Korean Buddhist traveler, Hyecho reached Persia and Arabia in 8th century never mentions anything about "Islam" or "Muslims". He mentions that Persians still practiced Zoroastrianism under Arab rule.
In the 6th century an indian king cheraman perumal fron kerala india visited arabia and became muslim. I liked professors knowledge but he leans to present fron christian thinker. He should know that In the Quran, Gabriel appears named in 2:92-96, 2:97 and 66:4.
That sounds rights. Even in the 7th century among the Christians, there is no credible evidence of Muslims or a prophet Muhammad. Islam came far later. Everything of the known Middle East - the Fertile Crescent - was Christian, Jewish, and a few polytheist. The story of Muslims storming out of desert to conquer the Middle East is fanciful. Real evidence suggests something far more boring.
Having so deep and so vast information is something, but the ability to present it so clearly, and so good reasoned, in so short time, is something else. As a person with Islamic background, I have worked a little on this topic, and I have to admit that this presentation is astonishingly excellent, thank you.
There is no mention of any Arabic prophet, of Mecca, of the black stone, of the Palestinian (= the philistin, the enemy of the King David ) in the Quran. Islam as a religion was fabricated outside the book, the Quran. Muhammad is a divine title, not a name, which points to .....the Messiah = the Christ = the God of Israel incarnated as King in Zion ( Jerusalem).
The islamic population increased with the help of Sword 🗡️ Bullet Force,, poor illiterate peoples,,many a times educated fools also converted to Islam. In islamic countries , womens are targeted,, no liberty for womens,, womens are production machine for 20/30/50 Kids... HALALA for womens, Triple TALAK for womens,, even only mens are getting 72 Hoors with very big size Breasts. Now a days, Quaran written/modified by Mullah, Moulavee's are read by Islamic peoples, which mentioned "other than Muslims, all peoples are KAAFIR & to be killed..This is the moto of Islam..
in philosophy class years ago we learned about the concept of God being transcendent which I struggled to understand. however this professor mentions this at 48:45 and says that it means "you can't say anything about Him" and I finally understood it in just that one phrase! what a great lecturer.
Love this lecture, I am not historian lover, but people live without knowing the history, they are lost, because since they were born the history started recorded their life. Thank you Sir for your time and science explanation..
I was born in Algeria, and I always asked myself how did Islam spread so quickly in north africa, and we managed to reconquer Iberia in 711. In fact, we were still christians at that time, Islam was not born yet !
@Bhi fee imagine, prostrating 5 times a day and the numbers is increasing, while Christianity you have to pray only once a week and yet it is dwindling....I wonder why?
@Bhi fee in your dream... You didn't read your bible properly... Jesus was not God... Give me a reference where jesus said I am God,worship me... Today I will convert to Christianity
Thank you for bringing this lecture from Professor Sivers to a wider audience. I would love to discuss with the Professor his opinion of the influence of Neoplatanist thought (that the "One" is transcendent and can only be accessed via the two emanations of the "One") had on the various early Christian factions and the formation of Islamic theology?
Notice these important timelines: 602 AD the Persians kill Nu’man bin Munthir, the last Lakhmid king, their vassal. 603-628 war with Byzantines. 610 AD combined Arab tribes reorganize and beat Persians at the battle of Dhi Qaar. 628-632 Persian civil war 636 - 644 conquest of the sassanid empire by Arabs The most likely explanation is, the followers of the murdered Arab king in 602 reorganized, and took advantage of the vacuum created by the Sassanid Byzantine war, and conquered the area. These people were Christians. Perhaps more research is needed into the next few centuries when Islam is born and adopted by the State, and history is re written. Incredibly, Quran is extremely vague about these events, it’s as if a lot of texts have been redacted. In one Sura named after the Romans “Rum, it sounds like Quran is celebrating Byzantine victory over the Persians or predicting it with hope and joy, it goes something like this: Rome is defeated, but they become victorious and the believers will rejoice…. It’s an extremely strange and out of place verse if you are familiar with Quran. Almost certain the context of it and perhaps similar verses have been removed.
Given the corruption (and wilful interpretations) it's necessary to focus on the tangible, of which their isn't a lot. Which in itself is damning for the Islamic narrative, which claims 5 great caliphs not only formed a new religion but also one of the largest empires ever seen. But yet left no solid, tangible evidence. No buildings, no memorials etc. Even written references are vague and very few. But the damning evidence is the Umayyad coins that have clear Christian imagery. More damning is the coin with a Jesus like figure, two crosses and the abbreviation for Muhammad, the blessed one, on it.
Fascinating comment. One thing is clear, the bulk of the various Arab (both Christian and Pagan) kingdoms, sick of being mercenaries and vassals for Rome and Persia, were ready for a opportunity to unite and put all they had learned as warriors, diplomats, priests and merchants to create their own empire. Its the oldest military tale in the books, "mercenaries (barbarians?) rise up and overtake their patrons." I think watching Game of Thrones (particularly seasons 3-5) with the rise of the snake cult is the closest you can get to seeing how a religion/belief system can be used to assist in building a nation-state. Its not the ONLY thing you need, but its crucial.
@@juniorjames7076 Sassanid researchers all agree in the last decades of the empire the demographics of Mesopotamia and western iran had changed, more Arab/semites, less Iranians, even the language at the Sassanid court was gradually being replaced by Aramaic. It’s another old tale of the more advanced and prosperous population going into demographic decline and being replaced by incorporated barbarians. Later the Abbasids in their rewriting of the history of these events, they squeezed these century long events into a decade and by necessity creating a few super men like Umar and Ali to do these miraculous works, I think generally how all nation/state legends work, slow events are squeezed into a short time and super men are created to carry out those impossible actions.
On the contrary to the Bible with all its contradictory numerous versions , No deletion or addition whatsoever of a single verse in the Quran has been proven . The Quran was not revealed to be book of history, in fact very few historical events are mentioned throughout the chapters ; all of which are "vaguely” referred to as not to dive into the bits and pieces of those events rather than illuminating their moral. In surat Al-Room the verses do predict and celebrate the upcoming victory of the Romans (Al-Room) over the Persians ;although not named in the Surah as the details are not the purpose at all. The news do fill the hearts of the believers with joy as the Romans being Christians (people of the book) defeating the pagan Persians resembles the moslems in their struggle against the pagan Arabs.
Very interesting! Most historians i have heard begin the islamic origin discussion with earliest islamic and non muslim sources after 634. This is brilliant
1 All early mosques point to Petra 2 All geographic clues in Koran fit Petra but don't fit Mecca 3 Trading route went through Petra, and Mecca was unknown in any writing of the time 4 Koran claims Christians believed Mary was part of the Trinity, showing the writer had a poor understanding of actual Christology of any sort 5 The Nabatean script is the basis for the Koran 6 Allah and his 2 daughters are part of Nabateans 7 The Koran says "the prophet" has frequent interactions with 3 tribes that surround Petra which is 600 miles north of Mecca There's more which he avoids. Islam is a mishmash of Christian, Judaism and Nabatean paganism, not just Christianity. This guy avoids these topics. He probably wants to keep his funding and his head on his shoulder. He also avoids the main impediment to Islamic research: the violence which scholars face. Such violence was present in Christianity during the middle ages, but quickly faded after the reformation of 1500s. Islam now is as violently opposed to scholars as ever. This entire lecture is severely limited by the fear if the speaker.
JR Rodriguez How do you know the 3 tribes mentioned in the Quran are from around Petra? I also believe Petra to be the center of Muhammads preaching but I haven't looked much into the tribes in and around Petra.
Have done no research on this topic at all. I am fully reliant for youtube videos of Jay Smith. I am no scholar of this area at all. I will not spend the time to seriously research this topic. I am a physician and biochemist who does peripheral NIH human trials research on new drugs, has a private medical practice and best knows single carbon human metabolism. I apologize if I gave any impression that I know anything from primary sources.
I first read Koran 43 years ago as an agnostic along with various Hindu, Bhuddist, Shinto and many philosophers looking for Truth. Of all, I found the Koran the most boring, absurd and violent of all. Especially boring, as well as disjointed and capricious. As a literary work it is poor. I would add that when I first read the Bible as an agnostic I was stunned by how different it is from all other books I have ever read. I have been a Christian 42 years now. However, my source is Jay Smith. I am by no means well versed in Islam. I am not fit to debate this.
In famous mosque in Istanbul, original facing by prayer leader faced possibly PETRA. You can clearly see that current facing of Mecca is actually create the other followers praying nit in same line or curve.Intriguing that No one answered why it was so. changed
This is fascinating. I don't know if he has much more than inference for his ideas that many of the other Arabs were Christian, but it does make some things link together.
@@josiahbennett7573 To the contrary, the whole region was very Christianized but I don't agree that Islam came from Christianity. Islam is more Jewish than Christian. The key to understanding Islam would be to understand groups of people like the Saracens who lived in the outskirts of parts of Fertile Crescent and were usually very anti-Roman. They simply called themselves believers which is very generic. Believers like Jews or Christians? Not much information. But one thing is clear, the Saracens after conquering Jerusalem were interested in what used to be the Temple Mount. Suggesting they leaned toward Jewish tradition than Christian. I think the generic term like believers suggests there was a mix of Abrahamic faiths and Islam was created to consolidate the regions in order to create unification later on AFTER the conquests. People would go to pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Considering that Mecca is only mentioned once in the Quran, Mecca in Islam is actually suppose to be Jerusalem because that is where everybody went to for pilgrimage from all over, perhaps even the Saracens themselves. Even the Quran writers, may be more Jewish than Christian to the point of they would confuse Miriam, sister of Aaron, and Moses, the daughter of Imran, as the Mary who gave birth to Jesus, which they lived a thousand years apart from the Mary Christians consider the be the mother of Jesus. This is a comical error for somebody who is schooled in the New Testament knowing that the Old Testament is much older. The error suggests the Quran was a tool to create new scripture (based on old) to accommodate Jesus into Judaism or Judiac understanding. This error also counters Von Sivers point, Islam could not come from Christianity, at least, not directly, however how many heresies, or schism that occurred in the empires. It is Arab Jews, not Christian Arabs. Jews and Christians were enemies during this period and the enmity between the two would likely extended to the Arabs of both denominations. However, when "Arabs" did capture huge swaths of land, they simply could not remove the Christians. They were too vital for the economy and administration of the regions they always operated.
@@josiahbennett7573 Jews do not believe Jesus was God's prophet, but the Christian Arabs did. They just went a step further and created their own prophet.
No mention of any Arabic Prophet, of Mecca, of the black stone, of the Palestinian (= the philistin, the enemy of the King David). Islam as a religion was fabricated outside the book, the Quran. Muhammad is a divine title, not a name, which points to the Messiah= the Christ = the God of Israel incarnated as King in Zion ( Jerusalem).
"Nestorian Christianity ... believes in the two equal natures of Jesus ... fully human and also God" - that's actually the Catholic/Orthodox/Chalcedonian creed. Nestorians distinguish the two natures so much that this results in two separate persons. His description of Monophystism is even more off. It would be more accurate to say that Nestorianism emphasizes the distinction between Christ's 2 natures, sometimes turning them into 2 separate persons, whereas Monophysitism stresses the unity of Christ's Person, sometimes disregarding the distinctions of the 2 natures.
@fynes leigh it's theological and historical education, assembled from many sources. But any scholarly work on the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon will Teller you that. Finding the latter council's definitions (binding on both the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Church, opposed to Nestorians and Monophysites) online shouldn't be difficult.
Nestorianism has the problem of how to maintain the unity of Christ. Yes, he is divine and human but there would have to be two persons. Monophysitism holds that He is principally divine and that the human nature tends to dissolve as a drop in the ocean. The Christian Orthodox position held by Catholics, Orthodox in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople and also most Protestants, follow the doctrine defined at the Council of Chalcedon of 451, according to which Christ is one, a single person which is the divine Person and two distinct natures, not dissolved. This takes hat is correct in both Nestorianism and Monophysitism. The crux of this matter is to be able to distinguish between the person and nature. This was achieved by St. Augustine and others.
The Professor confused what the Immaculate Conception is with what is the incarnation or the annunciation. The Incarnation or Annunciation is what he described. Jesus not having a Biological Father. Being conceived miraculously in Mary’s womb without having relations with a man. The Immaculate Conception is not this. The immaculate Conception is Mary being conceived in her mother, Ann’s womb, without having Original Sin attached to her soul. So MARY is the Immaculate Conception.
ONLY the Son of YAHWEH was IMMACULATELY conceived; NONE other; not Mary of Nazareth, not you or me!! YAHSHUA was PERFECT in ETERNAL Past and still PERFECT in ETERNAL Future! He did NOT abandon His PERFECTION anytime between the ETERNAL PAST and the ETERNAL FUTURE!! Therefore, WHY should he NEED a PERFECT and SINLESS mother to conceive Him and give BIRTH to the Son of YAHWEH! If MARY was to be conceived SINLESS as well, then her PARENTS her biological parents MUST be SINLESS too ALL their lives! Yes or NO!! Agree??? Why NOT???
That is a typical catholic interpretation. Jesus was immaculate in conception against all other people (Mary included) which are sinful by nature according to the Word of God.
@@e-college-sait Your personal denomination & your thoughts about Catholicism are irrelevant to the issue here, the issue here is that the term IMMACULATE has a precisely defined meaning and it is used in relation to MARY's conception and birth - which involved CARNAL CONSORT of her parents, unlike Jesus's; Jesus "who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary, and was made man" In other words, Mary is "immaculate" even though her mother was not a virgin and had sex with her father. That's why we do not use the word "immaculate" in relation to Jesus. Capisce?
@@bavariancarenthusiast2722 I should have been more specific. The stories of how Smith and Mohamed received the word of god are very similar. But good of you to acknowledge the violent ways employed by the founder of the religion of peace!
@@F1since79 yes Mohammed was a warlord first and conquerer in his time. That might explain the violence which is prevalent with parts of the Islam unfortunately.
52:20 there is a huge difference between the city of Hira حيرة and the cave of Hiraa' حراء in Arabic they are two different words with different spelling. in English you cannot write them differently because some sounds are not possible to write in english. or hamza sound (ء). additionally they come from two different roots. every word in arabic has a verb root. it is like an arab mistaking the words vague and fake because of the lack of V sound in arabic and then saying the are identical words. this is a very unfortunate mistake. it reflects great lack of understanding. very symbolic of western scholarship in the topic of early islamic history.
@Shashank Tripathi orientalists are lying to you. The Sanaa mosque was built during the time of the prophet and it was precisely directed to Makkah. Early caliphs are practical no need to destroy the coin 🤷♂️ the way you talk shows that you are extremely ignorant you should keep your mouth shut 🤐
@Shashank Tripathi If you think all Muslims are born liars, it means you are a bigot. bigotry and stupidity are two faces of the same coin. I suggest you heal yourself of your own ignorance first. Your ignorance and hatred towards Muslims will lead you astray. everything you said appeals to the unlearned and the biased. I have shown in my first comment the level of academic credibility the speaker of the video has when they mixed up two different arabic words to make a point. This should highlight his lack of knowledge. You on the other hand do not deserve to be refuted because your stupidity is taking care of it for me.
@Shashank Tripathi Peace and blessings be upon his prophet Muhammad. Long after you are dead and forgotten, Muhammad will be praised in all corners of earth. Just as he was praised before his birth in all ancient scriptures. While you are going to be forgotten the moment you perish. You were born worthless, living like a loser, and you will die a nobody. It’s fine! You can have a couple of minutes to curse at muslims who brought culture and civilization to your ancestors who were living in ignorance and filth
@Shashank Tripathi it takes time to print your own currency and they didn’t destroy any church or tried to cover any painting why they care about some painting in a coin. Another reason for not printing new coins that they had too many public servant who were not Muslim and speak no Arabic changing the whole governing system wasn’t necessary.
@@mrmighty9862 actually you should read chapter 4 women,because since you r not to to insult the Koran let it insult itself,if you believe that chapter 4 is the word of God you r wak,and guess wat the entire Muslim world is wak
At 53:27 he suggested that Quran was a collaborative work of Christens in the desert without any objective reasoning. He probably thinks that Quran must be written just like King James bible was written where a number of authors were involved. As an academic he should have given Islamic version of Quran and then some data for his version, not just speculation.
Still the important question about: how all the Islamic sects still silent, and accept the same outline of the tradition, even though they are killing each other since the early Islam .. Thank you from syria ..
Islam today is not just a religion but an ideology, legal and economic system that props several governments around the world. None of them eager to declare itself irrelevant.
Ali Syr the sects are so separated in terms of mindset . Sunni Islam(I grew up in) , anyone not Sunni is looked at as in falsehood or steeped in innovation (looked down upon ) and Sunni Muslims are most left brain mindset . Don’t ask questions , don’t even look outside the lines , and only scholars they deem correct are referenced . The truth is coming out slowly.... and here in corona, ca I talked about these things and how it’s not this Saudi style .... and I got blackballed 🙅🏽♂️... sheep’s don’t know they are just used for their wool then their meat.
QS. Jonah Verse 38 Say, "Make a surah which is like a surah (Al-Qur'an), and invite anyone of you who can (make it) other than Allah, if you are true people."
Make a sonata like Beethoven, or a concerto like Mozart, or a song like the Beatles, or a book like Harry Potter, if you can. If not, then Beethoven, Mozart, the Beatles or JK Rowling must be gods then.
Make a life like I did if you could not then you are not god. Oh by the way. Persecute those who try. Like a minor girl in a certain place in the hell holes of the planet.
@@sidprice6214 how is “make a Surah like a Surah” not a challenge to write something comparable? Perhaps you missed the point that this verse is a shrewd and lame attempt to shift the burden of proof. If Allah was how he’s supposed to be, surely it could have found a much more convincing argument to prove that the Quran is its word, rather than challenge non believers to prove believers wrong. The burden of proof is on whoever is making the claim, and how can you prove that a book is the word of god if you cannot even prove that a god exists?? I don’t wish to see anyone or anything as a god, until it’s proven so. YOU are the one doing that. And if you were to apply the same logic, YOU should see Beethoven, Mozart, the Beatles or JK Rowling as gods or god’s messengers, like Christians do for Christ and you do for Mohammad.
We cannot use the Islamic sources...because they show Islam is originally from Petra and a fraud invented in the late 800s. Yes, the onion was pealed and there is no core to Islam beyond political necessity.
1- My reasons for stating my lack of first hand knowledge is not modesty, it is Truth. 2- As to being born credulous, we all have some level of excessive credulity, but compared to most people I am highly skeptical (but not cynical). As this is a spurious ad hominem attack, I won't bother with a defense beyond the fact that while I was an agnostic I rejected macroevolutionary mythology and remained an agnostic for over a year before becoming Christian. I am a retired professor of medicine and biochemistry at a US medical school. I am NOT an Islamic scholar. That does not mean I am incapable of thought. 3- The teachings ascribed to Mohammed did not arise out of thin air. They are a poorly written syncretic mix of Ebionite, Gnostic (such as Christ making a bird of clay), Talmudic and especially Nabathean paganism. This much I am certain because I have read translationS of the unholy Koran, Gnostic Gospels and Talmudic. There are no extant Ebionite writings, but since I have taught Church History, I have an aquaintence with them as well.
Whats the controversy he referenced in the beginning between scholars on this newer perspective? Is it basically the orthodox Islam history vs this new perspective?
The pertinent question is did any Christians(various early Christian factions with differing interpretations of Christianity) convert to Islam from.the 7th century onwards or was it more of the gentile, non-Jewish and people believing in polytheism, pagans that were early Islam converts. Over time there probably were forced conversions either implicitly via higher taxes for non Muslims or explicitly by force.
These theories don't seem to elucidate much. What about the spread of Islam, the Umnayads, the conquests of Persia, Egypt, Levant etc? Sure the extant biographies are from two hundred years later but they seem to have been formulated within an well established millue.
So the biggest Question to ask is this is Islam a dangerous Religion even in the year 2022. Time will tell us what Islam is all about. Moreover Islam must tell us what is the rationale of mankind and his role in this large and vast Universe In Accra Tema and Takoradi.
Mohammed's first wife Khadija gave him a young slave named Zaid Bin Haritha. Mohammed liked the boy and few years later took him to Kaba (a holy site for believers) and announced to all present that Zaid is my son. Thereafter the slave was named Zaid Bin Mohammed. Some year later Mohammed went to see his son who was absent but his wife Zainab, invited him in. She was scantily dressed so that Mohammed hastily retreated, exclaiming, Lord, "how Thou dost turn the hearts of men!" Zainab, delighted at this eminent conquest, recounted the incident to her husband in detail. Zaid the son immediately went to see Mohammed and said he was perfectly willing to divorce his wife so that Mohammed could marry her. While Mohammed hesitated, doubtless because Arab customs forbade marrying one's own daughter in law. Zaid did divorce Zainab. Shortly thereafter while in the company of Ayesha, his child-bride, Mohammed had a prophetic trance. He awoke to say, Send someone to Zainab the good news. " He then recited Koranic verses that sanctioned the marriage and abrogated his fatherhood of Zaid. Ayesha, who must have been crestfallen, quietly uttered one of the most sarcastic remarks ever made to his face. She said, Thy Lord doth hasten to please Thee." Zaid, having lost a wife gained immortality. He is the only person beside Mohammed mentioned in Koran by name. I have often wondered what special services Zain do for Islam but could not come up with a reasonable response. Think a good Muslims can come up with a reasonable response, I wonder?
Nusrat Rizvi Good points. All religions are founded by scoundrels and hucksters, and followed by weak-minded people who can’t tell an obvious fraud when he’s standing right in front of them preaching piety.
We in the Arab world can easily refute this demonized accounts of Western forgers because we search the abundant sources in Arabic. I don't think the sources in English are scanty that you can't find any source! Click the link above and search more about FACTS
von Sivers will go down in history as a great scholar who cracked the Christian-Islamic connection; this lecture ought to be shared worldwide . . . especially in the US where Christian Nationalist cultism has emerged in force again in the 2020's.
The Kaldonien side of christianity won by the sord! That does NOT make it the "right" christianity. what the professor is kind of saying is that we can view islam as the continuation of the part of christianity that "lost".
@@hasen_judi are you a kid or something?no wonder you make such statements. That's exactly what happens when you don't have the facts and just an empty brain 😂
@@gilbertg7 well ma'am/sir, do you think Islam spread throughout the world without Muslims reaching to the ends of the world, so you see that you'd grasp this concept only if your brain ain't empty,my answer's not so empty now,is it?😏
The islamic population increased with the help of Sword 🗡️ Bullet Force,, poor illiterate peoples,,many a times educated fools also converted to Islam. In islamic countries , womens are targeted,, no liberty for womens,, womens are production machine for 20/30/50 Kids... HALALA for womens, Triple TALAK for womens,, even only mens are getting 72 Hoors with very big size Breasts. Now a days, Quaran written/modified by Mullah, Moulavee's are read by Islamic peoples, which mentioned "other than Muslims, all peoples are KAAFIR & to be killed..This is the moto of Islam..
As difficult as it may seem to accept, this becomes obvious if you ask the famous cui bono: the world (and its prince, which I won't honor the least bit so I'm not even going to name him) has hurled anything it could at Jesus, culminating in the unbelievable torture Jesus was submitted to before He died on the Cross. Even in our times, look at what's going on even in the Holy Church: Pope John Paul II kissing the Quran, Pope Francis declaring Islam and plurality of faiths "willed" by God... So, in its "fruits", Islam clearly goes against Christ's salvation, by crowning a false faith and a false prophet.
@@MohamedAhmed-eg3mh Islam is for idiots: I can't even begin to count all the repetitions, very profound ones such as "Do you not understand?". Have your IQ tested, below 90 you make a great Muslim, do you not understand? Oh, and one last very important thing: do you not understand?
Sigh... Still looking for mention of what role the highly active monks of the Gulf littoral may have played. I believe there are Syriac records that discuss a rebellion there against the Nestorian Church.
@@truthseekrz2627 Thank you for asking, but I do not have a compelling source for the monks' activity (beyond googling 'Bet Qatraye'). That is why I am searching for something academic. Here is a presentation on the archaeological record on Christians in the Gulf (primary source): th-cam.com/video/u6tvNfqN6ek/w-d-xo.html There is significant material evidence indicating Christianity was extensively present in the entire Arabian Peninsula. This needs to be mapped out and addressed when discussing the origins of Islam. I am not fond of the hypothesis that lays it all at Petra.
@@davidmontoute2074 Sir I respect your learning a lot. The dispersed nestorian lakhmids and the directionless ghassanids united at some point. So why not in 622 ad when Arabia was surrounded from all sides by the Sassians?
@@indialover83 , hi. The Professor has since clarified (to Sneakers Corner) that he was referring to the account of John Bar Penkaye, written in the late 7th century. There is also a similar reference in Jacob of Edessa, i believe. Certainly, 622 is a key moment, and the point has been well made that conquerors don't start their calendar with a defeat (which is what the traditional Hijra story is). So yes, i agree that this date is important. I'm just keen to always be able to provide citations for any claim, especially for those that challenge the consensus opinion.
@@davidmontoute2074 Appreciate your reply sir. I wish you write books on this topic too. I'll see that video. Thank you. Wish me the best for my research too.
The Nabateans came from Petra, so that city is described in the Nabatean Book for pagans ! It has hills, Fig Trees Grow there, There is a River running through Petra, which is in a valley, yet the Muslims say that describes MECCA Not Petra, and Mecca Never Had any of those things. So why do the Muslims not question that truth and see that Petra was where their religion came from, and the Pagans that invented it ?
Petra at jordan?never heard prophet pray in there..or toward the petra..he never enter that place and avoid it..bcs that curse place.if ask jew where muslim used to pray b4 change to mecca..they will say jerusalem precisely like al quran mention..such a weird accustion.also try search video all jews say muslim doesnt do paganism but monothiesm..only christian does..normally people who say like that are people who lack knowledge..about direction worship fyi lot mosque b4 exist modern equipment to measure face same issue..event oldest mosque they change the direction after know it wrong.just weird non muslim barking about direction muslim pray..its worse if people doesnt pray..if direction matter..why muslim still pray on aeroplane and space??where the exact direction??allah say he create sun,moon,earth etc..talk about direction??
@@GardeniaInc It's not wierd that non muslims can see that the origins of Islam is a lie. As the man said Mecca and Mohammed are made up stories. The earliest mosques did face Petra. The Qurans own description of Mohammed birthplace does not describe Mecca. Mecca was pretty much unknown until well after Mohammed was said to live. Now Mecca is a huge tourist revenue source for Saudi. Details are important when exposing a lie. Just add to that the Kabba was a pagan worship site. The Muslims just appropriated it for their own commercial gain.
@Asadul Hasan Rasel There are many other aspects from the Hadiths and Quran that point to Petra as being the original Mecca such as the presence of a water course in the city where Mohammed would walk, the existence of city walls (which played a role in the battle of Ibn Zubair) but there is not evidence of city walls in Mecca. The geological structure of Petra such as the existence of a thanya as mentioned in the Hadith. Also all nations mentionedn in the Quran are from northern Arabia (Edom, Ud, Thamud, ...)
@Asadul Hasan Rasel Muhammed grew up in the Quraish tribe and in his community argued against his people. Since Petra was the traditional place of worshop of the Arabians it is very possible that even the majoiryt of people in that city were pagans... If you look at Mekka, the part north of the water course was inhabitated by christians (ruins of churches) while the southern part of the city is full of pagan temples (temple of dushara, inscriptions of Allat, Al Manat...)
@OTTO OCTAVIOUS Just a repetitive words from those who have no answer to Quran's authenticity. Quran is not a book of either science or it's a history book but word of God for those who seek guidance, not people like you who worship a human being assuming him as Son of God or those who don't believe in existence of God at all.
In a theological approach, no doubt. But here we are dealing with scholarship that must do hermeneutics, lexical analysis, historical framing, etc. We should not avoid that. Only enriches cultural interchange. Every religion has "hidden" roots, given the long time that passed and the nature of the numinous human experience. But we can trace influences, find historical contexts, etc.
This not really a contradiction of Islamic tradition that says it is a continuation of Judeo Christian tradition. Indeed the oral tradition says Islam is a continuation of *all* human religion. The more interesting question would be when and how Islam took its own identity.
The word paganism is the product of Christianity and expresses hatred towards pantheism. Romans did believe that the world and the gods were created by one god, the Father of all…… Christian theology and neoplatonism were closely related……. that is why the Roman empire flipped suddenly to Christianity…….
I doubt this. The dominant problem within Arabic cul;ture was its division and civil strive. The Islamic religion united the Arabs and was an important cause of the victories over the Byzantine and Zoroasthrian empires. For the first time in history had state-religion become leading in military expansion……..
They used Islam for hegemony. But it was logical that after conquering the Middle-East the division re-emerged and the Khalifate suffered from civil strive (720-760) Later would follow the struggle between Persian-muslim (Fatawid) and Arabs. The period 750-950aN has always been falsely proclaimed as the Golden Age of Islam. ARABIC SOCIETY DOES NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF THE NATIONSTATE AND WILL THEREFOR REMAIN IN A MEDIEVAL CULTURAL LEVEL. The Persians developed Iran to a grown up state and the Shia-muslims should therefor be supported by the West.
MARCION PHILOLOGOS because I'm Christian, then I will use Christians terminology. Islam was a pagan origin. I'm Indonesian and I know Islam better than you.
Battterian Evans just wake up and stood up against this stupid religion. I'm not stupid, I'm Indonesian and you are westerner. You know nothing about Islam.
And [mention, O Muhammad], when We took from the prophets their covenant and from you and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus, the son of Mary; and We took from them a solemn covenant.33:7
It must have been hard for Mormons (BYU) to hear someone in their midst say that Jesus is the Son of God in a Biblical way or argument. Mormons believe that the Father is God, the Son is God and the spirit is God, three seperate Gods.
Joseph, and thus the LDS, was all over the place when it comes to the Godhead. He started out as a "classical" trinitarian, then moved onto a modalist view of God, and then the polytheism that is currently expoused. By polytheism, we're not just talking about "three gods," but an unknown amount (possibly innumerable) of "gods," of which, they have no idea who the "supreme god" is.
@@e-college-sait Allah is who Jesus prayed to in his own language. If you’re Christian, be careful you don’t make a claim that’ll send you straight to hell.
Peter Townsend has authored a new book "the Mecca Mystery". It has some very surprising conclusions, one of which is the late appearance of Mecca. Others on this page have noted the same conclusion. But Peter Townsend has many more surprises that will give any thinking Muhammadan pause.
It was called Bacca long before. When Hagar and Ishmael settled there. The miracle of the well of Zam Zam happened when they first arrived there. There were no settlements until after they came. Only nomads passing by.
@@josiahbennett7573 Has nothing to do with language, whether Hebrew or Arabic (not “Islamic”). I was referring to history. The city we now know as Mecca or Makkah, was known as Becca long long ago. It was known as the valley of Becca, and Abraham brought Hagar there with baby Ishmael. The miracle of the well of ZamZam flowed out there for them.
@Islam Safari Because Islam has actually pagan origins. Petra was the seat of the Nabatean kingdom from where the Arabic language and script comes from. The early history of Islam begins there. In 731 Petra was destroyed by a quake. Mecca becomes the center of the story. Al Malik's family was from Mecca and injected Mecca into the story
@@johnmalcolm2028seems like you are one of those intellectually molested Christian who believes what his preacher says about islam and worships thier word without actually talking to a muslim
Only a few scholar know something. You need to contextualize, do lexical analysis, hermeneutics, read Syriac, Arabuc, Greek... not for all. I' talking of the scientific approach, not believing. Religions are many, thousands of gods were invented, everywhere.
You implying that the Quran was taking from previous revelations, it's coming from the same God. According to Quran, previous scriptures were corrupted. Quran corrected the corruptions.
In a layman's point of view it is surprising that islamic origins were prophesied in the Bible through the prophesies of Jesus, Moses and many other biblical prophets, but for the faithful it's a miraculous act of God..
If what you say is true, you would quote the bible chapter and verse and since you do not it is impossible to believe the lies you tell. What you say is obviouly Islamic rubbish. Mr. Ahmed. Please, Sir, we are not children.
In John chapters 14, 15 and 16 Jesus is seen prophesying someone, who will be called a spirit of truth (Al-Amin in Arabic) comforter (Mentioned mercy to the mankind in Qur'an) and some of his characteristics will leave you spellbound as it perfectly fit with last and final prophet of God Muhammed (pbuh) ==================== (1) may abide with you for ever; (By the finality of his teachings) (2) ye know him; for he dwelleth with you. (Because it's same teaching as Jesus) (3) shall teach you all things.. (Only a human can teach) (4) bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (Just as prophet did who spoke so well about Jesus and his mother) (5) the prince of this world cometh.. (Prophet would be sent for the whole world) (6) he shall testify of me.. (Only a human could testify, just as prophet) (7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that *I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you;* but if I depart, I will send him unto you (This can never be holy Ghost who is always with Jesus) (8) he will *reprove the world* of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: (Only a human can reprove, just as prophet did. No other person ever talked about sin, righteous deeds and judgement day, heaven and hell as clear and beautiful as prophet) (9) he will guide you into all truth.. (Perfecting the religion of God, as last and final prophet, just as prophet did) (10) for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.. (Talking about a HUMAN who listens to God's revelation and then speaks to people as per instructed) (11) and he will shew you things to come.. (Only a human can prophesy, just as prophet did prophesy many things that came to pass for the last 1400 years) (12) He shall glorify me. (Only a human can glorify, just as prophet spoke so well about Jesus and his mother) (13) he shall receive of mine.. (Source of the revelation is same, Almighty God) (14) and shall shew it unto you... (Only a human can deliver the message as received from the God)
There are no prophecies about Islam or Muhammad in the Bible or Torah, whether from a layman’s or scholars point of view. All prophecies in the Old Testament has been fulfilled in Jesus and any interpretation otherwise is futility
@@dennayeson There are dozens of prophesies in the old and new testament. But just think about this in John chapter 16 ===== 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (John 16:7-14) *HE HAS TO* 1 *Come* 2 *Reprove the world of sin* 3 *Reprove the world of righteous deeds* 4 *Reprove the world of judgement day* 5 *Guide the world into all truth* 6 *Hear (Listen to) the revelation* 7 *Speak (convey) it to the world* 8 *Prophesy many future events* 9 *Glorify Jesus* 10 *Receive the revelation from the same source* ONLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD DID ABOVE ALL...
You know about prophet Mohamed maybe 200 later through a biography.... We moslems know God revealed the Quran to Prophet Mohamed & if he had written it by himself properly i would assume he would have mentioned his name in the Quran more than 3 times as u mentioned.
There is an interesting remark by the Professor near the end... probably it was not a proper name but a kind of honourific "title". Other scholars agree.
I have to say it’s pretty interesting. The only issue I have with it is this is not the origins of Islam this is should be called Christianity in the Quran because the Quran has a lot more than what they say about Mary and Christ. There is more emphasis put in Abraham Unique that the Bible of the Torah and we have very similar stories. It seems they are explained more in details of the Quran and they make more sense the way are explained so it could be right that they have been reworked but again, we don’t know who wrote the Bible, so we do know that it was written 200 years after the fact, and several of writers and authors quite a few, and it’s been changed over the decades major changes where the Quran always has been one book and never been changed but I do know there are some sewer war not included. You also the hadeith so I guess we invented religion try to come up with version 3.0 Islam update and cover up all the patches so people hack and make alterations into it.
We do who wrote the Bible. You are just towing the line that was thought up 300 years after Muhammad. The Quran tells you to believe the Gospel the Torah and the Psalms. All of which were available to Muhammad in his day. We can even talk about how the Quran doesn't exist. What we have today is a Qitab/book.
Islam has great history from our father Adam(a s) to our beloved prophet (pbh)who was not the bigginers of ISLAM but to complete and sealed the releagies of the prophets before him,
Brother Peter von Sivers, greetings. May I ask why you find it impossible to believe that Qur'an Majid is truly God's words? You claimed that it is written by human being, but gave no reason, in your "solid scholarship" here.
Read it word for word .... It's doesn't reflect a godly person's nature...by 'humanity' standards....justifying that it was as per those times doesn't cut it, since a god's character is beyond time
@@schnellster1 thanks for reply. you said " It's doesn't reflect a godly person's nature...by 'humanity' standards." which part of qur'an majid you are referring to? or you only heard such matters and never really read it yourself?
Quran 25:5 And they say, “Legends of the former people which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon”. Quran 16:103 “And we certainly know that they say, “It is only a human being who teaches the prophet.” The tongue of the one they refer to is foreign, and this Qur’an is (in) a clear Arabic language”. When Muhammad started his teachings, the people accused him of retelling older stories which he had heard from people. Simply put, most of what Muhammed taught wasn’t new to the people and it was why most of them rejected him until Islam became dominant through wars. If you read Syriac stories before Islam, you’ll realise that Muhammed borrowed a lot of stories which were already known in Arabia. Even some stories from Gnostic gospels that were rejected by Christians are found in the Quran. When I read Quran, I feel like it’s book made up of Jewish and Christian Scriptures with a little twist, Gnostic gospels, Arab myths, Jewish traditions, Arab poems before Islam and Arab pagan practises and beliefs. It’s the reason why Peter Von Singers believe the Quran is from men and not God. He did an interview about the same topic with Derek on the TH-cam channel “MythVision” and it’s even better than this lecture. Try and watch it.
See above. The Koran includes a lot of recycled stories that predate Islam. Hard to be a revelation from Allah even they were already well known. The sleepers, blowing life into clay birds and even the crucifixion story all predate Islam by hundreds of years. Q5.32 is from the Talmud and of course Dhu Al-karnayne is an old story about Alexander the Great.
@@edward1412 I read some of the comments on this post and I am appalled by the comments, I used to believe that I can trust intelligent people for their reasoning power, today I believe differently, going forward I will only follow the wise, you made some claims that is truly laughable, Jesus peace be upon him said all of our troubles comes from our elders, today I am a witness to what he said, I have never seen so much people in a forum for learning make fools of themselves and not realizing the sin that they have incurred. Are you aware that a challenge from the Quran has not been met for over 14 centuries, here it is: Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’” (Quran 17:88) This is the shortest chapter in the Quran One Chapter This final challenge was to produce even a single chapter to match what is in the Quran, whose shortest chapter, al-Kawthar, consists of only three verses: baqara-1 “And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.” (Quran 2:23) These challenges were not just empty words with no one caring to prove them wrong. Prophet Muhammad’s call to monotheism, to the abolition of idolatry in all its forms, and to the equality of slaves and their masters, threatened the whole socio-economic framework of Mecca society in general, and the position of the ruling Quraishee tribe from which the Prophet (S) came in particular. Mecca, the trading center of Arabia, as well as its spiritual center, desperately wanted to stop the spread of Islam. Yet all that the Prophet’s opponents had to do to crush the movement was to make up a single chapter like any one of those which the Prophet (S) and his followers were reciting to the people. A number of Quraishee orators and poets tried to imitate the Quran, but they failed. They then resorted to offering him vast amounts of wealth, the position of king over them, and the most noble and beautiful of their women in exchange for his promise to stop inviting people to Islam. He responded to them by reciting the first thirteen verses of Chapter Fussilat, until they asked him to stop. [1] The Quraish also resorted to torturing their slaves and relatives who had embraced Islam in a vain attempt to cause them to revert to paganism. Later, they organized an economic boycott against the Prophet (S) his followers and the members of his clan, Banu Hashim, in an attempt to starve them into submission. But even this plan eventually failed. Finally, they plotted to kill him in his home by sending armed young men from each of the clans of Quraish in order that the guilt of his murder be shared by all the clans, making revenge by the Prophet’s clan impossible.
To the brazilien lady asking how could the muslims explain that Jesus is not devine, i say, well the christians couldn't explain it either! And that exactly why they were at war with each other before islam came.
Few arguments from Quran - Jesus and His mother used to eat food (They need to defecate which is unbelievable for muslim that God must look for Rock and bush to defecate) - Similarity of Jesus is like Adam. God created Adam from dust easily. So it was easy for God almighty to create Jesus without Father. From Bible itself there is no explicit Statement from Jesus that He is God and people should worship him. Saying a man is God is a serious claim. Need a clear direct statement from Jesus made in repetition accross bible. Also trinitarian was later invention. Jesus and holy spirit got voted in 2 separated council to be put in to divinity.
Though you claimed yourself to bee a good historian several times, I'm sorry to say, you're not, although, in a half articulates way, you couldn't make clear how totally monotheism of Islam fits any of several versions of christianity, That's why you couldn't became a full professor even at such old age.
That’s a rather bold claim you’re making. What’s your background/ resumé? Are you also a historian? A professor in religious studies maybe? Or are you just an apologetic keyboard warrior, who anonymously bashes academics on the internet? 🤔
My understanding is that von Sivers gave a background to what influenced Islam, their attitude towards Christians as polytheists because of Tritheists, which led them to emphasize Tawhid, ie singleness of God etc. And thus he explained their emergence from the Christian Christology battles (Monophysites and their various factions, Orthodox Christians, Nestorians etc.)
You can be kind in your words. Christianity was by no means one body, even in the micro heretical sects. Islam borrows its image of Jesus from the Gnostics, particularly a desert father called Basilides of the third century ad. Now where the illiterate prophet Muhammad got this stream of thought from, is open for research...
actually this speech is more informative about Late Antiquity Christian variant movements then about the origin of Islam. He does however make the theory of Christoph Luxemburg that the oldest texts of the Quran were written in the linga franca of those days, nl Syro Aramaic, it bit more plausable ( without mentioning it ).
If the historicity of Muhammed is problematic, then that of Jesus is much more so. There is barely a mention of Jesus around his time outside Christian religious texts. By the way, I am not a muslim nor an apologist of any kind. Just stating facts
So you think JESUS never existed? Are you therefor implying: JOHN the BAPTIST whom bare witness to JESUS CHRIST - was he a liar? HEROD the king who wanted to kill all children under a certain age because of the birth of CHRIST also a liar? Are all the disciples too are liars? Are the RABBI'S that handed CHRIST over to be crucified are liars? Was PILATE a liar? Was the CENTURION who witnessed CHRIST on the cross and plunged the spear into him also a liar? But most importantly. Have you made GOD a liar? For it is written: 1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. Amen. The Holy Bible came along; long before you and I was ever thought of by GOD. Eye witness accounts of JESUS CHRIST. Miracles of healing a blind man and many other miracles that was not recorded. JESUS was seen by thousands of people during that period. JESUS died on the cross and Yes he died for our sins so that we can be saved in the age to come. You also need to know that many, many people have died writing The word of GOD for us all to understand. Prophets and Disciples were tortured and killed to give us this Holy Book. You should truly take it more seriously. Romans 1:16-18 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Amen
32:33 He said that the war turned around miraculously. This was prophecised in the Quran back then, that the Romans were defeated, but they will be victorious in less than 10 years, despite how unlikely it seemed. Ar-Rum (2) - The Romans (2) The Romans have been defeated, In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious. Within a few years. To Allah belonged the matter before and (to Him it belongs) thereafter. And on that day the believers will rejoice, with Allah's help. He helps whomsoever He wills. And He is the Mighty, the Very-Merciful. It is a promise of Allah. Allah does not fail in His promise, but most of the people do not know.
Forgive the impudence, but it is so tempting to think that god could have done a little better job of revealing himself to ALL humanity, if that is what he/it/whatever was trying to accomplish, rather than so much vague mystery and arbitrary tribalism as surrounds Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and all taking place in only one small part of the world during a relatively small chunk of earth time..
Oh? Do you think if Jesus came today, anyone would give him a second listen? "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth" doesn't make much of an impact on people who are fed "gender fluidity."
Thank you professor for the excellent lecture about the prevailing theological argument around the sixth century . However, I would like to point out that in response to the lady,s question that Allah created Jesus just as he created Adam ( Quran 66:12 and 3:59) . Both Jesus and Adam were mentioned 25 times each in the Quran. Also Adam descended from heaven and Jesus will descend from heaven Also the place where the first revelation was in Mecca is Hiraa( حراء) which is different from Hirah (حيره) the capital of the Lakhamid Munthers dynasty . In fact there is more in common between Christianity and Islam than we all think.All we need is just open minds and objectivity.
The islamic population increased with the help of Sword 🗡️ Bullet Force,, poor illiterate peoples,,many a times educated fools also converted to Islam. In islamic countries , womens are targeted,, no liberty for womens,, womens are production machine for 20/30/50 Kids... HALALA for womens, Triple TALAK for womens,, even only mens are getting 72 Hoors with very big size Breasts. Now a days, Quaran written/modified by Mullah, Moulavee's are read by Islamic peoples, which mentioned "other than Muslims, all peoples are KAAFIR & to be killed..This is the moto of Islam..
'Islam is not the learning of the truth in GOD but rather the delusional training of the mind to think it is the truth in a God'. Who is that God? Al lah Al lat Al Uzza Manat. Pagan.
These pagan idols, allat, al uzza and al manat, are actually mentioned by name in the Qur'an. Qur'an, 53:19-23: "Now, have you considered the idols of Al-Lat and Al-Uzza? and the third one, Manat, as well? Do you ˹prefer to˺ have sons while ˹you attribute˺ to Him daughters? Then this is ˹truly˺ a biased distribution! These ˹idols˺ are mere names that you and your forefathers have made up1-a practice Allah has never authorized. They follow nothing but ˹inherited˺ assumptions and whatever ˹their˺ souls desire, although ˹true˺ guidance has already come to them from their Lord. " The Qur'an is quite clear that worship of allat, al uzza and manat is a very bad and foolish thing. I can say with confidence that you would never be able to find a single person who claims to be Muslim and who claims to worship allat, al uzza or manat. If anyone did, it would be such a huge sin that they would not be considered Muslim.
Why does he ignore the hadith? His naivety about explaining the 'Christian roots' of Islam to a jihadi is stunning. The questioner he's addressing is exceedingly ignorant.
I'm an Arab from the gulf and its uncontested that the earliest Muslim accounts were written 150 years after the prophet died during the abbasid empire. The hadith was compiled even later by about 250 years after Islam
@@wishyouthebest9222Ziauddin Sardar, writing for the New Statesman, said that the book seemed to be tailored to suit the rise in Islamophobic sentiments around the globe, and presented a grand narrative based on works of a "largely discredited group of orientalists", whose ample criticisms Holland seemed to be ignorant about.[5] He finished his critique with "I find Holland’s total dismissal of Muslim scholarship arrogant (which I know he is not), insulting (which I know he does not mean to be) and based on spurious scholarship (though his scholarship is usually sound)."
The speaker is talking about Christianity at about the start of Islam. About 600 AD. This takes place in a LDS compound which, states it main reason for coming into being is the extinction of Christianity?
Solid information based on the preceding centuries quran emerged in. They examine data in the era proto Islam emerged and the absence of Islamic literature abt Islam.. a biography over 200 years later hadiths are too late. Also current research on the milieu in Arabia confirming these hypotheses. No polytheism after 4th/5thC by epigraphic data. No archaeological historical evidence of makka. Quranic Arabic isn't from Hijaz..
From the beginning of the lecture the lecturer try to inject the idea that there is Quran before the Quran as it seems he is very bothered by recent discoveries that the Quran really existed as reported as as shown for instance by The Birmingham Quran manuscript that is a parchment on which two leaves of an early Quranic manuscript are written. In 2015 the manuscript, which is held by the University of Birmingham, was radiocarbon dated to between 568 and 645 CE. Any historian should know that C14 gives an interval where a given discovery can be traced in time not the exact date. Same applies to Sanaa manuscript. The lecturer also showed a clear ignorance of The Quran as shown in his understanding of the concept of mushrikun مشركون that remains related to the act of شرك verve: اشرك to associate with God other divinity. It is why in order to be Muslim should continuously fight that during her/ his own life as it is clearly formulated in the key to enter the world of Islam as defined in the Quran: اشهد ان لا الاه الا الله I bear witness that there is no god but God. where the first half shows the need to bear in mind and to struggle till the end to show in practice that : There is no god to continue the journey approaching the only Real God. It is why you become Muslim by declaring: There is no god but God , and you say the same while dying at the end of your life-journey.. The lecturer also failed, for the same reason that his ignorance of the Quran, to answer the first question that the Quran answered more than14 hundreds years ago regarding Jesus peace be upon him and why he is not god - that Jesus himself never said as demonstrated by scholars of the New Testament as Bart Ehrman-. Here is the answer of the Quran for the first question: إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَىٰ عِندَ اللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ ۖ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ (الاعراف: 59) Al-araaf- chapter7: verse 59. Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is. that also shows the lecture ignorance of the Kalima as a Quranic concept that can be seen in the verse 59 as the divine order “Be” that remains related to the sphere of order that control and remains above the sphere of laws. The plural of Kalima كلمة is Kalimat كلمات, and the Quran use that same concept to show the infinite number of God’s Kalimat as in : قُل لَّوْ كَانَ الْبَحْرُ مِدَادًا لِّكَلِمَاتِ رَبِّي لَنَفِدَ الْبَحْرُ قَبْلَ أَن تَنفَدَ كَلِمَاتُ رَبِّي وَلَوْ جِئْنَا بِمِثْلِهِ مَدَدًا (الكهف:109) Al-Kahn- Chapter18: verse109. Say: Though the sea became ink for the Words of my Lord, verily the sea would be used up before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even though We brought the like thereof to help. Also in Chapter #31, Verse #27: وَلَوْ أَنَّمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ مِن شَجَرَةٍ أَقْلَامٌ وَالْبَحْرُ يَمُدُّهُ مِن بَعْدِهِ سَبْعَةُ أَبْحُرٍ مَّا نَفِدَتْ كَلِمَاتُ اللَّهِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ . (لقمان:27) 27. And if all the trees in the earth were pens, and the sea, with seven more seas to help it, (were ink), the words of Allah could not be exhausted. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise. God’s words are manifest in what He revealed ( reference of meaning & guidance) as in al-Kahf, and also infinitely manifest in Gods creations. Therefore Jesus peace be upon him is one of his creation as shown in al-araaf-chapter 7above. the Quran also advance more rational arguments why Jesus cannot be God.,For instance in chapter5:verse 75 مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلَّا رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ صِدِّيقَةٌ ۖ كَانَا يَأْكُلَانِ الطَّعَامَ ۗ انظُرْ كَيْفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ الْآيَاتِ ثُمَّ انظُرْ أَنَّىٰ يُؤْفَكُونَ (المائدة: 75) 75. The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away! Also in ch5:v17 لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ ۚ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئًا إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِي الْأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا ۗ وَلِلَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا ۚ يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاءُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ (المائدة:17) 17. They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things. the other bias is to base the lecture on the idea that all others history is well known (Romans, Persians, Christians, you name it), but the history of early Islam that reshaped the whole world and remains alive with its early events till nowadays should me totally ignored. Thank you for sharing.. God Knows best.
Let's look at these claims. "enslave": Qur'an, 90:11-13 "If only they had attempted the challenging path of good?" "And what will make them recognize the challenging path of good?" "It is to free a slave" "rape/endorse pedophilia" I assume you're talking about his marriage to our spiritual mother Aisha(RA) . There's really an intuitive answer to this: People then matured faster than people now, physically and mentally. + Aisha(RA) showed no signs of being abused, she was quite extroverted at times, even leading an army into battle against Ali(RA). + to be consistent with this idea, you'd have to maintain that the majority of people up to the 18th ish century were pedophiles because their spouses were, what would be considered to day, quite young. This is anachronistic, because of course, they matured faster during those times. "Test ˹the competence of˺ the orphans until they reach a marriageable age. Then if you feel they are capable of sound judgment, return their wealth to them." Extract from Qur'an 4:6, which clearly mentions the concept of marriageable age. "murder" "Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. " Extract from Qur'an 5:32. Coming down very harshly on murder, in my opinion, saying that it is as if you've killed all of mankind.
With due respect to the senior scholar, he gives me an impression that he hasn't yet fully understood the abc of Islam or he is here to deliberately misguide the people.
@@sidprice6214 All very confusing, there should be one God and one religion we are all children of Abraham. Why the distinction from the children from Ismael and Isaac. God said himself that the descendants from Ismael would be troublesome or Ishmael himself would be troublesome.
@@johnswinkels4383 It is actually quite straight forward. It is One God, one religion, one Book and one Family. This is stated in the Quran. Careful reading of Genesis will also show this. The distinction came about because Abraham's first wife Sarah was barren. Abraham's second wife Hagar produced his first son Ishmael from which the Muslims have sprung. Abraham's second son Isaac (by 14 years) is from Sarah. From Isaac we get Jacob followed by his 12 sons the 4th being called Judah. After Nebuchednessar wiped out the northern kingdom pretty much on Judahs tribe called Jews survived
Islam is not a race. It's a religion. And maybe he though they weren't interested in a scholarly view of Islam. I would think the same, after all the probability of them hearing something they don't like is high.
Since the word "muhammad" means the praised one, and in Syriac Aramaic language is written the same way as in Arabic, hence "Muhammad" receiving revelation is actually referring to Jesus. There's no mention of Islamic Muhammad being a prophet nor was the Quran revealed to him anywhere in the Quran.
I don’t see any evidence for anything un-natural, therefore I am not convinced that there is anything unnatural or supernatural like magic, ‘jadoo’, spirits, ghost, ‘jins’, ‘rooh’ and gods . originally from Karachi Pakistan and Teer Haripur Hazaara, now ex-Muslim Atheist ,
@@noman8193 one can believe in evil without having to follow a stone licking pagan who makes two billion people bow down and pray to a temple full of idols.
"Be, and it is" or in Arabic "كُن فَيَكُونُ". This is the basic corner stone of Islamic theology I am surprised the professor didn't know. God simply commands the existence and it is. Adam had no father and it is no surprising feat that God can create another just like him again.
Interesting story, but it doesn't address many facts, like, how Quran has this consistency if multiple authors wrote it? How come no one in the community of early Muslims blew the whistle on the origin of the Quran, as this learned professor discovered it after 1500 years in the present time? It is an entertaining but comical theory!
It would be interesting if you were able to find documents about The Prophet from the +_200 yr gap Severs is talking about. Remember also that the lecture isn't meant to be questioning a Muslims' faith in God,..... it is simply looking for historical documents describing the origins of that expression of faith.
Consistency? Not the case. Like the Old Testament (much vaster) or the Gospels. These have doublets, contradictions, multiple detectable ecletic sources, etc. Complex texts. Of course it was compiled later. The Old Testament also, with stories like the Deluge received in Babylonia; the Gospels were written after aprox. 40 years in Greek. They speak about Jesus born and jump to his 33rd year. Well... religions. We need to believe in something.
As a former Christian, now Muslim, well versed in early Church history I spent 20 minutes listening to a talk about Nestorianism and other Christian heresies....not material about Islam! Get to the point!!!
@Daisy. The point is Islam being an off shoot of Christianity was corrupted by a vile, psychotic 7th. century warlord, calling himself prophet for political gains.
Korean Buddhist traveler, Hyecho reached Persia and Arabia in 8th century never mentions anything about "Islam" or "Muslims". He mentions that Persians still practiced Zoroastrianism under Arab rule.
They slowly embraced islam over several centuries
In the 6th century an indian king cheraman perumal fron kerala india visited arabia and became muslim.
I liked professors knowledge but he leans to present fron christian thinker. He should know that In the Quran, Gabriel appears named in 2:92-96, 2:97 and 66:4.
Please tell me about the source. I like to read that.
@@yusufsagri9192 Islam didn't exist in the 6th century, that's impossible.
That sounds rights. Even in the 7th century among the Christians, there is no credible evidence of Muslims or a prophet Muhammad. Islam came far later. Everything of the known Middle East - the Fertile Crescent - was Christian, Jewish, and a few polytheist. The story of Muslims storming out of desert to conquer the Middle East is fanciful. Real evidence suggests something far more boring.
Having so deep and so vast information is something, but the ability to present it so clearly, and so good reasoned, in so short time, is something else. As a person with Islamic background, I have worked a little on this topic, and I have to admit that this presentation is astonishingly excellent, thank you.
There is no mention of any Arabic prophet, of Mecca, of the black stone, of the Palestinian (= the philistin, the enemy of the King David ) in the Quran. Islam as a religion was fabricated outside the book, the Quran. Muhammad is a divine title, not a name, which points to .....the Messiah = the Christ = the God of Israel incarnated as King in Zion ( Jerusalem).
@@tyh3120
And what is the relevance of all these with my comment
The islamic population increased with the help of Sword 🗡️ Bullet Force,, poor illiterate peoples,,many a times educated fools also converted to Islam.
In islamic countries , womens are targeted,, no liberty for womens,, womens are production machine for 20/30/50 Kids...
HALALA for womens, Triple TALAK for womens,, even only mens are getting 72 Hoors with very big size Breasts.
Now a days, Quaran written/modified by Mullah, Moulavee's are read by Islamic peoples, which mentioned "other than Muslims, all peoples are KAAFIR & to be killed..This is the moto of Islam..
Sorry mate. This brutal.
in philosophy class years ago we learned about the concept of God being transcendent which I struggled to understand. however this professor mentions this at 48:45 and says that it means "you can't say anything about Him" and I finally understood it in just that one phrase! what a great lecturer.
No one can deny that Jesus was a manifestation of God.Jesus performed Miracles that no one has been able to deny.
@@samuelpitt5416 Right. But how is that relevant to my comment?
@@samuelpitt5416 I deny your mythology.
@Dharma Defender careful, you meant "immanent " not " imminent".
@@samuelpitt5416 I deny your fairy tales and magic stories.
Love this lecture, I am not historian lover, but people live without knowing the history, they are lost, because since they were born the history started recorded their life. Thank you Sir for your time and science explanation..
I was born in Algeria, and I always asked myself how did Islam spread so quickly in north africa, and we managed to reconquer Iberia in 711. In fact, we were still christians at that time, Islam was not born yet !
@Bhi fee ha ha... Christianity is a paganism..
@Bhi fee imagine, prostrating 5 times a day and the numbers is increasing, while Christianity you have to pray only once a week and yet it is dwindling....I wonder why?
@Bhi fee in your dream... You didn't read your bible properly...
Jesus was not God... Give me a reference where jesus said I am God,worship me... Today I will convert to Christianity
@@asifhossain8618 "Before Abraham was I AM"
@@debbiewilson7725 I'm sorry, what are you suggesting by pointing out Jesus thought he preexisted somehow before Abraham?
Thank you for bringing this lecture from Professor Sivers to a wider audience.
I would love to discuss with the Professor his opinion of the influence of Neoplatanist thought (that the "One" is transcendent and can only be accessed via the two emanations of the "One") had on the various early Christian factions and the formation of Islamic theology?
Interesting point, indeed.
@@rukk_tx5285 thank you
Notice these important timelines:
602 AD the Persians kill Nu’man bin Munthir, the last Lakhmid king, their vassal.
603-628 war with Byzantines.
610 AD combined Arab tribes reorganize and beat Persians at the battle of Dhi Qaar.
628-632 Persian civil war
636 - 644 conquest of the sassanid empire by Arabs
The most likely explanation is, the followers of the murdered Arab king in 602 reorganized, and took advantage of the vacuum created by the Sassanid Byzantine war, and conquered the area. These people were Christians.
Perhaps more research is needed into the next few centuries when Islam is born and adopted by the State, and history is re written.
Incredibly, Quran is extremely vague about these events, it’s as if a lot of texts have been redacted. In one Sura named after the Romans “Rum, it sounds like Quran is celebrating Byzantine victory over the Persians or predicting it with hope and joy, it goes something like this: Rome is defeated, but they become victorious and the believers will rejoice…. It’s an extremely strange and out of place verse if you are familiar with Quran. Almost certain the context of it and perhaps similar verses have been removed.
Given the corruption (and wilful interpretations) it's necessary to focus on the tangible, of which their isn't a lot. Which in itself is damning for the Islamic narrative, which claims 5 great caliphs not only formed a new religion but also one of the largest empires ever seen. But yet left no solid, tangible evidence. No buildings, no memorials etc. Even written references are vague and very few.
But the damning evidence is the Umayyad coins that have clear Christian imagery. More damning is the coin with a Jesus like figure, two crosses and the abbreviation for Muhammad, the blessed one, on it.
Fascinating comment. One thing is clear, the bulk of the various Arab (both Christian and Pagan) kingdoms, sick of being mercenaries and vassals for Rome and Persia, were ready for a opportunity to unite and put all they had learned as warriors, diplomats, priests and merchants to create their own empire. Its the oldest military tale in the books, "mercenaries (barbarians?) rise up and overtake their patrons." I think watching Game of Thrones (particularly seasons 3-5) with the rise of the snake cult is the closest you can get to seeing how a religion/belief system can be used to assist in building a nation-state. Its not the ONLY thing you need, but its crucial.
@@juniorjames7076 Sassanid researchers all agree in the last decades of the empire the demographics of Mesopotamia and western iran had changed, more Arab/semites, less Iranians, even the language at the Sassanid court was gradually being replaced by Aramaic. It’s another old tale of the more advanced and prosperous population going into demographic decline and being replaced by incorporated barbarians.
Later the Abbasids in their rewriting of the history of these events, they squeezed these century long events into a decade and by necessity creating a few super men like Umar and Ali to do these miraculous works, I think generally how all nation/state legends work, slow events are squeezed into a short time and super men are created to carry out those impossible actions.
@@AJayQDR well said.
On the contrary to the Bible with all its contradictory numerous versions , No deletion or addition whatsoever of a single verse in the Quran has been proven .
The Quran was not revealed to be book of history, in fact very few historical events are mentioned throughout the chapters ; all of which are "vaguely” referred to as not to dive into the bits and pieces of those events rather than illuminating their moral.
In surat Al-Room the verses do predict and celebrate the upcoming victory of the Romans (Al-Room) over the Persians ;although not named in the Surah as the details are not the purpose at all. The news do fill the hearts of the believers with joy as the Romans being Christians (people of the book) defeating the pagan Persians resembles the moslems in their struggle against the pagan Arabs.
Very interesting! Most historians i have heard begin the islamic origin discussion with earliest islamic and non muslim sources after 634. This is brilliant
Wonderful presentation. Thank you, sir.
Was looking for exactly this kind of sober voice...hope I find more of him.
1 All early mosques point to Petra
2 All geographic clues in Koran fit Petra but don't fit Mecca
3 Trading route went through Petra, and Mecca was unknown in any writing of the time
4 Koran claims Christians believed Mary was part of the Trinity, showing the writer had a poor understanding of actual Christology of any sort
5 The Nabatean script is the basis for the Koran
6 Allah and his 2 daughters are part of Nabateans
7 The Koran says "the prophet" has frequent interactions with 3 tribes that surround Petra which is 600 miles north of Mecca
There's more which he avoids. Islam is a mishmash of Christian, Judaism and Nabatean paganism, not just Christianity. This guy avoids these topics. He probably wants to keep his funding and his head on his shoulder.
He also avoids the main impediment to Islamic research: the violence which scholars face. Such violence was present in Christianity during the middle ages, but quickly faded after the reformation of 1500s. Islam now is as violently opposed to scholars as ever.
This entire lecture is severely limited by the fear if the speaker.
JR Rodriguez
How do you know the 3 tribes mentioned in the Quran are from around Petra?
I also believe Petra to be the center of Muhammads preaching but I haven't looked much into the tribes in and around Petra.
Have done no research on this topic at all. I am fully reliant for youtube videos of Jay Smith. I am no scholar of this area at all. I will not spend the time to seriously research this topic. I am a physician and biochemist who does peripheral NIH human trials research on new drugs, has a private medical practice and best knows single carbon human metabolism. I apologize if I gave any impression that I know anything from primary sources.
JR Rodriguez WELL DONE MY FRIEND😁
I first read Koran 43 years ago as an agnostic along with various Hindu, Bhuddist, Shinto and many philosophers looking for Truth. Of all, I found the Koran the most boring, absurd and violent of all. Especially boring, as well as disjointed and capricious. As a literary work it is poor. I would add that when I first read the Bible as an agnostic I was stunned by how different it is from all other books I have ever read. I have been a Christian 42 years now. However, my source is Jay Smith. I am by no means well versed in Islam. I am not fit to debate this.
In famous mosque in Istanbul, original facing by prayer leader faced possibly PETRA. You can clearly see that current facing of Mecca is actually create the other followers praying nit in same line or curve.Intriguing that No one answered why it was so. changed
Does anyone know what is his book’s name and where can be bought from? Thanks
is this lecture available as PDF?
Yes - in these comments there is a link to file "von-sivers-islamic-origins-byu-lecture" which that person very helpfully transcribed
I am from Tigrai and this explains why Syrian monks preached Christianity to us.
This is fascinating. I don't know if he has much more than inference for his ideas that many of the other Arabs were Christian, but it does make some things link together.
He is a Christian extremest idiot trying to fool the people. Islam-phobic colonialists richest idiot don’t make any sense.
No arabics were not Christains arabs do not believe Jesus is Gods son only a profet
@@josiahbennett7573 To the contrary, the whole region was very Christianized but I don't agree that Islam came from Christianity. Islam is more Jewish than Christian. The key to understanding Islam would be to understand groups of people like the Saracens who lived in the outskirts of parts of Fertile Crescent and were usually very anti-Roman. They simply called themselves believers which is very generic. Believers like Jews or Christians? Not much information. But one thing is clear, the Saracens after conquering Jerusalem were interested in what used to be the Temple Mount. Suggesting they leaned toward Jewish tradition than Christian. I think the generic term like believers suggests there was a mix of Abrahamic faiths and Islam was created to consolidate the regions in order to create unification later on AFTER the conquests. People would go to pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Considering that Mecca is only mentioned once in the Quran, Mecca in Islam is actually suppose to be Jerusalem because that is where everybody went to for pilgrimage from all over, perhaps even the Saracens themselves. Even the Quran writers, may be more Jewish than Christian to the point of they would confuse Miriam, sister of Aaron, and Moses, the daughter of Imran, as the Mary who gave birth to Jesus, which they lived a thousand years apart from the Mary Christians consider the be the mother of Jesus. This is a comical error for somebody who is schooled in the New Testament knowing that the Old Testament is much older. The error suggests the Quran was a tool to create new scripture (based on old) to accommodate Jesus into Judaism or Judiac understanding. This error also counters Von Sivers point, Islam could not come from Christianity, at least, not directly, however how many heresies, or schism that occurred in the empires. It is Arab Jews, not Christian Arabs. Jews and Christians were enemies during this period and the enmity between the two would likely extended to the Arabs of both denominations. However, when "Arabs" did capture huge swaths of land, they simply could not remove the Christians. They were too vital for the economy and administration of the regions they always operated.
@@josiahbennett7573 Jews do not believe Jesus was God's prophet, but the Christian Arabs did. They just went a step further and created their own prophet.
No mention of any Arabic Prophet, of Mecca, of the black stone, of the Palestinian (= the philistin, the enemy of the King David). Islam as a religion was fabricated outside the book, the Quran. Muhammad is a divine title, not a name, which points to the Messiah= the Christ = the God of Israel incarnated as King in Zion ( Jerusalem).
One of the very greatest and scholarly lectures about Islam and ME . Thank you
"Nestorian Christianity ... believes in the two equal natures of Jesus ... fully human and also God" - that's actually the Catholic/Orthodox/Chalcedonian creed. Nestorians distinguish the two natures so much that this results in two separate persons.
His description of Monophystism is even more off.
It would be more accurate to say that Nestorianism emphasizes the distinction between Christ's 2 natures, sometimes turning them into 2 separate persons, whereas Monophysitism stresses the unity of Christ's Person, sometimes disregarding the distinctions of the 2 natures.
@fynes leigh it's theological and historical education, assembled from many sources. But any scholarly work on the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon will Teller you that. Finding the latter council's definitions (binding on both the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Church, opposed to Nestorians and Monophysites) online shouldn't be difficult.
Agreed, I am one who does NOT accept the council of Chalcedon for many reasons, including the unjust treatment of Nestor. I fully accept Nicea I.
fynes leigh I see no reason for st r to bother citing what is easily available, and you sir are ad hominem.
JR Rodriguez The "unjust treatment of Nestor[ius] by the Council of Chalcedon"? He was neither a participant nor the issue at that Council...
Nestorianism has the problem of how to maintain the unity of Christ. Yes, he is divine and human but there would have to be two persons. Monophysitism holds that He is principally divine and that the human nature tends to dissolve as a drop in the ocean. The Christian Orthodox position held by Catholics, Orthodox in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople and also most Protestants, follow the doctrine defined at the Council of Chalcedon of 451, according to which Christ is one, a single person which is the divine Person and two distinct natures, not dissolved. This takes hat is correct in both Nestorianism and Monophysitism. The crux of this matter is to be able to distinguish between the person and nature. This was achieved by St. Augustine and others.
Only issue I see is his choice of black text on a blue background. It is hard to read the text.
Must not much said
The Professor confused what the Immaculate Conception is with what is the incarnation or the annunciation. The Incarnation or Annunciation is what he described. Jesus not having a Biological Father. Being conceived miraculously in Mary’s womb without having relations with a man. The Immaculate Conception is not this. The immaculate Conception is Mary being conceived in her mother, Ann’s womb, without having Original Sin attached to her soul. So MARY is the Immaculate Conception.
ONLY the Son of YAHWEH was IMMACULATELY conceived; NONE other; not Mary of Nazareth, not you or me!! YAHSHUA was PERFECT in ETERNAL Past and still PERFECT in ETERNAL Future! He did NOT abandon His PERFECTION anytime between the ETERNAL PAST and the ETERNAL FUTURE!! Therefore, WHY should he NEED a PERFECT and SINLESS mother to conceive Him and give BIRTH to the Son of YAHWEH! If MARY was to be conceived SINLESS as well, then her PARENTS her biological parents MUST be SINLESS too ALL their lives! Yes or NO!! Agree??? Why NOT???
@@mikesamuel9175 source?
That is a typical catholic interpretation. Jesus was immaculate in conception against all other people (Mary included) which are sinful by nature according to the Word of God.
Yes so many people mix the two, it's infuriating
@@e-college-sait Your personal denomination & your thoughts about Catholicism are irrelevant to the issue here, the issue here is that the term IMMACULATE has a precisely defined meaning and it is used in relation to MARY's conception and birth - which involved CARNAL CONSORT of her parents, unlike Jesus's; Jesus "who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary, and was made man"
In other words, Mary is "immaculate" even though her mother was not a virgin and had sex with her father. That's why we do not use the word "immaculate" in relation to Jesus. Capisce?
How ironic. If you compare the story of Mohamed with the story of Joseph Smith, they are eerily similar.
Joseph Smith was a warlord too?
@@bavariancarenthusiast2722 I should have been more specific. The stories of how Smith and Mohamed received the word of god are very similar. But good of you to acknowledge the violent ways employed by the founder of the religion of peace!
@@F1since79 yes Mohammed was a warlord first and conquerer in his time. That might explain the violence which is prevalent with parts of the Islam unfortunately.
52:20 there is a huge difference between the city of Hira حيرة and the cave of Hiraa' حراء
in Arabic they are two different words with different spelling. in English you cannot write them
differently because some sounds are not possible to write in english.
or hamza sound (ء). additionally they come from two different roots. every word in arabic has a verb root.
it is like an arab mistaking the words vague and fake because of the lack of V sound in arabic and then saying the are identical words.
this is a very unfortunate mistake. it reflects great lack of understanding. very symbolic of western scholarship in the topic of early islamic history.
@Shashank Tripathi orientalists are lying to you. The Sanaa mosque was built during the time of the prophet and it was precisely directed to Makkah. Early caliphs are practical no need to destroy the coin 🤷♂️ the way you talk shows that you are extremely ignorant you should keep your mouth shut 🤐
@Shashank Tripathi If you think all Muslims are born liars, it means you are a bigot. bigotry and stupidity are two faces of the same coin. I suggest you heal yourself of your own ignorance first. Your ignorance and hatred towards Muslims will lead you astray. everything you said appeals to the unlearned and the biased. I have shown in my first comment the level of academic credibility the speaker of the video has when they mixed up two different arabic words to make a point. This should highlight his lack of knowledge. You on the other hand do not deserve to be refuted because your stupidity is taking care of it for me.
@Shashank Tripathi Peace and blessings be upon his prophet Muhammad. Long after you are dead and forgotten, Muhammad will be praised in all corners of earth. Just as he was praised before his birth in all ancient scriptures. While you are going to be forgotten the moment you perish. You were born worthless, living like a loser, and you will die a nobody. It’s fine! You can have a couple of minutes to curse at muslims who brought culture and civilization to your ancestors who were living in ignorance and filth
@Shashank Tripathi Mooooooooo (a message by your lord)
@Shashank Tripathi it takes time to print your own currency and they didn’t destroy any church or tried to cover any painting why they care about some painting in a coin. Another reason for not printing new coins that they had too many public servant who were not Muslim and speak no Arabic changing the whole governing system wasn’t necessary.
He takes a while but he finally strings it altogether. Good Job!!
@WE DEM BOYZ, what a nice potty 🚽 mouth you have, Abdul!
@WE DEM BOYZ, you are out of line pal. Don’t get your account blocked.
have u read quran jo
@@lufayoubhopes8997 why?
@@mrmighty9862 actually you should read chapter 4 women,because since you r not to to insult the Koran let it insult itself,if you believe that chapter 4 is the word of God you r wak,and guess wat the entire Muslim world is wak
At 53:27 he suggested that Quran was a collaborative work of Christens in the desert without any objective reasoning. He probably thinks that Quran must be written just like King James bible was written where a number of authors were involved.
As an academic he should have given Islamic version of Quran and then some data for his version, not just speculation.
That Islamic version is 200 years too late. Try again...
are you going to say it wasnt written by man but narrated by allah, something you have no proof off, lol
@@qandachristian7614 it doesn't matter whether it's 200 or 2000 years later . The Quran is memorized and passed on .
@@arshiaameena1338 that's an anti-historical statement
@@bijosn well it was not written by a divine entity since its full of errors and contradictions - but who wrote it? We don´t know
Still the important question about: how all the Islamic sects still silent, and accept the same outline of the tradition, even though they are killing each other since the early Islam ..
Thank you from syria ..
Islam today is not just a religion but an ideology, legal and economic system that props several governments around the world. None of them eager to declare itself irrelevant.
Ali Syr the sects are so separated in terms of mindset . Sunni Islam(I grew up in) , anyone not Sunni is looked at as in falsehood or steeped in innovation (looked down upon ) and Sunni Muslims are most left brain mindset . Don’t ask questions , don’t even look outside the lines , and only scholars they deem correct are referenced . The truth is coming out slowly.... and here in corona, ca I talked about these things and how it’s not this Saudi style .... and I got blackballed 🙅🏽♂️... sheep’s don’t know they are just used for their wool then their meat.
Answer, they aren’t. The presenter lies.
QS. Jonah Verse 38
Say, "Make a surah which is like a surah (Al-Qur'an), and invite anyone of you who can (make it) other than Allah, if you are true people."
Make a sonata like Beethoven, or a concerto like Mozart, or a song like the Beatles, or a book like Harry Potter, if you can. If not, then Beethoven, Mozart, the Beatles or JK Rowling must be gods then.
@@robbysai Make a saga like discworld, or Terry Prattchet is the last prophet.
Make a life like I did if you could not then you are not god. Oh by the way. Persecute those who try. Like a minor girl in a certain place in the hell holes of the planet.
@@robbysai did the all books you've mentioned claiming something like unknown or weird facts today?
@@sidprice6214 how is “make a Surah like a Surah” not a challenge to write something comparable? Perhaps you missed the point that this verse is a shrewd and lame attempt to shift the burden of proof. If Allah was how he’s supposed to be, surely it could have found a much more convincing argument to prove that the Quran is its word, rather than challenge non believers to prove believers wrong. The burden of proof is on whoever is making the claim, and how can you prove that a book is the word of god if you cannot even prove that a god exists??
I don’t wish to see anyone or anything as a god, until it’s proven so. YOU are the one doing that. And if you were to apply the same logic, YOU should see Beethoven, Mozart, the Beatles or JK Rowling as gods or god’s messengers, like Christians do for Christ and you do for Mohammad.
We cannot use the Islamic sources...because they show Islam is originally from Petra and a fraud invented in the late 800s. Yes, the onion was pealed and there is no core to Islam beyond political necessity.
th-cam.com/video/jorBwia9yFw/w-d-xo.html
1- My reasons for stating my lack of first hand knowledge is not modesty, it is Truth.
2- As to being born credulous, we all have some level of excessive credulity, but compared to most people I am highly skeptical (but not cynical). As this is a spurious ad hominem attack, I won't bother with a defense beyond the fact that while I was an agnostic I rejected macroevolutionary mythology and remained an agnostic for over a year before becoming Christian. I am a retired professor of medicine and biochemistry at a US medical school. I am NOT an Islamic scholar. That does not mean I am incapable of thought.
3- The teachings ascribed to Mohammed did not arise out of thin air. They are a poorly written syncretic mix of Ebionite, Gnostic (such as Christ making a bird of clay), Talmudic and especially Nabathean paganism. This much I am certain because I have read translationS of the unholy Koran, Gnostic Gospels and Talmudic. There are no extant Ebionite writings, but since I have taught Church History, I have an aquaintence with them as well.
Amazing marathon of a complex lecture
Whats the controversy he referenced in the beginning between scholars on this newer perspective? Is it basically the orthodox Islam history vs this new perspective?
The pertinent question is did any Christians(various early Christian factions with differing interpretations of Christianity) convert to Islam from.the 7th century onwards or was it more of the gentile, non-Jewish and people believing in polytheism, pagans that were early Islam converts. Over time there probably were forced conversions either implicitly via higher taxes for non Muslims or explicitly by force.
These theories don't seem to elucidate much. What about the spread of Islam, the Umnayads, the conquests of Persia, Egypt, Levant etc? Sure the extant biographies are from two hundred years later but they seem to have been formulated within an well established millue.
So the biggest Question to ask is this is Islam a dangerous Religion even in the year 2022.
Time will tell us what Islam is all about.
Moreover Islam must tell us what is the rationale of mankind and his role in this large and vast Universe In Accra Tema and Takoradi.
If you did a little study for yourself you will have an understanding of Islam.
Like most modern people he does not know the difference between the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and the doctrine of the Virgin Birth.
Mohammed's first wife Khadija gave him a young slave named Zaid Bin Haritha. Mohammed liked the boy and few years later took him to Kaba (a holy site for believers) and announced to all present that Zaid is my son. Thereafter the slave was named Zaid Bin Mohammed. Some year later Mohammed went to see his son who was absent but his wife Zainab, invited him in. She was scantily dressed so that Mohammed hastily retreated, exclaiming, Lord, "how Thou dost turn the hearts of men!"
Zainab, delighted at this eminent conquest, recounted the incident to her husband in detail. Zaid the son immediately went to see Mohammed and said he was perfectly willing to divorce his wife so that Mohammed could marry her. While Mohammed hesitated, doubtless because Arab customs forbade marrying one's own daughter in law. Zaid did divorce Zainab.
Shortly thereafter while in the company of Ayesha, his child-bride, Mohammed had a prophetic trance. He awoke to say, Send someone to Zainab the good news. " He then recited Koranic verses that sanctioned the marriage and abrogated his fatherhood of Zaid. Ayesha, who must have been crestfallen, quietly uttered one of the most sarcastic remarks ever made to his face. She said, Thy Lord doth hasten to please Thee." Zaid, having lost a wife gained immortality. He is the only person beside Mohammed mentioned in Koran by name.
I have often wondered what special services Zain do for Islam but could not come up with a reasonable response.
Think a good Muslims can come up with a reasonable response, I wonder?
Nusrat Rizvi Good points. All religions are founded by scoundrels and hucksters, and followed by weak-minded people who can’t tell an obvious fraud when he’s standing right in front of them preaching piety.
If you truly search the truth: th-cam.com/video/kbaorsGGFio/w-d-xo.html
We in the Arab world can easily refute this demonized accounts of Western forgers because we search the abundant sources in Arabic. I don't think the sources in English are scanty that you can't find any source! Click the link above and search more about FACTS
von Sivers will go down in history as a great scholar who cracked the Christian-Islamic connection; this lecture ought to be shared worldwide . . . especially in the US where Christian Nationalist cultism has emerged in force again in the 2020's.
Is there a publication or a book by the orator Professor von Sivers relating to this presentation?
@@alanguy58 Thank you for your surgical approach!
INDIA LOVER Sometimes we shine. Thank YOU ;-)
The Kaldonien side of christianity won by the sord!
That does NOT make it the "right" christianity.
what the professor is kind of saying is that we can view islam as the continuation of the part of christianity that "lost".
yes....kind off..
What are the sources that speak of the declaration of an Arab kingdom on the year 622?
What are the sources that your brain is actually not empty?
@@hasen_judi are you a kid or something?no wonder you make such statements.
That's exactly what happens when you don't have the facts and just an empty brain 😂
@@hassantariq8857 Well, you do have an empty answer
@@gilbertg7 well ma'am/sir, do you think Islam spread throughout the world without Muslims reaching to the ends of the world, so you see that you'd grasp this concept only if your brain ain't empty,my answer's not so empty now,is it?😏
@@hassantariq8857 Yes it is. What does it say about there being sources that speak of the declaration of an Arab kingdom on the year 622?
Great lecture! Thank you, Prof. Sivers.
The islamic population increased with the help of Sword 🗡️ Bullet Force,, poor illiterate peoples,,many a times educated fools also converted to Islam.
In islamic countries , womens are targeted,, no liberty for womens,, womens are production machine for 20/30/50 Kids...
HALALA for womens, Triple TALAK for womens,, even only mens are getting 72 Hoors with very big size Breasts.
Now a days, Quaran written/modified by Mullah, Moulavee's are read by Islamic peoples, which mentioned "other than Muslims, all peoples are KAAFIR & to be killed..This is the moto of Islam..
Beautiful and most interesting description of the substrate that did give rise to Islam. Islam as an heresy of traditional Christianity?
Islam leans to the Gnostics more than the other heresies
As difficult as it may seem to accept, this becomes obvious if you ask the famous cui bono: the world (and its prince, which I won't honor the least bit so I'm not even going to name him) has hurled anything it could at Jesus, culminating in the unbelievable torture Jesus was submitted to before He died on the Cross. Even in our times, look at what's going on even in the Holy Church: Pope John Paul II kissing the Quran, Pope Francis declaring Islam and plurality of faiths "willed" by God... So, in its "fruits", Islam clearly goes against Christ's salvation, by crowning a false faith and a false prophet.
@@MohamedAhmed-eg3mh Islam is for idiots: I can't even begin to count all the repetitions, very profound ones such as "Do you not understand?". Have your IQ tested, below 90 you make a great Muslim, do you not understand? Oh, and one last very important thing: do you not understand?
@David Hutchins Frankly I think his accent is fine.
Are the core beliefs of Christian Unitarianism or Islam closer Judaism, tovia singer,,, watch on TH-cam
Sigh... Still looking for mention of what role the highly active monks of the Gulf littoral may have played. I believe there are Syriac records that discuss a rebellion there against the Nestorian Church.
Any chance you have a source for this? Sounds interesting
@@truthseekrz2627 Thank you for asking, but I do not have a compelling source for the monks' activity (beyond googling 'Bet Qatraye'). That is why I am searching for something academic. Here is a presentation on the archaeological record on Christians in the Gulf (primary source): th-cam.com/video/u6tvNfqN6ek/w-d-xo.html
There is significant material evidence indicating Christianity was extensively present in the entire Arabian Peninsula. This needs to be mapped out and addressed when discussing the origins of Islam. I am not fond of the hypothesis that lays it all at Petra.
33:38 is the high note. Arab Kingdom founded in 622 - incredible.. puzzle solved! (for rationalists)
I would agree. Unfortunately he doesn't provide the source he is referring to.
David Montoute I’ve been looking for that Syrian kingdom
@@davidmontoute2074 Sir I respect your learning a lot. The dispersed nestorian lakhmids and the directionless ghassanids united at some point. So why not in 622 ad when Arabia was surrounded from all sides by the Sassians?
@@indialover83 , hi. The Professor has since clarified (to Sneakers Corner) that he was referring to the account of John Bar Penkaye, written in the late 7th century. There is also a similar reference in Jacob of Edessa, i believe. Certainly, 622 is a key moment, and the point has been well made that conquerors don't start their calendar with a defeat (which is what the traditional Hijra story is). So yes, i agree that this date is important. I'm just keen to always be able to provide citations for any claim, especially for those that challenge the consensus opinion.
@@davidmontoute2074 Appreciate your reply sir. I wish you write books on this topic too. I'll see that video. Thank you. Wish me the best for my research too.
The Nabateans came from Petra, so that city is described in the Nabatean Book for pagans ! It has hills, Fig Trees Grow there, There is a River running through Petra, which is in a valley, yet the Muslims say that describes MECCA Not Petra, and Mecca Never Had any of those things. So why do the Muslims not question that truth and see that Petra was where their religion came from, and the Pagans that invented it ?
Petra at jordan?never heard prophet pray in there..or toward the petra..he never enter that place and avoid it..bcs that curse place.if ask jew where muslim used to pray b4 change to mecca..they will say jerusalem precisely like al quran mention..such a weird accustion.also try search video all jews say muslim doesnt do paganism but monothiesm..only christian does..normally people who say like that are people who lack knowledge..about direction worship fyi lot mosque b4 exist modern equipment to measure face same issue..event oldest mosque they change the direction after know it wrong.just weird non muslim barking about direction muslim pray..its worse if people doesnt pray..if direction matter..why muslim still pray on aeroplane and space??where the exact direction??allah say he create sun,moon,earth etc..talk about direction??
@@GardeniaInc It's not wierd that non muslims can see that the origins of Islam is a lie. As the man said Mecca and Mohammed are made up stories. The earliest mosques did face Petra. The Qurans own description of Mohammed birthplace does not describe Mecca. Mecca was pretty much unknown until well after Mohammed was said to live. Now Mecca is a huge tourist revenue source for Saudi. Details are important when exposing a lie.
Just add to that the Kabba was a pagan worship site. The Muslims just appropriated it for their own commercial gain.
Narendra B 0
@Asadul Hasan Rasel There are many other aspects from the Hadiths and Quran that point to Petra as being the original Mecca such as the presence of a water course in the city where Mohammed would walk, the existence of city walls (which played a role in the battle of Ibn Zubair) but there is not evidence of city walls in Mecca. The geological structure of Petra such as the existence of a thanya as mentioned in the Hadith. Also all nations mentionedn in the Quran are from northern Arabia (Edom, Ud, Thamud, ...)
@Asadul Hasan Rasel Muhammed grew up in the Quraish tribe and in his community argued against his
people. Since Petra was the traditional place of worshop of the Arabians it is very possible that even the majoiryt of people in that city were pagans... If you look at Mekka, the part north of the water course was inhabitated by christians (ruins of churches) while the southern part of the city is full of pagan temples (temple of dushara, inscriptions of Allat, Al Manat...)
This was excellent. It answers questions I had after reading Tom Holland's book.
What is the origin of Judaism and Christianity??
records in 600sAD is doubtful.......records in 400BC is less doubtful.....nice standards😓
@OTTO OCTAVIOUS Quran itself is biggest proof for everyone who raise questions
@OTTO OCTAVIOUS Just a repetitive words from those who have no answer to Quran's authenticity. Quran is not a book of either science or it's a history book but word of God for those who seek guidance, not people like you who worship a human being assuming him as Son of God or those who don't believe in existence of God at all.
That’s what coming to my mind also.
In a theological approach, no doubt. But here we are dealing with scholarship that must do hermeneutics, lexical analysis, historical framing, etc. We should not avoid that. Only enriches cultural interchange. Every religion has "hidden" roots, given the long time that passed and the nature of the numinous human experience. But we can trace influences, find historical contexts, etc.
This not really a contradiction of Islamic tradition that says it is a continuation of Judeo Christian tradition. Indeed the oral tradition says Islam is a continuation of *all* human religion.
The more interesting question would be when and how Islam took its own identity.
Form this video, i can say that Islam emerge from Christianity or a sect of Christianity, mix with paganism.
The word paganism is the product of Christianity and expresses hatred towards pantheism. Romans did believe that the world and the gods were created by one god, the Father of all…… Christian theology and neoplatonism were closely related……. that is why the Roman empire flipped suddenly to Christianity…….
I doubt this. The dominant problem within Arabic cul;ture was its division and civil strive. The Islamic religion united the Arabs and was an important cause of the victories over the Byzantine and Zoroasthrian empires. For the first time in history had state-religion become leading in military expansion……..
They used Islam for hegemony. But it was logical that after conquering the Middle-East the division re-emerged and the Khalifate suffered from civil strive (720-760) Later would follow the struggle between Persian-muslim (Fatawid) and Arabs. The period 750-950aN has always been falsely proclaimed as the Golden Age of Islam. ARABIC SOCIETY DOES NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF THE NATIONSTATE AND WILL THEREFOR REMAIN IN A MEDIEVAL CULTURAL LEVEL. The Persians developed Iran to a grown up state and the Shia-muslims should therefor be supported by the West.
MARCION PHILOLOGOS because I'm Christian, then I will use Christians terminology. Islam was a pagan origin. I'm Indonesian and I know Islam better than you.
Battterian Evans just wake up and stood up against this stupid religion. I'm not stupid, I'm Indonesian and you are westerner. You know nothing about Islam.
God isn't a person, only the son who existed with his father before the world was created Genesis I:26
And [mention, O Muhammad], when We took from the prophets their covenant and from you and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus, the son of Mary; and We took from them a solemn covenant.33:7
@J. C in a world you'll never understand. Just like God took an oath from you and me in a timeless space less realm.
Only the catholics Mary worshippers bad Queen of Heaven fertility goddess
@@josiahbennett7573 Wrong
So you deliberately inject Muhammad's name after "And", LOL.
@@earthlycreature8772 as a sign of respect since the verse was first revealed to prophet Muhammad pbuh. Nothing new
It must have been hard for Mormons (BYU) to hear someone in their midst say that Jesus is the Son of God in a Biblical way or argument. Mormons believe that the Father is God, the Son is God and the spirit is God, three seperate Gods.
Joseph, and thus the LDS, was all over the place when it comes to the Godhead.
He started out as a "classical" trinitarian, then moved onto a modalist view of God, and then the polytheism that is currently expoused. By polytheism, we're not just talking about "three gods," but an unknown amount (possibly innumerable) of "gods," of which, they have no idea who the "supreme god" is.
You might want to research The Mountain Meadows Massacre... September 11th.
Joseph Smith called himself the Mormon Muhammed.
@@fantasia55, when Joseph Smith called himself Mohammed (the 'blessed one') then hi must have been blessed with a demon spirit called 'allah'
@@e-college-sait Allah is who Jesus prayed to in his own language. If you’re Christian, be careful you don’t make a claim that’ll send you straight to hell.
Peter Townsend has authored a new book "the Mecca Mystery". It has some very surprising conclusions, one of which is the late appearance of Mecca. Others on this page have noted the same conclusion. But Peter Townsend has many more surprises that will give any thinking Muhammadan pause.
It was called Bacca long before. When Hagar and Ishmael settled there. The miracle of the well of Zam Zam happened when they first arrived there. There were no settlements until after they came. Only nomads passing by.
gotc mehs
There is no Muhammadan in Islam.
@@DewsReign Bacca is Hebrew not Islamic
@@josiahbennett7573 Has nothing to do with language, whether Hebrew or Arabic (not “Islamic”). I was referring to history. The city we now know as Mecca or Makkah, was known as Becca long long ago. It was known as the valley of Becca, and Abraham brought Hagar there with baby Ishmael. The miracle of the well of ZamZam flowed out there for them.
@@DewsReign Where is the evidence for these events? And for Abraham himself as a historical person? I’m curious.
Encyclopedia Britannica situates the Chalcedon Council in 451, not 541
Obviously, he meant 451. He's old, give him a break.
@@cartesian_doubt6230 He also wrote 541 9:30 What else in his exposé should we give him a break on?
@@gilbertg7 rephaps he's slisdexis
Time Professor Peter Von Sivers rewrites his 2004 paper on the History of Early Islam in the light of newly released Sana’a manuscripts
@Islam Safari Because Islam has actually pagan origins. Petra was the seat of the Nabatean kingdom from where the Arabic language and script comes from. The early history of Islam begins there. In 731 Petra was destroyed by a quake. Mecca becomes the center of the story. Al Malik's family was from Mecca and injected Mecca into the story
@@johnmalcolm2028 all of you are funny. Dont know nothing. And still talking
@@johnmalcolm2028seems like you are one of those intellectually molested Christian who believes what his preacher says about islam and worships thier word without actually talking to a muslim
Only a few scholar know something. You need to contextualize, do lexical analysis, hermeneutics, read Syriac, Arabuc, Greek... not for all. I' talking of the scientific approach, not believing. Religions are many, thousands of gods were invented, everywhere.
You implying that the Quran was taking from previous revelations, it's coming from the same God.
According to Quran, previous scriptures were corrupted. Quran corrected the corruptions.
The Quran is full of falsehoods and contradictions - since it's manmade. If it would be divine it would be perfect it is not.
In a layman's point of view it is surprising that islamic origins were prophesied in the Bible through the prophesies of Jesus, Moses and many other biblical prophets, but for the faithful it's a miraculous act of God..
If what you say is true, you would quote the bible chapter and verse and since you do not it is impossible to believe the lies you tell. What you say is obviouly Islamic rubbish.
Mr. Ahmed. Please, Sir, we are not children.
In John chapters 14, 15 and 16 Jesus is seen prophesying someone, who will be called a spirit of truth (Al-Amin in Arabic) comforter (Mentioned mercy to the mankind in Qur'an) and some of his characteristics will leave you spellbound as it perfectly fit with last and final prophet of God Muhammed (pbuh)
====================
(1) may abide with you for ever;
(By the finality of his teachings)
(2) ye know him; for he dwelleth with you.
(Because it's same teaching as Jesus)
(3) shall teach you all things..
(Only a human can teach)
(4) bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Just as prophet did who spoke so well about Jesus and his mother)
(5) the prince of this world cometh..
(Prophet would be sent for the whole world)
(6) he shall testify of me..
(Only a human could testify, just as prophet)
(7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that *I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you;* but if I depart, I will send him unto you
(This can never be holy Ghost who is always with Jesus)
(8) he will *reprove the world* of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
(Only a human can reprove, just as prophet did. No other person ever talked about sin, righteous deeds and judgement day, heaven and hell as clear and beautiful as prophet)
(9) he will guide you into all truth..
(Perfecting the religion of God, as last and final prophet, just as prophet did)
(10) for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak..
(Talking about a HUMAN who listens to God's revelation and then speaks to people as per instructed)
(11) and he will shew you things to come..
(Only a human can prophesy, just as prophet did prophesy many things that came to pass for the last 1400 years)
(12) He shall glorify me.
(Only a human can glorify, just as prophet spoke so well about Jesus and his mother)
(13) he shall receive of mine..
(Source of the revelation is same, Almighty God)
(14) and shall shew it unto you...
(Only a human can deliver the message as received from the God)
@@donaldedward4951 there is one in Matthew "Be aware of False prophets..."
There are no prophecies about Islam or Muhammad in the Bible or Torah, whether from a layman’s or scholars point of view. All prophecies in the Old Testament has been fulfilled in Jesus and any interpretation otherwise is futility
@@dennayeson
There are dozens of prophesies in the old and new testament. But just think about this in John chapter 16
=====
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
(John 16:7-14)
*HE HAS TO*
1 *Come*
2 *Reprove the world of sin*
3 *Reprove the world of righteous deeds*
4 *Reprove the world of judgement day*
5 *Guide the world into all truth*
6 *Hear (Listen to) the revelation*
7 *Speak (convey) it to the world*
8 *Prophesy many future events*
9 *Glorify Jesus*
10 *Receive the revelation from the same source*
ONLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD DID ABOVE ALL...
You know about prophet Mohamed maybe 200 later through a biography.... We moslems know God revealed the Quran to Prophet Mohamed & if he had written it by himself properly i would assume he would have mentioned his name in the Quran more than 3 times as u mentioned.
There is an interesting remark by the Professor near the end... probably it was not a proper name but a kind of honourific "title". Other scholars agree.
carbon dated is not when the qur'an writed but when the material started live
Funny that he is giving this lecture at BYU lol
From Baal to Islam including all monotheism doctrines or beliefs in between are Semitic not taking from, but from the same SOURCE.
I have to say it’s pretty interesting. The only issue I have with it is this is not the origins of Islam this is should be called Christianity in the Quran because the Quran has a lot more than what they say about Mary and Christ. There is more emphasis put in Abraham Unique that the Bible of the Torah and we have very similar stories. It seems they are explained more in details of the Quran and they make more sense the way are explained so it could be right that they have been reworked but again, we don’t know who wrote the Bible, so we do know that it was written 200 years after the fact, and several of writers and authors quite a few, and it’s been changed over the decades major changes where the Quran always has been one book and never been changed but I do know there are some sewer war not included. You also the hadeith so I guess we invented religion try to come up with version 3.0 Islam update and cover up all the patches so people hack and make alterations into it.
We do who wrote the Bible. You are just towing the line that was thought up 300 years after Muhammad. The Quran tells you to believe the Gospel the Torah and the Psalms. All of which were available to Muhammad in his day. We can even talk about how the Quran doesn't exist. What we have today is a Qitab/book.
Islam has great history from our father Adam(a s) to our beloved prophet (pbh)who was not the bigginers of ISLAM but to complete and sealed the releagies of the prophets before him,
Didn't know Hector Salamanca was so educated, respect
Brother Peter von Sivers, greetings. May I ask why you find it impossible to believe that Qur'an Majid is truly God's words?
You claimed that it is written by human being, but gave no reason, in your "solid scholarship" here.
Read it word for word .... It's doesn't reflect a godly person's nature...by 'humanity' standards....justifying that it was as per those times doesn't cut it, since a god's character is beyond time
@@schnellster1 thanks for reply. you said " It's doesn't reflect a godly person's nature...by 'humanity' standards."
which part of qur'an majid you are referring to? or you only heard such matters and never really read it yourself?
Quran 25:5
And they say, “Legends of the former people which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon”.
Quran 16:103
“And we certainly know that they say, “It is only a human being who teaches the prophet.” The tongue of the one they refer to is foreign, and this Qur’an is (in) a clear Arabic language”.
When Muhammad started his teachings, the people accused him of retelling older stories which he had heard from people. Simply put, most of what Muhammed taught wasn’t new to the people and it was why most of them rejected him until Islam became dominant through wars.
If you read Syriac stories before Islam, you’ll realise that Muhammed borrowed a lot of stories which were already known in Arabia. Even some stories from Gnostic gospels that were rejected by Christians are found in the Quran.
When I read Quran, I feel like it’s book made up of Jewish and Christian Scriptures with a little twist, Gnostic gospels, Arab myths, Jewish traditions, Arab poems before Islam and Arab pagan practises and beliefs.
It’s the reason why Peter Von Singers believe the Quran is from men and not God.
He did an interview about the same topic with Derek on the TH-cam channel “MythVision” and it’s even better than this lecture. Try and watch it.
See above. The Koran includes a lot of recycled stories that predate Islam. Hard to be a revelation from Allah even they were already well known.
The sleepers, blowing life into clay birds and even the crucifixion story all predate Islam by hundreds of years.
Q5.32 is from the Talmud and of course Dhu Al-karnayne is an old story about Alexander the Great.
@@edward1412 I read some of the comments on this post and I am appalled by the comments, I used to believe that I can trust intelligent people for their reasoning power, today I believe differently, going forward I will only follow the wise, you made some claims that is truly laughable, Jesus peace be upon him said all of our troubles comes from our elders, today I am a witness to what he said, I have never seen so much people in a forum for learning make fools of themselves and not realizing the sin that they have incurred.
Are you aware that a challenge from the Quran has not been met for over 14 centuries, here it is:
Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’” (Quran 17:88)
This is the shortest chapter in the Quran
One Chapter
This final challenge was to produce even a single chapter to match what is in the Quran, whose shortest chapter, al-Kawthar, consists of only three verses:
baqara-1
“And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.” (Quran 2:23)
These challenges were not just empty words with no one caring to prove them wrong. Prophet Muhammad’s call to monotheism, to the abolition of idolatry in all its forms, and to the equality of slaves and their masters, threatened the whole socio-economic framework of Mecca society in general, and the position of the ruling Quraishee tribe from which the Prophet (S) came in particular. Mecca, the trading center of Arabia, as well as its spiritual center, desperately wanted to stop the spread of Islam. Yet all that the Prophet’s opponents had to do to crush the movement was to make up a single chapter like any one of those which the Prophet (S) and his followers were reciting to the people. A number of Quraishee orators and poets tried to imitate the Quran, but they failed. They then resorted to offering him vast amounts of wealth, the position of king over them, and the most noble and beautiful of their women in exchange for his promise to stop inviting people to Islam. He responded to them by reciting the first thirteen verses of Chapter Fussilat, until they asked him to stop. [1] The Quraish also resorted to torturing their slaves and relatives who had embraced Islam in a vain attempt to cause them to revert to paganism. Later, they organized an economic boycott against the Prophet (S) his followers and the members of his clan, Banu Hashim, in an attempt to starve them into submission. But even this plan eventually failed. Finally, they plotted to kill him in his home by sending armed young men from each of the clans of Quraish in order that the guilt of his murder be shared by all the clans, making revenge by the Prophet’s clan impossible.
To the brazilien lady asking how could the muslims explain that Jesus is not devine, i say, well the christians couldn't explain it either!
And that exactly why they were at war with each other before islam came.
Few arguments from Quran
- Jesus and His mother used to eat food (They need to defecate which is unbelievable for muslim that God must look for Rock and bush to defecate)
- Similarity of Jesus is like Adam. God created Adam from dust easily. So it was easy for God almighty to create Jesus without Father.
From Bible itself there is no explicit Statement from Jesus that He is God and people should worship him. Saying a man is God is a serious claim. Need a clear direct statement from Jesus made in repetition accross bible.
Also trinitarian was later invention. Jesus and holy spirit got voted in 2 separated council to be put in to divinity.
Though you claimed yourself to bee a good historian several times, I'm sorry to say, you're not, although, in a half articulates way, you couldn't make clear how totally monotheism of Islam fits any of several versions of christianity,
That's why you couldn't became a full professor even at such old age.
That’s a rather bold claim you’re making. What’s your background/ resumé? Are you also a historian? A professor in religious studies maybe? Or are you just an apologetic keyboard warrior, who anonymously bashes academics on the internet? 🤔
My understanding is that von Sivers gave a background to what influenced Islam, their attitude towards Christians as polytheists because of Tritheists, which led them to emphasize Tawhid, ie singleness of God etc. And thus he explained their emergence from the Christian Christology battles (Monophysites and their various factions, Orthodox Christians, Nestorians etc.)
You can be kind in your words. Christianity was by no means one body, even in the micro heretical sects. Islam borrows its image of Jesus from the Gnostics, particularly a desert father called Basilides of the third century ad. Now where the illiterate prophet Muhammad got this stream of thought from, is open for research...
What ''Islamic philosophy and science ''?
actually this speech is more informative about Late Antiquity Christian variant movements then about the origin of Islam. He does however make the theory of Christoph Luxemburg that the oldest texts of the Quran were written in the linga franca of those days, nl Syro Aramaic, it bit more plausable ( without mentioning it ).
Ebionites were a non-trinitarian christian group that lived in Hejaz (Medina and Mecca) in the first century.
Ebionite's didn't even exist in the first century. Let alone in the Hijaz (which is more than just Medina and Mecca). What are you talking about?
@@everyzan-m2q i meant that they were included in Hijaz
@@houssameddinekourchi2495 What’s your proof?
@@everyzan-m2q bruh Hijaz is all the western part of arabia and these two cities are in there
@@houssameddinekourchi2495 I’m asking you for your proof that the Ebionite’s were in the western part of Arabia/Hijaz.
If the historicity of Muhammed is problematic, then that of Jesus is much more so. There is barely a mention of Jesus around his time outside Christian religious texts. By the way, I am not a muslim nor an apologist of any kind. Just stating facts
So you think JESUS never existed?
Are you therefor implying:
JOHN the BAPTIST whom bare witness to JESUS CHRIST - was he a liar?
HEROD the king who wanted to kill all children under a certain age because of the birth of CHRIST also a liar?
Are all the disciples too are liars?
Are the RABBI'S that handed CHRIST over to be crucified are liars?
Was PILATE a liar?
Was the CENTURION who witnessed CHRIST on the cross and plunged the spear into him also a liar?
But most importantly.
Have you made GOD a liar?
For it is written:
1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Amen.
The Holy Bible came along; long before you and I was ever thought of by GOD.
Eye witness accounts of JESUS CHRIST.
Miracles of healing a blind man and many other miracles that was not recorded.
JESUS was seen by thousands of people during that period.
JESUS died on the cross and Yes he died for our sins so that we can be saved in the age to come.
You also need to know that many, many people have died writing The word of GOD for us all to understand.
Prophets and Disciples were tortured and killed to give us this Holy Book.
You should truly take it more seriously.
Romans 1:16-18 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Amen
It's not the histrocity of Islam which is the problem..it's a dogmatic..cult
Abracadabra 😂 if true, who are the Jewish and Roman authors speaking about?
@@thepilgrim1581
Brillant answer based un facts!
Greetings from Perú 🇵🇪✨✝️
No you are not stating facts.. Just ignorance..
32:33 He said that the war turned around miraculously. This was prophecised in the Quran back then, that the Romans were defeated, but they will be victorious in less than 10 years, despite how unlikely it seemed.
Ar-Rum (2) - The Romans (2)
The Romans have been defeated, In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious. Within a few years. To Allah belonged the matter before and (to Him it belongs) thereafter. And on that day the believers will rejoice, with Allah's help. He helps whomsoever He wills. And He is the Mighty, the Very-Merciful.
It is a promise of Allah. Allah does not fail in His promise, but most of the people do not know.
In war, luck shifts. This does not mean something is divine.
Forgive the impudence, but it is so tempting to think that god could have done a little better job of revealing himself to ALL humanity, if that is what he/it/whatever was trying to accomplish, rather than so much vague mystery and arbitrary tribalism as surrounds Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and all taking place in only one small part of the world during a relatively small chunk of earth time..
Oh? Do you think if Jesus came today, anyone would give him a second listen?
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth" doesn't make much of an impact on people who are fed "gender fluidity."
@@christianlibertarian5488 blessed are the strong with restraint, for they will inherit the earth*
@@abdullahsheriff3585 That is a translation/interpretation I have not heard in a while, but it may be more apropo in this situation.
Muslims and Christians represent at least half the population of the planet in 202... You are forgiven for that comment good sir.
The separation of Judaism to Islam is longer than the seperation of Islam to today. Would you say 7th century to 21st is a short period of time?
Most religions, like Empires were imposed rather than through winning hearts and minds ?
Thank you professor for the excellent lecture about the prevailing theological argument around the sixth century . However, I would like to point out that in response to the lady,s question that Allah created Jesus just as he created Adam ( Quran 66:12 and 3:59) . Both Jesus and Adam were mentioned 25 times each in the Quran. Also Adam descended from heaven and Jesus will descend from heaven Also the place where the first revelation was in Mecca is Hiraa( حراء) which is different from Hirah (حيره) the capital of the Lakhamid Munthers dynasty . In fact there is more in common between Christianity and Islam than we all think.All we need is just open minds and objectivity.
Does anyone have the sources for the "Christian Chroniclers"? Not questioning it or anything just want to read it.
No such thing read the Bible
Thank you Prof highly appreciate your deep knowledge for middle Eastern religious
The islamic population increased with the help of Sword 🗡️ Bullet Force,, poor illiterate peoples,,many a times educated fools also converted to Islam.
In islamic countries , womens are targeted,, no liberty for womens,, womens are production machine for 20/30/50 Kids...
HALALA for womens, Triple TALAK for womens,, even only mens are getting 72 Hoors with very big size Breasts.
Now a days, Quaran written/modified by Mullah, Moulavee's are read by Islamic peoples, which mentioned "other than Muslims, all peoples are KAAFIR & to be killed..This is the moto of Islam..
Middle Eastern religions?
@@criticalthinker1123 So called"abrahamic religions"
Also Zoroastrianism, Manicheism, more or less pervasive Neoplatonist concepts and even Budism in eastern Persia at the time.
'Islam is not the learning of the truth in GOD but rather the delusional training of the mind to think it is the truth in a God'.
Who is that God?
Al lah
Al lat
Al Uzza
Manat.
Pagan.
These pagan idols, allat, al uzza and al manat, are actually mentioned by name in the Qur'an.
Qur'an, 53:19-23:
"Now, have you considered the idols of Al-Lat and Al-Uzza?
and the third one, Manat, as well?
Do you ˹prefer to˺ have sons while ˹you attribute˺ to Him daughters?
Then this is ˹truly˺ a biased distribution!
These ˹idols˺ are mere names that you and your forefathers have made up1-a practice Allah has never authorized. They follow nothing but ˹inherited˺ assumptions and whatever ˹their˺ souls desire, although ˹true˺ guidance has already come to them from their Lord. "
The Qur'an is quite clear that worship of allat, al uzza and manat is a very bad and foolish thing.
I can say with confidence that you would never be able to find a single person who claims to be Muslim and who claims to worship allat, al uzza or manat. If anyone did, it would be such a huge sin that they would not be considered Muslim.
There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. The Quran is the word of Allah. That’s all nothing else matters.
u can not see planet using a microscope
Why does he ignore the hadith? His naivety about explaining the 'Christian roots' of Islam to a jihadi is stunning. The questioner he's addressing is exceedingly ignorant.
Because the hadith is even phonier than the Quran.
I'm an Arab from the gulf and its uncontested that the earliest Muslim accounts were written 150 years after the prophet died during the abbasid empire. The hadith was compiled even later by about 250 years after Islam
You would know better I guess
@@ngngdlnald9657 I question his honesty.
@@erglelergle8476 seems more like you questioning his knowledge to me.
The topic it self proves that they don't understand the Arabic language
For responsible history please read the shadow of the sword by holland and the sword and the scimitar.
Why do you suggest it? Would be interested in a well sourced book about the histiricity of islams origins.
@@wishyouthebest9222Ziauddin Sardar, writing for the New Statesman, said that the book seemed to be tailored to suit the rise in Islamophobic sentiments around the globe, and presented a grand narrative based on works of a "largely discredited group of orientalists", whose ample criticisms Holland seemed to be ignorant about.[5] He finished his critique with "I find Holland’s total dismissal of Muslim scholarship arrogant (which I know he is not), insulting (which I know he does not mean to be) and based on spurious scholarship (though his scholarship is usually sound)."
Oh, a biased person did not enjoy a book that did not conform to his bias!
The speaker is talking about Christianity at about the start of Islam. About 600 AD. This takes place in a LDS compound which, states it main reason for coming into being is the extinction of Christianity?
The professor seems to be wanting to invent a new Isalm by interpreting Isalmic literature and historical events according to his desires.
Solid information based on the preceding centuries quran emerged in. They examine data in the era proto Islam emerged and the absence of Islamic literature abt Islam.. a biography over 200 years later hadiths are too late. Also current research on the milieu in Arabia confirming these hypotheses.
No polytheism after 4th/5thC by epigraphic data. No archaeological historical evidence of makka. Quranic Arabic isn't from Hijaz..
@@Stardust475 Quite so.
Thats about the standard approach taken by most of them.
So if you think that the Quran has Christian roots & a lot of communality & the Quran is another version why you don't believe in it????
Because it's a perverted version of the Bible and their christian roots which betrays what Jesus told us.
From the beginning of the lecture the lecturer try to inject the idea that there is Quran before the Quran as it seems he is very bothered by recent discoveries that the Quran really existed as reported as as shown for instance by The Birmingham Quran manuscript that is a parchment on which two leaves of an early Quranic manuscript are written. In 2015 the manuscript, which is held by the University of Birmingham, was radiocarbon dated to between 568 and 645 CE.
Any historian should know that C14 gives an interval where a given discovery can be traced in time not the exact date. Same applies to Sanaa manuscript.
The lecturer also showed a clear ignorance of The Quran as shown in his understanding of the concept of mushrikun مشركون that remains related to the act of شرك verve: اشرك to associate with God other divinity. It is why in order to be Muslim should continuously fight that during her/ his own life as it is clearly formulated in the key to enter the world of Islam as defined in the Quran: اشهد ان لا الاه الا الله
I bear witness that there is no god but God.
where the first half shows the need to bear in mind and to struggle till the end to show in practice that : There is no god to continue the journey approaching the only Real God. It is why you become Muslim by declaring: There is no god but God , and you say the same while dying at the end of your life-journey..
The lecturer also failed, for the same reason that his ignorance of the Quran, to answer the first question that the Quran answered more than14 hundreds years ago regarding Jesus peace be upon him and why he is not god - that Jesus himself never said as demonstrated by scholars of the New Testament as Bart Ehrman-. Here is the answer of the Quran for the first question:
إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَىٰ عِندَ اللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ ۖ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ (الاعراف: 59)
Al-araaf- chapter7: verse 59. Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.
that also shows the lecture ignorance of the Kalima as a Quranic concept that can be seen in the verse 59 as the divine order “Be” that remains related to the sphere of order that control and remains above the sphere of laws. The plural of Kalima كلمة is Kalimat كلمات, and the Quran use that same concept to show the infinite number of God’s Kalimat as in :
قُل لَّوْ كَانَ الْبَحْرُ مِدَادًا لِّكَلِمَاتِ رَبِّي لَنَفِدَ الْبَحْرُ قَبْلَ أَن تَنفَدَ كَلِمَاتُ رَبِّي وَلَوْ جِئْنَا بِمِثْلِهِ مَدَدًا (الكهف:109)
Al-Kahn- Chapter18: verse109. Say: Though the sea became ink for the Words of my Lord, verily the sea would be used up before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even though We brought the like thereof to help.
Also in Chapter #31, Verse #27:
وَلَوْ أَنَّمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ مِن شَجَرَةٍ أَقْلَامٌ وَالْبَحْرُ يَمُدُّهُ مِن بَعْدِهِ سَبْعَةُ أَبْحُرٍ مَّا نَفِدَتْ كَلِمَاتُ اللَّهِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ . (لقمان:27)
27. And if all the trees in the earth were pens, and the sea, with seven more seas to help it, (were ink), the words of Allah could not be exhausted. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise.
God’s words are manifest in what He revealed ( reference of meaning & guidance) as in al-Kahf, and also infinitely manifest in Gods creations. Therefore Jesus peace be upon him is one of his creation as shown in al-araaf-chapter 7above.
the Quran also advance more rational arguments why Jesus cannot be God.,For instance in chapter5:verse 75
مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلَّا رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ صِدِّيقَةٌ ۖ كَانَا يَأْكُلَانِ الطَّعَامَ ۗ انظُرْ كَيْفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ الْآيَاتِ ثُمَّ انظُرْ أَنَّىٰ يُؤْفَكُونَ (المائدة: 75)
75. The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!
Also in ch5:v17
لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ ۚ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئًا إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِي الْأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا ۗ وَلِلَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا ۚ يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاءُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ (المائدة:17)
17. They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things.
the other bias is to base the lecture on the idea that all others history is well known (Romans, Persians, Christians, you name it), but the history of early Islam that reshaped the whole world and remains alive with its early events till nowadays should me totally ignored.
Thank you for sharing.. God Knows best.
The date of the Qur'an was not in question in this lecture.
Great response 👍.
This comment is directed to Mary from Brazil
For us Muslims Jesus was made the same way as Adam was made btw nobody claims that Adam is the son of God
One false prophet negating another false prophet. Although, I would take the false prophet that doesn't enslave, rape, murder, or endorse pedophilia.
Let's look at these claims.
"enslave":
Qur'an, 90:11-13
"If only they had attempted the challenging path of good?"
"And what will make them recognize the challenging path of good?"
"It is to free a slave"
"rape/endorse pedophilia"
I assume you're talking about his marriage to our spiritual mother Aisha(RA) .
There's really an intuitive answer to this: People then matured faster than people now, physically and mentally.
+ Aisha(RA) showed no signs of being abused, she was quite extroverted at times, even leading an army into battle against Ali(RA).
+ to be consistent with this idea, you'd have to maintain that the majority of people up to the 18th ish century were pedophiles because their spouses were, what would be considered to day, quite young. This is anachronistic, because of course, they matured faster during those times.
"Test ˹the competence of˺ the orphans until they reach a marriageable age. Then if you feel they are capable of sound judgment, return their wealth to them."
Extract from Qur'an 4:6, which clearly mentions the concept of marriageable age.
"murder"
"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. "
Extract from Qur'an 5:32. Coming down very harshly on murder, in my opinion, saying that it is as if you've killed all of mankind.
The contradiction here is that the jacobites and nestorians do not really resemble the so called correct christian belief that the Quran approves of.
With due respect to the senior scholar, he gives me an impression that he hasn't yet fully understood the abc of Islam or he is here to deliberately misguide the people.
😆
As written in the bible does Jesus not say there will be no Prophet after me. unlike what the Prof stated.?
Jesus was the last in the line of Yitzchak/Isaac and Muhammad was the Last in the line of Ishmael.
@@sidprice6214 All very confusing, there should be one God and one religion we are all children of Abraham. Why the distinction from the children from Ismael and Isaac. God said himself that the descendants from Ismael would be troublesome or Ishmael himself would be troublesome.
@@johnswinkels4383 It is actually quite straight forward.
It is One God, one religion, one Book and one Family. This is stated in the Quran. Careful reading of Genesis will also show this.
The distinction came about because Abraham's first wife Sarah was barren. Abraham's second wife Hagar produced his first son Ishmael from which the Muslims have sprung.
Abraham's second son Isaac (by 14 years) is from Sarah.
From Isaac we get Jacob followed by his 12 sons the 4th being called Judah. After Nebuchednessar wiped out the northern kingdom pretty much on Judahs tribe called Jews survived
Good talk!
But the remark about "looking around, I didn't think there are any Muslims" is so racist!
What was that about??
Islam is not a race. It's a religion. And maybe he though they weren't interested in a scholarly view of Islam. I would think the same, after all the probability of them hearing something they don't like is high.
@Robert Harmanaccording to the diccionary: 'the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or any such system of belief and worship'
@Robert Harman, it can be both.
@Robert Harman Because it is recognized as such in the world
@Robert Harman what do you think the definition of bigotry is?
The Immaculate Conception relates to Mary and her parents, NOT to Jesus and Mary. What a goof!
It is pathetic how western Christians can only accept Isam as a faction of Christianity, GROW UP!
52:00 interesting association between city of Hira (where Christian roots begin) and mount Harra’ (Muhammad receiving revelation).
Since the word "muhammad" means the praised one, and in Syriac Aramaic language is written the same way as in Arabic, hence "Muhammad" receiving revelation is actually referring to Jesus. There's no mention of Islamic Muhammad being a prophet nor was the Quran revealed to him anywhere in the Quran.
@@earthlycreature8772 So now Jesus is a Prophet received Revelation in Hira? Revelation from who ?
Himself ? 🙈
@@andanandan6061 How did you figure that Jesus received revelation from himself?
I don’t see any evidence for anything un-natural, therefore I am not convinced that there is anything unnatural or supernatural like magic, ‘jadoo’, spirits, ghost, ‘jins’, ‘rooh’ and gods . originally from Karachi Pakistan and Teer Haripur Hazaara, now ex-Muslim Atheist ,
I'm quite a huge skeptic but I've experienced Jinns. So they do exist
@@noman8193 one can believe in evil without having to follow a stone licking pagan who makes two billion people bow down and pray to a temple full of idols.
"Be, and it is" or in Arabic "كُن فَيَكُونُ". This is the basic corner stone of Islamic theology I am surprised the professor didn't know. God simply commands the existence and it is. Adam had no father and it is no surprising feat that God can create another just like him again.
Interesting story, but it doesn't address many facts, like, how Quran has this consistency if multiple authors wrote it? How come no one in the community of early Muslims blew the whistle on the origin of the Quran, as this learned professor discovered it after 1500 years in the present time? It is an entertaining but comical theory!
It would be interesting if you were able to find documents about The Prophet from the +_200 yr gap Severs is talking about. Remember also that the lecture isn't meant to be questioning a Muslims' faith in God,..... it is simply looking for historical documents describing the origins of that expression of faith.
Consistency? Not the case. Like the Old Testament (much vaster) or the Gospels. These have doublets, contradictions, multiple detectable ecletic sources, etc. Complex texts. Of course it was compiled later. The Old Testament also, with stories like the Deluge received in Babylonia; the Gospels were written after aprox. 40 years in Greek. They speak about Jesus born and jump to his 33rd year. Well... religions. We need to believe in something.
As a former Christian, now Muslim, well versed in early Church history I spent 20 minutes listening to a talk about Nestorianism and other Christian heresies....not material about Islam! Get to the point!!!
@Daisy. The point is Islam being an off shoot of Christianity was corrupted by a vile, psychotic 7th. century warlord, calling himself prophet for political gains.
Why not ponder on the Trinity origins? You will be lost in explaining it and convincing people about it's dogmatic importance to your faith.
Tons of information but no clear message in regards to the subject of "Islamic Origins."