I'm not sure, but I think the lifesteal proc you got early was from a melee hit instead of the turret. Which might make a bit more sense than somehow a turret stealing life for you.
I think what's smart about adding difficulty via new enemies (and enemies appearing earlier) is that they increase difficulty by increasing the complexity of what you have to play around at any give moment, instead of by just making it harder to get the items and stats you need (which is what less money modes equate to). In general I think for players it is always going to feel better to increase difficulty by adding to the game, rather than by taking power and tools away from the player.
the attack speed is capped at the %70 dodge, from what I saw I had 91/70 dodge and only 150 attack speed but i am not sure how that would be on the dodge character.
@@konannrevell6820 the dodge character does have that upper limit of 70 raised to 90 as well. Check out Dex's video on the dodge character. In that video, his attack speed before buying retro shirt was 90ish, then immediately jumped to 289 after with dodge at 95/90.
Hey reto love the brotato content and honestly don’t care what danger level you play on as long as your having fun it’s a lot more entertaining to watch you when your enjoying the game
In terms of your statement about enemies doing more damage versus having more health: I think more health is generally a more elegant solution. The damage output in Brotato specifically is already pretty high to the point where having 20 armor and 70 HP can still be a loss if your attack speed is too low, but the enemy health generally doesn't really matter all too much. I mean, how many runs do you have where your damage is basically set by wave 10? Like you'll be one shotting pretty much everything from that point onward, so I'd honestly think it would make more sense to increase the enemy health in higher Danger levels rather than their damage. Needing to stack more damage stats in order to continue one-shotting enemies will naturally cause your other stats to be lacking anyway. Is it fun to just tune up enemy numbers? Not necessarily, but I do think that it's better to tune up their health rather than their damage. Also not a fan of the increased inflation and reduced resource drops. I don't think the difficulty of the run should come from a lack of resources. I think it's more fun to continually build a stronger and stronger character than it is to be forced to build weaker characters for artificial difficulty. I really think if I were going to design a fun Danger system for this game, I would look towards the "New enemies spawn" for a guideline. For higher danger levels, maybe increase the health of some enemies to make a higher damage requirement. Maybe some Danger levels can, in some way, adjust the amount of resource that drop by means of changing the enemies in the wave. Maybe instead of a wave full of 50 billion enemies with 1 health each, you spawn in a bunch of tanky enemies. That way you can still build around the situation in advance instead of simply, "Well, all the enemies just don't drop as much money." Something like that could spice up your runs. That way you aren't just dealing with the same exact 20 waves across every difficulty. Even with the new enemies, the idea behind the waves themselves does not change meaning that you don't REALLY need to vary your gameplan up at all.
The thing about lack of resources is that its an rng game which makes it worse. If you have less resources but can plan a way to make it work its one thing, if you can't plan and have less resources your only option is to pray.
Engineer is my fav character atm, And I do believe that engineering does not get effected by %dmg, not sure if that intended or not but I had a run with 100+ engineering and about -200% dmg and i was still getting 150+ hit from turrets.
Brawler would be the best to unlock the 60% dodge stat one, I would HONESTLY love to see you attempt to do either the 3000 Material Run or +200 Harvesting Stat run.
so last nigth i manage to unlock the character u get for getting 50 movement speed. and is basically using the idea retromation have in the old brotato videos when trying to make a "flash" character. it have increase move speed and gain atack damage based on is movespeed, but lose all armor if stay still
If ya dev is watching, here are some item suggestions for engineering: orbital strike, drones, sticky bombs, nanobots, solar cells (maybe a buff to turret fire rate), 5g tower (local stat buff), vantablack (not sure what the effect would be but it’s cool).
Rocket turret damage maths from a bored Chameon. 113 = 45*1.75+X 45*1.75=78.75 113=78.75+X If 78.75 rounds up, 113-79=X If 78.75 rounds down, 113-78=X Rocket turrets either do base damage of 34 or 35. Seems more like to me to be the 'round' number of 35. Ergo, my guess would be their base damage is 35 and it rounded.
I feel like that way to handle danger level might be to make it modular, to pick modifiers. If you could combine new enemies, stronger enemies and 2 bosses, that'd be 3 modifiers hence danger lvl 3. Or maybe 4, because bosses would count as 2 Kinda like custom shards in revita, but I see it in this game more as a tree with "this is a must, then you get two choices (can pick both), then they open up new choices and so on" But yeah, economical ones are unfun
My goal is to beat Danger 5 with Speedy now. If I'm going to get hit hard, just don't get hit lol. I feel that as I get the hang of the game it's starting to feel more fair and I guess that's rougeslikes for you.
I play engineer a lot and i will say incendiary turrets are awesome in mid game, of course bad early game, and are good late game just outshined by the higher levels.
I am pretty sure you can do most if not all unlocks with saver if you go 6 normal weapons, save all your money till round 19 and just start buying stuff then. If you even get another piggy bank in the middle then it gets even more stupid
Less economy for difficulty in this kind of games is always pretty unfun, because it just limits you to have fun builds, which is the whole point of the game Could rather give you more enemy spawns, which gives more risk and also more rewards
Unfortunately I don't think any game creator (video game or otherwise) has designed a way to increase difficulty without reducing build diversity in a setting where build powers vary. Difficulty inherently pushes towards optimization and sharpens differences between power levels by default
Yup, and that is why I usually prefer games with ~2 difficulties "Casual" and "Standard". I'd rather have a fine tuned repayable mode than scaling difficulties any day.
Engineer needs some type of health nerf for balance. Like, all HP bonuses are reduced by half or you start with negative speed. This character should be very vulnerable.
Knight is the only fun character I've played on Danger level 5. But its super unfun otherwise imo. Edit: Imagine if danger 5 had a round map instead of square?
Saver to 3000 materials held seems like an easy path. Getting -5% hp regen at the side isn't that hard too (how do you not have it yet? It almost feels like the game bugged out and didn't give you the unlock) Oh shit it's not -50 it's +60, holy shit that's hard. 200 harvesting feels a little insane, but like, Old+danger 1 and focusing on harvesting makes it seem pretty possible by wave 20
Stronger enemies definitely makes them have both more health and do more damage, you killed a big boy at wave 10 with 80 damage which you wouldn't be able to do at their introductory wave (wave 4, 5 or 6?) at danger 3. Also you took 4 damage from a big boy with only 2 armor, which would NEVER happen at danger 3. Fuck, you could have 10 armor and still take more damage at the same wave.
I'm not sure, but I think the lifesteal proc you got early was from a melee hit instead of the turret. Which might make a bit more sense than somehow a turret stealing life for you.
Yeah, I was thinking that too.
I think what's smart about adding difficulty via new enemies (and enemies appearing earlier) is that they increase difficulty by increasing the complexity of what you have to play around at any give moment, instead of by just making it harder to get the items and stats you need (which is what less money modes equate to). In general I think for players it is always going to feel better to increase difficulty by adding to the game, rather than by taking power and tools away from the player.
I'd love to see a Engineer run using the Brotato with all the arms. See how many turrets and landmines you can get.
Id really want to see the dodge character unlocked just so we could potentially see a run of the dodge character wielding the reto hoodie
the attack speed is capped at the %70 dodge, from what I saw I had 91/70 dodge and only 150 attack speed but i am not sure how that would be on the dodge character.
@@konannrevell6820 the dodge character does have that upper limit of 70 raised to 90 as well. Check out Dex's video on the dodge character. In that video, his attack speed before buying retro shirt was 90ish, then immediately jumped to 289 after with dodge at 95/90.
Hey reto love the brotato content and honestly don’t care what danger level you play on as long as your having fun it’s a lot more entertaining to watch you when your enjoying the game
Oh it was GREAT to see you end up with six red weapons. :D
You could try using the accessibility options in the main menu to scale up the enemies yourself to fit your preferences.
I hope retromation doesnt get sick of brotato, cause i love watching him play it, but i would never want him to play something he does not want to
In terms of your statement about enemies doing more damage versus having more health:
I think more health is generally a more elegant solution. The damage output in Brotato specifically is already pretty high to the point where having 20 armor and 70 HP can still be a loss if your attack speed is too low, but the enemy health generally doesn't really matter all too much.
I mean, how many runs do you have where your damage is basically set by wave 10? Like you'll be one shotting pretty much everything from that point onward, so I'd honestly think it would make more sense to increase the enemy health in higher Danger levels rather than their damage.
Needing to stack more damage stats in order to continue one-shotting enemies will naturally cause your other stats to be lacking anyway.
Is it fun to just tune up enemy numbers? Not necessarily, but I do think that it's better to tune up their health rather than their damage.
Also not a fan of the increased inflation and reduced resource drops. I don't think the difficulty of the run should come from a lack of resources.
I think it's more fun to continually build a stronger and stronger character than it is to be forced to build weaker characters for artificial difficulty.
I really think if I were going to design a fun Danger system for this game, I would look towards the "New enemies spawn" for a guideline.
For higher danger levels, maybe increase the health of some enemies to make a higher damage requirement. Maybe some Danger levels can, in some way, adjust the amount of resource that drop by means of changing the enemies in the wave. Maybe instead of a wave full of 50 billion enemies with 1 health each, you spawn in a bunch of tanky enemies. That way you can still build around the situation in advance instead of simply, "Well, all the enemies just don't drop as much money."
Something like that could spice up your runs. That way you aren't just dealing with the same exact 20 waves across every difficulty. Even with the new enemies, the idea behind the waves themselves does not change meaning that you don't REALLY need to vary your gameplan up at all.
The thing about lack of resources is that its an rng game which makes it worse. If you have less resources but can plan a way to make it work its one thing, if you can't plan and have less resources your only option is to pray.
I haven't watched this game in a while, and it all looks so different!
Engineer is my fav character atm, And I do believe that engineering does not get effected by %dmg, not sure if that intended or not but I had a run with 100+ engineering and about -200% dmg and i was still getting 150+ hit from turrets.
It doesn't get affected, interestingly though the sausage does work, so your turrets can inflict fire.
My fav also. I just wish they were affected by other stats but they would be OP but maybe if the stats were nerfed by 75% or something.
@@Tachinaori like even just 50% of attack speed would be so fun... but yea probably broken
I must say inform the creator that the engineer needs a drill wich makes like barbed wire to slow and deal tick damage to oncoming enemies 😉
Brawler would be the best to unlock the 60% dodge stat one, I would HONESTLY love to see you attempt to do either the 3000 Material Run or +200 Harvesting Stat run.
so last nigth i manage to unlock the character u get for getting 50 movement speed. and is basically using the idea retromation have in the old brotato videos when trying to make a "flash" character. it have increase move speed and gain atack damage based on is movespeed, but lose all armor if stay still
Was on a day off work today, got 13 wins/character item unlocks. There's a lot of fun items in the game now :)
One Arm with Shredder is pretty OP if you want to do that next Reto.
Loving the content. I bought the game because of your vids.
I think the difficulty should add rounds/ have harder enemies on lower rounds, basically just requiring you to scale faster
Thatd also make it so you can have rven more upgrades, making it more fun
If ya dev is watching, here are some item suggestions for engineering: orbital strike, drones, sticky bombs, nanobots, solar cells (maybe a buff to turret fire rate), 5g tower (local stat buff), vantablack (not sure what the effect would be but it’s cool).
Rocket turret damage maths from a bored Chameon.
113 = 45*1.75+X
45*1.75=78.75
113=78.75+X
If 78.75 rounds up, 113-79=X
If 78.75 rounds down, 113-78=X
Rocket turrets either do base damage of 34 or 35. Seems more like to me to be the 'round' number of 35. Ergo, my guess would be their base damage is 35 and it rounded.
I feel like that way to handle danger level might be to make it modular, to pick modifiers. If you could combine new enemies, stronger enemies and 2 bosses, that'd be 3 modifiers hence danger lvl 3. Or maybe 4, because bosses would count as 2
Kinda like custom shards in revita, but I see it in this game more as a tree with "this is a must, then you get two choices (can pick both), then they open up new choices and so on"
But yeah, economical ones are unfun
Great content per usual. What about a 50% Lightning Shiv / 50% Tazer Build?
Loving the series please keep it up
Engineering: the stand still kill build that does not require you to stand still
My goal is to beat Danger 5 with Speedy now. If I'm going to get hit hard, just don't get hit lol. I feel that as I get the hang of the game it's starting to feel more fair and I guess that's rougeslikes for you.
It'd be funny if the robot arm gave you an additional weapon slot
I play engineer a lot and i will say incendiary turrets are awesome in mid game, of course bad early game, and are good late game just outshined by the higher levels.
Long Live Brotato!
Once you feel up for a new engineering run, my favorite engineering build is with multitasker...12 turrets on the field is a lot of fun 😁
Its honestly very busted.
My hot take: Difficulty 2 adds a mid boss. Difficulty 4 increases your hitbox. Pretty universal challenges.
Would love to see a retromation red hoodie run!!!
wrench does not scale with meele, or does it?
I am pretty sure you can do most if not all unlocks with saver if you go 6 normal weapons, save all your money till round 19 and just start buying stuff then. If you even get another piggy bank in the middle then it gets even more stupid
Maybe instead of difficulty level it could be modifiers that that you pick and choose
the lower speed for more regen the lower your speed is op its a legendary item
Hear me out: One-armed ghost axe. Damage stacks are doubled on him. :D
how did you get your game to look high res?
mine looks like garbage and 480p/720p or smth and i cant get it to run sharp
If you go to do another multitasker run. Please just a suggestion. See how many turrets you can get going at once with it.
I tried Engineer lvl 5 ascension so many times.... always fails smh. Does anyone know if turrets can crit?
Less economy for difficulty in this kind of games is always pretty unfun, because it just limits you to have fun builds, which is the whole point of the game
Could rather give you more enemy spawns, which gives more risk and also more rewards
Unfortunately I don't think any game creator (video game or otherwise) has designed a way to increase difficulty without reducing build diversity in a setting where build powers vary. Difficulty inherently pushes towards optimization and sharpens differences between power levels by default
Yup, and that is why I usually prefer games with ~2 difficulties "Casual" and "Standard". I'd rather have a fine tuned repayable mode than scaling difficulties any day.
Saver with ghost flint
Went through and beat it on danger level 5, now I just play on danger 1 because I like to have the money
Reto, did you start to sing some Ween there for a moment at 19:40?
oh, of course!
@@Retromation atta kid
You can absolutely breeze through danger 5 with the saver, just take luck and wait for piggy bank
I thought the saver was nerfed and couldnt drop piggy bank now that you start with one.
@@snowdemon44483 ohh I didn't realize that was part of the nerf
Engineer needs some type of health nerf for balance. Like, all HP bonuses are reduced by half or you start with negative speed. This character should be very vulnerable.
Not going for the trees is giving me anxiety.
I mean, it is not particularly safe to do so on an engineer run
Niiiiice build
Maybe try to play noita? Such a fun roguelike
I've done a large series on noita already
@@Retromation wow really? Thanks i gotta check it out :D
Knight is the only fun character I've played on Danger level 5. But its super unfun otherwise imo.
Edit: Imagine if danger 5 had a round map instead of square?
It looks like tf2 engineer like wrenchs and turrets
Saver to 3000 materials held seems like an easy path.
Getting -5% hp regen at the side isn't that hard too (how do you not have it yet? It almost feels like the game bugged out and didn't give you the unlock)
Oh shit it's not -50 it's +60, holy shit that's hard.
200 harvesting feels a little insane, but like, Old+danger 1 and focusing on harvesting makes it seem pretty possible by wave 20
soldier engineering build when?
MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE 🙂🤠☺️❤️
Stronger enemies definitely makes them have both more health and do more damage, you killed a big boy at wave 10 with 80 damage which you wouldn't be able to do at their introductory wave (wave 4, 5 or 6?) at danger 3. Also you took 4 damage from a big boy with only 2 armor, which would NEVER happen at danger 3. Fuck, you could have 10 armor and still take more damage at the same wave.
i think they should add multiplayer to make it even better, i would love to play 2 or 4 or 8 players gamemode, and just adjust the enemies that way
Retromation innately dodges dodge which is why dodge turns into something else completely different from dodge? Ok, I get it now.
Mammoth in my opinion should be like +5 max life and +3 armor, -8% speed and -4% ish attack speed. Maybe throw in some life regen?
hi :)
Hello
Dodge!
Engineer danger 5 i die wave 19 sometime close turret spawn is bad
I think the fire turrets need a rework. I don't know what needs to be done but I feel they are a downgrade.
22:50
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammoth
Thank me later