The issue with SEE is that any team SEE + Bane can beat can also be beat just as easy, if not even EASIER by Bane + Random high relic sith. Literally throw your R7 Maul/Sidious/Assassin, or even R6 Dooku and boom, Super LV: dead. Leia: dead. Jabba: dead. My hopes and dreams: dead. The chances of me ever feeling the touch of a woman: dead. Most of Bane's power comes from when his ally dies off. SEE usually does not die before Bane, so he ends up missing out most of his kit. Based on my personal squad arena tests, I have around a 90% WR with SEE + Bane against Leia, and 100% WR with Bane + Assassin/Maul/Sidious. SEE + Bane not only wastes two teams, but SEE is so bad that he actually often makes the team worse by NERFING Bane. So if you are in a GAC match and run into an "immovable object", the solution is Bane + a random sith, not SEE. So we have to look at SEE *without* Bane if we are to conduct any proper analysis on the character, since Bane should be classified as his own separate "GL" that functions better on his own. This is when you see the real problems with SEE. SEE times out vs Jabba, an issue that SLKR does not have. SEE even with Wat/Armor/GBA/Nightsisters lacks the damage to ever beat LV. A problem that SLKR does not have. SEE *can* beat JMK sometimes with the right comp, but so can SLKR. SEE is NOT beating any of the commonly seen Rey teams (with non-resistance LS), however SLKR can beat those teams (scary battles with the ult timing but definitely doable as a last resort). Meaning SEE is not only the worst offensive GL (when it comes to GL vs GL combat), but also is pretty bad on defense. So the one thing he's designed to be good at, offense, he's actually the worst at. What SEE excels at though is basically beating every single non-GL team solo or duo with high banners, which is useful in its own right, but when it comes to fighting GLs other than JML, he's laughably bad. There are only two teams my SEE is ever used against in K2-1 where I hover at. Malgus, or Cere/Malicos. Very rarely a Reva/Traya if I'm really out of options.
Good post. I sit in k2-1 and have observed similar things except i regularly use SEE to beat Rey as well as JML. Outside of phenominal datacrons like the current holodcron i dont have much trouble with a rey matchup.
I think marauder is a slight lifter for LV. It's so good that it's worth relicing the bad batch just for it. The last LSBs also helped towards his requirements. However, requiring maul is a HUGE L
Right but JMK is basically the same. Maybe to a slightly smaller degree, but as time has gone on, his dependance on KAT has only gotten worse. Still, stupid move on CG making those two have conquest lifters on day 1.
@@benc8738No, it's really not comparable at all. JMK's team is CAT's most notable application bar none. Maul has his own potentially-GL-beating team to lead.
Love to have you back, and spreading the will to live out to everyone! I think putting SLKR and SEE at the bottom makes sense. My only argument to this video is that Bane was meant to be a lifter for SEE, but he can do everything he does with SEE without him, so I see him used separately a lot more. - Which makes me think he shouldn’t be entered into the SEE equation. 🤔 Food for thought.
I feel like SEE deserves to be demoted from GL status at this point. In the era of datacrons and omicrons, the value proposition of GLs is no longer that they are on a unique level of power, but that they maintain that level of power across all game modes and at all times, and that because they are at that level of power without omicrons or datacrons, adding characters that have these elements can then push their teams, once again, to a unique level of power, if only for specific game modes or for limited periods of time. SEE fails the first part of that proposition because the design of his kit makes him terrible for basically anything but PvP, and within PvP game modes, basically only for offense. He then fails the second part of the proposition because the character that was supposed to use the power of omicrons to push him up to that unique level of power *is actually better off without him*. To add insult to injury, his most effective comps make no sense from a faction/lore perspective and require you to remove essential elements from other teams. He is a GL in name only. I think the only thing that could save him now is a complete rework.
I would agree somewhat that SLKR has pushed to the bottom now but with a main strategy being outclassing my opponent in ships you dont have to be super worried about crazy defensive teams all the way to k3 and a good chunk of k2. However you touched on in my opinion the biggest decider of GL's and that is investment and when it comes to investment no one is worse than LV. Sure some of the characters are good and you get BB but his reqs are the second highest kyro investment, beaten only by jabba. The highest relic requirements and its not really close. And the relic requirements are made even worse by the fact that the actual team you need for vader to really be viable at the endgame requires even more investment. On top of all this you have several semi consistent non gl one shot counters, some being datacron dependant, and several twoshot teams. Although this is a nonpoint if you arent endgame. With every other GL except maybe kenobi youve got something coming out of the box teamwise you have basically nothing with vader BUT, and its a big but, if youre midgame sitting in lower aurodium and high bronzium somewhere the math changes because most people in that area dont have the tools to beat a LV efficiently if at all so he is a very good stonewall. Combine that with a meta fleet and you have 2 teams you need to set and you can save everything else for offense.
Chasing gas after buying the bundle and I applied both of padme zeta right away gonna do the others when I get more zetas I got a question. Is it a bad idea to buy zetas with fleet store currency and in the guild store as well? I NEED ZETAS!!!!
That's the only thing I ever use my fleet currency on. Especially if you have all the ships you need. Guild store, probably better to buy the relic 6+ relic mats since you'll only get 1-2 zeta mats per get3 currency.
@@mayleelove4332 thanks I use guild currency on electrum conductors because....facts haha I have all the fleet arena ships but still trying to 7 star GG but I buy zetas if not
LV is the most underrated GL in my opinion. He gets more holds than all my other GLs (granted its JML an SLKR and a Jabba w/o his ult) and he kills everything but Leia. I will stand by this that LV was one of the best investments on my account. Maybe behind GAS, who is a requirement for LV. Everyone hates on his reqs, but I actually use most of them. Chad Batch, Padme, GAS 501st, even Tuskens are a great team for me on GAC Def. LV's reqs dont help him directly, but they can really elevate your roster with a smidge of work. Both Rey, Kylo, JML and Jabba have at least as bad if not worse reqs (Luke and Jabba having a few basically unusable reqs, Rey and Kylo, almost totally useless teams) and then JMK has Wat, who is good, but is a gate to a large number of players. All that to say, I think LV is like the Nickelback of SWGOH. We all say they suck, but deep down, we know that its only because someone else said they do, despite them having the numbers to back up their success.
@@benc8738 that's great. Hope he gives you much more when you have his Ult though. All the GLs can beat him without the Ult unfortuantly. I'm always looking forward to facing him on Defense because NS works like a charm against Jabba.
@@Nic-San yeah that’s what I’ve heard. Jabba isn’t as dominant as he was at launch. But not everyone has night sisters it seems. Weird cuz they are great
SLKR is the only GL yet to receive a lifter unit. We need Snoke in the game. It's well past due. His kit needs to somehow improve the First Order faction from dying so easily. SLKR himself is strong, but his team is very weak, leaving max banner wins near impossible with him.
@@aandris86 I personally like Pryde better, and also think he will be much more likely, because Snoke was both dead already by the time of, and an enemy of, the SLKR version of Kylo. I just don't see Snoke working for that role with how CG tries to select characters to go together in teams. I think the much more likely role for Snoke will be as a Conquest lifter for non-SLKR FO, similar to what Trench is for the non-Droid, non-Geo Seps.
I’m fairly new. 1.6 gp. I’ve been farming for LV as my first GL since day 1. I don’t care if he’s the best or the worst. He’s my favorite character so I’m going after him first. JMK will be next. I started playing the game because I enjoy Star Wars so I have no interests in going after charters I don’t like.
i did the same and it was worth it! LV is awesome and once you finally unlock him it’s gonna feel great. he’s the hardest GL to get and people say he’s the worst, so it makes it even more special knowing ur one of the few that buckled down and got her done
There was a time before Bane where see wasn’t the worst. Before jmk came out there was literally a very healthy meta where all 4 gls were equal to one another. You had jml>slkr>see>jml with rey being 50/50 against all of them. The inclusion of jmk, lv and jabba really threw see down at the bottom
As an SLKR owner, I agree that he’s subjectively the worst.I think he needs a buff since his kit is really outdated. He can be useful in some cases but with the state of the game now, he’s not as viable as he used to be.
I’d definitely disagree. He’s easier to farm, does really well in GAC and TW. If we are speaking worst, LV is just expensive and his farms and gearing is hard and SEE is just one dimensional.
Bad take, bane doesnt need see and all the counters are done with just bane and sith. The true redeeming quality of see is a bo counter, but even then i feel like kylo can vounter so much more for a midgame account that he wins out
SEE is suffering from success. He’s good enough without having to use the best sith to be useable so people use him with wat and meat shields instead. Imagine using JMK without dissolving the padme team. Or any GL without the best characters in their respective faction. They’d be completely useless on offense and defense. SEE is so good that he just solos everything and with his lifter he’s INSANE. If you actually put good sith with SEE he’s a beast on defense and requires a GL. No one wants to break up the south faction because they’re all so good on their own and SEE is good enough to function without them. If he was absolute trash without the best sith like JMK is without CAT and the best GR or LV without maul and the best empire or JML without the best jedi.. you get the point… then people would actually give him a proper team of sith and he’d be amazing but the fact is he’s good enough without having to break up the other sith teams around him so you get a watered down version of what he was supposed to be and people compare all the other GLs with their best characters to a solo SEE or SEE with trash sith like maul and Dooku and that’s just not a fair comparison
Bane makes SEE good yes.. but the conclusion has been that you are just better off using Bane with a trash Sith character you would not use anywhere else. So Bane really is not much of a SEE lifter at all because it would waste Bane to have him lift SEE lol. So.. SEE still has the same problems post Bane.
People who think Lord Vader is the worst GL either 1. Don't know how to use him properly Or 2. Just don't like him. He's a genuinely decent GL that isn't the best, but is far from the worst
you're missing that bane without see clears almost as much as see + bane apart from that though jmls is the worst gl. he's just bad at everything. slkr also is much better, slkr clears basically every gl when used right, i've used him to clear leia, jabba, lv, jmk and more.
![ยามน็อตขี้เหงา...กับเรื่องเร้าๆในโรงพยาบาลสยอง | Security: The Horrible Nights [ทุกฉากจบ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/28s52EAL9xg/mqdefault.jpg)
The issue with SEE is that any team SEE + Bane can beat can also be beat just as easy, if not even EASIER by Bane + Random high relic sith. Literally throw your R7 Maul/Sidious/Assassin, or even R6 Dooku and boom, Super LV: dead. Leia: dead. Jabba: dead. My hopes and dreams: dead. The chances of me ever feeling the touch of a woman: dead.
Most of Bane's power comes from when his ally dies off. SEE usually does not die before Bane, so he ends up missing out most of his kit. Based on my personal squad arena tests, I have around a 90% WR with SEE + Bane against Leia, and 100% WR with Bane + Assassin/Maul/Sidious.
SEE + Bane not only wastes two teams, but SEE is so bad that he actually often makes the team worse by NERFING Bane. So if you are in a GAC match and run into an "immovable object", the solution is Bane + a random sith, not SEE.
So we have to look at SEE *without* Bane if we are to conduct any proper analysis on the character, since Bane should be classified as his own separate "GL" that functions better on his own.
This is when you see the real problems with SEE.
SEE times out vs Jabba, an issue that SLKR does not have. SEE even with Wat/Armor/GBA/Nightsisters lacks the damage to ever beat LV. A problem that SLKR does not have.
SEE *can* beat JMK sometimes with the right comp, but so can SLKR. SEE is NOT beating any of the commonly seen Rey teams (with non-resistance LS), however SLKR can beat those teams (scary battles with the ult timing but definitely doable as a last resort).
Meaning SEE is not only the worst offensive GL (when it comes to GL vs GL combat), but also is pretty bad on defense. So the one thing he's designed to be good at, offense, he's actually the worst at. What SEE excels at though is basically beating every single non-GL team solo or duo with high banners, which is useful in its own right, but when it comes to fighting GLs other than JML, he's laughably bad.
There are only two teams my SEE is ever used against in K2-1 where I hover at. Malgus, or Cere/Malicos. Very rarely a Reva/Traya if I'm really out of options.
Good post. I sit in k2-1 and have observed similar things except i regularly use SEE to beat Rey as well as JML. Outside of phenominal datacrons like the current holodcron i dont have much trouble with a rey matchup.
bro💀
There is no SEE with Bane. Wasting Bane on SEE is one of the dumbest things you can do with him.
SLKR is a good GL but his team is so bad at this point. A majority of SLKR battles on offense he’s the last man standing
Not majority, all
Agreed, his teams are very soft.
Snoke when?!
You'd think as an Unaligned Dark Side force user he would have a powerful team. SLKR is a GL with lots of untapped potential
This comment did not age like fine wine
I think marauder is a slight lifter for LV.
It's so good that it's worth relicing the bad batch just for it.
The last LSBs also helped towards his requirements.
However, requiring maul is a HUGE L
Kinda funny how maul is able to beat jmk more easily then lv
Right but JMK is basically the same. Maybe to a slightly smaller degree, but as time has gone on, his dependance on KAT has only gotten worse. Still, stupid move on CG making those two have conquest lifters on day 1.
@@benc8738No, it's really not comparable at all. JMK's team is CAT's most notable application bar none. Maul has his own potentially-GL-beating team to lead.
Love to have you back, and spreading the will to live out to everyone!
I think putting SLKR and SEE at the bottom makes sense.
My only argument to this video is that Bane was meant to be a lifter for SEE, but he can do everything he does with SEE without him, so I see him used separately a lot more. - Which makes me think he shouldn’t be entered into the SEE equation. 🤔
Food for thought.
I feel like SEE deserves to be demoted from GL status at this point. In the era of datacrons and omicrons, the value proposition of GLs is no longer that they are on a unique level of power, but that they maintain that level of power across all game modes and at all times, and that because they are at that level of power without omicrons or datacrons, adding characters that have these elements can then push their teams, once again, to a unique level of power, if only for specific game modes or for limited periods of time.
SEE fails the first part of that proposition because the design of his kit makes him terrible for basically anything but PvP, and within PvP game modes, basically only for offense. He then fails the second part of the proposition because the character that was supposed to use the power of omicrons to push him up to that unique level of power *is actually better off without him*.
To add insult to injury, his most effective comps make no sense from a faction/lore perspective and require you to remove essential elements from other teams.
He is a GL in name only. I think the only thing that could save him now is a complete rework.
Asking those hard questions! The crazy thing to me is how we're at an efficiency meta, and that really puts the thumb on the scale for GL value.
hey i j just lost my mom monday to cancer its gunna be rough ty for the smiles
My condolences 😢❤
Just lost my grandma on Saturday. Death is tough man.
"There is only the Force."
- Cal Kestis, Jedi Survivor
Stay strong, my guys 🙏
Stay strong, Man!
Prayers for you!
Will to live has been inceased!!! Lets go!!
The only problem with your theory is that bane is the GL in the SEE and Bane team.
He’s back!
A day with an APness video is truly a good day.
Welcome back! :D
I would agree somewhat that SLKR has pushed to the bottom now but with a main strategy being outclassing my opponent in ships you dont have to be super worried about crazy defensive teams all the way to k3 and a good chunk of k2.
However you touched on in my opinion the biggest decider of GL's and that is investment and when it comes to investment no one is worse than LV. Sure some of the characters are good and you get BB but his reqs are the second highest kyro investment, beaten only by jabba. The highest relic requirements and its not really close. And the relic requirements are made even worse by the fact that the actual team you need for vader to really be viable at the endgame requires even more investment.
On top of all this you have several semi consistent non gl one shot counters, some being datacron dependant, and several twoshot teams. Although this is a nonpoint if you arent endgame.
With every other GL except maybe kenobi youve got something coming out of the box teamwise you have basically nothing with vader BUT, and its a big but, if youre midgame sitting in lower aurodium and high bronzium somewhere the math changes because most people in that area dont have the tools to beat a LV efficiently if at all so he is a very good stonewall. Combine that with a meta fleet and you have 2 teams you need to set and you can save everything else for offense.
I remember when we talked about this on stream and u said you were going to make a video about it ahah
APGAINS VIDEO? A surprise to be sure but a welcome one 🙂
Keep posting man, miss your videos
Chasing gas after buying the bundle and I applied both of padme zeta right away gonna do the others when I get more zetas
I got a question. Is it a bad idea to buy zetas with fleet store currency and in the guild store as well? I NEED ZETAS!!!!
That's the only thing I ever use my fleet currency on. Especially if you have all the ships you need.
Guild store, probably better to buy the relic 6+ relic mats since you'll only get 1-2 zeta mats per get3 currency.
@@mayleelove4332 thanks I use guild currency on electrum conductors because....facts haha I have all the fleet arena ships but still trying to 7 star GG but I buy zetas if not
Good to this content again bud
LV is the most underrated GL in my opinion. He gets more holds than all my other GLs (granted its JML an SLKR and a Jabba w/o his ult) and he kills everything but Leia. I will stand by this that LV was one of the best investments on my account. Maybe behind GAS, who is a requirement for LV. Everyone hates on his reqs, but I actually use most of them. Chad Batch, Padme, GAS 501st, even Tuskens are a great team for me on GAC Def. LV's reqs dont help him directly, but they can really elevate your roster with a smidge of work. Both Rey, Kylo, JML and Jabba have at least as bad if not worse reqs (Luke and Jabba having a few basically unusable reqs, Rey and Kylo, almost totally useless teams) and then JMK has Wat, who is good, but is a gate to a large number of players. All that to say, I think LV is like the Nickelback of SWGOH. We all say they suck, but deep down, we know that its only because someone else said they do, despite them having the numbers to back up their success.
Broooo I am a lsb player , I am really considering going LV as it make so much sense leveling bad batch ! Also crosshair is coming out soon!
Why would you use Jabba on Defense without the Ult?
@@Nic-San cuz I don’t have it. It still got me a hold tho oddly enough.
@@benc8738 that's great. Hope he gives you much more when you have his Ult though. All the GLs can beat him without the Ult unfortuantly. I'm always looking forward to facing him on Defense because NS works like a charm against Jabba.
@@Nic-San yeah that’s what I’ve heard. Jabba isn’t as dominant as he was at launch. But not everyone has night sisters it seems. Weird cuz they are great
Somehow, APgains has returned
SLKR is the only GL yet to receive a lifter unit. We need Snoke in the game. It's well past due. His kit needs to somehow improve the First Order faction from dying so easily. SLKR himself is strong, but his team is very weak, leaving max banner wins near impossible with him.
General Pryde*
@@Ilovevidgames123 that would be cool as well
@@aandris86 I personally like Pryde better, and also think he will be much more likely, because Snoke was both dead already by the time of, and an enemy of, the SLKR version of Kylo. I just don't see Snoke working for that role with how CG tries to select characters to go together in teams.
I think the much more likely role for Snoke will be as a Conquest lifter for non-SLKR FO, similar to what Trench is for the non-Droid, non-Geo Seps.
I’m fairly new. 1.6 gp. I’ve been farming for LV as my first GL since day 1. I don’t care if he’s the best or the worst. He’s my favorite character so I’m going after him first. JMK will be next. I started playing the game because I enjoy Star Wars so I have no interests in going after charters I don’t like.
Don’t forget to start farming wat shards now for jmk
Congrats)
You have understood all SWGOH)
i did the same and it was worth it! LV is awesome and once you finally unlock him it’s gonna feel great. he’s the hardest GL to get and people say he’s the worst, so it makes it even more special knowing ur one of the few that buckled down and got her done
Best Raid: Shadow Legends ad ever lol. Seriously tho I'm doing the same promo. Loving the Stream Elements promo program. Its been helping me out alot
There was a time before Bane where see wasn’t the worst. Before jmk came out there was literally a very healthy meta where all 4 gls were equal to one another. You had jml>slkr>see>jml with rey being 50/50 against all of them. The inclusion of jmk, lv and jabba really threw see down at the bottom
Good video.
SEE + Bane are the cheapest GL + lifter team by far.
But why use Bane with SEE when Bane can already beat everything by himself? If anything SEE drags Bane down
We need chancelor palpatine a lifter for LV
SLKR best defense at the moment you should check datacrons my friend
As he said, datacrons will make things different for like 3 months. Ignoring datacrons, it's different
Outside of Leia SLKR and Jabba all the other GL 's can suffer of not having the right character(s) in their comps. to be trash
He defamed my boy 😭😭
What have you done to my boy
As an SLKR owner, I agree that he’s subjectively the worst.I think he needs a buff since his kit is really outdated. He can be useful in some cases but with the state of the game now, he’s not as viable as he used to be.
I’d definitely disagree. He’s easier to farm, does really well in GAC and TW. If we are speaking worst, LV is just expensive and his farms and gearing is hard and SEE is just one dimensional.
Still LV has the highest hold rate
Plus 75% defense+prot is nice
Instead of roster review streams you should do free Cube streams for "X" number of players
Bad take, bane doesnt need see and all the counters are done with just bane and sith. The true redeeming quality of see is a bo counter, but even then i feel like kylo can vounter so much more for a midgame account that he wins out
Slkr will have a new datacron that will change everything about him.
I too ponder the game AP instead of playing it. It changes a man...
SEE is the best GL to complete the feat to defeat 3 enemies at the same time. He is my red crate GL most of the time.
🤡
SEE is suffering from success. He’s good enough without having to use the best sith to be useable so people use him with wat and meat shields instead. Imagine using JMK without dissolving the padme team. Or any GL without the best characters in their respective faction. They’d be completely useless on offense and defense. SEE is so good that he just solos everything and with his lifter he’s INSANE. If you actually put good sith with SEE he’s a beast on defense and requires a GL. No one wants to break up the south faction because they’re all so good on their own and SEE is good enough to function without them. If he was absolute trash without the best sith like JMK is without CAT and the best GR or LV without maul and the best empire or JML without the best jedi.. you get the point… then people would actually give him a proper team of sith and he’d be amazing but the fact is he’s good enough without having to break up the other sith teams around him so you get a watered down version of what he was supposed to be and people compare all the other GLs with their best characters to a solo SEE or SEE with trash sith like maul and Dooku and that’s just not a fair comparison
Distilling all of your content in ro 30 secs? Post a 13 min video haha! Glad it Apness!
Bane makes SEE good yes.. but the conclusion has been that you are just better off using Bane with a trash Sith character you would not use anywhere else. So Bane really is not much of a SEE lifter at all because it would waste Bane to have him lift SEE lol. So.. SEE still has the same problems post Bane.
The only thing I personally would disagree on is SEE is still the worst!… and I like using him!… bane is a much better GL 😆
JMLS sucks for all the great toons he uses
IMHO? SEE Is the worst GL, eeeeeverytime i catch him in GAC... i just say to myself "eeaaaaaasy money"
People who think Lord Vader is the worst GL either
1. Don't know how to use him properly
Or
2. Just don't like him. He's a genuinely decent GL that isn't the best, but is far from the worst
def lord vader
Who said lord Vader is the worst gl?,because they are 100% correct, he is so trash that I can beat him with bounty hunters or any gl
Lol, worst timing ever for this take. Just as slkr became almoast unbeatable with pilot's new DK 😂
Obviously, he's not referencing the cron on this take. We all know crons are short-lived.
Also, for the time being, Fistocron JMK stomps FOSFTPcron SLKR pretty hard from what I've experienced so far.
Def lord failure. I feel this is defense fallacy if the off team beats everything one shot save all other off in gac context
I’d argue JML is the worst GL. He sucks on defense and isn’t that good on offense either lol
you're missing that bane without see clears almost as much as see + bane
apart from that though jmls is the worst gl. he's just bad at everything. slkr also is much better, slkr clears basically every gl when used right, i've used him to clear leia, jabba, lv, jmk and more.