DCC controlled Hornby Dublo layout - with no wiring
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2018
- This video shows off my no-wiring DCC Hornby Dublo layout. There are 35 electric points, 15 electric uncouplers, and some signals, both colour-light and semaphore. But no wiring: each accessory has its own DCC decoder - powered directly from the track. Every type of HD loco has a DCC decoder fitted, and most have a keep-alive as well. Locos are controlled with a Roco Multimaus. Accessories are controlled from the touch screen of an iPad, connected to a Roco Z21 DCC control system. Some of the points are also controlled by Hornby Dublo switches which have been converted to DCC. The semaphore signals are operated with RC servos and have ‘bounce’. Several relevant articles have been published in the MERG Journal.
This video stopped me in my tracks :-). I am quite adrift from current railway control technology with my knowledge very much pre-DCC, but to see every aspect of the layout under control is a tremendous demonstration of your hours of development work on these systems. I couldn't wipe a smile off my face when you demonstrated the iPad control especially the pre-programmed routes. (When I was a teenager around 1980, my Dad's layout's points could be set up with a stylus touching contacts on a plan of the layout. We thought he had done well, but the spaghetti under the boards was extensive.)
It was good to take the time to demonstrate the keep-alive in action as it is so innovative. I remember "sticky patches" as one of the most frustrating aspects of a model railway.
Congratulations on your achievements!
wow Didn't think DCC and Hornby Dublo could be done, You've proved it can! Amazing
😳 if you've done six impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways - the restaurant at the end of the universe!
Alternatively you could run Hornby Dublo on DCC. Brilliant! Love the signal bounce!
OMG YOU AND YOUR LAYOUT ARE SO COOL.
What a great show of knowledge and skill to change a way of operating the Old track to New ways.
Loved the bit when Bristol Castle pulled away and there was no Mallard waiting. In the next shot, there she was. That DCC is a marvellous thing. I still havent managed to work it out.
Well spotted. The reason is that the Bristol Castle sequence is a re-take, and I forgot to put Mallard in the siding! In the first take, Bristol Castle was not controlled so smoothly, so I re-shot the sequence later.
Excellent very enjoyable thanks from New Zealand
Brings back memories of my first train set. About 1959, Trix Twin three rail. Magic!
Just came across your video. Thank you for doing this as you have a great example of modernising older equipment with newer DCC technology. You have encouraged me to reuse some of my older trains for DCC.
Well done. Nostalgia gold, love Hornby Dublo. Two wires is possible with DCC and well joined track work. Fishplates do conduct. Space is at a premium in tender locos with the ring field motors often filling loco cabs. East meets west with Z21 touchscreen and Hornby Dublo. Love it
Beautiful. The complete room
Just found this great video. Thanks for posting.
Very well done Julian. You have demonstrated very nicely how the older model railway systems can be dragged into the current exciting electronics. I use modern gear but your setup looks to be great fun to operate!
Absolutely brilliant!
I need to go one further and implement this stuff into my O Gauge clockwork trains :P
For me the most impressive part of this video was that the couplings held together hahaha
What a wonderful layout, Julian. Thanks for sharing. p.s. A great man-cave too.
That is just FAANTASTIC Julian, it has also answered a question I have on changing to DCC, I run Wrenn and Airfix locos as well as more (not so sturdy) up to date stuff, I've been told it's a waste of time converting old stock even with stay alive capacitors as there performance deteriates so much but after seeing this wonderful video I now see it's possible, thank you for showing your wonderful engineering in miniature.
Paul: So glad it inspired you. Contact me if you want help. Julian
@@juliancoles1825 Thank you for your reply Julian and offer of help, I’m also an ex BR signalman and make signals a big part of my 00 garden railway to add a dcc control signals system would be a great thing to do outside in all weathers, thank you again Julian
Absolutely brilliant idea/concept.
Lovely combination of 20th and 21st century tech in your "man-cave" Julian . Showing how neat DCC can be without the spaghetti wiring often involved in both DC and DCC layouts. Nice choice of the Roco Multimaus handheld controller big fan of it myself .
we all like to think of our hobby rooms as our "man cave" but this is a man cave par excellence.
Fantastic video Julian, I was thinking of doing something similar with my layout and you have answered alot of questions very simply for me !
Well done. My Dublo has all gone now and I am building Dcc n gauge because of lack of space AND SOUND !! Keith
Great video some good items on there.
Absolute genius who's decoders are you using ? I recently sold my dcc controller because of cost but I use 70s and 80s hornby and lima engines and was constant told buy new sell the old stuff it's not compatible well you prove them all wrong it's astounding what you have accomplished simply brilliant.
Brian
Interesting demonstration. Please explain in a bit more detail in your next video. You might consider making a Triang TT layout for your next project since that would allow you to have more trackwork on that baseboard whilst retaining the vintage theme! Thanks for uploading.
Brilliant.
Brilliant!
This gives me an idea of chipping my engines with the digital chips from my old SCX slot cars
and be able to run multiple trains with the pistol grip controllers.???????
amazing
Amazing
Very impressive 👍😊
I'm just wondering how do you ensure good continuity across track joins/joints? Similarly for the points (is that what the stay alive capacitors are for?) Also I'm pondering how many amps your transformer is as your powering everything from the track? And, finally, how is the layout affected by voltage drop etc - is such the optimal size (and as it's a tail chaser) to avoid voltage drop etc?
I guess MERG have the slim line stay alives as a kit of parts or similar, which might be beyond me
Your ideas may help me with my disabilities etc - I was going to use copper SA tape on top of the boards and add droppers, plus hard wire the points and have switched crossing nose Vs🤔🤔👍😕
Hi my friend and yours Raja sent me your link. Amazing ingenuity, what iPad app do you use to control the points?
I have just finished adding stay alive to 55 Hornby TTS decoders. Incredible difference!
Pat Nicholls
Hello Pat
Ah Raja..yes an old and dear friend. The iPad app is part of the Z21 system. Yes I have stay alives on all my locos.
Nice video Julian. Did you design the PIC circuits? By the way, it's MERG with a soft G, not MERGE!
Always look forward to your "Letters from France" in the journals.
I have adopted the Lenz ABC system using ZIMO decoders which give a much better controlled stopping distance. Most realistic! Keep on modelling. Best wishes from M3315
Christopher: glad you liked the video and my articles. And yes, I did design the PIC hardware and software. More details in the September 2017 MERG Journal. Julian
Hi Julian, Any chance of you making a video of the conversion of a Duchess loco? Any opinions on Gaugemaster or TCS decoders? Steve
Steve
I use Lenz decoders because I use their ABC system. TCS decoders work fine as well. I suggest a Skype session for describing the installation process. Email me: julian.coles69@gmail.com
Julian
An excellent combination of the old and new and well explained. A question I have is how did you isolate the brush holder of the various Dublo motors from the live chassis.
freightuk Thank you! A good question: it is quite easy. In drilled the brush hole out to 4.5mm. A new brush tube was made with 4mm OD brass tube. The tube is insulated with rolled up paper - you can get exactly the right fit by choosing the number of layers. The brush and spring fit neatly into the brass tube. The plug also fits and you can solder the motor wire to it. Motors with spring clip brush fixings are even easier. Just add a pice of insulation - I used heat shrink sleeve. Then a small brass tube fitted over the insulation can have the motor wire soldered to it.
@@juliancoles1825 Thanks, I have already converted most of my 2R Dublo with 0.5 inch motors which were quite easy, so conversion of the Ringfield motors is next. Time for some careful drilling. I also noticed that you have managed to dispense with droppers to all the rail sections, quite a feat to get reliable connections between all track sections. Certainly could not do that with the Peco Code 100 fishplates, they weaken too easily to trust over a short period let alone a long period. At least I find that Dublo locos work easily on Peco track without the use of stay alive which is quite an expensive addition especially from Lenz. Jim :)
@@juliancoles1825 Hi, Can you convert the motors on the Castle series to DCC? They have a different type of brush system.
@@steverowland1898 Steve
Yes, it's perhaps a little more difficult, but the same principles apply: drill out the uninsulated brush tube. You have to disassemble the motor to avoid drilling into the armature. But this is not too tricky.....
Julian
Sorry forgot to mention that I use Peco track & points and solenoid point motors.
That is absolutely brilliant, do you have an electrical background by any chance? I never realised Dublo could be DCC's! Must have taken a long time to fit chips to every loco and points though.
So is the voltage applied to the track standard DCC 16v or Dublo 12v?
Are the DCC chips just a standard 8 pin chip or something else? I might not sell my Dublo stuff having watched this!
Glad you liked the layout! Yes, I was a electronic designer - retired 20 years ago. Must have taken about a year to fit all the chips, but the hardest part was probably designing and building the point decoders. The track voltage is 17V DCC (ie +/-17V). The loco decoders I bought - mainly Lenz Silver and Standard V2. The chips in the point decoders are the PIC 12F675 programmed in Assembler. Yes, hang on to your Dublo stuff! Contact me if you would like help with locos or points.
@@juliancoles1825 Thank you. I may do so regarding DCCing the locos. You have given me food for thought!
Hello Julian, a superbly informative video. I run a small group mostly but not exclusively dedicated to Dublo. Would you be happy for me to post a link back to this video? I think my members would benefit by seeing how you do it. Regards, Richard Spencer.
Hello Richard, After praise like that, what can I say? !!. Please post a link to your group.. I am keen to spread the word on what you can do with Dublo. It never ceases to amaze me how good the engineering was/is - even after 60 years. If you need any more information, do contact me. Remember also that there is more in the MERG journals.
Very impressive. Just one question : on standard 12v 2 rails layout, it is usually not recommended to rely o nthe tracks only to both power and run your DCC engines and accessories, and you have to wire a bus to do that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hornby Dublo is a 3 track system on 12 v DC (unlike the 3 rails Märklin system, which is 16v AC, and well used in France where I live as an alternative to 2 rails 12v DC). THe Dublo tracks does not seems to me as they are made of nickel silver like today's model tracks for 2 tracks systems. Does the 3 track system have a better overall electrical conductivity that permits to power and run either engines and accessories than in a classic 12 v 2 rails system ? If I would try to do the same with my 2 rails system on Piko A track, I should have electrical sections roughly 2m/7ft, and special ones only for zones with cascading pointworks, lika station"s throats, fed by a separate bus, same for accessories. So, does the Dublo system have better electrical caracteristics than standard 12 v DC 2 rails that permits you to do such a magnificent job, or am I missing something ? I'm curious of it, thanks for your answer.
Olivier: sorry for the delay in replying..first important question: where are you in France. We are in the Drôme. A lot of folks say you can't use the track for the DCC bus, but I have shown here and in my latest video, it is entirely possible and cuts down the wiring to zero. This latest video is 2-rail BTW. Of course HD is particularly good for low track connector resistance.
@@juliancoles1825 Good evening. For your question, I'm in the department next to yours, in Grenoble (Isère). I have to watch back your video to get an estimation of the length of your tracks, it might have a positive influence on your no-wires DCC layout. As I am into modular layouts due to cramped housing conditions, I have to take care of every connections from one module to another, and avoid fishplates, both for track mechanical integrity and electrical continuity. So, parallel wiring is considered by me, and, of course, the longest pieces of track I can use overall, hence the Peco Setrack choice (670mm length straight available).
I suspect that the HD tracks are made with nickel silver with more copper than my mix of Piko A/Peco Setrack, but I have not measure yet the electrical conductivity (lack of meter at home !). I think that the section of your rails is also broader than my code 100 ones. Especially the Piko, which are a slimmest version of the code 100 profile than ordinary ones. It helps with conductivity.
It's a myth that you need to run bus wires and droppers.
Bonjour Julian, I watched your demonstration with great interest. Thanks for sharing this 'seem to be simple' control system you fabricated. But I have some questions. How many Amp's you provide to run and operate the layout ? Do you use boosters ? Each accessory item has a decoder - just like the engines - but what type of decoder do you use for points and signals ? I'm building a layout - The AnneliesVille RR ( have trackplan you can google or see on MRH)- and will change my actual NCE Power Cab to the Z21 (black)system to wireless control and run 2 or 3 loco's at a given time. I have installed a Bus for there is about 90 meters of track. I'll see to find your articles on Merg but will appreciate your kind reply here. Thanks, greetings & happy railroading (I live in the Indre 36 )
Filip, c'est un plaisir de répondre à vos questions! J'habite dans la Drôme. Amps: it's the Z21 (3.5A) - no other booster. I describe the decoders in the video! 90 metres of track - wow. It is possible to convert my point decoder for Seep point motors - just add a much larger capacitor (2200uF instead of 660uF). Love your layout.
Rebonjour Julian, merci pour votre agréable réponse ! Regarding the accessory decoders do I understand that you build these yourself ? I'm not an electronics wizard so I was hoping to find these in commerce. I'm doing some research. I have about 24 points but will start only with the mainline points. It's quite an investment & challenge to build a 23' x 18' layout but I enjoy every bit of it. What I can build DIY I do with enthusiasm but I miss out on electronics. Thanks for the compliment and always welcome. The Drôme is not that far au normes Française. All the best and thanks. I love your video's and it's an interesting learning curve.
@@phil36310 Rebonjour Filip. Yes I build and design them myself. I know of no commercial versions, but as I said, they would work with SEEP motors with a larger capacitor. Are you a member of MERG? If not, send me your email address and I will copy you the article I wrote for the MERG Journal which describes the design in detail.
Rebonjour Julian, Merci beaucoup ! No, I'm not a member of MERG and I thank you for your kind offer. My email address is: p.carpenter@laposte.net.
I'll send you some photos of my layout in return. Meanwhile all the best & happy railroading.
@@juliancoles1825 Tres bon idee. I too would like to implement digital to dublo, especially the points! My understanding is that the PIC controller has 1) to be built into a PCB - your design (unless kits are availble?) then 2) coded using assembler. excuse the direct contact but I've tried to locate the MERG article without success.
Hi Julian,
I am attempting this with my layout, with the locos did you literally connect the motor outputs from the chip straight to the motor brush terminals of the loco ? With No other modifications to the original loco wiring?
Thanks
Great. But you MUST insulate the brush connected to the chassis. I drilled it to 4.5mm them insulated with paper. A new brush tube was made from 4mm OD brass tube.
@@juliancoles1825
Thanks Julian,
I thought that would be the case as otherwise it would collect both the DC signal from the chip and the AC from the track.
Thanks very much!
Great stuff, but I'm also fascinated by the unusual stone structure where your layout is located. What was its purpose when built? How old is it? Thanks for sharing.
Hello Jagreb
Glad you liked the layout. We live in an old stone farmhouse in the south of France. There are lots of stone outhouses which were for animals s and foddder
Of which this is one. It was renovated by a local builder. I use a dehumidifier sometimes to keep it dry. I guess it must date from the 19th century.
@@juliancoles1825 Very interesting. So much history in Europe. Structures that old (and older) are very much a rarity here in the US.
Just a (sideways?) thought, done with 1950s tech. How many Colossuses/Colossi under the baseboard, and coaches/wagons on tow behind the loco? 76:1 scale layout?
Yes its 76:1 (00 gauge). No Colossi were used! As I show there is nothing under the layout. No magnetic core memories either.
@@juliancoles1825 I think you mean 1:76, 1 to 76 - OO. 76:1, 76 to 1 Massive scale! to accommodate the period tech. Brilliant non the less! As are the automated Vids.
Wow, how did you get models that old to work with DCC?
Every type of HD loco can be adapted to DCC. With the sprung brush tube types, the tube has to be drilled out and insulated. My preferred decoder is the Lenz Silver.
@@juliancoles1825 very interesting
Ingenious I never thaught it could be done. What Dcc chips do you use? Could you even add a sound chip?
The loco decoders are Lenz Silver because they work with the Lenz ABC system which I use for automation. The point decoders are my own design. And yes, sound decoders could certainly be used in HD locos.
Almost as intriguing as the layout and electronics is the building in which they are all situated.
James, happy you were intrigued! We live in the South of France, near Avignon in an old stone farmhouse. We have several outbuildings - also in stone. One of them I renovated (with the help of local builders!). And that is what you see.
Julian Coles How splendid! It is a little like having a railway in a cave.
Well I never.
Not bad, but no wiring? Are you quite sure about that?
Phil: OK, I had to connet the DCC to the track! Also, you see where I linked in the HD switches I needed another pair of wires. The colour signals need a pair of wires, but only from the adjacent track. So...very, very nearly 'no wires'!
Hello Julian, actually I was being a bit cheeky, I realised you had to have at least that quantity of wiring. I also understood where you were coming from when you said no wiring, my layout took over 1100 metres but that was mainly because I am running block control. Very nice man cave by the way.
Hi Phil, Thanks for the clarification.....What is your block control system?
Hello Julian, I am using the Roco Z21 controller with the black wireless Roco hand controller and Digikeijs units for the block control. Because I am using Fleischmann Piccolo track I am using DCC Concepts ADS8X point controllers to drive my turnouts. My uncouplers are being controlled with Uhlenbrock units. I am controlling the whole layout using a piece of software called iTrain.
Hi Phil, I used the ADS8X before using my own decoders - there was quite a lot of wire, even with them. How about a TH-cam video of your layout! Thanks for the info, I'll check out the gadgets you are using - though I use the Z21 myself of course.
Hello Julian, I have got a TH-cam channel my layout is under “Lyall Way Station” you should be able to find me there. It no longer exists as a layout though as you will see from my last video the track all distorted during the hot summer weather so I am currently rebuilding it.
Best Regards Phil
Toy train set Brigade not "model railways" !!!!