I spent quite a bit of time looking at lineages of the top grapplers in the last 20 years. It is almost shocking how many jiu jitsu champions come downstream of Rolls Gracie. When you start thinking of Carlos Jr, Renzo, Rickson, the Machado Brothers, and Mauricio Gomez (amongst many others) as generation 1, and then consider the generations of champions after that it’s pretty amazing. You soon realize Eddie Bravo, Roger Gracie, Kron Gracie, Ryan Gracie, along with John Danaher and his entire death squad right down to Gary Tonon and Gordon Ryan today are all of Rolls lineage it becomes pretty apparent the impact this guy had on the art. That’s not to take anything from other lineages. There are many many examples of notable champions from different gyms (Buchecha, Ribiero, Galvao, among others) but the sheer numbers of notable names from Roll’s camp is unmistakable.
The most obvious contribution Rolls made, is he introduced the triangle to bjj. He saw it in a judo book. Yes-i was shocked too to learn thwt, that Helio didn't know about the triangle before this.
The Gracie's didn't no what a triangle was until the 80s.. they found a old kosen judo book from 19.18 they were playing spider guard xguard open guard sweeps submission.. things that were way ahead of what Helio and his brothers were doing.. kosen judo was focused on nea waza still is .. but it's totally different from Olympic style judo.. which focuses on throwing tachi waza.. kosen judo was about ground work submissions.. different guard's.. but the Gracie's invented leverage and the guard 🤦🙄
I don't even like jiu-jitsu but the way you explain the topic, exploring the history, the seminal figures, and your obvious love for the subject, helps to make outsiders appreciate how much beauty there is in your art. Subscribed.
Loving these videos. I live in a small town with a big distance to the nearest juijitsu gym so 8 of my mates and I have been using the Gracie university DVDs towards a blue belt to practice, and a brown belt checks in once a fortnight, it's awesome
Another awesome video brother! I am currently a 48 year old blue belt who is under one of the Royce Gracie Jiu-Jitsu schools in NC. I love being educate on the history of the Gracie family. Please continue to do more videos like this and Enlighten us.
Rolls was way ahead of his time. I've only seem the same video everyone else has of Rolls and Rickson rolling and in it, Rolls clearly was better. Rolls is no longer alive so it's difficult for him to defend his position, but I think Rickson is respectful enough to admit it if Rolls was better than him just before he passed. Maybe Rickson caught up with him, but if Rickson improved - it was largely due to Rolls helping him.
In this video Rickson was about 17 years old, Rolls already had about 25 an adult black belt at the height of his game, not to take into account and yet he does not finish rickson, despite taking advantage.
I am a student at a Royler Gracie Academy, I have obviously been instructed by Royler, Royce has conducted siminars at our academy as well, I hope Rickson & Kron will come and I believe they will. I am devoted to the Helio Gracie Lineage and plan to devote my learnings thereto!.... Nothing against Carlos's side... Just Very Proud to be a part of Helio's lineage! Oss.
It is hard to say who was the best, once everybody from the Helio side didnt want Rolls to be the family champion. There is this story where Rolls was out camping or something for three days, so when he got home, Helio set up a "surprise match" for him to fight Rorion, once Helio wanted one of his sons to be the number one. Following that, Rolls accepted the challenge and fought Rorion and beat him, then Helio got furious, he went out screaming: "How could you lose to him? He was out for three days without eating properly, without resting, and you managed to get beaten by him! You are worthless!". Some people say that this event was the main cause that made Rorion move to the USA! For that reason, I think this story that Rickson beat Rolls coming up just after Rolls death is a bit suspicious, even though it is impossible to prove either side of the story.
yes, no matter what Helio wanted of Rorion vs Rolls, the fact was, that being the family champion was never in Rorion's destiny. as far as the "story" of rickson beating rolls, that came right out of Rickson's mouth on the joe rogan podcast. as large as the gracie family is, and for rickson to come out and say it, you would HAVE to think that there'd be a family member from Carlos, Sr's side that would say, "no way that would happen. i was there." but no. i have only heard people say "Rolls was the best in the family." but never "Rickson is lying. he never beat Rolls." given the huge problem the family factions seem to have with each other, it would make sense that they would maintain loyalty to their individual "side" of the family with regard to who "the best" was. but if Rickson is lying, you KNOW the other side of the family wouldn't hesitate to call him out on it, straight up, no?
I find it suspicious and odd Rickson would "now" say he beat Rolls too. Especially considering in all previous publications and interviews, he would only admit Rolls only beat him because he was still young. To the idea the the family would come and contest Rickson's claims: I think they're tired of the drama. This is a family, Rickson included, that at one time was very controlling of every aspect of jiu-jitsu. The politics of jiu-jitsu nearly destroyed them, so now no one really cares what any of them says. In any case, it's a very childish way of seeing things. The "I can beat you up" mentality of BJJ has been abandoned and you can see it reflected in even Rickson.
Have you ever considered changing your screen name from Truth Guy to Opinion Guy? Based on your previous comments, that would seem more fitting. We all seem to have them, don't we? btw, glad you found (and are contributing to) our channel! keep it up!
Kama Jiu-jitsu - No, I haven't, because while I offer "opinion," my goal is to get to the truth. To that matter, we have video proof of Rolls beating Rickson and Rickson's own admission that Rolls could "beat" him. On the flip-side, we only have Rickson's word he could beat Rolls (which is only fairly recent). There's also testimony from other Gracie members who say Rolls was much better. The fact that you're insinuating Rickson must be telling the truth, because no other Gracie has challenged his position is erroneous. They're not obligated. Likewise, there's no proof Rickson is lying either, so you can see why one would have "some" suspicion. Furthermore, was I not correct in stating jiu-jitsu politics has nearly destroyed the Gracies? I mean there was even a falling out between Rorion and Rickson at one point. I'm not trying to sound condescending, because I do enjoy your channel and the topics you bring up. However, as much liberty as I've taken, I don't believe I've been "untruthful" with my "opinions." Finally, thanks for the "welcome." GJJ and BJJ are number one.
+Truth Guy, no problem, mi amigo. In the video "proof" of Rolls beating Rickson, how old was Rickson? I'm pretty sure he was a teenager in that famous video. Video was shot in 1976, if I'm not mistaken, making Rickson 17 or 18 and Rolls about 25. Rolls passed in 1982 at the age of 31. Rickson was the family champion well before Rolls passed. Rolls passed in his prime, while Rickson was about 24 and still well before his. Just sayin...
Enjoyed it. Thanks man. Loving all the vids. I would like to see more on connection and videos of Dave rolling! I think once people get to a certain level seeing people rolling you can pick up a lot.
Unfortunately I say inconclusive.... Rolls would adapt to Rickson as well as Rickson to Rolls... This is what made them good.... Though the upper hand goes to Rolls he was more open minded and was a thinker outside the box
Rickson is the best. He achieved extreme mastery not only in grappling, but in breathing, flexibility, balance, speed, etc. Rolls was the champion and helped Rickson, but the Rickson superseded him and became most complete and developed practitioner. They were about equal in grappling just before Rolls left this world, but Rickson was still developing and Rolls was at his peak. They both are excellent, but Rickson is the best of all time.
To me Rickson had a defense, hold you until you got tired and then submit you type of style. Where as Rolls had a more offensive attack from beginning to end type of style until he finished you. Rolls style was way ahead of its time and more like what you see in competitions today.
Great video! I always leaned toward Rolls being the better of the two but the way you broke it down makes me think about it a little differently. And you gained a subscriber to your channel lol. Oss!
awesome video! wrote a comment on the gracie vs gracie video but this addresses everything! i went to Kron's place because i'm a big fan of Rickson! took a pic of Roll's Jiu Jitsu commandments in the bulletin board just outside of the mat! i compete and belong to Atos Jiu Jitsu, but a big rolls and rickson jiu jitsu (physical, mental and spiritual) fan!
I think Carlson should of been 3.0 his Bjj was very aggressive and branched off from helio. Carlson's line influenced a lot of competition and mma fighters.
I haven't seen much footage of Rolls, so I can't really give an opinion of him. The best testament comes from those with inside knowledge who knew both of them. Renzo says Rolls was the best, and I know plenty of others who regard him as the best ever. He must have been some beast if he was better than Rickson. All of the early UFC competitors were lucky Royce was selected to represent GJJ, and not Rickson. Cos it would have been way worse for them.
Hey "Hyan"-I really appreciate these vids! I'm new to Gracie Jiu Jitsu, I'm affiliated with Gracie Academy inTorrance and I've noticed that from Rolls side of JJ, 3.0 as you put it, developed into competition or sport-based JJ and from Rickson, 4.0 side, is street defensive-minded JJ-which I love. Is this somewhat true? I've been to Gracie Barra-I really didn't like the aggressive vibe there-not bad, just not for me. It seemed that many of the guys were trying to prove something maybe? It was NOT nearly as cooperative a roll-especially for a BRAND NEW student-as the Ryron and Rener-influenced academy's, There it seemed EVERYONE wanted to HELP me learn and join up. This is what sold me.
+G&K Ol' School, that's not a GB or Gracie Torrance-specific thing. That is entirely up to the instructor at the school. He sets the culture. Everyone else followed his lead.
Asking rickson .of course he's going to say he's better than rolls. I love Gracie and rickson but they are egotistical and rickson. Has to big of ego to say some one is better than him. Rickson also wouldn't be half as good if it wasn't for rolls
Another superb video!!! It's my belief that people tend to do a better job and embrace a profession, sport or hobby if they know the history and traditions behind it. What do you think Version 5.0 is going to be? I foresee "AJJ" or American Jiu Jistsu being something that will be developed within the next few decades. I see AJJ as dropping the Gi altogether, and while it will retain the spirit of BJJ ( much like BJJ did with JJJ) some of the traditions and terms will be dropped.
Joe schmoe the gi is a very important tool for jiujutsu, just like a speed bag, punching bag would be for boxing, we dont box the same in a match but the tools in training help....
I'm not say I don't like the Gi, just saying that many think its a bit impractical ( although in my opinion coats, jackets and other clothing aren't that far from being a Gi) Like anything else in the US, martial arts training is consumer based as far as it being financially successful and marketable. While there is a very unfortunate side affect of this ( belts "for sale" and McDojos) It can also be used as a tool to spread the Art. Eddie Bravo may not be liked for his concepts but his 10th Planet No-Gi BJJ school has 70 different affiliates.
Joe schmoe eddie isnt liked bcuz of a lot of things do to many ppl being impartial to his smoking mj, that being said his rubber guard came up bcuz of mma fighters using sportive guard with gi techs in that type of fighting... he likes rickson a lot by the way.... i dont believe the gi will ever go away, but uf you or another person wants to open an academy with only nogi, then im behind them 120%. I personally don't train nogi... its either kids jiujitsu( rolling) of jiujitsu with strikes....
Changes are inevitable, I think as long as the core concepts ( practical self defense, hard work and respect) is retained the terminology , language and some of the customs may go away. I personally like having some pictures of past masters on display, and having the class acknowledge the professors and the founders after class with a bow.
Rolls was the best as he brought an offensive edge to jiu jitsu after he left Helio and started training with Carlson. He cross trained in wrestling with Bob Anderson, along with judo and aikido. Thus, he is a MAJOR contributor to Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Now as to the question of who is better between Rolls and Rickson, I got to go with Rolls. He helped develop Rickson's game as Rolls nurtured a competitive spirit among his brothers and cousins. Rickson is the master of control. I've never rolled with Rickson or a Rickson black belt. However, based on what I've read and seen. Rickson has utter dominance over his opponents. He may be the best jiu jitsu practitioner alive.
cabalofdemons yes, you need to train with a Rickson blk blt, what most ppl think of fundamentals in jiujitsu and at times mundane, when you roll with kron etc... they arent using anything you probably hvnt seen but in another conceptual way to execute.... that makes the difference....
I'm a blue belt under Relson's lineage, which emphasizes self-defense over sport, so I've rolled with black belts under Relson and also had the privilege of rolling with a purple belt under Pedro Sauer's lineage. While I love sport jiu jitsu and the innovation of BJJ, I'm a firm believer in fundamentals and self-defense. But yes, I'd love to roll with a Rickson black belt.
its good to research family bloodlines, lineage , and history. But not really as important as it used to be. The main transitions in the sport was Carlson Gracie and his Brazilian Top Team which was the first great non-Gracie team followed by Cesar Gracie with his team. You got Sakuraba a catch as catch can whom by beating the top BJJ fighters helped changed the sport. The SoCal MMA scene with its College and Olympic Wrestling definitely improved the sport. Now aside from 6"3 Roger Gracie the best BJJ are mostly non-Gracies like Marcelo Garcia or Eddie Bravo
Hi ,i really like your videos ,just one minor problem ,the sound quality aint really good ,i usually listen your videos while i am cooking and doin it from my phone and its hard to hear everything.thanks
According to Helio, Carlos didn’t modify anything that he was taught from Maeda. He says Carlos taught him Japanese Jiujitsu and he himself modified to what is now known as Gracie Jiujitsu.
+Drifter, you know, since Ryron and Rener are so up to date on everything, and they have spent time training with both Kron and Rickson, I have to believe they have incorporated many of Rickson's concepts in their curriculum.
Rolls trained with Helio and Carlson and helped train Rickson but Carlson was the first champion of the Gracie family after Helio was too old and was argueably the one who who was the first MMA Gracie champion as he faught the best MMA guys of the time!
Rolls was the best back then . Rolls used to train with Carlson . Rickson was too young. Hélio used to bring rickson to Carlson academy and rosado ( best Carlson Gracie student) used to smash rickson .
Rickson is the best. He has shown himself to be one of the most humble members of the familly, so I believe him. If REFUSING A RED BELT because of time requirement is not a sign of humility, I don't know what is.
@Brian Alfredo THERE ARE a lot of Spawn fans! Spawn is the best-selling non-DC/Marvel comic book series ever! It's just that Spawn has no real presence in media outside of comics, and to honest, it's really annoying.
@Brian Alfredo Interest in the movie from production companies increased a lot following the success of Joker one year ago, so it has resumed production. The production has obviously been slowed down because of the ongoing pandemic, but don't worry! It's coming!
Basically Hall taught Rickson what he knew. eventually Rickson learned and was larger in size and able to capitalize and beat him, but P4P Halls was better. Size matters. If they weren't family members Rickson couldn't have learned and advanced so quickly to beat Halls. Halls did all the work to travel, learn outside of the family and then pass that information to Rickson. P4P the best.
Rickson was seven years younger then Rolls. Yes, Rolls was very good, that made Rickson excel further than Rolls only because Rolls passed from a hang gliding accident. So we can't say how good Rolls could ever be but we now know that Rickson is a LIVING LEGEND. TO SAY OTHERWISE IS ONLY "HATING".
I guess not so much the actual techniques but more the concepts regarding punch defense. Closing the distance, keeping close to the opponent, staying far away, use of the stomping kick etc.
He certainly did. But GM Carlson, Sr has been quoted as saying he thought Rolls was the best. So, although the was among the best of the family, he MAY not have been THE best.
We all have to realize holls died very young,I'm pretty sure with another ten years especially considering the Gracie's do live a full life for the most part.,he probably would have contributed even more,Great video
Rolls trained Rickson more so than anyone else in the family. Rickson ability to dominate came from training directly under Rolls. Rickson had a hidden desire to be better than his cousin. Most folks think Rolls is the son of Helio, when in-fact he is the son of Carlos. Rolls takes the nod in this and I haven't watch your video yet, just giving my opinion before I watch, now I want to see how you diagnoise this
Rickson is a lot like Bruce Lee. Legends built on reputations that were assisted by timing and lack of competition. The real question is how do Rolls and Rickson do in today's MMA/BJJ world? How does Rickson do against John Jones or Gordon Ryan? Why did Rickson not fight Sakuraba when both were at their primes and Sakuraba was laying waste to Gracies? Also, what about the Fada. Hello did not create BJJ. Fada learned Judo separate from the Gracies and Fada and his Judo handily beat the Gracies and Helio.
Professor Young, could you do a School Time video on the evolution of the guard? For example, did it initially evolve from failed sacrifice throws from the Kodokan style?
Izzy Matt im very much interested in that too. I would suppose Helios lack of fitness would have had him stacked at the bottom over and over and that he started to explore the guard techniques from there.
Some Carlo`s kids bring the !R" in begining of their names too. Carlos was a studant of misticism reads a lot CABALA and learn that word R is a strong and mistical power. Carlos teach that to his brother Hélio que passou a adotar o R for his kids too. I hope that you understand my explanation!
Rolls was more well rounded open minded.. trained sambo wrestling judo.. he trained all different grappling styles .. there was kosen judo that was just neawaza based guys playing spider guard xguard open guard sweeps submission ect.. Kato was tachi waza a kodokan judoka.. different sport than kosen judo different rules you could pull guard and most of the training was ground work
I would add a another sub-bracket with Brazilian Judo BJ1.0 that merged with GJJ3.0 to make BJJ2.0 and then BJJ 3.0 emerged with De la riva, Royler Gracie and the lighter competitors in the 90's who started the open guard and inverted game we see a lot in IBJJF today
that certainly makes sense. there are a ton of smaller competitors who have provided some unbelievable innovations as the decades went on. we can "slice and dice" this so many ways.
What I love about Jiu Jitsu is how it allows for new styles and tactics to emerge by being inclusive with other grappling arts and incorporating their effective techniques. The way I see it is there there are currently three parallel routs in Jiu-jitsu: Sport, mma and self defense. They are all connected and can cross or into each other, but still their own distinct path in the journey. I'm a biologist and when we look at how species interact with their environment, jiu jitsu is quite similar. Static environments lead to specialists, dynamic environments favor generalists more. In sport jiu jitsu, the environment is pretty static because there are strict rules , so competitors can specialize and have a go to technique in every match. MMA and the street are very dynamic environment ( few to no rules) there fore those practitioners have to be more general and conservative in their techniques. Sorry for the rambling..... your videos get my "wheels turning " I'm always tempted to do my own videos, but yours are great, I love the history!
I'm very honored to hear history from a credible source, but also from the Rickson lineage. There's always speculation and hearsay from people. There are also people who are bias... but I always have to take into account the sources, even if they are opposing. I'd be an honor to roll with GM Rickson or any of his BBs. Thank you Kama-san.
No body asks about the weight of each man across those 30 rolls. That would be a factor in the results. Rickson looks more muscular as he matured. Rolls not so much. So Rolls techniques could have been better but Rickson was getting stronger and heavier. Physics always is a variable.
Carlson, Sr is a generation ahead of Rolls, age wise. they're half brothers, but around 20 years apart. Carlson, Sr is on the video we did on Gracie Family Champions here th-cam.com/video/Uo9mzaZAoNo/w-d-xo.html
I like to argue that Carson's contributions where made in promoting team spirit and strength & conditioning training on top of solid technique. His students where all strong and in shape which gave them an advantage over the guys who purely relied on their techniques. Also creating a team, without favoring individuals (like his uncle Helio), made the level go up fast. Rolls, by training with Carlson's team, benefited from this as well just like Rickson later on benefited from training with Rolls. Therefor in my book I see Carson as Gracie Jiu-Jitsu 2.1 to put it in your classification.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu thank you! To be honest with you, I haven't trained much since my son is born and my students started competing around 4 years ago. I mis it though and will be back soon. Thank you for the video's. I appreciate them a lot.
+Antoni Hardonk, family first. Jiu-jitsu will always be around. Time with your son while he's a baby never comes around again. God bless you and your family!
what about Carly Gracie in San Fransisco? The Lion. He supposedly never lost a match, public or private, including in the family. Is he not at the same age as Rickson and Rolls? Older? How does he compare to these 2 you call the best.
Try the newer, more recent ones. Sound quality has always been a challenge for us and we’ve tried multiple solutions. At the end of the day, we’re not a high dollar production, so sound will sometimes be less than optimal. Using different locations probably doesn’t help, either. I hope the content makes up some for the deficiencies?
Rolls. It's only my opinion. But from what I understand, Rickson was greatly influenced by Rolls. That didn't go well with the rest of the Gracies. Rolls would've been like the modern MMA fighter. Keep in mind, I haven't seen this video yet.
I agree. What I heard was that Helio hated the fact that Rolls learned Wrestling and Sambo as well. That Helio said Gracie Jiu-jitsu was the end-all-be-all. @@KamaJiuJitsu
Your analysis of judo back then is wrong. Helio's choke is the same exact choke. Helio drew with Kato in their first match. Helio was better at the same thing. Judo allowed a lot of grappling on the ground back then.
i'm not sure i mentioned that Helio's choke was a different choke. i think i made more of the observation that Kato didn't seem to see it coming, by virtue of the appearance he did nothing to address it. not sure Helio was better at doing the choke. i never saw Kato do it. but Helio's offense was certainly better than Kato's defense in that particular moment.
some say he trained alongside Rickson vs under Rickson. Pedro does seem to have a tremendous admiration for Rickson though, and they are among the best of friends.
Rolls had a mind that was/ impressive/ innovative / unique. I hate that they good ones die young. I think he's watching... on TH-cam in a spaceship showing aliens how it's done. Aloha
I have a very specifical pont of view, after I study a lot the jiu jitsu history in Brazil. The thecniques and so... there are many missing points, untold in the gracies stories.
@@KamaJiuJitsu I agree. Good insight. Question for you: Going forth now that Helio has been out of the picture for a while will there start to be two or more camps? My jujitsu is from Gigi through Jacare and thus Rolls. You're a Rickson guy. As time goes on, what do you foresee regarding the various Jujitsu disciplines and/or lineages? Weird question I know.
rickson nem se compara com rolls era o melhor da familiar ele humilhava o rickson o propio carlson gracie disse isso que helio gracie ficava puto da vida por quer ninguem era melhor que rolls gracie.oss
of course, GM Carlson has been known to have had problems with GM Helio. as a result, it would make sense that he would say that about Helio's son. I think GM Carlson had a great influence on GM Rolls (who then out shined him), and GM Rolls had a great influence on GM Rickson (who then out shined him). it's debatable whether Carlson was taught primarily by Carlos, Sr or Helio. But Helio was not liked by many of Carlos' sons, who had no problem talking shit about him and his sons. that's really sad. but oh, well.
I heard a story then watched a video on youtube regarding the Rickson vs Sergio Penha bout. It was said that Sergio was so good that Helio ordered his instructor Osvaldo Alves to give Sergio the black belt even though he was a purple belt at the time. Sergio then had to compete against Rickson at a tournament. Like an amateur boxer fighting Mike Tyson in his first professional bout. The story goes that Sergio was actually dominating the fight and had alot more points than Rickson who was becoming very fatigued. All of a sudden the lights went out in the arena stopping the bout and were off for quite a few minutes and thereby giving Rickson a chance to regain his wind. Rickson then went on to defeat Sergio by mount and choke. And they never competed against each other again.This story calls into question Rickson's ability and dominance. Also the fact that Carson Gracies top black belts also dominated him in training as mentioned by someone here. Don't you think.
@@KamaJiuJitsu - No, it was Rickson vs Penha and the video might still be on youtube; although I have not checkd recently. If you look up Penha's wiki it mentions it. I also saw the Rigan vs Rickson match and Penha was more dominating than he was.
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I spent quite a bit of time looking at lineages of the top grapplers in the last 20 years. It is almost shocking how many jiu jitsu champions come downstream of Rolls Gracie. When you start thinking of Carlos Jr, Renzo, Rickson, the Machado Brothers, and Mauricio Gomez (amongst many others) as generation 1, and then consider the generations of champions after that it’s pretty amazing.
You soon realize Eddie Bravo, Roger Gracie, Kron Gracie, Ryan Gracie, along with John Danaher and his entire death squad right down to Gary Tonon and Gordon Ryan today are all of Rolls lineage it becomes pretty apparent the impact this guy had on the art. That’s not to take anything from other lineages. There are many many examples of notable champions from different gyms (Buchecha, Ribiero, Galvao, among others) but the sheer numbers of notable names from Roll’s camp is unmistakable.
You can also take it one gen up to Helio, since he taught almost ALL of the 2nd gen gracies (sons of Carlos Sr as well as sons).
Your videos on the gracie family and the history of bjj are incredible. Truly. Thank you for sharing your studies! All the best.
The most obvious contribution Rolls made, is he introduced the triangle to bjj. He saw it in a judo book. Yes-i was shocked too to learn thwt, that Helio didn't know about the triangle before this.
Helio was too close minded for that.
The Gracie's didn't no what a triangle was until the 80s.. they found a old kosen judo book from 19.18 they were playing spider guard xguard open guard sweeps submission.. things that were way ahead of what Helio and his brothers were doing.. kosen judo was focused on nea waza still is .. but it's totally different from Olympic style judo.. which focuses on throwing tachi waza.. kosen judo was about ground work submissions.. different guard's.. but the Gracie's invented leverage and the guard 🤦🙄
I don't even like jiu-jitsu but the way you explain the topic, exploring the history, the seminal figures, and your obvious love for the subject, helps to make outsiders appreciate how much beauty there is in your art. Subscribed.
Thank you!
Sambo was another sport that contributed to Rolls’ and Rickson’s style possibly even more so than wrestling. They both competed in Sambo.
Loving these videos. I live in a small town with a big distance to the nearest juijitsu gym so 8 of my mates and I have been using the Gracie university DVDs towards a blue belt to practice, and a brown belt checks in once a fortnight, it's awesome
+Tane Gurnick, that's so awesome! Keep it up!
Another awesome video brother! I am currently a 48 year old blue belt who is under one of the Royce Gracie Jiu-Jitsu schools in NC. I love being educate on the history of the Gracie family. Please continue to do more videos like this and Enlighten us.
+MrFourmidable, you're at Prof Maxi Heydari's academy?
Kama Jiu-Jitsu Royce Gracie Greensboro. Ran by coach Blayne Turnmire under Professor Billy Dowey.
+MrFourmidable, very nice! Who's the black belt professor there?
Kama Jiu-Jitsu Billy Dowey is the black belt there. He also runs a school in Raleigh NC also.
+MrFourmidable, awesome!
Very nice presentation. Thx
Keep the School Time videos coming they are much appreciated
+thegnjdk, thanks for the feedback!
Rolls was way ahead of his time. I've only seem the same video everyone else has of Rolls and Rickson rolling and in it, Rolls clearly was better. Rolls is no longer alive so it's difficult for him to defend his position, but I think Rickson is respectful enough to admit it if Rolls was better than him just before he passed. Maybe Rickson caught up with him, but if Rickson improved - it was largely due to Rolls helping him.
In this video Rickson was about 17 years old, Rolls already had about 25 an adult black belt at the height of his game, not to take into account and yet he does not finish rickson, despite taking advantage.
Bora contribuição, muito detalhado e ainda deu o seu ponto de vista, recomendo!
I am a student at a Royler Gracie Academy, I have obviously been instructed by Royler, Royce has conducted siminars at our academy as well, I hope Rickson & Kron will come and I believe they will. I am devoted to the Helio Gracie Lineage and plan to devote my learnings thereto!.... Nothing against Carlos's side... Just Very Proud to be a part of Helio's lineage! Oss.
It is hard to say who was the best, once everybody from the Helio side didnt want Rolls to be the family champion. There is this story where Rolls was out camping or something for three days, so when he got home, Helio set up a "surprise match" for him to fight Rorion, once Helio wanted one of his sons to be the number one. Following that, Rolls accepted the challenge and fought Rorion and beat him, then Helio got furious, he went out screaming: "How could you lose to him? He was out for three days without eating properly, without resting, and you managed to get beaten by him! You are worthless!". Some people say that this event was the main cause that made Rorion move to the USA! For that reason, I think this story that Rickson beat Rolls coming up just after Rolls death is a bit suspicious, even though it is impossible to prove either side of the story.
yes, no matter what Helio wanted of Rorion vs Rolls, the fact was, that being the family champion was never in Rorion's destiny. as far as the "story" of rickson beating rolls, that came right out of Rickson's mouth on the joe rogan podcast. as large as the gracie family is, and for rickson to come out and say it, you would HAVE to think that there'd be a family member from Carlos, Sr's side that would say, "no way that would happen. i was there."
but no. i have only heard people say "Rolls was the best in the family." but never "Rickson is lying. he never beat Rolls."
given the huge problem the family factions seem to have with each other, it would make sense that they would maintain loyalty to their individual "side" of the family with regard to who "the best" was.
but if Rickson is lying, you KNOW the other side of the family wouldn't hesitate to call him out on it, straight up, no?
I find it suspicious and odd Rickson would "now" say he beat Rolls too. Especially considering in all previous publications and interviews, he would only admit Rolls only beat him because he was still young.
To the idea the the family would come and contest Rickson's claims: I think they're tired of the drama. This is a family, Rickson included, that at one time was very controlling of every aspect of jiu-jitsu. The politics of jiu-jitsu nearly destroyed them, so now no one really cares what any of them says.
In any case, it's a very childish way of seeing things. The "I can beat you up" mentality of BJJ has been abandoned and you can see it reflected in even Rickson.
Have you ever considered changing your screen name from Truth Guy to Opinion Guy? Based on your previous comments, that would seem more fitting. We all seem to have them, don't we? btw, glad you found (and are contributing to) our channel! keep it up!
Kama Jiu-jitsu - No, I haven't, because while I offer "opinion," my goal is to get to the truth. To that matter, we have video proof of Rolls beating Rickson and Rickson's own admission that Rolls could "beat" him. On the flip-side, we only have Rickson's word he could beat Rolls (which is only fairly recent). There's also testimony from other Gracie members who say Rolls was much better. The fact that you're insinuating Rickson must be telling the truth, because no other Gracie has challenged his position is erroneous. They're not obligated. Likewise, there's no proof Rickson is lying either, so you can see why one would have "some" suspicion.
Furthermore, was I not correct in stating jiu-jitsu politics has nearly destroyed the Gracies? I mean there was even a falling out between Rorion and Rickson at one point.
I'm not trying to sound condescending, because I do enjoy your channel and the topics you bring up. However, as much liberty as I've taken, I don't believe I've been "untruthful" with my "opinions."
Finally, thanks for the "welcome." GJJ and BJJ are number one.
+Truth Guy, no problem, mi amigo. In the video "proof" of Rolls beating Rickson, how old was Rickson? I'm pretty sure he was a teenager in that famous video. Video was shot in 1976, if I'm not mistaken, making Rickson 17 or 18 and Rolls about 25. Rolls passed in 1982 at the age of 31. Rickson was the family champion well before Rolls passed. Rolls passed in his prime, while Rickson was about 24 and still well before his. Just sayin...
Amazing insight, Ryan. 20 years ago I would have killed to watch these videos. Thanks
+bflo1000, aw, thanks!
Enjoyed it. Thanks man. Loving all the vids. I would like to see more on connection and videos of Dave rolling! I think once people get to a certain level seeing people rolling you can pick up a lot.
Stay tuned.
Unfortunately I say inconclusive.... Rolls would adapt to Rickson as well as Rickson to Rolls... This is what made them good.... Though the upper hand goes to Rolls he was more open minded and was a thinker outside the box
Rickson is the best. He achieved extreme mastery not only in grappling, but in breathing, flexibility, balance, speed, etc. Rolls was the champion and helped Rickson, but the Rickson superseded him and became most complete and developed practitioner. They were about equal in grappling just before Rolls left this world, but Rickson was still developing and Rolls was at his peak. They both are excellent, but Rickson is the best of all time.
I'll have to say Rolls was the best, when he passed, Rickson became the best and learn everything from Rolls.
I really loved ryan gracie s intense savagery
To me Rickson had a defense, hold you until you got tired and then submit you type of style. Where as Rolls had a more offensive attack from beginning to end type of style until he finished you. Rolls style was way ahead of its time and more like what you see in competitions today.
This is fascinating and awesome! Thank you.
Good presentation... learned a lot about the Gracies in this one.
Thanks for the feedback!
Great video! I always leaned toward Rolls being the better of the two but the way you broke it down makes me think about it a little differently. And you gained a subscriber to your channel lol. Oss!
manson8866 Thank you!
RIP Rolls Gracie..
+David Pitts, hi, David. Long time!
You are very late. He died way before Helio or Carlos.
David was a student of Jacare Cavalcanti for a time, if I’m not mistaken. I think he might already know that.
What is RIP?
@@buffalospringfield9140 Rest In Peace
awesome video! wrote a comment on the gracie vs gracie video but this addresses everything! i went to Kron's place because i'm a big fan of Rickson! took a pic of Roll's Jiu Jitsu commandments in the bulletin board just outside of the mat!
i compete and belong to Atos Jiu Jitsu, but a big rolls and rickson jiu jitsu (physical, mental and spiritual) fan!
+Rodolfo Romero, then you should switch to Prof Kron's academy ;-).
Kama Jiu-Jitsu :-) loyalty is something I admire in the Gracie family, so I will be loyal to my team and masters :-)
+Rodolfo Romero, good man.
+Kama Jiu-Jitsu , love your vids.. what evidence or witness do we have of Rickson beating Rolls, other than his own testimony?
+Discover Security & Surveillance, like I said in another reply, no one from the family has called BS on him, which they would certainly do.
word up. good point bromigo. good point. keep on keepin on.
I think Carlson should of been 3.0 his Bjj was very aggressive and branched off from helio. Carlson's line influenced a lot of competition and mma fighters.
+A. P., great point!
I haven't seen much footage of Rolls, so I can't really give an opinion of him. The best testament comes from those with inside knowledge who knew both of them. Renzo says Rolls was the best, and I know plenty of others who regard him as the best ever. He must have been some beast if he was better than Rickson. All of the early UFC competitors were lucky Royce was selected to represent GJJ, and not Rickson. Cos it would have been way worse for them.
I think Rickson wanted a Mill to do the fight?
In my opinion the best is the one who learns from all styles/systems without prejudice or ego.
Ryan, did you make a video where you explained Rickson's "connection" (that's hard to explain) ?
We go over it a lot on Dave Kama’s online platform.
Great video bro...Great job.
Thank you
Hey "Hyan"-I really appreciate these vids! I'm new to Gracie Jiu Jitsu, I'm affiliated with Gracie Academy inTorrance and I've noticed that from Rolls side of JJ, 3.0 as you put it, developed into competition or sport-based JJ and from Rickson, 4.0 side, is street defensive-minded JJ-which I love. Is this somewhat true? I've been to Gracie Barra-I really didn't like the aggressive vibe there-not bad, just not for me. It seemed that many of the guys were trying to prove something maybe? It was NOT nearly as cooperative a roll-especially for a BRAND NEW student-as the Ryron and Rener-influenced academy's, There it seemed EVERYONE wanted to HELP me learn and join up. This is what sold me.
+G&K Ol' School, that's not a GB or Gracie Torrance-specific thing. That is entirely up to the instructor at the school. He sets the culture. Everyone else followed his lead.
Thank you for the info, sir. Oss 🤙🏼
George Gracie and Carlson Gracie
I’m not so sure Carlson, Sr could beat Rolls... 🤔
Asking rickson .of course he's going to say he's better than rolls. I love Gracie and rickson but they are egotistical and rickson. Has to big of ego to say some one is better than him. Rickson also wouldn't be half as good if it wasn't for rolls
Another superb video!!! It's my belief that people tend to do a better job and embrace a profession, sport or hobby if they know the history and traditions behind it. What do you think Version 5.0 is going to be? I foresee "AJJ" or American Jiu Jistsu being something that will be developed within the next few decades.
I see AJJ as dropping the Gi altogether, and while it will retain the spirit of BJJ ( much like BJJ did with JJJ) some of the traditions and terms will be dropped.
Joe schmoe the gi is a very important tool for jiujutsu, just like a speed bag, punching bag would be for boxing, we dont box the same in a match but the tools in training help....
I'm not say I don't like the Gi, just saying that many think its a bit impractical ( although in my opinion coats, jackets and other clothing aren't that far from being a Gi) Like anything else in the US, martial arts training is consumer based as far as it being financially successful and marketable.
While there is a very unfortunate side affect of this ( belts "for sale" and McDojos) It can also be used as a tool to spread the Art.
Eddie Bravo may not be liked for his concepts but his 10th Planet No-Gi BJJ school has 70 different affiliates.
Joe schmoe eddie isnt liked bcuz of a lot of things do to many ppl being impartial to his smoking mj, that being said his rubber guard came up bcuz of mma fighters using sportive guard with gi techs in that type of fighting... he likes rickson a lot by the way.... i dont believe the gi will ever go away, but uf you or another person wants to open an academy with only nogi, then im behind them 120%. I personally don't train nogi... its either kids jiujitsu( rolling) of jiujitsu with strikes....
+Joe schmoe, that could very well be true. Hope it doesn't happen that way, though. That would be a crying shame.
Changes are inevitable, I think as long as the core concepts ( practical self defense, hard work and respect) is retained the terminology , language and some of the customs may go away. I personally like having some pictures of past masters on display, and having the class acknowledge the professors and the founders after class with a bow.
cool knowledge thank you.
Great video !
+Michael Sifu 81 H, thank you!
Where can I find a list of Rickson’s upcoming seminars?
He’s done doing them. He was diagnosed with Parkinson’s a couple years ago and only made it public recently.
@@KamaJiuJitsu truly sorry to hear it.
Rolls was the best as he brought an offensive edge to jiu jitsu after he left Helio and started training with Carlson. He cross trained in wrestling with Bob Anderson, along with judo and aikido. Thus, he is a MAJOR contributor to Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Now as to the question of who is better between Rolls and Rickson, I got to go with Rolls. He helped develop Rickson's game as Rolls nurtured a competitive spirit among his brothers and cousins.
Rickson is the master of control. I've never rolled with Rickson or a Rickson black belt. However, based on what I've read and seen. Rickson has utter dominance over his opponents. He may be the best jiu jitsu practitioner alive.
+cabalofdemons, then you need to train with one of them, if you come across one.
cabalofdemons yes, you need to train with a Rickson blk blt, what most ppl think of fundamentals in jiujitsu and at times mundane, when you roll with kron etc... they arent using anything you probably hvnt seen but in another conceptual way to execute.... that makes the difference....
I'm scared I might lose my arm, leg, foot, shoulder or neck ;).
I'm a blue belt under Relson's lineage, which emphasizes self-defense over sport, so I've rolled with black belts under Relson and also had the privilege of rolling with a purple belt under Pedro Sauer's lineage. While I love sport jiu jitsu and the innovation of BJJ, I'm a firm believer in fundamentals and self-defense.
But yes, I'd love to roll with a Rickson black belt.
cabalofdemons I'm a 3rd degree black belt under Master Pedro Sauer...
its good to research family bloodlines, lineage , and history. But not really as important as it used to be. The main transitions in the sport was Carlson Gracie and his Brazilian Top Team which was the first great non-Gracie team followed by Cesar Gracie with his team. You got Sakuraba a catch as catch can whom by beating the top BJJ fighters helped changed the sport. The SoCal MMA scene with its College and Olympic Wrestling definitely improved the sport. Now aside from 6"3
Roger Gracie the best BJJ are mostly non-Gracies like
Marcelo Garcia or Eddie Bravo
Solid page man
thank you.
For me Rickson is the all time numero 1, but I have a huge admiration for Rolls. Even my logo is based on Rolls fight agains Karate.
+Sandro Padial, that was an awesome set of matches!
No doubt he's good but he did chicken out against Sakuraba
No way bro. In my humble opinion
Rolls only gave out 6 black belts
Good assessment. I agree Rickson is probably the best Gracie fighter.
Hi ,i really like your videos ,just one minor problem ,the sound quality aint really good ,i usually listen your videos while i am cooking and doin it from my phone and its hard to hear everything.thanks
thanks for the feedback. we're checking my mic situation before the next video.
According to Helio, Carlos didn’t modify anything that he was taught from Maeda. He says Carlos taught him Japanese Jiujitsu and he himself modified to what is now known as Gracie Jiujitsu.
of course, i know that line of thinking. however, Luis Franca was also a student alongside Carlos, yet his students did (largely) the same jiu-jitsu.
So, what we learn from the Gracie Academy- 2.0 or 3.0, do you think?
+Drifter, you know, since Ryron and Rener are so up to date on everything, and they have spent time training with both Kron and Rickson, I have to believe they have incorporated many of Rickson's concepts in their curriculum.
Drifter rener and ryron (especially) has developed the concepts with kron... he could dominate in competition if he entered...
OK, thanks guys. Yeah, what you're saying makes perfect sense.
+Drifter, Prof Chris Saunders at the Gracie Academy is Rickson's 1st American BB and is a Dirty Dozen member.
Well that pretty uniformly answers that question. :)
Love the history !
Rolls trained with Helio and Carlson and helped train Rickson but Carlson was the first champion of the Gracie family after Helio was too old and was argueably the one who who was the first MMA Gracie champion as he faught the best MMA guys of the time!
+Matt Matthews all probably true!
From what I've seen & read, Rolls was more talented, where Rickson was more cerebral
Rolls was the best back then . Rolls used to train with Carlson . Rickson was too young. Hélio used to bring rickson to Carlson academy and rosado ( best Carlson Gracie student) used to smash rickson .
We all get smashed in our beginings.
Rickson is the best. He has shown himself to be one of the most humble members of the familly, so I believe him. If REFUSING A RED BELT because of time requirement is not a sign of humility, I don't know what is.
@Brian Alfredo no thanks.
@Brian Alfredo THERE ARE a lot of Spawn fans! Spawn is the best-selling non-DC/Marvel comic book series ever! It's just that Spawn has no real presence in media outside of comics, and to honest, it's really annoying.
@Brian Alfredo Interest in the movie from production companies increased a lot following the success of Joker one year ago, so it has resumed production. The production has obviously been slowed down because of the ongoing pandemic, but don't worry! It's coming!
I think Rickson taught Kron on a regular basis?
Basically Hall taught Rickson what he knew. eventually Rickson learned and was larger in size and able to capitalize and beat him, but P4P Halls was better. Size matters. If they weren't family members Rickson couldn't have learned and advanced so quickly to beat Halls. Halls did all the work to travel, learn outside of the family and then pass that information to Rickson. P4P the best.
Rickson was seven years younger then Rolls. Yes, Rolls was very good, that made Rickson excel further than Rolls only because Rolls passed from a hang gliding accident. So we can't say how good Rolls could ever be but we now know that Rickson is a LIVING LEGEND. TO SAY OTHERWISE IS ONLY "HATING".
Pretty sure that I just saw you in an old video of Rickson sparring students after class...you had hair man!!!
And I looked ridiculous then, too!
Thanks bro
Henry Akins is a Rickson blackbelt from white to black.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu
Do you know which Gracie helped to develop the punch defense techniques in GJJ?
+George Batton hmmm... which punch defense techniques in particular are you referring to? At first glance, I want to say Maeda.
I guess not so much the actual techniques but more the concepts regarding punch defense. Closing the distance, keeping close to the opponent, staying far away, use of the stomping kick etc.
yeah, i'm thinking it was Maeda. dude was incredible to have developed what he did from judo.
Wow. He was definitely ahead of his time.
+George Batton he definitely was. Look at how the art progressed from him, and not from him.
What abou carlson? Didn’t he contributed to another level of bjj?
He certainly did. But GM Carlson, Sr has been quoted as saying he thought Rolls was the best. So, although the was among the best of the family, he MAY not have been THE best.
Both legends
If you want to have a talk one day, I will be glad. Regards
would love to. PM me on the Kama Jiu-Jitsu FB page. we can set up a skype/FB messenger call.
ok
We all have to realize holls died very young,I'm pretty sure with another ten years especially considering the Gracie's do live a full life for the most part.,he probably would have contributed even more,Great video
Rolls trained Rickson more so than anyone else in the family. Rickson ability to dominate came from training directly under Rolls. Rickson had a hidden desire to be better than his cousin. Most folks think Rolls is the son of Helio, when in-fact he is the son of Carlos. Rolls takes the nod in this and I haven't watch your video yet, just giving my opinion before I watch, now I want to see how you diagnoise this
Rickson is a lot like Bruce Lee. Legends built on reputations that were assisted by timing and lack of competition. The real question is how do Rolls and Rickson do in today's MMA/BJJ world? How does Rickson do against John Jones or Gordon Ryan? Why did Rickson not fight Sakuraba when both were at their primes and Sakuraba was laying waste to Gracies? Also, what about the Fada. Hello did not create BJJ. Fada learned Judo separate from the Gracies and Fada and his Judo handily beat the Gracies and Helio.
Professor Young, could you do a School Time video on the evolution of the guard? For example, did it initially evolve from failed sacrifice throws from the Kodokan style?
+Izzy Matt, I'm gonna see if Prof Dave Kama can address that one.
Izzy Matt im very much interested in that too. I would suppose Helios lack of fitness would have had him stacked at the bottom over and over and that he started to explore the guard techniques from there.
So why is Helio's side of the family the names in particular, why do all their names start with R?
Some Carlo`s kids bring the !R" in begining of their names too. Carlos was a studant of misticism reads a lot CABALA and learn that word R is a strong and mistical power. Carlos teach that to his brother Hélio que passou a adotar o R for his kids too. I hope that you understand my explanation!
rolls was waaay better...
Rolls was more well rounded open minded.. trained sambo wrestling judo.. he trained all different grappling styles .. there was kosen judo that was just neawaza based guys playing spider guard xguard open guard sweeps submission ect.. Kato was tachi waza a kodokan judoka.. different sport than kosen judo different rules you could pull guard and most of the training was ground work
I would add a another sub-bracket with Brazilian Judo BJ1.0 that merged with GJJ3.0 to make BJJ2.0 and then BJJ 3.0 emerged with De la riva, Royler Gracie and the lighter competitors in the 90's who started the open guard and inverted game we see a lot in IBJJF today
that certainly makes sense. there are a ton of smaller competitors who have provided some unbelievable innovations as the decades went on. we can "slice and dice" this so many ways.
What I love about Jiu Jitsu is how it allows for new styles and tactics to emerge by being inclusive with other grappling arts and incorporating their effective techniques. The way I see it is there there are currently three parallel routs in Jiu-jitsu: Sport, mma and self defense. They are all connected and can cross or into each other, but still their own distinct path in the journey. I'm a biologist and when we look at how species interact with their environment, jiu jitsu is quite similar. Static environments lead to specialists, dynamic environments favor generalists more. In sport jiu jitsu, the environment is pretty static because there are strict rules , so competitors can specialize and have a go to technique in every match. MMA and the street are very dynamic environment ( few to no rules) there fore those practitioners have to be more general and conservative in their techniques. Sorry for the rambling..... your videos get my "wheels turning " I'm always tempted to do my own videos, but yours are great, I love the history!
+Derrick Conover, thank you!
Rolls looked to attack with his Jujitsu rather than defend with it. He innovated their Jujitsu by doing this
Perhaps. But I think Carlson might have been first.
@@KamaJiuJitsu My favorite brother is Rickson, great fighter. When I think of GJJ, he comes to mind and Royler and Royce
@@KamaJiuJitsu Can you do a vid on Carlson and his brothers and sons
I'm very honored to hear history from a credible source, but also from the Rickson lineage. There's always speculation and hearsay from people. There are also people who are bias... but I always have to take into account the sources, even if they are opposing.
I'd be an honor to roll with GM Rickson or any of his BBs.
Thank you Kama-san.
Sorry, but you forgot Carlson Gracie. He was simply the Best for a long time after Hélio, he was the 3.0
i didn't forget him. he was in another video we did.
No body asks about the weight of each man across those 30 rolls. That would be a factor in the results. Rickson looks more muscular as he matured. Rolls not so much. So Rolls techniques could have been better but Rickson was getting stronger and heavier. Physics always is a variable.
At that time, they were likely both in the 160-165 area.
What about the family champion Carlson sr ?
Carlson, Sr is a generation ahead of Rolls, age wise. they're half brothers, but around 20 years apart. Carlson, Sr is on the video we did on Gracie Family Champions here th-cam.com/video/Uo9mzaZAoNo/w-d-xo.html
I like to argue that Carson's contributions where made in promoting team spirit and strength & conditioning training on top of solid technique.
His students where all strong and in shape which gave them an advantage over the guys who purely relied on their techniques.
Also creating a team, without favoring individuals (like his uncle Helio), made the level go up fast.
Rolls, by training with Carlson's team, benefited from this as well just like Rickson later on benefited from training with Rolls.
Therefor in my book I see Carson as Gracie Jiu-Jitsu 2.1 to put it in your classification.
Great point! How's your training with Prof Henry going?
Kama Jiu-Jitsu thank you! To be honest with you, I haven't trained much since my son is born and my students started competing around 4 years ago. I mis it though and will be back soon.
Thank you for the video's. I appreciate them a lot.
+Antoni Hardonk, family first. Jiu-jitsu will always be around. Time with your son while he's a baby never comes around again. God bless you and your family!
Too bad we couldn't get a statement from Rolls to back up what Rickson said.
what about Carly Gracie in San Fransisco? The Lion. He supposedly never lost a match, public or private, including in the family. Is he not at the same age as Rickson and Rolls? Older? How does he compare to these 2 you call the best.
He says he was the best.
Confused on why Helio isn't spelled Relio.
I would like to watch your videos but the sound quality is too frustrating.
Try the newer, more recent ones. Sound quality has always been a challenge for us and we’ve tried multiple solutions. At the end of the day, we’re not a high dollar production, so sound will sometimes be less than optimal. Using different locations probably doesn’t help, either.
I hope the content makes up some for the deficiencies?
@@KamaJiuJitsu thank you for the kind reply
T hank you for addressing our production shortcomings!
carlson was 5,0 at the time
Rolls
Relson said I looked like him with the blue eyes
now, you just need to fight like him, lol.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu I like the girls too much!
Interesting
Rickson calls his pressure "Invisible Jiu Jitsu"
among other things.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu
What are the other names?
Rolls. It's only my opinion. But from what I understand, Rickson was greatly influenced by Rolls. That didn't go well with the rest of the Gracies. Rolls would've been like the modern MMA fighter. Keep in mind, I haven't seen this video yet.
Helio greatly influenced Rolls. Would that mean Helio was still better than Rolls? Just wondering.
I agree. What I heard was that Helio hated the fact that Rolls learned Wrestling and Sambo as well. That Helio said Gracie Jiu-jitsu was the end-all-be-all. @@KamaJiuJitsu
Your analysis of judo back then is wrong. Helio's choke is the same exact choke. Helio drew with Kato in their first match. Helio was better at the same thing. Judo allowed a lot of grappling on the ground back then.
i'm not sure i mentioned that Helio's choke was a different choke. i think i made more of the observation that Kato didn't seem to see it coming, by virtue of the appearance he did nothing to address it. not sure Helio was better at doing the choke. i never saw Kato do it. but Helio's offense was certainly better than Kato's defense in that particular moment.
Rickson is the best.
isn't the gracie barra system by Carlos Jr. an alternative 3.0 since he took influence from both Helio and Rolls to make his game?
+César Alves, that could very well be!
oss sensei
Pedro sauer is black belt under rickson that started from the beginning
some say he trained alongside Rickson vs under Rickson. Pedro does seem to have a tremendous admiration for Rickson though, and they are among the best of friends.
You forgot Carson Gracie
+Eduardo Chueri, I didn't forget him. He's in another video.
So Jiu jitsu hasn't progressed since rolls apart from Rickson ??
Hard to say, but no one has developed it to the level Rickson did.
how bout Royce vs Renzo vs Rickson
I think the teacher says it all. Just mho..
Rolls had a mind that was/ impressive/ innovative / unique. I hate that they good ones die young. I think he's watching... on TH-cam in a spaceship showing aliens how it's done. Aloha
RIP you shine bright. Love
Rolls!! Why there is no video of that??
There is one!
I have a very specifical pont of view, after I study a lot the jiu jitsu history in Brazil. The thecniques and so... there are many missing points, untold in the gracies stories.
Sandro Padial I would love to hear ur point of view :) can u elaborate?
Sr, I will do it a video in my youtube channel, please follow me. Soon I will upload the video english. Tks
Dude, I appreciated your comments, but didn't they both get their black belts from Helio thus coming from "Helio side of the family?"
There was no “side of the family” then, I’m thinking.
@@KamaJiuJitsu I agree. Good insight. Question for you: Going forth now that Helio has been out of the picture for a while will there start to be two or more camps? My jujitsu is from Gigi through Jacare and thus Rolls. You're a Rickson guy. As time goes on, what do you foresee regarding the various Jujitsu disciplines and/or lineages? Weird question I know.
Me personally, i see the “split” not on “sides of the family” lines, but on sport vs self defense lines.
rickson nem se compara com rolls era o melhor da familiar ele humilhava o rickson
o propio carlson gracie disse isso que helio gracie ficava puto da vida por quer ninguem era melhor que rolls gracie.oss
of course, GM Carlson has been known to have had problems with GM Helio. as a result, it would make sense that he would say that about Helio's son. I think GM Carlson had a great influence on GM Rolls (who then out shined him), and GM Rolls had a great influence on GM Rickson (who then out shined him). it's debatable whether Carlson was taught primarily by Carlos, Sr or Helio. But Helio was not liked by many of Carlos' sons, who had no problem talking shit about him and his sons. that's really sad. but oh, well.
I heard a story then watched a video on youtube regarding the Rickson vs Sergio Penha bout. It was said that Sergio was so good that Helio ordered his instructor Osvaldo Alves to give Sergio the black belt even though he was a purple belt at the time. Sergio then had to compete against Rickson at a tournament. Like an amateur boxer fighting Mike Tyson in his first professional bout. The story goes that Sergio was actually dominating the fight and had alot more points than Rickson who was becoming very fatigued. All of a sudden the lights went out in the arena stopping the bout and were off for quite a few minutes and thereby giving Rickson a chance to regain his wind. Rickson then went on to defeat Sergio by mount and choke. And they never competed against each other again.This story calls into question Rickson's ability and dominance. Also the fact that Carson Gracies top black belts also dominated him in training as mentioned by someone here. Don't you think.
You’re referring to the Rickson/Rigan match.
@@KamaJiuJitsu - No, it was Rickson vs Penha and the video might still be on youtube; although I have not checkd recently. If you look up Penha's wiki it mentions it. I also saw the Rigan vs Rickson match and Penha was more dominating than he was.
Rolls!