HEATED DEBATE: Was Mourinho BETTER Than Wenger?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2023
- @AdamMcKola, @RoryJenningsFootball & @Buvey debate the legacies of Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho and decide which one was better in the Premier League.
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Not an arsenal fan, but i hate this "wenger no trophies" blurb. Few would say paisley > shankly (just at liverpool), yet paisley won more trophies. Its a very modern "trophy hype" way to look at things.
Paisley was the tactician, Shankly was the man manager, Shankly stayed loyal to a group of ageing players for years and didn't win as much
Everyone would say Bob over Bill wtf
it's also just wrong. he did win trophies during an era of absolute dominance from united. Wenger did it the old fashioned way, building an elite squad with smart signings and youth development.
Most from what I know would go Paisley but anyway...
This Rorry guy is actually brain dead 😂 Wenger had to sell his players while mourunho had the best players in the world. Van persie was injury prone at Arsenal
Did he also have the best players in the world when he was winning UCL and European cups and Porto and Roma?
Wenger is nowhere near Jose man in terms of overall legacy.
That team that Wenger had that he was getting top 4 with
Chamack, Eboue, Bendtner, is hilarious
Who was picking the players?
@@colinedelman6392yea wenger fucked up, always given 100M but spent it on scrubs
@@user-qd3dy7ny8v I didn’t even know sporting directors existed in the PL till Txiki took over man city.
The managers were having control over everything and I’m glad it’s over
Who else was meant to get top 4 ?? Because to my knowledge arsenal was always the top 4 or top 5 teams in the league your acting like they had the 8th best squad in the league
😂😂😂@@user-qd3dy7ny8v
What Wenger was able to do from '06 up until probably 2016/17 with Arsenal, keeping them in the Champions League etc with those squads (Especially towards the end of his tenure) was nothing short of miraculous. On the flipside, the football he had Arsenal playing from 1996 to 2006 was unreal, revolutionised English football. Both points stand firm and I don't think Mourinho could have done either. Take nothing away from Mou though, top top class manager but success always followed after big money spent, in my opinion. Wenger third best PL manager of all time.
Alright, could Wenger dominate football in different countries whilst winning European silverware?
What even though by the end of his tenure everyone was calling for Wengers head, because he was miraculous
Bro won the champions league with porto? Wdym he’s done nothing without money?
Mourinho ain’t long term. It’s one thing having short term achievements but long term is tough. And I don’t think wenger keeping Arsenal in ucl was that special with players like Ozil sanchez cazorla Giroud Ramsey. Like these were top players at the time. It’s good but it’s overrated
Kept them in the Champions League with Chamak and Benter leading the line.
Mourinho arrived only just before Arsenal moved to the emirates, when Arsenal started spending almost nothing while Mourinho could spend at will with no FFP. Still managed to keep them in the top 4, whereas Mourinho had the most expensive squads and would win a league but if not for sackings might have left Chelsea closer to where they are now.
Mourinho won the UCL at Porto, while Wenger had the invincibles. 04. Mourinho was a better manager for winning. Period. Wenger for style.
@@Bobby.2000Mourinho also went 9 years without losing a home game.
@@kurt5079 exactly. Frankly if Jose retired at the end of 2014/15 season. I don't think people would even ask the question honestly. He won so many trophies from the 02/03 season until 14/15. It's ridiculous. 13 seasons, of which 1 was spent almost entirely out of management (07/08). He won 3 English leagues (against Ferguson and Wenger for the first two), 2 Italian leagues (against Carlo for one of those seasons), 2 Portuguese leagues, 1 Spanish leagues (up against that arguably best ever team in Barcelona with Pep). 8 titles in 12 seasons against at the highest level. Not to mention all the domestic cups and 2 UCL's and a uefa cup. He was arguably the goat manager. It wasn't even close between the two. It's only his comparative fall in the years since that have changed that view. But even then he's won multiple trophies. Including a Europa League (plus another final) and the conference league. Overall it's still not close. But in the premier league it is closers of course. But look at the titles in only 8/9 years in England, 4 spells at 3 teams. Won just as much as Wenger. Or at least very close. But Wenger was in the premier league for 22 years!! If Jose had stayed at Chelsea from 2004 until today/the last couple years. He'd be competing for Ferguson for most league titles. Obviously not quite as successful. But certainly would have more than Pep (5 titles) for instance. And 1000% he'd have won more than Wenger by a long way.
@@Bobby.2000couldn’t say it better
@@Bobby.2000the Portuguese Sean dyche football makes us sleep. Also, made united known has parkchester united 😂
How is this even a comparison? Mourinho is a serial winner in multiple countries, leagues and clubs and the biggest challenger to what was the best football team in history in Barca
Wenger never left England, why would you compare the two based on how many nations they’ve won trophies in?
@@silvio25432 Well exactly because of that. Mourinho did in England but also everywhere else
I think they’re talking about Premier League careers only, which makes it a lot closer
It's well documented that Wenger had to sign to arsenal for 5 additional years in order for the Emirates to be built . Wenger could not leave arsenal if he wanted to or not.
Wenger finishing top 4 every season with a shoe string budget is a miracle in and of itself.
Look at the money teams spend today to finish 8th.
@@mmanu6126 so Mou is better than Sir Alex bc Sir Alex only did it in England and Scotland whereas Mou did it in 5 countries? Quality over Quantity, also it’s only fair to compare on the same standards, it’s not that Wenger couldn’t have moved at times in his career, he just chose not to. To be able to stay at one club for around 20 years is an achievement in itself, something which Mou can’t speak about since he got sacked by quite a few clubs.
Get the facts correct, Wenger had 8 seasons without a trophy but even though Arsenal have not won a title in 20 years but that's still the shortest, longest gap, Man U went 26 years without a title, Liverpool 30 years, Man City about 42, Chelsea 50 and Spurs 63 and still counting.
Keep counting arsenal going well past 30
@@SSSalvage Maybe but I think Rory and Buvey need to realise that Arsenal not winning a league in 20 years is still less than half of City's and Chelsea's longest league title drought. I still have another 6 years to spout this statistic so let me enjoy it while it lasts.
@@stuartmcmillan9004 yeah i guess but i think yours is almost like Liverpools drop off, being at the top for so many years then boom 15-20 years still no title plus its still fresh. City and Chelsea no one really talks about those droughts because they were from so long ago. Especially city realistically they just popped up in the last 15-18 years and made them selves a force.
Adam gained a new found respect for sticking up for Wenger and we all know how he hates Arsenal
It’s gotta be Wenger for me. He was something special. Changed the ideology and fundamentals of football to which all managers around him and after took to his principles. Unbelievable tactician. Fiercely loyal and didn’t give up when things became difficult within the club. What he was able to accomplish with the squad he had and the owners he had to contend with was nothing short of shear brilliance!
Wont say he was a good technician but he managed his players well. Gave chances to young players, gave freedom and confidence to his team. part of the reason why he couldnt keep up in his later years as the game got more complicated
Mourinho had the greatest defensive team in Premier League history
I think what wenger was able to do with the squads arsenal had after 2012 was highly under rated. Imagine wenger got the backing arteta has back then.
Mourinho would be sacked 16 times in 20 years
wenger would finish 4th 16 times in 20 years and call it a success
If Wenger was managing Chelsea he wouldn't survive 2 months 😭😭
WENGER CHANGED THE PREMIER LEAGUE.
Rory get out of your pram son.
Just imagine if Wenger was given proper investment, he was an unbelieveable manager before 2014
I'd say before 2008, not before 2014
@@belgradewanderer he was unbelivable until the last 2 or so years. he got some absolutely atrocious squads into the champions league every year.
Got my respect for Adam now , my boy knows ball
It makes no sense when people say only money helped Mourinho, when he won the UEFA Cup and Champions League with a Porto team operating on an annual budget of peanuts and a bag of chips.
If you want to improve your team defensively - Mourinho is your guy. If you want the manager to be a coach and also a youth-team coach and also a general manager and also a president and also a media person - you go with Wenger.
No if you want to win trophies - its Mourinho. Your making it seem like Mourinho managed Stoke City and not some of the best attacking teams in Europe.
Oh he did manage them. But do you remember their style of play? I remember every single one of his teams playing extremely counterattacking football. Which is not bad, but is it total domination, absolute passing, joga bonito and complete possession football? No. And some managers are better at helping young talent - Mourinho was insane at improving teams defensively (Marcelo before Mourinho came to Real was actually terrible, 2 seasons later, Marcelo was probably the best left back in the world). If you want trophies you do not play with the children that Arsene had to play with, it is impossible to win with such a squad.
@@vangaptor lets be honest, everything you are describing about complete possession football is a bit too generous to describe Arsenal. If Barcelona, sure. The key aspect of Wenger's style of football ultimately is style without actual output. This style is good enough to get top 4 sure. But is it good enough to win trophies? No. And its funny that you mentioned how Wenger helped improve young talents. When almost all of those young talents eventually lost trust in the club to win trophies and left to do exactly that.
I agree with most of the stuff. The thing is, when you rate Mourinho, if you go for a results-based analysis (cups and tournaments won) he is a clear winner. And when you rate Wenger you should probably not do the same thing, because I think Wenger was almost never set up to win (partially his style, which relied more on the beautiful game rather than get that W, partially because he never had the resources Mourinho had post Porto). Mourinho's style - obviously not pretty, but winning. I'd bet Mourinho would not be able to do what Wenger did at Arsenal (keeping them competitive while improving the young talents) and vice-versa - Wenger almost surely would not have won what Mou did while he was at Chelsea and Inter. Completely different styles but I feel some people are way too judgemental regarding trophies won but disregard all details that paint the whole picture. My opinion on this is - you should not be able to easily say one is better than the other, but rather engage in a conversation (like we did) cause they were in completely different situations and teams and had a completely different philosophy on how to play the game.
Mourinho literally had the highest scoring team in La Liga history
Wenger changed football philosophy in ways in England and mourinho changed mentality/the way we thought of winning/how to win win at all costs, wenger beautiful football etc mourinho changed our views on defensive football
Mourinho winning CL with porto and winning the EL before that alone is a compelling case
With Mourinho fanboys it's more about his personality than anything else. Bro is so finished nowadays.
Adam GOT THE ONLY BRAIN CELLS IN THE ROOM
I think it’s so much closer, how come no one keeps in mind Jose got to spend $400 million in both Chelsea spells then almost $500 million in his ManU spell.
How can we ignore the money Chelsea and Man City have spent the last 13 years and look at those two teams dominating the last decade.
If you count Jose’s exploits outside the Prem he’s easily a better manager, but within the Prem Wenger worked miracles.
Miracles? In the space of time Wenger last won the PL, Mourinho came to Chelsea, won it twice, left and conquered Europe, and came back and won it a third time. And this talk about 'he didnt have any money' is just a red herring argument to try and equate winning trophies to being financially prudent. In that sense, Wenger is closer to Pochetino at Spurs than Mourinho - and noone compares Poch to Mourinho. Ultimately, football is about winning trophies. You cant win any argument in football while ignoring the trophies they've won.
@@fuaddanial2029comparing Wenger to Pochettino is delusional😂😂😂😂. How many trophies has Pochettino won in the prem?
@@fuaddanial2029 I clearly said counting Jose’s exploits outside the Prem he’s better. In the Prem, by your trophy logic, Wenger won more total Trophies in the Prem than Mourinho. I’m not even including the Community Shields.
@@mikesingh6099 if we're talking strictly PL titles, Mourinho won as much as Wenger did in 22 years in half that time. And funny how you still include FA Cups because you know in terms of actually winning the league, there is no real comparison. Mourinho by far knows better what it takes to win the PL than Wenger.
We know money does not always equal sucess
The streets know it's Wenger.
Is this only Prem? Or all time? If it's all time, it is Mourinho by far. Won a European Cup with Porto with players mostly from mid-table Portuguese sides and Deco, won a treble with Inter beating Pep's Barca, 95 pts and 15 goals conceded at Chelsea whilst also retaining the title and did well at Madrid, getting 100 points(Only team to get it alongside Vilanova's Barca in 2013).
Cherry picking stats🤡
@@BiggestBirdonMars Wenger's UCL? Wenger also lost a Europa league final to Galatasaray with a team that finished second in the league.
@@AK-bj6fksometimes, things are a bit more important than European trophies. If someone wins 40 domestic trophies but not a European trophy, does that mean they’ll a terrible manager?
@@dangrifdhsbxjs8424as if u are saying wenger won 40 trophies, dude won only 3 pl in fuckin 25 years,wenger is no where near Jose
@@dangrifdhsbxjs8424 Wenger only won 3 PLs in 25 years. His domestic haul isn't Pep-level to completely ignore his European exploits.
I feel quite bad for Adam in this video. He was saying genuine points, yet Rory seemed to absolutely refute every single one just because he could mention Chelsea. Arsene Wenger is astronomically clear of Mourinho in the Premier League.
Adam is a disgrace
How can he be "astronomically clear" when they've both won 3 League titles.
@@ethandraper4645 as Buvey said, Arsene Wenger (Ferguson) are the Premier League. With Jose, the Premier League is just a chapter of his career. Wenger is more successful than Jose in England.
Absolute bs. But I won't tire myself elaborating.
@@jeanlundi2141 please don’t, we wouldn’t want your brain too work to hard.
If Wenger hadn’t sacrificed his glory to build the Emirates… he’d have won at least 5 more titles and a champions league.
If if if and if
Based on what? 😄
@@maisondav1d You’re a United fan… so debating anything with you is akin to speaking to a moron.
Depends on what you want, Wenger pretty much changed the way teams played at that time and had his own brand of very attractive football, also crazy how he got top 4 consistently towards the end with some of the squads he had to work with. Of course Arsenal fans wanted him sacked for that but that’s a different conversation. Mourinho on the other hand was just a serial winner, might not be the greatest football to watch but he mostly got the job done and won everything there is to win. Tough choice but I’d go with Josè simply because you can’t deny that record and the season where his Chelsea team only conceded like 16 goals and had that absurd home record where they didn’t lose for like 4 years is more impressive than the invincible season in my opinion.
Also he won the CL with bloody Porto, Wenger couldn’t do it with Arsenal. That speaks for itself really
I feel like people overrate Wenger. He a Prem legend, but I wouldn’t say he’s on the same level or greater than Mourihno. What Jose achieved transcends him, Porto alone makes him a goat manager
He broke the hegemony of Barca also
All I know is the Arsenal v Man Utd games are still some of my favorite Premier league games as well as that amazing FA cup game.
Mourinho is so washed, but it's def Mourinho > Wenger by a small margin. Pep is the GOAT though.
City has had the best team in the world on top of having a huge budget for years now and only just managed to win the Champions league after so many tries. Wenger had the best team in the world for a couple of years only and after they moved to the Emirates when they had already regressed they had to change their whole team and continue for a decade with limited funds. Give Wenger the resources Pep has had since he's been at City (7 years) with the team he had back then and there's no way he wouldn't win the European Cup
Nice hypothetical. Too bad it’s not real and doesn’t matter. Pep is grossly clear
If you compare the money asernal had in history to man city you will see you talking bullshit asernal had more attempts to win the UCL than city they been in Europe for years and still fail people forget city made it in ucl in Mancini span that's this like a decade ago compare that with how many years did asernal play in ucl we talking 30 years or so
@@teenagestar4759 late 90’s to 2017 so that’s 20 years. Also Arsenal never had the same level of funding as City in comparison with other teams of the time. Just in England Man U had much deeper pockets followed by Chelsea and then City later on. In Europe you had much richer teams as well with the Spanish and the Italians particularly having huge spending power back then, nothing like today where the premier league dominates financially. Yes Arsenal did spend many years in the champions league but realistically they only had a period of around 5 years at most where they had a team strong enough to challenge. After that like I said it wasn’t possible due to a lack of funds to continue at the same level
These guys should debate about Wenger when they have gone through the process of building a big modern stadium without external finance and maintained same consistency of results as Wenger did with sub par players. Then they should compare Mourinho and Guardiola to him... These guys cannot undertake and deliver such projects... they can just take easy money.
Idk why everybody is acting like he had bums tho. Wenger had plenty of good players like giroud, wilshere and the likes. He had top 5 players in league positions like ozil, Sanchez and van persie. He kept them in top 4 but don’t act like he didn’t have a top 5 squad in the league outside of prolly his last 2 seasons in charge
@@austinlarrimore6542you named only two top players there, Sanchez and Ozil. Giroud is average and Wilshere was always injured. All the players he developed left before their peek.
@@noble7461 so van persie is ass now? You want more names, Aaron Ramsey, koscielny, Santi cazorla, mertersacker, nasri, sagna, and fabregas
@@austinlarrimore6542 You can name only 5 Players while other teams had 2 world class players in every position. And that was the difference in winning the league and finishing 4. There is your answer we lost out because he couldn't buy a strong enough squad. And squads win you the title not 5 decent players.
Wenger was massively handicapped by the Emirates move, what he was able to do with pretty much having to spend 0 and sell his best players year after year is mental and people completely disregard that, everyone else was spending whatever they wanted and Wenger couldn't and still finished top 4 damn near every year.
Mourinho's Different Class considering he won approximately Double the Silverware especially them miracles Jose worked with Porto combined with an extremely one sided head to head record in Jose's favour over Wenger.
Rory is an expert at handpicking certain things to suit his narrative. Conveniently leaves a lot out
Wenger: “no money”
Also Wenger: *highest paid manager in the world*
Not mentioning the corruption in that final v Barcelona is fraudulent behavior lol
With what arsene had to work with in those years after 04 he did better than most would have also changed the football landscape when he arrived and everyone laughed at him
Jose vs Wenger what splits them is invincible
Who thought adam would have the best take on arsenal and wenger ?.
The European cup final will always haunt Arsenal…. In todays game Eto is offside and I’d hope some of the ref’s decisions would be called up by VAR 😂 as good as that Barca team were it was bent. Drogba knew it we all knew it. I keep hearing inter Milan… we were the first English team to beat them at the san Siro! RVP? Sent off in a European tie for kicking a ball a few seconds after a whistle was blown.
Mourinho was a specialist with a cheque book but failed when things got hard, wenger put the club over his personal ambitions, many clubs wanted him and would have given him the resources to succeed but he remained at Arsenal and git us through the turbulent times while keeping us in the champions league, that was close to a miracle.. Mourinho has made more money from getting sacked then from his contract 😂stunts at united and spurs tells u he needs money and the best players to succeed
For me they’re fairly close but for completely different reasons. Jose has the wealth of trophies but the second half of Wengers tenure was more him managing the club itself rather than just the squad. Both are top 10 of all time
Give Mourinho and Pep the budget and the players that was given to Arsen in his period post 2006 and lets see if they can play the way his team played and stay in top 4.. Rorry is just salty his team now is in the gutter.
I believe Pep could. Ultimately Pep got his first job at Barca and had massive success. Because of that, his automatically going to be linked to big jobs at big clubs and when you go to those jobs, you get money. His never had to do it with no money, but why would he? No-one who is being successful at the top level of a career is going to deliberately drop down a rubbish level just to prove to a few people he can do it.
Mourinho couldn't because he has shown he absolutely cannot handle any adversity. He rides wave, exceptionally well, but if a ship shows any sign of going down, his the first one on the life raft.
@@GamerFlair Bro Guardiola fist year in Barcelona had these players: Yaya Toure Pique Samuel Eto'o Theirry Henry Pedro Xavi Iniesta Puyol Dani Alves and arguably the best play in history Messi ! What are you talking about!
Give Wenger Roman Abramovic and see what would have happened.
Porto - Won multiple european trophies.
Inter - dominated the league and won the CL eliminating one of the best Barca sides.
Chelsea - built the winning & ruthless mentality and core of the team that would serve them for 10-15 years.
There is no debate.
Wenger was a good manager for a period of time, but overall does not compare.
'Yeah, but money!' - He won the Europa League(Uefa cup) & Champions League with a team that had 1/10 of the budget Arsenal had.
Arsenal's decline in status and lack of European Pedigree has a lot to do with Wenger.
Mourinho > Wenger any day of the week.
Not often i agree with Adam but he's 100% right on this. Jose was great but Wenger would have won trophies at Chelsea with the money spent.
Would wenger win the champions league with Porto?
@@mathewholman927 maybe not, no doubt Jose was a great manager at Chelsea don't think he could have done what Wenger did at arsenal in terms of keeping them near the top on a shoestring budget, he'd have walked out.
@@DaleHarris-hf8js not to mention Wenger had injuries that Mourinho would have nightmares about all of his top stars post the invicibles were constantly injured Wenger built that 07/08 Arsenal side very little money and could have won the league but then you all know what happened
@@DaleHarris-hf8jsYou talk about being in the top 4 like its something to be proud of.
Rory has said the 6-0 story so many times it has become tiring. Yes we know what happened Rory.
The way id settle it is. If you have the champions league final tomoz who would you want to manage your team to win it. And its clearly mourinho all day. Big game manager knows how to win and knows how to get a result. It isnt pretty to watch but who cares if you win.
Mourinho is a mentality beast , the final against Barcelona which arsenal lost , I think a Mourinho team would have pulled through even with 10 players and we have already seen that. So if you want to build a system - wenger but if you want to win at all cost - Mourinho .
They were both fantastatic but they were NEVER competing on a level playing field.
For the seasons that they competed against each other as managers of Arsenal and Chelsea: 2004-2007 and 2013-Dec2015. Wenger's transfer expenditure was €255.71 Million and Mourinho's expenditure was €702.63 Million. It's no surprise Mourinho dominated the head-to-head when he could spend at 3x the rate that Wenger could.*
*Figures from transfermarkt so in euros and take with a pinch of salt.
care to provide us the source of Mourinho spending because we can't these numbers lol
2 managers that found it hard to evolve...both were caught in timewarps in terms of their teams playing styles. Couldn't adapt.
Wenger was class at developing players, he got top 4 with players like Jenkinson and Chamakh😂😂😂😂
I’ve never agreed so much with Adam ever I don’t think. Mourinho was an amazing manager, but his second stint with Chelsea and first with United and Tottenham have to account more than what Rory is giving credit for, but Rory isn’t completely wrong either.
Second stint with Chelsea where he won the league and his United time where he won 2 trophies.
Look at the players wenger had when we lost 6-0 it was the worst squad I’ve seen
Things started to go down hill when he built the stadium and also when David Dein left if those two things hadnt of happened Wenger would have won so much more but thats ifs and buts its obviously Jose
If Jose tops Wenger by Rory's logic, then Pep tops Fergie.
Rory is saying that Jose is a better manager (something I agree with), thus he's "more relevant" in the eyes of the League's history. By that logic Pep is superior to Fergie. With unlimited resources, no one beats Pep, so if we go by who's the better manager, then it goes to Pep, hands down.
If, however, we properly consider what each manager has CONTRIBUTED towards the league-the metric I think the argument should be based around-then it goes: Fergie, Wenger, Pep, then Jose.
Wenger brought in tenfold more spectators to the League than either Pep and Jose; his contributions will outlive every other manager bar Fergie in this respect. Jose and Pep are "better" managers, but neither have shown (yet) they have the ability to last sustain a club in the ways that Fergie and Wenger have..
In all fairness, I do think because of how great Pep has already been in his 7 years, his impact is greater than Wenger: he has influenced more managers/teams in the League (and outside the League) than any other manager, and that includes Fergie. I personally believe the real "rankings" goes: Fergie, Pep, Wenger, then Hose. Pep will go down as the greatest manager in terms of football knowledge, ability to develop players and squads, etc. But that's just one man's opinion...
Don Revie’s Leeds won loads, but other than Leeds fans, no one remembers them fondly. Holland’s team in the 70s won nothing but are much more fondly remembered by all football fans. The same will be true of Mourinho’s and Wenger’s legacy.
No way you compared Mourinho and Don Revie. Get out.
Adam can't decide whether this is a "contributions to the PL" debate or better manager debate
There's no reason to say you'd rather have Wenger at ManU than Mourinho, his success globally shows he's clearly the better manager. But if you're debating who had a more lasting impact then fine Wenger. But Mourinho's stints at Inter and Porto clearly show what he can do with less, so the "one had money, one didn't" argument is tiresome.
These debates are so hard…. One has unlimited money the other didn’t.
I cant rate a manager that destroyed so many dressing rooms and has been sacked like four times so far in his career
But won multiple league titles in multiple countries and a champions league.
@@Kratos_1066 commendable, but he's nowhere near the very best. Many managers have won way more than him, and none of them have been FIRED even half as many times as him
@footballhipstertv I'm not taking the guy who didn't win a European trophy lol!
@@footballhipstertv name managers that have won more than him please
@@akshanshbharti8000 Ancelotti, Ottmar Hitzfeld(also won UCL with Dortmund), Lobanovsky, Pep Guardiola, Jock Stein, Alex Ferguson..
The randomly placed super 6 ad is jarring. Put it at the beginning or end of the video (or both)
Who at Man utd decided to go for aged strikers: cavani, falcao, Ronaldo, ibra...? When will the owners take responsibility for those they employ
Yes, next question
HEATED DEBATE?? Listening to this was like sitting in a library 🤣🤣
I think you have to make a distinction between the two in terms of roles. Mourinho better coach, Wenger the better manager.
There are very few that can do what Mourinho does in terms of short term impact. His catalogue of trophies speak for itself. However.. its not pretty. He leaves absolute chaos in his wake and generally leaves behind a hell of mess for someone to clean up. He has a formula that is impactful and works, short term.
Wenger, to be fair, did join Arsenal and make pretty fast impact. He took the team from midtable to 3rd in his first season and won a double in his second season. However, he never won a european trophy.
If Wenger had left clubs every 3 year to join a new one, he would not have had the same success as Mourinho. But Mourinho is equally incapable of staying at a club for more then 3 years to have long term success with them. Wenger was able to comprimise, he understood he could not always get his own way, pushed to get what he could, and worked with what was given. That it going to happen at any club. Mourinho cannot accept that. He has to get what he wants, when he wants, or he is gone.
During the transition period from Highbury to the Emirates, there was naturally going to a period where success as going to be hard to impossible to come by because Arsenal would be finanically shackled, whilst United continued to spend huge sums as they always had done and Chelsea were also now awash with cash. City then rocked up with the financial muscle too, making its a near impossibility to succeed. But he managed to keep the side good enough to always compete, always get into europe, ensure they Arsenal didn't collapse in a financial tailspin. Mourinho absolutely could not have done what Arsene did.
Its ultimately what makes it so difficult to really place Wenger. Alex spent a similar amount of time at United, but he was always given the tools to compete. Wenger chose to stay out a loyalty, knowing he would not have to tools. In the 8 year period from 96 to 2004, where he was given enough resources to be able to compete with anyone else in the league, he won 3 League titles and 4 Cup titles, whilst being up against the manager most everyone regards the best of all times guiding a team that had a one in a million youth intake come through at the same time. That pretty damn good. I believe his also won more FA cups then any other manager.
Thank you Adam McKola
Why us the guy with five sackings in the conversation?
The disrespect Wenger gets just because he was not founded by a state and had unlimited money is so stupid.
SAF of course is number one, but he had also much more then any other.
Wenger fought with a huge handicap, and what he did is stupid good.
JM and Pep would never have done the same.
When people talk about you. You are in their heads.
Should be more balanced have both Arsenal and Chelsea fans on the panel. One manager was more ruthless and ultimately more successful. One changed English football forever and built the Emirates. Different managers with different legacies.
What I've noticed in the comments section is that the same fanbase who were hounding Wenger out of their club also think he did a fantastic job with Arsenal in that period considering the lack of backing he had. Make sense of it please!
All i know is that if wenger was spending mad money like Chelsea and united back then, we'd be having a completely different debate
*Mou voice* "Voyeur, why are you crying?"
Wenger as a manager was much better than Jose. Wenger changed English football, when he came with the new revolutionary way of sport science. Wenger brought all these not so good players from France, turned them world class. Had Mourinho swapped places with Wenger. Jose would’ve never achieved what Wenger did with his budget. Chelsea bought the leagues, as the only club with all this money. I don’t rate Jose personally as a great manager. He had all the money at Chelsea, Real & Inter
It wasn’t that heated but Adam was the level headed one and what he said made sense.
Had someone invested all their savings into setting up a horse drawn carriage business at the turn of the 20th century, it would've been termed a blunder. But with the benefit of hindsight. How were someone to know that a motorcar would render their business useless?
Wenger and Arsenal invested a lot of money in a new stadium because it was the right thing to do at the time. No one could've foreseen that a Russian billionaire would change English football forever.
ETO got the winner against arsenal.
Rory is a Chelsea fan.
Figured lol.
Etoo equalised 1-1 then Juliano got the winner.
Get ur shit together!
Yes he was
Mou the goat
3 premier league titles In 6 seasons same as Arsene Wenger who had 20 seasons
4 league cups which Wenger has never won
1 Europa league no European trophy for Wenger
The only cups Arsene Wenger done better is fa cup with 7 while mou has 1 .
Good take from adam
Mckola's hate for Mourinho is honestly very weird he won you guys 3 trophies got to the FA cup final and finished 2nd with that horrible Manutd team!
That’s exactly why we don’t like mourinho. You guys always bring up the Mickey Mouse trophies he won and how grateful we should be of him. It gets annoying. He lost the dressing room and signed terrible players and rarely took accountability.
@@wespicedmemes I think and this may hurt but I am just being honest that calling those trophies Mickey Mouse trophies are tbh kinda weird given the state manutd were in when Jose took over and even now I mean with all due respect manutd have won like 5 trophies since fergie left jose got u 3 of those he also finished second let's be honest that team was called manutd but they definitely didn't look or feel like a manutd team so I think utd fans never give him the respect he deserves and tbf alot of the players he wrote off didn't massively improve or kick on anyways (pogba, Shaw, martial)
@@TheMasterhunter2010 shaw improved massively with him leaving. Same with Fred. Dalot. Rashford. Mourinho was a finished coach with outdated negative style of play. Yes we know the current state of United, good he won the trophies but it’s not something we should be worshipping. Say what you want about United but squad wise we are top 4 at least in quality every season in terms of the players.
@@TheMasterhunter2010 Ole’s 2nd place is more impressive
How does the Manu guy have a fairer assessment on this topic than everyone else. This is totally mental. When we talk the pl what comes to mind is Wenger and Ferguson period. Pep however great he is has had the resources to achieve. Barcelona great n coached the hell out of it with its fantastic academy graduates but in bayern failed to lift the cl and with his assembled city greats struggled to get that cl. Just like we've seen mourinho post chelsea struggle at utd n spurs. Bro wenger in top 4 with sanogo, welbeck cmon mans
Not really fair to say that mourinho profited from abramhovic and not say similar things about Guardiola with city's owners
It's unbelievable how they just strip everything away from its context! Wenger deserves way more respect! When things didn't work for Guardiola initially he spent 40m+ on each of four full-backs! He just signed Gvardiol for a 100m making him the most expensive defender ever after signing Haaland last year on astronomical wages! Wenger was never on the same financial support as his opponents! Not Man Utd let alone Abramovich's Chelsea later on! Ferdinand cost United more than Wenger spent on Lehmann, Lauren, Toure, Cambpell, Cole, Ljungberg, Gilberto, Vieira and Pires! The entire starting defence and midfield he went invincible with! Ferguson got to spend more than their price combined on one of his defenders! And then after his two doubles and invincibility the club had crazy financial limitations where they couldn't even pay their top players top wages and they kept leaving one after another yet he stayed and kept the ship stable and stayed in the top 4 playing some of the most beautiful football ever! If positions were switched and Guardiola was there where Wenger was not able to spend money I don't know that Guardiola would've been able to do any better!
Yes. This isn't even a debate. It's a fact. Mourinho is better than Wenger.
People speak of Pep as a master tactitian. But most forget how Mourinho was the Master at a 1-0 win or steam roll through teams 5-0+. CFC conceded only 15 goals in 04/05. Treble in Italy and La Liga is Spain.
This was before Pep. He was too good and people forget.
He came in and called himself the special one and did all of this. Man's is great
"This was before pep " brahh pep been cooking Mourinho ever since he been a manager you know pep is levels ahead when Jose biggest victory it's against pep in ucl and that's about that pep won sixuple in Jose spell in Spain
So Mourinho going to Man Utd and Spurs doesn't affect his pl legacy but Wenger last ten years do?! Lol ok
Sir alex Ferguson and arsen wenger are two of the best managers we have ever seen due to the other factors that surrounded their successes
Jose won the game in the press conference
If it’s overall legacy yep it’s mourinho undoubtedly but if it’s just premier league legacy it has to be wenger for me like when wenger moved to emirates he was spending literally nothing at all and forget the trophies and all mourinho got sacked by 3 prem clubs lads like it isn’t a joke ,his behaviour ruined so many dressing rooms and yet none liked him wenger sacrificed his own legacy and career path just for his loyalty ,I mean for me in terms of iconic it’s fergie then wenger then pep then mourinho for me atleast
At their peaks they both changed the game but Jose’s lows are so much worse than wengers
His highs are much higher
Two completely different managers with completely different styles.
Wenger was made for Arsenal and personified their style, graceful & stylish.
Mourinho was the same for Chelsea & Inter, tactical and lethal.
Mourinho wouldn’t have gotten top 4 with that Arsenal team? What about what he did at United with a more difficult league?
Common Rory Wenger had metersacker ,Socrates and kosceiliny as his centre backs ....and still finished top 4 .....no disrespect to the players bt comparing to the other big clubs that time this was a small budget squad
Wenger would win lot more with the resources of what mourinho had .
Mourinho doesn't have the legacy that Wenger has in Premier League. Nowhere near for me.
And I'm Spurs fan.
McKola has shocked me there with his stance
He can actually be quite level headed when he's in REALITY outside of that he's so delusional 😂
Nobody remembers Mourinho's title wins really. Maybe the first one that's about it. Mourinho and Chelsea will never have an iconic title win like Wenger had in 2004.
Mourinho had unlimited funds and still put 10 men behind the ball playing route 1 football. Pep has spent a lot of money but he pushes the boundaries of football. Put Mourinho in charge of Arsenal anytime between 2006 and 2016, he would have burned the club to the ground and bailed out. If Wenger had been in charge of Chelsea during the Roman era, he would have played better football and equally achieved a lot with unlimited funds. Wenger for me.
Yup like he did with Inter when he won A treble with a negative net spend
Yes, obvi