Retired USAF, Crew Chief and flying crew member. (70s-90s) The worst thing of all, was how the loss of aircrew was on the spouse (and family). I cannot imagine the absolute grief of his wife/mother of the children. Just heart breaking all around. Thank you Juan, for bringing such concise and no BS analysis and presentation, time after time. To those not well versed in "all things aviation" or proper debrief, this is the template, right here.
@@RubenKelevra was an airmet for icing so anyone who preflighted knew what they were getting into. Had the 22T on max when descending through about 6 thousand
@@vasilivhthis. I think they use the accelerometer in the watch/ phone to judge if there has been a car crash, gives you an alert on your device, then if you don't acknowledge it automatically calls/ notifies your emergency contact and/or 911, depending on how you have it set up. I recall seeing a commercial touting this feature. Basically turns your device into an epirb.
@@BassBrigade2089 because having an apple watch / iphone is the only thing that makes sense, he wasn't going to be calling or messaging anyone "SOS" while crashing, while his watch/phone would have done exactly that
I was flying in and out of DFW all day that day. Yes, my CRJ picked up pretty good icing in the clouds in the descent out of about 6000’. It was mostly clear above that, plus a temperature inversion where it was about 14-15 degrees Celsius above the clouds around 7000’.
Damn shame. I had planned a flight in west TX a week ago, checked all my weather apps and it looked like an easy VFR flight over Lubbock to Amarillo. But I always get a weather briefing in winter, and when I did I learned that icing conditions had set in along my route that were not noted in ForeFlight or my other aviation weather forecasts. I drove instead, and an easy 2-hr flight became a 6-hr drive, but I got there alive. Icing is no joke. 1-800-WXBRIEF is your friend. I wonder if this pilot used it?
I was flying in to Tyler that day as the winter storm system was moving in. I was in an Citation. We were only in the clouds for a couple of minutes on the approach but picked up quite a bit of clear ice. What was really crazy about it was the temperature inversion that particular day. It was 12 degrees at like 5,000’ and by the time you got to 2,000 it was below freezing. Really really weird and very favorable conditions for some pretty heavy icing.
That was a time to reduce power, push out the landing lights and come down at 1,500 fpm and get through it very quickly, or better yet, find a better place to go. I can't imagine what was so important with your kids on board that waiting a day couldn't work.
I live south of Tyler. Somebody flew over the house northbound just above the treetops. That was only the second time it’s happened in 20 years. Maybe they were on the deck because of the weather.
I always appreciate the tasteful and objective analysis of these events. All of these fatal accidents involve people's friends, family and loved ones and Juan handles it with sensitivity. We can all learn so much from these accidents, and we should, so they don't happen again, and we don't make the same mistakes.
With these crazy low temps ANY moisture you hit will cause icing. And it will be to the ground. Here in midwest we had freezing fog at ground level recently, something rare here.
Flew these for a long time in the Northern UK across the Irish sea and the North sea. I had full de-icing kit, props, windows, boots on tail and wings. It was still a handful even in inadvertent mild icing conditions. Ice builds up between the engines and fuselage under the leading edge of the wing. Then as it gets slow the AoA increases and the ice increases.. it cannot survive for long ... and ice builds up on the front of the main tanks...
Oddly, I was looking for routes both by air and on land to get a cancer patient into Houston from that area where Dr. Smith crashed. It was definitely ice…it was not suitable to fly in. My sincere condolences to the family…
Those ADS-B speed fluctuations are a common artifact for some aircraft on FlightAware. My last flight in a 182 had an occasional ground speed shown on FlightAware of 344 knots! It seems to be primarily aircraft with 978mhz UAT ADS-B out combined with a mode S transponder and is likely due to MLAT approximations when the aircraft moves out of UAT receiver range.
I was out the one week ago and it was hell. I was in a Citation XL and we were hearing reports of icing all over and moderate to severe turbulence. This winter weather is no joke! Take good care people.
I’ve lived a lot of my life in a place where we get real winter, but I’ve never seen freezing rain here. However, I’ve spent the last two winters in Texas and I now have a clear understanding of what freezing rain is. I could not possibly imagine getting in a plane in those conditions, and like you I wouldn’t get out on the road either! Totally irresponsible to think you’re safe to fly or drive in those conditions.
"A deicing boot consists of a thick rubber membrane that is installed over the surface to be deiced. As atmospheric icing occurs and ice builds up, a pneumatic system inflates the boot with compressed air. This expansion in size cracks any ice that has accumulated, and this ice is blown away into the airflow. The boots are then deflated to return the wing or surface to its optimal shape."
@@wb6anp Right....I've been told there is some technique required with them as too early use can stretch the ice out and the rest then bridges on it where the boots can't break it off. Got to wait until there's enough that's thick enough to shatter when the boots inflate but not wait so long that they can't break it.
my brother once chartered a 310 with a young kid pilot from ohio to iowa...IMC....at night...iced up( sounded like someone was slapping the side of the nose when ice flung off) this kid was concentrating so hard on altitude he forgot to switch tanks so we got a momentary loss of breath. We probably came pretty close to dying that night. I'm glad i was to young ,maybe 15, to realize it at the time
A specific condition, and one we don’t usually see here in North TEX much, was happening that day and may have impacted this flight. Lake effect snow! There was a strong north wind and single digit F temps. Practically all areas south of lake size bodies of water were getting snow. Note Lake Bridgeport at his destination, 20 miles to the north of this accident.
Excellent summary as usual. Week in week out it seems, yet another light twin death zone. Basic training is still wanting. Pick only one. ice, imc, night, terrain as Dan Gryder says.
Wow... I heard this aircraft on my scanner when he was talking to ATC about his route of flight and how to get around the weather. I live between Houston and San Antonio and get a lot of different traffic, mostly airliner. I looked the enroute weather up and thought he had to have been in a jet. I didn't look the N number up.
@@brandongentry66 My scanner picks up various ARTCC sites (sectors) and a couple of RCAG sites. The scanner, a Uniden SDS 200, isn't near me so I rarely see what site it's picking up. Assuming the flight was direct my guess is it was an RCAG, San Antonio ARTCC, or Austin. It was not a good day for a GA aircraft to be in the air. We have too many resources at our fingertips to not know icing conditions existed.
@@brandongentry66 First let me say I'm very, very sorry for the loss of your friend and his children. I had a big reply typed up and accidentally lost it. I spent 30m looking at the ADSB track on ADSB Exchange. I have the paid version because I have a receiver and share data with them. IMHO it's a lot better than the free one. Anyway. The short version of what I typed. The ASN link in Juan's description is decent. ADSB Exchange doesn't show the spikes in airspeed that FlightAware shows. He had a fairly normal flight. I don't think it was icing either but I don't know. Somewhere around Hamilton he started a 600(ish+) fpm descent from 6,800' to 6,700, completing that around Hamilton where he started a climb back to 6,800. He completed that a little before (west of) Grandbury. Then at 18:04:33, 228 kts, 6,825', he started a descent and at 18:05:02 he was at 226kts and 6,650'. Nothing alarming there. From there he started a normal descent and slowing the aircraft for approach. The final ping was descending, 1,575', 151kts. That's low. There are a lot of towers and power lines between him and the airport but they are all 300-400' agl. 4,200' is the OROCA for that sector. 3,700' is the OROCA for the Mineral Wells sector (that's what I'm calling it because it's to the east of Mineral Wells.) There are two towers along the route of flight. 1,482' (320' agl) and 1,362' (261' AGL). His last ping was at 1,575'. I would think someone would notice if a tower or power line was struck but extrapolating the terrain is around 1,100' in that area. I wonder if he had a local altimeter setting?
We don't need people to die to know not to do things. The rest of us don't do this. It's not like some new thing that nobody knew about nor something that I've seen pilots be complacent with. At least not where i live.
Lots of the accidents on here won't just happen to anyone. Lots are not freak accidents. Before you take off you know if your aircraft is equipped for icing conditions. You know not to fly below minimums on approach and fly into power lines well off to the side of the runway, to not descend into a valley at high density altitude. Not to fly into cloud without a working AH. People make mistakes. These aren't mistakes. These are arrogance
It's really cold here in TX right now. Even yesterday, SA international was near dead, didn't see much commercial air travel coming in or leaving and I live in the medical center in SA, near the airport. If it's a bit too cold for domestic & international flights, I couldn't imagine being in a small plane in these horrid icing conditions without de-icing equipment. And remember: de-icing equipment is made for you to ESCAPE an icing situation, not fly through it.
I don’t think it’s too cold for domestic and international flights. De-icing is made for flight in icing conditions, except for severe icing. It really isn’t made to escape an icing situation. I’m perfectly fine flying a jet in icing conditions.
This plane flew over my house about 10 miles south of the incident site. Thought to myself self I hope the heater is working and ain’t no way I’d be flying in these conditions. Honestly thought it was a radial engine overhead and that’s why it caught my attention. It just sounded off for a twin.
Whoa! That's heavy. I wasn't that close to the crash site as you were. But the helicopter that crashed with Kobe Bryant aboard passed overhead about 150 yds. at 400 ft. altitude @ 150 mph. I remember a helicopter about 9:15 AM that morning that rattled my windows. I thought it was a MediVac because of the sound and speed. The LASD isn't up that early. I didn't know until I pulled up the flight later.
I probably built that 310. I worked on the 310 line for a few years before I left in 1978 to flight instruct full time. Most of my multi-engine training was done in a 310.
No better advise given Juan, currently instrument training in Omaha, where winter weather conditions come into the go no go decision constantly. RIP Dr Smith, prayers be with you
There is a huge misunderstanding of deice capability and requirements. I owned a 1976 C310R that had boots on the outer wing, horizontal stab, and heated props. This plane was NOT FIKI (flight into known ice) yet many believe you could plan and fly through known ice. The 1977 and on are FIKI certified with the addition of inner wing boots, vertical stab boots, and a windshield hot plate. Bottom line Do Not Plan or Fly into known or forecast ice unless your plane if FIKI certified on the type certificate.
My brother in law is currently stuck in Nashville because big deiced jets are cancelled to fly north to NY. Actually flights have been cancelled for at least two days out of Nashville . This, I'll get you there" attitude is crashing a lot of planes this year do to pilots (actually not thinking) thinking they are better than nature .
Hindsight, while so often 20-20, it is also all too often sad sight. Heartfelt condolences to all those and their families devastated by this incident. RIP
Back when I flew for a living, we had a saying; "Hindsight is a lot more like 20-10. Make your foresight 20-10, and you'll live longer." The longer I flew, the more I realized the truth to it. In my final years, at the end of the weather briefing, I'd ask myself what about this flight would the accident investigation board members shake their heads about and ask "What was he thinking?" Based upon the flight data, I'm not at all convinced that this was an icing-induced crash. Hopefully, the board will be able to find the cause.
From what I remember flying the 310. If the windshield is obscured by ice it can very difficult to deal with. Add that to possibly trying to scud run, it’s not a good combination for sure. It will be interesting to see what they figure out on this.
Thank you for making these videos. I know it can't be easy to cover these tragic incidents, but it's a great service to the aviation community. Thank You.
One of my first jobs in 1980 was flying a 310R nightly from Kansas City to Chicago and return. The airplane had known ice equipment and it got a workout in the winter. The biggest problem was dealing with mixed rime building forward on the tip tanks. I can imagine the accident aircraft was overwhelmed with ice very quick. Condolences to friends and family left behind.
Juan thanks for all you do. I thought the 310R was fiki, it looked like the accident aircraft had deice boots. I know the area got some bad snow that day, I'm guessing it was just too much icing to handle. I've heard stories of people from hot states (ie Texas) not being used to icing and so maybe forgetting pitot heat and so altitude is unreliable and autopilot flies you right into the ground as well. Have you seen the baron 55 that went down in MA? Looks like another Vmc demo turned uncoordinated stall/spin. Flight school chief instructor and owner and student on board. We really need the FAA to change the multi requirements. As a twin pilot, I see no reason to ever go below Vyse especially as a "demonstration" to see how bad it is. We should be teaching to maintain blue line at all costs, even if it means a descent is all you can maintain. What are your thoughts? I think as someone who advocates for airplane safety this would save a lot of lives if that were changed. We have had 5 or so crashes during Vmc demos in the last year or so
I flew last week in a Challenger650, the weather was terrible everywhere 2 to 400 foot ceilings in fog .seemed like all over the country a half mile or less in many places. Even in Las, Vegas was down to 500 feet and rain never seen that in 22 years.
So tragic. A news article quotes the brother of the pilot stating he was confident in his brother's skill as a pilot as he had over 2 decades of flying experience having gained his license in high school. There was also an 11 year old son who didn't go on the hunting trip because of a math and science competition at school. That young man will live all his life wondering about the if's and why's of what happened.
Could it be that he failed to make a cold temperature correction for pressure altitude? Seems 800ft/min ROD is a controlled descent - not one influenced by ice on the leading edge. Possibly some ice on the pitot system?
I once flew for a 135 operation. The day they asked me to fly a Cessna 210 with only a hot prop into known icing conditions in the Pacific Northwest was my last day. The first phrase “you’re fine until you’re not” strikes home in this and all icing situations.
This reminds me of my last day. I flew into a village in Alaska and couldn't find our agent. So found some transportation and brought the mail to the PO myself. This all took so long the company initiated S&R on me. Later the station manager told me he was glad they didn't loose me on my last day after all, I was glad too.
His brother said Smith got his license in high school, had been flying for 20 years, and was an experienced & cautious pilot. His brother suspects the weather cold front as a factor in the crash. Smith left behind a wife and 1 older son.
I've flown in some conditions that even with FIKI capabilities I was worried for the safety of the flight. It always makes me a little nervous regardless.
Weather makes you nervous? Good, it should. As a GA pilot i believe it is the MOST underappreciated risk factor. “Good enough” ADM leads to poor (almost joke-level) flight planning. Ice should seriously concern us. Things can go south FAST. You are wise to be nervous.
It is looking like there have been a couple of recent crashes that indicate these new electronic devices such as the autopilot may require a lot more airtime training before a license is issued, if money is not a problem it looks like one can get their license with only a few more hours than getting a driver's license. The young lady who went down in Tennessee recently was lost while circling the airport she had just taken off from was in clear sight of her craft, a clear sign of no idea of what she was doing, and was trying to get the autopilot to get her out of trouble.
My advice to all instrument rated pilots: Stay out of the clouds in icing, period. No exceptions. Stay at least 3 to 4 thousand feet below the freezing level. If you can't do that, don't fly. There are two things most general aviation pilots need to avoid at all cost: Thunderstorms and icing conditions.
What was the air pressure (QNH) at departure and destination? When I flew coast to coast several times in a Mooney back in the day I crossed fronts a couple of times that had a significant change.
There was a Fatal crash this past weekend in Half Moon Bay. Apparently, the plane was a homebuilt Cozy Mark IV. Never heard of it but I'm sure Juan will be on the case.
This is going to be a difficult one to evaluate. Condolences to the family. Tragic loss. Pilot incapacitation is very possible. Carbon monoxide from the heater? Or, he might have fallen asleep. The ads-b data just doesn’t point to an ice related event. IMO. I fly for a living. At one point in my career I was an sim instructor in the Conquest and Turbo Commanders. One of the sim profiles was a snowy night out of Boeing field. I would give a takeoff clearance that stated previous departing 737 reported severe icing in the climb. It always amazed me at the number of pilots that would takeoff into those conditions. It made for a great training event.
Not sure this profile points to ice and could be several other things (bad autopilot altitude select that was AGL and not MSL, incapacitation, distraction, intake blockage, etc.). Hopefully there's some clue in the ATC transcripts and/or wreckage. Very sad story for this family.
Happened to me over mountains imc , the ice built up so fast that within seconds I had 10inches of ice everywhere, I was fortunate that the ice melted before heating the mountains
Had this happen in the Sim the other day was flying with only pitot heat didn't think the plane would have issue flying out of TX but a few minutes in everything wad freezing Dallas to San Antonio crazy how real the Sim is now that I know this happend rip
The main issue with autopilot is that it will hold, hold, hold.... And then suddenly quit... And if you cant/don't react appropriately, you're f-d. Imo the AP should warn pilot when it's reaching its operational limits... Not only keep fixing a bad situation until it can't no more...
Juan, instead of descent planning 5 times the altitude to loose, I find that doesn’t account for headwinds/tailwinds. Instead, try doubling the altitude (in thousands) to plan on when to start down. For example, if you have 7,000 feet to lose, start down when you are 14 minutes from eta, and use 500fpm. If I have a good tailwind (or it’s hot and bumpy down low), I’ll delay it till 7 minutes out, and use 1,000 fpm.
Sad. My Dad says don't be in a hurry to get there in bad weather. They'll be searching for your plane wreck on a beautiful sunny day the next day. Icing might have got him, but the weather was really bad here on the 14th. He probably never saw the terrain due to the cloud cover.
What if he simply had an improper altimeter setting and wanted to try and get low enough to 'skud' untill getting the runway lights BUT flew it into the ground on the account of watching an altimeter that was possibly 1,2,300 feet incorrect?
Icing is serious business. Many aircraft with de-ice boots have crashed due to either inop boots or pilots not using de-ice in icing conditions, or pilots unaware of ice on the tail i.e. tail plane stall. I don’t know how serious of an emphasis CFII instructors are putting in this but the fact that this continues to happen every winter is very concerning.
No VG's either which, in ice, mean nothing, however. It does say something about safety as VG's are inexpensive as compared to the dramatic increase in safety especially on a piston twin. We had them on our Baron and C310P. My point is simply decision making when it comes to safety. Example, did they have shoulder harnesses? Necessary risk vs un-necessary risk. RIP
N71S our 310 had boots, alcohol, RayJay turbos, the only light blue, gold and black trim Riley Rocket. Last seen on a farm in Missouri. A Harvey on steroids.
How tragic! Double-take time with Poolville mention since my great grandparents lived there, and it's where my grandfather was born. Surely the doctor wasn't trying to show off to two young children who might've been fussy after a long flight? It looks like he did everything "by the book" till he flew into terrain, like he had a fatal distraction moment. RIP.
2:36 There is a wise adage, that if you don't see some unexplainable glitch in the data, something is not right. You expect at least one unexplainable thing in a data log. This one had two so it's great.
My Dad, who had many thousands of hours of many civil aircraft with VFR, IFR, Multi-Engine, Jet, Seaplane, and other ratings, would NEVER have flone in icing conditions without having an aircraft that had full deicing capability. I would not be surprised if this pilot had no IFR cert. My Pop called stuff like this "Darwin With Wings". Cold and ice are absolutely unforgiving.
Hi Juan, if you have time could you please review the triple fatal twin crash in Massachusetts that happened on Sunday, 14th that involved a flight school. Looks like a flat spin to the ground after some turns. Thank you and keep up the great job you do. Safe flying.
So very sad, and very hard to understand. One would think if it were a flight surface icing induced crash that there would be signs of a stall in the ADS-B data.
I was in the hangar last week, fussing around like pilots do when the weather is poor. I had the tower freq on and there was nothing happening... then a 172 asked for clearance for circuits. We've had Icing conditions from ground level to 15-20K feet in our area pretty consistently for weeks; so tower advised that conditions were VFR but that there was known icing. The pilot acknowledged and then took off, he did 3 circuits and each time tower advised that conditions were VFR but that there was known icing. On the 4th time the pilot asked for clearance to take off and depart to the North, again tower advised and off went the 172. I just don't get what was so important that the guy was willing to risk known icing conditions in a plane that was not equipped.
I wonder if they had a static blockage and wrong altimeter reading. I was tempted once to fit 2nd altimeter just open to cabin pressure. Only a minor error, with practice error can be adjusted for, but won't ice up.
..I flew into SFO from Dulles. e took off in snow and once we came out of the clouds EVERYTHING from Virginia to The Great Basin was WHITE....EVERYTHING.......
Getting my IRF ticket taught me that I could fly in clouds. Reality taught me that I could not do that very much living in Wisconsin, where from Oct thru March is a lot of risk with not only being safe, but also being legal. Lots of guys would say, "BAAAH!" Go ahead, fill your bag of experience before your bag of luck runs out.
Please remember that even private aircraft accidents are rare and always make the news. Second the Cessna 310 is a good aircraft. That being said I witnessed a Cessna 310 fatal crash about 1000 feet from me way back on September 11, 1981. That crash was almost certainly caused by a medical emergency of the pilot and subsequent inability of the passenger (pilot’s son) to regain control over the aircraft. It slammed into the roof of the Swing auditorium in the Orange Show fairgrounds in San Bernardino California. Obviously it was not any fault of the aircraft, but I don’t think I could talk myself into flying in that model ever.
Damn shame. Wonder what happened. This was a smart man and experienced pilot. It's one thing to risk yourself. No one risks their children. Something happened. Prayers up.
Retired USAF, Crew Chief and flying crew member. (70s-90s)
The worst thing of all, was how the loss of aircrew was on the spouse (and family). I cannot imagine the absolute grief of his wife/mother of the children.
Just heart breaking all around.
Thank you Juan, for bringing such concise and no BS analysis and presentation, time after time.
To those not well versed in "all things aviation" or proper debrief, this is the template, right here.
The kids were 6 and 8. Makes me sick thinking about it.
....and no banjo music. Takes "that other guy" a half hour to get to the point.
I was flying 15 miles south when the pilot crashed and there was severe icing conditions. Wasn’t a good day to fly. RIP
But I'm sure you was aware before hand that there's icing conditions.
@@RubenKelevra was an airmet for icing so anyone who preflighted knew what they were getting into. Had the 22T on max when descending through about 6 thousand
Wonder what his rush to go up in those conditions was and risk his kids too.
@@badkneesone probably get-there-itis or invincibility due to his profession and social status?
@@jaredh723sounds like you took a risk and relied heavily on anti ice measures that are not fool proof. Smart.
His brother said on local news that they got an SOS message and went and found the wreckage themselves. RIP and condolences to the the brother.
I can not even imagine how devasting that must have been , loss of a brother and 2 young children 😢😢
@@BassBrigade2089 probably means an automated SOS, like from Apple Watch
@@vasilivhthis. I think they use the accelerometer in the watch/ phone to judge if there has been a car crash, gives you an alert on your device, then if you don't acknowledge it automatically calls/ notifies your emergency contact and/or 911, depending on how you have it set up. I recall seeing a commercial touting this feature. Basically turns your device into an epirb.
@@BassBrigade2089 it sounded like it was the automated crash detection from the phone. The apple SOS service.
@@BassBrigade2089 because having an apple watch / iphone is the only thing that makes sense, he wasn't going to be calling or messaging anyone "SOS" while crashing, while his watch/phone would have done exactly that
An advisory I learned early and repeat often. "Most bad weather accidents are investigated a few hours later in good weather".
Exactly. I can live to evaluate whether it's worth being pissed off about a delay.
So sad, but so true.
Pilots dying in bad weather are often buried in sunshine
I was flying in and out of DFW all day that day. Yes, my CRJ picked up pretty good icing in the clouds in the descent out of about 6000’. It was mostly clear above that, plus a temperature inversion where it was about 14-15 degrees Celsius above the clouds around 7000’.
love me some crj flights
Same, above clouds at 210 knots descending we had a tat of 12c. Immediately entering imc tat dropped to 8c.
My hard and fast no-go is the freezing level. Seen too many accidents related to icing.
Damn shame. I had planned a flight in west TX a week ago, checked all my weather apps and it looked like an easy VFR flight over Lubbock to Amarillo. But I always get a weather briefing in winter, and when I did I learned that icing conditions had set in along my route that were not noted in ForeFlight or my other aviation weather forecasts. I drove instead, and an easy 2-hr flight became a 6-hr drive, but I got there alive. Icing is no joke. 1-800-WXBRIEF is your friend. I wonder if this pilot used it?
I was flying in to Tyler that day as the winter storm system was moving in. I was in an Citation. We were only in the clouds for a couple of minutes on the approach but picked up quite a bit of clear ice. What was really crazy about it was the temperature inversion that particular day. It was 12 degrees at like 5,000’ and by the time you got to 2,000 it was below freezing. Really really weird and very favorable conditions for some pretty heavy icing.
That was a time to reduce power, push out the landing lights and come down at 1,500 fpm and get through it very quickly, or better yet, find a better place to go. I can't imagine what was so important with your kids on board that waiting a day couldn't work.
@@kristinwinter5006get there-itis. A common human factor that affects all pilots but more so the pilots with less experience.
I live south of Tyler. Somebody flew over the house northbound just above the treetops. That was only the second time it’s happened in 20 years. Maybe they were on the deck because of the weather.
@@PeopleAlreadyDidThis When was this? It couldn’t have been me because I was simply on the LOC and GS landing on 04.
12* is below freezing. Can you correct your data?
I always appreciate the tasteful and objective analysis of these events. All of these fatal accidents involve people's friends, family and loved ones and Juan handles it with sensitivity. We can all learn so much from these accidents, and we should, so they don't happen again, and we don't make the same mistakes.
With these crazy low temps ANY moisture you hit will cause icing. And it will be to the ground. Here in midwest we had freezing fog at ground level recently, something rare here.
Good point, nightmarish scenario and again why situational awareness is so important!
Flew these for a long time in the Northern UK across the Irish sea and the North sea. I had full de-icing kit, props, windows, boots on tail and wings. It was still a handful even in inadvertent mild icing conditions. Ice builds up between the engines and fuselage under the leading edge of the wing. Then as it gets slow the AoA increases and the ice increases.. it cannot survive for long ... and ice builds up on the front of the main tanks...
Oddly, I was looking for routes both by air and on land to get a cancer patient into Houston from that area where Dr. Smith crashed.
It was definitely ice…it was not suitable to fly in.
My sincere condolences to the family…
Those ADS-B speed fluctuations are a common artifact for some aircraft on FlightAware. My last flight in a 182 had an occasional ground speed shown on FlightAware of 344 knots! It seems to be primarily aircraft with 978mhz UAT ADS-B out combined with a mode S transponder and is likely due to MLAT approximations when the aircraft moves out of UAT receiver range.
We picked up some light rime ice on approach into DFW in the 73 when this happened and made a PIREP. Really sad accident.
The best aviation page on YT, hands down.
I think dan is a close tie also ✌🏻
Dan is a misogynist and a conspiracy theorist who defames people for youtube views ($1m defamation judgement against him last fall). @@AnonYmous-v1f6b
@@AnonYmous-v1f6b not even close...my respect for Juan motivates me to leave it at that
@@AnonYmous-v1f6bwho is Dan?
Totally agree.
I was out the one week ago and it was hell. I was in a Citation XL and we were hearing reports of icing all over and moderate to severe turbulence. This winter weather is no joke! Take good care people.
Greetings from Canada in this cold freeze: I wouldn't get into my TRUCK right now. Stay safe all the way to Alabama.
😂
I’ve lived a lot of my life in a place where we get real winter, but I’ve never seen freezing rain here. However, I’ve spent the last two winters in Texas and I now have a clear understanding of what freezing rain is. I could not possibly imagine getting in a plane in those conditions, and like you I wouldn’t get out on the road either! Totally irresponsible to think you’re safe to fly or drive in those conditions.
"A deicing boot consists of a thick rubber membrane that is installed over the surface to be deiced. As atmospheric icing occurs and ice builds up, a pneumatic system inflates the boot with compressed air. This expansion in size cracks any ice that has accumulated, and this ice is blown away into the airflow. The boots are then deflated to return the wing or surface to its optimal shape."
One problem with boots, if icing is bad enough ice can start to bridge the inflated boots and make them useless.
@@wb6anp Right....I've been told there is some technique required with them as too early use can stretch the ice out and the rest then bridges on it where the boots can't break it off. Got to wait until there's enough that's thick enough to shatter when the boots inflate but not wait so long that they can't break it.
So sorry to hear about this devastating loss. May they rest in peace. 😢
my brother once chartered a 310 with a young kid pilot from ohio to iowa...IMC....at night...iced up( sounded like someone was slapping the side of the nose when ice flung off) this kid was concentrating so hard on altitude he forgot to switch tanks so we got a momentary loss of breath. We probably came pretty close to dying that night. I'm glad i was to young ,maybe 15, to realize it at the time
Buddy holly territory almost ✌🏻
Ice hitting the nose is normal.
A specific condition, and one we don’t usually see here in North TEX much, was happening that day and may have impacted this flight. Lake effect snow! There was a strong north wind and single digit F temps. Practically all areas south of lake size bodies of water were getting snow. Note Lake Bridgeport at his destination, 20 miles to the north of this accident.
wow, You would think that the weather forecast would have said something, it did. this guy was an idiot...
And Sunday, 14 Jan.
What a tragedy for the family and community. Hope they’re getting a lot of help and support.
Excellent summary as usual. Week in week out it seems, yet another light twin death zone. Basic training is still wanting. Pick only one. ice, imc, night, terrain as Dan Gryder says.
Wow... I heard this aircraft on my scanner when he was talking to ATC about his route of flight and how to get around the weather. I live between Houston and San Antonio and get a lot of different traffic, mostly airliner. I looked the enroute weather up and thought he had to have been in a jet. I didn't look the N number up.
What frequency was he on?
@@brandongentry66 My scanner picks up various ARTCC sites (sectors) and a couple of RCAG sites. The scanner, a Uniden SDS 200, isn't near me so I rarely see what site it's picking up. Assuming the flight was direct my guess is it was an RCAG, San Antonio ARTCC, or Austin.
It was not a good day for a GA aircraft to be in the air. We have too many resources at our fingertips to not know icing conditions existed.
@@MichaelLloyd yessir I had the same thoughts. He was a friend of mine. Experienced pilot. Doesn’t make sense.
@@brandongentry66 First let me say I'm very, very sorry for the loss of your friend and his children. I had a big reply typed up and accidentally lost it. I spent 30m looking at the ADSB track on ADSB Exchange. I have the paid version because I have a receiver and share data with them. IMHO it's a lot better than the free one. Anyway. The short version of what I typed. The ASN link in Juan's description is decent. ADSB Exchange doesn't show the spikes in airspeed that FlightAware shows. He had a fairly normal flight. I don't think it was icing either but I don't know. Somewhere around Hamilton he started a 600(ish+) fpm descent from 6,800' to 6,700, completing that around Hamilton where he started a climb back to 6,800. He completed that a little before (west of) Grandbury. Then at 18:04:33, 228 kts, 6,825', he started a descent and at 18:05:02 he was at 226kts and 6,650'. Nothing alarming there. From there he started a normal descent and slowing the aircraft for approach. The final ping was descending, 1,575', 151kts. That's low. There are a lot of towers and power lines between him and the airport but they are all 300-400' agl. 4,200' is the OROCA for that sector. 3,700' is the OROCA for the Mineral Wells sector (that's what I'm calling it because it's to the east of Mineral Wells.) There are two towers along the route of flight. 1,482' (320' agl) and 1,362' (261' AGL). His last ping was at 1,575'. I would think someone would notice if a tower or power line was struck but extrapolating the terrain is around 1,100' in that area. I wonder if he had a local altimeter setting?
A heartbreaking loss, my condolences to the family and their friends. I hope our aviation families heed the lessons learn from this accident.
We don't need people to die to know not to do things. The rest of us don't do this.
It's not like some new thing that nobody knew about nor something that I've seen pilots be complacent with. At least not where i live.
Lots of the accidents on here won't just happen to anyone. Lots are not freak accidents. Before you take off you know if your aircraft is equipped for icing conditions. You know not to fly below minimums on approach and fly into power lines well off to the side of the runway, to not descend into a valley at high density altitude. Not to fly into cloud without a working AH.
People make mistakes. These aren't mistakes. These are arrogance
Can't tell you how many times we picked up ice, made an unscheduled landing and on descent didn't break out at the forecast ceiling
It's really cold here in TX right now. Even yesterday, SA international was near dead, didn't see much commercial air travel coming in or leaving and I live in the medical center in SA, near the airport. If it's a bit too cold for domestic & international flights, I couldn't imagine being in a small plane in these horrid icing conditions without de-icing equipment. And remember: de-icing equipment is made for you to ESCAPE an icing situation, not fly through it.
I don’t think it’s too cold for domestic and international flights.
De-icing is made for flight in icing conditions, except for severe icing. It really isn’t made to escape an icing situation. I’m perfectly fine flying a jet in icing conditions.
This plane flew over my house about 10 miles south of the incident site. Thought to myself self I hope the heater is working and ain’t no way I’d be flying in these conditions. Honestly thought it was a radial engine overhead and that’s why it caught my attention. It just sounded off for a twin.
Whoa! That's heavy. I wasn't that close to the crash site as you were. But the helicopter that crashed with Kobe Bryant aboard passed overhead about 150 yds. at 400 ft. altitude @ 150 mph. I remember a helicopter about 9:15 AM that morning that rattled my windows. I thought it was a MediVac because of the sound and speed. The LASD isn't up that early. I didn't know until I pulled up the flight later.
I probably built that 310. I worked on the 310 line for a few years before I left in 1978 to flight instruct full time. Most of my multi-engine training was done in a 310.
No better advise given Juan, currently instrument training in Omaha, where winter weather conditions come into the go no go decision constantly. RIP Dr Smith, prayers be with you
There is a huge misunderstanding of deice capability and requirements. I owned a 1976 C310R that had boots on the outer wing, horizontal stab, and heated props. This plane was NOT FIKI (flight into known ice) yet many believe you could plan and fly through known ice. The 1977 and on are FIKI certified with the addition of inner wing boots, vertical stab boots, and a windshield hot plate. Bottom line Do Not Plan or Fly into known or forecast ice unless your plane if FIKI certified on the type certificate.
😢 rest in peace :( No life should be cut that short.
ty, jb...with the icing conditions, will be interested to hear the safety protocol at hand that may have avoided this.
My brother in law is currently stuck in Nashville because big deiced jets are cancelled to fly north to NY. Actually flights have been cancelled for at least two days out of Nashville . This, I'll get you there" attitude is crashing a lot of planes this year do to pilots (actually not thinking) thinking they are better than nature .
Hindsight, while so often 20-20, it is also all too often sad sight. Heartfelt condolences to all those and their families devastated by this incident.
RIP
Back when I flew for a living, we had a saying; "Hindsight is a lot more like 20-10. Make your foresight 20-10, and you'll live longer." The longer I flew, the more I realized the truth to it. In my final years, at the end of the weather briefing, I'd ask myself what about this flight would the accident investigation board members shake their heads about and ask "What was he thinking?" Based upon the flight data, I'm not at all convinced that this was an icing-induced crash. Hopefully, the board will be able to find the cause.
From what I remember flying the 310. If the windshield is obscured by ice it can very difficult to deal with. Add that to possibly trying to scud run, it’s not a good combination for sure. It will be interesting to see what they figure out on this.
Thank you for making these videos. I know it can't be easy to cover these tragic incidents, but it's a great service to the aviation community. Thank You.
He did his residency at Roanoke, VA, within 50 miles of my home in Dublin, VA. Gary C. Cope, former USAF-CAP pilot. This is a very sad story. :
One of my first jobs in 1980 was flying a 310R nightly from Kansas City to Chicago and return. The airplane had known ice equipment and it got a workout in the winter. The biggest problem was dealing with mixed rime building forward on the tip tanks. I can imagine the accident aircraft was overwhelmed with ice very quick. Condolences to friends and family left behind.
Juan thanks for all you do. I thought the 310R was fiki, it looked like the accident aircraft had deice boots. I know the area got some bad snow that day, I'm guessing it was just too much icing to handle. I've heard stories of people from hot states (ie Texas) not being used to icing and so maybe forgetting pitot heat and so altitude is unreliable and autopilot flies you right into the ground as well.
Have you seen the baron 55 that went down in MA? Looks like another Vmc demo turned uncoordinated stall/spin. Flight school chief instructor and owner and student on board. We really need the FAA to change the multi requirements. As a twin pilot, I see no reason to ever go below Vyse especially as a "demonstration" to see how bad it is. We should be teaching to maintain blue line at all costs, even if it means a descent is all you can maintain. What are your thoughts? I think as someone who advocates for airplane safety this would save a lot of lives if that were changed. We have had 5 or so crashes during Vmc demos in the last year or so
I flew last week in a Challenger650, the weather was terrible everywhere 2 to 400 foot ceilings in fog .seemed like all over the country a half mile or less in many places. Even in Las, Vegas was down to 500 feet and rain never seen that in 22 years.
So tragic. A news article quotes the brother of the pilot stating he was confident in his brother's skill as a pilot as he had over 2 decades of flying experience having gained his license in high school. There was also an 11 year old son who didn't go on the hunting trip because of a math and science competition at school. That young man will live all his life wondering about the if's and why's of what happened.
RIP. I'll never understand such decisions. Anything can wait a day. God Bless those good people.
Sad situation. God bless the family.
First time i ever got into ice was eye opening to say the least. Went from smooth sailing to aluminum icicle very quickly!
Could it be that he failed to make a cold temperature correction for pressure altitude? Seems 800ft/min ROD is a controlled descent - not one influenced by ice on the leading edge. Possibly some ice on the pitot system?
I once flew for a 135 operation. The day they asked me to fly a Cessna 210 with only a hot prop into known icing conditions in the Pacific Northwest was my last day. The first phrase “you’re fine until you’re not” strikes home in this and all icing situations.
This reminds me of my last day. I flew into a village in Alaska and couldn't find our agent. So found some transportation and brought the mail to the PO myself. This all took so long the company initiated S&R on me. Later the station manager told me he was glad they didn't loose me on my last day after all, I was glad too.
I was a 135 cargo nite pilot...never flew when freez.lvl was on the ground...changed many jobs; but still alive @70 yrs
His brother said Smith got his license in high school, had been flying for 20 years, and was an experienced & cautious pilot. His brother suspects the weather cold front as a factor in the crash. Smith left behind a wife and 1 older son.
I've flown in some conditions that even with FIKI capabilities I was worried for the safety of the flight. It always makes me a little nervous regardless.
Weather makes you nervous?
Good, it should. As a GA pilot i believe it is the MOST underappreciated risk factor. “Good enough” ADM leads to poor (almost joke-level) flight planning. Ice should seriously concern us. Things can go south FAST. You are wise to be nervous.
Dam! Tragic. Hearing the kids were onboard sicken me.
It is looking like there have been a couple of recent crashes that indicate these new electronic devices such as the autopilot may require a lot more airtime training before a license is issued, if money is not a problem it looks like one can get their license with only a few more hours than getting a driver's license. The young lady who went down in Tennessee recently was lost while circling the airport she had just taken off from was in clear sight of her craft, a clear sign of no idea of what she was doing, and was trying to get the autopilot to get her out of trouble.
My advice to all instrument rated pilots: Stay out of the clouds in icing, period. No exceptions. Stay at least 3 to 4 thousand feet below the freezing level. If you can't do that, don't fly. There are two things most general aviation pilots need to avoid at all cost: Thunderstorms and icing conditions.
Condolences to his family
What was the air pressure (QNH) at departure and destination? When I flew coast to coast several times in a Mooney back in the day I crossed fronts a couple of times that had a significant change.
So sad. God bless their souls and their surviving family.
There was a Fatal crash this past weekend in Half Moon Bay. Apparently, the plane was a homebuilt Cozy Mark IV. Never heard of it but I'm sure Juan will be on the case.
SAD STORY. USED TO TAKE MY TELESCOPE NOT FROM THAT AREA. PRAYERS FOR THE FAMILY.
This is going to be a difficult one to evaluate. Condolences to the family. Tragic loss. Pilot incapacitation is very possible. Carbon monoxide from the heater? Or, he might have fallen asleep. The ads-b data just doesn’t point to an ice related event. IMO. I fly for a living. At one point in my career I was an sim instructor in the Conquest and Turbo Commanders. One of the sim profiles was a snowy night out of Boeing field. I would give a takeoff clearance that stated previous departing 737 reported severe icing in the climb. It always amazed me at the number of pilots that would takeoff into those conditions. It made for a great training event.
RIP to all. Loss of children is especially hard.
he said " The next day was beautiful, don't fly in icing conditions" as serious as I've ever heard him say anything before.
Even with the best of deicing equipment on your airplane, it's always a bad idea to fly in icing conditions that are all the way to the ground.
Not sure this profile points to ice and could be several other things (bad autopilot altitude select that was AGL and not MSL, incapacitation, distraction, intake blockage, etc.). Hopefully there's some clue in the ATC transcripts and/or wreckage. Very sad story for this family.
Happened to me over mountains imc , the ice built up so fast that within seconds I had 10inches of ice everywhere, I was fortunate that the ice melted before heating the mountains
Sincere condolences to the mother of these children , what a tragedy that could have been avoided
Could it be that the windshield got iced up ?!! That’s a possibility explanation for CFIT to the terrain. RIP
I left a news link to a article about a flight school crash in Massachusetts on one of your live videos
Had this happen in the Sim the other day was flying with only pitot heat didn't think the plane would have issue flying out of TX but a few minutes in everything wad freezing Dallas to San Antonio crazy how real the Sim is now that I know this happend rip
The main issue with autopilot is that it will hold, hold, hold.... And then suddenly quit... And if you cant/don't react appropriately, you're f-d.
Imo the AP should warn pilot when it's reaching its operational limits... Not only keep fixing a bad situation until it can't no more...
Juan, instead of descent planning 5 times the altitude to loose, I find that doesn’t account for headwinds/tailwinds. Instead, try doubling the altitude (in thousands) to plan on when to start down. For example, if you have 7,000 feet to lose, start down when you are 14 minutes from eta, and use 500fpm. If I have a good tailwind (or it’s hot and bumpy down low), I’ll delay it till 7 minutes out, and use 1,000 fpm.
+5/-5 for winds.
Sad. My Dad says don't be in a hurry to get there in bad weather. They'll be searching for your plane wreck on a beautiful sunny day the next day. Icing might have got him, but the weather was really bad here on the 14th. He probably never saw the terrain due to the cloud cover.
What if he simply had an improper altimeter setting and wanted to try and get low enough to 'skud' untill getting the runway lights BUT flew it into the ground on the account of watching an altimeter that was possibly 1,2,300 feet incorrect?
Why ? -- I just don’t understand why they do it ? Am I missing something ?
Icing is serious business. Many aircraft with de-ice boots have crashed due to either inop boots or pilots not using de-ice in icing conditions, or pilots unaware of ice on the tail i.e. tail plane stall. I don’t know how serious of an emphasis CFII instructors are putting in this but the fact that this continues to happen every winter is very concerning.
310R.. "slippery" indeed! But, a blast to fly!
Wow..... very cold there
This happened near where I live. So sad.
I assume one speculation you are alluding to here is he descended below the cloud layer to escape icing conditions.
No VG's either which, in ice, mean nothing, however. It does say something about safety as VG's are inexpensive as compared to the dramatic increase in safety especially on a piston twin. We had them on our Baron and C310P. My point is simply decision making when it comes to safety. Example, did they have shoulder harnesses? Necessary risk vs un-necessary risk. RIP
The kids get me every time.
N71S our 310 had boots, alcohol, RayJay turbos, the only light blue, gold and black trim Riley Rocket. Last seen on a farm in Missouri. A Harvey on steroids.
How tragic! Double-take time with Poolville mention since my great grandparents lived there, and it's where my grandfather was born. Surely the doctor wasn't trying to show off to two young children who might've been fussy after a long flight? It looks like he did everything "by the book" till he flew into terrain, like he had a fatal distraction moment. RIP.
2:36 There is a wise adage, that if you don't see some unexplainable glitch in the data, something is not right. You expect at least one unexplainable thing in a data log. This one had two so it's great.
I have a friend who lost her husband this way. What a sad tragedy. Also a doctor.
My Dad, who had many thousands of hours of many civil aircraft with VFR, IFR, Multi-Engine, Jet, Seaplane, and other ratings, would NEVER have flone in icing conditions without having an aircraft that had full deicing capability. I would not be surprised if this pilot had no IFR cert. My Pop called stuff like this "Darwin With Wings". Cold and ice are absolutely unforgiving.
Hi Juan, if you have time could you please review the triple fatal twin crash in Massachusetts that happened on Sunday, 14th that involved a flight school. Looks like a flat spin to the ground after some turns. Thank you and keep up the great job you do. Safe flying.
So very sad, and very hard to understand. One would think if it were a flight surface icing induced crash that there would be signs of a stall in the ADS-B data.
I was in the hangar last week, fussing around like pilots do when the weather is poor. I had the tower freq on and there was nothing happening... then a 172 asked for clearance for circuits.
We've had Icing conditions from ground level to 15-20K feet in our area pretty consistently for weeks; so tower advised that conditions were VFR but that there was known icing. The pilot acknowledged and then took off, he did 3 circuits and each time tower advised that conditions were VFR but that there was known icing.
On the 4th time the pilot asked for clearance to take off and depart to the North, again tower advised and off went the 172. I just don't get what was so important that the guy was willing to risk known icing conditions in a plane that was not equipped.
Wit( temps of -11C, the ice won’t melt before investigators get to the crash site.
Gosh a young doctor, looks like he barely started working, now its all gone, flying is no joke
Only approach is to 18. I bet he was descending for a visual approach. It is still frozen out here. But I hear there was a post crash fire.
I wonder if they had a static blockage and wrong altimeter reading. I was tempted once to fit 2nd altimeter just open to cabin pressure. Only a minor error, with practice error can be adjusted for, but won't ice up.
The ceiling was at least 1500 agl most of the day. No ground precip on Sunday. I was tracking weather that day So sorry this happened
..I flew into SFO from Dulles. e took off in snow and once we came out of the clouds EVERYTHING from Virginia to The Great Basin was WHITE....EVERYTHING.......
Could the cabin heater have been leaking Carbon Monoxide?
As someone who spent 4000 hours flying a big turbo prop with deice boots… De ice boots are pretty useless. Heated propellers are much more important.
Getting my IRF ticket taught me that I could fly in clouds. Reality taught me that I could not do that very much living in Wisconsin, where from Oct thru March is a lot of risk with not only being safe, but also being legal. Lots of guys would say, "BAAAH!"
Go ahead, fill your bag of experience before your bag of luck runs out.
So difficult to come to terms with an event such as this.
Please remember that even private aircraft accidents are rare and always make the news.
Second the Cessna 310 is a good aircraft.
That being said I witnessed a Cessna 310 fatal crash about 1000 feet from me way back on September 11, 1981.
That crash was almost certainly caused by a medical emergency of the pilot and subsequent inability of the passenger (pilot’s son) to regain control over the aircraft. It slammed into the roof of the Swing auditorium in the Orange Show fairgrounds in San Bernardino California. Obviously it was not any fault of the aircraft, but I don’t think I could talk myself into flying in that model ever.
Damn shame. Wonder what happened. This was a smart man and experienced pilot. It's one thing to risk yourself. No one risks their children. Something happened. Prayers up.