk excuse. Agent Carter had to deal with male jerks in the workplace because that show portrayed 1950s women reentering the work place after WW2. Agents of shield is absolutely hilarious and has a ton of badass women without it hitting you in the face with it. They are just badass but happen to be female. Atlanta and community and the good place are all better sitcoms and are actually funny. And finally Daredevil is able to hide how bad of a lawyer show it is by at least being a good drama Thank you for coming to my ted talk. I see the she hulk scripts as being something that should have been baked in the oven a little bit longer. I loved episode 7 the most. So thats fun. But the show is clearly a slice of life romantic comedy with superhero law stuff on the sidelines. If they advertised it as slice of life I think it may have been received better.
I'm going to add Netflix's Partner Track to the list of shows that dud it better and, according to an interview with Jessica Gao, the show *is* supposed to be a slice of life. I would have believed her if the show had started with Episode 4.
The fact that theyr better shows at its genre doenst mean the show is a piece of shit as you bunch of incels say. The show is at the level of the most mcu products, and the mcu has never been top tier in nothing. So dont be that condescendt and deal with the fact that the show is GOOD, its not perfect, at all, but is miles far from being some of the worst mcu things, bc its just not. Me as a comic book fan, am satisfied with this, if its as good as community for example then i could be even happier, but for me this is the least.
Yeaaaah, personally I didn't think She-Hulk was a jerk. In fact I find her more likable than Jessica Jones in some aspects. Don't get me wrong, Jessica is a good character, but at times her jerkassery reaches extremes I find a bit annoying.
It is clear you have never watched Atlanta, I guess you just wanted included a Black show. Atlanta is a surreal satire about Black life, fame and manhood with horror elements. It is far from a sitcom.
Exactly my thoughts, The Critical Drinker has honestly been nothing but a sleaze bag in the past recent months,you can tell his bias shows more and more. Of course his yes man are gonna be quick to defend his takes because...they can't think properly.
My decision to stop watching the critical drinker 4 years ago has been the best decision I’ve ever made for my brain cells. I get that people have a right to a opinion but honestly it ironically kinda feels like he’s pushing a agenda
Oh Loki is the protagonist? The guy who got emasculated the whole season? The God of mischief who was killing people 2 days ago in New York suddenly has a change of heart and falls in love. Please, if anything he should have had a very slow character progression towards good.
There is definitely a schrödinger’s man element in TCD and other’s critiques. “Man” is criticised for being depicted as blatantly evil but also defended as being unduly despised or belittled by the female lead at the same time. It can’t be both of course.
I remember early videos of the drinker when he was normal and funny. I don't know what's worse - that he's become an alt-right mouthpiece, or that he plays that role because it's profitable? I've seen this happen to Russel Brand too 😢
A lot of people are lacking critikal media literacy. Instead of putting themselves inside the character's shoes they act like one of those guys like "well I would've done....." not every character is you. They have their own story.
I don't want to say anything negative about Mr. Drinker, but I recently stopped watching his movie reviews because in the last one I watched (about Ghostbusters '16) he commented that he thought it was silly that all the discourse about how bad the movie is was flattened into antiwoman sh*tposting, said that that was not going to be his argument about how bad the movie was, then proceeded to make points about how the movie pandered to women (blah, blah blah...) I thought this was SUCH bad criticism that I closed the video and unsubscribed. I still have the video saved in my watch later list. I want to try to watch it again later and possibly resubscribe to his channel but it just left a super bad taste in my mouth.
Y’know I do like some of the things the critical drinker, but there are some VERY valid points here in regards to his critique of the She-Hulk show. There’s a reason why I’m still watching the show, and that’s because I can’t properly judge something if I haven’t even finished what I started. Now with that being said, I do think the bigger issue at hand that others have with the show, is how heavy handed some of the messaging can come off. There are other ways to write dialogue when criticizing a character in the show. For example, the entire sequence with She-Hulk describing how she deals with her emotions comparatively to Bruce. Who, although it is implied Jennifer has experienced forms of harassment, Bruce is a victim of child-abuse and a survivor of attempted suicide. I understand that people deal with trauma differently, but Jennifer didn’t have to compare who deals with their trauma better than the other. Basically writing flawed or bad characters should be written in a way that doesn’t feel or come off as heavy handed. Whereas a good example of this in the show is with the jerk lawyer who objectifies women and/or belittles and disrespects Jen when she’s more than qualified for her job, or Titania herself who is an entitled brat who is attempting to create drama or friction in Jen’s life, AND is not a M A N.
@@ShadowSonic2 that’s what you took from all that? And regardless even if it was implied what validity does that have in regards to both Bruce’s and Jennifer’s character development? Bruce has still attempted suicide as noted in the first Avengers? So what’s your point?
The thing that gets me about comparative suffering (aside from being silly as a concept) is what it glosses over. People have been saying “Bruce has had a worse life Jen had it way easier” as though that isn’t a justification for her having more control over her emotions. He has rage issues because of his past, the hulking out isn’t just rage, it’s a sign of mental instability. Smart hulk has worked through enough of his shit to reconcile his different personalities. Jen never developed a split personality and so she is in control much more quickly.
What people often forget while defending Jen's outrage is that we been watching Hulk, his trauma and sacrifices for years (within the context of MCU) and then a new character comes in and says she/he has more trauma.. Ofcourse, people gonna have problem with that cause they have this emotional bond growing up with Hulk and Bruce throughout the years while in 8 episodes of She-Hulk we see no personal growth in her cause she is perfect from the beginning (as per the writers).. There's a reason why this old saying exists "Show don't tell".. The show keeps telling literally whose show Shw-Hulk is but failed to cause most of the hype was on cameos rather than the characters it's supposed to be based on
What people who keep going on about poor Bruce Banner's giant heaps of trauma keep forgetting if that Jen's speech isn't about who has the most trauma. It's about how it is socially unacceptable for women to loose their cool and get angry, while it is practically expected for men to do so. She is better at it than Bruce (who, frankly, wasn't good at that at all before he evolved into Smug Hulk) because she has a lifetime of practice.
If Jen had said "My dad violated me from the age of 12 to 18 very often and my Mom beat me because she was jealous, that's why I can control my anger"... ...The Broflakes would say that's nothing to be upset about and it's nothing traumatizing.
@@smirkyshadow What you are doing is just not understanding what words mean. You have decided that it means what you think it means, and you're twisting the language to support your meaning.
@@smirkyshadow It means that women always have to control their anger, while Bruce never had any raeson to bother with anger control before he became a Hulk. It means that society accepts men that get angry. It's expected of them.
Fun fact: the Critical Drinker and his ilk WILL NEVER become invested in a female protagonist because they're misogynist assholes. This explains 100% of his criticism of the show.
Isn't drinker's version of the story just adapting the first issue of she hulk Also since when do female characters need all of the male characters be either weak or stupid or evil or subservient or incompetened or sexist for females to be strong
1. partially, particularly his take on the origin, but a relatively minor alteration to a 40+ year old comic book is worth it to *properly* introduce a new protagonist, as we saw with She-Hulk episode 1. 2. Never, and as we’ll discuss in the followup video, that’s not at all what’s happened with She-Hulk
@@PillarofGarbage I'd love to get your take on Partner Track. Its a show about a Lawyer and, with the exception of the comedy angle, I think its everything She-Hulk aspired to be and, most importantly to me, it has a Strong Female Character who is strong but not at the expense of the Men around her.
This is a trash take. She has every right to see ‘anger’ according to her own experience but saying she controls anger INFINITELY MORE THAN THE FUCKING HULK is ridiculous!
is it not possible for a show's protagonist to exaggerate and/or be incorrect? the whole point of that scene is that she DOES become angry, that the way she muffles her anger doesn't mean she controls it, right? she nearly goes green in that scene, too.
@@seyio1717 100% agree, the entire show could be better but i dont think this scene was necessarily mishandled. there are things they could have done to make it better, but what she says definitely isn't what the show is trying to assert as fact. the idea they are presenting is very clear to me.
The point is not about who has it worse, the point is thar Jen knows Bruce from childhood and she knows that he as an individual has never been good at dealing with his anger. Rage Hulk, is Banner Hulk, not every Hulk. That was the point. That is and always was the case in the comics lore. It's why Banner is the only Gamma monster to get stronger as he gets angrier. READ MORE COMICS PEOPLE.
@@TheRenegadeMonk Both make good points, both make bad points. These are their opinions, and I’ll always take such with a grain of salt. I dislike the way PoG’s fanbase screams “BIGOT”, and I dislike the way Drinker’s fanbase screams “SNOWFLAKE”, though.
Between the burnout, and the quality of previous MCU shows I’ve been too critical of She-Hulk. I was just expecting it to be more than a Low stakes, slice of life sitcom. She-Hulks not a big event, and chances are if you don’t watch it you won’t miss out on anything crucial. It still has its flaws as every show does. Most channels have already covered the flaws to a ludicrous degree, and channels like Drinker criticize it for the wrong reasons. My main issues with are just the basic court scenes, Uncanny CGI, overuse of comedy, and the need to turn serious characters like Wong into a joke when their are already enough jokers in the MCU. It’s not the worst the MCU has made, but it’s far from the best. Hope the last few episodes will change my mind. Because I don’t want to hate the show, but I don’t want to blindly love it either.
Yes drinker is biased and it seems to effective some of his reviews. I don’t agree with his opinion that Jen’s opening statement (closing statement in reality) makes her unlikeable… If anything it shows that her friend is more annoying than anything (or a good friend..?). 9:35 - I also don’t agree with your statement that secondary characters giving the protagonist the “your so great, you can do anything” speech is used to show the audience that secondary character traits and not just lazy writing. I think it’s absolutely a way to breeze by showing us how good Jen is. She doesn’t really do any above average lawyering throughout the season (probably because the writers said that they “quickly learned none of them knew how to write a legal show”). It was a way to for writers to avoid that. Your example of Loki is a little better, however Sylvie can absolutely be viewed as the main character. She’s the one that’s mostly driving the plot in the second half, she’s better at fighting and an overall better version of Loki. Yes him saying this shows us that he has warmed up to her, however it doesn’t change the fact that here the writers are also using it as a crutch to show how great and much better sylvie is than Loki… I mean come on man look at the past 4/5 years of “girl boss” movies with similar moments. To act like this type of writing isn’t being used to prop up female characters and show they don’t need a man’s help is just lying to yourself.
I hope the best to you. Because I can't get past Jen toxic behavior. It's genuinely disturbing watching her belittle her cousin like that. Especially when it's the opposite in the comic, Jennifer being supportive to both Banner and Hulk is why I love her in the first place.
Despite also having a small issue or two with the first episode, I feel it perfectly sets up the rules and expectations for the rest of the series to follow. Jen's story isn't supposed to be a perfect mirror of Bruce's. Honestly, loving the series so far and the episode The Retreat did a lot of very interesting things with the characters❤
Well, of course. I'm happy they're doing something different. Just wished they didn't make it seem like the average American woman's daily, miniscule inconviniences were on par or even worse to go through than being constantly chased down by the government, trapped inside of your own body for 2 years on an alien planet, having to watch your friends die, and attempt a suicide before failing, not because you stopped yourself but your alter-ego did.
TCD seems like the kind of audience who can't go beyond the superficiality, unable to read the subtlety and visual narrative. And his opinion of The Boys season 4 is even worse. As a supposedly critic, shouldn't he be aware of the golden rule "show, don't tell?"
🗣Honestly resorting to name calling to get your point across is pretty shallow and pathetic especially considering the fact that critical drinker had good point about the infamous scene about Jen controlling her anger better than Bruce which is simply not true if u read a comic book u would know that
Drinker name calls people too, dude. I agree that name calling is shallow (unless it's directed towards genuinely awful people), but you can't pretend that Drinker doesn't do that either.
The bar scene doesn't set-up Jen's claim that she's an expert at controlling her anger. To the contrary it completely refutes it by showing her submitting to her anger and losing control. It would have been much better (and a great callback) if she'd instead said something about being (justifiably) angry all the time.
I guess this depends on how you take TCD’s line that the episode ‘doesn’t actually show us any of the things she’s complaining about’. Jen ‘complains’ about being catcalled on the street - that’s what we see. I guess your point is that TCD meant to say ‘it doesn’t actually show us Jen remaining calm during any of the experiences she’s complaining about’ - and if he’d said that, yeah, I wouldn’t have cut to the bar scene, but if that’s what he meant, he probably should have said it.
@@PillarofGarbage i gonna take a page from your argument Earlier in the comment section i believe you said words mean things and paying attention to those scenes helps us understanding the scenes THIS Clearly Shows that you weren't paying Attention to CD's Argument At All
@@seyio1717 what makes you think he does listen. He's willing to suck off Walt Disney if it gets avengers EMH back on they air, which he is clearly doing
@@seyio1717 my guy, not being able to control your anger after seeing a spaceship, crashing your car, and transforming into a hulk isn’t the own you think it is
I mean, I don’t like marvel stuff generally and that line was VERY on the nose, but as a small woman with an MA and a pretty severe SA history I get what she’s saying. I’m talked down to, about my areas of expertise, ALL THE TIME, and as I’ve processed my trauma I’ve had insane amounts of rage come up. But unless you’re a good friend I talk to about it, you’d never know, because I DO keep it under control. I don’t unleash it on others. Idk man, that line made her VERY relatable to me - I think TCD just doesn’t like women who express anger
How likeable is a character that complains about people only liking her because she's She-Hulk, but then takes advantage of being She-Hulk in both her professional and dating life? It's a contradiction that earns her zero sympathy from the audience.
That's called BEING HUMAN. We have complex emotions and we aren't always perfect goody too shoes like you seem to want her to be. Plus she doesn't complain about people only liking she Hulk until AFTER she gets a job that only wants her to be in she hulk form, AFTER she unsuccessfully gets tinder dates until she signs up as She Hulk, etc it's perfectly normal at this point in the story for her to be a bit sad that Jen seems to get sidelined and everyone just wants she hulk.
Wasn’t she forced to be in her Hulk form so that she can have a job at the superhuman law division after not being hired by any firm since her Hulk reveal?
Her complaint wasn't about her being "forced" to be She-Hulk, her complaint was that the only reason they wanted her at all was because she was She-Hulk.
No, the point about jane already having no problems with her male colleague is not dismished because he interrupts her. Nothing he makes creats a true negative effect on her, every time it's just a mildly inconvenience, that she, by being absolutely superior, is not really affected. There is no tension when he appears, because he is just pathetic and is treated like a pathetic character. So CD point is absolutelly valid, him interrupting her don't make him a threat, a challenge or anything like that, and the way tha they dismis him tell us that he don't matter and have no power over them, as sush, he is just a pathetic, mildly inconvenience to the main character. It's just bad, because what he representes in the show should be the main villain, but it's a really badly portraited villain.
It's amazing how much "evidence" of bad writing you find if you go into a show expecting it to be badly written because of ThE wOkE aGeNdA. When you want a scene to achieve A, are too tied up in your own biases to see that it achieves B and then berate it for failing to achieve A, that doesn't count as a failure on the part of the writers.
Hi! Here’s the followup video, which puts content like TCD’s into context:
Does She-Hulk Hate Men?
th-cam.com/video/pSsN-Yhkpog/w-d-xo.html
she hulk doesn't just hate men it also thinks the audience Is dumb
I'm watching these videos backwards but you deserve the views ✨️ 👏🏿
This video is a ridiculous reaction to a critical review. She hulk is bad it's a fact even before the writers the actress and mark himself shows the show's pretending to be successful. Cmon man are you joking or being a serious critical dude?😂😂😂
On another note he's a genuinely nice guy who doesn't do the things you say at all. He makes a good point and people actually like his videos. You of all people don't actually think she hulk tv is good right? The comics are good. The tv show is a failure made by a comic hater and a propagandist.
@@pixelcheerful3453 FAX
CD is great and she-hulk sucks
I wasn’t a huge fan of She-Hulk. The daredevil episode was pretty much the only one I enjoyed. But watching CD’s videos on it just made me angry, they weren’t good arguments for… anything.
She hulk is so over hated. People found literally anything to complain about. The show is just kinda boring to me and that’s it personally. As a dude you have to have very thin skin to get offended by anything in she hulk
She-Hulk is no worse than any of the other low grade nonsense Marvel's young writers have cobbled together lately. It's all written at a rather embarrassing level at this point, except spider-man
i actually liked she hulk overall, and the humor worked better as it was more slice of life compared to other mcu properties, the only thing that didnt work for me was the ending
That was actually the only thing I didn't like about She-Hulk. Men don't do the walk of shame! If anything, we swag home the morning after! "Yeah! I got some!" 😎
@@iamyouarei9497 The way I see it is this -
Nobody disagrees that marvel's quality isn't where it should be.
Nobody AGREES why that is.
I personally lean on it NOT being due to 'sjws' or 'wokeness'. The issue with She Hulk was that it was trying to be Allie McBeel 20 years too late and to the wrong audience. I personally though the shows was fine, not great, but not terrible.
I certainly don't think it was hateful towards men. Just mocking of a certain type of man. But there's the thing . . . If you know you're not that type of man, there's nothing to take offense about.
I understand that every show and movie can be critiqued but what bothers me is when people start calling everything the “ woke agenda “ anytime they see a person of color, a female lead character, or someone that’s apart of the LGBT community. It’s like they want every single movie to revolve around straight white men and everyone else should either be a token character that’s simply there to help the lead white character or not be represented at all.
Exactly, in general if they use the word "agenda" it's usually an indicator that they aren't worth taking seriously, because they've probably been watching people like Andrew tate, or Rogan, or Crowder and have been manipulated into thinking they're under attack by a certain group
Agree 💯. It’s lazy commentary. Don’t you think?
To the anti-woke there are only two genders - male and political -and only two races - white and political.
Can't take credit for that line, but once you hear it you see it everywhere.
I read a much-upvoted comment on a TCD video saying they no longer even WATCH a movie if a PoC is featured - just to escape "Hollywood wokeism".
Dude legit felt he was in a safe space to inadvertently declare he'd descended into a full-blown knee-jerk racist
It's particularly egregious when the complaints are about social justice issues in modern takes of properties that have always been loudly and consciously about social justice issues. "How dare a show called She-Hulk center around the female experience?!" is a really weird flex. To be fair, TCD has already managed to complain about diversity in modern Star Trek, so willful blindness to irony in this case can't be much of a stretch for him.
I liked that in the comics Bruce's normal hulk is a separate entity due to Bruce's history of trauma. Jen is (usually) a stable hulk because she doesn't have the same history. There's also a separation that I think kind of existed in the show where Bruce's hulk is triggered by anger and Jen's is triggered by anxiety. IDK, maybe themes about how patriarchy forces men to internalize emotions where women are allowed to be more expressive.
I like that. 🤔 Interesting take.
Lol
@@ConspiracyGamesAndPodcastClips Honestly, that's how how She-Hulk transformation usually also depicted in comic. There are other Hulk-Persons who are transformation also, like Jen, are not triggered by anger. There's A-Bomb, triggered by feeling guilty. Doc Samson, by the need to be a Hero. Father and daughter pair, Red-Hulk and Red She-Hulk, by controlled anger. None of them, like Jen, gone through a long first-time hulking berserk phase. hell, as I recall, Doc Samson and all variant of Red-Hulks never gone through any berserk phase at all. Doc Samson manage to psycho analized his hulk form to bits, Red She-Hulk is just cold-anger, Red-Hulk is way too military he able to discipline his anger.
I still haven't yet met the patriarchy. Are they hidden inside some bunker like the fallout games?
How I've heard it explained is that the Hulk was always a split personality inside Bruce from childhood trauma given form by the gamma accident. It's unclear to me if he ever had any "Hulk episodes" before the gamma accident tho or if it was just a dormant split personality until it was given form and thus more power inside his psyche
Woman hypes up another woman after a man is snide? BAD WRITING OBVIOUSLY HOW DARE FRIENDS BE
*Checks notes*
Supportive!
It definitely seems like Drinkypoo has just never had a friendly interaction with another human being before. Like, all three of his examples (of the writers supposedly shouting character details at the audience) are just the most normal, human moments of interaction. In fact, understanding the dynamic makes the text of what they're saying less reliable because they're likely exaggerating the positives to be more supportive. Any person who's ever had a friend would understand this, right?
@@philipvipond2669 TCD IS what people have in mind when they say 'Toxic Masculinity.'
Also, it gets him clicks.
@Porter-1488 Yes youre right. Men are so cruel to other men and look down on them when they dare to step outside the box of "masculinity"
And remember to check up on your friends! The best cure to male loneliness is being there for each other
@Porter-1488 Hulk and Daredevil were villains in this? I must have missed that scene. As far as I remember, even the literal villains weren't villains, they were a support group. To be fair, I don't have perfect recall, so you may be right. But, in my defense, it's only been... *scroll up* an entire year since I made this comment, and even longer since I watched the show.
Nice attempt at necromancy, dude. Now, please go outside.
@Porter-1488 Me with two girlfriends: Chto?
Drinker's biases have gotten louder and louder, and it drowns out most of his more coherent talking points.
Are the biases really the problem here or the barely masked "intolerance" for minorities?
He has coherent talking points?
@@kostajovanovic3711 both and women too?
@@Swenglish Can't say he doesn't get the basic fundamentals. but that's a low bar.
He needs to pander to his audience of anti-woke manchildren which shows his hypocrisy. He still makes an attempt which is already an upgrade from his kind who will judge how bad a show or film is just based on screenshots and trailers.
I've watched Drinker's review of Midsommar and that was enough for me.
He says some really dumb shit and it's like he has short term memory when he watches movies.
He literally complained that she cries all the time like dude HER FAMILY IS DEAD
Misdommar was trash though
You can like terrible films. It's ok.
@@DestructoDisk I said Midsommer was trash. That means I didn't like the terrible film
I have the impression that he watches drunk and recalls the films/shows through the buzz haze.
The point about Bruce and Jen being family is so important: their teasing, goading, and competing is fully informed by the family dynamic.
Yeah but girls
The writing is just amature though. Like all marvels phase 4 content unfortunately.
@@iamyouarei9497Care to explain?
@@iamyouarei9497 We're talking about She-Hulk though not the entirety of MCU Phase 4. That's a whole separate conversation.
@@iamyouarei9497All? I'd say most
to be fair in the comic Jen really didn't have a choice she was loosing blood from being shot and Bruce was the only one with a matching blood type that could give her a transfusion.
And the mob hit didn't fly with their vision for the show. She-Hulk's comic origin is pretty heavy with her mother already being dead.
@@marvelboy74 Yeah it would have gone over pretty badly for a comedy show I do like it as a different take for her tho, honestly tho I would love to see a more serious take on her, but that isn't this show and should be this show since it's a comedy not a drama.
They state that the Drinkers version would rob her of her agency, when in the version we got she also had no agency: it was coincidence.
You could argue that the writers would rather want coincidence to be the cause of her getting her powers, than like it seems to be in the comic, let it be Bruce's decision to save her.
@@OthelloSilvermoon
Also Bruce, Jennifer, and his mom and her dad have a genetic abnormality (possibly mutant gene) that when exposed to any kind of radiation it won't kill them including gamma
In avengers 2012 , Tony outright tells Bruce he should of died , the MCU was already establishing that something in Bruce's DNA when affected by gamma radiation doesn't kill him but alters his DNA and only comes to the surface as hulk when he's scared , mad or even sad
Also in the comics Emil Blonksy , Betty Ross, her father and Rick Jones have the same genetic abnormality
@@saftpackerlBruce had no agency. He was saving Rick Jones. Or the lab technician in the movie. It was an act of sacrifice. Jen just got blood splashed on her, and as usual, Bruce takes all the blame on himself, though it wasn't his fault
I've been in a small dilema about this show since I really don't like it (at least as far as it goes and what I've seen), but for reasons that have nothing to do with ''bad because woke''.
I feel like the writers really don't understand how comedy works. It's not just to say and do funny things every now and then, it's rather about delivery, build-up, timing and to deal with both the drama and the comedy without being anticlimactic. She-Hulk's classic breaking of the forth wall has been used mostly only to make the character say these meta jokes, what she believes the audience thinks, so it ends up being frustrating and uncreative given the immense possibilities that the comics have aready explored.
On the other hand, it really looks like a very superficial adaptation, as if instead of exploring the material they decided to watch a couple of YT videos about the character and called it a day, so my biggest problem with Jennifer Walters it that she has not proven to be that good of a lawyer in the first place, and it really shows when this other more interesting lawyer appears with actual preparation and sense of anticipation to help with her case.
I know it doesn't have to be like the comics and tha they have creative freedom, but given Byrne's awesome run with the character, as well as the work of other great creator, it's hard not to look at what could've been. Also, it's one of the longest MCU miniseries, yet it keeps that awful ''leave everyting to the last episodes'' tradition.
I don’t personally agree with all of these points, but they’re all totally valid opinions - let’s just say if TCD’s video had been remotely like your comment, I’d never have felt the need to make a response!
@@PillarofGarbage Thanks, great video as always. I have to say that I liked the first episode. I mean, the infamous ''infinitely more than you'' is pretty much a ''you were saying?'' type of joke, but memes cut the part when she transforms immediately after due to her lack of control.
@@anderurteaga3707 Show supporters would say her transforming back immediately after proves her point - I would say her stopping herself from attacking the men at the bar would have shown the point better and made her more sympathetic when she "Infinitely More" 's Bruce as she would have already SHOWN that to the audience - and possibly Bruce - rather than having Bruce tackle her.
@@PillarofGarbage but the show is just woke garbage that's why all these scenes are the way they are and all of the cds points still hold true
@@elibonham4388 Famous Media Understander Eli Bonham has logged in
I stopped watching CDs videos a while back because of his pattern of using woke to dismiss characters based on their race and/or gender. I have no problem in the critique of cheap exploitation and tokenism and obvious insincerity when studios want to appear inclusive and when they’re not. But CDs criticism isn’t about the insincerity or that inclusion could be done better but about the fact inclusion exists to begin with and would rather it didn’t through gaslighting, dog whistles and micro aggressions.
I think what got me is his Westworld video was entirely just bitching William as the only white guy wasn't the hero of the story lol
@@blurryperson2685 yep he does that in all of his videos if it doesn't have a white masculine guy as the main protagonist
It's automatically a piece of shit
Which I get hating on wokeness but to make it a point in every video, CD just repeats the same thing but with different words and it's honestly just a waste of my time
The only good video he's done recently was him praising Stranger Things season 4 for actually fixing the problems in season 3
this is why i dont like him
I have to defend him, cause that's not true and it's too much, just making a man sound racist. He doesn't mind inclusion, he minds when a show or a movie has inclusion, but lacks quality writing. He's just annoyed that in art someone would prioritise inclusion over art. He loved Arcane for example
@@filipratkovic5561 this no one understand what he is trying to point out it's like people lack intelligence
I feel like the Critical Drinking would be one of those guys who, if they are a writer, make sure to make mention of a woman's chest any time she'd mentioned. You know those guys, 'her bosoms heaved excitedly' and so on. But then, that's just me using bias to view him.
Well lucky for you he is a WRiTeR. He's got a series of books the "Ryan Drake" series. His actual name is Will Jordan. I've never personally read them but I've been meaning to look into them since he seems to think that because he's written that series he's got higher credentials to critique things than his plebeian detractors.
TCD is one of those types of critics where they think they know how a film works and how it should works because they either watched a lot of behind the scenes content, read a few subjective books about the pretentious artistry of filmmaking or have made a “student film” using only the basics of filmmaking and claim that it’s just as good as a big budget block buster movie! That kind of person! I’ve seen them many times and they are the worst kinds of critics!
@@gandyaao260 His fanbase is the exact same way about this. He wrote books so that makes him an infallible expert on writing.
@@gandyaao260 I looked up the books on Goodreads and one of the reviewers called his main woman character a Mary Sue. I’m sure you can appreciate the irony in that.
Lol he is actually a writer. But a lot of people are writers. Doesn't make anyone more qualified to criticize something than anyone else. Which means he can criticize things to his hearts desire. And he must be doing something right because when someone has this many haters on TH-cam, it usually means they have millions of fans. So, go criticize to your hearts content and see how many followers you can get. It won't make your criticisms any more or less valuable than his. Almost like it's asinine to criticize others for criticizing art
26:50 I wouldn't even say its a power fantasy about putting "asshole men in their place" the focus of the feeling isn't the men threatening her, it's her being able to feel protected on her lonesome, that's why the "my boyfriend is coming" line is there, which shows how much more powerful that fantasy is, its not "teach a lesson to the bully" it's "I can walk around without the fear of dying"
Exactly!
You are just making BS up now kid
@@seyio1717 I wish I was and that I hadn't directly heard a female friend say this when we were discussing the show
@@jocareding533 pulling that BS female friend Card huh
@@seyio1717 clearly you haven’t met any actual women so stfu
The problem with alot of criticism of late.
Is people criticising something because it isn't what they expected it to be.
Critical Drinker is the worst for this. 'The imaged alternative' as Pillar said.
That's destructive criticism right there. Constructive criticism would have been better, but we're on the internet so, that's not happening.
The guy who does these critiques, the critical drinker, is a misogynistic, bigoted moron.
TH-cam keeps recommending CriticalDrinker videos to me and I *cannot* understand why. Looking forward to this.
I clicked on the don't recommend channel button. He still shows up in searches but the home page is free.
@@zachplummer625 good idea. I'll be doing that
same here. i watched his vid on ms marvel cause it was recommended to me and i was like…woah he’s judging the whole show by the trailer and talking about her being “cocky” …which isn’t her character at all? seems like he just makes up excuses to be prejudiced lol
I try to watch him and I run away when I saw his content.
Aka his video on "Run, Hide, Fight".
@@zachplummer625 No offense but no shit sherlock, it says "don't recommend", so it won't appear in the recommendation tab i.e the home screen, but it'll appear in searches.
Though it's stupid from youtube's part, if someone doesn't want to see videos from a channel anymore it should be like blocking an account and never seeing it again until you un"don't recommend".
Yeah, well done. I used to watch Drinker in his early days…then things started to get a little bit fishy. He’s sadly little more than a culture war profiteer now. I suspect he doesn’t really care about any of that crap but is glad to cash in on people’s manufactured outrage. Or maybe he does care and is just a tiny bit more careful about it - either way it doesn’t help anyone but himself.
Agreed. I first saw his videos about 4 years ago, and I found his slams over plot points amusing. Over the last couple years, however, he's gone from slamming laughable flaws in a movie to whining about what he sees as affronts to his political biases in movies.
ive yet to see a vid of his where he doesnt whine about wokeness
Yup, I also watched a couple of his videos years ago and mostly enjoyed them. That's why it was so disappointing to watch him slide into a full-on culture warrior appealing to incels.
I guess I missed his early days because almost every video I’ve ever heard from him was him whining about “woke” like Ron DeSantis whining about the “woke” 800 times per minute.
Spot on, and to further hammer home this point, if you happen to stumble into the TCD subreddit, it's choc-full of alt-right/far-right rhetoric as that's the audience that he has curated and now has to pander to to keep the checks coming in. So now his critiques always have to be filtered through the lens of "woke is taking over hollywood', "feminism bad and unnecessary".
I watched Critical Drinker's "modern movies are written by children" or some such nonsense and I'm glad that was the first one because it showed me he had nothing of value to offer.
The value of a person's offering is determined by it's success in being consumed by an audience, particularly on the internet. You'd have to admit that on that scale, what he has to offer is vastly more valuable than what you or I have to offer
@@iamyouarei9497 I mean, not really?
For instance, we know for a fact that consumption on youtube is influenced heavily by playing to the algorithm even before the actual substance of a video begins to play. This isn't even up for debate, it's well documented and acknowledged by everyone from audiences to youtubers to Google corporate.
Critical drinker's success, for what it is, is simply opportunity, and staying within the algorithmic brackets for the demographic that he draws on for views.
Of course, any opinion that isn't yours has no value.
Ok Simp
@@egglordsasuke8532tbh, thats better than having your opinion determined by a youtuber, make your own opinion for once, i tried Fallout 3 when the internet hated on it, and i loved the game, because its my own opinion. the internet can hate it all it wants, i want to see them make their own opinion for once.
i was a fan of critical drinker's humor but his anti-feminism eclipsed his critical thinking some time ago. it was always there but just on simmer. Tatiana Maslany in Orphan Black was genius acting and IMHO this Hulk show is a lower standard for her and won't help her career in such a dramatic fashion as brilliantly playing 13 different people in one TV series (Orphan Black, it's amazing). This is a zoning out show that has no deep ethical dilemna to unpack. But for the diddling blinker: misogyny-by-default is a very lazy s4it-take.
Stuff like this makes me wonder if the actresses that get hired are deliberately misled so they’ll take the job.
@@suburbantimewaster9620 I mean, people wildly overestimate the clout that the vast majority of actors and actresses wield in hollywood. Even if you're successful it can be a very feast or famine profession. In that environment a role that keeps your name in the spotlight is worth taking a chance on if there's nothing else currently coming up.
So, to be anti-feminism is not critical thinking. Right, got it. LOL
@PeterCamberwick YES, antifeminism isn't critical nor thinking 🗿
Same here. I unsubbed ages ago cos I got sick of his conspiracies and complaints about "the woke agenda" in place of the actual problems with the films.
The Critical Drinker strikes me as a guy who was scorned by the system. Cause if you read his books his female characters run into the same issues he slams Hollywood for. He should change his name to the Hypocritical Drinker. At one point he was genuinely entertaining and insightful, but now his ideology is ruining his content. Now he sounds like every other reactionary dude on TH-cam. Complaining without adding anything new to the craft
For some, his content grates at their political investment. But his astounding growth in views and subscribers tells the story. As all successful content creators, he's honed his channel to what appeals to the majority. Appealing to the minority doesn't work in content creation if you don't want to need a day job.
@iamyouarei9497 D*mn I actually moved on and forgot about him until now. There are so many content creators they give better reviews and analysis out there and they never go political. It's exhausting to hear people's ideology injected into their content. It's just as annoying as when studios do it with their films, but If people like that sort of thing power to them
@@iamyouarei9497 Except 'majority' is meaningless when content is served up algorithmically. You're not targeting broad appeal to be seen by the masses on limited broadcast bandwidth, you're targeting a tailored audience who is already prepped to agree with you.
Like yeah, I think the Drinker is successful in his niche but his subscriber numbers are 'youtuber who found his audience' numbers, and that's about it.
I mean, for Goodness sake, channels on topics as uninteresting to the general public as woodworking and suburban design are within spitting distance of his numbers.
of *course* he's a writer. Heh.
@@iamyouarei9497Elsa x Spiderman videos were popular on youtube kids lmfao
She hulk had the unfortunate timing of coming out during a time when the MCU burnout seems to have reached its peak, which draws a lot of attention to a particularly common and contentious writing style and the abuse the people at the special effects department go through.
It was bound to happen inevitably. I say just smile that it happened if you enjoyed it or if not be glad that it's probably going to slowly deflate from here on out. The Superhero genre might not be the "it" thing for decades to come but until humanity itself burns out I doubt it'll ever disappear completely even if it changes drastically in presentation.
@@scratch2086 I really don't think the super hero genre as a whole is hurting though. Look at The Boys or The Batman. These projects are very popular, despite one being a dark comedy and the other being a really grim dark take.
It's the MCU formula that has gotten stale for people.
@@zipzzo Somewhat agree but it's also the fact that the MCU is in a position to cater to everyone instead of one demographic. Certain things won't be for everyone
She-Hulk is complete garbage it's a fact cope seeth
@@RebornVengeancex To u and many others that feel that way
2:07 "Mr. of Garbage."
You: "Please, Mr. of Garbage was my father, just call me Pillar."
"this is my son, Column of Trash."
I used to be a fan of Drinker, but he declined hard and fast. He used to be “I love the old movies like Rambo and Terminator because it had a strong guy and great action and no current politics” and I could nod and be like “I get it.” But now he’s so bitter and treats every bad film like it pointed at directly at the screen and threatened to shoot his dog because he’s a terrible, filthy man. He always assumes the worst, which gives him a really negative bias.
If he thinks he’ll like the movie, he’ll like it. If he thinks it’s going to be feminist slop, he’ll perceive it that way and hate the movie. He sees a show was written by a woman, and assumes the show will be garbage because of this. Which is kind of a HUGE red flag. “Woman writer = Bad movie every time without fail” is not at all a mindset someone calling themself a critic should have.
I didn’t like She-Hulk for a number of reasons. I didn’t expect it to be amazing, but I didn’t expect it to be feminist trash that belittles men and glorifies pronouns and convinces kids to take HRT and blah blah blah.. like Drinker seemingly did. It was a 4/10 show that did nothing particularly new or interesting and wasn’t particularly entertaining (to me). But that’s it. She-Hulk’s only sin was being kinda mid, it didn’t take his dog out back to be shot nor did it steal his car or burn down his house. But it was written by a woman, so that means he’s a victim of modern Hollywood and its hatred of men or whatever.
Best take.
Its crazy to think Terminator doesn't have politics is insane lmao
He was always a moron. Terminator is very woke and it did have currently politics.
@@SpaceandGoats right! All those movies had current politics FOR THE TIME and a lot of reviewers like CD don’t seem to get that
Good on you for including the audio of him saying his points so no one accuses you of not understanding his point.
Also really enjoyed the video, you got me through a slow day at work lol
Would have included more but didn’t want this to tip over to the point where anyone could claim I’m infringing on his copyright (it’s transparently fair use, but some TCD fans would probably be eager to try and get it blocked anyway)
Did my best to condense all the relevant context and get it in though, think I managed that fine
@@PillarofGarbage I think you did more then manage. I’d say you nailed
There's a lot to unpack with The Critical Drinker. However, I think we're better served burning the suitcase instead.
That is the most brilliant analogy I've ever heard
I think I’ve heard like half of one of his videos and it seems like he’s just another guy with opinions and none of them are insightful, original, or creative. I imagine he’s just the fucking worst.
The Critical Drunk is also the guy who utterly misconstrued the messages from "Midsommar" as "woman good, man bad, Hollywood woke". He'd be the last inanimate object from which I'd seek advice on writing. His alcoholism must have turned his brain into mush, because he's just that stupid.
"His alcoholism must have turned his brain into mush, because he's just that stupid."
Unfortunately, Mr. Will Jordan (aka 'The Critical Drinker') must be an extremely high-functioning alcoholic with a LOT of charisma otherwise, because he's apparently able to fool his genuinely impressive 1.77 million (current number as of this comment's posting) subscribers.
@@erichanson3369 well, a person can be smart, but people are stupid. so ?
@@erichanson3369Bot comment
His taste in booze is also shitty. No "self-respecting" drunk prefers Crap Daniel's over single-malt Scotch
@@erichanson3369 It's not his "charisma" that got him attention. He just peddles to the right (heh) crowd with the talking points they want to hear. The exact same as every other right-wing culture warrior.
When one character gives encouragement to another character - that shows the character being encouraged IS vulnerable and relatable because it shows that they, like everyone, NEEDS encouragement - especially right before they begin a major plan they've been working on really hard.
Critical drinker: there are women and minorities in this movie eww
Also the drinker: *admitting he was wrong about captain marvel.
th-cam.com/video/I-e5bptEFIM/w-d-xo.html
@@TheKirklandGamer That's not an admission.
I’m glad someone is calling drinkers bs out.
Actually he was right abt she hulk it was trash
@@ContranianCommando He was technically "right," but the point this video makes is that he took a lazy and st*pid approach to sh*tting on this sh*t show. His entire shtick has become "does my audience consider this woke?" and then he goes from there. It's juvenile and frustrating.
yes, i second this
fuck that guy seriously
It wasn’t BS at all. You just can’t tell the difference between someone who is criticizing a show for genuine reasons and someone who you just hate for the sake of hating them.
@@ArcticWolf00Alpha0 you can criticise the show, it wasn’t a good show but drinker has a woke agenda.
This is a valid critique video. I like how you used clips and rationally broke down his points instead of just shitting on him. People who try to do the same fall into the trap of just tearing someone apart because they don’t agree and it just ends up making most reasonable film fans look bad.
Yes I agree the video was effectively critical without being personal, but I also enjoyed that they sat back and watched him shit himself projecting his exact issues on to the writers of the show.
@@ArtFlunky is that suppose to make anyone laugh when you are this narrow minded
I do think most of the points are wrong though.
@@ArtFlunky
The writers are the only ones with issues they aren't competent or capable of writing anything compelling.
@@elongatedmanforever1252 Nah, they just weren't interested in appealing to Fragile Broflakes.
The only thing that bothers me is that when Jen says she manages her anger way more than Bruce because she’s a woman, that would make sense if she were talking to literally any other man than Bruce Banner. Like I understand they’re making a gendered point there but Bruce has had one of the most tortured lives of any superhero and it’s kinda ridiculous to say every single woman has it worse than Bruce specifically.
I understand that women on average have it worse than men, but Jen is an otherwise completely normal wealthy white lady from California and Bruce has spent the last 15 years of his life being hunted by the government, being trapped on an alien world, hiding out in third world countries, all while having to deal with the fact that if any of those situations bothered him he’d turn into an unstoppable nearly-mindless beast. Hell, when he was trapped in space he didn’t even have control of his own body. So the comparison between the two of their experiences having anything to do with gender is just ridiculous to me considering all their other extenuating circumstances.
I don't know. Suicide, crime rates and even domestic violence statistics don't seem to favor your argument of "women have it worse".
I don't think that's what scene is trying to say
It closer to when you became the Hulk you needed to learn to controll your anger because now you have a reason too if you don't you become the Hulk and we do see him learning to control his anger
Jen needed to control her anger this entire time she lists off things that bother her make her angry
It's not a my life is worse than yours thing
@@WatsonMainApex it still doesn't make sense for her to say she does it better than him, it's simply not true. The guy attempted suicided for fucks sake.
@@WatsonMainApex it kinda is a my life is worse than yours thing though because her entire point is that she has more practice controlling her anger than Bruce, which is a ridiculous notion because of what he's been through.
Are you open to the possibility that maybe that scene is showing you that Jen is wrong there? She doesn't have better control than Bruce, which the show shows you as she Hulks out in that and other scenes, in this and subsequent episodes, while Bruce is always in control of his anger. Do far, even Blonsky is shown to be more in control than her.
So, idk, maybe what she says during an angry outburst isn't supposed to be taken as some sort of thesis of the episode and the show?
"Jen saves Bruce from car" scene is great. It shows that, even without powers, she is a hero, who is ready to risk her life, to help people.
It’s called Direct Characterization and indirect characterization. Per my English teacher. I think this show does have a lot more direct characterization, but I think that’s kinda normal for a sitcom.
That's exactly it.
My teacher deadass just taught me that too a few weeks vack
No yeah sitcoms get by mostly with having recognizable and outspoken personalities. Look at friends, HIMYM, new girl, the office, Seinfeld, everybody loves Raymond, everybody hates Chris, that 70's show, 30 rock, All from different times and from completely different people yet all try to make characters that are easy to pick up and at least somewhat understand what their deal is
Ah this is why I hate sitcoms
@@lightningmonky7674 That's a fair. Just so long as you can accept that a lot of people enjoy this type of storytelling.
"The script is bad, because misogyny doesn't exist in the real world"
I don't know why he watched it. Of course that's what the show was going to deal with. That's all these female superhero shows/movies do. That's pretty much the only message women have a lot of the time.
Bruce has gone through much, much worse, but women don't feel that way. Same thing goes with men, vice versa.
He shouldn't have watched it.
@@theofficialvernetheturtley338he’s just a misogynist himself dude it’s clear he’s one of those alt right dude ROS who hate female characters
@@welldave8598 Maybe so. It's almost like he secretly likes it but doesn't want to accept it. I didn't watch She Hulk because I knew, as a dude, I wouldn't be able to relate to it.
But I'm fine with having female centered movies. I just don't watch them. It's bizarre behavior.
@@theofficialvernetheturtley338 I sincerely don't understand what's so bizarre about watching something with an unrelatable protagonist? I can't relate to most male protagonists in movies but the stories teach you how to empathize with them anyway? Because they're people, and that's what stories do. Like, how are you supposed to learn about different types of people and their struggles if you don't consume stories about them? If you don't listen to their stories? Stories teach you how to empathize and relate to others and their lives, they allow you to vicariously experience a life you've never lived. Is that not incredible? Don't you wonder about what women are like? How they talk to each other, how they support each other, how they navigate their lives? Their struggles and their strengths? I've heard so many men complain about the "inscrutable minds of women" and I've never understood it. They're just people! Do these guys understand what goes on in the minds of all men? I highly doubt it.
I'm not saying watch She-Hulk---I haven't myself, and I have no opinion on it---but stories about women by women, yes. Women have enjoyed stories about and by men for forever, it's about time they get to tell their own. And this expands into other territories as well, like, eg. watching foreign films.
Anyway, I want to add that I'm not attacking you or anything. I was just struck by the bizarre nature of your comment and wanted to share my thoughts in this public space I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I apologize that it's a little unpolished (and that it's responding to a comment you made an entire year ago) but it's 1AM and I'm actually supposed to be sleeping lol
I feel like the undertone is more "...because misogyny is correct in the real world"
"They don't do anything all that bad"
Bro they literally do the one cliche shows and movies use all the time to tell you "these guys are bad".
What cliché is that? Also you know that using a cliché isn't necessarily bad. If it were they wouldn't have become cliché.
@@TheRenegadeMonk OP here is criticizing the take, not the use of the cliche
@@noelleholiday61 how so?
@@TheRenegadeMonk By pointing out the use of the cliche, they are drawing attention to the take's utter inanity
@@TheRenegadeMonk OP's point is that they are doing something so bad that it's almost a cliche to show that someone is bad, therefore the statement by TCD that "they didn't do anything all that bad" is ludicrious
Thank you for providing a counter argument and criticism to his video. I think it's healthy for passionate TH-camrs to have different opinions and think of things the other wouldn't (however right or wrong), and it's healthy for us, the viewers to hear multiple different views and shape nuanced, 3-dimensional understanding in our heads
Y’know, expectations are funny, in that if you go in expecting something to be crap you’re generally more likely to say that it is.
this is exactly why I can't trust any reviewer who uses the word woke regularly in their vocabulary. It just tells me they have a biased worldview and can't view situations free of said bias.
The negativity surrounding the choice of the last Doctor before the episodes were even produced really hurt my enjoyment of her first season.
I stopped watching channels that looked hyperbolically negative from then on and was able to enjoy that season a lot more a year later.
It’s like the toxicity seeps into your subconscious and poisons the well. And it seems a certain segment of society is perennially toxic nowadays.
It got so bad that for a number of years I pretty much stopped saying I was a fan of things. I was actually enjoying the things I liked. Apparently being a fan meant hating every new thing and declaring it dead.
And I just facepalm any time I hear someone complaining that Star Trek has suddenly become woke. It was probably one of the most “woke” shows on TV when it aired the first episode. I don’t get how they don’t know that.
@@zemoxian you should probably keep not calling yourself a fan of anything as you clearly don’t seem to understand most of the things you say you’re a fan of.
Unless its good. Like andor. A lot of people went into andor expecting another shit show and got positivley aurprised to the point there are hindreds of videos talking about how good it is…
@@conormurphy4328
What exactly do you think I don’t understand?
The Drinker isn't proposing a random hypothetical with the Bruce/blood transfusion storyline. He's describing She-Hulk's comic book origin.
which sucked donkey balls
True, but The Drinker does nothing to make that clear either.
You really think CD knows shit about comics enough for that to be on purpose?
@@tylerleach8796 I know the scene they’re talking about and I’ve never read a hulk comic in my life, so it’s possible.
I think in the MCU, Banner knowing what he knows would never deliberately give his blood to anyone, he knows how dangerous it can be. So I'm fine with this scene, happening by accident.
People also forget Carol blows up a jukebox just to prove her point to fury.
Also as an aside, am I the only one who got that Carol being told she was too "emotional" when she clearly WASN'T was a clear indication of the Gas Lighting the Kree were doing?
A few ppl, mostly women, used that scene as an example on the manipulation she ensured in their response/review videos back when the movie came out.
Good on you for seeing it though!
Same for her being egotistical at points. She's coming from a culture that told her she is superior to everyone else in the galaxy, of course she's gonna act that way. Her entire arc was her learning that acting that way is wrong. But somehow a lot of people left the movie thinking the theme was that's how people should act and that Carol (and by extension Brie) was good because she was so narcissistic
Edit: I just got to the part of the video where TSD says a lot of the same stuff I said, but I think he said it better
@@jpyanity443 Carol still has no personality whatsoever i remember just trying to enjoy this movie and just regretting it
Okay but why do they need to gaslight her into believing that she over emotional?
@@seyio1717 Being compassionate, empathetic, having sly dry humor, etc. aren't personality traits? and don't you simp for misogynist drinker?
I remember watching Critical Drinker’s video about The Last Jedi when he compared it to Tremors and thinking “wow, that was a sick burn.”
He is occasionally capable of positive reviews like with Everything, Everywhere, All at Once and The Whale.
There is some pretty blatant misogyny there sometimes and some racism. Like he did make some good critiques about Rings of Power, but then had to go off on diversity in the casting. The actors weren’t the problem with the show (there was too much set up with too little or very weak payoff.
His critique of season 3 of Stranger Things really had misogyny. Personally, I felt that season 3 is the weakest because it focuses more on tropes like malls and evil Russians as well as generic relationship drama rather than building on the previous two seasons, therefore there was crapping on previous character growth and lots of characters felt jarring because they lost previous emotional maturity.
Anyway Critical Drinker got triggered because Robin was smarter than Steve. The previous two seasons showed that Steve wasn’t a great student. Let’s ignore the fact that Dustin is also smarter than Steve and Steve isn’t portrayed as useless. He figured out that the signal was coming from the mall because he recognized the music. But oh, no a girl who was also a lesbian had more book smarts, so obviously it’s part of the woke agenda.
Then, he, like so many accused Max of sabotaging Mike and El. Let’s ignore the fact that Mike was being obsessed and possessive of El, as was Hopper because they were both insecure. Let’s ignore the fact that Hopper made Mike lie to El then obnoxiously celebrated when she was upset. Let’s ignore that despite the fact that Mike was an absolute jerk to Max when she was new in town, Max didn’t say anything bad about him or their relationship until El went to her upset. Nope, Mike’s relationship troubles were all Max’s fault and he and Hopper aren’t in any way responsible for their own crappy behavior.
Anyway, I enjoyed She Hulk.
About his restructuring of the origin, the thing is, that's her origin in the comics, and it was Bruce who had the agency there. If they did that here, it also becomes Bruce's fault that she's she hulk, where in the show, they frame the whole thing as an accident.
It doesn't make sense in the MCU either. In the comic Bruce had no idea he was gonna give Jen powers, he barely understood his condition; in the MCU he has studied himself, he'd known better than to give blood to people, it had to change
@@MakiPcr it still doesn't make sense
@@MakiPcr I think it makes it even more interesting. Either he gives her his blood or she dies. That sets up a very interesting moral question.
@@akwilson1676 Yeah but not for Jen. It's all about Bruce in that scenario. Bruce's guilt for making Jen a Hulk was something that came much later than her origin in the comics.
@@rikudoubapeck It's pretty much the same for Jen either way cause she doesn't have a say in this. Still I prefer the guilt trip more than just spilling his blood on her arms that's just boring.
I'm from the future where I've just finished your Glass Onion video and wanted to see some of your other takes before subbing. This is the video that's done it for me. I'm going to watch the Toxic one next but this video is the sort of coherent and intelligent media criticism I need more of in my life.
Now admittedly, I do have my own problems with She-Hulk- probably biased, as I've never been much of a fan of the character anyway, but I also found it somewhat tonally weird for where the MCU was at that point. I also definitely prefer the comic explanations for some things, like why Bruce's hulk is a separate entity and Jen's isn't.
However, Critical Drinker's review feels like he didn't pay attention to the show at ALL, or like he watched it on fast-forward. Most of his points are not good points. If you don't want to watch a show, that's fine, don't watch it. But if you're going to watch something to review it, I expect you to actually take note of what is going on.
When CD says those guys didn't do anything all that bad, and that they were harassing her, that's him admitting he thinks harassing women is just fine. It's not something he's ever had to deal with, so it can't possibly be an actual problem. It's okay that women should make up some lie about a boyfriend coming to pick them up, just so they wouldn't get assaulted. At least in this instance, because I'd bet money that there are other times when he'd berate women for lying and being untrusting towards men.
Say what you want about the show, or CDs take on it. THAT part was really telling .
Oh yeah no that’s like gotta be the biggest and most obvious red flag towards his anti-feminism lmao
No I think the writing for episode one is far worst than anything anyone could make, critical drinkers story is the one from the comics and get this comics book fans love. There’s a reason She-Hulk tanked. It’s because of bad writing
You didn’t watch the video
The Critical Drinker hates women who overshadow men. He'd do everything to make every woman subservient if he could
He didn't exactly make that clear though
THANK YOU for sharing this!!! It's becoming harder and harder to avoid alt-right & alt-lite geek TH-camrs (unless they put something obvious in their titles, like calling anything "woke"). I'd love to have a straight up list of all of them so when I come across a new channel I could just check it and not have to be subjected to a bunch of misogyny and hatred. (I get enough of that just existing in the world as a female game dev.) At least now I know to steer clear of this guy and that "geek + gamer" channel.
I'd stay away from Nerdrotic and The Quartering as well.
I find this is the big issue with 'critique' videos like The Critical Drinker, he doesn't need to do any analysis he needs to say bad things about the bad woke show the right crowd hates right now and get his youtube views. It's low effort because it was never meant to be anything else. Make a lazy CinemaSins style video pretending to be serious that takes maybe an hour than make a new one tomorrow about the next chud target. Profit.
That is literally what all kf these haters do
Critical drinker isn't a critique though. He's a movie reviewer, he puts out a video on recent stuff and people who have movie/show tastes that allign with his trust his recommendations. He doesn't do any actual analysis work because that's not his job. He doesn't make critiques, he doesn't make analysis, he doesn't make retrospectives, he just makes first impressions A.K.A reviews. Now do I agree with him? It depends. Does he present his work like he should? Fuck no and he's not the only one, plenty of reviewers act like they do analysis/critique work when that is neither their job nor would they be very good at it if it was.
You have no idea how much I appreciate your input. You consistently call out behaviors/attitudes that normalize ignoring the voices of traditionally underrepresented groups. As someone who loves superheroes and Star wars it's refreshing knowing that the community does have people that think outside of the hateful bubble.
Criticising something=Hate
This is the pattern of accusations i am seeing here but ignore all the valid criticism
I don't agree in every way but you took a few things he said out of context. He is not saying that her anger is not valid, he is saying that she does not control her anger like she is saying she does. She almost kills those guys for catcalling her.
yeah, i think that's the point, that Jen is flawed, and not self-aware
@@LeoBladini the show never even hints that what she does is wrong and repeatedly affirms that she's amazing just the way she is with no improvement. In other words you are making excuses for the writers. On accident or on purpose.
@@samuelspringer8236 i thought it was obvious. i mean, she did said "Bruce was wrong, and I was right, and i'll never have to be a Hulk" then the next scene is literally she Hulking out. kind of a metaphor to the fact that she's not always right
@@LeoBladini I don't have the energy to continue this debate. Thanks for letting it be a respectable debate.
The issue is execution. It always is. They're trying to relate that Jen isn't Bruce, and so things won't be the same for her as for him, but in execution it only relates to most that she's better than him, not because she's different, but because she's a woman. That's the problem with this scene, primarily. The other text/subtext is good, and the show is pretty decent, but this problem exists in every episode. Men are perpetually depicted in rather unsavory ways that simply aren't realistic, they're either sleezy, dumb and self absorbed, or... That thing they turned Mr. Immortal into... and especially both of the contrived bar scenes. Nikki is brilliant though, I love her. Also let's not forget that a large portion of this show doesn't even believe in itself. Very little lawyering happens, but she constantly reminds you it's a fun lawyer show, after Bruce, we get Wong twice, and here recently a tease of DareDevil, and the mandatory wedding episode, it feels like they're just doing girl things because Jen is a girl, and then using cameos and teasers to carry itself as a show. Everything is about her being a her. The character and source material is so much more than that, so why is this all we get? Where's her SMASHING?!?! All we get is her... smashing... oh, and yet another example, this man is then portrayed as shallow and not into her, and if that wasn't enough, enter Josh.
She-Hulk was a situation where I nearly had something I quite like ruined by the internet. My viewing experience of the most recent episode was tainted by thoughts about what scenes other people would have issues with, stuff that normally wouldn’t bother me at all. I couldn’t help but think there was something wrong with me, that I liked something that everyone agrees is objectively wrong. It was getting to the point that I was considering quitting the show, not because I didn’t like the show itself, but because I didn’t enjoy the viewing experience.
But then Nando V Movies put out a video last week and now with this video, seeing two people who’s opinions I really respect telling me that the hate for She-Hulk isn’t unanimous, has made me feel so much better
Nando actually dropped into this vid’s live premiere!! Starstruck 🤩
Yeah bro you just gotta learn how to ignore hateful opinions and like wat you like unapologetically
Have you considered that, from a particular point of view, BOTH are correct :P
@@giosbizarreart9048 what do you consider as hateful opinion tho when a MAN Hates on WOMAN or When a WOMAN Hates on MAN
Honestly both can be right, with their respective biases and all
I don't know if She-Hulk is actually "dangerous" like Mulan 2020
That one apparently teaches your daughter the wrong lesson
"You are special and don't need to put any effort to succeed"
Someone said on Twitter that She-Hulk is unique in that she’s a woman character who is in on the joke of the male gaze and I haven’t stopped thinking about it
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about
What
You mean you actually started thinking?
Did you mean in on the joke?
@@basedchimera5859 is that not what I wrote?
I can tell if it bad criticism by seeing if they blame something is “woke” inspired by something people are outraged by something else or China this is why I created the list.
You understood nothing
@@seyio1717 Indeed, you did not.
@@seyio1717 Pot meet kettle.
I think Critical Drinker’s Critical mistake is looking at it under a tinted set of glasses. However I think you’re kinda doing the same thing to him, along with the series itself. You’re basically saying that “it’s subjective, but also you’re wrong.” You’ve also said you’re own feelings on The drinker and his intentions were likely negative in one of the replies in this comment section.
As for the infamous scene where She hulk talks down to Bruce, the problem is the key words “infinitely more than you.” This isn’t just saying she has it different, she’s straight up claiming she’s superior, so even if it isn’t “feminist propaganda” or whatever the hell the alt right nuts call it, it’s still a dick move. Also subverting expectations doesn’t always equal good. It can and has been fucked up.
Also almost the entire third of this video equates to the whole “Sorry incels, this show isn’t for you” picture they posted. Since is a sitcom, you never said why it specifically works as one. In fact you haven’t really talked about the comedy much here. Also those personal jabs at him for taking personal jabs at the show’s creators just proves my point in the first paragraph even more. Even if you do make a lot of good points, you’re still hurting your own argument. Also Im not even right wing, I have a lot of progressive opinions so I’m not even being entirely politically motivated here. I just vehemently despise hypocrisy.
I’ll wait for if and how The drinker responds to expand on my opinion more. He might do the same thing, idk.
Agreed, the "infinitely more than you" line along with her delivery made her character instantly unlikeable to me and undermined her point of how awesome she is at controlling her anger
But you're doing the exact same thing PoG accuses TCD of doing: taking small moments out of context as proof of poor writing.
Jen's outburst is just that: an outburst. Yes she has an overall point of facing harassment and being looked down upon as a woman in the corporate world. But at this point she's also angry and frustrated because she's been thrust into a completely unwanted situation, and may potentially lose the one thing she truly loves doing in her job. She is being mean AND making a legitimate point about what makes her different from Bruce.
Also, PoG isn't obligated to talk about why She-Hulk works as a sitcom or why it's a good show because that isn't the thesis of this video. This is a critique of TCD's She-Hulk video, so he's allowed to attack the video and TCD's points in the same manner.
I'm not even sure how you got "Sorry incels, this show isn't for you" from this video (which by the way, should not be a controversial statement to make). PoG's entire point of this video is that TCD isn't good at critique, writing and analysis because he cannot understand proper context of a scene and his preconceived notions about She-Hulk affected his ability to be good at those things.
@@kelechiihebuzor9055 PoG is literally self contradictory with his criticisms tho
Here's HOPING he has more than petulance!!
"Nobidy liked her" - well I liked her
She's an unsympathetic character - well SIMPathised with her
Some guys talk to Jen
SEE, SHE WAS SEXUALLY HARRASSED BUT CONTROLLED HER... oh wait, Hulk stopped her from murdering them
Beta perves and their fetish for giant green women...
@@kelechiihebuzor9055 SHE SUCKS ZT HER JOB!!
And hates doing it.
Unless she can use it to dismiss a guy chatting her up in a bar
"It's so hard dating in your 30s"
WHAT GREAT LIFE WHERE?!!
One thing I wanna see is some villains pose a large threat to jen not like the wrecking crew or titania but someone who pushes her to her limit like alien Nackle and black king from ultraman ace or green goblin
Sooo like what happened in the last episode?
@@Theokal3 nothing much tbh.
Josh who was introduce ep 6 was a bad guy (what a surprise! When men r all portray as bad/dumb) shows a video abt jen in gala.
And daredevil fighting jen and crooks and they banged.
I think that's gonna be saved for her movie appearances. This tv show is just a little intro to her origins, her greatest highlights will happen on the big screen.
@@yugiwinninglex Bruce, Daredevil, Wong, Pug, her boss and Jen's dad have all been portrayed as bad and dumb?
@@tasha7726 her dad is the only one that's portrayed as nice and not dumb (though calling her transformation a green suit is kinda)
This comment was before daredevil came out and there's no way daredevil wld do walk of shame in the morning if his smart cause he has a lot of enemies. But he was written as smarter than jenn so that's a plus.
Her boss was portrayed as bad (not in the Villian sense) like wanting to listen to her and etc.
Wong 100% yes. Too many things wrong with his character. Showing up in court when his a wanted men cause he helped abomination escaped once. Going to she hulk for help to deal with demons and for lawsuit about magical laws that does not exist etc.
Bruce potrayer was bad, like having him admit jenn is right or jenn is better (which she's not). And also he suppose to be smart (not just smart but few smartest ppl in marvel) so he shld have done the blood test with his relative long ago.
Not idea who pug is.cant be bother to rmb.
So I think it's fine to disagree with Drinker, I don't think he's the bible on cinema opinions but I really disagree with the method with which you grounded *your* argument in.
A lot of your points are based on the idea that drinker "missed" critical (huehue) aspects of the episode, or that he's criticizing things based on a preconceived notion of a show that "doesn't exist" (your words).
The fact of the matter is She-Hulk has existed for a long time in another form of media, and presumably this show is meant to cater to fans of that character or just Marvel comics in general.
It is *impossible* to separate the source material from this show, and the discrepancy between this show and the comics is incredibly noticeable, they are inextricably linked, and I think Drinker is critiquing the show from that perspective, which is demonstrated by him using the original She Hulk origin as his proposed alternative to what the show did. It was simply better writing to have kept it to the source material, which is the criticism in and of itself. You say "he's only seen one episode!", as if this show birthed She-Hulk, and in my opinion, that seems like a very unnecessary level of blind-eye-syndrome or handwaving.
Yes, it may be ep1 of the MCU version of she hulk, but this is a character with an extensive history that the show is ideally attempting to live up to and respect.
Most criticism I've seen about this show is often contrasting it's failures against the comics version.
Your interpretation is fine as a person who maybe has 0 exposure to any other version of she hulk, but please recognize that your critique of other criticisms can feel a bit surface level as a result.
no that's stupid, comics and shows are different things.
@@nalday2534 They are different things, but without the comics this show wouldnt even exist. Therfore they are linked🤦🏾♂️
@@angryhead7728 fuck no, every media should be able to stand on it's own. Just because it's an adaptation doesn't mean it should automatically get a pass or be criticised to pieces based on how much it co-relates to the source material. Judge the show based on it's own merits. It's how sane folks consume art but i wouldn't expect misogynistic drinker apologists to know that.
The origin that Critical Drinker suggests is her actual origin from the comics.
I’m aware. It’s still a worse fit for the first episode of a standalone She-Hulk show.
@@PillarofGarbage nope your opinion is wrong
@@PillarofGarbage , Complaining about the opinion of others and still claiming your opinions are correct. What happened to agree to disagree?
@@PillarofGarbage it's still her character's origin and it's not just some hypothetical that Drinker pulled out of his ass. Whether it's a worse fit is subjective (oh by the way you did that thing Drinker did where you act like your thoughts and feelings about something are gospel) and I'm sure they could've worked the scene so that it fit the show while staying faithful to the comics. Hell if they wanted to stick with Jen coming to terms with her new powers they could've added a layer of resentment to Bruce because he forced this on her and now she's dealing with these powers that she never wanted being forced on her by her cousin. It's a legitimate criticism that the show made such a drastic deviation from the comics regarding a character's origin. It'd be like if Aunt May were the one to die instead of Uncle Ben. Sure functionality the story is the same but it's an unnecessary deviation that a lot of people would reasonably take issue with
@@PillarofGarbage skill issue
It's pretty telling that TCD thinks rebuffing sexual harassment like it's become a habit is equivalent to that sexual harassment no longer being a problem.
Umm no that’s what he was getting at.
@@rathofturkey what is he getting at then?
@@itcouldbelupus2842 he doesn't know, probably as unaware as his pseudointellectually drunk Scottish ass
@@rathofturkey that's what the comment meant
Im pretty sure if in every male lead movie or tv show, they portrayed women as being gold diggers or playing the victim card to dodge accountability, it would get frustrating to a lot of people and they would call it out.
I used to be a huge fan of Drinker, but eventually, I realized every "review" was just seeking out things to interpret in the worst way & caught on to the formula.
I still watched for a while, but everything became "Confirm My Biases - The Video!" and I had to stop.
To me, what makes a character hyping up another character as an example of bad writing is when we don't actually get to see those qualities being displayed or in some cases, subverted. For the latter this is mainly in the case of an antagonist. Like Gaston in Disneys Beauty and the Beast. His sidekick hypes him up to be this gigachad of a dude. This, 'alpha male' per say. But those qualities are actually toxic. Even in the animated film that was the point of the Gaston song scene. In truth Gaston was a beast on the inside, while the actual Beast was only one on the outside. Which is why Belle fell in love with the Beast and not Gaston. Meanwhile I would find a case of Ayra hyping up her sister Sansa in season 7 of GoT to be a bit lackluster. While it does show that Ayra has come around to respect and admire her older sister, which is a big contrast to their relationship at the start of the show. We don't really get to see Sansa perform to those standards afterwards. Most of Sansa's, Ayras and Bran's scheming behind Littlefinger happens offscreen.
Now I haven't watched She-Hulk yet, I might get around to it at some point so I can't judge the show to those standards.
Nice contrast on your part. And yeah, GoT's Seventh Season wasn't great overall, unfortunately. Still better than the last season though.
Another point you missed, it's still bad if a character is hyped up and does display the hyped up traits, but only due to the ineptitude of the script. IE, Jenn is hyped up as a great lawyer, but only performs great lawyer feats in the show because the writers know absolutely fuck all about law. She demonstrates the hyped up traits, but because those traits are only successfully implemented through the script bending beyond all logic and reason, it's shallow and lazy.
Thanks for the input. It was thoughtful. I sometimes forget how good the hype man effect was on Gaston
the problem with the episode is that she hulk never has any internal struggle that is clearly shown in the performance. the show doesn’t give her the time to give the audience a nuanced look into how she feels or how she comes to the conclusions she does. instead we get pulled along from event to event as the writers have predetermined. there’s nothing wrong with the character choices she makes like CD claims - really the problem is that we don’t see the progression to why the choices are made.
I think that's because this current episode 1 wasn't intended to be the first episode originally, but later on in the show. I guess they made it the first episode so her growth through the show is more linear, and because the final two episodes directly call back to mistakes she made in this episode. But I agree, I felt like as a stand-alone episode it wasn't a good intro to her character, it doesn't represent well the emotional depth she gets in the rest of the show - which I'm glad I stuck around for despite ep 1 not resonating with me. I hope actual sincere critiques of the show come out more so people will actually give the show an honest chance, not just judge the whole over a single scheduling issue.
She literally states out loud that the internal struggle of the show is her desire to succeed and be taken seriously as a trial lawyer, the thing she burned all that money on to get a law degree for, verses her new responsibilities as a powered individual, the thing that happened to her by accident and threw all her plans and part of her life out the window.
It's fairly obvious. More people would see it if media literacy wasn't dead.
@@CitanulsPumpkin damn thats some weak internal struggle. I want to be better at my job…
@@TheBusbyBabes Personal Life & Life Goals the character set for themselves vs. the unbearable weight of responsibility that comes with unexpected power.
It's literally the exact same internal struggle as Spiderman. The only difference is that where Peter Parker just wants to bang pretty girls, but can't because great responsibility; Jen Walters wants people to take her seriously as a person, but can't because giant green rage monster/famous cousin.
@@CitanulsPumpkin damn wish my entire life struggle was feeling insecure about being a female lawyer making $200k a year and having the ability to turn into an indestructible 7 foot tall super hero. It must be horrible for her 🥺
saying someone who owns a button that can transform themself into a god with zero consequences but only cares about their human lawyer job is incredibly deep and good writing when it’s laughable.
So as someone who doesn't often watch Drinker, can someone ask me why he talks that way? I mean, this feels like a personal attack, but this video reminded me of why I gave up trying to listen to him, he puts this weird pressure on the last word of every sentence that just feels really... Articifical. Like he's trying to sound tougher and more firm and serious than he is, or something.
The part where Loki tells Sylvie how great she is isn't just about Loki's character development, it's about showing Sylvie a view of herself from the eyes of someone else who admires her, when she's never admired herself. It's a moment of growth for both Loki and Sylvie because Sylvie begins to realise she's not the irredeemable person she always believed she was.
Talking about the training scene:
From what I gathered, Bruce is trying to demonstrate to Jen how to restrain one's self when in Hulk form. How easy it is to throw boulders, create shockwaves, make tremors; how simple it is to be destructive as the Hulk, something Bruce has worried about since the first Avengers movie, and I'm sure he's concerned about all the time. Jen seems to be more interested in seeing what she is now physically capable of in this new form. And that's understandable; I'm sure any of us would wanna test our limits if we were granted new abilities. Hell, it's already a pretty common trope in fictional media to have some sort of montage of the protagonist jumping over 5 story buildings or running down the street at 100 mph.
My point is, the training scene, and even the entire Mexico part of the episode, isn't supposed to be seen as a "who's better than who, men or women" deal like weird man-children think it is; it's supposed to show the level of restraint Bruce takes when navigating the world as the Hulk, him trying to impart that knowledge onto Jen, and just demonstrate their familial relationship. They tease, they argue, but they care about each other, like any close family should.
I just want to start by saying I think both sides has the fault both CD and you.
Regarding Bruce and Jen contest: I think CD shouldn't have displayed the thing the way he did, as it slightly misinform people unless you watch the episode. However I don't consider Jen actions as "playful". Bruce is earnestly trying to help her and she is constantly trying to make it a contest ignoring her cousin frustrations. When he push her off a cliff, he know she will be fine but Jen then say he a jerk for doing this despite her being more at fault.
Regarding the scene: You are right that CD and other people shouldn't expect the same comic She Hulk but the scene biggest problem is the last part. "better than you." this scene is hard to defend because it makes good points but also contridicte them as well. Jen is cat called in the street and how she react isn't how she say she normally react infact she let off the anger rather quickly resulting in Bruce having to take her down fast. This scene break character to say something the writer wish to express rather than actually show through the actual scenes. As thus Jen becomes a figure head for the writer which isn't good writing when it can be scene as such.
Regarding the opening statement: I feel your interpretation is a bit too much into believing Jen is a naturally good person. The scene is more saying "do one have to do good if they have the ability to?". CD is wrong that it doesn't explain much of Jen but I feel you're wrong in thinking Jen is an audruistic person. Not using later episodes as examples; in every situation where Jen is given the choice to do good, Bruce offer her to be a hero, Taking the high road when it come to Bruce training and even beating up Titania; she show resistence and refusal till her hand is forced. My guess was the trial was to defend a witness who could have done something but refused to.
Regarding being a hulk vs being a lawyer arguement: This is just flat out wrong, Jen being a Lawyer in this show hasn't really matter much. Rather it been an arguement who to value more Jen or She Hulk but Jen need to realize that they are both her and she can enjoy both rather than battle with it. Jen has 3 cases in the 7 episodes, first one was a mistrial due to favorable jury, second one won legit, and third case was settle outside of court with a threat. Notice how little cases she won through legit means or with her skills as a laywer.
Regarding hypeman: There is equal arguement here for whether or not having a hype man for the protagonist is good writing. Usually a hype man is given to a villain, to show a wall of greatness vs the protagonist or to remind you how far the protagonist has gone/unique position they have however there very little need for hype mans for the long run and but if they are they do establish their own smaller characters traits in the beginning to branch off. With Nikki they don't show that and all she ever does is push Jen into situation aka a plot device.
Regarding Female empowerment: I feel this is ignorant of the point of what empowerment is and why people grown tired of it. Empowerment is the act of showing off how strong you are but it isn't the act of putting others down. Dennis is a strawman to just constantly poke out but the problem is every man is an antagonist in this episode and there isn't one supportive male character to Jen struggles(Bruce is an antagonist by the term of being against what the protagonist want.). Often saying "men don't have to go through this." but why not point out the harsh things men still get chewed out on or aren't allowed to do. While I know it's a different Jen from the comics, Jen has always been a fair person to both side of any arguement and stand for true equality and justice.
Regarding TSD Car: I actually agree with most of what TSD says except for one thing being who pulls who out. CD is mainly wrong about the whole scene but it should be Bruce to pull Jen out the car as for 1 Jen is driving and is more likely to get knocked out and 2 Bruce has been in worse situation where he hasn't been knocked out where as Jen hasn't. There nothing wrong with giving another character a small amount of agency because the mcu is more meant to give off this natural world not be as contrieve as fiction.
Regarding Sitcom: I feel there is a point that this show isn't meant to be your drama action show like most shows marvel projects..... but this episode doesn't present itself as a sitcom till the end of the episode, for most of the episode present itself as straight and similar to other marvel movies. As such the defense "its a sitcom" doesn't work here. But also sitcom do have darker scenes even in the first episode, the reason being is that they want you to first and formost get into the character head and know what they naturally deal with before the rest of the show changes their life. This episode barely shows us that rather mostly show us Jen dealing with being the hulk which is usually put in the second episode of the character realizing their change. The first episode tend to introduce the new element in a character life but it shows it first in a small effect.
It did fail in my opinion but not because of anything "woke"
Agreed. It does have serious problems, such as a lack of a clear direction, but woke isn't the problem.
@TexasRanger877 thats not really woke in my opinion but I understand what you mean it did push that toxic feminity allot.
@TexasRanger877 I see woke as more like one day you realise all dreams you work to achieve your dreams are actually for others benifit not yours. For example a qoute from the late Bill Hicks
"If you want to understand a society, take a good look at the drugs it uses. And what can this tell you about American culture? Well, look at the drugs we use. Except for pharmaceutical poison, there are essentially only two drugs that Western civilization tolerates: Caffeine from Monday to Friday to energize you enough to make you a productive member of society, and alcohol from Friday to Monday to keep you too stupid to figure out the prison that you are living in." Thats being woke in my opinon
While I usually appreciate different perspectives on a subject, you can't really blame Drinker for constructing his own narrative in his video if you are doing the same thing. I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not, but this video essay contains many factual errors, untruths and even some techniques which are in psychology considered to be quite manipulative.
PoG does this on purpose because it doesn't suit his narrative.
He did with the star wars community calling them racist over a collage but didn't understand the context of the situation with her saying there hasn't been any people of colour in star wars, admits she never watched the movies then only watched the prequels when she was hired. A minority of the community might be racist but nowhere near all of it. Then look at his an altright youtuber stole my content(referring to smud boy doing a stream on said star wars video and pointing out his errors), never once explained how he is altright, admitted it feel under fair use along with not explaininghow he stole it, got made over them making a joke about his latte and not forget the all might of PoG doxxing himself.
I like a criticism of the drinker because I would like him to tone down the attacks on wokeism but yes the drinker interprets it in the worst way and pog in the best possessible way.
@@Foggfjw That's perfectly fine - hell, I think we all should judge the media mainly on its objective quality, rather than subjective opinions.
@@ashdnorman8670
Wait, this is juicy. How did he dox himself lol? That requires next-level stupidity.
@@ngultrum1 search an altright youtuber stole my content.
One of the best videos I've seen on TH-cam. New favourite channel.
I think your point is fair when you praise his ideas but acknowledge they wouldn’t really fit with the incredibly light hearted tone
Honestly, people who put -drinker in their title tend to be assholes. At least I can't think of counter examples. Also, and not for nothing.... I like bourbon too, but good golly man, you're where the name Scotch *comes from*. Get yourself a nice single malt!
Joking aside, I came across a video of his a while ago.... on Andor maybe? And was nodding along for a while until he started in on Kathleen Kennedy. I know some people who have very good critiques of her, but idk, I could intuit contempt there that went beyond just 'I think she makes poor choices as a producer.'
Also, the whole throwing a boulder thing is so dishonest. Yes, Jen hurls a boulder farther. But then we see Bruce just practically launch a boulder FAR farther.
Show me a video of two guys who've never read the She-Hulk comics. The show deliberately changed the original comic origin of Bruce saving Jen because they didn't want their female lead looking less superior to men. Any true fan of the comics would know that the comic origin was the superior version and even with that "drama", she was still humorous. Good writing like that will never appear on this show, no matter how much Social Justice Kool-aid you drink.
They didn't do a good job selling the show as a sitcom, they sold it as another MCU title.
No, they literally didn’t.
@@johnywaking2757 strong argument there to disagree
@@TheGameianDark If a person doesn't give any points as to why they think something, why does anyone need to give any points as to why they disagree?
An MCU title can be literally any genre. Thats part of what makes the mcu universe great.
The easiest way of critiquing she hulk is bringing up all the better alternatives.
The good place
Agent Carter
Agents of shield
Daredevil
Jessica jones
Atlanta
Community
Each of the shows I listed here are all better at doing what she hulk is trying to do. Jessica jones and agents may are jerks. But its because of their past trauma. What's she hulk excuse. Agent Carter had to deal with male jerks in the workplace because that show portrayed 1950s women reentering the work place after WW2. Agents of shield is absolutely hilarious and has a ton of badass women without it hitting you in the face with it. They are just badass but happen to be female. Atlanta and community and the good place are all better sitcoms and are actually funny.
And finally Daredevil is able to hide how bad of a lawyer show it is by at least being a good drama
Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
I see the she hulk scripts as being something that should have been baked in the oven a little bit longer. I loved episode 7 the most. So thats fun. But the show is clearly a slice of life romantic comedy with superhero law stuff on the sidelines.
If they advertised it as slice of life I think it may have been received better.
I'm going to add Netflix's Partner Track to the list of shows that dud it better and, according to an interview with Jessica Gao, the show *is* supposed to be a slice of life. I would have believed her if the show had started with Episode 4.
The fact that theyr better shows at its genre doenst mean the show is a piece of shit as you bunch of incels say. The show is at the level of the most mcu products, and the mcu has never been top tier in nothing. So dont be that condescendt and deal with the fact that the show is GOOD, its not perfect, at all, but is miles far from being some of the worst mcu things, bc its just not. Me as a comic book fan, am satisfied with this, if its as good as community for example then i could be even happier, but for me this is the least.
Yeaaaah, personally I didn't think She-Hulk was a jerk. In fact I find her more likable than Jessica Jones in some aspects. Don't get me wrong, Jessica is a good character, but at times her jerkassery reaches extremes I find a bit annoying.
@@Theokal3 Jessica is outright a bad person by normal people standards, she leans into her trauma and excuses her shitty choices.
It is clear you have never watched Atlanta, I guess you just wanted included a Black show. Atlanta is a surreal satire about Black life, fame and manhood with horror elements. It is far from a sitcom.
Exactly my thoughts, The Critical Drinker has honestly been nothing but a sleaze bag in the past recent months,you can tell his bias shows more and more. Of course his yes man are gonna be quick to defend his takes because...they can't think properly.
The plot point at around the 20 minute mark was also what happened in the comic. Drinker is just passing off the comics like they were his idea.
Want a Writer/Director who strokes his ego? Look at ZACK SNYDER!
YUP! FINALLY SOMEONE SAYS IT
Zack Snyder and his stupid fans can go to hell for all i care but doesn't change the fact that people at the mcu are acting like 12 year old child
*Russo Brothers & Taika Waititi
those hacks are more like it
I agree
@@nalday2534 both can be true
My decision to stop watching the critical drinker 4 years ago has been the best decision I’ve ever made for my brain cells. I get that people have a right to a opinion but honestly it ironically kinda feels like he’s pushing a agenda
Oh Loki is the protagonist? The guy who got emasculated the whole season? The God of mischief who was killing people 2 days ago in New York suddenly has a change of heart and falls in love.
Please, if anything he should have had a very slow character progression towards good.
Your opinions about Loki’s arc don’t change the fact that, structurally speaking, Loki is the protagonist of Loki.
There is definitely a schrödinger’s man element in TCD and other’s critiques. “Man” is criticised for being depicted as blatantly evil but also defended as being unduly despised or belittled by the female lead at the same time. It can’t be both of course.
Ah, more thoughtful voices are finally emerging to offer discourse on the state of the recent discourse. I have been waiting for this!
No.
You think this is thoughtful 🤣
@@seyio1717 Yes.
@@ouchcomma What YES ?
I will gladly have all theses channels obliterated if it meant more E;R.
Korra Ch. 3 pt 2 cannot come out soon enough.
I remember early videos of the drinker when he was normal and funny. I don't know what's worse - that he's become an alt-right mouthpiece, or that he plays that role because it's profitable?
I've seen this happen to Russel Brand too 😢
A lot of people are lacking critikal media literacy. Instead of putting themselves inside the character's shoes they act like one of those guys like "well I would've done....." not every character is you. They have their own story.
I don't want to say anything negative about Mr. Drinker, but I recently stopped watching his movie reviews because in the last one I watched (about Ghostbusters '16) he commented that he thought it was silly that all the discourse about how bad the movie is was flattened into antiwoman sh*tposting, said that that was not going to be his argument about how bad the movie was, then proceeded to make points about how the movie pandered to women (blah, blah blah...) I thought this was SUCH bad criticism that I closed the video and unsubscribed. I still have the video saved in my watch later list. I want to try to watch it again later and possibly resubscribe to his channel but it just left a super bad taste in my mouth.
Y’know I do like some of the things the critical drinker, but there are some VERY valid points here in regards to his critique of the She-Hulk show. There’s a reason why I’m still watching the show, and that’s because I can’t properly judge something if I haven’t even finished what I started. Now with that being said, I do think the bigger issue at hand that others have with the show, is how heavy handed some of the messaging can come off. There are other ways to write dialogue when criticizing a character in the show. For example, the entire sequence with She-Hulk describing how she deals with her emotions comparatively to Bruce. Who, although it is implied Jennifer has experienced forms of harassment, Bruce is a victim of child-abuse and a survivor of attempted suicide. I understand that people deal with trauma differently, but Jennifer didn’t have to compare who deals with their trauma better than the other. Basically writing flawed or bad characters should be written in a way that doesn’t feel or come off as heavy handed. Whereas a good example of this in the show is with the jerk lawyer who objectifies women and/or belittles and disrespects Jen when she’s more than qualified for her job, or Titania herself who is an entitled brat who is attempting to create drama or friction in Jen’s life, AND is not a M A N.
It's implied that Bruce wasn't abused as a kid here.
@@ShadowSonic2 that’s what you took from all that? And regardless even if it was implied what validity does that have in regards to both Bruce’s and Jennifer’s character development? Bruce has still attempted suicide as noted in the first Avengers? So what’s your point?
The thing that gets me about comparative suffering (aside from being silly as a concept) is what it glosses over. People have been saying “Bruce has had a worse life Jen had it way easier” as though that isn’t a justification for her having more control over her emotions. He has rage issues because of his past, the hulking out isn’t just rage, it’s a sign of mental instability. Smart hulk has worked through enough of his shit to reconcile his different personalities. Jen never developed a split personality and so she is in control much more quickly.
I always love people that can see both sides
@@aces92E Jen compared her struggles to Bruce's though and then she undermines what he's gone through.
What people often forget while defending Jen's outrage is that we been watching Hulk, his trauma and sacrifices for years (within the context of MCU) and then a new character comes in and says she/he has more trauma.. Ofcourse, people gonna have problem with that cause they have this emotional bond growing up with Hulk and Bruce throughout the years while in 8 episodes of She-Hulk we see no personal growth in her cause she is perfect from the beginning (as per the writers).. There's a reason why this old saying exists "Show don't tell".. The show keeps telling literally whose show Shw-Hulk is but failed to cause most of the hype was on cameos rather than the characters it's supposed to be based on
What people who keep going on about poor Bruce Banner's giant heaps of trauma keep forgetting if that Jen's speech isn't about who has the most trauma. It's about how it is socially unacceptable for women to loose their cool and get angry, while it is practically expected for men to do so. She is better at it than Bruce (who, frankly, wasn't good at that at all before he evolved into Smug Hulk) because she has a lifetime of practice.
If Jen had said "My dad violated me from the age of 12 to 18 very often and my Mom beat me because she was jealous, that's why I can control my anger"...
...The Broflakes would say that's nothing to be upset about and it's nothing traumatizing.
@@Carabas72 and?
@@smirkyshadow
What you are doing is just not understanding what words mean. You have decided that it means what you think it means, and you're twisting the language to support your meaning.
@@smirkyshadow
It means that women always have to control their anger, while Bruce never had any raeson to bother with anger control before he became a Hulk. It means that society accepts men that get angry. It's expected of them.
I think it's important to have a common man to say what most people are actually thinking, instead of tip toe ing around people's feelings.
Fun fact: the Critical Drinker and his ilk WILL NEVER become invested in a female protagonist because they're misogynist assholes. This explains 100% of his criticism of the show.
Except if she's a sexualised teenager in an anime, they love that.
@@Sre171 or it's the token ripley and sarah conner card
@@stinkoshatter-shield2096 They say that they like Sarah Connor, but the truth is that any woman who can do a pull up terrifies them.
Isn't drinker's version of the story just adapting the first issue of she hulk
Also since when do female characters need all of the male characters be either weak or stupid or evil or subservient or incompetened or sexist for females to be strong
1. partially, particularly his take on the origin, but a relatively minor alteration to a 40+ year old comic book is worth it to *properly* introduce a new protagonist, as we saw with She-Hulk episode 1.
2. Never, and as we’ll discuss in the followup video, that’s not at all what’s happened with She-Hulk
@@PillarofGarbage I'd love to get your take on Partner Track. Its a show about a Lawyer and, with the exception of the comedy angle, I think its everything She-Hulk aspired to be and, most importantly to me, it has a Strong Female Character who is strong but not at the expense of the Men around her.
This is a trash take. She has every right to see ‘anger’ according to her own experience but saying she controls anger INFINITELY MORE THAN THE FUCKING HULK is ridiculous!
is it not possible for a show's protagonist to exaggerate and/or be incorrect? the whole point of that scene is that she DOES become angry, that the way she muffles her anger doesn't mean she controls it, right? she nearly goes green in that scene, too.
@@ovenram the thing is it could have been better if they handle it properly
@@seyio1717 100% agree, the entire show could be better but i dont think this scene was necessarily mishandled. there are things they could have done to make it better, but what she says definitely isn't what the show is trying to assert as fact. the idea they are presenting is very clear to me.
@@seyio1717 they handled it pretty accurately
The point is not about who has it worse, the point is thar Jen knows Bruce from childhood and she knows that he as an individual has never been good at dealing with his anger.
Rage Hulk, is Banner Hulk, not every Hulk. That was the point. That is and always was the case in the comics lore. It's why Banner is the only Gamma monster to get stronger as he gets angrier.
READ MORE COMICS PEOPLE.
I watch both of you, and I find both of you have opinions that I like. Curious to see if he responds to this
As someone who watches both, what do you think about this vid?
@@TheRenegadeMonk Both make good points, both make bad points. These are their opinions, and I’ll always take such with a grain of salt.
I dislike the way PoG’s fanbase screams “BIGOT”, and I dislike the way Drinker’s fanbase screams “SNOWFLAKE”, though.
@@gdaw8326 which do you think are bad in this vid?
@@TheRenegadeMonk PoG definitely
@@seyio1717 I'm sorry my friend but you still aren't making sense.
Between the burnout, and the quality of previous MCU shows I’ve been too critical of She-Hulk. I was just expecting it to be more than a Low stakes, slice of life sitcom. She-Hulks not a big event, and chances are if you don’t watch it you won’t miss out on anything crucial.
It still has its flaws as every show does. Most channels have already covered the flaws to a ludicrous degree, and channels like Drinker criticize it for the wrong reasons.
My main issues with are just the basic court scenes, Uncanny CGI, overuse of comedy, and the need to turn serious characters like Wong into a joke when their are already enough jokers in the MCU. It’s not the worst the MCU has made, but it’s far from the best.
Hope the last few episodes will change my mind. Because I don’t want to hate the show, but I don’t want to blindly love it either.
Nearly everything you said was incorrect
Yes drinker is biased and it seems to effective some of his reviews. I don’t agree with his opinion that Jen’s opening statement (closing statement in reality) makes her unlikeable… If anything it shows that her friend is more annoying than anything (or a good friend..?).
9:35 - I also don’t agree with your statement that secondary characters giving the protagonist the “your so great, you can do anything” speech is used to show the audience that secondary character traits and not just lazy writing. I think it’s absolutely a way to breeze by showing us how good Jen is. She doesn’t really do any above average lawyering throughout the season (probably because the writers said that they “quickly learned none of them knew how to write a legal show”). It was a way to for writers to avoid that. Your example of Loki is a little better, however Sylvie can absolutely be viewed as the main character. She’s the one that’s mostly driving the plot in the second half, she’s better at fighting and an overall better version of Loki. Yes him saying this shows us that he has warmed up to her, however it doesn’t change the fact that here the writers are also using it as a crutch to show how great and much better sylvie is than Loki… I mean come on man look at the past 4/5 years of “girl boss” movies with similar moments. To act like this type of writing isn’t being used to prop up female characters and show they don’t need a man’s help is just lying to yourself.
At first I gave up watching the She-Hulk premiere early in the episode, but you've convinced me to swallow my pride and give the show a shot.
No don't do it don't ruin your life
I hope the best to you. Because I can't get past Jen toxic behavior. It's genuinely disturbing watching her belittle her cousin like that. Especially when it's the opposite in the comic, Jennifer being supportive to both Banner and Hulk is why I love her in the first place.
Just because a guy made a fail critic doesn't mean it's actually a good show
Already 7nt days , how was it?
How was it?
Despite also having a small issue or two with the first episode, I feel it perfectly sets up the rules and expectations for the rest of the series to follow. Jen's story isn't supposed to be a perfect mirror of Bruce's.
Honestly, loving the series so far and the episode The Retreat did a lot of very interesting things with the characters❤
I loved The Retreat!
No it doesn't plus this show gets terrible every Episode
Well, of course. I'm happy they're doing something different. Just wished they didn't make it seem like the average American woman's daily, miniscule inconviniences were on par or even worse to go through than being constantly chased down by the government, trapped inside of your own body for 2 years on an alien planet, having to watch your friends die, and attempt a suicide before failing, not because you stopped yourself but your alter-ego did.
TCD seems like the kind of audience who can't go beyond the superficiality, unable to read the subtlety and visual narrative. And his opinion of The Boys season 4 is even worse.
As a supposedly critic, shouldn't he be aware of the golden rule "show, don't tell?"
🗣Honestly resorting to name calling to get your point across is pretty shallow and pathetic especially considering the fact that critical drinker had good point about the infamous scene about Jen controlling her anger better than Bruce which is simply not true if u read a comic book u would know that
Drinker name calls people too, dude. I agree that name calling is shallow (unless it's directed towards genuinely awful people), but you can't pretend that Drinker doesn't do that either.
The bar scene doesn't set-up Jen's claim that she's an expert at controlling her anger. To the contrary it completely refutes it by showing her submitting to her anger and losing control. It would have been much better (and a great callback) if she'd instead said something about being (justifiably) angry all the time.
I guess this depends on how you take TCD’s line that the episode ‘doesn’t actually show us any of the things she’s complaining about’. Jen ‘complains’ about being catcalled on the street - that’s what we see.
I guess your point is that TCD meant to say ‘it doesn’t actually show us Jen remaining calm during any of the experiences she’s complaining about’ - and if he’d said that, yeah, I wouldn’t have cut to the bar scene, but if that’s what he meant, he probably should have said it.
@@PillarofGarbage i gonna take a page from your argument Earlier in the comment section i believe you said words mean things and paying attention to those scenes helps us understanding the scenes THIS Clearly Shows that you weren't paying Attention to CD's Argument At All
@@seyio1717 what makes you think he does listen. He's willing to suck off Walt Disney if it gets avengers EMH back on they air, which he is clearly doing
@@seyio1717 my guy, not being able to control your anger after seeing a spaceship, crashing your car, and transforming into a hulk isn’t the own you think it is
@@Pearlem my gal this guy is literally making imaginary scenarios which is not even real
I mean, I don’t like marvel stuff generally and that line was VERY on the nose, but as a small woman with an MA and a pretty severe SA history I get what she’s saying. I’m talked down to, about my areas of expertise, ALL THE TIME, and as I’ve processed my trauma I’ve had insane amounts of rage come up. But unless you’re a good friend I talk to about it, you’d never know, because I DO keep it under control. I don’t unleash it on others. Idk man, that line made her VERY relatable to me - I think TCD just doesn’t like women who express anger
How likeable is a character that complains about people only liking her because she's She-Hulk, but then takes advantage of being She-Hulk in both her professional and dating life? It's a contradiction that earns her zero sympathy from the audience.
That's called BEING HUMAN. We have complex emotions and we aren't always perfect goody too shoes like you seem to want her to be. Plus she doesn't complain about people only liking she Hulk until AFTER she gets a job that only wants her to be in she hulk form, AFTER she unsuccessfully gets tinder dates until she signs up as She Hulk, etc it's perfectly normal at this point in the story for her to be a bit sad that Jen seems to get sidelined and everyone just wants she hulk.
@@Inebriated_Goat yet she doesn't seem like a complex character
@Stg its not even bad writing but go off.
Wasn’t she forced to be in her Hulk form so that she can have a job at the superhuman law division after not being hired by any firm since her Hulk reveal?
Her complaint wasn't about her being "forced" to be She-Hulk, her complaint was that the only reason they wanted her at all was because she was She-Hulk.
No, the point about jane already having no problems with her male colleague is not dismished because he interrupts her. Nothing he makes creats a true negative effect on her, every time it's just a mildly inconvenience, that she, by being absolutely superior, is not really affected. There is no tension when he appears, because he is just pathetic and is treated like a pathetic character.
So CD point is absolutelly valid, him interrupting her don't make him a threat, a challenge or anything like that, and the way tha they dismis him tell us that he don't matter and have no power over them, as sush, he is just a pathetic, mildly inconvenience to the main character. It's just bad, because what he representes in the show should be the main villain, but it's a really badly portraited villain.
Mary-Suuuuueeeee 😎
@Miguel Garay the arc wasn't funny at all
@Miguel Garay yeah, there are a lot of people saying the series get better in the two last episodes
It's amazing how much "evidence" of bad writing you find if you go into a show expecting it to be badly written because of ThE wOkE aGeNdA. When you want a scene to achieve A, are too tied up in your own biases to see that it achieves B and then berate it for failing to achieve A, that doesn't count as a failure on the part of the writers.