A worthy challenge! As you show in your explanation of the various emblems of life cycles, the symbols that Erikson embeds in the story add reflection and richness to the reading experience. Such symbols are more than puzzles that we figure out to feel clever - they are meditations that give form to our deepest struggles and hopes. After all, a function of storytelling is to make sense of the chaos around us, to imbue our lives with meaning, and symbols are an important tool in that. Great video - thanks, A.P.!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Fun side note: I had my first dream about Malazan the other night. I had some profound, Erikson-like thoughts that I absolutely planned to remember when I woke up but alas, I did not. I am no Kruppe.
What I love about your channel is that it’s instructive in how to be a better reader, which is an important skill in and of itself and has the potential to actually improve our lives. I feel like not a lot of channels do that. Keep up the great work!
@ssj94 I agree 100%. I am making my way through the series for the first time (currently on MOI) and am enjoying the way AP helps me frame and contextualize the things I have read. Especially knowing how my perception of many of these things will change as I progress through the other books. Quickly becoming one of my favorite channels. I also appreciate the spoiler tags. ;)
I just love what (I think) you are doing here, sir. You are proposing to us, non-literay academics, literary tools and concepts so will enjoy more from our reading. The application of those tools and concepts seem to bring you a merriment that would not be possible without them, and you share that with us, so we can experience it, too. At least, it's what your videos bring to me. And for that, I deeply thank you!
Thank you so much for watching, and thank you for the very kind words. I really hope that these videos are enjoyable and don't come across as stern lectures about how you must read. If you enjoyed them, and if they were useful to you, then you have made me very happy, as that was my intent. Reading is a wonderful solo pleasure, but it is in sharing our experiences with others, in these opportunities to talk to other fans and readers, that some of the greatest joy lies.
@@ACriticalDragon Is it not the case with everything we experience that really move one's soul toward a space of joy? We want to share it, we don't want to keep it for oneself. In any rate, thank you for doing this, and for making me discover Vallestad! I was really seeking to these levels of analysis, it really enrich my reading experiences.
You explain all these things so passionately and beautifully that one cannot but fall in love with the scholastic approach on these books. The fact that you see so much detail and share it with us enriches the experience of these books so much! Please continue to create content like this, it's amazing! Oh and thank you for this video!
@@ACriticalDragon Your storytelling gifts are wonderful. And your encouragement to open our minds and look out for recurrences is something that will help us see more in any book we read. Someone should pay you for this!
Interesting to learn the difference between "close reading" and "attentive reading." My degrees are in music, so I often relate the literary techniques you describe to music composition ones. The same device of recurring themes or motifs ("symbols") occurs in musical works. Active engagement and re-listening often reveals how recurring themes/motifs provide foreshadowing, development, and meaning. I look forward to learning more about how symbols interconnect between books in the Malazan Book of the Fallen. I ramble, but I really enjoyed this video!
Hi Johanna, I am glad that you liked the video. It has been a verrrrrrrrry long time since I studied music, so I will absolutely take your word for it. Not my 'forte' (music pun). It makes me incredibly happy that people are enjoying these videos and that, at least for some, it is adding to their reading experience.
Your remarks strike a chord with me (pun intended), Johanna. I know a lot about musical structure, especially the symphonic variety and in Wagnerian opera. I approach those huge Erikson structures also in a musical way.
@@JohanHerrenberg Not sure if it's the most apt comparison, but I often think about Wagner when reading Malazan. I love that you think about musical structures when reading Erikson as well!
@@Johanna_reads Well, to be very precise: the epic scale reminds me of Wagner, the content reminds me of Mahler: enormous variety, from the grand to the ludicrous, and an enormous intensity of feeling.
Apart from the light you shed on DG, A.P., I love your passionate plea for an active engagement with a (demanding) literary text. A text is like a score and you are the musician who must bring it to life. It takes two to tango.
These running themes and symbols are one of the reasons why I love the Malazan books so much. I still remember the day I began to read Gardens of the Moon. I was lying in bed and then, a few pages in, probably after the possession scene, I put the book on my chest, I closed my eyes and I tried to feel it, in an emotional sense. Tried to imeagine what was ahead. And then I visualized the other nine books resting on the shelf. And I thought to myself "this is going to be a challenge! and I won't stop until it's done". I am often told that I have an excessive gift to observe details (and it's not always relayed as a compliment :))) Which is probably why I caught these details from the very beginning. And why I was so hooked up with the books from the start. And why I love Gardens of the Moon when so many dislike it. I even told Steve when we met about my long mental list of little details that seemed like nothing, yet I knew they were important and that they weren't there by mistake or just to add to the word count, and that I tried hard to remember throughout the ten, knowing that they will eventually pay off. Kind of like the list of "you will understand this when you grow up" stuff that the adults used to give me as a child :))) Anyway, you were as amazing as ever. I hadn't caught on the link between Felisin being chained and the Chain of Dogs, so that was new. As for the cyclicity of time and civilization, I had a realization while listening to you. The cyclical nature of history and human civilization, particularly as described by Erikson, especially in Seven Cities, with the exceptionally many layers, could also be viewed as elliptical. And it fits naturally with Steve's style of elliptical writing. I know they are different, but they do complement each other perfectly. Lastly, I am far behind on your videos. I have had an incredibly busy and tiring time these past few months and I don't seem to be able to find time for any of the things I like. But I will get myself up to date. Eventually :P
Hi Claudia, great to hear from you. I am glad that you enjoyed the video. You are absolutely right, elliptical time, cyclical time, I should have used the term elliptical to tie more actively into how Erikson describes his writing. But that is what I meant. Time in cycles is never truly circular, so elliptical is just as apt a description. If I was doing these videos professionally instead of as a hobby I might actually write up scripts and proper notes rather than talking off the top of my head, and maybe then I wouldn't make quite so many errors or be quite so rambling... But I hope that the general sense of what I was talking about came across. I am sorry to hear that you have been busy and not had time to relax lately. I hope that you get an opportunity to take time for yourself to decompress. It is a stressful time and we need to make sure that we are taking care of ourselves. Never worry about watching the videos. They aren't going anywhere. I am hoping to be around doing this for quite some time.
@@ACriticalDragon Oh, my hard time began around September and is only getting worse. Work related, but it eats so much of my energy that my mind is obstinately refusing to engage in any intellectual acitivity at this point . I find myself staring at the screen for long periods of time, confused as to what was it that I intended to do. I feel completely burned out. I was supposed to do my re-read of Deadhouse Gates for my interviews with Steve and I didn't manage to stir myself to touch it for the past two weeks (yeah, I know, bad). But at least I am doing my joint reread with my husband of Toll the Hounds (he is on his first read and I am his shadow guide through his journey) As for your videos, they are great, and fun. And the fact that you do it from the top of your head, without notes and preparation ahead gives them soul and personality. I for one haven't seen any mistakes made, so I have no idea what you are talking about :P. Oh, and I am sure I am not alone in loving your rambling either ;)
Great video. One of the most touching moments in Deadhouse Gates is when Cotillion explains that he had gone to such lengths to free himself, but thanks Apt for the chains she has given him. It puts the whole idea of chains in a new light. Fantasy seems especially well suited to symbols that are also integral to the story or the world. Like the dice in Mat’s head, or Heboric’s hands, or the whirlwind itself. Anyway, challenge accepted. I would like to think that I try to do this anyway, but helps so much to be able to hear others’ ideas.
Good to hear from you again. I think that you hit on a great point about one of the strengths of fantasy being its ability to literalise metaphors and deploy symbols as part of the diegesis. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and insights into what you see and find.
It is one of the wonderful, but also slightly intimidating things about these books that there seems to be an endless supply of symbols and hidden meaning. Please do keep looking at these throughout the series, because all those links in the chains are so sweet to discover or remember.
Hi Rob, thanks for watching. One of my favourite things is discovering a new link, or a new thematic connection, but I never worry about the ones I haven't found. If this re-read that I am doing has taught me anything, it is that I will never know it all, but there are such riches in there that I will be satisfied and sated if I only uncover 1 in 100. So I hope that you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@ACriticalDragon Yeah I very much enjoy these videos - and you're absolutely right about not worrying about the links we miss. Just knowing there's always more to discover improves the rereadability all the more. 🤓
Challenge accepted ! Thank you for creating content like this - it really does add to the enjoyment with my current re-read of Malazan. The only downside is it has triggered my OCD for completing my collection of the Subterranean Press editions.
Challenge accepted! I'm about 3/4 my reread of DG, enjoying it 100% more than on my first pass. I feel like reading and rereading Malazan is like archaeological excavation itself. You start digging around a basic outline or shape, but then you need to start brushing away the layers to reveal more details hidden underneath.
@@ACriticalDragon I have been thinking about your advice to be more flexible. I will often pause and think, "Ok, what would AP Canavan say here?" Most of the time, I simply cock my head and go, "Huh, that's interesting," but occasionally something really clicks. I think the key here is taking the time to look for another possible meaning and making it a habit to do so. I may not always find it, but, at least, I'm always giving myself the chance to do so. For instance, after the scene in Ehrlitan when it's explained how the new city collapsed in on the old city, and how a servant blamed himself because he dropped a cup. Seems straightforward to me but maybe my interpretation is too on the nose. So the present is built on the past, but it collapses into the past. It was probably inevitable, and the individual is probably not responsible EXCEPT we know that even a small pebble can trigger an avalanche. Therefore, it's slightly ambiguous, like the reference to ten years as opposed to nine in the prologue. If it's ambiguous, it's probably deliberate on Erikson's part, so, that means it's probably worth thinking about it again from another angle, etc. Again, I may hit a dead end or even being thinking in the wrong way, but I'm taking your advice and trying to stretch my mind so that over time thinking this way will come more naturally. So, huge thanks to you for the encouragement.
As long as you are enjoying it, that is the main thing. I would never want you to become frustrated with it. But I am very glad that it seems to be helping a bit at least.
Duiker I find interesting when we talk about cycles and renewal. It reminds me of a quote from Best Served Cold, something along the lines of how we go through a cycle of change but often times we change back, so a sort of cycle of change and then reversion. In that sense you have Duiker Formally a soldier of the Empire, selected to be made Historian for that reason, but I think that's sort of forgotten along the way. I mean you have the scene where Duiker meets Bult and Coltaine, and this is brought up where before Duiker was in the midst of the action but, nowadays he prefers to distance himself from the heart of the battle, to which Bult says that age has given Duiker wisdom. And then you get to the point where Duiker is tasked with completing the migration to Aren while Coltaine and the seventh hold Korbolo Dom, to which Duiker basically asks "well what does this make me then?" and how being referred to as an "old man" will suffice. Coltaine on the other hand states how that is not a good title because it's referring to someone who has wise, again going back to Bult's statement. The task given to Duiker is certainly not something a wise old man would partake in, nor something he would ever consider at the start of the novel because he would distance himself. So he takes the mantle of what in reality his companions have always seen him as, even though he himself might not have, and what he was to begin with, a soldier.
It takes me so long to read these books (I just started The Bonehunters) because I can't stop myself from digging through all the layers that are on virtually every page. I'll go back and re-read sections and sometimes I'll even reference my copy of Britain BC or Seahenge to better understand how SE is borrowing ideas about ritual and symbolism from our actual past and applying them in a much more literal sense to his fictional world. It is endlessly rewarding!
@@ACriticalDragon while I have your attention, I'm curious if you have any thoughts or insight into how or if Malazan's Shadow realm (in all it's different forms) relates to Jung's concept of the shadow. That could make for an interesting video topic.
@@mccrme I don't think there is a direct correlation. It is more that Light and Dark are viewed as absolutes, and shadow is an intermediary and therefore capable of mutability. It symbolically works because perception is also dependent on perspective and therefore 'shades of gray'. Therefore within the text Shadow works as an extended metaphor for morally complex, capable of change, and illustrative of the power of perspective. Much of the MBotF is about a rejection of unquestioned absolutes and a request to consider the complexity of nuance in a situation.
@@ACriticalDragon The significance of Kurald Emurlahn being shattered is something I'm still coming to grips with--both on a literal plot level and metaphorically--and I've probably been grasping for things that aren't there. In any case, thank you for taking the time to respond. I really enjoy your videos (Philip Chase too!) and it's great to see this kind of literary analysis applied to some of my favorite popular fiction. And on TH-cam of all places! You guys really class up the joint.
Maybe you touched this in another video, but I'm asking it now, so I don't forget later : Do you see a theme of shaping one's own narrative in DG? Most characters here are either building their narrative, hiding it or escaping from it. Duiker tries to make sense of what's happening and impose some logic on the events, he tries to measure them with what he knows, until it fails and he finds another, deeper sense. Felisin feeds herself lies and creates a story for herself to escape the horror of her life. Kalam has a pre-written scenario for his quest, only to find it wrong in the end. Baudin hides his story but opens up in the end. Gardens of the Moon was, in a way, about doubting any imposed narrative, Gates is about finding a narrative or reshaping one's own.
Hi Igor, thanks for watching and the great comment. Subjective perspective and the reframing of perspective subsequent to the receipt of greater knowledge and context is a significant aspect of the series. It gains greater and greater significance as the series progresses. So that is a great point to pick up on. The idea of narrativising perspective and how perception is linked to contextual framing is at the heart of a lot of what Erikson plays with in the series.
I just started my first reread of Forge of Darkness and have been enjoying diving deeper into the themes and imagery. It’s somewhat complicated by the fact that a) I remember almost nothing from my first reading when it was released and b) the series is not complete. Because TCG adds so much information that is crucial to understanding the previous books in MBotF, I’m wondering how much value a close reading has in an unfinished series. Would love to hear your thoughts!
Hi Jennifer, I think that close readings can be very valuable on a scene, chapter, section, and book basis, even if the book is part of an incomplete series. Once a series is complete that can add to or even change a close reading, especially if the ending of a series is revelatory about a hidden or disguised narrative. But even with the Kharkanas books the tone, style, and language point in a certain direction and that can guide analysis. There may be additional symbols or scenes in Forge and Fall that will gain additional meaning or prominence following the conclusion of Walk, but I still feel that it is a useful tool in understanding the first two books. Obviously, it is more useful on texts by authors that engage in that depth of writing, but it is sometimes surprising what you unearth when you start digging into a text.
@@ACriticalDragon Thank you! I was inspired by Christine Vallestad to start keeping a notebook as I read, which I’ve never done before, and I’m finding that it adds a new layer to my engagement with the text. That said, I had wondered whether it would be better to wait until WiS comes out. I appreciate your response because I’m quite enjoying the process!
If you are enjoying it, and it is adding to your reading experience, why would you want to wait for Walk in Shadow? Just think of how much fun it will be to read Walk in Shadow and then go back to your notes. ... Or am I the only one who would describe that as fun?
@@ACriticalDragon Lol. Your question about why I would stop is a reminder of why it’s important to engage in external as well as internal dialogue. Sometimes I overlook the obvious - like the importance of just having fun doing the things I love. And, yeah, it is fun. :)
In terms of how everything is woven together so deftly: It’s always baffled me when people talk about a specific book in this series like it is a standalone (HoC for example) or is entirely disconnected from the others because of a setting change or new plot line/character (MT or RG for example) when, as you put forward here, there is such a poignant thematic, and I would say as well: emotional, undercurrent that acts as the through line across all ten books. In that respect, when Malazan is on my mind I always find my thoughts returning to Book 2: Cold Iron of House of Chains; and how all of the thematic, emotional, and narrative baggage (chains, if you will, har har aren’t I clever) of the previous installments and their events (particularly in this case the Chain of Dogs, and the fall of the Bridgeburners) is placed onto the shoulders of The 14th army as they have to sift through the aftermath. This is the first time that I really tapped into this undercurrent as a reader. Even if you aren’t particularly picking up on these symbols you speak of, the simple visceral emotional experience of these books, from the ending of one to the start of the next one, flow into each other so well, which is what I really love. Great video, as you can tell, your videos always get my mind spinning
I am so glad that you enjoyed the video, and you raise a great point in that the books are all connected. Then again, if we make the analogy to a TV show in which individual episodes can have a narrative, and the season as a whole can have a narrative (which is not necessarily the same as the each individual episode) I think we can see how you can view some of the books as standalones as well as part of a grander narrative arc. I think that the fact that Erikson pulls this off so masterfully is impressive in and of itself. Particularly as the books are non-linear, set in different areas, involve different characters, and it is often only in retrospect do you see the pattern. I think it is a phenomenal achievement.
@@ACriticalDragon I've been watching all of them per book. I'm on Memories of Ice for the first time. about page 30. I still have a few more of your Deadhouse videos to finish
@@ACriticalDragon oh hey I made a Malazan prediction video for House of Chains usng the new TH-cam Shorts feature as a teaser for the relaunch of my channel that your videos have inspired. go listen to it and chuckle about how wrong my prediction that I've immortalized in a public video is.
Malazan isn't Ulysses, but imo it is more difficult than 99%+ of fantasy out there. It's very long, has an intricate world, complex themes, a huge cast acting in parallel theaters, emotionally challenging moments, explicit (sexual) violence, significantly above-average language, periods of long relatively slow build-up, little setup, a lot of subtext, doubt, massively delayed gratification and more. All of these things make it more difficult to read than average fantasy. The fearmongering, scaring people off, thinking that Malazan is impossible to parse isn't helpful, but reading Malazan does take (and reward) a somewhat considerable amount of effort.
Why does nobody mention (and I really expected at least a cursory note exactly in this video) how Erikson is different from many other authors by using olfactory sensations as themes and symbols? Is it so subtle, that nobody realizes? Or is it so obvious, that nobody cares to bring it up? Or am I just overestimating the significance of this little factoid? I don't remember a single smell from any other book series as well as the smell of spices that permeates the air every time a soultaken is in a scene - changing. It's almost like a musical theme starts to play in a movie soundtrack.
Hi Vaclav, you might be interested in the Immersive Description in Memories of Ice video. It is spoiler free and addresses Erikson's use of multi sensory description in description to create a vivid world.
A worthy challenge! As you show in your explanation of the various emblems of life cycles, the symbols that Erikson embeds in the story add reflection and richness to the reading experience. Such symbols are more than puzzles that we figure out to feel clever - they are meditations that give form to our deepest struggles and hopes. After all, a function of storytelling is to make sense of the chaos around us, to imbue our lives with meaning, and symbols are an important tool in that. Great video - thanks, A.P.!
Absolutely true, but there are also things in the story that ARE puzzles to be solved... so you have to pick your battles (so to speak).
@@raswartz A fair point! And puzzles can be fun too.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Fun side note: I had my first dream about Malazan the other night. I had some profound, Erikson-like thoughts that I absolutely planned to remember when I woke up but alas, I did not. I am no Kruppe.
@@raswartz Ha ha! There can be only one Kruppe, which is likely for the best.
What I love about your channel is that it’s instructive in how to be a better reader, which is an important skill in and of itself and has the potential to actually improve our lives. I feel like not a lot of channels do that. Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much, that is vey kind of you to say. I am glad that you are enjoying the videos.
@ssj94 I agree 100%. I am making my way through the series for the first time (currently on MOI) and am enjoying the way AP helps me frame and contextualize the things I have read. Especially knowing how my perception of many of these things will change as I progress through the other books. Quickly becoming one of my favorite channels.
I also appreciate the spoiler tags. ;)
I just love what (I think) you are doing here, sir. You are proposing to us, non-literay academics, literary tools and concepts so will enjoy more from our reading. The application of those tools and concepts seem to bring you a merriment that would not be possible without them, and you share that with us, so we can experience it, too. At least, it's what your videos bring to me. And for that, I deeply thank you!
Thank you so much for watching, and thank you for the very kind words. I really hope that these videos are enjoyable and don't come across as stern lectures about how you must read. If you enjoyed them, and if they were useful to you, then you have made me very happy, as that was my intent. Reading is a wonderful solo pleasure, but it is in sharing our experiences with others, in these opportunities to talk to other fans and readers, that some of the greatest joy lies.
@@ACriticalDragon Is it not the case with everything we experience that really move one's soul toward a space of joy? We want to share it, we don't want to keep it for oneself. In any rate, thank you for doing this, and for making me discover Vallestad! I was really seeking to these levels of analysis, it really enrich my reading experiences.
You explain all these things so passionately and beautifully that one cannot but fall in love with the scholastic approach on these books. The fact that you see so much detail and share it with us enriches the experience of these books so much! Please continue to create content like this, it's amazing! Oh and thank you for this video!
Hi Rox, you are very welcome. I am very glad that you enjoyed it.
@@ACriticalDragon Your storytelling gifts are wonderful. And your encouragement to open our minds and look out for recurrences is something that will help us see more in any book we read. Someone should pay you for this!
Interesting to learn the difference between "close reading" and "attentive reading." My degrees are in music, so I often relate the literary techniques you describe to music composition ones. The same device of recurring themes or motifs ("symbols") occurs in musical works. Active engagement and re-listening often reveals how recurring themes/motifs provide foreshadowing, development, and meaning. I look forward to learning more about how symbols interconnect between books in the Malazan Book of the Fallen. I ramble, but I really enjoyed this video!
Hi Johanna, I am glad that you liked the video. It has been a verrrrrrrrry long time since I studied music, so I will absolutely take your word for it. Not my 'forte' (music pun).
It makes me incredibly happy that people are enjoying these videos and that, at least for some, it is adding to their reading experience.
Your remarks strike a chord with me (pun intended), Johanna. I know a lot about musical structure, especially the symphonic variety and in Wagnerian opera. I approach those huge Erikson structures also in a musical way.
@@JohanHerrenberg Not sure if it's the most apt comparison, but I often think about Wagner when reading Malazan. I love that you think about musical structures when reading Erikson as well!
@@Johanna_reads Well, to be very precise: the epic scale reminds me of Wagner, the content reminds me of Mahler: enormous variety, from the grand to the ludicrous, and an enormous intensity of feeling.
@@JohanHerrenberg I love Mahler! That didn't come to mind, but now you've got me thinking about it.
Apart from the light you shed on DG, A.P., I love your passionate plea for an active engagement with a (demanding) literary text. A text is like a score and you are the musician who must bring it to life. It takes two to tango.
Hi Johan. That is a great simile. Thanks for posting.
These running themes and symbols are one of the reasons why I love the Malazan books so much. I still remember the day I began to read Gardens of the Moon. I was lying in bed and then, a few pages in, probably after the possession scene, I put the book on my chest, I closed my eyes and I tried to feel it, in an emotional sense. Tried to imeagine what was ahead. And then I visualized the other nine books resting on the shelf. And I thought to myself "this is going to be a challenge! and I won't stop until it's done".
I am often told that I have an excessive gift to observe details (and it's not always relayed as a compliment :))) Which is probably why I caught these details from the very beginning. And why I was so hooked up with the books from the start. And why I love Gardens of the Moon when so many dislike it. I even told Steve when we met about my long mental list of little details that seemed like nothing, yet I knew they were important and that they weren't there by mistake or just to add to the word count, and that I tried hard to remember throughout the ten, knowing that they will eventually pay off. Kind of like the list of "you will understand this when you grow up" stuff that the adults used to give me as a child :)))
Anyway, you were as amazing as ever. I hadn't caught on the link between Felisin being chained and the Chain of Dogs, so that was new. As for the cyclicity of time and civilization, I had a realization while listening to you. The cyclical nature of history and human civilization, particularly as described by Erikson, especially in Seven Cities, with the exceptionally many layers, could also be viewed as elliptical. And it fits naturally with Steve's style of elliptical writing. I know they are different, but they do complement each other perfectly.
Lastly, I am far behind on your videos. I have had an incredibly busy and tiring time these past few months and I don't seem to be able to find time for any of the things I like. But I will get myself up to date. Eventually :P
Hi Claudia, great to hear from you. I am glad that you enjoyed the video. You are absolutely right, elliptical time, cyclical time, I should have used the term elliptical to tie more actively into how Erikson describes his writing. But that is what I meant. Time in cycles is never truly circular, so elliptical is just as apt a description. If I was doing these videos professionally instead of as a hobby I might actually write up scripts and proper notes rather than talking off the top of my head, and maybe then I wouldn't make quite so many errors or be quite so rambling... But I hope that the general sense of what I was talking about came across.
I am sorry to hear that you have been busy and not had time to relax lately. I hope that you get an opportunity to take time for yourself to decompress. It is a stressful time and we need to make sure that we are taking care of ourselves.
Never worry about watching the videos. They aren't going anywhere. I am hoping to be around doing this for quite some time.
@@ACriticalDragon Oh, my hard time began around September and is only getting worse. Work related, but it eats so much of my energy that my mind is obstinately refusing to engage in any intellectual acitivity at this point . I find myself staring at the screen for long periods of time, confused as to what was it that I intended to do. I feel completely burned out. I was supposed to do my re-read of Deadhouse Gates for my interviews with Steve and I didn't manage to stir myself to touch it for the past two weeks (yeah, I know, bad). But at least I am doing my joint reread with my husband of Toll the Hounds (he is on his first read and I am his shadow guide through his journey)
As for your videos, they are great, and fun. And the fact that you do it from the top of your head, without notes and preparation ahead gives them soul and personality. I for one haven't seen any mistakes made, so I have no idea what you are talking about :P. Oh, and I am sure I am not alone in loving your rambling either ;)
Great video. One of the most touching moments in Deadhouse Gates is when Cotillion explains that he had gone to such lengths to free himself, but thanks Apt for the chains she has given him. It puts the whole idea of chains in a new light.
Fantasy seems especially well suited to symbols that are also integral to the story or the world. Like the dice in Mat’s head, or Heboric’s hands, or the whirlwind itself.
Anyway, challenge accepted. I would like to think that I try to do this anyway, but helps so much to be able to hear others’ ideas.
Good to hear from you again. I think that you hit on a great point about one of the strengths of fantasy being its ability to literalise metaphors and deploy symbols as part of the diegesis.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts and insights into what you see and find.
It is one of the wonderful, but also slightly intimidating things about these books that there seems to be an endless supply of symbols and hidden meaning.
Please do keep looking at these throughout the series, because all those links in the chains are so sweet to discover or remember.
Hi Rob, thanks for watching. One of my favourite things is discovering a new link, or a new thematic connection, but I never worry about the ones I haven't found. If this re-read that I am doing has taught me anything, it is that I will never know it all, but there are such riches in there that I will be satisfied and sated if I only uncover 1 in 100. So I hope that you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@ACriticalDragon
Yeah I very much enjoy these videos - and you're absolutely right about not worrying about the links we miss. Just knowing there's always more to discover improves the rereadability all the more. 🤓
Challenge accepted ! Thank you for creating content like this - it really does add to the enjoyment with my current re-read of Malazan. The only downside is it has triggered my OCD for completing my collection of the Subterranean Press editions.
Sorry for triggering the OCD... Happy that you enjoyed the video... I think this is a karmic wash... :)
@@ACriticalDragon We'll call it quits if you balance the scales with Oponn's coin ;)
Challenge accepted!
I'm about 3/4 my reread of DG, enjoying it 100% more than on my first pass. I feel like reading and rereading Malazan is like archaeological excavation itself. You start digging around a basic outline or shape, but then you need to start brushing away the layers to reveal more details hidden underneath.
Hi Richard, I look forward to hearing about what you uncover.
@@ACriticalDragon I have been thinking about your advice to be more flexible. I will often pause and think, "Ok, what would AP Canavan say here?" Most of the time, I simply cock my head and go, "Huh, that's interesting," but occasionally something really clicks. I think the key here is taking the time to look for another possible meaning and making it a habit to do so. I may not always find it, but, at least, I'm always giving myself the chance to do so.
For instance, after the scene in Ehrlitan when it's explained how the new city collapsed in on the old city, and how a servant blamed himself because he dropped a cup. Seems straightforward to me but maybe my interpretation is too on the nose. So the present is built on the past, but it collapses into the past. It was probably inevitable, and the individual is probably not responsible EXCEPT we know that even a small pebble can trigger an avalanche. Therefore, it's slightly ambiguous, like the reference to ten years as opposed to nine in the prologue. If it's ambiguous, it's probably deliberate on Erikson's part, so, that means it's probably worth thinking about it again from another angle, etc.
Again, I may hit a dead end or even being thinking in the wrong way, but I'm taking your advice and trying to stretch my mind so that over time thinking this way will come more naturally. So, huge thanks to you for the encouragement.
As long as you are enjoying it, that is the main thing. I would never want you to become frustrated with it. But I am very glad that it seems to be helping a bit at least.
Duiker I find interesting when we talk about cycles and renewal. It reminds me of a quote from Best Served Cold, something along the lines of how we go through a cycle of change but often times we change back, so a sort of cycle of change and then reversion. In that sense you have Duiker Formally a soldier of the Empire, selected to be made Historian for that reason, but I think that's sort of forgotten along the way. I mean you have the scene where Duiker meets Bult and Coltaine, and this is brought up where before Duiker was in the midst of the action but, nowadays he prefers to distance himself from the heart of the battle, to which Bult says that age has given Duiker wisdom. And then you get to the point where Duiker is tasked with completing the migration to Aren while Coltaine and the seventh hold Korbolo Dom, to which Duiker basically asks "well what does this make me then?" and how being referred to as an "old man" will suffice. Coltaine on the other hand states how that is not a good title because it's referring to someone who has wise, again going back to Bult's statement. The task given to Duiker is certainly not something a wise old man would partake in, nor something he would ever consider at the start of the novel because he would distance himself. So he takes the mantle of what in reality his companions have always seen him as, even though he himself might not have, and what he was to begin with, a soldier.
It takes me so long to read these books (I just started The Bonehunters) because I can't stop myself from digging through all the layers that are on virtually every page. I'll go back and re-read sections and sometimes I'll even reference my copy of Britain BC or Seahenge to better understand how SE is borrowing ideas about ritual and symbolism from our actual past and applying them in a much more literal sense to his fictional world. It is endlessly rewarding!
Hi Michael, I am really glad that you are enjoying the books. I completely agree with you.
@@ACriticalDragon while I have your attention, I'm curious if you have any thoughts or insight into how or if Malazan's Shadow realm (in all it's different forms) relates to Jung's concept of the shadow. That could make for an interesting video topic.
@@mccrme I don't think there is a direct correlation. It is more that Light and Dark are viewed as absolutes, and shadow is an intermediary and therefore capable of mutability. It symbolically works because perception is also dependent on perspective and therefore 'shades of gray'.
Therefore within the text Shadow works as an extended metaphor for morally complex, capable of change, and illustrative of the power of perspective.
Much of the MBotF is about a rejection of unquestioned absolutes and a request to consider the complexity of nuance in a situation.
@@ACriticalDragon The significance of Kurald Emurlahn being shattered is something I'm still coming to grips with--both on a literal plot level and metaphorically--and I've probably been grasping for things that aren't there. In any case, thank you for taking the time to respond. I really enjoy your videos (Philip Chase too!) and it's great to see this kind of literary analysis applied to some of my favorite popular fiction. And on TH-cam of all places! You guys really class up the joint.
Maybe you touched this in another video, but I'm asking it now, so I don't forget later :
Do you see a theme of shaping one's own narrative in DG? Most characters here are either building their narrative, hiding it or escaping from it. Duiker tries to make sense of what's happening and impose some logic on the events, he tries to measure them with what he knows, until it fails and he finds another, deeper sense. Felisin feeds herself lies and creates a story for herself to escape the horror of her life. Kalam has a pre-written scenario for his quest, only to find it wrong in the end. Baudin hides his story but opens up in the end.
Gardens of the Moon was, in a way, about doubting any imposed narrative, Gates is about finding a narrative or reshaping one's own.
Hi Igor, thanks for watching and the great comment. Subjective perspective and the reframing of perspective subsequent to the receipt of greater knowledge and context is a significant aspect of the series. It gains greater and greater significance as the series progresses. So that is a great point to pick up on. The idea of narrativising perspective and how perception is linked to contextual framing is at the heart of a lot of what Erikson plays with in the series.
I just started my first reread of Forge of Darkness and have been enjoying diving deeper into the themes and imagery. It’s somewhat complicated by the fact that a) I remember almost nothing from my first reading when it was released and b) the series is not complete. Because TCG adds so much information that is crucial to understanding the previous books in MBotF, I’m wondering how much value a close reading has in an unfinished series. Would love to hear your thoughts!
Hi Jennifer, I think that close readings can be very valuable on a scene, chapter, section, and book basis, even if the book is part of an incomplete series.
Once a series is complete that can add to or even change a close reading, especially if the ending of a series is revelatory about a hidden or disguised narrative.
But even with the Kharkanas books the tone, style, and language point in a certain direction and that can guide analysis. There may be additional symbols or scenes in Forge and Fall that will gain additional meaning or prominence following the conclusion of Walk, but I still feel that it is a useful tool in understanding the first two books.
Obviously, it is more useful on texts by authors that engage in that depth of writing, but it is sometimes surprising what you unearth when you start digging into a text.
@@ACriticalDragon Thank you! I was inspired by Christine Vallestad to start keeping a notebook as I read, which I’ve never done before, and I’m finding that it adds a new layer to my engagement with the text. That said, I had wondered whether it would be better to wait until WiS comes out. I appreciate your response because I’m quite enjoying the process!
If you are enjoying it, and it is adding to your reading experience, why would you want to wait for Walk in Shadow?
Just think of how much fun it will be to read Walk in Shadow and then go back to your notes.
...
Or am I the only one who would describe that as fun?
@@ACriticalDragon Lol. Your question about why I would stop is a reminder of why it’s important to engage in external as well as internal dialogue. Sometimes I overlook the obvious - like the importance of just having fun doing the things I love. And, yeah, it is fun. :)
In terms of how everything is woven together so deftly: It’s always baffled me when people talk about a specific book in this series like it is a standalone (HoC for example) or is entirely disconnected from the others because of a setting change or new plot line/character (MT or RG for example) when, as you put forward here, there is such a poignant thematic, and I would say as well: emotional, undercurrent that acts as the through line across all ten books. In that respect, when Malazan is on my mind I always find my thoughts returning to Book 2: Cold Iron of House of Chains; and how all of the thematic, emotional, and narrative baggage (chains, if you will, har har aren’t I clever) of the previous installments and their events (particularly in this case the Chain of Dogs, and the fall of the Bridgeburners) is placed onto the shoulders of The 14th army as they have to sift through the aftermath. This is the first time that I really tapped into this undercurrent as a reader. Even if you aren’t particularly picking up on these symbols you speak of, the simple visceral emotional experience of these books, from the ending of one to the start of the next one, flow into each other so well, which is what I really love. Great video, as you can tell, your videos always get my mind spinning
I am so glad that you enjoyed the video, and you raise a great point in that the books are all connected. Then again, if we make the analogy to a TV show in which individual episodes can have a narrative, and the season as a whole can have a narrative (which is not necessarily the same as the each individual episode) I think we can see how you can view some of the books as standalones as well as part of a grander narrative arc.
I think that the fact that Erikson pulls this off so masterfully is impressive in and of itself. Particularly as the books are non-linear, set in different areas, involve different characters, and it is often only in retrospect do you see the pattern. I think it is a phenomenal achievement.
This is great!
I am glad that you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching.
@@ACriticalDragon I've been watching all of them per book. I'm on Memories of Ice for the first time. about page 30. I still have a few more of your Deadhouse videos to finish
@@MGWorldwide I hope that you enjoy them. More importantly, I hope that you are enjoying the books.
Have a great week.
for some reason my comment got deleted... the link to Christine Vallestad's channel isn't working for me and I thought I'd give you a heads up
I have tried to fix it, but the link works for me, and the new version looks identical to the old version. But thanks for letting me know.
@@ACriticalDragon oh hey I made a Malazan prediction video for House of Chains usng the new TH-cam Shorts feature as a teaser for the relaunch of my channel that your videos have inspired. go listen to it and chuckle about how wrong my prediction that I've immortalized in a public video is.
Malazan isn't Ulysses, but imo it is more difficult than 99%+ of fantasy out there. It's very long, has an intricate world, complex themes, a huge cast acting in parallel theaters, emotionally challenging moments, explicit (sexual) violence, significantly above-average language, periods of long relatively slow build-up, little setup, a lot of subtext, doubt, massively delayed gratification and more. All of these things make it more difficult to read than average fantasy. The fearmongering, scaring people off, thinking that Malazan is impossible to parse isn't helpful, but reading Malazan does take (and reward) a somewhat considerable amount of effort.
Exactly. The MBotF is roughly 3 million words longer than Ulysses and has dragons.
@@ACriticalDragon and some of them are critical.
Imagine if I had called the channel 'A Grumpy Dragon'... it might have been more apt.
@@ACriticalDragon Or 'A Pouty Dragon'; 'AP Dragon' for short. Plus the cartoon avatar would basically have drawn itself^^
Why does nobody mention (and I really expected at least a cursory note exactly in this video) how Erikson is different from many other authors by using olfactory sensations as themes and symbols? Is it so subtle, that nobody realizes? Or is it so obvious, that nobody cares to bring it up? Or am I just overestimating the significance of this little factoid? I don't remember a single smell from any other book series as well as the smell of spices that permeates the air every time a soultaken is in a scene - changing. It's almost like a musical theme starts to play in a movie soundtrack.
Hi Vaclav, you might be interested in the Immersive Description in Memories of Ice video. It is spoiler free and addresses Erikson's use of multi sensory description in description to create a vivid world.
@@ACriticalDragon Thanks for the tip, will sure do! Sorry if I came across as rude!