1274 A Large Peltier Device
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Hello from germany and thanks for a lot of nice videos. Well, i played a lot with this peltiers and here is a little hint before connecting them to parallel. The internal resistance differs a much and a good way for checking is connecting them to a power supply and check the amperes. I got differences between 2-3A by a group of about 50 peltier elements. So before putting them in parallel it is required to group them, otherways it is like putting batteries with different voltages in parallel. Projected to peltier the current from the better ones will heat up the others and the voltage breaks down.
Vielen danke! This is vital information.
About thermal contact: I've had success with lapping Peltier modules. Off the factory, they are somewhat crooked, so instead of using an excessive amount of thermal paste, I ran them across some fine wet sanding paper to plane them. This improved Delta T by a few degrees. (When you can see the shadow of the individual junctions through the ceramic plate, they've had enough!). Also keeping multiple Peltier devices between the same two plane surfaces might not be consistent as they also are of varying thickness. Ideally you want them individually in compression at their force limit according to their data sheet, preferably spring loaded or with the screws in plastic bushings, to take up thermal expansion. I run a single 40W Peltier device as a generator on my bedroom heating pipe. The pipe is at 53 C and ambient is 19-21 C during winter, so it only produces 0.6V! This I run through a boost converter to make 5V at 50mA, which is sufficient to keep my sat alarm clock always charged during winter, In summer the radio is charged by a 20W solar panel in my bedroom window (mostly indirect sunlight, so a 20W panel is what it took). Nice to know we wont oversleep during the apocalypse.
To generate power efficiently you need type TEG, type TEC is used for refrigeration.
I was given a stove top fan like that and I actually thought about putting loads of them together to make power. Glad you did it to show me it works. Cheers👍😉
Heat it with the sun and a Fresnel Lens? Like the parts from one of those monitors?
Very interesting, looking forward to learning more!
Thanks Robert
3:19 the heat gun asmr begins lol
Nice one Rob. I like this topic
Would be cool with a fresnel lens too
I wonder how comparable to a solar cell it may be... I'm assuming not to far off if it had good cooling but would only work if aimed directly at the sun, whereas a solar cell has a wide range of acceptable angles.
jaw dropped by description!
Great way to harvest concentrated sunlight! Might even be able to give solar panels a run for their money, considering that you could potentially produce power with this device in the depths of winter by using the opposite side. For example, in the far north, where in the winter there is hardly any sunshine during the day at all.
Thanks again for another awesome video!
They could work in some scenarios, but usually normal solar will beat it no matter what. Even a simple 15.6mm x 15.6mm salvaged PV cell can easily output two or three amps at around 0.5V and it would be much cheaper to get them than peltier modules as you can just pull them out of damaged solar panels which are dirt cheap nowadays.
Can we use them in conjunction with the solar panels? Almost like a cooling system?
@@carlosvazquez8875 sure ...
Just as well, in the summer when you use thermal solar panel to heat water
Awesome 👏
You may be using the wrong peltier devices. I made a candle powered lamp and used a 10 watt led. It output about 6 watts with only 2 thermoelectric generators. That's about 2 amps, roughly 1 amp per TEG which surprises me since your massive setup only made 0.2 amps
Which model TEG you used exactly? Please link. Thank you
@@yarooseek i can't be sure... I made it several years ago. They were about $2.60 each on ebay and 40mm by 40mm
I'm thinking sterling engine. Also thinking about using the sun and a fresnel lens
JohnnyQ has a TH-cam where he does this.
The King Of Random melted a cinderblock into lava with a fresnel and the sun. Pretty awesome stuff! I built one like his. Video coming soon..
The sterling engine idea is a great use. I would suggest a graphite crucible for the hot end though!
You can make these pretty easily using the two different metals inside. I saw a guy make a huge (not as efficient) one from old coat hangers which had the right metal in them (weird I know). Think it was tesalonian (err spelling) here on YT? 🍻
It was Mr Thessalonian I love that guy he does so much cool stuff
Yeah U can use paper clips or pencil leads or nails & alluminium foil or flashing.
It is called bi-metallic thermo-generation. Use 2 different metals (copper/aluminum) to get electric current with heat. I think that I will ask Robert about that.
The larger, the better.
I'm looking forward to this particular mini-series. Have always been curious if the DC generated, applied to a fan on the cold side, would appreciably boost current.
Not really as you cant just scale current without increasing voltage or reducing the impedance of the fan. This is assuming for example a 12V fan where 13V will not make much difference. Also 200mA is nothing like enough current. High power fans these days take up to an amp.
@@gordonlawrence1448 good points
This is what I am here fore. These devices are seemingly inefficient. But they are low cost, solid state and so simple. If setup in the right way and the right scenario they are game changers and it is awesome.
I would love to see the heating on the bottom of a boat and a fresnel lens for the top. Love these videos, I'm new here but can't get enough.
Heatsink*
Seebeck in full effect.
Used to use this device to cool photomultiplier tubes and they are stackable 🙏 fan essential
I tried this last summer using solar heat . The hot side was placed in an insulated box with a glass lid a bit like a solar oven. If I go back to that project I'll try some reflectors on it to increase the power output.
Great work...thanks for sharing. Always thought provoking and insightful. I'm off on other avenues myself right now but to contribute to this community I'll offer a couple of optimization suggestions learned & earned over the course of two decades developing microprocessor cooling solutions.
First, one could cut the grafoil used to interface directly with TE devices into discrete pads sized for the TE device footprint instead of just laying down a large sheet of grafoil. This will "funnel" heat flow through the TE device and save on the grafoil used....although it will increase time spent cutting these discrete grafoil pads. Additionally, areas without a TE device could be insulated with something like an aerogel blanket...again a synthetic way of funneling the heat flow through the TE devices so that heat flow/electrical potential is not wasted through non-peltier directed pathways.
Anyway, can't thank you enough for the energy related content you continue to create & share. Cheers !
You could do 10x10 on a plate (painted black)stick it in the sun and cool the back with cold water, im thinking one of those little dc water pumps off ebay. Old fridges would be a good source of parts for the cold side.
I made a peltier generator with a evacuated tube two years ago. It worked very well. The cooling side could be left in a stream of water or buried slightly underground to disperse the heat
Cold side with letters. Got it.
not sure if most are aware too but the rating on those is differential, so if it is rated at 60C that means it will generate 30C higher temp on hot side and 30 C lower on the cool side before it starts to loose efficiency and the heat starts to bleed back through along with the unit causing more heat than it is removing, thus why I mentioned before about stacking them as I saw it is a solution for getting higher disparity of heat difference (like 60C cooler and 60C hotter respectively LOL)
* * * * * * * YOU SHOULD ADD A DIODE ON EACH POSITIVE WIRE OF EACH PELTIER BECAUSE IF ONE IS CREATING MORE POWER THAN ANOTHER THE POWER WILL FEED BACK TO THE LESS POWER ONE AND MASSIVELY REDUCE THE OUTPUT. A DIODE ON EACH WILL PREVENT THIS. * * * * * * * *
what specific diode would work ? Ty
Could you do a video on how to make your own large peltier module, so we don't have to buy a bunch of small ones?
Now in reverse, please! What does hooking up the smallest PV cell to the peltier do for the temp difference? Add a cooling grid atop to radiate away & up. Then thermal glue a large surface area that thins to a point below & see how much water it can generate in a day
Maybe some simple evaporative cooling instead of just water?
Spray some Grpahene on the heat sink and get a better result IMHO
You want to stack those and run them in parallel
If you've got 6 sandwhiched on top of each other, hot at the bottom and cold at the top, all of them connected in parallel and series itll balance out the heat difference energy output between them all
Try painting it with that new black that absorbs 99% of light. I bet the sun would cook them right up. Maybe a double pc fan to cool it running from the power it makes?
Hi, do the peltier devices always come in the plate format? I seem to recall a discussion to use long cables in a deep part of the ocean to take advantage of the temperature differential between the cold depths and the relatively warm surface temperature.
It probably wouldn't get U alot of power coz it's got a low differential. It works better the greater the difference & the more the units, it doesn't matter how big they are but need to be wired up alternating between the metal types and hot & cold side.
Awesome u did it, smack it on the hotplate and try 180 degrees celcius and leave the heatsink in room temp. then see it perform. My stove gets too over 200 degrees celcius where the fan is standing it can handle the temp no problems.
Imagine having a little potassium permanganate on the surface (centred) with the heat sink in dry ice or a puddle of liquid nitrogen then add a couple of drops of VG to the potassium permanganate to get a very hot flame. You would generate a lot of energy over a few minutes.
@@jeremiahbullfrog9288 vegetable glycerine
Could you use the current to run a compressor pump (small one) to chill the cold side making it more efficient of a current generator?
I’ve got a single peltier and a perfectly sized heat sink I’d forgotten about…..it’ll make a great little single bear chiller 😊
Created something similar a few month back, you heat sink will need higher fins if you want to passive cool, you will be able to maintain 40c with a fan on the heat sink. You will need a 80-100 degree difference to get close to the rated power. Watch out you solder contacts on the module will melt at 100c
I have been trying to find something that would use the heat of the muck heap, that gets produced as a by product of keeping horses....
This looks very promising!!
Andrea, Jasper and George the Pigeon. XxX.
you can always stack a few peltiers ontop of one another to gain a better temperature differential. I've gotten this to work with up to 4 stacked peltiers in the past. after 4 it seems to stop making a difference.
i contemplated one the size of oh feet near built on the house tied on my stove etc and so forth bla bla lol .Great video Robertt
I wonder if the graphfoil is what grizzly is using in their thermal pads that are reusable, since they do have a carbonaut (they also have a liquid metal conductonaut that you have to protect things from conductive metal contact shorting but has the highest thermal conductivity of everything on there. so.. there is that :)
Cool! i'm curious about the zeolith adsorption fridge test.. :)
We've been waiting 20 years for improvements in Peltier efficiency. I remember running a radio off a thermocouple power by a candle 50 years ago. I would think if we put the Peltiers in series (hot to cold) we might get some possible useful refrigeration. A 40° degree difference is not enough. But then again that puts us up to about 100 watts. Maybe we should go back to the rare metals of thermocouples. Graph-foil, is it; the replacement for paste?
The wood stove fan uses a clever steel flat sheet spring for overheat protection, as the temp reaches meltdown the spring engages and lifts the whole unit off the wood stove.
Love your videos, but can you make a big faraday cage. Thanks. Could I use an old chest freezer as a faraday cage. Cheer's. Can you make one using a chest freezer. Thanks again for your videos.
I have been looking into using Peltier Module to make a small air cooler for my work truck (we currently do not have air conditioning in our trucks.)
Would this be a good starting point or is the heat to cooling ratio going to void the cooling positives.
I've read that if a TEC is good for cooling, it is not good as a generator, must buy a TEG module for efficient power generation (apparently).
Could stacking peltier devices on top of each other work as a mean of multiplying the efficiency of the configuration? I mean, if you only need a temperature difference between the peltiers it should work, right? Also, kudos Robert, your channel has awakened an old and forgotten passion of mine (inventing), I will always be grateful with you for that.
Rob you mentioned in another video zeolite and calcium chloride would heat up , i’ve ordered some sample quantities to soon find out but would the heating effect be enough for this type of application? Also the choice of parallel wiring - is that to lower resistance/ raise output current ? (I need to lookup if Ohms law applies in the case of Peltier’s, i guess not?). Perhaps some points to expand on in future videos :)
I assume that the peltier devices are copper constantan thermocouple clusters?
Maybe a new invention would be to run a watch with a peltier module. The watch will never need battery.. the watch can be charge by the heat of the human body and a capacitor.
Yeah, they just started to manufacture flexible peltiers that can be used to power watches etc.
I know the compressive strength needed to properly use that graphite based sheet is pretty high, but I am wondering if the fact that graphite is porous (there is a channel that I saw using machined graphite blocks to place bearings in, and drilled a hole for putting an air compressor to it so you can pump air into the graphite block, making it an air bearing by pushing air through the graphite block and levitating the bearing on a cushion of air a fraction of a mm thick so when spun it would spin just for ever.) anyway that porosity seems like it would be conducive for making sure no air gets trapped inside the gaps between the interfaces you are trying to fill up with the conductive material :) also I wonder if the pressure can be applied more gently by placing weight on the objects and then putting it all in a vacuum chamber to pull that air out of the gaps and pores of the graphite while letting the weight on it settled down, instead of just applying more downward force to squeeze it out in normal atmospheric pressure. I am guessing also half the needed pressure applied while it sits on some sort of vibrating device like an ultrasonic transducer seems like it would move things around more gently allowing the settling to get maximum performance out of the thermal contact.
you should try doubling them making sure to place them the same direction in the stacks. :) (and good thermal paste between each so the hot side of the first one can be cooled by the cold side of the 2nd one and the heat of the 2nd gets cooled by the heat sink, and some fans. I have seen some stacked 4 deep. Really thinking we could generate that needed super cold temps for cloud chamber's to detect radiation particles :)
you mean graphoil Plus conductive ink binder oc 💯
You could stick it in the dirt under the sun.
can you run a peltier device in a full vacume, im curious to how it would perform.
Using biogas as your heat source( hot side) to produce electricity might be more efficient than using biogas to run a gas generator which is approximately only 15-20% efficient.
You need just as massive a thermal spreader in the hot side as you have on the cold side so as to keep them all thermally in parallel, and not fighting each-other electrically.
I'd use thermal epoxy and then remove the clamping screws too.
It could placed under a solar panel to cool the panel and draw the heat for extra solar energy?
Well done i made one of those before, i did find TEG's work alot better then TEC's for generating power
TEC are optimised for Cooling
TEG are optimized for generating power alot more efficient.
Lol i thouggt it be great way to make a thermal battery with two thermos's one filled with Hot salt water and the other thermos filled with super cold salt water with TEG in the middle 😀
I never did make one because i didn't have thermos and nor did i ever remember to buy one.
Maybe on your spare time 😉
Oh yeah and you could technically recharge it aswell 😏
Cool ! Have you seen Tech Ingredients channel ? He made a quite a nifty fridge with those. & overall its one of thE best DIY/engineering/maker type channels out there imo.
Seebeck - Peltier / Tomato -Tomahto / TEC -TEG
Could u burn wood in a burner and then power the unit with this method so that u don't need electric input to be able to see the temperature
Why not apply graphene ink to the hot and cold side? Then test it.
I was also thinking you could apply the ink to the edge of the fins.
So, ~1500W heater to generate a temperature differential that produces 200mW from the Peltier device? All kidding aside, I tried an experiment like this once with a large, 54V input Peltier heat pump. It had large finned heat sinks with circulation fans factory assembled on both sides. Efficiency was massively disappointing. They're designed to take electricity and generate a temperature differential. Notoriously inefficient the other way around.
Glad to see you're still making videos, though. I need to get my rear back in gear.
Cheers!
Is there a temperature limit on the peltier device, because I think I cooked mine! I'm not getting any power from it now!
Yes there is I am afraid. There's also difference between the devices themselves. Peltier module is designed for cooling. And is exerciseing,,peltier effect". Design to take the current in, if you will. Designed for set voltage and therefore temperature. TEG module is working on ,,Seebeck effect" and is designed to take in heat much better without destroying it. Be careful what you shop for. There are lot of TEGS sold as TECS.
Thanks for the info, guys!
Oh Rob, two gas guns to heat it up may have made it quicker mate. The other side is to cool for school mate.
Id like to see someone cool a chest freezer with peltier, solar and batteries. It's not efficient but should be less prone to breaking down. Just need some legit insulation
Put your clever turbine beneath it, to cool the fins and place it in the sun under a lens. The power can be run to a capacitor bank, and attached to batteries. If ducted cleverly it can be used to duct the cool air to do something useful😂
Robert, which has more power output - bi-metallic thermo-generation or Peltier junctions? Also, I think you would need 14 Peltier junctions, connected in series to generate enough voltage to charge a 12V battery or do they generate more than a volt each?
Just thinking of the practical application.
Can you connect this to the sand battery
I've often wondered whether one could use Peltier devices for producing solar power; perhaps with a Fresnel lens recycled from a computer/TV screen?
Way too much power, a concentrating lens can reach a thousand degrees C or F. Better to use reflective panels, like a Sun Oven, aluminum panels.
how about a concentrating solar thermovoltaic panel?
Did you have to remove some videos? Seems like I watched one about some school trying to patent something that was already patent and you called them out over it
I don't think graphoil is better than thermal paste. Do you have sources to this?
I wonder if you can put it on hot sand? Heated up by good ole coal?
2 dissimilar metals or metal carbon will generate electricity at the junction if one end hot the other cold.
I've been fantasizing about connecting lots of Peltier cells to my hot and cold household water supply line and generate electricity. I don't pay for the water but the electricity is not included. What if I could cut the electricity bill if I invest in peltier cells.
They produce very little individually but the water temperature does very little change per peltier. I don't know if this is possible.
Otherwise it would be interesting to compare solar cells vs solar water heating system in combination with Peltier? Don't know. But this is the kind of things that I can't stop thinking about. 😂
What if you stack them? I in series
👍👍👍
Looks like not spreading heat evenly, so may not be getting full use.
Interesting, once I looked up if there was any improvement made to peltier devices, I was thinking..perhaps there is a way to create them in a configuration similar to halbach array with magnets, of course, I know it works differently with magnetism, but I thought it could be awesome if you could have just 1 side with either hot or cold and much higher efficiency and making it so the opposite side is "cancelled" that would be awesome but don't even know if it's possible, maybe with some advanced physics in a few years they could pull that off or maybe I should study physics aha, too bad I'm horrible at maths 😂 .. also I looked up if there was any improvement on efficiency, if I remember correctly I think one company claims to have higher efficiency peltier, it would be interesting to see the specs.
could you put this under your rocket stove ?
Cant see motor.
Too bad these aren't cheap enough to mount onto my solar panels.
Mate , I can see where this is going, but peltiers are very week no good mate ! TEG s are designed to work in reverse , some are 20W each! I suggest they are powered by LRNR which only consumes 2.5w of energy, then you will see OU.
And I'm not sure about his casual example to make one side 200° even if it's Fahrenheit. I don't trust used cooler/ heaters as a used purchase . Only trust cooler only as a used find .
@@michaelcorbidge7914 whether it's used or not , it depends on the polarity, both sides can be hot or cold ,there are no cold only !
@Rob, question, if you are getting 200 mW at a 30-40 degree difference, is it right to infer that it would take 200mW to produce a 30-40 degree difference if you were feeding electricity into it? Since it's a solid-state device, I'm assuming that to be the case but just curious to know if that's an oversimplification. The reason I'm curious about it, is based on the work some guys in the US have been doing on using low-temperature steam to drive a tesla turbine in a vacuum, where the "hot" side drives the turbine and as it moves through it becomes cold, and they use a "cold" side the generate flow of the steam through the system. Right now they are heating the "hot" side with a burner and cooling the cold side with ice, but it seems to me, you could potentially use a Peltier device to maintain a constant temperature difference, to drive the turbine more efficiently.
Unfortunately not. Peltiers are VERY inefficient. From my experience with Peltiers around 25 years ago (to cool a Pentium 3 500 to subzero temperatures), they need a lot of energy to sustain the temperature difference. I had to use a seperate energy source for providing the roughly needed 100Watts...
Does anyone realise he's a smartarse an ima dumbarse?
How useless and wasteful, cant even generate 1w