This case is so intriguing. I’ve been obsessively watching and researching everything about Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon. Great work on all your videos on this topic, excellent work. Thank you
I don't know if you are still reading the comments of this video but first I'd like to say: GREAT job. I've spent hours myself staring at those photos and now that you've stitched it together, it's obvious to my eyes. Almost seems like the kind of images a partially bound individual who had gotten access to her phone might take while rolling around desperately on the cave floor. The pictures are not taken pointing upwards, but outwards. If it was upwards the lens would be covered with water drops and the images would be quite distorted. As for the cave, I don't know if you've had a chance to study the videos of "Alternate theories." This individual has only posted TWO videos and I'd swear he's got insider information. He claims in the second video that the girls were taken to a cave. And he says that the cave WAS searched by investigators where they "only found chip bags and juice bottles" (and he backs it up with a clip of the investigator SAYING it). Further more, the cave is near the crater lake hot springs, where it has been theorised that the girls went with three of the local boys (who were all gang affiliated) AFTER the hike up the trail. And that this gang used that cave for their own dealings. This is worth the watch, if you have the time: th-cam.com/video/du1y_jRiiGU/w-d-xo.html
Now I know why these photos were actually leaked not released by officials. They pretty much reveal that the girls were thrown in a cave some where and left to die. I think for sure Cris is almost certainly dead at this point. It's interesting how during the day the camera worked GREAT for selfies now it can only capture the back of some ones head definitely doesn't add up at all.
It must be possible to locate this and other caves in this area. In all videos nobody mentions seeing or knowing about caves. Maybe more remains can be found there. Where in this area are caves?
My guess is that their skulls haven't been found because they would show foul play. They probably suffered blunt force trauma to their heads and that would expose this case as a murder instead of an accident.
Good work. Finding this place is the key to solve the case. But I am sure it's on private property. I think it's the place where the psychopath perpetrator trapped the girls. He is the one who took the night photos shortly after he killed them. In my opinion, the night pics tell a clear psychological story. They were on the memory card for some reasons.
@Christopher Bingham I thought so too at first, but its the only thing that makes sense when you keep in mind that the photos on April 1st where clearly photoshopped. Maybe he is very narcassistic and likes to "confuse/play with" the investigators
The key points about these photos. Rather than looking at what they do show look at what they don't. They don't communicate the two most important things that two lost, possibly injured and almost certainly near starving young women would want to communicate: where they were and what condition they were in. Indeed by shooting randomly and awkwardly in the middle of the night the photographer is clearly doing their best not to do this. So it seems obvious that these photos were taken by someone else. So they had their camera. But Kris's head is there, she seems to be alive but is clearly asleep (really close up but head not turned). No surprise really in the middle of the night. So whoever was taking these photos had her, too. The only thing the photographer wants us to know is probably the one thing that wasn't true, ie that she was outside somewhere. Remember the camera was placed to be found. Remember too that these are the only photos taken after the first emergency phone calls.
Why would “bad guys” took these pictures in the first place? Based on the picture timings you need to spend several hours in the jungle in the night. On top of that why repeatedly take pictures of the sky? If they killed the girls and dismembered their bodies, why would “bad guys” returned the backpack with the phones and the camera and the cellphones? Why not to destroy the evidence? Why take such unnecessary risks? For completely unclear benefit. The known activity on the phones and night photographs simply don’t make sense if we assuming the girls were murdered.
If they emptied the backpack people would know that they were kidnapped. If they left the belongings inside alone the authorities could say that they fell into a river and drowned. Or got lost. Or make up any story. But if their backpack was ransacked it would confirm a kidnapping. This gave them a chance to get away with murder. Yes their backpack being found the way it was is suspicious but many people believe that the girl wandered away from the summit and got lost and injured and perished and someone found a put their bag where it was found because nothing was stolen. If everything was stolen we would all know they were kidnapped and killed.
@@amaiyagrace Assailants took pictures of the dark sky at 3 am to confuse the investigators then neatly packed the backpack, but did not bother with burying the bodies? Why risk planting the backpack in the first place where it can be easily destroyed? Why leaving the phones and camera where it can be burned or broken apart and scattered in the jungle or river. The girls get lost in the woods with no cellphone reception. They likely heard something such as helicopter or plane and tried to use camera flash as the signal, the girls later died from exposure to the elements and the bodies were scattered by the wildlife. It’s a tragic case of modern young women underestimating the dangers of the wild forest environment, but not a murder by any means. In the matter of fact none of the evidences indicate that they were murdered.
@@AntonLennikov The youtuber Backpackercoach just found that the nighttime pictures were in a cave. If you rotate the pictures you will see that the stick with the ribbon is the wall of the cave. If the tour guide Feliciano was involved on their deaths he acts suspicious. He inserted himself in everything. He led the search. If he knew where the bag was he would make sure the bag was kept out of sight until he could no longer do so. There are plenty of serial killers who kill and then stage the scene, even get involved in the investigation. Chris Watts murdered his family but after it was reported they were missing he was on the news begging for their safe return until he was caught. Feliciano the tour guide is involved in everything involved with the girls. A couple of men he knew were murdered after the girls. I don't think these girls would just get lost. People said they saw them sitting outside of the city resting. The next we find pictures from inside of a cave. This is so confusing and heartbreaking. I feel for them regardless. It truly is heartbreaking.
They maybe had the camera and phones for a couple of days and needed to manipulate then photos. And then someone that have knowledge about the jungle went out in the middle of the night, to hide in the dark, and took some randoms photos. IF i knowed who lived and worked in the surounding area i would easily mapped out all the things they found and do a cirkle around suspicous areas/buildings. But know 10 years later its not possible in a area that barely had internet back then. Here in my country its easy to se who lived where 10 years ago and who they lived with and evertything is on internet public. You need to do an perpertrator profile with mapping suspicous areas. ITs 8 of 10 someone near that knows the area good thats suspeted.
Or maybe a kinda pit you can't get out off, it looks like the camera could possibly be looking directly upwards, in which case the SOS sign would make sense plus using the flash to attract attention, just a theory.
exactly my idea - I realized that they are most likely in a pit before I even saw this video, - it explains why they were taking sky photos with flashlight - to see the way out, that's by far the most logical explanation. They either fell there or were thrown in at night.
My theory is that the girls managed to escape at some point from the bad guys, but then they lost, or the men found them again. That's when they were killed sadly. I also think that the girls came back to their hotel after hiking, but they were stopped by some guys they met earlier. The men offered the girls to be with them at some famous river where they could swim and have a chill day. Also, the men offered them ride back. I think that's happened immediately after the girls hike and were heading towards their hotel. But they never went to hotel and went with the men who offered them. That's when after one of the men decided to kidnap the girls and have s.x with them :(, the girls tried to fight the men of, but the men managed to knock them and then took them to a cave where they had the girls captured. Then the men argued on what to do next with the girls. In the meantime, one of the girls tried to call a 911 emergency, since it was jungle and cave it was difficult to reach out. After several attempts they managed somehow to escape and last attempt was made before they died. This is heartbreaking, I hope one day the truth will come out.
I wonder simply why their killers left any traces behind at all…camera, cellphones, cash…why not at least make the backpack look like it had been abandoned for two weeks by two lost (dead) women. Dry-standing neatly on a rock? Really? Nothing makes sense in leaving such obvious evidence behind-and money.
Were their hands tied up?!!!! So they could only take some pictures or make emergency calls? is also a possibility no. Bc. who made the emergency calls? This is so intriguing this case! And heartbreaking.
You know the SOS picture, it’s actually from the booklet they were reading while having drinks of Fanta! You can see logos from the booklet (map) kris was reading torn as part of the SOS sign
Rain or Water fall, doesn't mater. They would both do the same thing. Definitely not fog. You wouldn't be able to see into the tree tops like in the photos.
@@BackpackerCoach It would be interesting to check the weather on that day to see if it was raining at all. I heard they disappeared in the dry season but that doesn't mean it didn't rain at all.
Nice montage. As well as a cave interpretation there's another interpretation of the scene - seeing the camera as pointing upwards at the dark trees overhead. The nearby features could be dry because rain was only just starting to fall as these photos were taken. There are some small plants with straight upwards-pointing stems at the upper left of the 'cliff' feature on the left side that indicate its vertical rather than horizontal - rising above the photographer. And the big boulder on the right with the mysterious branch and orange plastic is probably horizontal. There's evidence of wetness reflecting the camera flash low-down in the distance indicating there could be a narrow river or stream just beyond the boulder. My own interpretation is the girls were trapped among boulders and the cliff feature in a river channel with Lisanne injured on the floor with her broken foot, holding the camera in the air at various angles and using the flash to signal for help for some reason at that strange time into the night. The hair photo shows that Kris was there also. I think the night photos were an unintended result of using the flash as the things that seem important like the SOS rock and the edge of the face photos only appear on the edge of single frames. But as others have said I also get the impression there were more photos on the camera than have been released. The Kris hair photo looks like a selected crop of a bigger photo to me.
yep ; I also think the photos were taken with the camera pointing up towards the sky and the rocks on all visible sides are basically vertical walls ; they are in a hole of sorts
I think you may be on to something maybe it was so dark to the point they couldnt see how far up the hole or cave they fell into or wherever they were those pictures look like they were taken like the person was trying to take a picture with flash to try and see the top could explain the flash and the night pictures
I just don't understand why the perpetrator would have taken/planted these photos. They're what make the case so spooky and haunting. Surely it would have been better to just stage the photos of the young women in the daylight and then let them "disappear" into the jungle?
Because they are used with the jungle and going there at night minimize witness. Then taking alot of photos that indicates the simulation of getting lost. They got catched up on ascending mirador then threaten and separated.
If you watch closely in the video Kris’ dad Hans Kremers made of the Pianista trail, there’s a spot where Feliciano who is actually guiding the parents on the trail (yeah...wow) takes a photo with a small camera then turns to Hans one second later and snaps a shot of Hans with a flash. I thought that was weird, his body language made me think he could have taken these pics so quickly too because he’s quick and sneaky
Yes but he was in the village the days they where missing he might know something more sinister and was part of it but I dont think he was the one that did it
Interesting stitching the photos together. Not sure if you are aware Dutch investigators determined the white paper on rocks actually spells out S O S using torn up white plastic bags from a market the girls bought snacks from. The reflective circle is the bottom of a Pringles can the girls had purchased and brought on their hike . Several of the investigators and search teams thought they sought refuge in a cave or ravine .
Outstanding job. This is absolutely chilling. Makes us think a lot. Did someone put together a map with the locations of the findings, including the bones?
My theory is that the girls managed to escape at some point from the bad guys, but then they lost, or the men found them again. That's when they were killed sadly. I also think that the girls came back to their hotel after hiking, but they were stopped by some guys they met earlier. The men offered the girls to be with them at some famous river where they could swim and have a chill day. Also, the men offered them ride back. I think that's happened immediately after the girls hike and were heading towards their hotel. But they never went to hotel and went with the men who offered them. That's when after one of the men decided to kidnap the girls and have s.x with them :(, the girls tried to fight the men of, but the men managed to knock them and then took them to a cave where they had the girls captured. Then the men argued on what to do next with the girls. In the meantime, one of the girls tried to call a 911 emergency, since it was jungle and cave it was difficult to reach out. After several attempts they managed somehow to escape and last attempt was made before they died. This is heartbreaking, I hope one day the truth will come out.
My theory is that the girls managed to escape at some point from the bad guys, but then they lost, or the men found them again. That's when they were killed sadly. I also think that the girls came back to their hotel after hiking, but they were stopped by some guys they met earlier. The men offered the girls to be with them at some famous river where they could swim and have a chill day. Also, the men offered them ride back. I think that's happened immediately after the girls hike and were heading towards their hotel. But they never went to hotel and went with the men who offered them. That's when after one of the men decided to kidnap the girls and have s.x with them :(, the girls tried to fight the men of, but the men managed to knock them and then took them to a cave where they had the girls captured. Then the men argued on what to do next with the girls. In the meantime, one of the girls tried to call a 911 emergency, since it was jungle and cave it was difficult to reach out. After several attempts they managed somehow to escape and last attempt was made before they died. This is heartbreaking, I hope one day the truth will come out.
Good work on the photo analysis. Looks like someone just held the camera up with no regard for its angle or the way it was turned and pressed the shutter button. There are only 2 possibillities 1/signalling for help(whether or not it would do anything at all) after 8 days without food/questionable water supply/scared the girl(s) may have been delirious 2/staged to look like someone wanting help
Wow. I’m amazed at this. Why the heck couldn’t the authorities see this? Great job. I was reminded of this case last night so I did a lil search on here. Your thumbnail and title caught me right away. I’m going to search your other videos, idk if you have more on this case but man I hope so lol!!!
My theory is that the girls managed to escape at some point from the bad guys, but then they lost, or the men found them again. That's when they were killed sadly. I also think that the girls came back to their hotel after hiking, but they were stopped by some guys they met earlier. The men offered the girls to be with them at some famous river where they could swim and have a chill day. Also, the men offered them ride back. I think that's happened immediately after the girls hike and were heading towards their hotel. But they never went to hotel and went with the men who offered them. That's when after one of the men decided to kidnap the girls and have s.x with them :(, the girls tried to fight the men of, but the men managed to knock them and then took them to a cave where they had the girls captured. Then the men argued on what to do next with the girls. In the meantime, one of the girls tried to call a 911 emergency, since it was jungle and cave it was difficult to reach out. After several attempts they managed somehow to escape and last attempt was made before they died. This is heartbreaking, I hope one day the truth will come out.
I also think that the girls did not die at the trail. Some villagers said they saw the girls had returned. After that, a red coloured van was seen offering a ride to the girls because there was no taxi. The girls were then taken to a house willingly or unwillingly where the gang wanted to rape them. One of the gang member told his mother about this crime. A voice recording released by this mother because her son was later also killed. This is what I think is the truth. This case is terribly evil God damn it.
I did what you did, (kinda, though manually with masks) and after i had photoshop fill in the empty spots automatically.. And it looks a lot like a cave indeed, But i think you have to rotate it. The red bags on the twig, aren't on top.. but on the right bottom side.. watch?v=Hu8FOr8pVJU This way seems to make waaay more sense.. (i know i didn't line everything up perfectly, didn't have hours to work on it.. but this should be fine for a general impression) Though, it also means the way these pictures have been taken is even weirder than expected.. Them dying in a cave, near the river would also help explain why remains we're found along the river.. And why their bodies came apart in the river decomposition had set in. Their bodies had time to start the decomposition process in the cave, where it's moist and still warm (unlike the river that would cool them down) Then the joints in their bodies will become weakened, till a flash flood took their bodies into the river.. where they broke up into pieces.. scattering remains along the river.
Isn't a sequence of photos like this consistent with the hypothesis that they fell and eventually died? Where do you get "they were taken here"? Are you suggesting that they were kidnapped, taken to this location (which just happens to be some low place), then left there with their electronics to take photos and attempt to call for help? Isn't this more consistent with a fall? Like, they fell and couldn't get out, and were taking photos upward to attract attention with the flash or something similar?
This is just my opinion. But if you go by the hypothesis they fell in a small ravine and eventually died. Then they should have never been found at all. I don't think they took the photos at all. Why you ask? Because why would anyone turn there hand from up-side right to upside down a bunch of times. It looks like someone was just messing around taking photos. Don't even get me started on the backpack. All I will say is water and electronics don't play well together.
@Christopher Bingham Their remains were is what he is saying, i’m sure you’ve seen many videos on this case but they had remains scattered miles and miles away from the other remains so it doesn’t add up if thy fell in a ravine or something.
The last time they were supposedly seen they were sitting at the edge of town looking exhausted from their hike up the mountain. This was around dusk. I doubt if they were exhausted from hiking the Pianiasta all day and could barely walk they are just going to get up and go up in the middle of the night for another hike. I'm pretty sure if they were sitting at the edge of town resting they were resting to go back to their room and rest. Especially if they were in tank tops and shorts. They were probably suffering from heat exhaustion if they were outside with just 1 bottle of water between them as reported. Btw in those pictures if they had been in the sun all day by the time they got to the summit with Kris's fair skin she should have almost had a sunburn. But in those pictures they look like they haven't been outside at all. At the very least Kris should be starting to have a sunburn on her arms, legs and face, but it looks like neither girl has been outside. The beach scene with them their wet their skin looks like they have been in the sun for a reasonable time but the Boquette pictures look like they haven't been outside at all. Kris should be sunburnt almost blistered. But if its true that they were last seen exhausted sitting at the edge of town I doubt they were wanting to go for another hike up the trail especially in the dark. If they had gone up the trail and saw how hard it was and were exhausted from it I doubt they would go for a hike in the dark up it again. I can imagine they were catching their breath to go back to their room to go bed after their long day when they were intercepted by someone and coerced to go somewhere else even though they wanted to back to their room. I doubt 2 smart woman want to go on a midnight hike on a dangerous trail for sightseeing if they were dehydrated and exhausted. Or were up there and got caught by the dusk. I think they came back and were resting somewhere and got interrupted. They could have even been in their room resting when someone came to visit them and got coerced. I doubt 2 smart women are wandering on a dangerous trail in the dark. They knew to get home at dusk. But I have a daughter with extremely fair white skin and if she is in the sun for 10 minutes she is red as a beet. In none of these pictures does Kris's skin color change like she has been in the sun all day. In a tank top and shorts she should have at least a slight burn but nothing. Lisanne doesn't even have a slight darkening like she has been outside. I'm at the gym daily and if people overexert themselves they are sweating and red and look like they are going to faint. And what's strange is that neither girl is sweaty or looks like she has exerted herself. I have see people walk out of exercise classes that are super intense and they are red, sweaty and look like they are about to faint but the girls in all of the Boquette pictures look like they have just gone outside not been outside for a long time. I workout for 10 minutes and I'm sweating and I'm inside a gym. But they are outside in tank tops and shorts in the blistering sun. They look like just stepped outside 5 minutes before not been outside for hours, days, weeks or months.
Just a question (and I am not questioning your theory here), but if the folks that abducted these girls were sadistic enough to murder them AND dismember them, would they not have been equally sadistic by perhaps photographing both of the girls?, as they were obviously terrified.
I guess they wanted the police to think that they got lost and had an accident, same reason they left their belongings so the police doesn't investigate further
In photo #498 you can see something "weird"on kris left arm that goes behind Ls neck. There ir a small thing on her upper arm. Do you know if this has been discussed?
In my opinion, I think this is one of the spots they forgot to Photoshop out. If you zoom way in on that spot. To me, it looks like the sky with one small radon stick. And in photo#497, The camera angle is very strange. It looks like they where standing high above something like a water fall. And were trying to get something that was very low in the photo. Why would you take a photo of the ground and bushes at the top of a mountain?
@@BackpackerCoach I agree. But with having a really, questioning myself perspective, when i look at thoose pictures. But at first glance i got the feeling that something wrong with these photos mentioned. Then i started to zoom in photoshop. There looks also like cuty paste where the "sky" at the arm are. It could be a waterbottle but is it even possible to bend your arm in that way behind Lisannes back. I want to test that. Yes 497 looks weird.
Stitching shows the photos were taken pointing mostly upwards, towards the sky, from a ravine, vertical walls on both sides ; the branch with the red things is indeed hanging
Bro great job! I've been following this case and spent many hours deciphering evidence and pictures. Subscribed. We need to find out where this cave is.
There is not cave. He's misinterpreting what happens when you look at a 180° image on a flat screen. The reason the rock with the branch seems upside down is because it is at the opposite of the other large rock formation, NOT ABOVE IT! By the way he's not the first one to even align these pictures together : www.reddit.com/r/KremersFroon/comments/m0mpym/360_degrees_interactive_view_night_pictures/
Check out "Dark Rose " she is on TH-cam, she said that the girls found a cave, and were exploring it when 2 men appeared from further in the cave. Maybe Kris and Lisanne stumbled upon a drug factory. She also said that the girls were fed raw fish and water to cleanse them because they were going to be sacrificed, that's the bit I don't understand. And I think she mentioned human organ trafficking, but don't quote me on that, because ive seen so many videos on this sad case, and ive read many theories about what happened to them.
I've never been convinced that one of the girls took those night pictures. I first thought, 'bear?, raccoon?, do they have monkeys there?'...I wonder if that camera could've been butt-dialing, or something (not intentional).
There is way more pictures than this. If you look for them they're easy to get. Where do they go? Juan has access to just about every picture released.
@@BackpackerCoach Yes, he has ones that look like the chin , blurry, of one of the girls was caught in a few of the photos and more. He also has a video of night pictures.
I am so sick of all the conspiracy theories out there. You have solved the puzzle, it makes sense. Thank you. Maybe the remaining missing photo's were kept from the public due to Disturbing content. Omg what those girl's went through. A parent's nightmare. "In the Loving arm's of the Angel's Kris and Lisanne" PLEASE At this age you feel invincible and Adventurous. DON'T.. There are Human's out there that are just Evil Personified, they Don't have a Soul. Trust No One. I can count on one hand ONLY the people in my life I trust 100%. Kindest thoughts to you and your family from Australia. Great Video.
What a horrible way to live life. Of the millions upon millions of adventures that happen annually, you can probably count on one hand the amount that result in a death/murder. Media feeds off of people's despair, fear and hate, for clicks, for revenue. Marilyn Manson said it perfectly when interviewed in the movie Bowling for Columbine: "... consumption through fear." Your neighbour could be a terrorist! Click this link to find out why How many pedophiles are in your area? Tune-in to learn the results that may shock you Now go buy a gun to protect yourself.
@@steve-ww6ut oh, its just crazy, ive been on a pretty deep rabbit hole regarding this case, and I never saw anywhere that there was pictures that werent released, i thought all the pictures were leaked by that Juan guy.
Meant to ask did you check the time stamps on the photos to see if they were taken one right after the other after you stitched the photos together ? To verify they were taken within seconds of each other . The original photos all have an exact time stamp on them .
I do appreciate your hard work on making these videos... however the conclusion at the time stamp 1:35 that someone would need to turn their entire hand around to take a circular picture of the sky seems a bit odd to me... why couldn't they just turn the camera around while keeping their hand the same way, i.e. using two hands to rotate the camera or if they where standing and looking up taking the picture they could have not moved their hands or the camera and instead walked in a circle (like spinning) while taking the pic and shooting up wards. All three are plausible and I am sure there are more ways different angles could be taken while shooting an image. Just thought that was an odd assumption that only the hand could move.
Excellent. I appreciate the time and effort you put into this. I was wondering. Do you find photo 505 strange. It’s looks like an out of focus human mouth that’s open....I see what I believe is the upper row of teeth of a human being....I can actually see the separation of the teeth. What do you think is going on in photo 505? When I first saw it didn’t look like much but as I looked a bit more, it looks like the open mouth of a human being who is either screaming or already dead. I don’t mean to be so morbid but this can be solved or at least figured out if the time and effort is put in. If nothing else, the parents could have some straight answers about what happened to their daughter’s and not the BS story they were given by Panamanian authorities. So little of their remains were found, yet no apex four-legged animal predators in the area, such as Jaguars or Grizzly Bears or the type of four legged animal that could easily take out two people with no problem rather quickly....but even a Grizzly Bear leaves most of the bones in one area....the area where they killed and devoured their prey.
There is not cave. He's misinterpreting what happens when you look at a 180° image on a flat screen. The reason the rock with the branch seems upside down is because it is at the opposite of the other large rock formation, NOT ABOVE IT! By the way he's not the first one to even align these pictures together : www.reddit.com/r/KremersFroon/comments/m0mpym/360_degrees_interactive_view_night_pictures/
@@BackpackerCoach th-cam.com/video/ILqZnlBQcbc/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgyLisUrzqQIJBuwQgB4AaABAg.9LroolfNQC-9M4AG2lU7I4 please check the picutre from 0:06 second what do you think about that?
@@BackpackerCoach or it could be a cave I know this is actually a pretty far reach but idk it's like pieces of a puzzle falling into place. Check out this vid, th-cam.com/video/tv3amtlx6bM/w-d-xo.html the woman says she's a keen eye for photography and us very good. I believe her
This is mind-blowing! I wonder if they searched all the caves in the area?! If not they should definitely do that because they may find evidence( remains etc). And most importantly, why were they taking pictures of the opening of the cave as looking to see what’s outside. Very strange case
@Achmad Wahyu Hidayat it’s not, it’s a spot in Caldera. Not on the trail at all. But the pianista trail past the mirador is definitely creepy. Romain C did a day hike and posted it on his channel. Really nasty-looking place tbh.
But what if they were just lost and or injured and sheltering in a cave, backpack is with them. Kris passed away. Lisanne makes one last attempt to escape the jungle, falls and perished or starves…?
It looks like theyre looking up from a ravene. The photos are looking up and you see rock walls and stars. Also the trees above. Do you think the red papers and rope were them trying to get out?
That makes perfect sense! You really need to contact the parents of Kremers and Froon. Perhaps justice can eventually be dished out to these scumbag murders!
Nice work! So the question remains, what do these photos tell us? Could it be possible that these last 90 pictures were taken from inside a huge well, or a diagonal downhill cave that was to slippery to climb out from? They could have just accidentally fallen in, or worse; 'being kept hostage inside'. Because to me it looks like that the rain is constantly pouring down straight to the location of the lens from the camera. And could it be that Kris was already murdered, and Lisanne was still barely alive? With her last breath she found the energy and a way to grap the camera without being noticed and make some last final pictures were the horror took place? ..... So many questions.....
Neat job stitching the photos together. Just like any panorama the view will be curved and the photo panorama you did wasn't and I have no idea how you do that to a photo montage, maybe you could have a go at it. The one thing that I find hard to swallow is that if they were killed, why did the killers let them keep the camera and phones? Also why did the girls remove their bras and put them in the backpack? It is most certain that the Panamanian authorities have told a pack of lies about what they have found and seem to be protecting the people (like Feliciano et al) who mysteriously happened to find Kris's shorts, the human remains and the backpack all very oddly clean and dry... I'm sure someone had been holding onto that, possibly the authorities which would have given them more than enough time to decide which photos to release and possibly which to let someone "alter" then release. It is more likely they had some type of an accident seeing as they were very ill-prepared to go hiking in a jungle environment wearing only shorts and tank-tops, very little decent food, no safety items or tent/bivi and no torches or GPS device (could have used one of the phones for that)... their phones were in all probability not fully charged when they left to go on the hike as they were only apparently switched on to check for signal and switched off again. Occam's razor probably applies in this case and tragic accident was the cause but people need to keep looking at the possibilities that it was foul play and the perpetrators need finding and justice needs to be metered out. Keep up the good work.
At 12:06 you say, it's a cave! Then I have to ask in WHICH ANGLE does that cave open? Outside the "cave" we see what the pics show: rock,low plants, bushes, small trees, truncs+branches+leaves of big trees,sky. IN NATURE, these things have their position: sky is always topmost, rocks are at the bottom! These pics are taken TOWARDS THE SKY. If it is inside a cave, that cave must have an opening towards the sky. My conclusion is, that it must be in a ravine with kind of ledge offering protection from rain (dry hair of Kris).
You're absolutely on the right track here! Stitching together the night photos is the key to finding the last location of the girls! I dont know why this hasn't been done by authorities. However I believe the images depict the girls being in a deep vertical hole or crevasse (instead of a cave) with smooth rocks making up the steep walls. The full shape of the many leaves indicate they were being viewed from the bottom up. One of the girls must have fallen down this hole on the first day of the hike, and got her foot stuck between boulders at the bottom. The fact that they still had access to their phones and camera tend to negate foul play.
If they got stuck the first day Don't you think they would have taken photos the first night? The night photos were taken either 8 days or 11 days later. I don't believe the girls even took the night photos.
This is just the most puzzling case ever. Seems like their is evidence for both theories: 1) that they just had an accident and succumbed to their injuries or the natural elements or 2) that a 3rd party was involved with the girls deaths
There are photos either deleted from the camera or authorities have not made all photos available...same for any recorded messages or texts Theres no way those couldnt be bothered to leave some messages or photos of their physical condition Somebody deleted messages,photos etc and i dont think it was the girls
So I noticed something nobody is talking about. On the video where the parents are walking the trail. One guide is by the other man. In spanish he says Hey don't say anything to them about....... Look it up.
Maybe they ran out of food. ? Low blood sugar can cause confusion and more. Got lost, injured. ? But then again , they would have naturally taken photos. Where were the bodies located? Near each other? Interesting videos 👍 Great insight..👍
This is it! A cave. All makes sense here. Good work. Is there a possibility that it is a hole in which they fell? Would explain the fractures. And after a massive rain the bodies were washed out of it...
You've done an excellent job locking all these photos together using their common features: if one is rotated, they all must rotate. You make a strong case here for the vertical/overhead orientation of the bag rock with the bags and stick hanging down from the top as well as the paper/Pringles can bottom lying horizontally, but could the bag rock in fact be roughly horizontal with the bags and stick laying on top? Since your panorama establishes a continuous path from the rock face on the lower left all the way to the bag rock, the only way for the bags and stick to be lying on top of the rock would be for the panorama to span nearly 180 degrees. I do not think this is the case. Look at the photo which contains both the Y-branch and the pointed, 90 degree rock feature, and all the raindrops. It's unlikely that this single photo spans such a wide field of view, and if it did, we'd need to explain the following. Rain drops are not perfect spheres and they are not perfect tear drops...they are somewhere in between. They are slightly elongated spheres by air resistance...elongated in the direction of travel. Therefore we might be able to establish the vertical direction by carefully analyzing the shapes of all the drops in the Y-branch-90-rock photo, then finding their mean direction. Just eye-balling the drops might even hint at the vertical. Now if the single Y-branch-90-rock photo really did span such a wide field of view as to put the bags and stick on top of the rock, ~180 degrees from the rock face at lower left, then we might expect the Y-branch-90-rock photo to show two different verticals: raindrops on the left side of the photo would give one vertical direction and raindrops on the right would give another vertical. Also, note that the rock face in the Y-branch-90-rock photo is half-covered in mossy plants and half-bare rock. If the that photo had such a wide field of view as to put that rock face roughly horizontal and fully exposed to sunlight, then why the half-n-half? I also note that the shadow of the bag-stick is offset from the bag-stick more than one might expect, especially for parts of the stick relatively far from the rock, given the tiny parallax introduced by the distance from the flash bulb to the camera lens. Besides that, the shadow is on the left side of the stick. The flash bulb should create a shadow on the right side of the stick, shouldn't it? (Though the tiny parallax may mean that the shadow is directly behind the stick, invisible from the lens.) I submit that the shadow we see is caused by reflected light off either the rock face on the lower left of the panorama or an unseen rock face above and to the left of the bags-stick photo. This would support the cave/overhang hypothesis. Thank you for all the work you are doing here!
Interesting points. I see what you mean about the photo that shows the triangular rock and Y-shaped tree (photo 599 I think) seeming to capture what would seem to be a wider field of view. Does 599 show the Y-shaped tree though? isn't it just off to the left of this particular frame? Looking at the montage five overlapping photos create a panorama that extends from left to right and I think that with a wide angle lens on a compact camera like the Canon this is quite possible. Perhaps it indicates that the angle-topped rocks beyond the branch boulder rise higher towards the Y-shaped tree than it seems? The point you make about the shadows of the branch on the rock being on the left rather than the right is something that also confused me for a time but there's a straightforward answer - it shows this photo was taken portrait format rather than landscape format. When the camera is turned to be used portrait format the flash is not only now slightly above the camera lens but is also slightly on the right side now, so shadows are cast to the left of the object rather than the right as with portrait format.
@@mutinyonthekitkat Also interesting points. It never occurred to me that the camera could be in portrait orientation. I certainly don't know enough about photography to speak to the angular extent of the montage.
well they are not Holladay! snaps are they, one may of been dead the other with the camera. trying to get attention. definitely not standing up with the camera on a tripod, WHAT IS THE CONCLUSHION HEAR ok they are in a cave.
The SOS sign is pretty useless inside a cave and these bad guys are very busy murderers absailing down to a cave taking the night photos for three hours straight in the early hours of the morning and calling emergency services everyday. Even murderers have jobs and families lol there's no way. This is a sad case of two over confident girls getting lost.
The mother of Osman has spilled a lot of things. So did his ex girlfriend. They know everything, if a western country gives them protection they will spill everything. The guys interrupted the funeral of Usman who did two days later. The reason for photoshop is so that Panama can keep luring dumb tourists in to their country, make money and even use these girls look at the american and german girl both raped, one survived because of her strength and the other died like these girls. Women are not safe thanks to these filthy animalistic men.
Photos are looking up at the sky and a overhang that was just above and behind who ever took the photos. The white dots are rain. I also suggest you watch this vid th-cam.com/video/mqNbEhusKVI/w-d-xo.html
Its the cave in the lost waterfalls trail which if you keep going from the pianista trail you can get to the lost waterfalls. I also saw a video of a tourist going in the cave, & there's like white paper in the back I was like that's the cave
If the nighttime photos were them being held captive, why did their captors allow them to keep their camera? I think the reason the nighttime photos are confusing, upside down, weirdly angled and repeated is because they were taken by the killers to convey "in the jungle", but make it disorientating and generic so no one could pinpoint the location.
These photos weren't taken on purpose! Taken by accident, during the scuffle ...💔... the investigators need to go back and locate the cave. Or not! You can lead the investigation 👍👍
@@emmahodgson9244 they could have still written notes in their phones documenting what was happening. Zero need for a connection, though they would have kept trying for one.
This is not a cave: It would make sense IF there wasn't the river visible on the pic with the branch and the red plastic bags. You can clearly see the shimmering of the water. How do you explain that?
so they kiddnaped them then they threw them into a cave. came down with ropes to take the backpack or they came down took the pictures and took pictures of kris hair and lisanne cheek to plant the evidence. the broken map could mean that the cave is not on the map? or it means that the map is useless and only the "guides" can take you to the trails. or that the map (guides) are broken. and the plastic bag from the guesthouse were involve being them who called the taxi!!? so who called the taxi? the taxi dropped them on an early trail
Yes. You're talking about Chris and his site Imperfect Plan. You know Chris did an amazing job with the pictures and showing relative position of those pictures the conclusion was never made that this was a cave. Up until this point it was always believed that they were on flat rock.
No one has actually visually put all the photos together. IE the big flat rock with the stick and red plastic. No one could figure out were that photo went till now. It's not it mite go there. It definitely goes there, everything matches perfectly.
@@BackpackerCoach Erm... I did... And your interpretation is erroneous. There is no cave. You are just misinterpreting a 180° picture seen on a flat screen : www.reddit.com/r/KremersFroon/comments/m0mpym/360_degrees_interactive_view_night_pictures/
@@BackpackerCoach Just to explain myself more clearly. If someone takes multiple pictures at multiple angles from the same point, looking all around them, they will capture a 180° view of their surrounding. If you place that view on a flat surface, like your computer screen, you will end up with elements being at opposite sides appearing as if they are upside down compared to eachother. The branch rock (550) is not above the rock formation (542), it is on the OPPOSITE SIDE of it. It's actually lower, and clearly at ground level. I really invite you to take a look at my 360° render of the full composite, and you will see what I mean by that. As for claiming you are the first one doing something, maybe you should be a little more careful in the future when posting about a case thousands of people are working on all over the world at the same time. I did a full composite including picture 542 almost two months ago and posted it online. I more recently posted the 360° interactive version. I did not see anyone do it before but even then I was careful not to claim I was the first. BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT.
@@MannyLectro I understand what you are trying to say. I just disagree. The stitch that i put together in only 3 photos wide. You would need a minimum of at least 6 or more photos to make 180° view.
OMG! Your video reminded me this story about a medium having a vision the same day the girls disappeared. He called the authorities saying he saw (in his mind) two girls running from something and eventually falling from a high ground into a cave. I consider myself skeptical of this medium thing but perhaps a vision is something that could happen. So maybe this was an accident after all and the killer could be the nature itself. It can be a place so difficult to find that the bones later found were removed by animals like vultures, that's why we have so little amount of them, maybe the rest of their bones could still be in this cave. Apparently this medium man said it is a very hard point to find, it is like a hollow area in the junction of two mountains.
Sloan Bella recently did a video and she said she could see the girls being chased and falling into a well-like hole. Very similar and the most possible explanation I think
At 16:17 you ask what is between SOS and big boulder with red plastics? Answer: NOTHING is in between, because these 2 pics can be CONNECTED like all the others. If you do so the whole circle will close without gaps. How to? Take pic 576 (sos) and connect it to pic 594 by comparing structure of rock and the pyramid-like rocks seen in the background. Now as position of sos pic is clear, the rock in the right lower corner of sos pic MUST connect to 599 and close the circle! There is simply no other possible way to connect. By closing the circle you will see that last pic in circle will not properly overlap with the neighbouring pic. I think this is caused by the technique of photographing with a circular lens. Another problem in connecting ALL pics in one single collage: Pic 599 and 550 are taken into the same direction, but 599 doesnt show the boulder with red plastics. That's why I think (assuming NO ZOOM has been used) that 599 has been taken WHILE STANDING on that boulder of pic 550. Please feedback what you think...
I have an update on the night photos. See link. th-cam.com/video/mqNbEhusKVI/w-d-xo.html I do think that the night photos where all take in the same spot. but some were taken laying down and some taken sitting up. As for connecting the SOS photo and the photo above it. I can explain apart of it. But something still doesn't seem right to me. It mostly has to do with the SOS is very close to the camera and the rest of the photos are at a more normal distance away from the camera. To connect these two photos there will be a lot of distortion. As for the SOS and the big rock with the stick. The SOS is very close to the camera. But the big rock is probably about 3 to 6 feet away maybe more.
It's not on any wall or ceiling. The branch rock (picture 550) is at ground level and oriented the way you would expect it to be. This analysis fails to take into account the fact that the composite of all pictures together forms a 180° view with the ground forming a circle around the sky.
@@MannyLectro I don't think people realize how many photos it would take to make a 180° view. I have be stitching photos together for years now. It just doesn't work like that.
And I've been working with 180/360 degrees content for 8 years now. It's my job. Do you réalise that with a camera angle of 25mm you only need a few pictures to capture one line from left to right on a 180?
I think it was an accident. Why should the murder take picture's? That makes no sense. There hapend to much there for killing somebody. One of them fall and the other want leave her alone. A lot of people write in the comments on Google maps, that you can get lost quickly. That's the point.
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [TEASER MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VC689EgdSIw/mqdefault.jpg)
This case is so intriguing. I’ve been obsessively watching and researching everything about Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon. Great work on all your videos on this topic, excellent work. Thank you
I don't know if you are still reading the comments of this video but first I'd like to say: GREAT job. I've spent hours myself staring at those photos and now that you've stitched it together, it's obvious to my eyes. Almost seems like the kind of images a partially bound individual who had gotten access to her phone might take while rolling around desperately on the cave floor. The pictures are not taken pointing upwards, but outwards. If it was upwards the lens would be covered with water drops and the images would be quite distorted.
As for the cave, I don't know if you've had a chance to study the videos of "Alternate theories." This individual has only posted TWO videos and I'd swear he's got insider information. He claims in the second video that the girls were taken to a cave. And he says that the cave WAS searched by investigators where they "only found chip bags and juice bottles" (and he backs it up with a clip of the investigator SAYING it). Further more, the cave is near the crater lake hot springs, where it has been theorised that the girls went with three of the local boys (who were all gang affiliated) AFTER the hike up the trail. And that this gang used that cave for their own dealings.
This is worth the watch, if you have the time: th-cam.com/video/du1y_jRiiGU/w-d-xo.html
Now I know why these photos were actually leaked not released by officials. They pretty much reveal that the girls were thrown in a cave some where and left to die. I think for sure Cris is almost certainly dead at this point. It's interesting how during the day the camera worked GREAT for selfies now it can only capture the back of some ones head definitely doesn't add up at all.
It must be possible to locate this and other caves in this area. In all videos nobody mentions seeing or knowing about caves. Maybe more remains can be found there. Where in this area are caves?
th-cam.com/video/tv3amtlx6bM/w-d-xo.html
I’ve always found it strange they never found all their body, you’d think they’d find their skulls by now
My guess is that their skulls haven't been found because they would show foul play. They probably suffered blunt force trauma to their heads and that would expose this case as a murder instead of an accident.
It's cave la pandurra.
Where Felicianos son found shoe and foot.
He also found red bag and Pringles chips and guava yogurt!
Good work. Finding this place is the key to solve the case. But I am sure it's on private property. I think it's the place where the psychopath perpetrator trapped the girls. He is the one who took the night photos shortly after he killed them. In my opinion, the night pics tell a clear psychological story. They were on the memory card for some reasons.
th-cam.com/video/tv3amtlx6bM/w-d-xo.html
That's not a very good video.
😂😂😂
@Christopher Bingham as a cover up
@Christopher Bingham I thought so too at first, but its the only thing that makes sense when you keep in mind that the photos on April 1st where clearly photoshopped. Maybe he is very narcassistic and likes to "confuse/play with" the investigators
The key points about these photos. Rather than looking at what they do show look at what they don't. They don't communicate the two most important things that two lost, possibly injured and almost certainly near starving young women would want to communicate: where they were and what condition they were in. Indeed by shooting randomly and awkwardly in the middle of the night the photographer is clearly doing their best not to do this. So it seems obvious that these photos were taken by someone else. So they had their camera. But Kris's head is there, she seems to be alive but is clearly asleep (really close up but head not turned). No surprise really in the middle of the night. So whoever was taking these photos had her, too. The only thing the photographer wants us to know is probably the one thing that wasn't true, ie that she was outside somewhere. Remember the camera was placed to be found. Remember too that these are the only photos taken after the first emergency phone calls.
This is so stupid. why would “the kidnapper” want the camera to be found
@@ivnarc6430 Misdirection. Yes, it’s a bit whodunnit, but it does happen in real life too.
Wow, this was brilliant! You solved a great part of the puzzle.
Why would “bad guys” took these pictures in the first place? Based on the picture timings you need to spend several hours in the jungle in the night. On top of that why repeatedly take pictures of the sky? If they killed the girls and dismembered their bodies, why would “bad guys” returned the backpack with the phones and the camera and the cellphones? Why not to destroy the evidence? Why take such unnecessary risks? For completely unclear benefit. The known activity on the phones and night photographs simply don’t make sense if we assuming the girls were murdered.
If they emptied the backpack people would know that they were kidnapped. If they left the belongings inside alone the authorities could say that they fell into a river and drowned. Or got lost. Or make up any story. But if their backpack was ransacked it would confirm a kidnapping. This gave them a chance to get away with murder. Yes their backpack being found the way it was is suspicious but many people believe that the girl wandered away from the summit and got lost and injured and perished and someone found a put their bag where it was found because nothing was stolen. If everything was stolen we would all know they were kidnapped and killed.
@@amaiyagrace Assailants took pictures of the dark sky at 3 am to confuse the investigators then neatly packed the backpack, but did not bother with burying the bodies? Why risk planting the backpack in the first place where it can be easily destroyed? Why leaving the phones and camera where it can be burned or broken apart and scattered in the jungle or river. The girls get lost in the woods with no cellphone reception. They likely heard something such as helicopter or plane and tried to use camera flash as the signal, the girls later died from exposure to the elements and the bodies were scattered by the wildlife. It’s a tragic case of modern young women underestimating the dangers of the wild forest environment, but not a murder by any means. In the matter of fact none of the evidences indicate that they were murdered.
@@AntonLennikov The youtuber Backpackercoach just found that the nighttime pictures were in a cave. If you rotate the pictures you will see that the stick with the ribbon is the wall of the cave. If the tour guide Feliciano was involved on their deaths he acts suspicious. He inserted himself in everything. He led the search. If he knew where the bag was he would make sure the bag was kept out of sight until he could no longer do so. There are plenty of serial killers who kill and then stage the scene, even get involved in the investigation. Chris Watts murdered his family but after it was reported they were missing he was on the news begging for their safe return until he was caught. Feliciano the tour guide is involved in everything involved with the girls. A couple of men he knew were murdered after the girls. I don't think these girls would just get lost. People said they saw them sitting outside of the city resting. The next we find pictures from inside of a cave. This is so confusing and heartbreaking. I feel for them regardless. It truly is heartbreaking.
@@AntonLennikov I agree, subtract the camera, phones and backpack. What evidence is left, or would be found that leads to a suspect or suspects.
They maybe had the camera and phones for a couple of days and needed to manipulate then photos. And then someone that have knowledge about the jungle went out in the middle of the night, to hide in the dark, and took some randoms photos. IF i knowed who lived and worked in the surounding area i would easily mapped out all the things they found and do a cirkle around suspicous areas/buildings. But know 10 years later its not possible in a area that barely had internet back then. Here in my country its easy to se who lived where 10 years ago and who they lived with and evertything is on internet public. You need to do an perpertrator profile with mapping suspicous areas. ITs 8 of 10 someone near that knows the area good thats suspeted.
The dislikes are coming from Feliciano and his friends.
? Speculating from afar…. Lol. Probably a panther walking just out of sight. They were terrified.
@@SeanRCope What's up Feliciano? How you doing man?
Feliciano gives me the CREEPS !!!
Figures , that guy is toxic at the very least and creepy af. If I met him I wouldn’t go anywhere, especially the jungle, with this dude .
Or maybe a kinda pit you can't get out off, it looks like the camera could possibly be looking directly upwards, in which case the SOS sign would make sense plus using the flash to attract attention, just a theory.
exactly my idea - I realized that they are most likely in a pit before I even saw this video, - it explains why they were taking sky photos with flashlight - to see the way out, that's by far the most logical explanation. They either fell there or were thrown in at night.
very probably a pit, camera pointing upwards towards the sky
Wow, that makes really good sense! Put it together very well.
My theory is that the girls managed to escape at some point from the bad guys, but then they lost, or the men found them again. That's when they were killed sadly. I also think that the girls came back to their hotel after hiking, but they were stopped by some guys they met earlier. The men offered the girls to be with them at some famous river where they could swim and have a chill day. Also, the men offered them ride back. I think that's happened immediately after the girls hike and were heading towards their hotel. But they never went to hotel and went with the men who offered them.
That's when after one of the men decided to kidnap the girls and have s.x with them :(, the girls tried to fight the men of, but the men managed to knock them and then took them to a cave where they had the girls captured. Then the men argued on what to do next with the girls. In the meantime, one of the girls tried to call a 911 emergency, since it was jungle and cave it was difficult to reach out. After several attempts they managed somehow to escape and last attempt was made before they died. This is heartbreaking, I hope one day the truth will come out.
Wow, that's amazing. Slowly it's all starting to make sense.
I wonder simply why their killers left any traces behind at all…camera, cellphones, cash…why not at least make the backpack look like it had been abandoned for two weeks by two lost (dead) women.
Dry-standing neatly on a rock? Really? Nothing makes sense in leaving such obvious evidence behind-and money.
Were their hands tied up?!!!! So they could only take some pictures or make emergency calls? is also a possibility no. Bc. who made the emergency calls? This is so intriguing this case! And heartbreaking.
Interesting! Good work I can't imagine the pain the families have gone through lose such sweet girls!
You know the SOS picture, it’s actually from the booklet they were reading while having drinks of Fanta! You can see logos from the booklet (map) kris was reading torn as part of the SOS sign
Yes, you are correct. I wish people would stop calling the white paper toilet paper. It's pretty obvious it is paper from a brochure or map.
That might not be rain. It may be water droplets from a water fall or close by river or just fog and humidity.
Rain or Water fall, doesn't mater. They would both do the same thing. Definitely not fog. You wouldn't be able to see into the tree tops like in the photos.
@@BackpackerCoach It would be interesting to check the weather on that day to see if it was raining at all. I heard they disappeared in the dry season but that doesn't mean it didn't rain at all.
@@avgrim7729 I have read it was raining that night.
@@BackpackerCoachyou have historical weather data i can double chectj
@@webben717 I really need historical weather data from April 1st.
Nice montage. As well as a cave interpretation there's another interpretation of the scene - seeing the camera as pointing upwards at the dark trees overhead. The nearby features could be dry because rain was only just starting to fall as these photos were taken.
There are some small plants with straight upwards-pointing stems at the upper left of the 'cliff' feature on the left side that indicate its vertical rather than horizontal - rising above the photographer. And the big boulder on the right with the mysterious branch and orange plastic is probably horizontal. There's evidence of wetness reflecting the camera flash low-down in the distance indicating there could be a narrow river or stream just beyond the boulder.
My own interpretation is the girls were trapped among boulders and the cliff feature in a river channel with Lisanne injured on the floor with her broken foot, holding the camera in the air at various angles and using the flash to signal for help for some reason at that strange time into the night. The hair photo shows that Kris was there also.
I think the night photos were an unintended result of using the flash as the things that seem important like the SOS rock and the edge of the face photos only appear on the edge of single frames. But as others have said I also get the impression there were more photos on the camera than have been released. The Kris hair photo looks like a selected crop of a bigger photo to me.
I agree 100% with you.
Only question: why in that night did they take the pics?
yep ; I also think the photos were taken with the camera pointing up towards the sky and the rocks on all visible sides are basically vertical walls ; they are in a hole of sorts
2013
I think you may be on to something maybe it was so dark to the point they couldnt see how far up the hole or cave they fell into or wherever they were those pictures look like they were taken like the person was trying to take a picture with flash to try and see the top could explain the flash and the night pictures
Иди лечись мо тебе больница плачет девушек похители и убили это дураку понятна
I just don't understand why the perpetrator would have taken/planted these photos. They're what make the case so spooky and haunting. Surely it would have been better to just stage the photos of the young women in the daylight and then let them "disappear" into the jungle?
Because they are used with the jungle and going there at night minimize witness. Then taking alot of photos that indicates the simulation of getting lost. They got catched up on ascending mirador then threaten and separated.
If you watch closely in the video Kris’ dad Hans Kremers made of the Pianista trail, there’s a spot where Feliciano who is actually guiding the parents on the trail (yeah...wow) takes a photo with a small camera then turns to Hans one second later and snaps a shot of Hans with a flash. I thought that was weird, his body language made me think he could have taken these pics so quickly too because he’s quick and sneaky
Yes but he was in the village the days they where missing he might know something more sinister and was part of it but I dont think he was the one that did it
@@deliriumbee4678 On April 2nd, the day they disappeared he was in their room for 30 minutes all alone!!’
He was veteran guid he every know where , mountain, rivere .
I think the parents hanging with Feliciano was a case of keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
Interesting stitching the photos together. Not sure if you are aware Dutch investigators determined the white paper on rocks actually spells out S O S using torn up white plastic bags from a market the girls bought snacks from. The reflective circle is the bottom of a Pringles can the girls had purchased and brought on their hike . Several of the investigators and search teams thought they sought refuge in a cave or ravine .
Outstanding job. This is absolutely chilling. Makes us think a lot. Did someone put together a map with the locations of the findings, including the bones?
Sorry Im late. But yes somebody did, there are actually many out there. The finding were all around this one river
Yes, go to Scarlet’s blog. Koudekaas.blogspot.com
Thx for taking time to make this bud. Be well!
My theory is that the girls managed to escape at some point from the bad guys, but then they lost, or the men found them again. That's when they were killed sadly. I also think that the girls came back to their hotel after hiking, but they were stopped by some guys they met earlier. The men offered the girls to be with them at some famous river where they could swim and have a chill day. Also, the men offered them ride back. I think that's happened immediately after the girls hike and were heading towards their hotel. But they never went to hotel and went with the men who offered them.
That's when after one of the men decided to kidnap the girls and have s.x with them :(, the girls tried to fight the men of, but the men managed to knock them and then took them to a cave where they had the girls captured. Then the men argued on what to do next with the girls. In the meantime, one of the girls tried to call a 911 emergency, since it was jungle and cave it was difficult to reach out. After several attempts they managed somehow to escape and last attempt was made before they died. This is heartbreaking, I hope one day the truth will come out.
My theory is that the girls managed to escape at some point from the bad guys, but then they lost, or the men found them again. That's when they were killed sadly. I also think that the girls came back to their hotel after hiking, but they were stopped by some guys they met earlier. The men offered the girls to be with them at some famous river where they could swim and have a chill day. Also, the men offered them ride back. I think that's happened immediately after the girls hike and were heading towards their hotel. But they never went to hotel and went with the men who offered them.
That's when after one of the men decided to kidnap the girls and have s.x with them :(, the girls tried to fight the men of, but the men managed to knock them and then took them to a cave where they had the girls captured. Then the men argued on what to do next with the girls. In the meantime, one of the girls tried to call a 911 emergency, since it was jungle and cave it was difficult to reach out. After several attempts they managed somehow to escape and last attempt was made before they died. This is heartbreaking, I hope one day the truth will come out.
Думаю, примерно, также. Гид и местная банда замешаны, судя по последним данным.
Good work on the photo analysis.
Looks like someone just held the camera up with no regard for its angle or the way it was turned and pressed the shutter button.
There are only 2 possibillities
1/signalling for help(whether or not it would do anything at all) after 8 days without food/questionable water supply/scared the girl(s) may have been delirious
2/staged to look like someone wanting help
Wow. I’m amazed at this. Why the heck couldn’t the authorities see this? Great job. I was reminded of this case last night so I did a lil search on here. Your thumbnail and title caught me right away. I’m going to search your other videos, idk if you have more on this case but man I hope so lol!!!
My theory is that the girls managed to escape at some point from the bad guys, but then they lost, or the men found them again. That's when they were killed sadly. I also think that the girls came back to their hotel after hiking, but they were stopped by some guys they met earlier. The men offered the girls to be with them at some famous river where they could swim and have a chill day. Also, the men offered them ride back. I think that's happened immediately after the girls hike and were heading towards their hotel. But they never went to hotel and went with the men who offered them.
That's when after one of the men decided to kidnap the girls and have s.x with them :(, the girls tried to fight the men of, but the men managed to knock them and then took them to a cave where they had the girls captured. Then the men argued on what to do next with the girls. In the meantime, one of the girls tried to call a 911 emergency, since it was jungle and cave it was difficult to reach out. After several attempts they managed somehow to escape and last attempt was made before they died. This is heartbreaking, I hope one day the truth will come out.
@@aceshimara8405seems like you pulled that out your ass
I also think that the girls did not die at the trail. Some villagers said they saw the girls had returned. After that, a red coloured van was seen offering a ride to the girls because there was no taxi. The girls were then taken to a house willingly or unwillingly where the gang wanted to rape them. One of the gang member told his mother about this crime. A voice recording released by this mother because her son was later also killed. This is what I think is the truth. This case is terribly evil God damn it.
They managed to escape with their cellphones… sure, idiot
I did what you did, (kinda, though manually with masks) and after i had photoshop fill in the empty spots automatically..
And it looks a lot like a cave indeed, But i think you have to rotate it.
The red bags on the twig, aren't on top.. but on the right bottom side..
watch?v=Hu8FOr8pVJU
This way seems to make waaay more sense.. (i know i didn't line everything up perfectly, didn't have hours to work on it.. but this should be fine for a general impression)
Though, it also means the way these pictures have been taken is even weirder than expected..
Them dying in a cave, near the river would also help explain why remains we're found along the river..
And why their bodies came apart in the river decomposition had set in.
Their bodies had time to start the decomposition process in the cave, where it's moist and still warm (unlike the river that would cool them down)
Then the joints in their bodies will become weakened, till a flash flood took their bodies into the river.. where they broke up into pieces.. scattering remains along the river.
good hypothesis
Isn't a sequence of photos like this consistent with the hypothesis that they fell and eventually died? Where do you get "they were taken here"? Are you suggesting that they were kidnapped, taken to this location (which just happens to be some low place), then left there with their electronics to take photos and attempt to call for help? Isn't this more consistent with a fall? Like, they fell and couldn't get out, and were taking photos upward to attract attention with the flash or something similar?
This is just my opinion. But if you go by the hypothesis they fell in a small ravine and eventually died. Then they should have never been found at all. I don't think they took the photos at all. Why you ask? Because why would anyone turn there hand from up-side right to upside down a bunch of times. It looks like someone was just messing around taking photos. Don't even get me started on the backpack. All I will say is water and electronics don't play well together.
But It could had been the camera that was upside down not hand and the girls just used It to lighten their surroundings not intended to take photos..
@Christopher Bingham Their remains were is what he is saying, i’m sure you’ve seen many videos on this case but they had remains scattered miles and miles away from the other remains so it doesn’t add up if thy fell in a ravine or something.
@@peta2391 all of these photos have been edited and lightened up so it’s not very helpful trying to get much light here.
Very interesting theory…I haven’t heard this yet. Makes a lot of sense
I'm not a data storage expert but I strongly get the feeling that there was a ton of photos scrubbed from that camera
The last time they were supposedly seen they were sitting at the edge of town looking exhausted from their hike up the mountain. This was around dusk.
I doubt if they were exhausted from hiking the Pianiasta all day and could barely walk they are just going to get up and go up in the middle of the night for another hike. I'm pretty sure if they were sitting at the edge of town resting they were resting to go back to their room and rest.
Especially if they were in tank tops and shorts.
They were probably suffering from heat exhaustion if they were outside with just 1 bottle of water between them as reported. Btw in those pictures if they had been in the sun all day by the time they got to the summit with Kris's fair skin she should have almost had a sunburn. But in those pictures they look like they haven't been outside at all.
At the very least Kris should be starting to have a sunburn on her arms, legs and face, but it looks like neither girl has been outside.
The beach scene with them their wet their skin looks like they have been in the sun for a reasonable time but the Boquette pictures look like they haven't been outside at all.
Kris should be sunburnt almost blistered. But if its true that they were last seen exhausted sitting at the edge of town I doubt they were wanting to go for another hike up the trail especially in the dark.
If they had gone up the trail and saw how hard it was and were exhausted from it I doubt they would go for a hike in the dark up it again. I can imagine they were catching their breath to go back to their room to go bed after their long day when they were intercepted by someone and coerced to go somewhere else even though they wanted to back to their room.
I doubt 2 smart woman want to go on a midnight hike on a dangerous trail for sightseeing if they were dehydrated and exhausted. Or were up there and got caught by the dusk. I think they came back and were resting somewhere and got interrupted.
They could have even been in their room resting when someone came to visit them and got coerced. I doubt 2 smart women are wandering on a dangerous trail in the dark. They knew to get home at dusk. But I have a daughter with extremely fair white skin and if she is in the sun for 10 minutes she is red as a beet. In none of these pictures does Kris's skin color change like she has been in the sun all day. In a tank top and shorts she should have at least a slight burn but nothing.
Lisanne doesn't even have a slight darkening like she has been outside. I'm at the gym daily and if people overexert themselves they are sweating and red and look like they are going to faint. And what's strange is that neither girl is sweaty or looks like she has exerted herself. I have see people walk out of exercise classes that are super intense and they are red, sweaty and look like they are about to faint but the girls in all of the Boquette pictures look like they have just gone outside not been outside for a long time.
I workout for 10 minutes and I'm sweating and I'm inside a gym. But they are outside in tank tops and shorts in the blistering sun. They look like just stepped outside 5 minutes before not been outside for hours, days, weeks or months.
Its cave la pandurra .
Where supposedly Felicianos son found shoe and foot!
He also found a bag of chips Pringles and guava yogurt!
That wasn't Felicianos son that found the bag of chips Pringles and guava yogurt. That video was latter found to be faked.
Just a question (and I am not questioning your theory here), but if the folks that abducted these girls were sadistic enough to murder them AND dismember them, would they not have been equally sadistic by perhaps photographing both of the girls?, as they were obviously terrified.
I guess they wanted the police to think that they got lost and had an accident, same reason they left their belongings so the police doesn't investigate further
In photo #498 you can see something "weird"on kris left arm that goes behind Ls neck.
There ir a small thing on her upper arm.
Do you know if this has been discussed?
In my opinion, I think this is one of the spots they forgot to Photoshop out. If you zoom way in on that spot. To me, it looks like the sky with one small radon stick. And in photo#497, The camera angle is very strange. It looks like they where standing high above something like a water fall. And were trying to get something that was very low in the photo. Why would you take a photo of the ground and bushes at the top of a mountain?
@@BackpackerCoach I agree. But with having a really, questioning myself perspective, when i look at thoose pictures. But at first glance i got the feeling that something wrong with these photos mentioned. Then i started to zoom in photoshop. There looks also like cuty paste where the "sky" at the arm are. It could be a waterbottle but is it even possible to bend your arm in that way behind Lisannes back. I want to test that. Yes 497 looks weird.
Stitching shows the photos were taken pointing mostly upwards, towards the sky, from a ravine, vertical walls on both sides ; the branch with the red things is indeed hanging
Bro great job! I've been following this case and spent many hours deciphering evidence and pictures. Subscribed. We need to find out where this cave is.
There is not cave.
He's misinterpreting what happens when you look at a 180° image on a flat screen. The reason the rock with the branch seems upside down is because it is at the opposite of the other large rock formation, NOT ABOVE IT!
By the way he's not the first one to even align these pictures together : www.reddit.com/r/KremersFroon/comments/m0mpym/360_degrees_interactive_view_night_pictures/
Check out "Dark Rose " she is on TH-cam, she said that the girls found a cave, and were exploring it when 2 men appeared from further in the cave. Maybe Kris and Lisanne stumbled upon a drug factory. She also said that the girls were fed raw fish and water to cleanse them because they were going to be sacrificed, that's the bit I don't understand. And I think she mentioned human organ trafficking, but don't quote me on that, because ive seen so many videos on this sad case, and ive read many theories about what happened to them.
I have seen it.
Great Video! The image with the red plastic bag tied to the branch, shouldn't they been falling the opposite way because of gravity?
Those pictures now make sense.
Thats impressive work!
I've never been convinced that one of the girls took those night pictures. I first thought, 'bear?, raccoon?, do they have monkeys there?'...I wonder if that camera could've been butt-dialing, or something (not intentional).
Okay...but is the cave on the Pianista trail? Or somewhere beyond the monkey bridge? Or another trail altogether?
There is way more pictures than this. If you look for them they're easy to get. Where do they go? Juan has access to just about every picture released.
Off of Juan's google album.
@@BackpackerCoach Yes, he has ones that look like the chin , blurry, of one of the girls was caught in a few of the photos and more. He also has a video of night pictures.
Yesss I always wondered how there rain drops coming down but dry rock and hair! It would make sense it was in a cave! Good work
I am so sick of all the conspiracy theories out there. You have solved the puzzle, it makes sense. Thank you. Maybe the remaining missing photo's were kept from the public due to Disturbing content. Omg what those girl's went through. A parent's nightmare. "In the Loving arm's of the Angel's Kris and Lisanne" PLEASE At this age you feel invincible and Adventurous. DON'T.. There are Human's out there that are just Evil Personified, they Don't have a Soul. Trust No One. I can count on one hand ONLY the people in my life I trust 100%. Kindest thoughts to you and your family from Australia. Great Video.
What a horrible way to live life.
Of the millions upon millions of adventures that happen annually, you can probably count on one hand the amount that result in a death/murder. Media feeds off of people's despair, fear and hate, for clicks, for revenue.
Marilyn Manson said it perfectly when interviewed in the movie Bowling for Columbine: "... consumption through fear."
Your neighbour could be a terrorist! Click this link to find out why
How many pedophiles are in your area? Tune-in to learn the results that may shock you
Now go buy a gun to protect yourself.
What remaining photos? All the photos were released weren't they?
@@steve-ww6ut whoa, i havent heard that! What photos havent been released, like what do they show??
@@steve-ww6ut oh, its just crazy, ive been on a pretty deep rabbit hole regarding this case, and I never saw anywhere that there was pictures that werent released, i thought all the pictures were leaked by that Juan guy.
@@steve-ww6ut Hmm, you may be right, a criminal 3rd party would explain alot of the weird things in this case!
Meant to ask did you check the time stamps on the photos to see if they were taken one right after the other after you stitched the photos together ? To verify they were taken within seconds of each other . The original photos all have an exact time stamp on them .
All the night photos were taken over a 3 hour period I believe.
I do appreciate your hard work on making these videos... however the conclusion at the time stamp 1:35 that someone would need to turn their entire hand around to take a circular picture of the sky seems a bit odd to me... why couldn't they just turn the camera around while keeping their hand the same way, i.e. using two hands to rotate the camera or if they where standing and looking up taking the picture they could have not moved their hands or the camera and instead walked in a circle (like spinning) while taking the pic and shooting up wards. All three are plausible and I am sure there are more ways different angles could be taken while shooting an image. Just thought that was an odd assumption that only the hand could move.
the idea of them being in a cave makes it all so much more frightening 😰
Excellent. I appreciate the time and effort you put into this. I was wondering. Do you find photo 505 strange. It’s looks like an out of focus human mouth that’s open....I see what I believe is the upper row of teeth of a human being....I can actually see the separation of the teeth. What do you think is going on in photo 505? When I first saw it didn’t look like much but as I looked a bit more, it looks like the open mouth of a human being who is either screaming or already dead. I don’t mean to be so morbid but this can be solved or at least figured out if the time and effort is put in. If nothing else, the parents could have some straight answers about what happened to their daughter’s and not the BS story they were given by Panamanian authorities. So little of their remains were found, yet no apex four-legged animal predators in the area, such as Jaguars or Grizzly Bears or the type of four legged animal that could easily take out two people with no problem rather quickly....but even a Grizzly Bear leaves most of the bones in one area....the area where they killed and devoured their prey.
I want to see what you mean but confused isn’t 505 the one with kris standing far away bending over
ok interestic theory, but where is this cave? I wondering if nobody has been spotted this cave all these years...
There is not cave.
He's misinterpreting what happens when you look at a 180° image on a flat screen. The reason the rock with the branch seems upside down is because it is at the opposite of the other large rock formation, NOT ABOVE IT!
By the way he's not the first one to even align these pictures together : www.reddit.com/r/KremersFroon/comments/m0mpym/360_degrees_interactive_view_night_pictures/
How would you explain the dry rock. It may not be a cave. but a overhang.
@@BackpackerCoach th-cam.com/video/ILqZnlBQcbc/w-d-xo.html&lc=UgyLisUrzqQIJBuwQgB4AaABAg.9LroolfNQC-9M4AG2lU7I4
please check the picutre from 0:06 second what do you think about that?
@@BackpackerCoach or it could be a cave
I know this is actually a pretty far reach but idk it's like pieces of a puzzle falling into place. Check out this vid, th-cam.com/video/tv3amtlx6bM/w-d-xo.html the woman says she's a keen eye for photography and us very good. I believe her
Excellent work, mate. What program did you use to stitch the photos together?
Photoshop
This is mind-blowing! I wonder if they searched all the caves in the area?! If not they should definitely do that because they may find evidence( remains etc). And most importantly, why were they taking pictures of the opening of the cave as looking to see what’s outside. Very strange case
They were stuck at the bottom of a hole or crevasse looking up. They must have heard noises from above and used the camera flash to get attention.
@Achmad Wahyu Hidayat it’s not, it’s a spot in Caldera. Not on the trail at all. But the pianista trail past the mirador is definitely creepy. Romain C did a day hike and posted it on his channel. Really nasty-looking place tbh.
But what if they were just lost and or injured and sheltering in a cave, backpack is with them. Kris passed away. Lisanne makes one last attempt to escape the jungle, falls and perished or starves…?
Looks good, but Why would you put a sos sign made out of paper inside a cave where it won't be seen from above ?
I forgot to mention this... There was no water droplets on the camera lens in any of the photos.
man its like a whole puzzle piece it`s just a confuzing case what ever happened to these girls is just verry tragic
It looks like theyre looking up from a ravene. The photos are looking up and you see rock walls and stars. Also the trees above.
Do you think the red papers and rope were them trying to get out?
That makes perfect sense! You really need to contact the parents of Kremers and Froon. Perhaps justice can eventually be dished out to these scumbag murders!
Nice work! So the question remains, what do these photos tell us?
Could it be possible that these last 90 pictures were taken from inside a huge well, or a diagonal downhill cave that was to slippery to climb out from? They could have just accidentally fallen in, or worse; 'being kept hostage inside'. Because to me it looks like that the rain is constantly pouring down straight to the location of the lens from the camera. And could it be that Kris was already murdered, and Lisanne was still barely alive? With her last breath she found the energy and a way to grap the camera without being noticed and make some last final pictures were the horror took place? .....
So many questions.....
Sloan Bella recently did a video which supports this theory you've presented
Neat job stitching the photos together. Just like any panorama the view will be curved and the photo panorama you did wasn't and I have no idea how you do that to a photo montage, maybe you could have a go at it. The one thing that I find hard to swallow is that if they were killed, why did the killers let them keep the camera and phones? Also why did the girls remove their bras and put them in the backpack? It is most certain that the Panamanian authorities have told a pack of lies about what they have found and seem to be protecting the people (like Feliciano et al) who mysteriously happened to find Kris's shorts, the human remains and the backpack all very oddly clean and dry... I'm sure someone had been holding onto that, possibly the authorities which would have given them more than enough time to decide which photos to release and possibly which to let someone "alter" then release.
It is more likely they had some type of an accident seeing as they were very ill-prepared to go hiking in a jungle environment wearing only shorts and tank-tops, very little decent food, no safety items or tent/bivi and no torches or GPS device (could have used one of the phones for that)... their phones were in all probability not fully charged when they left to go on the hike as they were only apparently switched on to check for signal and switched off again. Occam's razor probably applies in this case and tragic accident was the cause but people need to keep looking at the possibilities that it was foul play and the perpetrators need finding and justice needs to be metered out.
Keep up the good work.
Great work! Absolutely agree!
At 12:06 you say, it's a cave!
Then I have to ask in WHICH ANGLE does that cave open?
Outside the "cave" we see what the pics show: rock,low plants, bushes, small trees, truncs+branches+leaves of big trees,sky.
IN NATURE, these things have their position: sky is always topmost, rocks are at the bottom!
These pics are taken TOWARDS THE SKY. If it is inside a cave, that cave must have an opening towards the sky.
My conclusion is, that it must be in a ravine with kind of ledge offering protection from rain (dry hair of Kris).
Very Interesting.
this is amazing you should share it with their family . it would be good to take a closer look of a hair photo . . .
I’m very sorry but their family doesn’t need to know how they met with foul play especially being dismembered.
I don't see it. You're not going to get plants like that in a cave
I got the orientation wrong. th-cam.com/video/uCkS9SSf9Ro/w-d-xo.html
No cave!!! Who ever took the photos were under a overhang.
@@BackpackerCoach makes more sense
Great work!
Interesting cave theory. It would make sense when considering the dry clean looking pic of the girls hair 👍... the bleached bones 🦴 is odd though.
You're absolutely on the right track here! Stitching together the night photos is the key to finding the last location of the girls! I dont know why this hasn't been done by authorities. However I believe the images depict the girls being in a deep vertical hole or crevasse (instead of a cave) with smooth rocks making up the steep walls. The full shape of the many leaves indicate they were being viewed from the bottom up. One of the girls must have fallen down this hole on the first day of the hike, and got her foot stuck between boulders at the bottom. The fact that they still had access to their phones and camera tend to negate foul play.
If they got stuck the first day Don't you think they would have taken photos the first night? The night photos were taken either 8 days or 11 days later.
I don't believe the girls even took the night photos.
@@BackpackerCoach in the 8 day the helicopter was flying at night or at least for few hours at night .i think it was that night
@@BackpackerCoach Hi ,do you know where is this picture KK standing with a native totem? min 2:22 thanks!
th-cam.com/video/bntgsQzJGi8/w-d-xo.html
@@septimiufly5134 It's a commun error. It's wasn't that night, but the night on the 8 to 9 April.
Sorry for my english.
This is just the most puzzling case ever. Seems like their is evidence for both theories: 1) that they just had an accident and succumbed to their injuries or the natural elements or 2) that a 3rd party was involved with the girls deaths
There are photos either deleted from the camera or authorities have not made all photos available...same for any recorded messages or texts
Theres no way those couldnt be bothered to leave some messages or photos of their physical condition
Somebody deleted messages,photos etc and i dont think it was the girls
So I noticed something nobody is talking about. On the video where the parents are walking the trail. One guide is by the other man. In spanish he says Hey don't say anything to them about....... Look it up.
Yes, I have heard about that. At some point I would like to do a video on it.
What is the explanation for the time stamp on the photo being 2013?
I wonder about this too. Why would you set the correct month day and time but when in comes to the year, it’s just too much to bother? Quite odd.
Hi mate, you should consider working in police investigation, the case should be re opened ....
Maybe they ran out of food. ? Low blood sugar can cause confusion and more.
Got lost, injured. ?
But then again , they would have naturally taken photos.
Where were the bodies located? Near each other?
Interesting videos 👍
Great insight..👍
This is it! A cave. All makes sense here. Good work. Is there a possibility that it is a hole in which they fell? Would explain the fractures. And after a massive rain the bodies were washed out of it...
You've done an excellent job locking all these photos together using their common features: if one is rotated, they all must rotate. You make a strong case here for the vertical/overhead orientation of the bag rock with the bags and stick hanging down from the top as well as the paper/Pringles can bottom lying horizontally, but could the bag rock in fact be roughly horizontal with the bags and stick laying on top? Since your panorama establishes a continuous path from the rock face on the lower left all the way to the bag rock, the only way for the bags and stick to be lying on top of the rock would be for the panorama to span nearly 180 degrees. I do not think this is the case.
Look at the photo which contains both the Y-branch and the pointed, 90 degree rock feature, and all the raindrops. It's unlikely that this single photo spans such a wide field of view, and if it did, we'd need to explain the following. Rain drops are not perfect spheres and they are not perfect tear drops...they are somewhere in between. They are slightly elongated spheres by air resistance...elongated in the direction of travel. Therefore we might be able to establish the vertical direction by carefully analyzing the shapes of all the drops in the Y-branch-90-rock photo, then finding their mean direction. Just eye-balling the drops might even hint at the vertical. Now if the single Y-branch-90-rock photo really did span such a wide field of view as to put the bags and stick on top of the rock, ~180 degrees from the rock face at lower left, then we might expect the Y-branch-90-rock photo to show two different verticals: raindrops on the left side of the photo would give one vertical direction and raindrops on the right would give another vertical. Also, note that the rock face in the Y-branch-90-rock photo is half-covered in mossy plants and half-bare rock. If the that photo had such a wide field of view as to put that rock face roughly horizontal and fully exposed to sunlight, then why the half-n-half?
I also note that the shadow of the bag-stick is offset from the bag-stick more than one might expect, especially for parts of the stick relatively far from the rock, given the tiny parallax introduced by the distance from the flash bulb to the camera lens. Besides that, the shadow is on the left side of the stick. The flash bulb should create a shadow on the right side of the stick, shouldn't it? (Though the tiny parallax may mean that the shadow is directly behind the stick, invisible from the lens.) I submit that the shadow we see is caused by reflected light off either the rock face on the lower left of the panorama or an unseen rock face above and to the left of the bags-stick photo. This would support the cave/overhang hypothesis. Thank you for all the work you are doing here!
Interesting points. I see what you mean about the photo that shows the triangular rock and Y-shaped tree (photo 599 I think) seeming to capture what would seem to be a wider field of view. Does 599 show the Y-shaped tree though? isn't it just off to the left of this particular frame? Looking at the montage five overlapping photos create a panorama that extends from left to right and I think that with a wide angle lens on a compact camera like the Canon this is quite possible. Perhaps it indicates that the angle-topped rocks beyond the branch boulder rise higher towards the Y-shaped tree than it seems?
The point you make about the shadows of the branch on the rock being on the left rather than the right is something that also confused me for a time but there's a straightforward answer - it shows this photo was taken portrait format rather than landscape format. When the camera is turned to be used portrait format the flash is not only now slightly above the camera lens but is also slightly on the right side now, so shadows are cast to the left of the object rather than the right as with portrait format.
@@mutinyonthekitkat Also interesting points. It never occurred to me that the camera could be in portrait orientation. I certainly don't know enough about photography to speak to the angular extent of the montage.
well they are not Holladay! snaps are they, one may of been dead the other with the camera. trying to get attention. definitely not standing up with the camera on a tripod, WHAT IS THE CONCLUSHION HEAR ok they are in a cave.
The SOS sign is pretty useless inside a cave and these bad guys are very busy murderers absailing down to a cave taking the night photos for three hours straight in the early hours of the morning and calling emergency services everyday. Even murderers have jobs and families lol there's no way.
This is a sad case of two over confident girls getting lost.
The mother of Osman has spilled a lot of things. So did his ex girlfriend. They know everything, if a western country gives them protection they will spill everything. The guys interrupted the funeral of Usman who did two days later. The reason for photoshop is so that Panama can keep luring dumb tourists in to their country, make money and even use these girls look at the american and german girl both raped, one survived because of her strength and the other died like these girls. Women are not safe thanks to these filthy animalistic men.
This is great !!!!
Are some of the photos over looking a cliff edge? With sky? And stars? These are the first photos I found online.
Photos are looking up at the sky and a overhang that was just above and behind who ever took the photos. The white dots are rain. I also suggest you watch this vid th-cam.com/video/mqNbEhusKVI/w-d-xo.html
@@BackpackerCoach will do 👍👍👍
Good job!
There may be notes from the girls inside the cave
th-cam.com/video/tv3amtlx6bM/w-d-xo.html
Its the cave in the lost waterfalls trail which if you keep going from the pianista trail you can get to the lost waterfalls. I also saw a video of a tourist going in the cave, & there's like white paper in the back I was like that's the cave
who took the photos then?
So how did their branch and red plastic marker stick to the side of the cave? That makes no sense.
th-cam.com/video/uCkS9SSf9Ro/w-d-xo.html
If the nighttime photos were them being held captive, why did their captors allow them to keep their camera? I think the reason the nighttime photos are confusing, upside down, weirdly angled and repeated is because they were taken by the killers to convey "in the jungle", but make it disorientating and generic so no one could pinpoint the location.
These photos weren't taken on purpose! Taken by accident, during the scuffle ...💔... the investigators need to go back and locate the cave. Or not!
You can lead the investigation 👍👍
Why did they not write an SMS to their parents?
They had no phone reception. Their phones logged multiple failed calls to emergency services while they were missing. No signal in the jungle.
@@emmahodgson9244 they did not attempt to write sms. And the likelihood of getting an SMS through is much higher.
Could have easily written in the notes app even. There’s a ton of things they could have done with the phones besides make calls.
@@The_10th_Man Yes and they could have played games. But only by communicating, they could save their lives.
@@emmahodgson9244 they could have still written notes in their phones documenting what was happening. Zero need for a connection, though they would have kept trying for one.
This is not a cave: It would make sense IF there wasn't the river visible on the pic with the branch and the red plastic bags. You can clearly see the shimmering of the water. How do you explain that?
Can’t there be a cave near a river or stream?
It also could be some sort of overhang.
Allright... nice trollvideo.
so they kiddnaped them then they threw them into a cave. came down with ropes to take the backpack or they came down took the pictures and took pictures of kris hair and lisanne cheek to plant the evidence. the broken map could mean that the cave is not on the map? or it means that the map is useless and only the "guides" can take you to the trails. or that the map (guides) are broken. and the plastic bag from the guesthouse were involve being them who called the taxi!!? so who called the taxi? the taxi dropped them on an early trail
Someone already did this work 4 or 5 months ago. All these pictures where taken from the same spot just repositioning the camera in different angles.
Yes. You're talking about Chris and his site Imperfect Plan. You know Chris did an amazing job with the pictures and showing relative position of those pictures the conclusion was never made that this was a cave. Up until this point it was always believed that they were on flat rock.
No one has actually visually put all the photos together. IE the big flat rock with the stick and red plastic. No one could figure out were that photo went till now. It's not it mite go there. It definitely goes there, everything matches perfectly.
@@BackpackerCoach Erm... I did... And your interpretation is erroneous. There is no cave. You are just misinterpreting a 180° picture seen on a flat screen :
www.reddit.com/r/KremersFroon/comments/m0mpym/360_degrees_interactive_view_night_pictures/
@@BackpackerCoach Just to explain myself more clearly. If someone takes multiple pictures at multiple angles from the same point, looking all around them, they will capture a 180° view of their surrounding. If you place that view on a flat surface, like your computer screen, you will end up with elements being at opposite sides appearing as if they are upside down compared to eachother. The branch rock (550) is not above the rock formation (542), it is on the OPPOSITE SIDE of it. It's actually lower, and clearly at ground level. I really invite you to take a look at my 360° render of the full composite, and you will see what I mean by that.
As for claiming you are the first one doing something, maybe you should be a little more careful in the future when posting about a case thousands of people are working on all over the world at the same time. I did a full composite including picture 542 almost two months ago and posted it online. I more recently posted the 360° interactive version. I did not see anyone do it before but even then I was careful not to claim I was the first. BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT.
@@MannyLectro I understand what you are trying to say. I just disagree. The stitch that i put together in only 3 photos wide. You would need a minimum of at least 6 or more photos to make 180° view.
Thank you exceptional work.
I have been strong into the death by misadventure theory. You at least have my interest peaked. Binging all
Your vids…
Dude I wish you have all the pictures
I wish I just had the full size images.
Shhhit, I think you just might have giving this topic another leed
Very impressed
OMG! Your video reminded me this story about a medium having a vision the same day the girls disappeared. He called the authorities saying he saw (in his mind) two girls running from something and eventually falling from a high ground into a cave. I consider myself skeptical of this medium thing but perhaps a vision is something that could happen. So maybe this was an accident after all and the killer could be the nature itself. It can be a place so difficult to find that the bones later found were removed by animals like vultures, that's why we have so little amount of them, maybe the rest of their bones could still be in this cave. Apparently this medium man said it is a very hard point to find, it is like a hollow area in the junction of two mountains.
Sloan Bella recently did a video and she said she could see the girls being chased and falling into a well-like hole. Very similar and the most possible explanation I think
@@Lauren-se2ls Very interesting, indeed what she says is a real possibility. Thanks for the info!
At 16:17 you ask what is between SOS and big boulder with red plastics?
Answer: NOTHING is in between, because these 2 pics can be CONNECTED like all the others. If you do so the whole circle will close without gaps.
How to?
Take pic 576 (sos) and connect it to pic 594 by comparing structure of rock and the pyramid-like rocks seen in the background.
Now as position of sos pic is clear, the rock in the right lower corner of sos pic MUST connect to 599 and close the circle! There is simply no other possible way to connect.
By closing the circle you will see that last pic in circle will not properly overlap with the neighbouring pic. I think this is caused by the technique of photographing with a circular lens.
Another problem in connecting ALL pics in one single collage:
Pic 599 and 550 are taken into the same direction, but 599 doesnt show the boulder with red plastics. That's why I think (assuming NO ZOOM has been used) that 599 has been taken WHILE STANDING on that boulder of pic 550.
Please feedback what you think...
I have an update on the night photos. See link.
th-cam.com/video/mqNbEhusKVI/w-d-xo.html
I do think that the night photos where all take in the same spot. but some were taken laying down and some taken sitting up.
As for connecting the SOS photo and the photo above it. I can explain apart of it. But something still doesn't seem right to me. It mostly has to do with the SOS is very close to the camera and the rest of the photos are at a more normal distance away from the camera. To connect these two photos there will be a lot of distortion. As for the SOS and the big rock with the stick. The SOS is very close to the camera. But the big rock is probably about 3 to 6 feet away maybe more.
Fab work
How did the red markers get on the ceiling?
It's not the ceiling it's a wall/overhang. The stick could either be just hanging down or they tied it or got the stick stuck on something.
It's not on any wall or ceiling. The branch rock (picture 550) is at ground level and oriented the way you would expect it to be. This analysis fails to take into account the fact that the composite of all pictures together forms a 180° view with the ground forming a circle around the sky.
@@MannyLectro I don't think people realize how many photos it would take to make a 180° view. I have be stitching photos together for years now. It just doesn't work like that.
And I've been working with 180/360 degrees content for 8 years now. It's my job.
Do you réalise that with a camera angle of 25mm you only need a few pictures to capture one line from left to right on a 180?
@@BackpackerCoach maybe 4?
I think it was an accident. Why should the murder take picture's? That makes no sense. There hapend to much there for killing somebody. One of them fall and the other want leave her alone. A lot of people write in the comments on Google maps, that you can get lost quickly. That's the point.
But why they made the SOS with the mirror in the cave? This makes no sense.