Aero Testing || Trying to find Speed
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ต.ค. 2023
- Some aero testing to become a faster athlete.
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Video by Talbot Cox
/ talbotcox
www.talbotcox.com/ - กีฬา
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Could've watched an hour more of this episode!😊
Thank you for posting this video! It's very rare we (non pros) get a chance to see how this is done
Lionel's transparency from his level AND coming from his latest realization about himself is just so profound. 🙌🙌🙏🙏❤❤
Hopefully Lionel will go to Indian Wells to do some testing there as well. I know he said he didn't want to race until he improved all around but with this being the end of the season in NA it would make sense to go there and test out his 'new' position. At least for the bike anyway.
I love that kind of guys, calm, clear and just telling facts ! You found yourself a good person to help you get faster Lionel ! Let's go, let's see what you can do in races to validate that ! 🔥
This is absolutely great content, as someone who doesn't have time or resources to do this testing, it's great to get to understand how it works!
So interesting. Love seeing this side of triathlon
I don’t know how you don’t have more followers, Lionel. I’m far from a triathlete and I still love your content, the film editing is great and your perspective and demeanor are awesome. Thanks for such a great channel!
I like these videos, Lionel. Show us as much as possible before you get back to racing. We all want to see you win big races because you deserve it. I'm really excited to see where the data and the upcoming changes will lead you. Cheers!
Great testing and sports review! 🔥
We really appreciate your work 👍
Its so much fun seeing you testing again and at the same time so interesting as well. Cant wait to see you race again. Would be awesome if you go to Indian Wels just to do some testing and see how your position improved your bike split! Cant wait to see more of this content!!
I'm so happy for you Lionel that you are finally getting some answers that will definitely improve your performance.
Love Lionel's full transparency! All these years of racing and he is still finding new ways to improve and share. Ride on!
Now at the end you can appreciate your work and result, happy it finished on a good note
This video is why we watch this guy. Great work boys - keep it coming.
Those gains from one session are crazy and inspiring... Need to find me a tester
you can do this by yourself if you hava a powermeter. just find a quiet road thats a straight line and at least 3-5km long and go back and forth a few times and put the data into a formular. then repeat the same day with different setup and gear and you will get pretty good results. also apps like „mywindsock“ can help. that way I came down to roughly 0.21 on my roadbike with aero bars.
Every time I see an upload , I stop everything to watch!! Best in the business!!!
Incredible content. Love how Lionel explains things - the guys who know...
Great (and optimistic) information Lionel! I noticed that in the past few races you've been using a water bladder in your kit, but in this video you weren't using it. Are you ditching it fully or just waiting to test it later in the aero tunnel/velodrome?
Great vid, just had to say it, more like this please! That is a crazy improvement already
excited for the results. its gonna be epic!
Hahaha this is gold! The amount of oneliners while keeping the cool attitude is astonishing. On the inside he is full of joy and hope, but the guy got to keep it cool, it's what he does hahaha
Thank you for sharing. Your so good for this sport.
Great initiative. Tks for sharing champ.
Great video and great insights. It will be fascinating to see the output of Lionel’s ride in Indiana Wells.
Wish I had a flat road like that to test. Only ice roads in the winter are flat here 😂. But def gonna turn my sticks down and see what happens. Thanks for the vid!
Let’s go lionel, another piece of the puzzle keep on grinding till you can put together a complete race
Glad to see you in the lab testing. Can’t wait to see you at Indian Wells now!
What lab?
Figure of speech. Not a physical lab. Same way basketball players say “in the lab” when they mean they’re on a basketball court 🤷🏻♂️
Lionel, very cool video. I think this DEFINITELY deserves a follow up vid on the #s and what your race #s look like!
Really fascinating stuff.
This is fascinating!
Lionel go all the way on this, find out what the best are doing and go all in. You deserve the best feedback to perform your best, go data nerd, full send!
Good news ..BUT ..not once did they talk about his leg position and how far out his knees point. I would love him to have run one test with knees tight to the top tube like the pro peloton does
Nice .... great insight and content.
So interesting! This has to give you a huge shot of optimism.
"When Lionel figures it out, we're all in trouble" - Jan Frodeno 2021
Thanks Lionel!
Some classic Lionel yapping in this one. 😂
Love Lionel. Hope the best for him in life
F#@king love this guy! Could watch these vlogs all day, thanks for another great video legend
loving this content
Finally a guest this channel is worthy of :)
Undoubtedly thorough data 🚴♂️
Watching while typing, you've got to let him finish talking, he's not putting you down just trying to help you. When you get asked are you excited about starting to figure arm position & better CDA your reply is "No", common be a little positive, geez, gloom and doom, but I'm so excited to see you getting this done. Good luck on the rest of your testing, lets get this figured out, good luck
OMG! When will he actually believe the DATA!!
LS is an inspiration to us all...but dude, trust what you tested and be excited about figuring it out! Always so negative and looking for the other shoe to fall.
thorough data!
Take a shot every time Lionel says "data" for a fun friday night you certainly won't remember. Excited to see how your progress transforms over the next few months!
But he dropped the UNDOUBTEDLY though. 😂
@@karlosfandango6637 undoubtedly means a 5 second chug
Awesome content here!
I could have watched a series of videos on optimizing bike position, perhaps even the same with running, nutrition, and other aspects of triathlon -- series idea? Thanks for posting this!
As a canyon sponsored athlete why haven't you been to Koblenz and tested with the guys from Canyon? They do it with Laura, Patrick and Jan
Good question!!
Mysteries of the world
I think he said he didn't want to go outside of his comfort zone and travel there. Note that Laura, Patrick and Jan are all Germans.
@@jank4809 Chelsea has been here and Kat as well when they were picked up as athletes. I would even assume Lionel is so high profile they would send someone to the US for him.
He said Canyon offered him that service. Maybe he's a conspiracy theorist and thinks they won't give him the best aero fit. At this point I have no idea why he's not taken them up on this offer. Also someone mentioned he didn't want to be out of his comfort zone (Mr. No Limits 🤦♂️) , but fact is he went to the European Championships so could have just popped in after that race for testing. Again why he chose not to do that, when he said he needed aero testing only he, his wife and maybe Talbot know.
Agree with others, I could watch an hour long feature of this stuff! Canyon not tempted to make a feature film?
I love the praying mantis/ Floyd Landis reference !
Super interesting to watch! Triathlon is getting nerdy. Gründlichkeit zahlt sich aus
👍
Next week.... I have disregarded all wind testing results and I am changing bikes going back to my 2015 road bike and just powering thru.... Great video though and I hope to see Lionel back on top soon!!!!! Just wish he would follow his own advice and find his power.... Love to see him just burn it on the bike!!!!
I will say that before 2016 is purely because of Lion's luck. I think at that time most people are not be aware of how important aerodynamic is. So right now bar is getting higher so all those testing I think has its value. Also interesting if it has all those all set up and put them together as a new test and to see how the results looks like. It's going to be really interesting.
Top! Thanks for sharing! :-)👋
Real ones know 😁
Undoubtedly.
Video had some editing issues for those asking, that is why they reuploaded.
Those 2 make such a great and cooperative team 😜 Aero facts and Lionel the machine 😉 Facts over fiction or fiction topping facts!! Outliar conclusions for those who know.
Not that anyone is asking, but (got to love the random guy commenting, right?) as an experimental physicist I would never discuss the data while recording it. It creates bias in your interpretation and probably also on his behaviour on the bike.
Oh boy. Getting dialed in. Here comes the Canadian Terminator
This is great
Do more videos like this!
great insight! I expected you to retest the baseline in the end. The findings were really really big. retesting baseline at the end could have given more confirmation that it wasn't a fluke
Guess those POC helmets are gonna be sold out now 😂, love the vids keep them coming !!
It's all from Quick Step....
This is amazing. Really amazing shit.
great content
New Lionel T-shirt line THOROUGH DATA
This is so satisfying to my nerdiness
Ah, the Landis camp (high hands) vs. the Armstrong camp (flat/negative hands). Endless battle. Amazing how 1 position can work for some, and be terrible for others.
Exactly. I have friends who are huge fans of high hands and I always point to Jan as an example showing it's really more complex than we think.
Yeah, I agree. Actually, you can combine them together. You have high hands, you have neck to flat hands, and also you have those crazy helmet. I believe for a certain body's position, sometimes you're going to have positive impact on your aerodynamic using a type of helmet. Under a given body position, but it might change if you're doing different, let's say, the environment. So if you're more flat, you're one direction, your angle, if you're considering to the scenario, it's a lot of things you can play with.
The second career of Lionel begins.
i'm not super familar with the CFM models and the pro racer power numbers but gaining free speed for turning a wrench and moving some parts with numbers to back them up is insane. well met sir.
So here we are talking about the air dynamics. It's more like finding the lion's body position to reduce drag. Also, he's fighting for, you know, when you change your body position, your ability to generate a certain power is going to be changed. So it's about finding that balance.
more of this content plz
Damn, that's a lot of time. Curious of Cam Wurf's CdA now, having that WT background!
Super cool!
What is the device called used to measure environmental conditions? Can we get close to do this research on our own?
How much did the helmet swap change things? Really enjoying this btw.
Can you aero test your swim stroke? 😊
As far as from public knowledge, getting the direct value, let's say the force, is already on the water is not that easy. But for the water, we have more control kind of environment than the second part. And also there's less things we can fine-tune about it. It's mostly about changing your body position instead of those external equipment compared to the bike. In the bike, there's a whole bunch of studies on these things, the bike equipment, the positions, etc.
Let’s go Lionel!! Come back my brother! #ibelieve
fascinating video, probably the best one so far this year.
When you refer to the baseline "high hands" position, what angle are we talking about? Sounded like the new lower hand position is 15 degrees.
Looks like Lionel has also moved away from the geobiomized stride saddle. Is that a PN 3.0 on the bike now or something else?
yes, he used a PN 3.1 (I think). His reach was extended and he tried to rotate his pelvis a bit. He was previously angled a bit over 25 deg (probably 27) and moved to 15. His hands were also positioned differently. So there was more than just angle going on, but that was the bulk of it.
@@marcgraveline1771 Thanks for replying! Despite being open about how often he has changed his position one thing he has not talked about is how often he has changed his saddle. I think on the Canyon we've seen him use the PN 3.0/3.1, bisaddle, a fizik saddle of some kind, the geobiomized saddle and now back to the PN. Would be interesting to know what Lionel has liked and disliked about these saddles and how it has maybe influenced some of the position changes and ultimately his cda, as I would think hip rotation is going to play a big role in how good of a position he can get himself into. I notice the saddle is slammed all the way back suggesting he's trying to really ride off the front and relieve soft tissue pressure? There might be another saddle he hasn't tried that would help with this.
Acá esta claro lo que es producción de watts versus aerodinámica, además esta es una prueba en campo y no en un laboratorio, bien por Lionel 👍🇨🇦
This is gold
Why don’t you have personalised aero bars? Supposedly makes huge difference
Marcag in the house!
The poc is good but you have to keep your head very still otherwise it messes everything!
glad this is back
so good data lets see how 2024 turns out
Wout Van Aert still rides with relatively flat hands. VIngegaard has quite flat hands as well. They have definitely been to the wind tunnel and have tested it thoroughly.
Uci limits the tilt. There isn’t the restriction in triathlon
Man I got my CDA down from 0.250 to 0.210 in an hour on the track with Bigham... That was in 2017, I feel a bit sorry for Lionel here that he's so far behind the curve with aerodynamics, it's torture to see this take DAYS in 2023 and why it's not been done sooner. Madness
indoor our outdoor track? indoor is a more controlled environment
Indoor track
Come to Silverstone UK and get tested.
@lionel, why don’t you try your Garneau bike where you were fast?
Is that a new speedmax bike? I liked the green colour
Hey everyone. Can anyone tell me what the device is that Lionel uses to check his lactate numbers?
And where can I go to calculate that for my own training?
Thx!
Are you going to test with the bladder in the front of your skinsuit?
yes. It is on the list, a very long list.
That's a nice guy, calm, I'd have told LS to piss off given some of his comments.......
Getting there..
did I miss the 48hours with KB?
Imagine Mark Allen, Dave Scott, Scott Tinley, Scott Molina watching this and comparing it to how things were back then! Crazy how things have changed. I miss the old days 😢
imagine those athletes on today's technology. Not fair comparing times from the early 90s to 2020s right?
How about Wahoo Speedplay pedals? They have a lower stack so you can basically lower your entire bike setup...
There was a brief moment in this video when Lionel heard his numbers that he was speechless. It made me laugh. You could tell he just didn’t know what to say…..I believe that’s a first for him!! 😂
Point two three? Jesus, Lionel, you're going to get a LOT faster. Just gotta futz with the setup and get the data.
When they were testing the best position there seemed to be a bit more wind, which if it was mostly crosswind would result in a lower CdA due to the sail effect...
you have a good eye. A couple of things. The tests were done over 3 days. This was day 2. Day 3 had no wind. Wind speed and yaw were always measured and their impact interpreted in the report for Lionel. Yes, some of those inter day gains were yaw related. At the end of the day, these tests simply guide him to other tests. Multiple road tests in race simulation will confirm the progress he made.
This is a very good question, so when you have a yaw angle involving hair you're arguing essentially it's reducing the drag as they become more streamlined and become more efficient. But I don't know, because the measurement, I believe he's using the Pitot tube or some sort of similar equipment to measure the wind speed at his hand, so that measurement is just the velocity that is in line with his body position. For the power meter, it doesn't have any influence on how much power you're generating in different Yaw angle case. I'm not sure this is inherent features of this Yaw and Go. I believe there's still literature about how those things should be considered properly.
it is all about aero - right decision to look for improvements - cda 0,198... WOW!