Other Minor Things you guys may want me to address, that I just didn’t due to the video length going a little long, and they were sort of awkward, to put in if I’m being honest Cee Stating V1 Ayy is on Par With Minato?! When Cee states this, he states specifically that when Raikage gets amped up, his reaction speed and nerve transmission is on par with even Konoha’s Yellow Flash, referring to Jonin Minato (who fought in the third Great War). Now there are a few things to address here, firstly, is that Cee has not a clue Jonin Minato’s reaction speed. We know this as his age wouldn’t line up to be placed and war and he directly states, that the Fourth Great Ninja war is the first war he’s ever been in (ch. 515). I also addressed that Jonin Minato and Hokage Minato differ in strength, whether you take the synopsis statement, the fourth databook’s wording or the second databook implying Minato kept using his command ability even once Hokage. So at best, being generous to Cee and the Raikage, this could fit with the narrative that the Raikage Ayy, at peak speed, has trained enough to be on the level of Jonin Minato, to which Naruto needs to surpass and then obviously surpass Hokage Minato with KCM2. Minato Cutting The Eight Tails, is good AP?! No, this feat is fairly exaggerated, when you account that he cut Bee’s partial tentacle you have to hold a level at which this tentacle in specific scales to, and a level of note at that. To which we don’t, you can see that Jonin Ayy was capable of cutting a similar tentacle during a Flashback. So no Minato slicing the tentacle is a super viable AP feat, you still say that him attempting to Slice Bee as he did, that’s something he does in character. Tobirama’s Water Lance?! The Guide: One Decade, One Hundred Ninja states that Tobirama possessed a water lance, not shown in his battle against Hiruzen, the Second Hokage. Surely there is nothing that can’t be cut. So this could imply that as of the publishing date of this guide, This Lance can cut through anything. This guide came out right after the Pain arc I believe, so yes this Lance could be a very viable wincon against Minato, if he manages to pull this off. Would Minato Go Sage Mode?! Probably not, Minato in life or death situations does not enter Sage Mode in character. This is likely due to his allocation for the Senjutsu probably not that good as we are unsure at what point Minato began charging up his Senjutsu. So it probably wouldn’t be a super viable option, but I suppose could still come out. Minato One Shot?! You can imply that Minato is of the caliber of Hashirama as, regardless of translation, they all imply of the time of origin the caliber of. Which has to also be in reference to those who battled or helped seal Kurama which is Hashirama, Mito and Madara so it’s that with Minato’s arsenal he could fight on that caliber, I do go much deeper into this in my Solo Minato video, which I recommend! Tobirama’s bullets are greater Madara?! Tobirama fires his water senbon, a jutsu where water is built up in the mouth to fire high speed bullets to then snipe at vital spots, when Tobirama uses this you could say this is one; in character for Tobirama to hold back to where he is appearing to lose, to then use these and catch the opponent offguard just when they are sure of victory. Madara reacts to these bullets, however does use a one arm susanoo guard, with the only similar thing ever used was in his Edo states where the Susanoo aura stopped projectiles. So you could say that These are so potent that Madara was uncomfortable at trying to tank them with his durability (as he was doing that reckless style way too much with the biju) therefore he opted for the Susanoo. Or option two is he wasn’t to just boast on Tobirama’s weakness more, showing his new superiority. Either way, Minato isn’t a tank, once again, so if he would pull this off or Maybe Minato put him close to death and Tobirama was able to catch him off guard, this is a viable wincon for Tobirama.
I don’t think cutting the tail is amazing AP, but it does show it wasn’t just a normal kunai strike like some people believe Just making contact with the tip, sliced it all the way through it, whereas sasuke had to saw all the way through
Minato vs tobirama in my opinion is a stalemate.Mimato is faster with the ftg but tpbirama is using the ftg as well. The ftg can catch others that are not using the ftg but can it can someone just as fast???? What you should have pointed out is who's jutsu is best for laying traps at each teleport point and who will outsmart the other. In conclusion a fight between minato and tobirama will end when one outsmart the other
@@vaughnjackson6297No because Minato activated sage mode in 1 second then punches a *HOLE* in Tobirama. Also Minato has the summoning justu so he can have his creatures take care of Tobirama & THEY ALL UTILIZE SENJUTSU
Loved your line about the Kinkaku squad being 20 "iruka to itachi lvl" characters Ppl constantly try to overhype or specify they were 20 s-rank Akatsuki lvl ninja or something and its just stated nowhere in any source. Its not an anti feat or a good feat. It's ambiguity makes it nearly irrelevant. The 1st encounter at least has a bit to go on.
Also worth noting that Minato mentions having to time up his teleportation against Obito, making it pretty clear he’s slowing down to match Obito’s speed
Exactly! I don’t get that misconception, his whole idea what Kamui was too dangerous to mess around with. He wasn’t aware of how it worked slough he immediately noted it was superior to his own and only knew one aspect, he can’t phase and attack at the same time. To which he then needed a timed MUTUAL strike, in which he did and then blitzed him!
@@someweirdguy He has to outspeed Obito just enough to be able to counter his Kamui, which means he’d have to slow down enough to make Obito think he’s gotten him to force him to materialize and then perception blitz him with FTG. This is why the chapter note says, “Minato wins the battle of speed!” He’s very clearly adjusting to Obito in order to set up the FTG level 2, and he can’t adjust his speed faster than it is, so he must be adjusting it in the other direction, aka slowing down.
@@sageofthickcalveshmmm this is an interesting tale!! I always figured he sped his ftg UP for the level 2 since it’s not really “instant” as shown in the war arc by saying “clones will reduce the speed of ftg” . I admit you might be right but I still think he could have been increasing his speed since the word “up” was used. But I’ll have to reread and think about it lol
Yeah you know I also shower seven statements stating it has movement, maybe think about those before you blatantly target the physics even after I regarded those as supplemental information. Don’t cherry pick
Why do anime youtubers love head cannon so much. Like how you gonna make up an argument like tobirama not faster than hashi or madara. The story litterally has the 1st 4 hokage race to the battle field using body flicker. Tobirama beat hashirama and went on to make a comment that minato's body flicker (raw movement speed) was better than his own. Clear evidence the fastest leaf shimobi prior to minato was tobirama.
@@palm_fangz1018 no he used body flicker, tobi commented as much. Further the leaf village not exactly close to the battlefield so a fr minato reaches long before then not the few seconds he does.
@@palm_fangz1018 they arent the same but body flicker is a generic jutsu to increase movement speed and can be used in battle example shisui. I actually like to think alot of the 1v1 fights we see are in a slow motion perspective cause they be using body flicker. Despite naruto and 4th raikage being the fastest ninja alive their 1v1 looked pretty normal.
Great vid. The work u put in here rly shines through. Amazing to me how a series that ended nearly 10 years ago still has a community which can produce excellent new creators like u.
So ofc i know this is about scaling but for me the appeal of Tobirama were never his compat abilities but rather how sturdy of a shinobi he was. Comming directly after the gods Hashirama and Madara wich in terms of strength he could never measure up to but still becomming a legend in his own right by using the talents he was given to their fullest, even creating three of the jutsu who were the most influential on the story. Sure we just don't see him as much cause he isn't that relevant to the story compared to characters like Madara or Minato but we also never see him faulter, always doing the best he can in every situation, instead of giving up when he is outmatched. To me he is like a historical person whom the average guy doesn't know much about but as soon as u begin to read into him it becomes apparent how much influence he rly had, like for example take roman Emperors everybody knows about Caesar and Augustus but only if u dig a little deeper u find guys like Vespasian and Hadrian who were every bit as important. Sorry, I just like the guy very much and even though I obviously love scaling am a little pissed about how many people pin the worth of a character only on their strength, not saying u did that but just in general.
You forgot to mention that Tobirama was focused on the TSO while Minato didn’t know it was on him yet. Madara states Tobirama watches from the shadows then makes his move. So once Minato was about to grab it it’s logical to assume that Tobirama had already started moving to grab the orb because he was watching from the outside. Also Minato didn’t even have to reach his hand out he could have just teleported it with chakra
You turn around still basically do the same thing and debunk his feats and say “not all that great” placing a tag at that speed unnoticed as far above anything minato shown 😅
It is always way more difficult to create a brand new jutsu. Tobirama created many very powerful jutsu during his lifetime so of course people are gonna tinker with it and improve on it. Take Minato. He created Rasengan and everybody since then has learned to push past the base form and give it a new twist. Edo Tensei is the perfect example of generation advancements. Tobimaru created it. Orochimaru improved on it. Kabuto then took it to an even higher level.
The issue isn't that Minato beats Tobirama. It's how overhyped each fanbase makes each. Mainly Alive Minato vs Alive Tobirama. Tobirama stans overrate his juubito feats. Minato fans overrate his comparisons to Hashirama, Minato's sage mode, Minato's speed, etc. It's clear they are in the same tier with while having slightly different techniques. You can expect in normal circumstances for Minato to have a slight edge. But nothing crazy where he's unbeatable for Tobirama. You could even argue Tobirama wins based on having better IQ and stamina.
@@Violate..The uchiha fans down play the fuck out of tobiramas feats bruh.Half the shit they discredit from him I can do the same for minatos FTG feats.
Don't forget the difference in arsenal. Kushina possibly taught Minato more and better Sealing Jutsu, but with how many Tobirama invented, he show know more in any other category. And he MIGHT even know more Sealing Jutsu. We don't know for sure. But since Minato's is brought to attention and Tobirama's isn't, I think it's fair to give him the edge in this 1 damn type lmao. But basically, Tobirama should have WAY more options, better IQ, and Stamina. Although, Minato seems to better at using any Jutsu he does actually know... and faster. So MAYBE that makes up for it? I mean, look how well Gon does in HxH with basically just a special punch? If Minato is faster and better at punching, does it matter if he's not quite as smart and has fewer techniques than Killua? Lol
Well said. There is also the fact that A, Sasuke, and Itachi use Body Flicker in combat directly. Some sources even list Obito running through Hashirama and Tobirama as Body Flicker, so if Body Flicker is not combat speed that further invalidates that feat, ironically.
Man Tobirama Destroys minato 😂😂😂😂😂... Yooo tobirama literally was the MVP against jubito, even minato was shocked by tobirama performance. Minato was a trash there.... Tobirama is sup on react speed, endurance, durability, chakra, raw power, techniques... Bro tobirama is a senju so if you know what that's mean
I just love the "Minato daze" argument. It really demonstrates that Tobirama fans are not the only ones who damage control. I'm not here to debate which is superior but I will say that whenever it comes to Minato, fans love wish-casting. When it comes to his opponents, they are all treated with mass scrutiny. Just an observation
Kakashi is literally nerfed the entire time we see him in the series, until he makes up with Obito. Why would Minato, who practically adopted him, NOT get nerfed when he finds out Obito is the enemy? In Naruto, it's CANON that characters get mental amps and nerfs, all the time. That's like, the entire point of the Will Of Fire. Mental amp from protecting loved ones. Even if you want to ignore the CANON NERF... Minato reacting to 8th Gate Guy is more impressive than anything Tobirama did. Just go by the feats. Minato is still superior. Tobirama says so himself. Now, is it a major gap? Maybe not. Could Tobirama still win? Maybe. As far as I know, he has probably the 2nd or 3rd best arsenal, depending on if you think Kakashi copying over 1,000 Jutsu back in his Anbu days would make him superior. As far as I know, it doesn't. Didn't Tobirama invent over 1,000? But anyway, let's just say Tobirama is 2nd. Hiruzen supposedly knows all the Jutsu in Konoha, so he's first. Not super relevant here... but Minato may not even be 4th. I don't remember any statements about Minato mastering all that many Jutsu, nor really creating many. He's got a few relevant ones, and then like EVERY good Sealing technique Kushina taught him. He MIGHT be superior to Tobirama specifically in his Sealing Jutsu arsenal. In theory, in EVERY OTHER CATEGORY, he knows FAR less. But he's better than Tobirama at every Jutsu he does know lol. (FTG and Rasengan. Possibly even Reaper Death Seal. He's the only character I can recall storing 2 halves of a soul in 2 different bodies. That probably isn't relevant though) So anyway... Tobirama should have more options, and possibly more Chakra? Also better AP and durability... but as far as I know, it's kinda irrelevant for most characters. Like, if you don't have Susano'o, or Hasirama's insane regeneration (or Tsunade/Sakura's Hundred Healings or whatever)... like, they're going to be in the same ballpark. Either could kill the other if they land a good hit or two. So basically, the deciding factor in my opinion is: Do you think Minato's somewhat superior speed makes up for the difference in Tobirama's superior arsenal? You can decide that for yourself. Also, Minato does have the best written exam score in history, and the same feat of touching two fingers to the ground and noticing they're surrounded by 20 dudes... but Tobirama invented way more Jutsu. So basically, their intelligence and Sensory abilities should be comparable... but maybe Tobirama has a slight edge? Especially without Minato using Sage Mode. So maybe not only does Tobirama have more options, but is better at figuring out which to use? But since I mentioned Sage Mode I want to clarify something: Minato ALWAYS downplays himself like Itachi always holds back against anyone from Konoha. He says he's "Not that good" at Sage Mode and then INSTANTLY goes Perfect Sage. So you can't use any of Minato's statements about himself as accurate anti-feats/statements. He's probably fair when assessing anyone else? But not about himself. It's debatable on if he's as good as Naruto or whatever but he's bare-minimum better than Jiraiya as he instantly, casually, goes Perfect Sage. He doesn't need help. I don't even remember if Tobirama has Sage Mode... but just wanted to clarify that Minato isn't really bad at it. Although I don't think he's ever used it, in-character, except like in that one scene in the war where Naruto suggests it and he's like, "I'm bad at it." Lol So we can easily say it's irrelevant if we want. He won't use it. But he's not bad at it.
The first encounter with kinkaku and ginkaku was an anbush on not just Tobirama but also the second raikage who also was left near death and somehow they recognized the mark of the 3rd raikage. I don’t think it’s any more likely that Tobirama killed either of them, especially if in a close to fair 2v2 he still lost
What's up V, been extremely busy lately so I won't be able to watch this anytime soon but I'm sure it was a good vid🔥 And for you lil guys speaking on me in the comments, we all know none of you will run this topic with me.
You say the same shit everytime that’s why you always lose. You pull up on virtue video just to say “I won’t watch it right now I’ll choose to watch later into the future” like that really matters
@@espritsaincorpsain This vid is 45 minutes long lil bro, I’m going to watch it when I have the time to actually focus on it and hear out his arguments.
after watching the video i just wanna say you did an amazing job and covered basically every topic you could cover and you cane to an non biased conclusion
so if im understanding correctly you are saying flying thundergod is kinda like slipspace from halo where they open up a portal and travel in another dimension where distance covered in there translates to greater distance in the original world(like with the nether in minecraft where moving 1 block is equivalent to 8 in the overworld), so you are using space time manipulation but it still requires physical movement within the sub space before re-entering the original space?
Yes, to some extent you are right. Minato’s Space-Time Manipulation or dimensional void is similar to the Kamui Dimension without the objects, but Minato can’t stay for long in that space-time because it is not advanced like Obito’s Kamui. Minato can move in that dimensional void before he reaches a location.
I disagree I think alive tobirama is above any version of minato that’s not kcm i agree mostly with Lokos scaling on tobirama I hope you don’t start downplaying tobirama now in videos saying he’d lose to kisame like swagkage I hope you still think even if minato is stronger tobirama is still one of the strongest people in the naruto verse still top 20 like minato
@@Virhtue Cuz I have appreciated your content in the past. But this video forsakes so much of your previous logic when you already had the topic nailed. You did not even successfully debunk your self from the past. There are several massive contradictions from what you are saying now and what you have said in your old videos, and the complete 180 of interpretation is not even addressed on a lot of these points. But what’s worse is that you were very arrogant, condescending, omitting information I know that you are aware of, making massive assumptions/reaches that you know are fallacious and either disingenuous or flat out wrong on a lot of points. But the part that makes no sense is you referring to people who disagreed with you as “ brainless” “troglodytes” “completely disingenuous” “haven’t seen the series” ect. as if you were not fully on board with nearly all of the positions you are slandering now only a few months ago. You are pretty much saying that four months ago when you were saying that Tobirama was over KCM2 Minato, that you yourself were a dumb, ignorant, disingenuous rat. I’m not sure how you can start the video by saying that you see both sides, then proceed to act like you have to be completely brain dead to choose Tobirama, then switch right back to saying he only wins 7 out of 10 times, then again saying it’s ridiculous to disagree with you. maybe you are just Monkey D Luffy reaching in an attempt to deliver a take no one has heard yet, and shock us all for the sake of content… but honestly, I hope this is just a joke because to me you have destroyed your credibility with this video.
Madara statement is consistent tho it signifies even after madara keft village fought hashirama etc he still believed that tobirama was the fastest of his generation
After watching this video, i feel like the only way that could keep all the feat and the information consistent with accepting the fact that Minato would win is Minato being just a fucked up matchup for Tobirama, even if Tobirama would fare better against other oponents than Minato, Minato is kinda exceeding him in his own game. Superior chakra, physicality or arsenal won't make a difference
I just realized that hiruzen calls yamato by his name even though thats a codename tsunade gave him after hiruzen died. Why would she reuse a codename that doesnt make sense.
Seriously people really think guy is not fast from the series, when he is the only character who destroys the ground as he moves, foot catches flame when he moves and could actually punch flames and air cannons from his fist. These appear physical movements. Garra says “his movements are inhuman” thinking that Kaguya can outrun guy is silly
@@Virhtue isshikis power is other worldly, I’m just saying physically he’s superior to 90% of the characters in the series, take his extreme training for an example. They are able to move and physically do things the normal human wouldn’t be able to, not saying it could beat anyone just stating that you do have that against most folks
Yeah I'm going to agree with your old assessment The people seem to forget that the fourth Hokage struggled against deranged 14-year-old Obito the same Obito that moderate said was essentially fodder and would have taken Itachi or Sasuke over Obito any day given how he praised the both of them. Additionally the second Hokage has more battle experience he also defeated madara's brother with MS that was comparable Madara himself look at how fast he reacted to 10 tales Obito in every corner he was completely on guard unlike the fourth Hokage even analyzing does Sage jutsu work this dude was 100% focused on every aspect of that battle the fourth Hokage just does not have the type of battle experience and awareness not to mention his wide-ranging jutsu he invented the flying thunder god even if the fourth Hokage is more proficient at it like he stated The person who invented it invented it for a reason knowing all of the benefits pros and cons of it and would most likely know the best way to counter it as well The fact that mother and himself only acknowledged the first and second Hokage on the battlefield lets you know where they stand above all of the other Hokage and Shinobi and stated by modern himself this generation of Shinobi are weak compared to their era which was always conflict and they got to polish their skills notice every generation kage are weaker. Also reaction speed definitely goes to the second Hokage given how he was able to react to damn near everything 10 tails Obito did I don't think the hidden leaf village has ever produced a more competent fighter like the second Hokage.
one thing i will say and its not a bad thing but its a "technicality" madara has seen tobirama in fights afterwards as he knows about the edo tensei and the speed feat would likely be a combination of base speed AND FR. otherwise he wouldnt know about it, additionally, madara and hashirama are toptier fighters who can read moves, its teamwork that allows them to react to the others moves. this isnt a criticism but more of a logical look at things. like how tobirama know naruto was ready to use sage rasengan on obito
@Virhtue he would have had to have seen it when he joined and made the leaf. Because tobirama didn't have edo during the warring states, would have likely been after. More likely used in the first war
What this video shows is that people can change their mind on things after thinking about it more or letting thing simmer more...crazy people can change their mind over time, wild the comments can't seem to grasp that
its a shame to see, the teleportation vs transportation almost gave me a stroke, teleportation is a form of transportation which involves the bending of space time otherwise you cannot teleport so using that as a feat to massively blow up minatos speed was just sad, also saying jonin minato isnt the same speed as hokage minato is fair and correct, but then you implied that the raikage never got faster after that which then throws the origional logic away... kcm minato vs tobirama it goes to minato high diff. but Alive vs Alive and it goes to tobirama high diff, monato base does not have as much chakra as tobirama so will run out first, the difference in speed with both of them in base is not as large as the kcm versions so it will be hard for minato to off guard someone who can react to him, any attempt to mass kunai and teleport around the battlefield will be met with a battlefield filled with water washing the area or a tandem blasting the area, tobirama whilst alive has so many abilities to react and prepare counter measures, by no means will it be easy, hell probably be brought to the brink of death, but i believe hell win. again the kcm vs tobirama, sure. but it was also stated in the date books that they were fighting equally, i dont recall that being mentioned here but people love to bring it up with naruto and sasuke when it says they were fighting equally... it is what it is
@@ImPapehungryhe arguably would slam harder than when he is edo lol you are forgetting that Minato in Edo Is at like 40-50% of his True Power as even kabuto's enhanced Edo tensei is still nerfed to about 70-80% Adding Kcm Two would only arguably put him @90% 45%+45% midball
@@Virhtue If tobirama is uncertainly fast enough to put the bombs on jubito, so how did the FTG mark got on him?? Also, you forgot that the hokages were sacrificing themselves taking advantage of their edo bodies to analyse jubito. So its obvious tobi allowed himself to get hit.
Its been shown that the objects going into guiding thunder take time to be absorbed by the seal, so it makes sense that he would blitz it, its massive by the time he arrived it likely finished going through the gate and then of course went out the other end and exploded. just like with the 9 tails beast bomb, it wasnt an instant teleportation.
@@PrinceAjaxson I was actually talking about adult Minato where he killed 1/2 of the 9tails (reaper death seal) & he gave the other one life in prison and had his son be able to use 9tails power all he wants because of the seal.
@@ImPapehungry if you missed it I'll repeat it for you in karin's own words " His Chakra has become colder and much darker its like his not even sasuke anymore" It's because of the progression of his Mangekyo.
Ftg is not a Portal and it is not a worm hole. It works the exact same as sumoning ir reverse sumoning. Its just summoning your self to a place through a subspace. Like the kamui Dimension. They Worp out of one place, arive in the subspace, then warp back into the normal World some where else. Otherwise it wouldnt work with the teleportation of the United forces. Its just that they are in a different relm between their disapearance and reapearance. Its normal teleportation
9:03 Why did you not address this statement that directly proposes that even now Tobirama isn't at full power? I dont know you and am just discovering your channel but statements like "lets be generous to Tobirama" are annoying. Lastly, why do you seem so hesitant to claim Tobirama as the fastest of his generation surpassing both Hashirama and Madara? Am not fishing for an argument just want to know.
@@ImPapehungry he easely beat the fourteen year old and gave his life to insure others could kill him too. He didnt evan have to Die. He decided to so naruto could have kurama, and not be overpowerd by him. Reader death seal is the only seal that can Split the soul and thus the chakra
None of the edotensei where. Evan after kabuto perfected the jutsu, it still left all of them weaker than their alive versions . Evan madara, who was Enhanced, by being given a younger and stonger body, he was still weaker than no eyed madara
He thinks that madara and hashirama are still faster becaus usualy in naruto, the stronger a charakter, the better stats they have, becaus chakra, which makes their blows so strong also enhances their speed.
Tobirama has more versatility. And its his moves. In an actual battle i think tobirama wins. But on paper minato has more destructive power and hax. People just like Minato more. They literally have the same tech but tobiramas a sensory ninja also. They are 2 different types of fighters.
@@someweirdguyMinato has sage mode but can’t sense a intruder during his wife’s pregnancy. He’s overrated. Lost to a 14 year old. At least tobirama died during a war
@@ImPapehungry that was literally the strongest 14 year old in the series other than otsutsuki. But yea sage mode/kmc1 minato is probably closer to tobirama in terms of power
I mean Tobirama has too much going for him high chakara reserves, physical prowess being apart of one of the strongest clan, cut throat behaviour, precise battle IQ numerous techniques practically the God father of Ninjustsu@@Virhtue
I can see alive tobirama stomping tf out of alive minato, but edo minato is definitely stronger than edo tobirama, i think tobirama reaction speed and biq puts him ahead in terms of flying raijin while minato is better once he prep and he is just faster, tobirama against juubidara says a lot about it but we still havent seen what tobirama is capable of he has so much jutsus that he created and is said to be the best water style user, we have seen all from minato
Tobirama didn't kill either of them. Especially not during the ambush. Don't forget when Hiruzen was appointed as hokage, that was Tobirama's death match, so the ambush had to have happened prior to that. He also stated before his final goodbye, that there was an elite tracking unit from the hidden cloud which was led by the gold and silver brothers. This is also further confirmed during the 4th war when the brothers were mocking Tobirama and saying they mopped the floor with him. Now granted it was 20 v 1, but fact remains that he didn't kill either of the brothers.
Ngl the whole thing about madara addressing tobiramas superiority in speed being chalked up to FTG is so baseless 😭😭😭 like what’re you talking about man
@@Virhtue the evidence you gave was based on an over reliance on panels, disregarding context clues, like the fact that madara was heavily implied to have observed and fought with tobirama WAY more off screen then we know. We also know that if FTG was carrying tobiramas speed that hard, his ass woulda been cooked a while ago. Tobiramas raw base speed being higher than that of at LEAST alive hashi/mada is consistent with the fact that edo tobirama was able to react to TWO people relative/above Alive madras and hashi, being juubito(granted he was unstable) and sage madara. TLDR; more evidence as well as context clues push the narrative that big bro madara was referring to tobiramas speed OVERALL and not his very specific FTG speed.
@@marv51 literally the opposite. If madara only was stating FTG to be the real issue and not tobirama speed itself, then he would say something about the technique. Given the context that: 1. FTG is best utilized when ur base speed is already high, 2. Tobirama was physically reacting to madara and juubito in a weakened state, and 3. FTG wouldn’t actually help combat speed as a stat, and tobiramas own combat speed would have to be on madara levels for him to have been hyped up to begin wifh. It makes much more sense that madara simply was just talking ab speed as a whole. Going OUT of your way to be like “no he meant FTG not his actual physical speed” is the more obtuse argument with less evidence
@@GRebron 1. Unless you can prove without assumptions that Madara saw Tobirama fight after the Izuna fight, the FTG argument requires the least amount of assumptions. 2. Tobirama never reacts to either 😭, he mentally perceives them, which isn’t impressive at all. You would have to prove Madara saw Tobirama fight after Izuna’s death 😭
There goes the mask off, another fanboi kid who couldn’t take it anymore of playing Tobirama fan to be cool and troll Minato fanbois to get attention but it didn’t work it’s time to suck up to Minato fanbois to get more views and subscribers. Tobirama sama doesn’t need hypocrites to give him credit it’s good thing for us real Tobirama fans to know hypocrites and loyalists.
Tobirama may have been smarter than Minato in creating jutsu but if I recall correctly minatos battle/combat iq in the highest in the series. I don’t think tobirama is “outsmarting” him in a battle 1v1. I don’t think anyone could
It would have been a great and close fight between those 2 legendary shinobis. But as I always stated, Minato wins, probably with difficulty or even miraculously, but there is no way he could lose, he never lost to someone during his prime. Btw nice video!
Idk, I’ve always had the opinion that aside from chakra volume, Minato had better stats than Tobirama. But i maintain i think Tobirama would win 6/10 times against Minato with his battle IQ and fighting style.
Minato is also has a sensory ability comparable to Tobirama as he was able to sense Naruto fighting with Kurama, and this is before he tapped into KCM.
He’s most likely talking about movement and combat speed, and wouldn’t be more likely that he’s basing it off all the battles and not just that one moment?
I think that is based on that being the most likely assumption as there is only evidence showing a battle prior to EMS, as Madara himself stated Tobirama wasn’t a match for him
@Virhtue we also just don't even know how strong Madara and Izuna actually were at that specific time where izuna died. They could have been under hebi sasuke or pt 1 kakashi for all we know. Or they could have been stronger than Itachi. That whole era is characters scaling to each other with nothing concrete and truly scaleable till EMS Madara fights Hashirama. It's too vague.
Best discussion I’ve seen on flying raîjīn in Ages man! Most impressive… Dunno if I disagree with much of anything… But here the winner is likely the person with more impressive brainscaling than powerscaling…. All it takes is one of the techniques used in the war and he could, if surviving the first strike and seeing the seals Maybe instantly know how to use his improved variant of FTG… But then any Edo paperbomb clone shenanigans getting teleported through his FTG may be game over… But can you send an Èdō tènséī animal stuck with tandem paperbombs to someone else’s kūnaî maybe even whilst they’re holding it like a reverse summoning through their seal like the round robbin or whatever multilingual wordplay is going on there hehe I think they’re more comparable but Mínàtō died way too young… Not being fast enough to save Kākáshí’s squad that day is what’s so sad about his kánnëbí bridge victory over…was it 1000 or so stone ninjas? Man that’s embarrassing for the stone when one dude deletes thousands… I think it’s more like fookt on sight… if you see the man in battle as an enemy you are more than lucky to remain alive… But we never saw how abusively Tōbírámâ uses Èdō Tènséī and tandem paperbombs which the combos for that with FTG are kinda unbelievable… All it takes is one ally getting saved with teleporting tandem paperbomb clone shenanigans and you could have tandem explosives at all the seals potentially… Though if alive or Èdō does the chákrä cost of the explosion become a big chákrâ cost or is it lighter than a Kūnaî? The winner is whoever is written to notice enough to know enough to use all the right moves in the right order without any foolish mistakes and I feel like Mínàtō’s willingness to try stuff and youth are why he may not be capable of knowing well enough the harsh battle expectations that a Sènjū might have especially if they’re wary because they know you’ve improved their own moves… But how fast does tobirama notice all this? Pretty quick during the war but by end they’re basically mates or even relatives… hmmmmmmm….. I mean we all thought that one back in the day with the imaginary clan but looks that have tsunádé relative or something hair colour… but that’s granny tsūnádé theory territory isn’t it ha… he feels more like a Non Official Nephew or something… but I’m just speculating now on the lineage and quite clear talents in eachothers moves being exhibited down genetic line arguably if you count the first jūtsū in the series’ forbidden variant being how it’s tied together…. Just an idea though right? : D
Go and get PHD on theoretical physics as you the contex of FTG and wormholes are inaccurate. Ive studied this amd i can tell you that you simplified it too much so it would match Minato being faster.
Lowkey disappointing that Tobirama lost to 20 nameless Shinobi when people like ohnoki and tsunade were rivaling 5 v3 susanoos, even though they were also exhausted 😭😭
@@PrinceAjaxson I won't say my opinion, I'm staying away from this topic. I already have my hands full with my takes on One Punch Man scaling, I don't need to get into Naruto debates too 😅 I'll say at first I believed Minato stomped in my early days, then I believed Tobirama stomped after getting into his arguments, then I believed it was a close battle that could go either way for a little while before going back to the Tobirama side. Now I'm honestly indifferent. It's been discussed so much and there are so many arguments and debunks from so many people going around that I've kind of lost interest. I will say I think this is a good video.
@@fbafoundationalbuck-broken6011 again, you want to take it from the databook or from the manga, the conclusion is the same, Minato is way above the likes of Tobirama lol
I disagree with the outcome and think that Alive Tobirama beats Alive Minato but KCM Minato wins imo. I still see where you’re coming from tho. Good job.
Gotta be real here, I am always happy when someone puts Tobirama over Minato, since Tobirama is one of my favorite characters and I always thought that Minato was kind of annoying. In the way, that while reading/Watching the story, to me it felt in the war arc, that Kishimoto just retroactively buffed Minato to remain in the "powerful father figure" Position. While Tobirama to me felt more like he was there to hype up Hashirama in a sense, since it felt like whenever Tobirama was shown to be impressive, Hashirama was just either shown or mentioned to be superior. Which is annoying me as well since it didn´t make sense in character to me that Tobirama didn´t even attempt to research or attain Sage Mode, even tho Hashirama became the most powerful Shinobi of his time with it and as the Super Smart Creator of all shit it would only make sense for him to research it as well, since we know he definitely knew about Sage Mode and Sage Chakra, but again, I feel like both Senju brothers whipping out Sage mode would have made Hashirma less impressive. TL:DR Fuck Minato, but sadly I can´t really argue against him being stronger.
@@Virhtuealive tobirama would destroy alive Minato. He doesn’t have kcm. Only reason he was abt to use it was because of edo and naruto befriending the kyuubi. Y’all over hype him so much it’s ridiculous. He lost to 14 year old obito. Tobirama would have killed obito that night.
Awesome video “dumb troglodyte”😂😂you have the best shit talk🔥 what is your opinion on tobirama vs itachi? Tobirama beat izuna which to me izunas highest interpretation= end of 5kage summit susuke. Itachi should be the strongest ms user out of anybody bc the susanoo is fully developed with 2 spirit weapons
One is hashiramas blood brother who share the same genes and heritage and training .....and the other is just a knock off whos demon posessed. Lets be real. Tobirama Wins
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Other Minor Things you guys may want me to address, that I just didn’t due to the video length going a little long, and they were sort of awkward, to put in if I’m being honest
Cee Stating V1 Ayy is on Par With Minato?!
When Cee states this, he states specifically that when Raikage gets amped up, his reaction speed and nerve transmission is on par with even Konoha’s Yellow Flash, referring to Jonin Minato (who fought in the third Great War). Now there are a few things to address here, firstly, is that Cee has not a clue Jonin Minato’s reaction speed. We know this as his age wouldn’t line up to be placed and war and he directly states, that the Fourth Great Ninja war is the first war he’s ever been in (ch. 515). I also addressed that Jonin Minato and Hokage Minato differ in strength, whether you take the synopsis statement, the fourth databook’s wording or the second databook implying Minato kept using his command ability even once Hokage. So at best, being generous to Cee and the Raikage, this could fit with the narrative that the Raikage Ayy, at peak speed, has trained enough to be on the level of Jonin Minato, to which Naruto needs to surpass and then obviously surpass Hokage Minato with KCM2.
Minato Cutting The Eight Tails, is good AP?!
No, this feat is fairly exaggerated, when you account that he cut Bee’s partial tentacle you have to hold a level at which this tentacle in specific scales to, and a level of note at that. To which we don’t, you can see that Jonin Ayy was capable of cutting a similar tentacle during a Flashback. So no Minato slicing the tentacle is a super viable AP feat, you still say that him attempting to Slice Bee as he did, that’s something he does in character.
Tobirama’s Water Lance?!
The Guide: One Decade, One Hundred Ninja states that Tobirama possessed a water lance, not shown in his battle against Hiruzen, the Second Hokage. Surely there is nothing that can’t be cut. So this could imply that as of the publishing date of this guide, This Lance can cut through anything. This guide came out right after the Pain arc I believe, so yes this Lance could be a very viable wincon against Minato, if he manages to pull this off.
Would Minato Go Sage Mode?!
Probably not, Minato in life or death situations does not enter Sage Mode in character. This is likely due to his allocation for the Senjutsu probably not that good as we are unsure at what point Minato began charging up his Senjutsu. So it probably wouldn’t be a super viable option, but I suppose could still come out.
Minato One Shot?!
You can imply that Minato is of the caliber of Hashirama as, regardless of translation, they all imply of the time of origin the caliber of. Which has to also be in reference to those who battled or helped seal Kurama which is Hashirama, Mito and Madara so it’s that with Minato’s arsenal he could fight on that caliber, I do go much deeper into this in my Solo Minato video, which I recommend!
Tobirama’s bullets are greater Madara?!
Tobirama fires his water senbon, a jutsu where water is built up in the mouth to fire high speed bullets to then snipe at vital spots, when Tobirama uses this you could say this is one; in character for Tobirama to hold back to where he is appearing to lose, to then use these and catch the opponent offguard just when they are sure of victory. Madara reacts to these bullets, however does use a one arm susanoo guard, with the only similar thing ever used was in his Edo states where the Susanoo aura stopped projectiles. So you could say that These are so potent that Madara was uncomfortable at trying to tank them with his durability (as he was doing that reckless style way too much with the biju) therefore he opted for the Susanoo. Or option two is he wasn’t to just boast on Tobirama’s weakness more, showing his new superiority. Either way, Minato isn’t a tank, once again, so if he would pull this off or Maybe Minato put him close to death and Tobirama was able to catch him off guard, this is a viable wincon for Tobirama.
I don’t think cutting the tail is amazing AP, but it does show it wasn’t just a normal kunai strike like some people believe
Just making contact with the tip, sliced it all the way through it, whereas sasuke had to saw all the way through
I mean Minato did tank juubidara's kick pretty well
Minato vs tobirama in my opinion is a stalemate.Mimato is faster with the ftg but tpbirama is using the ftg as well. The ftg can catch others that are not using the ftg but can it can someone just as fast????
What you should have pointed out is who's jutsu is best for laying traps at each teleport point and who will outsmart the other.
In conclusion a fight between minato and tobirama will end when one outsmart the other
@@vaughnjackson6297 ooh interesting… haven’t heard this one before
@@vaughnjackson6297No because Minato activated sage mode in 1 second then punches a *HOLE* in Tobirama. Also Minato has the summoning justu so he can have his creatures take care of Tobirama & THEY ALL UTILIZE SENJUTSU
“ i’m an anime power scaler, not a fucking physicist.”
Virtue, 2024.
Loved your line about the Kinkaku squad being 20 "iruka to itachi lvl" characters
Ppl constantly try to overhype or specify they were 20 s-rank Akatsuki lvl ninja or something and its just stated nowhere in any source. Its not an anti feat or a good feat. It's ambiguity makes it nearly irrelevant. The 1st encounter at least has a bit to go on.
It’s just “highly skilled Kinkaku unit” not S-rank, Takumo Hyuga is highly skilled but you probably don’t recognize his name
@@Virhtue exactly! I wish we knew, but we just don't know. Also, Takumo is the guy on the recon squad? Idk 😅
Don’t know how Tobirama would call a Chunin highly skilled ninja when hes a kage with a stacked team
Iruka to Itachi is a huge gap. that's like saying Bronny to LeBron
Also worth noting that Minato mentions having to time up his teleportation against Obito, making it pretty clear he’s slowing down to match Obito’s speed
Exactly! I don’t get that misconception, his whole idea what Kamui was too dangerous to mess around with. He wasn’t aware of how it worked slough he immediately noted it was superior to his own and only knew one aspect, he can’t phase and attack at the same time. To which he then needed a timed MUTUAL strike, in which he did and then blitzed him!
Faxxxxxxx bro
Slowing down? How tf did you get that? If he doesnt time it right obito will phase through. Its not because minato is faster.
@@someweirdguy He has to outspeed Obito just enough to be able to counter his Kamui, which means he’d have to slow down enough to make Obito think he’s gotten him to force him to materialize and then perception blitz him with FTG. This is why the chapter note says, “Minato wins the battle of speed!” He’s very clearly adjusting to Obito in order to set up the FTG level 2, and he can’t adjust his speed faster than it is, so he must be adjusting it in the other direction, aka slowing down.
@@sageofthickcalveshmmm this is an interesting tale!! I always figured he sped his ftg UP for the level 2 since it’s not really “instant” as shown in the war arc by saying “clones will reduce the speed of ftg” . I admit you might be right but I still think he could have been increasing his speed since the word “up” was used. But I’ll have to reread and think about it lol
What the hell your understanding of the FTG being movement and not teleportation is mind blowing its a space-time type jutsu.
Yeah you know I also shower seven statements stating it has movement, maybe think about those before you blatantly target the physics even after I regarded those as supplemental information. Don’t cherry pick
Do you mean mind blowing or mind bogeling? Mind blowing is good mindestens bogeling is bad
been waiting for this ever since you alluded to making this video omg
Sorry it took so long my man, TH-cam was bugging on a few things, but I hope you enjoy it
@@Virhtue liked it a lot, good job 🙇🏾♀️
Why do anime youtubers love head cannon so much. Like how you gonna make up an argument like tobirama not faster than hashi or madara. The story litterally has the 1st 4 hokage race to the battle field using body flicker. Tobirama beat hashirama and went on to make a comment that minato's body flicker (raw movement speed) was better than his own. Clear evidence the fastest leaf shimobi prior to minato was tobirama.
Doesn't Minato FR to the battlefield while the other actually travel?
@@palm_fangz1018 no he used body flicker, tobi commented as much. Further the leaf village not exactly close to the battlefield so a fr minato reaches long before then not the few seconds he does.
@@shomarc true but I don't think body flicker and combat speed are the same thing, tobirama is probably faster in combat speed then travel speed
@@palm_fangz1018 they arent the same but body flicker is a generic jutsu to increase movement speed and can be used in battle example shisui. I actually like to think alot of the 1v1 fights we see are in a slow motion perspective cause they be using body flicker. Despite naruto and 4th raikage being the fastest ninja alive their 1v1 looked pretty normal.
@@shomarc true
Great vid. The work u put in here rly shines through. Amazing to me how a series that ended nearly 10 years ago still has a community which can produce excellent new creators like u.
Seriously love to hear this my man❤️
So ofc i know this is about scaling but for me the appeal of Tobirama were never his compat abilities but rather how sturdy of a shinobi he was. Comming directly after the gods Hashirama and Madara wich in terms of strength he could never measure up to but still becomming a legend in his own right by using the talents he was given to their fullest, even creating three of the jutsu who were the most influential on the story.
Sure we just don't see him as much cause he isn't that relevant to the story compared to characters like Madara or Minato but we also never see him faulter, always doing the best he can in every situation, instead of giving up when he is outmatched.
To me he is like a historical person whom the average guy doesn't know much about but as soon as u begin to read into him it becomes apparent how much influence he rly had, like for example take roman Emperors everybody knows about Caesar and Augustus but only if u dig a little deeper u find guys like Vespasian and Hadrian who were every bit as important.
Sorry, I just like the guy very much and even though I obviously love scaling am a little pissed about how many people pin the worth of a character only on their strength, not saying u did that but just in general.
You forgot to mention that Tobirama was focused on the TSO while Minato didn’t know it was on him yet. Madara states Tobirama watches from the shadows then makes his move. So once Minato was about to grab it it’s logical to assume that Tobirama had already started moving to grab the orb because he was watching from the outside. Also Minato didn’t even have to reach his hand out he could have just teleported it with chakra
Baseless
Yeah, there is one shot that’s almost like a perspective shot
Yep true
Shinobi's are supposed to be clever. Jubito was on a diff level, tobirama, etc needed to be careful with him.
You turn around still basically do the same thing and debunk his feats and say “not all that great” placing a tag at that speed unnoticed as far above anything minato shown 😅
It is always way more difficult to create a brand new jutsu.
Tobirama created many very powerful jutsu during his lifetime so of course people are gonna tinker with it and improve on it.
Take Minato. He created Rasengan and everybody since then has learned to push past the base form and give it a new twist.
Edo Tensei is the perfect example of generation advancements. Tobimaru created it. Orochimaru improved on it. Kabuto then took it to an even higher level.
The issue isn't that Minato beats Tobirama. It's how overhyped each fanbase makes each. Mainly Alive Minato vs Alive Tobirama. Tobirama stans overrate his juubito feats. Minato fans overrate his comparisons to Hashirama, Minato's sage mode, Minato's speed, etc. It's clear they are in the same tier with while having slightly different techniques. You can expect in normal circumstances for Minato to have a slight edge. But nothing crazy where he's unbeatable for Tobirama. You could even argue Tobirama wins based on having better IQ and stamina.
Tobirama feats against juubito was insane compared to what a buffed up kcm minato did tho, he just got speed blitz
@@Violate..The uchiha fans down play the fuck out of tobiramas feats bruh.Half the shit they discredit from him I can do the same for minatos FTG feats.
Don't forget the difference in arsenal. Kushina possibly taught Minato more and better Sealing Jutsu, but with how many Tobirama invented, he show know more in any other category. And he MIGHT even know more Sealing Jutsu. We don't know for sure. But since Minato's is brought to attention and Tobirama's isn't, I think it's fair to give him the edge in this 1 damn type lmao.
But basically, Tobirama should have WAY more options, better IQ, and Stamina. Although, Minato seems to better at using any Jutsu he does actually know... and faster. So MAYBE that makes up for it?
I mean, look how well Gon does in HxH with basically just a special punch? If Minato is faster and better at punching, does it matter if he's not quite as smart and has fewer techniques than Killua? Lol
O boy I've been waiting for this 🙏🏼
Glad to hear that
Well said. There is also the fact that A, Sasuke, and Itachi use Body Flicker in combat directly. Some sources even list Obito running through Hashirama and Tobirama as Body Flicker, so if Body Flicker is not combat speed that further invalidates that feat, ironically.
That I’m saying the bomb feat has so many negative implications towards it
Man Tobirama Destroys minato 😂😂😂😂😂... Yooo tobirama literally was the MVP against jubito, even minato was shocked by tobirama performance. Minato was a trash there.... Tobirama is sup on react speed, endurance, durability, chakra, raw power, techniques... Bro tobirama is a senju so if you know what that's mean
I just love the "Minato daze" argument. It really demonstrates that Tobirama fans are not the only ones who damage control. I'm not here to debate which is superior but I will say that whenever it comes to Minato, fans love wish-casting. When it comes to his opponents, they are all treated with mass scrutiny. Just an observation
I could see that point but many Tobirama fans question if moving from point A to point B is speed?
@@Virhtuebaseless when it can’t be measured like a foot race
Kakashi is literally nerfed the entire time we see him in the series, until he makes up with Obito. Why would Minato, who practically adopted him, NOT get nerfed when he finds out Obito is the enemy? In Naruto, it's CANON that characters get mental amps and nerfs, all the time. That's like, the entire point of the Will Of Fire. Mental amp from protecting loved ones.
Even if you want to ignore the CANON NERF... Minato reacting to 8th Gate Guy is more impressive than anything Tobirama did. Just go by the feats. Minato is still superior. Tobirama says so himself.
Now, is it a major gap? Maybe not. Could Tobirama still win? Maybe. As far as I know, he has probably the 2nd or 3rd best arsenal, depending on if you think Kakashi copying over 1,000 Jutsu back in his Anbu days would make him superior. As far as I know, it doesn't. Didn't Tobirama invent over 1,000? But anyway, let's just say Tobirama is 2nd. Hiruzen supposedly knows all the Jutsu in Konoha, so he's first. Not super relevant here... but Minato may not even be 4th.
I don't remember any statements about Minato mastering all that many Jutsu, nor really creating many. He's got a few relevant ones, and then like EVERY good Sealing technique Kushina taught him. He MIGHT be superior to Tobirama specifically in his Sealing Jutsu arsenal. In theory, in EVERY OTHER CATEGORY, he knows FAR less. But he's better than Tobirama at every Jutsu he does know lol. (FTG and Rasengan. Possibly even Reaper Death Seal. He's the only character I can recall storing 2 halves of a soul in 2 different bodies. That probably isn't relevant though)
So anyway... Tobirama should have more options, and possibly more Chakra? Also better AP and durability... but as far as I know, it's kinda irrelevant for most characters. Like, if you don't have Susano'o, or Hasirama's insane regeneration (or Tsunade/Sakura's Hundred Healings or whatever)... like, they're going to be in the same ballpark. Either could kill the other if they land a good hit or two.
So basically, the deciding factor in my opinion is: Do you think Minato's somewhat superior speed makes up for the difference in Tobirama's superior arsenal?
You can decide that for yourself.
Also, Minato does have the best written exam score in history, and the same feat of touching two fingers to the ground and noticing they're surrounded by 20 dudes... but Tobirama invented way more Jutsu. So basically, their intelligence and Sensory abilities should be comparable... but maybe Tobirama has a slight edge? Especially without Minato using Sage Mode.
So maybe not only does Tobirama have more options, but is better at figuring out which to use?
But since I mentioned Sage Mode I want to clarify something: Minato ALWAYS downplays himself like Itachi always holds back against anyone from Konoha. He says he's "Not that good" at Sage Mode and then INSTANTLY goes Perfect Sage. So you can't use any of Minato's statements about himself as accurate anti-feats/statements. He's probably fair when assessing anyone else? But not about himself.
It's debatable on if he's as good as Naruto or whatever but he's bare-minimum better than Jiraiya as he instantly, casually, goes Perfect Sage. He doesn't need help.
I don't even remember if Tobirama has Sage Mode... but just wanted to clarify that Minato isn't really bad at it. Although I don't think he's ever used it, in-character, except like in that one scene in the war where Naruto suggests it and he's like, "I'm bad at it." Lol
So we can easily say it's irrelevant if we want. He won't use it. But he's not bad at it.
@@Paradox-es3blGreat analysis. Neither one are slamming the other like both groups of fans think.
The first encounter with kinkaku and ginkaku was an anbush on not just Tobirama but also the second raikage who also was left near death and somehow they recognized the mark of the 3rd raikage. I don’t think it’s any more likely that Tobirama killed either of them, especially if in a close to fair 2v2 he still lost
What's up V, been extremely busy lately so I won't be able to watch this anytime soon but I'm sure it was a good vid🔥
And for you lil guys speaking on me in the comments, we all know none of you will run this topic with me.
You say the same shit everytime that’s why you always lose. You pull up on virtue video just to say “I won’t watch it right now I’ll choose to watch later into the future” like that really matters
You are too busy to watch the video but you knew there’s people talking about you in comments ? Lol
I’ll gladly run this topic with you. Minato wins
@@espritsaincorpsain This vid is 45 minutes long lil bro, I’m going to watch it when I have the time to actually focus on it and hear out his arguments.
Yh right
Bro saying base minato is kcm 2 becuz he saw him in kcm 2 is like saying minato=jiraiya speed just becuz tsunadensaw jiraiya and Minato in sm Naruto
Its easy to say tobirams shouldn't be caught off guard, but thats the issue, we dont know what happened. Any thing could have happened. 👍
ive been looking forward to this video
after watching the video i just wanna say you did an amazing job and covered basically every topic you could cover and you cane to an non biased conclusion
so if im understanding correctly you are saying flying thundergod is kinda like slipspace from halo where they open up a portal and travel in another dimension where distance covered in there translates to greater distance in the original world(like with the nether in minecraft where moving 1 block is equivalent to 8 in the overworld), so you are using space time manipulation but it still requires physical movement within the sub space before re-entering the original space?
Yes, to some extent you are right. Minato’s Space-Time Manipulation or dimensional void is similar to the Kamui Dimension without the objects, but Minato can’t stay for long in that space-time because it is not advanced like Obito’s Kamui. Minato can move in that dimensional void before he reaches a location.
At this point I think they just down playing Tobirama for clicks . Like when someone says a word wrong and you have a hundred people correct it.
I think it’s that Tobirama has been so overrated you have to apply a certain level of criticism
I disagree I think alive tobirama is above any version of minato that’s not kcm i agree mostly with Lokos scaling on tobirama I hope you don’t start downplaying tobirama now in videos saying he’d lose to kisame like swagkage I hope you still think even if minato is stronger tobirama is still one of the strongest people in the naruto verse still top 20 like minato
Gotta be a set up for an April fools prank 😂 this was master splinter level ratting
Debunk it
Why do you think that my friend?
@@Virhtue Cuz I have appreciated your content in the past. But this video forsakes so much of your previous logic when you already had the topic nailed.
You did not even successfully debunk your self from the past. There are several massive contradictions from what you are saying now and what you have said in your old videos, and the complete 180 of interpretation is not even addressed on a lot of these points.
But what’s worse is that you were very arrogant, condescending, omitting information I know that you are aware of, making massive assumptions/reaches that you know are fallacious and either disingenuous or flat out wrong on a lot of points.
But the part that makes no sense is you referring to people who disagreed with you as “ brainless” “troglodytes” “completely disingenuous” “haven’t seen the series” ect. as if you were not fully on board with nearly all of the positions you are slandering now only a few months ago. You are pretty much saying that four months ago when you were saying that Tobirama was over KCM2 Minato, that you yourself were a dumb, ignorant, disingenuous rat.
I’m not sure how you can start the video by saying that you see both sides, then proceed to act like you have to be completely brain dead to choose Tobirama, then switch right back to saying he only wins 7 out of 10 times, then again saying it’s ridiculous to disagree with you.
maybe you are just Monkey D Luffy reaching in an attempt to deliver a take no one has heard yet, and shock us all for the sake of content… but honestly, I hope this is just a joke because to me you have destroyed your credibility with this video.
Madara statement is consistent tho it signifies even after madara keft village fought hashirama etc he still believed that tobirama was the fastest of his generation
let’s be real we all know they both pale in comparison to kakazu 🗣️
How could they get passt his raw durability?!!!??
sasori*
Kakuzu killed the god of shinobi and stole his heart so yeah
@@espritsaincorpsain something the boruto verse couldn’t do
@@nwk1626Sasori is a fodder 😭
You have betrayed the Tobirama agenda
True
Good
Just remember they do count teleportation as speed in the anime/manga.
After watching this video, i feel like the only way that could keep all the feat and the information consistent with accepting the fact that Minato would win is Minato being just a fucked up matchup for Tobirama, even if Tobirama would fare better against other oponents than Minato, Minato is kinda exceeding him in his own game. Superior chakra, physicality or arsenal won't make a difference
Sage mode Minato has more chakra than Tobirama
@@DatsLegitness I agree, i'm talking about Base Minato exclusively
@@UberRoot3294 base Minato out of chakra pull half of the nine tails and still had more chakra remember you can only pull as much chakra as you have
@@PrinceAjaxson Where did you get that statement?
@@UberRoot3294 what statement the reaper death?
I just realized that hiruzen calls yamato by his name even though thats a codename tsunade gave him after hiruzen died. Why would she reuse a codename that doesnt make sense.
Seriously people really think guy is not fast from the series, when he is the only character who destroys the ground as he moves, foot catches flame when he moves and could actually punch flames and air cannons from his fist. These appear physical movements. Garra says “his movements are inhuman” thinking that Kaguya can outrun guy is silly
So 6th gate guy is stronger than Isshiki bc he has fire when he punches?!? Awful arguments
@@Virhtue isshikis power is other worldly, I’m just saying physically he’s superior to 90% of the characters in the series, take his extreme training for an example. They are able to move and physically do things the normal human wouldn’t be able to, not saying it could beat anyone just stating that you do have that against most folks
Yeah I'm going to agree with your old assessment The people seem to forget that the fourth Hokage struggled against deranged 14-year-old Obito the same Obito that moderate said was essentially fodder and would have taken Itachi or Sasuke over Obito any day given how he praised the both of them. Additionally the second Hokage has more battle experience he also defeated madara's brother with MS that was comparable Madara himself look at how fast he reacted to 10 tales Obito in every corner he was completely on guard unlike the fourth Hokage even analyzing does Sage jutsu work this dude was 100% focused on every aspect of that battle the fourth Hokage just does not have the type of battle experience and awareness not to mention his wide-ranging jutsu he invented the flying thunder god even if the fourth Hokage is more proficient at it like he stated The person who invented it invented it for a reason knowing all of the benefits pros and cons of it and would most likely know the best way to counter it as well The fact that mother and himself only acknowledged the first and second Hokage on the battlefield lets you know where they stand above all of the other Hokage and Shinobi and stated by modern himself this generation of Shinobi are weak compared to their era which was always conflict and they got to polish their skills notice every generation kage are weaker.
Also reaction speed definitely goes to the second Hokage given how he was able to react to damn near everything 10 tails Obito did I don't think the hidden leaf village has ever produced a more competent fighter like the second Hokage.
Did Hashirama really reacted to Tobirama during that paper bomb scene? Or was he just reacting to the detonation process of those bombs?
one thing i will say and its not a bad thing but its a "technicality" madara has seen tobirama in fights afterwards as he knows about the edo tensei and the speed feat would likely be a combination of base speed AND FR. otherwise he wouldnt know about it, additionally, madara and hashirama are toptier fighters who can read moves, its teamwork that allows them to react to the others moves. this isnt a criticism but more of a logical look at things. like how tobirama know naruto was ready to use sage rasengan on obito
You can prove that he saw Tobirama’s Edo Tensei after he died, it had to of been before bc he copied the signs and that was warring states
@Virhtue he would have had to have seen it when he joined and made the leaf. Because tobirama didn't have edo during the warring states, would have likely been after. More likely used in the first war
@@manny9191wait… tobirama did not had edo tensei during warring states? Where is it stated?
What this video shows is that people can change their mind on things after thinking about it more or letting thing simmer more...crazy people can change their mind over time, wild the comments can't seem to grasp that
That’s very true, it’s a wild thing to grow I suppose
This video is completely saturated with unwarranted understatements of Tobirama's exploits and excuses for minato's bad moments🤣
its a shame to see, the teleportation vs transportation almost gave me a stroke, teleportation is a form of transportation which involves the bending of space time otherwise you cannot teleport so using that as a feat to massively blow up minatos speed was just sad, also saying jonin minato isnt the same speed as hokage minato is fair and correct, but then you implied that the raikage never got faster after that which then throws the origional logic away... kcm minato vs tobirama it goes to minato high diff. but Alive vs Alive and it goes to tobirama high diff, monato base does not have as much chakra as tobirama so will run out first, the difference in speed with both of them in base is not as large as the kcm versions so it will be hard for minato to off guard someone who can react to him, any attempt to mass kunai and teleport around the battlefield will be met with a battlefield filled with water washing the area or a tandem blasting the area, tobirama whilst alive has so many abilities to react and prepare counter measures, by no means will it be easy, hell probably be brought to the brink of death, but i believe hell win. again the kcm vs tobirama, sure. but it was also stated in the date books that they were fighting equally, i dont recall that being mentioned here but people love to bring it up with naruto and sasuke when it says they were fighting equally... it is what it is
I stated that Raikage got faster😭
They work synonymously, they aren’t one in the same
Mans said Kcm Minato beats Tobirama high diff. Kcm Minato will make 5 shadow clones and flying raijin Tobirama to death NO DIFF💯
@@SageOfSixVidz he don’t have Kcm while alive. He loses
@@ImPapehungryhe arguably would slam harder than when he is edo lol you are forgetting that Minato in Edo Is at like 40-50% of his True Power as even kabuto's enhanced Edo tensei is still nerfed to about 70-80%
Adding Kcm Two would only arguably put him @90% 45%+45% midball
Tobirama team here let’s see how it plays out!
Yeah!🔥
any arguments for tobiramas side (i doubt there will be any )
Hope you enjoy!
@@sinner353you're not him lil bro
@@sinner353Minato lost to a 14 year old kid.
Sage mode minato got blitz by jubi madara, but now base no hands edo minato is around 8th gates guy 😮??
Perception ≠ reaction
Bc he went after madara is combat speed, he just had to think for his neurotransmitters to fire, same as Tobirama reacting to RSM Madara
@@Virhtue If tobirama is uncertainly fast enough to put the bombs on jubito, so how did the FTG mark got on him?? Also, you forgot that the hokages were sacrificing themselves taking advantage of their edo bodies to analyse jubito. So its obvious tobi allowed himself to get hit.
@@kelvinallen9327he’s ratting
Minato is nowhere near guy speed he intercepted the kunai by moving in a sub space that’s completely diff
Its been shown that the objects going into guiding thunder take time to be absorbed by the seal, so it makes sense that he would blitz it, its massive by the time he arrived it likely finished going through the gate and then of course went out the other end and exploded. just like with the 9 tails beast bomb, it wasnt an instant teleportation.
What part of the bomb feat being horrible don’t you get 😭
Still Tobirama is not beating Minato. Tobirama died to kinkaku. Minato stalemated with 9tails
@@DatsLegitness did you not watch the video? 😭😭😭
@@DatsLegitness plus that was a weakened nerfed 14 years old Minato
@@PrinceAjaxson I was actually talking about adult Minato where he killed 1/2 of the 9tails (reaper death seal) & he gave the other one life in prison and had his son be able to use 9tails power all he wants because of the seal.
They lost to durui because of sage of six path tools not raw power. You ratting
The tools Tenten uses, don’t say I’m ratting
@@Virhtue that helps my point actually. How come Minato didn’t sense obito during kyuubi massacre
@@ImPapehungry if you missed it I'll repeat it for you in karin's own words " His Chakra has become colder and much darker its like his not even sasuke anymore"
It's because of the progression of his Mangekyo.
Ftg is not a Portal and it is not a worm hole. It works the exact same as sumoning ir reverse sumoning. Its just summoning your self to a place through a subspace. Like the kamui Dimension. They Worp out of one place, arive in the subspace, then warp back into the normal World some where else. Otherwise it wouldnt work with the teleportation of the United forces. Its just that they are in a different relm between their disapearance and reapearance. Its normal teleportation
9:03 Why did you not address this statement that directly proposes that even now Tobirama isn't at full power?
I dont know you and am just discovering your channel but statements like "lets be generous to Tobirama" are annoying.
Lastly, why do you seem so hesitant to claim Tobirama as the fastest of his generation surpassing both Hashirama and Madara?
Am not fishing for an argument just want to know.
He probably won't answer to you and like other comments wanking minato
Minato lost to a 14 year
@@ImPapehungry he easely beat the fourteen year old and gave his life to insure others could kill him too. He didnt evan have to Die. He decided to so naruto could have kurama, and not be overpowerd by him. Reader death seal is the only seal that can Split the soul and thus the chakra
None of the edotensei where. Evan after kabuto perfected the jutsu, it still left all of them weaker than their alive versions . Evan madara, who was Enhanced, by being given a younger and stonger body, he was still weaker than no eyed madara
He thinks that madara and hashirama are still faster becaus usualy in naruto, the stronger a charakter, the better stats they have, becaus chakra, which makes their blows so strong also enhances their speed.
Bro finally saw the light
Fax bro you came back to the good side Minato wins, hes literally a way better version of tobirama
I genuinely do think this matchup is very interesting
@@Virhtue it certainly is but I still have my boi winning in a close fight
Tobirama has more versatility. And its his moves. In an actual battle i think tobirama wins. But on paper minato has more destructive power and hax. People just like Minato more. They literally have the same tech but tobiramas a sensory ninja also. They are 2 different types of fighters.
@@someweirdguyMinato has sage mode but can’t sense a intruder during his wife’s pregnancy. He’s overrated. Lost to a 14 year old. At least tobirama died during a war
@@ImPapehungry that was literally the strongest 14 year old in the series other than otsutsuki. But yea sage mode/kmc1 minato is probably closer to tobirama in terms of power
Tobirama winning we still haven't seen all the jutsu he knows
And we won’t because the manga is finished already since a long time…
So why are they good jutsu?
I mean Tobirama has too much going for him high chakara reserves, physical prowess being apart of one of the strongest clan, cut throat behaviour, precise battle IQ numerous techniques practically the God father of Ninjustsu@@Virhtue
I can see alive tobirama stomping tf out of alive minato, but edo minato is definitely stronger than edo tobirama, i think tobirama reaction speed and biq puts him ahead in terms of flying raijin while minato is better once he prep and he is just faster, tobirama against juubidara says a lot about it but we still havent seen what tobirama is capable of he has so much jutsus that he created and is said to be the best water style user, we have seen all from minato
Tobirama didn't kill either of them. Especially not during the ambush. Don't forget when Hiruzen was appointed as hokage, that was Tobirama's death match, so the ambush had to have happened prior to that. He also stated before his final goodbye, that there was an elite tracking unit from the hidden cloud which was led by the gold and silver brothers.
This is also further confirmed during the 4th war when the brothers were mocking Tobirama and saying they mopped the floor with him. Now granted it was 20 v 1, but fact remains that he didn't kill either of the brothers.
Ngl the whole thing about madara addressing tobiramas superiority in speed being chalked up to FTG is so baseless 😭😭😭 like what’re you talking about man
Baseless, yet I gave evidence, maybe watch longer to the FTG section as that may help you understand it
@@Virhtue the evidence you gave was based on an over reliance on panels, disregarding context clues, like the fact that madara was heavily implied to have observed and fought with tobirama WAY more off screen then we know. We also know that if FTG was carrying tobiramas speed that hard, his ass woulda been cooked a while ago. Tobiramas raw base speed being higher than that of at LEAST
alive hashi/mada is consistent with the fact that edo tobirama was able to react to TWO people relative/above Alive madras and hashi, being juubito(granted he was unstable) and sage madara.
TLDR; more evidence as well as context clues push the narrative that big bro madara was referring to tobiramas speed OVERALL and not his very specific FTG speed.
@@GRebrongive said implications 😭. Virhtue’s arg requires the least amount of assumptions to work. Thus Occams
@@marv51 literally the opposite. If madara only was stating FTG to be the real issue and not tobirama speed itself, then he would say something about the technique. Given the context that: 1. FTG is best utilized when ur base speed is already high, 2. Tobirama was physically reacting to madara and juubito in a weakened state, and 3. FTG wouldn’t actually help combat speed as a stat, and tobiramas own combat speed would have to be on madara levels for him to have been hyped up to begin wifh. It makes much more sense that madara simply was just talking ab speed as a whole. Going OUT of your way to be like “no he meant FTG not his actual physical speed” is the more obtuse argument with less evidence
@@GRebron 1. Unless you can prove without assumptions that Madara saw Tobirama fight after the Izuna fight, the FTG argument requires the least amount of assumptions.
2. Tobirama never reacts to either 😭, he mentally perceives them, which isn’t impressive at all.
You would have to prove Madara saw Tobirama fight after Izuna’s death 😭
tobiraama stomps
There goes the mask off, another fanboi kid who couldn’t take it anymore of playing Tobirama fan to be cool and troll Minato fanbois to get attention but it didn’t work it’s time to suck up to Minato fanbois to get more views and subscribers. Tobirama sama doesn’t need hypocrites to give him credit it’s good thing for us real Tobirama fans to know hypocrites and loyalists.
Another virhtue banger
Thank you my man!
I personally believe that while alive tobirama wins, but while revived as Edos I think Minato wins evens in base.
Lets begin!
Let’s do it
I had to unsubscribe no way you made this video 😭 , welp we all have our opinions I don’t see why you downplayed every single tobirama feat
And I just subscribe
Downplayed, I discussed them on why I didn’t follow through them
@@Virhtue discussed horrible
@@Virhtuethe madara one about tobiramas speed referring to FTG is head canon by definition
@@ZaharJudah cab you explain at least why you think so
Tobirama may have been smarter than Minato in creating jutsu but if I recall correctly minatos battle/combat iq in the highest in the series. I don’t think tobirama is “outsmarting” him in a battle 1v1. I don’t think anyone could
It would have been a great and close fight between those 2 legendary shinobis. But as I always stated, Minato wins, probably with difficulty or even miraculously, but there is no way he could lose, he never lost to someone during his prime. Btw nice video!
Thank you my friend
He lost to 14 year old obito win he never lost in his prime. How come he didn’t sense him since he’s so strong? Sage mode but can’t sense a intruder?
@@ImPapehungry shit up hater
@@ImPapehungry Minagoat > Dumbito
@@ImPapehungry Ignore him, he's just a die hard Midnato fangay who crys everywhere.
Idk, I’ve always had the opinion that aside from chakra volume, Minato had better stats than Tobirama. But i maintain i think Tobirama would win 6/10 times against Minato with his battle IQ and fighting style.
Minato is also has a sensory ability comparable to Tobirama as he was able to sense Naruto fighting with Kurama, and this is before he tapped into KCM.
Solid point I thought about bringing that up in a senjutsu point I made in the pinned comment
Shut it... Tobirama sensory is sup than Minato... Tobirama literally sensed every person in a Long range even their ranks and they level of powers
Why do you think he based his entire statement on that one encounter? I don’t think that’s the most likely interpretation.
He’s most likely talking about movement and combat speed, and wouldn’t be more likely that he’s basing it off all the battles and not just that one moment?
I think that is based on that being the most likely assumption as there is only evidence showing a battle prior to EMS, as Madara himself stated Tobirama wasn’t a match for him
@@Virhtue understandable. I’ve always thought he was slightly faster, sharigan precog counters Tobirama by moving more effectively.
@Virhtue we also just don't even know how strong Madara and Izuna actually were at that specific time where izuna died.
They could have been under hebi sasuke or pt 1 kakashi for all we know. Or they could have been stronger than Itachi. That whole era is characters scaling to each other with nothing concrete and truly scaleable till EMS Madara fights Hashirama. It's too vague.
@@grantwilliams93 very true
Who wins: FTG duo vs Kamui duo?
He never said Minato had faster Teleportation. He said “shunshin” which is Body Flicker. Teleportation is a bad translation
I never said that😭😭
Best discussion I’ve seen on flying raîjīn in Ages man! Most impressive…
Dunno if I disagree with much of anything…
But here the winner is likely the person with more impressive brainscaling than powerscaling….
All it takes is one of the techniques used in the war and he could, if surviving the first strike and seeing the seals Maybe instantly know how to use his improved variant of FTG…
But then any Edo paperbomb clone shenanigans getting teleported through his FTG may be game over…
But can you send an Èdō tènséī animal stuck with tandem paperbombs to someone else’s kūnaî maybe even whilst they’re holding it like a reverse summoning through their seal like the round robbin or whatever multilingual wordplay is going on there hehe
I think they’re more comparable but Mínàtō died way too young…
Not being fast enough to save Kākáshí’s squad that day is what’s so sad about his kánnëbí bridge victory over…was it 1000 or so stone ninjas? Man that’s embarrassing for the stone when one dude deletes thousands… I think it’s more like fookt on sight… if you see the man in battle as an enemy you are more than lucky to remain alive…
But we never saw how abusively Tōbírámâ uses Èdō Tènséī and tandem paperbombs which the combos for that with FTG are kinda unbelievable…
All it takes is one ally getting saved with teleporting tandem paperbomb clone shenanigans and you could have tandem explosives at all the seals potentially…
Though if alive or Èdō does the chákrä cost of the explosion become a big chákrâ cost or is it lighter than a Kūnaî?
The winner is whoever is written to notice enough to know enough to use all the right moves in the right order without any foolish mistakes and I feel like Mínàtō’s willingness to try stuff and youth are why he may not be capable of knowing well enough the harsh battle expectations that a Sènjū might have especially if they’re wary because they know you’ve improved their own moves… But how fast does tobirama notice all this? Pretty quick during the war but by end they’re basically mates or even relatives… hmmmmmmm…..
I mean we all thought that one back in the day with the imaginary clan but looks that have tsunádé relative or something hair colour… but that’s granny tsūnádé theory territory isn’t it ha… he feels more like a Non Official Nephew or something… but I’m just speculating now on the lineage and quite clear talents in eachothers moves being exhibited down genetic line arguably if you count the first jūtsū in the series’ forbidden variant being how it’s tied together….
Just an idea though right? : D
Go and get PHD on theoretical physics as you the contex of FTG and wormholes are inaccurate. Ive studied this amd i can tell you that you simplified it too much so it would match Minato being faster.
Why so, I have the literal google definition for the Einstein Rosen Bridge
He lost to 14 year old obito win he never lost in his prime. How come he didn’t sense him since he’s so strong? Sage mode but can’t sense a intruder?
“Your Shunshin is even better than mine fourth!” -some guy, idk who. Probably not Tobirama
Lowkey disappointing that Tobirama lost to 20 nameless Shinobi when people like ohnoki and tsunade were rivaling 5 v3 susanoos, even though they were also exhausted 😭😭
True
@@someweirdguy delulu is the solulu I guess
Tobirama still wins tho, good video tho
I understand, it’s a good fight, what do you think gives him the edge?
Delusional
@@Virhtue nah Im jk, Minato got it due to speed as u explained but I think ppl do underrate Tobirama
@@mladen5140 Minato lost to a 14 year old kid.
@@sinner35320 s rank plus gold and silver brother minato would 100% lose to em too tf your talking about LOL
This does not differentiate between travel speed and combat speed and reaction speed at all lol.
Bro remove that pfp rn 😭 homie don't wanna be excluded from the other youtubers lmfao 😭
I have a Tobirama pfp, if anything that should show my honesty
@Virhtue nope don't lie. Just admit it. You did this video just to show the other you tubers that side w minato that your one of them come on now
Either you think minato wins or you actually read the manga right
Hey where is it stated the second raikage was murdered?
Like ch527 I think
@@Virhtue Pretty sure it just says Tobirama was in the brink not the second raikage
@@Redoren966 he died prior to the second encounter bc Gin notes Darui has the thirds lightning mark
Tobirama > Minato ✅
Incorrect
Tobirama: “Nah, I’d win”
Then proceeds to get murder stomps by the god of speed
@@PrinceAjaxsonEhhh
😭
Great video, never doubt your opinion
I appreciate that!
The sequel is out!
I suppose so!
I mean Minato Blitz the raikage
@72-96X the Speed of light 😂
loko has opps in the chat 😂
I am his main opp btw I changed my name but I am here
Me and Loko are cool and people think I hate him, I’m not gonna “destroy him”😭
28:41 isn’t this guiding thunder?
No, the only time he was going to use guiding thunder was against a TSO
LETS GOOOOOOOO
Thank you, my brother🤷♂️🤷♂️🐐🐐🐐
TALK THAT TALK
You already know
FINALLLLY…… VIRHTUE HAS COME BACK
You already know
Fuel for the algorithm
Minato stomps
@@PrinceAjaxson ? Did I say anything about the matchup? I'm just trying to help the video and the creator out lol
@@SatorisYT yes but Minato stomps right
This had a lot of hype
@@PrinceAjaxson I won't say my opinion, I'm staying away from this topic. I already have my hands full with my takes on One Punch Man scaling, I don't need to get into Naruto debates too 😅
I'll say at first I believed Minato stomped in my early days, then I believed Tobirama stomped after getting into his arguments, then I believed it was a close battle that could go either way for a little while before going back to the Tobirama side. Now I'm honestly indifferent. It's been discussed so much and there are so many arguments and debunks from so many people going around that I've kind of lost interest.
I will say I think this is a good video.
Massive W Minato stomps tobirama neg diff
😂
Would say negative dif but I suppose
@@Virhtue you would say negative diff??
@@IamFromBeyond_Bruh keeps showing his fatherless behavior everywhere.😂
Minato straight up curbstomps Tobirama. They are not comparable.
because you said so?
@@fbafoundationalbuck-broken6011 No, because it's a manga/databook fact
@@newfolder6137 what are you crying about? and data books been inaccurate for decades.
@@fbafoundationalbuck-broken6011 again, you want to take it from the databook or from the manga, the conclusion is the same, Minato is way above the likes of Tobirama lol
@@newfolder6137 manga never said Minato is stronger than tobirama, you got your own fanfiction you are trying to past off as fact.
I disagree with the outcome and think that Alive Tobirama beats Alive Minato but KCM Minato wins imo. I still see where you’re coming from tho. Good job.
Well, I understand I think it’s close, a good fight fa
Alive tobirama over hokage minato and probaly sage minato but kcm minato over tobirama
Why
This is #2, #1 is Itachi v Pain
I have a video on that aswell
@@Virhtue I’ll check it out! I enjoy your videos man
2024 and this is still a topic? Lol Minato negs.
Lol
Loko is a terrible youtuber
Who told you that? Was it one of your two subs?
@@KolaTheBear r u deadass? I dont post💀😂 tf i couldn’t care less about my subs this is the dumbest comment ive ever read in my life
Loko is a good guy, getting his bag, wish him the best
Yeah
Gotta be real here, I am always happy when someone puts Tobirama over Minato, since Tobirama is one of my favorite characters and I always thought that Minato was kind of annoying. In the way, that while reading/Watching the story, to me it felt in the war arc, that Kishimoto just retroactively buffed Minato to remain in the "powerful father figure" Position. While Tobirama to me felt more like he was there to hype up Hashirama in a sense, since it felt like whenever Tobirama was shown to be impressive, Hashirama was just either shown or mentioned to be superior. Which is annoying me as well since it didn´t make sense in character to me that Tobirama didn´t even attempt to research or attain Sage Mode, even tho Hashirama became the most powerful Shinobi of his time with it and as the Super Smart Creator of all shit it would only make sense for him to research it as well, since we know he definitely knew about Sage Mode and Sage Chakra, but again, I feel like both Senju brothers whipping out Sage mode would have made Hashirma less impressive.
TL:DR Fuck Minato, but sadly I can´t really argue against him being stronger.
It is still a great fight and Tobirama is very powerful and I want to put him in a more positive versus match in the future
@@Virhtuealive tobirama would destroy alive Minato. He doesn’t have kcm. Only reason he was abt to use it was because of edo and naruto befriending the kyuubi. Y’all over hype him so much it’s ridiculous. He lost to 14 year old obito. Tobirama would have killed obito that night.
Minato is basically buffed like that because he's narutos dad, if he was sasukes dad or irukas he would be fodder😂
War arc garra vs akatsuki (or adult garra)
War Arc Gaara could tangle with the top ones, couldn’t solo them all and Adult Gaara beats all the akatsuki at once
@@Virhtue so war ark garra beats Kisame is what you’re saying 😏
Tobirama tried to steal ftg 2 and got bodied
He'd rather die than steal lol. He is egoist
He pretty much always had FTG 2, he just never consider FTG 1 and FTG 2 to be different.
Awesome video “dumb troglodyte”😂😂you have the best shit talk🔥
what is your opinion on tobirama vs itachi? Tobirama beat izuna which to me izunas highest interpretation= end of 5kage summit susuke.
Itachi should be the strongest ms user out of anybody bc the susanoo is fully developed with 2 spirit weapons
Bro just yapped for 46 minutes...L video
Goated take
Pause pause pause😂😂😂
Hashirama’s wood😭😭
A horrible take damn what a downfall
He has woke up to the truth
@@PrinceAjaxson no he didn't
Cope harder
@@akiraman7664You disagreeing doesn't change a damn thing
@@PrinceAjaxson well the same goes for him and you saying minato wins doesn't change anything calm down
All I heard was fax, loko is about to cry 😂😂😂
Me and Loko are cool
One is hashiramas blood brother who share the same genes and heritage and training .....and the other is just a knock off whos demon posessed. Lets be real. Tobirama Wins