I’ve always liked skinny tires on Land Rovers. Look at the Camel Trophy trucks. They all had skinny tires. They drove miles in different terrain all over. They look awesome to me!!
Long time off-roader, I'm in my 70's and we new this back in the 60's in the beginning of Baja. Dick Cepek, Mickey Thompson and others at that time were also running in the sand dunes (in very loose sand) and decided a big fat tire might "float" instead of digging in, thus the BIG FAT TIRES were born. Then, the same thought occurred to mud runners and all the yahoos who thought they were "cool". Those of us who knew better stayed with a narrower tire and taller. If possible, no more than 10 inches wide and no more than 33 inches tall. BTW, you get a longer footprint with skinny tires.
I’d say it’s very smart. When I was growing up on a farm in NZ, we always had skinny tyres on our old Land Rover and that bad boy would go anywhere. In the mud, you couldn’t stop it, they would cut through the soft mud to the solid stuff underneath. Oh and you forgot one important advantage. Cost. Thos big tyres are really expensive!
I also live in Arizona and I put 255/80 17R (33in) on my (2in) lifted 2nd Gen Tacoma. Very happy with both on and offroad performance. My experience with pizza cutters corresponds with your experience 100%. On my truck the tires look pretty good in the wheel well as they sit flush to the fenders and not sticking out.
Very sensible and, a great article/paper you linked to. I've been using off road vehicles professionally and recreationally for over 45 years and without doubt many lightweight 4x4s have tyres much too wide for their weight. A Unimog weighs 3, 4, 5, 6 times as much as most SUV 4x4s yet sits on 395, 445, 495 tyres yet many SUVs run 12.5, 14.5. If you need flotation then maybe wide is beneficial, but a narrow tyres, aired down offers the same footprint with less resistance pushing through the sand etc. I have seen so many more mechanical failures with huge wide tyres than with narrower - axle shafts, universal joints, diffs. Still, if you like the look of wide tyres, it's not illegal...do your thing.
I run 235/85R16 (Steel 6 lug wheels) on my 93 k2500 Light Duty. I love them. I am slowly building a sleeper. I got the nv4500 transmission with the granny gear which makes for awesome hill ascents and descents. It's a 64.3:1 crawl ratio. More than good enough for an overlanding rig. Besides if those badasses can run that tire size in the camel trophy it's good enough for this hombre.
Four years ago I broke from the cool kid wide tire ranks. Currently running a 35x10.50. Still tall but the narrower tire behaves so much better on and off road. Thin is in...
Due to the lack of gear options & weaker auto trans, us Trooper owners have been going w/ pizza cutters for a while w/ great results. I'm either going 235/85 or 255/85 for my next set.
Land rover Defenders come with narrow wheels as standard and for occasional off road and in deep snow the narrow wheels are excellent. Interesting is that the Citroen 2CV is also a "go anywhere" vehicle with its skinny wheels. Whilst it is currently fashionable to put big and narrow wheels on modified Land rovers, it is often counter productive for grip. I have used my Defenders a lot off road for shooting days, and in bad winter weather when others hesitate to venture out, I have been asked to go and recover other vehicles and have no hesitation to take out the Defender with standard wheels. The other thing on loose surfaces, most people are too aggressive on the throttle which gives wheel spin and loss of traction. If you have Land rover off road training they simply tell you to put the vehicle in low ratio, diff lock on and let the vehicle walk out on tick over, and it does. Gentle throttle maintains the grip in most instances.
I was just about to write everything you have said. I run a 27 year old 300tdi Discovery on 205/80x 16. Great performance off road , fat tyres are for poseurs and those who have no idea. And they are cheaper, better mpg from less rolling resistance, less strain on the drive train and you maintain the the gearing between the engine and the wheels the engineers calculated into their design for optimum performance.
@@philhawley1219 Obviously I agree. I have owned a Discovery and now on my second Defender, specifically for woodland tracks and in winter. I lived down a lane that often blocked with snow. The standard wheels are far better in all round conditions and always managed the conditions.
Standard Tyres for old Defender 110/130. I have 235/85/16 with a Disco 1 tranny, and enjoy now the same lower revs as a Disco 1 or 2. For general work like overlanding perfect;y suitable. Happy Rovering everyone
As I get older, I give less and less of a crap of what other people think of what I drive or do! 🤣 I am going down from a set of 35's (BFG KM3's) on my Jeep TJ to 33's or maybe even 31's as I am not rockcrawling, wanting to do a gear change, crappy gas mileage. It came with these tires when I bought it and after a year and a half, I am done with them. I just want to go out with my 4x4 and explore. Thanks for the great video.
I appreciate your description of why you chose this size. I ran the LT235/85-16 re-treads from TireRecappers on my '05 Rubicon and was quite pleased. Right now we're running the 265/70-15 Coopers on our Disco II since I don't have a lift yet and these are snowpeak rated
You're absolutely correct here, skinny is far better. 40 odd years ago a land rover off road guy told my dad skinny tyres create more ground pressure and therefore don't sink. The big tyre boy's don't believe me haha. I'm on 245/75/R16 on my disco 2, perfect for me.
I love the pizza cutters. I've always ran tall skinnies when I could. I just ordered a set of Atlander Roverclaw MTs in that same size for my 95 F350. I'm running cooper Discoverers in 265 now but wanted to get back to the 235s
Enjoyed your video, I previously had 265 75 16 on my D2 drove to Iceland and when I returned to London I dropped down to to 245 75 16 major difference felt sick by the look but as you say terrific improvement overall
Great video.. I changed out my 37’s for 34/ 9/ 17… and agree with about everything you just posted.. one thing I do love is how clean my jeep stays now..!! Lol
Pretty thorough evaluation -- thanks! Been looking at this exact size in an even lighter(!) all terrain, E load-rated tire -- the Firestone Destination X/T @ 39 ibs. Slightly less tread depth than average (14/32). Buyers don't find them all that great for highway use (only fair to middling steering and some high-pitched road noise), but ice and light snow traction is above average for a non-winter tire, and it likely has most of the other off-road benefits you cite.
Yeah you are absolutely right I think a lot of people don't understand that ground clearance you can also think of as static ground clearance... And that your true ground clearance comes into play while you're actually moving which gets into the angles- how good are your angles.... And basically to me the better your angles are the more likely you are to maintain the clearance that you have while moving.
I'm fitting the same tyres on my 2003 Mazda Bravo tomorrow. I'm comming back from 265 75 16s so same night but going narrower for the same reasons. great vid, thanks.
They look fine. Our D1 does so much better since we sent from the 265/75's to 245/75's, not to mention you can actually make a turn in a parking lot without looking like Austin Powers!
As others have said, here in the UK this tyre size is considered normal. For Disco’s they sometimes need a 1” lift via spacers under the springs and the ‘Camel cut’ to their rear wheel arches. Also you’ve only lost 1/2” of ground clearance due to the tyres. Dropping an inch from the air springs would mean less pressure so more articulation as we see here. Jeep Wrangler 2 door is 96” wheelbase, 4 door 116” Disco 100”. Some 7” steelies with a better offset will do nice. The tall/narrow vs fat/wide argument as been going for ever! Enjoy :-)
Nice job and review. This is the Defender tyres size and look where have gone and still go. Onmy 94 Honda Crossroad (D1) went from 265/75-16 to 235-85-16 and had way more power, easy to street and rolling momentum also changed. Plus my fuel consumption dropped. Goes so many places.👍
Hello From Ireland 🇮🇪 I had 235 85r16 in my Land Rover Defender DCPU and they drove amazing, I only put 235 85r16 Toyo Open Country MT on it this week. This will be the widest and tallest i will go on the Landy as they are the best size of tyre overall. I brought the Toyo out to the standard arches with now steel wheels with a Zero offset so it really looks beefy so its a win win.
Another great thing about a skinny tire, is you can usually fit a taller size (which equates to more ground clearance) than with a wider tire on a vehicle before it rubs something.
I got a new f150 last year and have been upgrading things for road trips and backcountry camping. My first tire upgrade was to 315/70 17 and the clearance was closer than I liked with the UCA, so I sent the tires back. I decided to go with 275/70 18 and those new wheels and tires are on their way. Initially I was fixated on the cool factor, but then came to my senses. Excessive tire weight can cause ride issues and overwhelm the suspension, plus sap a tone of power and reduce gas mileage and range. Off Roaders in Africa and Australia have been successfully using relatively small tires since the beginning. Moderate size tires fit my requirements much better than large tires. Large tires are superior in specific situations like rock crawling and situations that need floatation (soft/loose sand and deep mud).
I have 235/85 R16 KO2s on my 02 Tacoma. I love them. Better gas mileage. Still kick butt off road. Total width reduction for 4 tires compared to 265s is 200 mm. That's almost the width of another tire. I think it's a little quieter because of less tread hammering the road.
I have gone back to OEM size tires and wow is it so much better off-road. Low range is slower, and on sand I'm not bulldozing the sand as much, so it's more fuel efficient. I fell for the marketing before, but at least now I'm more the wiser.
Now let's say you're doing really extreme stuff I'm not sure where you drive but I drive in Southern Arizona up really Rocky rutted halfway crawling halfway sand halfway loose gravel crazy stuff and right now 285 75 16 when I air them down to 20 or 25 psi they are absolutely wonderful I drive a discovery Series 2 with CDL and traction control. I just can't imagine going more skinny I mean I know it exists but compared to a Rubicon two-door and four-door factory tire size if you look in my profile picture the 285.75 are about what a stock Jeep has and they build those Jeeps pretty smart as far as lockers sway bar disconnects solid axles still so I figured they know what they're doing. I guess my question to you is besides feeling a little more responsive and easier through the sand do you really think it's better when the going gets tough and you're going up some crazy stuff you should probably have lockers to go up but you're used to doing it so you just do it? I feel like with my current width being not that wide depending on who you talk to but apparently wide on this video they grip length and width over the rocks and I hardly ever slip I just Cruise right up things perfect I can't imagine it getting better but everyone says go even more narrow I mean is there a limit? LOL can't just keep saying go more narrow what if everyone went more narrow and then 30 years from now we say hey let's go even more narrow like where does it stop? I know the old rigs were more narrow but they were also a lot lighter and they didn't cruise up really extreme things with slow ease the way we do now with wider tires then they had not super wide just wider.
There is a reason why the 4x4 were usually equipped with pizza cutters - Land Rover even used in the desert skinnies as Toyota did with the 62, 80, 100 or Nissan with the patrol
All game viewing vehicles in Africa use skinny tyres, narrow with high profile. The same for farming tractors. Skinny tyres help reduce rolling resistance, reduces unsprung weight which aides in better fuel economy and less wear on the gearbox and drive train.
235/85/16 is the default Defender size. 235/70/16 is Disco2 standard, I'm considering going up to the 85, but without a lift, on the OEM 16" wheels. It SHOULD fit...
I used to have a Toyota 4Runner on skinny tires 235/85 16's and I really liked the way that it performed on and off road. Now I have a Jeep and it they made a skinny 35" tire I use them, but they don't.
Guess I'm in the minority I love skinny tires, fat tires are for sports cars. Look at the old military vehicles and some modern ones, skinny tires. It's like they know something.
I have a trail jeep and the widest tire I'll consider is 255, anything wider then that I won't even give a second look. I run on all surfaces and the skinny tire is best on just about all. You get better trail range, I find them easier to control, you don't need to air down as much to get the same contact patch, I can run 20psi when others have to go down to 10 or even less, I've never broke a bead. I can wheel all day with out refueling, and can go over anything. If you saw my jeep you would know instantly the last thing I care about are looks. Mother nature has done more to modify the look of my jeep then I ever will.
Makes sense to me. If you go watch the camel trophy videos all the defenders and I think the discovery’s had way skinny tires. I think it’s a good look 👍
@@fitzventure IIRC the RRC &D1 ran 7.5R16 in the CT. I did see a CT vehicle in the early 90s with 205R16. However not the Dunlop SP Qualifier I believe the CT crew ran
I totally agree with you but right now I have 285 75 16 and yeah it's wider than what we are talking about here but is it really too wide? I mean My Discovery Series 2 has a 2 inch lift and it moves those tires wonderful I never get stuck I fly over sand I go up Rocky rutted awesome things around 20 to 25 psi and I just can't imagine it getting better with something skinnier? I know in comparison to Jeeps two door and four-door I have about their stock size and they go much wider so if they go much wider then isn't mine considered narrow relatively speaking? Where do we draw the line at how narrow to go? I don't really have the money to just go out and buy 255 85 16 to compare them to my 285 75 16. When the truck is parked like on my profile picture the 285/75 don't really look huge. Yeah they could be more narrow but they could really be much wider so who's to say going wider than what you have is better if what you already have seems relatively narrow compared to other rigs? Now what if those camel trophy Vehicles had a little wider but more power maybe they would have done even better? I see other 4x4 Vehicles doing extraordinary things with wide tires or at least as wide as mine so I don't know how I would really like to see identical Vehicles perform tasks aired down to the same PSI and go on the same extreme terrain not just basic hard pack stuff and see what actually does better. I don't deny the science behind it I'm just saying mine are relatively narrow even though we are calling them wide in the Land Rover Discovery World and on this video and others like it that's all I'm saying maybe they are narrow enough maybe there is a such thing as too narrow?
By the 1960's the majority of places that are wheeled today had already been wheeled on skinny tires with no lift. I have heard old men talk about this since I was a little kid in the late 70's. I know skinny tires are superior in snow on the road. The looks thing is a hangup I don't suffer from. What preforms well is what looks good to me.
I’ve got a 61 109 series two. It’s back on the 750 16s that it should have on steel rims. No prop angle issues, chassis clearance issues, looks” right”. Stock Rover. Mum knows best!
They look cool, as in functionally cool, honestly, it's a North American thing, in many other parts of the world the smaller more functional tyres are common.
I had ex military tires on my county Defender 86. Model which were lugged tyres ,I 16 inch standard rim and it has even been on long beach runs never been bogged daughter. Drove most of the time when she was young.
I like your style I went from 285 75 16 which is a 33" tyre to a bigger tyre but I went for the skinny size which was a 35 10.50 16 and I was shocked, the weight difference was the 35" tyre weight was less heavier than the 33". So in the way of your saying, I got the best of both worlds.
Skinny is definitely better all around, exspesily in deep snow or icy conditions. I pass big jacked up trucks with obnoxious wide tires stuck in the snow with my little Skinny tall tired tacoma
HAHAHAHA..smaller tyre haha. really good video- thanks - smaller tire! - you yanks crack me up 😊It seems that the USA spec vehicles have steped up to meet the tyre culture of the region - In many places aroud the word, the OEM spec Discovery 2 tyre is 235/70R16 (yes I am aware that wider tyres (up to 255 in Australia )of lower profile are also OEM spec option) - The 235/85R16 is a taller tyre of the OEM spec and is the standard OEM tyre for the old landrover defender (mid 1980s to mid 2010s era).. These are very capable off road tyres in their own right. you will find that the 85% profile will not be as good on road and still impact on the acceleration on the discovery . But then again coming from the 285s you will think these are tiny! - I would have thought the 285s would have cause clearance issues(tyres contacting the vehicle) unless the vehicle is lifted. -What lift does your vehicle have? Do you have wide angle unis on the front prop shaft? The narrow tyres require less power to drive in soft conditions - as you let the pressure down, you get a longer more narrow contact patch of the same area as aired down wider tyres
An additional advance of,thinner tires over wide ones, especially for over landing, is,thinner tires not only have a thinner footprint, but it is longer, and in many cases,you have a larger contact area. Cheers
Know a guy who escorts people across the Simpson desert for a living and he uses skinnies. That kinda confirmed my belief in skinnies. Well said about centre of gravity also.
The narrower tyres a when aired down create a longer foot print than the wider tyre so they actually have either the same surface area or more than the wider tyre. So there would be very little difference between the two when driving in sand. Keep the alloys, less unsprung weight! Remember, it's only looks!!!
For the last several years I've had the exact same size on my D2, with the 6.5" LR steelies. It was like adding power steering. So much better in every way, like you said. I have the E load Falken At3's and run between 32-42psi, depending on load. Any more and you need to wear a mouth guard ; )
Yeah I've come to the conclusion a set of 235\85-16s on 7inch rims, I like the look of the Goodyear duratrac, I've heard nothing but good things about them and because of the square tread it makes them look wider. Get a set of rims that have 30mm negative offset gives your disco wider stance, looks tougher and is more stable.
You DO have more travel! Less weight is required to "squish" the skinnier tires because they support less load than wider tires. I'm actually thinking about ditching the 265 65 17 tires for 245 75 17 tires when these wear out and then maybe using wheel spacers. Independent suspension doesn't flex that much. When you're dealing with about 7 inches of travel , just 1 inch of tire "squish" will increase flex more than 10%. I've been doing some experiments and I'll tell you another trick. When you drop your tire pressures... Either go up about 4 pounds on the front or go down 4 lb more in the rear... Usually it's the back tires that won't compress that well if you don't have a lot of weight back there because the engines in the front... You can gain some tire flex by doing lower tire pressures in the rear. In fact .... I did some corner travel index tests with 22 PSI all the way around... And then I did test with 26 in the front 22 in the rear... It actually performed better with 26 in the front and 22 in the rear... the reason was because I needed some rear weight shift because my problem was that I wasn't getting enough tire compression in the rear. There is a threshold though... I kept raising the front pressures until I hit 29 and then it started lifting again... So do create a difference between the front and the back... But don't create too much... If you get some rhino ramps and put them diagonal to each other you can drive your vehicle up on the ramps and just manipulate the tire pressures until you get what you want.... And now you know your ideal flex pressures for off-road...
💂all land rover since the year dot+ have been driven produced with slimmer wheel's than most vehicles today and been used in every country in the world by military & still being used 🍻💂
I love the 235/85R16, but it is not a fit (lookwise) for your Land Rover. A smaller body can make pizza cutters look good. Still, you have benefits in your new tire size.
What if my official tires size is 225 60 16 And I am planning to replace them with 215 60 16 Is that a good idea for better gas mileage? Do you think it can effect the handling?
They look awesome! THIS is cool looking and I mean it. Have you considered a modest wheel spacer to maybe compensate visually? By modest I mean a 3/4 inch spacer.
I'd take this a step further: E rated tire 👎 for 99% of us. I love my 255/75/17 C rated tires. Yes it's a 32. Yes I can go anywhere a 33 can. C rated are light. I average 17.9mpg in my Seqouia! And I tow 4000 lbs often
Tire pressure: elaborate please? The suggested from LR for our discos are like 26 and 46 fr and rr I think. What’s your perspective. Just subscribed to your page… gotta catchup.
@@fitzventure i am currently on 265/75 on my discovery 2 but i am really a big fan of skinny tall tires haha (ok beisdes the look obviously on a disco), on my defender i used to have 7.5x7.5 which is an old size i guess but its almost the same as a 235/85 and they were fantastic offroad (and on). when i was buying for my disco i was reaaally unsure what to get but then decided to go with the 265. now its not massive but was still interesting to see if there is less fuel consumption on a skinny tire, i assume there is less rolling resistance. currently my consumption is not great haha thanks for the video!
Sounds like you should stick with a factory D2 body and tire setup. Maybe get the air springs instead of coils. Only say this as I think you terrain your driving is probably not required. I have to disagree, I went from skinny’s to mid width and slightly bigger. It’s still not big enough on tougher terrain especially when the big trucks have ripped holes and gaps in the terrain. 100% agree about on road characteristics, skinny’s are better. This is not my daily driver so I’m happy to have shitty on road drive to get into the mountains
Music to my ears. On or off road, people are paying stupid money, and adding ridiculous weight, based mainly on the look. Narrows conform to the ground better and the greater amount of sidewall relative to tread does you a lot of favours. Most people do not seem to realise that sidewall is important. Why would you not want to save unsprung weight AND save money at the same time? Contact patch size is complicated: might be similar area with similar pressure but better (longer) shape. Steels are the best.
Spot on! Who knew that logic & common sense were controversial? Big fat heavy more resistant tires are a retailer scam. An amateur hour, mall crawler, garage queen specialty! Q: Don't steelies weigh more than your alloys? ✌🏽🤙🏽👍🏽🍻!
Man great video! So right now I'm running 285 75 16 if you look at my profile picture. So I've been having this debate in my mind thinking yeah my tires are kind of wide but only in the Discovery World overall are they really that wide? I'm considering going 255 85 16 it would actually be very slightly taller but much narrower. Not to compare things to a Jeep but even a shorter Rubicon two-door with a similar wheelbase comes stock with something about as big as 285 75 16 and Jeep seems like they know what they're doing so it makes me wonder are the Land Rover guys in the UK that preach narrow narrow narrow just getting hung up on old series Rovers and Willie's which could do narrow because they were so lightweight? I do get the concept of less rolling resistance and when you air down a nice long patch still along with better contact pressure but I wonder if there is a formula to figure out based on the weight of the vehicle and the wheelbase what would the best be because I really don't feel like mine are very wide they're just wider then going skinny if that makes sense. Like what if there's too skinny? Like it cuts in with all the extra pressure and what if a little wider floats over but still has enough pressure because it's not too wide see what I mean? Again I look to the two-door Jeep factory tire size and I think they're not crazy wide they're about as wide as with the Land Rover guys call too wide so I'll watch your whole video I just started it!
@@fitzventure or maybe not. I don't know I feel like the Disco Community just considers wide something that rubs without trimming but I don't think we should but instead the weight of the vehicle because if you compare the old examples those Vehicles were much lighter than ours maybe mine are the equivalent at my weight to the old Willies having something skinnier. I bet you if mine didn't rub to begin with all of the European disco Community wouldn't think they are considered wide just medium
IMO, the tall/skinny looks much more professional (and therefore cooler) to me. Look at military Defenders or Camel Trophy trucks vs. guys out swamping in their Wranglers. Nothing wrong with the latter, just doesn't look as cool to me.
I’ve always liked skinny tires on Land Rovers. Look at the Camel Trophy trucks. They all had skinny tires. They drove miles in different terrain all over. They look awesome to me!!
I agree, they look a lot better to me.
Welcome to the Skinny Club… I started my skinny tire 255/85/16 on my 80 series Land Cruiser 4 yrs ago and never look back. 👌
235 85r16 are better
Long time off-roader, I'm in my 70's and we new this back in the 60's in the beginning of Baja. Dick Cepek, Mickey Thompson and others at that time were also running in the sand dunes (in very loose sand) and decided a big fat tire might "float" instead of digging in, thus the BIG FAT TIRES were born. Then, the same thought occurred to mud runners and all the yahoos who thought they were "cool". Those of us who knew better stayed with a narrower tire and taller. If possible, no more than 10 inches wide and no more than 33 inches tall. BTW, you get a longer footprint with skinny tires.
I’d say it’s very smart. When I was growing up on a farm in NZ, we always had skinny tyres on our old Land Rover and that bad boy would go anywhere. In the mud, you couldn’t stop it, they would cut through the soft mud to the solid stuff underneath. Oh and you forgot one important advantage. Cost. Thos big tyres are really expensive!
You’re right. I didn’t mention that these are much cheaper. Good point.
I also live in Arizona and I put 255/80 17R (33in) on my (2in) lifted 2nd Gen Tacoma. Very happy with both on and offroad performance. My experience with pizza cutters corresponds with your experience 100%. On my truck the tires look pretty good in the wheel well as they sit flush to the fenders and not sticking out.
what's the width of the wheel ?
@@elburropardo1661 17 x 8.5 stock wheel
@@GMauriceGuinouard thanks. I want to put those tires on my Tundra but I couldn’t find wheels 17 x 7 or 7.5 with 0 offset
Very sensible and, a great article/paper you linked to. I've been using off road vehicles professionally and recreationally for over 45 years and without doubt many lightweight 4x4s have tyres much too wide for their weight.
A Unimog weighs 3, 4, 5, 6 times as much as most SUV 4x4s yet sits on 395, 445, 495 tyres yet many SUVs run 12.5, 14.5. If you need flotation then maybe wide is beneficial, but a narrow tyres, aired down offers the same footprint with less resistance pushing through the sand etc.
I have seen so many more mechanical failures with huge wide tyres than with narrower - axle shafts, universal joints, diffs. Still, if you like the look of wide tyres, it's not illegal...do your thing.
I run 235/85R16 (Steel 6 lug wheels) on my 93 k2500 Light Duty. I love them. I am slowly building a sleeper. I got the nv4500 transmission with the granny gear which makes for awesome hill ascents and descents. It's a 64.3:1 crawl ratio. More than good enough for an overlanding rig. Besides if those badasses can run that tire size in the camel trophy it's good enough for this hombre.
That's some serious gear ratio. Nice.
Four years ago I broke from the cool kid wide tire ranks. Currently running a 35x10.50. Still tall but the narrower tire behaves so much better on and off road. Thin is in...
Due to the lack of gear options & weaker auto trans, us Trooper owners have been going w/ pizza cutters for a while w/ great results. I'm either going 235/85 or 255/85 for my next set.
Land rover Defenders come with narrow wheels as standard and for occasional off road and in deep snow the narrow wheels are excellent. Interesting is that the Citroen 2CV is also a "go anywhere" vehicle with its skinny wheels. Whilst it is currently fashionable to put big and narrow wheels on modified Land rovers, it is often counter productive for grip. I have used my Defenders a lot off road for shooting days, and in bad winter weather when others hesitate to venture out, I have been asked to go and recover other vehicles and have no hesitation to take out the Defender with standard wheels. The other thing on loose surfaces, most people are too aggressive on the throttle which gives wheel spin and loss of traction. If you have Land rover off road training they simply tell you to put the vehicle in low ratio, diff lock on and let the vehicle walk out on tick over, and it does. Gentle throttle maintains the grip in most instances.
I was just about to write everything you have said. I run a 27 year old 300tdi Discovery on 205/80x 16. Great performance off road , fat tyres are for poseurs and those who have no idea. And they are cheaper, better mpg from less rolling resistance, less strain on the drive train and you maintain the the gearing between the engine and the wheels the engineers calculated into their design for optimum performance.
@@philhawley1219 Obviously I agree. I have owned a Discovery and now on my second Defender, specifically for woodland tracks and in winter. I lived down a lane that often blocked with snow. The standard wheels are far better in all round conditions and always managed the conditions.
Standard Tyres for old Defender 110/130. I have 235/85/16 with a Disco 1 tranny, and enjoy now the same lower revs as a Disco 1 or 2. For general work like overlanding perfect;y suitable. Happy Rovering everyone
Hi, is your disco 1 tranny a manual or auto? What motor is in it?
Look at the old Jeep Willys and FJ's. They all had skinny tyres. Those trucks drove all over the world on those skinnies.
As I get older, I give less and less of a crap of what other people think of what I drive or do! 🤣
I am going down from a set of 35's (BFG KM3's) on my Jeep TJ to 33's or maybe even 31's as I am not rockcrawling, wanting to do a gear change, crappy gas mileage. It came with these tires when I bought it and after a year and a half, I am done with them. I just want to go out with my 4x4 and explore.
Thanks for the great video.
I appreciate your description of why you chose this size. I ran the LT235/85-16 re-treads from TireRecappers on my '05 Rubicon and was quite pleased. Right now we're running the 265/70-15 Coopers on our Disco II since I don't have a lift yet and these are snowpeak rated
you ever take the 235/85/16s on the sand? how did they do? was thinking about getting some vs 265/75/16
@@yourchava Only in the mud - no sand. When I aired down I lost a bit of height due to less air volume hence the 33's
You're absolutely correct here, skinny is far better. 40 odd years ago a land rover off road guy told my dad skinny tyres create more ground pressure and therefore don't sink. The big tyre boy's don't believe me haha. I'm on 245/75/R16 on my disco 2, perfect for me.
I love the pizza cutters. I've always ran tall skinnies when I could. I just ordered a set of Atlander Roverclaw MTs in that same size for my 95 F350. I'm running cooper Discoverers in 265 now but wanted to get back to the 235s
Enjoyed your video, I previously had 265 75 16 on my D2 drove to Iceland and when I returned to London I dropped down to to 245 75 16 major difference felt sick by the look but as you say terrific improvement overall
Great video.. I changed out my
37’s for 34/ 9/ 17… and agree with about everything you just posted.. one thing I do love is how clean my jeep stays now..!!
Lol
Pretty thorough evaluation -- thanks! Been looking at this exact size in an even lighter(!) all terrain, E load-rated tire -- the Firestone Destination X/T @ 39 ibs. Slightly less tread depth than average (14/32). Buyers don't find them all that great for highway use (only fair to middling steering and some high-pitched road noise), but ice and light snow traction is above average for a non-winter tire, and it likely has most of the other off-road benefits you cite.
Yeah you are absolutely right I think a lot of people don't understand that ground clearance you can also think of as static ground clearance... And that your true ground clearance comes into play while you're actually moving which gets into the angles- how good are your angles.... And basically to me the better your angles are the more likely you are to maintain the clearance that you have while moving.
I'm fitting the same tyres on my 2003 Mazda Bravo tomorrow. I'm comming back from 265 75 16s so same night but going narrower for the same reasons. great vid, thanks.
They look fine. Our D1 does so much better since we sent from the 265/75's to 245/75's, not to mention you can actually make a turn in a parking lot without looking like Austin Powers!
Yeah, the turning radius improved a lot. I'm getting more used to the look.
I run mine on 205/80x16. She goes anywhere.
Always loved the tall skinnies. More of a utilitarian/military look. I honestly think they look better on most rigs than wide tires sticking way out.
As others have said, here in the UK this tyre size is considered normal. For Disco’s they sometimes need a 1” lift via spacers under the springs and the ‘Camel cut’ to their rear wheel arches.
Also you’ve only lost 1/2” of ground clearance due to the tyres. Dropping an inch from the air springs would mean less pressure so more articulation as we see here. Jeep Wrangler 2 door is 96” wheelbase, 4 door 116” Disco 100”. Some 7” steelies with a better offset will do nice.
The tall/narrow vs fat/wide argument as been going for ever!
Enjoy :-)
Good points. If you check out my latest video, you can see the steelies I ended up with. Really liking the combo of skinny tires on steel wheels.
Nice job and review. This is the Defender tyres size and look where have gone and still go. Onmy 94 Honda Crossroad (D1) went from 265/75-16 to 235-85-16 and had way more power, easy to street and rolling momentum also changed. Plus my fuel consumption dropped. Goes so many places.👍
Hello From Ireland 🇮🇪 I had 235 85r16 in my Land Rover Defender DCPU and they drove amazing, I only put 235 85r16 Toyo Open Country MT on it this week. This will be the widest and tallest i will go on the Landy as they are the best size of tyre overall. I brought the Toyo out to the standard arches with now steel wheels with a Zero offset so it really looks beefy so its a win win.
Another great thing about a skinny tire, is you can usually fit a taller size (which equates to more ground clearance) than with a wider tire on a vehicle before it rubs something.
I got a new f150 last year and have been upgrading things for road trips and backcountry camping. My first tire upgrade was to 315/70 17 and the clearance was closer than I liked with the UCA, so I sent the tires back. I decided to go with 275/70 18 and those new wheels and tires are on their way.
Initially I was fixated on the cool factor, but then came to my senses. Excessive tire weight can cause ride issues and overwhelm the suspension, plus sap a tone of power and reduce gas mileage and range. Off Roaders in Africa and Australia have been successfully using relatively small tires since the beginning. Moderate size tires fit my requirements much better than large tires.
Large tires are superior in specific situations like rock crawling and situations that need floatation (soft/loose sand and deep mud).
Great video. I have always run skinny tires here in the UK. Running 255/70/17 on my pick up.
I went against the grain on my Jeep and went with a 245 75 R 17 down from a 35” 12.5 wide tire! Huge difference! It’s like a totally new vehicle!
I have 235/85 R16 KO2s on my 02 Tacoma. I love them. Better gas mileage. Still kick butt off road. Total width reduction for 4 tires compared to 265s is 200 mm. That's almost the width of another tire. I think it's a little quieter because of less tread hammering the road.
I have gone back to OEM size tires and wow is it so much better off-road. Low range is slower, and on sand I'm not bulldozing the sand as much, so it's more fuel efficient. I fell for the marketing before, but at least now I'm more the wiser.
Now let's say you're doing really extreme stuff I'm not sure where you drive but I drive in Southern Arizona up really Rocky rutted halfway crawling halfway sand halfway loose gravel crazy stuff and right now 285 75 16 when I air them down to 20 or 25 psi they are absolutely wonderful I drive a discovery Series 2 with CDL and traction control. I just can't imagine going more skinny I mean I know it exists but compared to a Rubicon two-door and four-door factory tire size if you look in my profile picture the 285.75 are about what a stock Jeep has and they build those Jeeps pretty smart as far as lockers sway bar disconnects solid axles still so I figured they know what they're doing. I guess my question to you is besides feeling a little more responsive and easier through the sand do you really think it's better when the going gets tough and you're going up some crazy stuff you should probably have lockers to go up but you're used to doing it so you just do it? I feel like with my current width being not that wide depending on who you talk to but apparently wide on this video they grip length and width over the rocks and I hardly ever slip I just Cruise right up things perfect I can't imagine it getting better but everyone says go even more narrow I mean is there a limit? LOL can't just keep saying go more narrow what if everyone went more narrow and then 30 years from now we say hey let's go even more narrow like where does it stop? I know the old rigs were more narrow but they were also a lot lighter and they didn't cruise up really extreme things with slow ease the way we do now with wider tires then they had not super wide just wider.
I put the exact same size for the exact same reasons on my '06 Sequoia. Haven't regretted it at all. Still 1.1 inch taller than the stock size.
There is a reason why the 4x4 were usually equipped with pizza cutters - Land Rover even used in the desert skinnies as Toyota did with the 62, 80, 100 or Nissan with the patrol
All game viewing vehicles in Africa use skinny tyres, narrow with high profile. The same for farming tractors. Skinny tyres help reduce rolling resistance, reduces unsprung weight which aides in better fuel economy and less wear on the gearbox and drive train.
235/85/16 is the default Defender size. 235/70/16 is Disco2 standard, I'm considering going up to the 85, but without a lift, on the OEM 16" wheels. It SHOULD fit...
They do fit the wheels fine. It might be a tight fit without a lift though.
I used to have a Toyota 4Runner on skinny tires 235/85 16's and I really liked the way that it performed on and off road. Now I have a Jeep and it they made a skinny 35" tire I use them, but they don't.
Mickey Thompson just came out with a 255/85R17 !!! Also Kenda Klever RT has a 35x10.5R17
@@dad3562 i will have to look at both brands when I replace my current set of tires. Thank you
Guess I'm in the minority I love skinny tires, fat tires are for sports cars. Look at the old military vehicles and some modern ones, skinny tires. It's like they know something.
I have a trail jeep and the widest tire I'll consider is 255, anything wider then that I won't even give a second look. I run on all surfaces and the skinny tire is best on just about all. You get better trail range, I find them easier to control, you don't need to air down as much to get the same contact patch, I can run 20psi when others have to go down to 10 or even less, I've never broke a bead. I can wheel all day with out refueling, and can go over anything. If you saw my jeep you would know instantly the last thing I care about are looks. Mother nature has done more to modify the look of my jeep then I ever will.
Makes sense to me. If you go watch the camel trophy videos all the defenders and I think the discovery’s had way skinny tires. I think it’s a good look 👍
Thanks. I wish I mentioned that in the video. Totally forgot. But yeah, Camel Trophy used even narrower tires than mine. Good point.
@@fitzventure IIRC the RRC &D1 ran 7.5R16 in the CT. I did see a CT vehicle in the early 90s with 205R16. However not the Dunlop SP Qualifier I believe the CT crew ran
I totally agree with you but right now I have 285 75 16 and yeah it's wider than what we are talking about here but is it really too wide? I mean My Discovery Series 2 has a 2 inch lift and it moves those tires wonderful I never get stuck I fly over sand I go up Rocky rutted awesome things around 20 to 25 psi and I just can't imagine it getting better with something skinnier? I know in comparison to Jeeps two door and four-door I have about their stock size and they go much wider so if they go much wider then isn't mine considered narrow relatively speaking? Where do we draw the line at how narrow to go? I don't really have the money to just go out and buy 255 85 16 to compare them to my 285 75 16. When the truck is parked like on my profile picture the 285/75 don't really look huge. Yeah they could be more narrow but they could really be much wider so who's to say going wider than what you have is better if what you already have seems relatively narrow compared to other rigs? Now what if those camel trophy Vehicles had a little wider but more power maybe they would have done even better? I see other 4x4 Vehicles doing extraordinary things with wide tires or at least as wide as mine so I don't know how I would really like to see identical Vehicles perform tasks aired down to the same PSI and go on the same extreme terrain not just basic hard pack stuff and see what actually does better. I don't deny the science behind it I'm just saying mine are relatively narrow even though we are calling them wide in the Land Rover Discovery World and on this video and others like it that's all I'm saying maybe they are narrow enough maybe there is a such thing as too narrow?
By the 1960's the majority of places that are wheeled today had already been wheeled on skinny tires with no lift. I have heard old men talk about this since I was a little kid in the late 70's. I know skinny tires are superior in snow on the road. The looks thing is a hangup I don't suffer from. What preforms well is what looks good to me.
I’ve got a 61 109 series two. It’s back on the 750 16s that it should have on steel rims. No prop angle issues, chassis clearance issues, looks” right”.
Stock Rover. Mum knows best!
They look cool, as in functionally cool, honestly, it's a North American thing, in many other parts of the world the smaller more functional tyres are common.
I had ex military tires on my county Defender 86. Model which were lugged tyres ,I 16 inch standard rim and it has even been on long beach runs never been bogged daughter. Drove most of the time when she was young.
The more lift, the less articulation for the tires. Tinkerer's adventure has a great video on this.
235/85R16 is perfect. No spacers, and lots of performance. Good choice.
I like your style I went from 285 75 16 which is a 33" tyre to a bigger tyre but I went for the skinny size which was a 35 10.50 16 and I was shocked, the weight difference was the 35" tyre weight was less heavier than the 33". So in the way of your saying, I got the best of both worlds.
High profile skinny tyre : increase contact patch by deflating tyre. What matters is the overall length of the contact patch, not width.
An interesting but useless piece of trivia: In Australia, new Land Cruiser 70 series come with Bridgestone 225/95/R16's
Wow. That’s skinny.
I like a 235/85r16!! I run Super Swamper TSL Radials 265/80r16. They work really well.
Skinny is definitely better all around, exspesily in deep snow or icy conditions. I pass big jacked up trucks with obnoxious wide tires stuck in the snow with my little Skinny tall tired tacoma
I ran 235/85/16 KO2s on my Toyota TRD Offroad. Best decision ever. Better mpg, better in mud and snow equal to my 265/70/16 in sand.
Now running 255/80/17 on my Jeep JKU Rubicon.
You done right. MT/AT Pizza cutters are all the rage here in Thailand.
HAHAHAHA..smaller tyre haha. really good video- thanks
- smaller tire!
- you yanks crack me up 😊It seems that the USA spec vehicles have steped up to meet the tyre culture of the region
- In many places aroud the word, the OEM spec Discovery 2 tyre is 235/70R16 (yes I am aware that wider tyres (up to 255 in Australia )of lower profile are also OEM spec option)
- The 235/85R16 is a taller tyre of the OEM spec and is the standard OEM tyre for the old landrover defender (mid 1980s to mid 2010s era).. These are very capable off road tyres in their own right.
you will find that the 85% profile will not be as good on road and still impact on the acceleration on the discovery . But then again coming from the 285s you will think these are tiny!
- I would have thought the 285s would have cause clearance issues(tyres contacting the vehicle) unless the vehicle is lifted.
-What lift does your vehicle have? Do you have wide angle unis on the front prop shaft?
The narrow tyres require less power to drive in soft conditions
- as you let the pressure down, you get a longer more narrow contact patch of the same area as aired down wider tyres
I like the look of the skinny tires better. All the vehicles used in African bush use the skinny tire. Real world.
An additional advance of,thinner tires over wide ones, especially for over landing, is,thinner tires not only have a thinner footprint, but it is longer, and in many cases,you have a larger contact area. Cheers
Know a guy who escorts people across the Simpson desert for a living and he uses skinnies. That kinda confirmed my belief in skinnies. Well said about centre of gravity also.
They look great!
Actually it's only half an inch of clearance you lost. And I'm running the same size tyres on my 2017 Ford Ranger PX2 down here in Australia.
The narrower tyres a when aired down create a longer foot print than the wider tyre so they actually have either the same surface area or more than the wider tyre. So there would be very little difference between the two when driving in sand. Keep the alloys, less unsprung weight! Remember, it's only looks!!!
So glad you let go of your ego and made the right choice always choose function over fashion fashion is for fools
Tyre pressure a bit high, try 36 - 38 depending on what weight you carry around.
Bigger tires was mainly a style trend the performance is a factor but it's mostly for looks
you could have your cake and eat it too with 16's for the Disco. 255 85 16's are a 33.4" and much narrower than your former 285's.
For the last several years I've had the exact same size on my D2, with the 6.5" LR steelies. It was like adding power steering. So much better in every way, like you said. I have the E load Falken At3's and run between 32-42psi, depending on load. Any more and you need to wear a mouth guard ; )
So true. I didn’t even mention the improved steering ease or the improved turning radius. So many benefits.
wjsj69 - Which steelies did you get? I was told that the standard LR Wolf wheels wouldn't clear the brakes on the D2.
@@rbardsley They are steel wheels for a Honda Odyssey van. Watch my latest video for some explanation of that.
Painting over that beautiful rare orange, now that's sacrilegious
It wasn't orange. It was red. If it was the orange, I would have re-painted it.
big tires work for mud sand not so much for snow but they work and yes they weigh alot and effect your gas milage but i like the look on my xj
That's why I put 275 65 20 in my 2014 Tundra crewcab 4" lifted, with fuel rims. Not crazy larger tires with acceptable clearance.
This is nothing new to Land Rover owners.. might be to US made 4x4 owners. So your just doing what old Land rover people have always done...
Yeah I've come to the conclusion a set of 235\85-16s on 7inch rims, I like the look of the Goodyear duratrac, I've heard nothing but good things about them and because of the square tread it makes them look wider. Get a set of rims that have 30mm negative offset gives your disco wider stance, looks tougher and is more stable.
I kind of wish I got the Duratracs for that very reason. I have a wheel video coming soon.
@@fitzventure sweet, just subscribed.
@@Ronhickmott Thanks.
The new thinner tires do not look goofy, to me the bigger, oversize tires on vehicles looks goofy and unbalanced. Cheers
You DO have more travel! Less weight is required to "squish" the skinnier tires because they support less load than wider tires. I'm actually thinking about ditching the 265 65 17 tires for 245 75 17 tires when these wear out and then maybe using wheel spacers. Independent suspension doesn't flex that much. When you're dealing with about 7 inches of travel , just 1 inch of tire "squish" will increase flex more than 10%.
I've been doing some experiments and I'll tell you another trick. When you drop your tire pressures... Either go up about 4 pounds on the front or go down 4 lb more in the rear... Usually it's the back tires that won't compress that well if you don't have a lot of weight back there because the engines in the front... You can gain some tire flex by doing lower tire pressures in the rear.
In fact ....
I did some corner travel index tests with 22 PSI all the way around... And then I did test with 26 in the front 22 in the rear... It actually performed better with 26 in the front and 22 in the rear... the reason was because I needed some rear weight shift because my problem was that I wasn't getting enough tire compression in the rear.
There is a threshold though... I kept raising the front pressures until I hit 29 and then it started lifting again... So do create a difference between the front and the back... But don't create too much...
If you get some rhino ramps and put them diagonal to each other you can drive your vehicle up on the ramps and just manipulate the tire pressures until you get what you want.... And now you know your ideal flex pressures for off-road...
Awesome. Great advice. I'll have to experiment more with tire pressure.
Great tyre choice.
You could have also tried a 255-85-16 about 34 inches tall?
💂all land rover since the year dot+ have been driven produced with slimmer wheel's than most vehicles today and been used in every country in the world by military & still being used 🍻💂
I love the 235/85R16, but it is not a fit (lookwise) for your Land Rover. A smaller body can make pizza cutters look good. Still, you have benefits in your new tire size.
What if my official tires size is
225 60 16
And I am planning to replace them with
215 60 16
Is that a good idea for better gas mileage?
Do you think it can effect the handling?
I'm not familiar with those sizes so I really can't say.
They look awesome! THIS is cool looking and I mean it. Have you considered a modest wheel spacer to maybe compensate visually? By modest I mean a 3/4 inch spacer.
I ended up going with a different tire after almost 2 years of these. You can see them in my latest video.
Duratracs and wild peaks look good if that’s what you’re looking for.
I am wishing I had chosen the Duratracs. They do look really good.
Wish I could find a 33x9.50r15 mud tire for my xj .
Disco looks better with the pizza cutters
I love this disco !!! I'm defo coping you paint skeem soz..
Looks way better.
All the Camel Trophy Discos ran skinny tires.
I run 245/75-16 on my Disco 1. One of the big benefits of skinnies is less/no rubbing at full flex, too.
You only lost .5" of ground clearance. Next time get a 235/85r16 mt. They will look cooler..
Yeah, for the next tire set, I'll probably go for an MT. Definitely has a cooler look.
Based. Thanks for sharing this rarely told logic.
Thanks for the info 🤙🏼
Thanks for sharing, like your video
I'd take this a step further: E rated tire 👎 for 99% of us. I love my 255/75/17 C rated tires. Yes it's a 32. Yes I can go anywhere a 33 can. C rated are light. I average 17.9mpg in my Seqouia! And I tow 4000 lbs often
the steelies will add to the weight you worked so hard to reduce, I would keep the ones you have already.
You would think so, but nope. The steelies are 2 pounds lighter than the aluminum wheels. I weighed them.
@@fitzventure I’m really surprised , are they like for like in terms of their load baring capacity and other such characteristics
@@dimitristsagdis7340 Yeah, same payload capacity. I have used and abused them and no issues so far.
@@fitzventure Enjoy then :-) what is they make as I'm also in the market for some 18inch steelies if they make them at that size.
@@dimitristsagdis7340 Mine are 16". They are Honda Odyssey mini van wheels. Not sure where to find 18's.
Tire pressure: elaborate please? The suggested from LR for our discos are like 26 and 46 fr and rr I think. What’s your perspective. Just subscribed to your page… gotta catchup.
Tire pressure on LT tires runs higher than the P metric tires the Disco comes with. Running 40 - 45 is pretty typical for an LT tire.
If you mt's were 33inch and the new tyres are 32inch havent you lost half an inch ground clearance?
Not exactly sure, but I did take out 1 inch of lift too.
any change in fuel consumption?
Not really, unfortunately.
@@fitzventure i am currently on 265/75 on my discovery 2 but i am really a big fan of skinny tall tires haha (ok beisdes the look obviously on a disco), on my defender i used to have 7.5x7.5 which is an old size i guess but its almost the same as a 235/85 and they were fantastic offroad (and on).
when i was buying for my disco i was reaaally unsure what to get but then decided to go with the 265. now its not massive but was still interesting to see if there is less fuel consumption on a skinny tire, i assume there is less rolling resistance.
currently my consumption is not great haha
thanks for the video!
Sounds like you should stick with a factory D2 body and tire setup. Maybe get the air springs instead of coils. Only say this as I think you terrain your driving is probably not required. I have to disagree, I went from skinny’s to mid width and slightly bigger. It’s still not big enough on tougher terrain especially when the big trucks have ripped holes and gaps in the terrain. 100% agree about on road characteristics, skinny’s are better. This is not my daily driver so I’m happy to have shitty on road drive to get into the mountains
Music to my ears. On or off road, people are paying stupid money, and adding ridiculous weight, based mainly on the look. Narrows conform to the ground better and the greater amount of sidewall relative to tread does you a lot of favours. Most people do not seem to realise that sidewall is important. Why would you not want to save unsprung weight AND save money at the same time? Contact patch size is complicated: might be similar area with similar pressure but better (longer) shape. Steels are the best.
Spot on!
Who knew that logic & common sense were controversial?
Big fat heavy more resistant tires are a retailer scam. An amateur hour, mall crawler, garage queen specialty!
Q: Don't steelies weigh more than your alloys?
✌🏽🤙🏽👍🏽🍻!
Wide tires in many types snow conditions don't work as well as narrower tires.
I agree with you 100%
Do Rovers have acceleration? 😅
Not much.
Man great video! So right now I'm running 285 75 16 if you look at my profile picture. So I've been having this debate in my mind thinking yeah my tires are kind of wide but only in the Discovery World overall are they really that wide? I'm considering going 255 85 16 it would actually be very slightly taller but much narrower. Not to compare things to a Jeep but even a shorter Rubicon two-door with a similar wheelbase comes stock with something about as big as 285 75 16 and Jeep seems like they know what they're doing so it makes me wonder are the Land Rover guys in the UK that preach narrow narrow narrow just getting hung up on old series Rovers and Willie's which could do narrow because they were so lightweight? I do get the concept of less rolling resistance and when you air down a nice long patch still along with better contact pressure but I wonder if there is a formula to figure out based on the weight of the vehicle and the wheelbase what would the best be because I really don't feel like mine are very wide they're just wider then going skinny if that makes sense. Like what if there's too skinny? Like it cuts in with all the extra pressure and what if a little wider floats over but still has enough pressure because it's not too wide see what I mean? Again I look to the two-door Jeep factory tire size and I think they're not crazy wide they're about as wide as with the Land Rover guys call too wide so I'll watch your whole video I just started it!
I actually ended up settling on 265/75 R16's. I used the skinnies for a year but never could get used to the look.
@@fitzventure yeah I totally hear you! I think when is the time I'll try 255 85 and modify the fenders
@@fitzventure or maybe not. I don't know I feel like the Disco Community just considers wide something that rubs without trimming but I don't think we should but instead the weight of the vehicle because if you compare the old examples those Vehicles were much lighter than ours maybe mine are the equivalent at my weight to the old Willies having something skinnier. I bet you if mine didn't rub to begin with all of the European disco Community wouldn't think they are considered wide just medium
IMO, the tall/skinny looks much more professional (and therefore cooler) to me. Look at military Defenders or Camel Trophy trucks vs. guys out swamping in their Wranglers. Nothing wrong with the latter, just doesn't look as cool to me.