Looks like battle outcome here comes down to distance. Closer distances favor the Chaingunner since the high rate of fire from the hordes greatly increases the chance of triggering the Cyberdemon's pain state, despite it typically being quite low at around 5%. Far distance, the Chaingunner's attacks become less accurate and favor the Cyberdemon since its rockets can easily take out a couple Chaingunners clustered together. The aggressive attacking of Nightmare difficulty actually works against the Chaingunners for the larger battle arena here since they get too focused on attacking instead of trying to get in closer to better connect with their attacks.
Actually, placing the Chaingunners too far away from the Cyberdemons renders them useless. Their hitscan attack has a limited range (2048 units), unlike the Cyberdemon's rockets which have infinite range. That's exactly why in the video the Cyberdemons can just take their time and kill every Chaingunner, one by one, until there's no one left standing. They will never get hit, no matter how much they are getting shot at, and they can simply stand back, take a Chaingunner down, target another, and repeat the process all over again until they are the only ones left alive. Just like you said, Nightmare difficulty works against them when placed in larger arenas, where they are very likely to be further than 2048 units away from their target, and also because once they started attacking, they will not stop, unless their target is out of sight or dead, or their pain chance gets triggered, and they will never cross the 2048 unit line so their attacks can connect, unlike Zombiemen and Shotgunners, which pause for a brief moment after attacking, giving them time to close in on their target.
Ironically in this instance the chaingunners high chance to induce a pain state actually works against them. Since it will interupt the Cyberdemons 3 rocket chain and allow it to retarget a new enemy, since it only needs 1 rocket per chaingunner.
I'm glad to see you're arranging the hit-scanners so they shoot each other less often. When I made my own version of this I put them in clusters around the arena.
This one's a bit flawed, as 50 Chaingunners win on UV but lose on Nightmare. It's not because of power (the relative power is much higher for a Chaingunner), but distance, which is created simply because the 50 Chaingunners don't fit in the regular area and fire constantly over max range. On UV they approach, allowing them to win. Instructive, nonetheless.
One of the big things about DooM's AI is that monsters don't check if they actually hit their target when they fire, which really works against monsters like chaingunners, spider masterminds and arachnotrons that just never stop firing once they think the target is in sight.
That's kinda just how Nightmare works. It's why Archviles are so much less threatening on Nightmare as compared to UV too, because they will attack instantly almost every time, meaning they're super easy to just blast with rockets on Nightmare as opposed to UV where they run around a whole lot more.
It seems that in GZDoom compatibility settings hitscan range checks are vanilla, so if the cybers stay 2048 (I believe) units away, they won't get shot.
I like these videos. You should also feature more games, but I really can't tell what else we have with such a complex monster buildup and so many options utilize.
Ultra-Violence - Cyberdemon defeats 30 Chaingunners, but loses to 50. This makes sense. Nightmare - Cyberdemon defeats 50 Chaingunners, but loses to 30. WHAT SORCERY IS THIS?!
Maximum range for hitscan is what this sorcery is. Past 2048 map units distance, no hitscanner can hit anything. The bullets just vanish past that point. Just for reference, your fist has a range of 64 units in Doom, so 2048 units *really* isn't all that much.
@@Tyrian3k I've played a lot of DoomRL (I encourage any Doom fan, or gaming fan, to try it) so I imagine it like a grid of squares. If melee range is 64 units and I imagine that to be the size of a square (or tile) then that puts hitscan range to 32 tiles.... which seems pretty far, to be honest. Regardless, I'm still not really sure how that explains what happened. Did the force of 50 Chaingunners push the Cyberdemon out of range?
Nightmare difficulty raises the aggression of enemies to constantly attack enemies. This unfortunately has the setback of making it so the AI of Chaingunners can't discern if their attacks are actually connecting on their target as the Cyberdemon is still in its sight thus continuing to aggressively fire.
@@Moleoflands oh nice to know. I was think about creating a mod but I needed to somehow assign alliances, enemy teams, and the possibility that enemies can't be hostile to the player. I guess a programmer can do that?
This is why the chaingunner might be the single deadliest enemy in doom. On top of being one enemy that won't stop firing until you are dead or out of their line of sight, they're hit scanners. Id rather face off with a few cyberdemons than chaingunners placed well up high. At least a cyberdemon is a nice large target.
I’ve noticed that in a lot of these fights it comes down to 2 things. How fast the enemy can attack vs. the other enemy and how smart the AI is. In any fight where the “lesser” enemy (in numbers) concentrates fire they lose. If the cyber demons spread out their rockets each shot they’d probably manage to kill things every single time, but I see them constantly spam 3-4 rockets in the exact same spot, and it only really takes one. Not only does this not spread around damage fast enough, but the other enemies are constantly hitting them while they’re finishing their volley which is hitting mostly empty space. This has them taking dozens of extra shots each time and is usually their downfall.
The fact that the cyber demon will keep targeting the same chain gunner until he dies coupled with the slow projectile speed is what causes chain gunners to have a chance. Imagine if he just targeted one rocket per chain gunner instead.
The Cyberdemon's biggest weakness in this sort of contest is its need to fire rockets in bursts of three. Early on, it's not that much of a problem, since the Chaingunners are close together, but once the herd has been thinned, it's a waste of time to fire a full three-rocket volley at a single Chaingunner. I could definitely see the Chaingunners winning more often if they were spread out a lot more.
It looks like at some range the chaingunner's weapon no longer does any damage. All the Cyberdemon has to do is get too far away and it can't lose since the chaingunners never move.
I like how most of the rockets fired are hitting the Wall 🧱 The cyberdemon fires somewhere between 2 and 7 rockets at one single target every time. Such a waste.
Funny how the Cyber wins at extreme long range (bullets mostly miss), and close range (splash damage and friendly fire). But at medium range, takes the most damage.
Range is everything. In the middle rounds the cyber demon walks on UV - straight to his death. On nightmare he stands. Then of course in the last round they were much closer and the cybers were meat.
This battle came down to distance. Had the chain gutters moved closer in range on nightmare? The Cyber demon would have most likely been easily defeated
A big problem here is something i see analyzed on aoe sometimes, the " overkill " when you need 10 archers to oneshot somethin, but you use 15, there are 5 archers beimg useless and wasting times, in this case, there cyberdemon would onehit any changunner, but he shot the rockets on velleys of 3 or 5, but at the same target, if he would actually shot on and the next to other targets, he would win constantly i think
Cyberdemon doesnt need difficulty he can one hit them in any difficulty. Difficulty only favors the chaingunner because it can increase their base damage and fire rate. Unless the cyberdemon just stand and shoot the goddamn rockets relentlessly
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Love how the chaingunners go from killing each other on UV to becoming a firing squad on nightmare
work harder not smarter
Looks like battle outcome here comes down to distance. Closer distances favor the Chaingunner since the high rate of fire from the hordes greatly increases the chance of triggering the Cyberdemon's pain state, despite it typically being quite low at around 5%. Far distance, the Chaingunner's attacks become less accurate and favor the Cyberdemon since its rockets can easily take out a couple Chaingunners clustered together. The aggressive attacking of Nightmare difficulty actually works against the Chaingunners for the larger battle arena here since they get too focused on attacking instead of trying to get in closer to better connect with their attacks.
I love how you wrote a whole paper on something that everyone can see.
Actually, placing the Chaingunners too far away from the Cyberdemons renders them useless. Their hitscan attack has a limited range (2048 units), unlike the Cyberdemon's rockets which have infinite range.
That's exactly why in the video the Cyberdemons can just take their time and kill every Chaingunner, one by one, until there's no one left standing. They will never get hit, no matter how much they are getting shot at, and they can simply stand back, take a Chaingunner down, target another, and repeat the process all over again until they are the only ones left alive.
Just like you said, Nightmare difficulty works against them when placed in larger arenas, where they are very likely to be further than 2048 units away from their target, and also because once they started attacking, they will not stop, unless their target is out of sight or dead, or their pain chance gets triggered, and they will never cross the 2048 unit line so their attacks can connect, unlike Zombiemen and Shotgunners, which pause for a brief moment after attacking, giving them time to close in on their target.
Another issue is that the Cyberdemon fires in volleys of three, so they pause before acquiring another target.
@@shtegg Dang, y'all are writing a college thesis on npc infighting. I'm sure your professors will be very proud.
But actually, more simpler version: The battle outcome here comes down to RNG
nightmare cyberdemon: red screen gaming
I envy Speedrunners that manage to know when theyre allive or dead with red Screen
We asked these cyberdemons to play plutonia.
Ironically in this instance the chaingunners high chance to induce a pain state actually works against them. Since it will interupt the Cyberdemons 3 rocket chain and allow it to retarget a new enemy, since it only needs 1 rocket per chaingunner.
I'm glad to see you're arranging the hit-scanners so they shoot each other less often. When I made my own version of this I put them in clusters around the arena.
Dont stop doing those great videos!
This one's a bit flawed, as 50 Chaingunners win on UV but lose on Nightmare. It's not because of power (the relative power is much higher for a Chaingunner), but distance, which is created simply because the 50 Chaingunners don't fit in the regular area and fire constantly over max range. On UV they approach, allowing them to win. Instructive, nonetheless.
One of the big things about DooM's AI is that monsters don't check if they actually hit their target when they fire, which really works against monsters like chaingunners, spider masterminds and arachnotrons that just never stop firing once they think the target is in sight.
@@summersmashhit9177 at least aracnos have unlimited range
Could it also be possible that some of them are out of range entirely?
That's kinda just how Nightmare works. It's why Archviles are so much less threatening on Nightmare as compared to UV too, because they will attack instantly almost every time, meaning they're super easy to just blast with rockets on Nightmare as opposed to UV where they run around a whole lot more.
0:36 RDR 1 ending
It seems that in GZDoom compatibility settings hitscan range checks are vanilla, so if the cybers stay 2048 (I believe) units away, they won't get shot.
That is correct. From what I remember, for longer distances, you need a custom function.
Ha ha what a great channel this is, by discovering this channel I feel like I've struck gold, this channel is a true treasure.
Wicked! This is the sort of channel i sub before even watching videos because i just know its exactly what I'd binge watch 😂😂
Def improving in these battle vids, more detail and being more exact, awesome!
The problem here is the cyberdemon only focuses on one target for three or six missiles.
Yes, in the round with 3 cyberdemons they shooted like 20 rockets or more to kill 2 or 3 chaingunners, it´s a overkill.
Yeah. It never trained to kill multiple marines
He's more of a duelist. a volley of 3 rockets are used to track and trap a single moving target.
Seems like them putting the CD in pain state in Nightmare only made it more deadly allowing it to re-aim early, love this stuff.
The sound transition is epic xD 2:17
I like these videos. You should also feature more games, but I really can't tell what else we have with such a complex monster buildup and so many options utilize.
Ultra-Violence - Cyberdemon defeats 30 Chaingunners, but loses to 50.
This makes sense.
Nightmare - Cyberdemon defeats 50 Chaingunners, but loses to 30.
WHAT SORCERY IS THIS?!
Maximum range for hitscan is what this sorcery is. Past 2048 map units distance, no hitscanner can hit anything. The bullets just vanish past that point. Just for reference, your fist has a range of 64 units in Doom, so 2048 units *really* isn't all that much.
@@Tyrian3k I've played a lot of DoomRL (I encourage any Doom fan, or gaming fan, to try it) so I imagine it like a grid of squares. If melee range is 64 units and I imagine that to be the size of a square (or tile) then that puts hitscan range to 32 tiles.... which seems pretty far, to be honest.
Regardless, I'm still not really sure how that explains what happened. Did the force of 50 Chaingunners push the Cyberdemon out of range?
I think there's an issue on this one. The arena is too big, so sometimes the cybies are out of hitscan range, but the chaingunners will still shoot
Nightmare difficulty raises the aggression of enemies to constantly attack enemies. This unfortunately has the setback of making it so the AI of Chaingunners can't discern if their attacks are actually connecting on their target as the Cyberdemon is still in its sight thus continuing to aggressively fire.
@@ggn3 precisely
Chaingunners really are the meanest bastards in Doom. Though it is satisfying to watch the Cybers take them out systematically in Nightmare stats.
By the time a cyber gets down to under 100 health it must weigh twice as much with all the buried lead
Hey you did the battle I requested, thanks!
The real title for chaingunner videos is "X Chaingunners vs X Chaingunners, the winners fight Monster Y".
I like how the pain chance HELPS the Cyberdemon by interrupting his 3 rocket barrage so he can focus on another target.
1:04 That’s a real decino Moment
How do you make monsters immeditely infight? Is it possible to assign "factions" to them?
You can add a 'hate type' command. So they treat them like a player
@@Moleoflands oh nice to know. I was think about creating a mod but I needed to somehow assign alliances, enemy teams, and the possibility that enemies can't be hostile to the player. I guess a programmer can do that?
Future doom tournaments?
Never thought id feel sorry for a Cyberdemon lol
Why are the Cyderdemon's volleys straight lines? He normally varies his shots.
When selecting monster number are you trying to predict the most even match
Weird, unexpected events from round 2 because of distance.
The execution of cyberdemon.
This is why the chaingunner might be the single deadliest enemy in doom. On top of being one enemy that won't stop firing until you are dead or out of their line of sight, they're hit scanners. Id rather face off with a few cyberdemons than chaingunners placed well up high. At least a cyberdemon is a nice large target.
I lol'd @ Cyberdemon launching rockets which are sideways
This is my favorite sport
The Cyberdemon actually got pushed out of the Chaingunners' effective range by the Chaingunners' fire.
Cyberdemons and heavy weapon dudes are dangerous.
I’ve noticed that in a lot of these fights it comes down to 2 things. How fast the enemy can attack vs. the other enemy and how smart the AI is. In any fight where the “lesser” enemy (in numbers) concentrates fire they lose.
If the cyber demons spread out their rockets each shot they’d probably manage to kill things every single time, but I see them constantly spam 3-4 rockets in the exact same spot, and it only really takes one. Not only does this not spread around damage fast enough, but the other enemies are constantly hitting them while they’re finishing their volley which is hitting mostly empty space.
This has them taking dozens of extra shots each time and is usually their downfall.
The fact that the cyber demon will keep targeting the same chain gunner until he dies coupled with the slow projectile speed is what causes chain gunners to have a chance. Imagine if he just targeted one rocket per chain gunner instead.
Wait a second, why does the cyberdemon slightly move back at NM? Does the minigun have a special ability to repel so large enemy?
Great Combat
That nightmare fuel.
How many rockets were injured int he making of this video
Gotta redo this one, vast amount of chaingunners were out of range and basically weren't even there
Those walls are hurting pretty bad.
Wow, I really thought the chaingunners were going to take this one.
What mod do you use for a free roam camera like this?
Not a mod. I use "notarget" and "fly" console commands.
The Cyberdemon's biggest weakness in this sort of contest is its need to fire rockets in bursts of three. Early on, it's not that much of a problem, since the Chaingunners are close together, but once the herd has been thinned, it's a waste of time to fire a full three-rocket volley at a single Chaingunner. I could definitely see the Chaingunners winning more often if they were spread out a lot more.
104/150? Huh. Nice.
Nice.
Nice.
Big Bois vs. Chaingun Wielders
It looks like at some range the chaingunner's weapon no longer does any damage. All the Cyberdemon has to do is get too far away and it can't lose since the chaingunners never move.
I like how most of the rockets fired are hitting the Wall 🧱
The cyberdemon fires somewhere between 2 and 7 rockets at one single target every time. Such a waste.
Funny how the Cyber wins at extreme long range (bullets mostly miss), and close range (splash damage and friendly fire). But at medium range, takes the most damage.
That was cool
Range is everything. In the middle rounds the cyber demon walks on UV - straight to his death. On nightmare he stands.
Then of course in the last round they were much closer and the cybers were meat.
what does not help him is attacking the same chaingunner until he is dead... his missile take a long ass time before reaching his target lol
I reported this video for cyber bullying. :/
This battle came down to distance. Had the chain gutters moved closer in range on nightmare? The Cyber demon would have most likely been easily defeated
I've thought that Chaingunners are the deadliest followed by Archviles
chain gunners are most deadly bc every bullet of their high-rate gun is a hit..
Imagine doing a fight video of Blood (1997) with the ruthless hitscanners: cultists 💀💀💀
lol those nightmare chaingunners aint none ta fuck with
69% Nice!
yeah nightmare does favor the hitscanners if they're not too far away.
I feel that if they didn't launch 5 rockets at one target they cyber demons would win every time.
A big problem here is something i see analyzed on aoe sometimes, the " overkill " when you need 10 archers to oneshot somethin, but you use 15, there are 5 archers beimg useless and wasting times, in this case, there cyberdemon would onehit any changunner, but he shot the rockets on velleys of 3 or 5, but at the same target, if he would actually shot on and the next to other targets, he would win constantly i think
En pesadilla los comandos son muy duros y pueden liquidar a cualquiera
😊🦖🦖🦖🦖
Cyberdemons should win every time but they’re dumb. The programmed three rockets per target wasted time and ammo.
❤1 doom guy can kill them all
Nightmare Chaingunners are too much.
Poor cyber
Shows how dumb the AI is when CD aims for the end Chaingunner instead of the middle so he can only kill one or wo at once and not more.
Well the AI was designed around chasing and killing the player, while monster infighting was deisgned as a way of saving ammo
Highly inefficient shooting by cds
Not fair, the Cyberdemons have a rocketchaingun on Nightmare difficulty
Proof that positioning matters as much as numbers.
make an arena with Icon of Sin-esque elevator bleachers for each side you coward
How stupid AI rules CyberDaemon 🤦🤦🤦🤦
If the chain gunner learned to strafe. Id say yhe chain gunner could be a final boss
Cyberdemon doesnt need difficulty he can one hit them in any difficulty. Difficulty only favors the chaingunner because it can increase their base damage and fire rate. Unless the cyberdemon just stand and shoot the goddamn rockets relentlessly
First. Boom, nailed it.
Dont you mean "Doom, nailed it"
That comment of yours, it wasn't interesting or funny. Please try to put more effort when expressing yourself with comments the next time. I am looking forward to see more of helpful comments coming from you, presuming you make them according to this simple guide on how to write comments
@@zer0interno nah
@@zer0interno nah