A vapor barrier isn't to prevent air and moisture from coming in from the outside. It's designed to prevent warm, moist, inside air from condensing inside your walls when it's cold outside and creating a wet mess.
Different in hot humid Florida where it's hot and humid most of the year and air conditioned inside. The vapor barrier is installed on the exterior so the insulation doesn't get wet.
Here in Cincinnati, Ohio we get hit with a temperature range of nearly 100 degrees over the year and we also have high humidity in spring/summer/fall. Years ago, everybody installed vapor barriers on the interiors as recommended but we're seeing issues. Moisture from inside of the house stops dead at the vapor barrier (Good) but, over time, starts to corrode the dry wall fasteners which then stain though the latex wall paint (Bad). Then there are mold issues on the back side of the drywall. Installing a good vapor barrier demands the inside air remains dry which is a problem in the older 3 Bedroom Brick veneer ranches with gas appliances and dinky exhaust fans in the kitchen and bath. Hanging up laundry in laundry rooms during the winter is a no-no because all of the water in the clothes has to go somewhere. People running furnace humidifiers in the winter pump the moisture into the air and it has nowhere to go except condense at the interior vapor barriers. I've seen sweat running down walls during the preparation for Thanksgiving dinners with all of the cooking and insufficient exhaust with vapor barriered walls.
I live in SoCal and was wondering... wouldn't a paper back insultation work as well in creating a vapor barrier? For instance the backing on Owens Corning Kraft back R13 is supposed to act as a vapor barrier as well. But... in my case being in SoCal... would I even need a vapor barrier? Due to pipe burst, I had to replace the subflooring and re-insulate the walls. The one side of my bathroom wall initially had one large sheet of kraft type paper vapor barrier covering the insulation and was attached to the 2x4's with adhesive. Am now in the process of putting in the new insulation (Owens Corning Kraft Back R13 as mentioned before). But after watching this video, I'm wondering if should instead be using an entire sheet of plastic for the vapor barrier.
@@RJMoser In this area, the paper faced insulation has an applied, black material that not only attaches the pink fiberglass to the paper but acts a vapor barrier... of sorts. The "dirty little secret" is that this stuff fits well in cavities exactly 16" on centers but nothing else. So when you slice it down the thicker staple edge is just on one side. Trying to get this stuff to fit the odd sized cavities is an exercise in futility. Drywall hangers HATE insulators who staple the paper to the outside of the studs. It's less than ideal. A lot of people are going to spray-on cellulose with additives for fire/insect/mold prevention. A friend just had his pole barn shop/garage done this way with a plastic vapor barrier but he's using in-slab heating. Really, the best thing is to invest a bit in a good hygrometer and see what the actual humidity is within the dwelling for your area and compare to the usual outdoor humidity. Today, the weather report says 34% but my basement hygrometers (2 of them) put it about 65% in the basement. Check your building codes for your area.
@@mcgeorgerl Ty for the quick reply. Installing drywall in my small bathroom would be cost prohibitive (having to pay for the installers and everything) which is why I'm hanging wood sheathing instead. Anyways, I've decide to apply a vapor barrier. I am curious though... if drywall installers don't care for staples on the outside of the studs... wouldn't they also be dismayed with staples on the outside of studs holding up the vapor barrier? Just a thought. Thnx again from SoCal.
If you use AC in the summer, any moisture in the wall cavity will condense on the interior side of that plastic. You really should be using something like intello or Siga Majrex with their tapes. That allows the wall to dry to the inside without allowing air to move in and out of the assembly.
I had an in-depth conversation with the person who wrote the code plastic is not req at all they added it to the code as a reference of its permeability. Sheetrock prime n paint fall well within the perm req for any house. Plastic traps moisture
Great video! For a concrete basement bathroom, the bottom half of the wall height is below grad. Someone told me to put a plastic barrie on the concrete wall and then insulation and plastic barrier on top of insulation. There are pipes and drain pipes on that wall. Can this method cause issues or it’s a right thing to do? Thank you.
@@jonathangwynne1917 Fiberglass IS nasty, everyone knows this. But I didn't say "fiberglass", I said "insulation". Not all insulation is made from fiberglass anymore. Which is why it is safe to use without a respirator or sleeves. Pink SPECIFICALLY made this new insulation to be safe to use without protection. Which was my whole point.
Thank you!!! Very helpful. I have a question. There is paper faced insulation in my walls that we're working on. Do you recommend still putting up plastic as barrier? Thank you!
Hmm- first time builder- watching all videos.. Why vapor barrier ceiling? Yes f there is a leak the water pools right? Wouldn’t you rather find the leak then patch then replace all materials.. couldn’t imagine having to remove insulation that would have been fine but now is water logged because the vapor barrier moved the leak source… wondering if this happens… debating not vapor Barrie ring the ceiling and just going with solid foam … thoughts..
Hi Guys! I'm a newbie DIY Wall Student in L.A. about to fix a 24 inch square section in my ceiling (and a big rectangular section of drip stained wall) from a bad leak that was on our apartment rooftop. The outside roof leak is almost repaired (for the 5th time), and I'm getting a bunch of ideas from the comments below with the plastic "Vapor Barrier" application. After noticing each Comment below had a *_major_*_ _*_caution_* for using sealing the wall with plastic, I'm getting a *ZEN* Idea to simply overly my plastic in horizontal rows that overlap over each other. This "vented attempt" would *theoretically* stop dripping (or running water), from another failed rooftop fix, from soaking into my wall (especially my rectangle wall repair).
Just use an air barrier that lets vapor pass like Intello Plus and you won't have an issue. Venting is not a solution, you want an air barrier. Carefully done painted drywall could serve that function as well...
depends on the climate, in a cold climate you want the barrier on the inside of the house to prevent moisture going from inside the building and condensing on the walls as its hooter inside the house than outside
@@guoxuxing6407 thats a very common myth, they're fine to touch and don't make you itchy... also its safe to breathe in since the fibers are no smaller than dust in a room, or fibers coming off from your shirt, so your lungs don't have any problem filtering it out. Not like asbestos where the fibers are so small they enlodge into your lungs
This just doesnt make sense to me!, the plastic barrier should go against the wall first otherwise the insulation risks getting damp from any penetratiing damp (as I've found out) my insulation was wet and going mouldy. Ive since stapled the plastic membrane to the ceiling baton and left it hanging. I then made a wooden frame to fit the wall, screwed it to the ceiling baton, then the floor batton, it's very sturdy. Using this method Ive not compromised the vapour barrier, I then inserted my insulation which will not get damp. I then overlayed the insulation with a breathable membrane (the stuff usually used before tiling a roof)I then plasterboarded the walls. My out building is now insulated/sound proofed and protected against penetrating damp onto my insulation fill.
As a contractor/ Architect technician you should do sone research because you provide some false/ incorrect information about vapor barriers. One thing you need to know, it’s better to not have a vapor barrier than have one in the wrong place : Mold Vapor barriers are use under a concrete slab , crawl space floor. Otherwise you need a vapor retarders. Avoid plastic vapor (6mil) barrier inside wall/ celling assembly or roof.
you are wrong. in cold climates you use the vapor barrier on the inside so that moisture doesnt build up inside the building and cause mold problems down the road (think of condensation on a car window). Source: I was an insulator for 2 years in B.C. Canada, and that's the code set by our government. You cannot put it on the outside or else you will fail the inspection.
You'd be better off with a smart vapor retarder that blocks air and lets the wall dry. That should pass inspection in Canada (also Canada has a variety of climates, which one are you referring to?)
@@rsmith02 It's certainly building code in Ontario and all of Canada is cold climate with freezing temperatures at some point during the year so I'd be surprised if it's not required in all provinces. If you don't put vapor barrier then humid air getting in into the walls will be a problem in the winter. In a humid climate where you constantly run AC, like the southern US say, you would want it the other way around.
A vapor barrier isn't to prevent air and moisture from coming in from the outside. It's designed to prevent warm, moist, inside air from condensing inside your walls when it's cold outside and creating a wet mess.
Different in hot humid Florida where it's hot and humid most of the year and air conditioned inside. The vapor barrier is installed on the exterior so the insulation doesn't get wet.
Here in Cincinnati, Ohio we get hit with a temperature range of nearly 100 degrees over the year and we also have high humidity in spring/summer/fall. Years ago, everybody installed vapor barriers on the interiors as recommended but we're seeing issues. Moisture from inside of the house stops dead at the vapor barrier (Good) but, over time, starts to corrode the dry wall fasteners which then stain though the latex wall paint (Bad). Then there are mold issues on the back side of the drywall. Installing a good vapor barrier demands the inside air remains dry which is a problem in the older 3 Bedroom Brick veneer ranches with gas appliances and dinky exhaust fans in the kitchen and bath. Hanging up laundry in laundry rooms during the winter is a no-no because all of the water in the clothes has to go somewhere. People running furnace humidifiers in the winter pump the moisture into the air and it has nowhere to go except condense at the interior vapor barriers. I've seen sweat running down walls during the preparation for Thanksgiving dinners with all of the cooking and insufficient exhaust with vapor barriered walls.
I live in SoCal and was wondering... wouldn't a paper back insultation work as well in creating a vapor barrier? For instance the backing on Owens Corning Kraft back R13 is supposed to act as a vapor barrier as well. But... in my case being in SoCal... would I even need a vapor barrier? Due to pipe burst, I had to replace the subflooring and re-insulate the walls. The one side of my bathroom wall initially had one large sheet of kraft type paper vapor barrier covering the insulation and was attached to the 2x4's with adhesive. Am now in the process of putting in the new insulation (Owens Corning Kraft Back R13 as mentioned before). But after watching this video, I'm wondering if should instead be using an entire sheet of plastic for the vapor barrier.
@@RJMoser In this area, the paper faced insulation has an applied, black material that not only attaches the pink fiberglass to the paper but acts a vapor barrier... of sorts. The "dirty little secret" is that this stuff fits well in cavities exactly 16" on centers but nothing else. So when you slice it down the thicker staple edge is just on one side. Trying to get this stuff to fit the odd sized cavities is an exercise in futility. Drywall hangers HATE insulators who staple the paper to the outside of the studs. It's less than ideal. A lot of people are going to spray-on cellulose with additives for fire/insect/mold prevention. A friend just had his pole barn shop/garage done this way with a plastic vapor barrier but he's using in-slab heating. Really, the best thing is to invest a bit in a good hygrometer and see what the actual humidity is within the dwelling for your area and compare to the usual outdoor humidity. Today, the weather report says 34% but my basement hygrometers (2 of them) put it about 65% in the basement. Check your building codes for your area.
@@mcgeorgerl Ty for the quick reply. Installing drywall in my small bathroom would be cost prohibitive (having to pay for the installers and everything) which is why I'm hanging wood sheathing instead. Anyways, I've decide to apply a vapor barrier. I am curious though... if drywall installers don't care for staples on the outside of the studs... wouldn't they also be dismayed with staples on the outside of studs holding up the vapor barrier? Just a thought. Thnx again from SoCal.
I'm just finishing somthing like this ,By code I had to use blue tuck inside and red outside ,I also just used tuck tape around windows and doors
Interesting. I didn’t realize there were two colours
I like the idea
@tatonkatatonka I was warned by our first contractors to use the right colors in Ontario the red inside would fail inspection.
What is tuck tape?
If you use AC in the summer, any moisture in the wall cavity will condense on the interior side of that plastic. You really should be using something like intello or Siga Majrex with their tapes. That allows the wall to dry to the inside without allowing air to move in and out of the assembly.
Totally agree, I used Intello Plus here as it lets humidity pass (diffusion) while blocking air.
I had an in-depth conversation with the person who wrote the code plastic is not req at all they added it to the code as a reference of its permeability. Sheetrock prime n paint fall well within the perm req for any house. Plastic traps moisture
Great video!
For a concrete basement bathroom, the bottom half of the wall height is below grad. Someone told me to put a plastic barrie on the concrete wall and then insulation and plastic barrier on top of insulation. There are pipes and drain pipes on that wall. Can this method cause issues or it’s a right thing to do? Thank you.
Sir, I think it’s safer to wear a mask and gloves when working with insulation. Please be safe
The new versions of pink insulation are safe to install without gloves or a mask.
@@farvasstache6532, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Fiberglass threads are nasty to touch or inhale.
@@jonathangwynne1917 Fiberglass IS nasty, everyone knows this. But I didn't say "fiberglass", I said "insulation". Not all insulation is made from fiberglass anymore. Which is why it is safe to use without a respirator or sleeves. Pink SPECIFICALLY made this new insulation to be safe to use without protection. Which was my whole point.
@@farvasstache6532 , is the pink stuff fiberglass?
@@jonathangwynne1917yes
I found this to definitely be helpful!
Great job.
With Faced insulation, I should not need the vapor barrier right?
Merci pour la vidéo. Je l'ai trouvé informative!
Thank you!!! Very helpful.
I have a question. There is paper faced insulation in my walls that we're working on. Do you recommend still putting up plastic as barrier?
Thank you!
Definitely not
Do not do that unless you want a major mold problem
Thank you. I had a question about the staples in the stud. So I guess I put more than needed in my studs! Around 4 by stud. It is ok?
Probably about 6 inches with plastic poly. And about 3 inches with using netting for blow in insulation.
Only need a tac every seem on the sheets of Polly there are like lines that go down those are your guidelines
Hmm- first time builder- watching all videos..
Why vapor barrier ceiling? Yes f there is a leak the water pools right? Wouldn’t you rather find the leak then patch then replace all materials.. couldn’t imagine having to remove insulation that would have been fine but now is water logged because the vapor barrier moved the leak source… wondering if this happens… debating not vapor Barrie ring the ceiling and just going with solid foam … thoughts..
Yeah this is wrong on so many levels
The vapor barrier is to keep warm moist air from entering a cold ventilated attic.
Thank you! Very easy to understand.❤
Super helpful and concise!
Do I have to staple everywhere if I'm going to screw drywall over it anyways, won't screwing in the drywall do that? Thx in advance
Before i put insulation, should i warm and melt and dry up frozen condensation? Or will it fix itself?
I don’t know much. Thinking you should get rid of all moisture
Enjoy your project
@@tatonkatatonka thank you
Thank you
how does the batt stay up with slanted ceilings? wont it fall out of the cavity?
Put a nail through it lol
You use staples on the paper backing
Friction fit
What worked for me was to drive tiny trim nails into the framing to act as cleats to hold my unfaced batts when they didn't stay put
Great the bobbsey twins. Bet they are both on the household answering machine with music also.
I believe in PPE priority phillyoma is not a joke lung cancer is not a joke was not regulated in the past but now it is
Breading ground for mold
"Breeding"
@@derekparisian2023 he said what he sad bro 😒
What is breading ground? Crumbs?
You didnt mention which climate zone you are in. Zone 1,2,3 vapor barrier is like asking for mold
Where can i find this acoustic seal? Cant find it anywhere
Home depot
You just failed inspection in BC, the seams have to be over a stud, not over mid air.
Agree with Marty. Regardless of the debate on vapor barrier, Probably helps if you fully understand bwfore you make a video. Nice stocking caps though
Lol
Hi Guys! I'm a newbie DIY Wall Student in L.A. about to fix a 24 inch square section in my ceiling (and a big rectangular section of drip stained wall) from a bad leak that was on our apartment rooftop. The outside roof leak is almost repaired (for the 5th time), and I'm getting a bunch of ideas from the comments below with the plastic "Vapor Barrier" application. After noticing each Comment below had a *_major_*_ _*_caution_* for using sealing the wall with plastic, I'm getting a *ZEN* Idea to simply overly my plastic in horizontal rows that overlap over each other. This "vented attempt" would *theoretically* stop dripping (or running water), from another failed rooftop fix, from soaking into my wall (especially my rectangle wall repair).
Just use an air barrier that lets vapor pass like Intello Plus and you won't have an issue. Venting is not a solution, you want an air barrier. Carefully done painted drywall could serve that function as well...
Fyi, Rockwool's comfort batt is rated at R-14 at 3.5" thickness
Summer time with AC blasting inside… condensation/ humidity will happen inside the wall.
Having a vapor barrier is controversial. I think that just causes the wall not to breath and causes mold
The vapor barrier goes before the insulation
depends on the climate, in a cold climate you want the barrier on the inside of the house to prevent moisture going from inside the building and condensing on the walls as its hooter inside the house than outside
@@louis263 You have a Hooter inside your house?
Handling fibreglass batts without wearing a mask and gloves?! Very unhealthy I think.
yeah i was shocked by that. never touch it with bare hands. ouch
@@guoxuxing6407 thats a very common myth, they're fine to touch and don't make you itchy... also its safe to breathe in since the fibers are no smaller than dust in a room, or fibers coming off from your shirt, so your lungs don't have any problem filtering it out. Not like asbestos where the fibers are so small they enlodge into your lungs
@@mr.hedgehog420 Not a myth I had terrible reactions to it
@@Daniel-ef7nk I guess it depends if you have a sensitivity to it, i've been an insulator for 3 years never had a reaction
It's not dangerous, just itchy as the glass breaks easily.
you gotta staple into the seal or you're just creating holes in your vapor barrier. this was not helpful or correct.
An air gap and a membrane on back of studs, doesn't hurt
This just doesnt make sense to me!, the plastic barrier should go against the wall first otherwise the insulation risks getting damp from any penetratiing damp (as I've found out) my insulation was wet and going mouldy. Ive since stapled the plastic membrane to the ceiling baton and left it hanging. I then made a wooden frame to fit the wall, screwed it to the ceiling baton, then the floor batton, it's very sturdy. Using this method Ive not compromised the vapour barrier, I then inserted my insulation which will not get damp. I then overlayed the insulation with a breathable membrane (the stuff usually used before tiling a roof)I then plasterboarded the walls. My out building is now insulated/sound proofed and protected against penetrating damp onto my insulation fill.
R,12. R, 13 R,15 R, 19 WILL ALL WORK IN A 2×4 WALL AND NOT JUST R,12
that shit ruined my house lol in quebec
As a contractor/ Architect technician you should do sone research because you provide some false/ incorrect information about vapor barriers.
One thing you need to know, it’s better to not have a vapor barrier than have one in the wrong place : Mold
Vapor barriers are use under a concrete slab , crawl space floor.
Otherwise you need a vapor retarders. Avoid plastic vapor (6mil) barrier inside wall/ celling assembly or roof.
Guys .. lol you didn't show the installation on the vapour barrier. 😂 Wtf
Rookies
That's going to be a mold disaster in about a year
Bruhhh. No gloves or mask while handing the insulation?
Not helpful. You should have shown from concrete. Here you already have frame done. So its confusing
no gloves?
Who wears gloves in the summertime?
Bro didn’t teach us anything 😂
wrong
so basically you didnt show us anything except how to cut out a window, wheres the how to part for installing the vapor barrier. Thumbs down.
Open your eyes; watch it again. The plastic is the vapor barrier ace!
@@drpdrp6422 Sorry my brother was on a trolling rampage using my account.
This is so wrong. You are trapping any residual humidity and moisture in your insulation and walls. Vapor barrier should be on the exterior only!
you are wrong. in cold climates you use the vapor barrier on the inside so that moisture doesnt build up inside the building and cause mold problems down the road (think of condensation on a car window). Source: I was an insulator for 2 years in B.C. Canada, and that's the code set by our government. You cannot put it on the outside or else you will fail the inspection.
not in Canada, code requires it
Yup. It’s code because it prevents indoor moisture from getting in the walls and causing mold.
You'd be better off with a smart vapor retarder that blocks air and lets the wall dry. That should pass inspection in Canada (also Canada has a variety of climates, which one are you referring to?)
@@rsmith02 It's certainly building code in Ontario and all of Canada is cold climate with freezing temperatures at some point during the year so I'd be surprised if it's not required in all provinces. If you don't put vapor barrier then humid air getting in into the walls will be a problem in the winter. In a humid climate where you constantly run AC, like the southern US say, you would want it the other way around.