Some points that I can leave for others: 1. Proxmox supports memory deduplication which just like VMware memory compression that you said. 2. Proxmox supports PCI passthrough 3. Proxmox Backup Server is the backup solution for Proxmox products
Pus if you want to run compressed memory you can run zram to create compressed swap in memory and use that swat to provision mote VMs that ram hypervisor node have...
Proxmox works great - had an issue restoring VM's, VM failed to boot after restore. It was the NVidia GPU passthrough that was crashing the VM. If you have this issue first remove the PCI GPU in the hardware setting and reboot. If the VM reboots without the GPU then reboot the whole server proxmox server to fix the issue. No idea why a reboot works - might be memory mapping issues that appear over time when creating and deleting VM's.
I'm preparing to use proxmox at my company and even run all user machines virtualized from supermicro blades to thin clients with gpu passthrough for visual comfort and decent UI rendering.
I love Hyper-V… I mean VMware is amazing BUT very Hyper-V works great! Rolled out Hyper-V in multiple environments and works great! Very efficient. You can do virtual NIC teaming, VM Replication, failover clustering, etc. I was against using Hyper-V but once the vm’s were converted and actually started managing that platform I was very impressed. I use virtual box, VMware, and Hyper-V in my labs.
Hyper-V is pretty epic. However, there's a lot of VMware fans who won't touch it. If costs were off the table I'd prefer VMware. However, Hyper-V is still enterprise grade quality
Hyperv не стабильный, его легко сломать, он подвержен вирусам и взлому (хостовая операционная система), любое обновление от Майкрософт и хостовый виндовс может сломаться. Hyperv все таки не совсем полноценный гипервизор. Esxi работает быстро и даже быстрей чем proxmox, но у него есть большой недостаток - слетает boot в случае выключения питания или жёсткой перезагрузки, у proxmox таких слабых мест нет - proxmox это автомат Калашникова в мире гипервизора
@@МаксСоловьев-щ1ь yeah, I agree on Hyperv and Proxmox. HyperV? Meh. It works because my company senior staff force it on us, well windows just like fast food, easy, expensive, unhealthy, but not reliable in long period. It's a Kalashnikov, Proxmox, really. Even, on i3 gen2 machine with only 2GB of RAM it will serve you. Installation? 10-15 minutes, you're up and running. But, how is esxi is faster? I know it mature, it has RnD from its business etc. The main flaw (for me) is it's 'too highend data center-centries'. I mean it can't function without vcenter (which installed separately), it's a full function on trial but you can't manage with vcenter on it's free version (I read there is Pallas, but idk). Even, I can't schedule a backup VM, without 3rd party application. On the other hand, Proxmox is free, all-in-one solution, it has cluster, schedule backup is super easy, etc, but yeah it's need more polish.😅 I've been wondering to use esxi on my little homelab machine, not a rack full 1000 watts 4U server (yet, they called 'home'lab, it should be home datacenter), but so far I can't find the real answer. Oh, last, there is xcp-ng. Because Lawrence Systems glorified it so much (because they sell/offer a service on their company), without fair comparison with others hypervisor, I judge it unworthy to try. Although, maybe it has some potential than esxi.
HyperV? Very efficient? How do you do the backup then? You use 3rd party apps to do that, right? It works? Yeah, of course. All hypervisor also works. You just don't want to live without GUI, windows explorer. Windows admin center, it's far from perfect. It works? Yeah, like KFC, you eat it, not hungry anymore, tomorrow you eat it again, the more you know it's unhealthiness. I want to toss away the rack full of HyperV on our DC😂
Would you recommend deploying proxmox in business environment, multiple hyper-v servers, mainly Windows Environments and Application in MSSQL...? Or would you recommend sticking to Hyper-V?
49:00 I think you CAN run a lot of VMs on a crappy drive -- just gotta turn on SIOC on vsphere and nothing will timeout. Not saying it'll be great, but it'll run ok.
If you just want to set up a home lab for the purpose of learning tools (Security Onion, Suricata, Splunk, etc), which environment would be best. Not that I don't want to learn about these three hypervisors, but it isn't the goal.
I think the answer to this for me would be VMware Workstation or Oracle Virtualbox. You don't need a hypervisor to just learn the tools. I prefer a hypervisor for a semi/permanent lab.
@@TellaroCyberResilience I don't know why only VMware Workstation or Oracle Virtualbox is possible to run on GNU Linux desktop or laptop... There is one very good solution for Linux: Virtual Machine Manager(VMM). For VMware workstation -you need to pay for all extra options, and with update kernel is possible break vmware module. Virtualbox -you need to add repository and is not faster. For my opinion VMM is faster then other options, and it is build for all linux distro, and hard to break.
@@levskilevov4888 VMM does the trick. I only mentioned VirtualBox and VMware Workstation as they are more commonly used. There are many other variations that work just fine such as VMM. Thanks for referencing it.
Another point I don't think you mentioned - if you already have Windows 10/11 Professional on your normal workstation, you can enable the Hyper-V role which turns the OS into a virtual machine running on Hyper-V and you get a true type 1 hypervisor to play with. I run vSphere on my main 24/7 lab servers (old enterprise hardware) but when I need a really fast VM for whatever temporary purpose I spin it up on Hyper-V on my Ryzen and it's blazing fast!
This is a valid point for Hyper-V. Now-a-days I end up playing with a dedicated hypervisor (proxmox in my case), but then I run Hyper-V on Windows 11 with VMWare Workstation because they can mix.
How would proxmox compares with the others with regards to 3rd party compatibility? Like for example, on the backup side; you would fall short on Enterprise grade backup solution(host based backup) like Veeam etc...it does have support for Acronis tho & its own Proxmox backup server but you will fall short in terms of granullar level/ object level restore. With regards cloud orchestration, have you tried implementing cloudstack integration with Proxmox? Cloudstack does support bare kvm but would it work with Proxmox?
It would definitely lack in 3rd party compatibility. The goal in this video though is to replicate real world experience without having to purchase the real thing. Proxmox had the ability to do backups and other things. Maybe not all. If you are wanting to test with enterprise grade backups, you would be able to replicate vm or datastore backups with proxmox backups instead of Veeam. If you are testing real commercial integrations, then you'd like have to use vsphere
Absurd video !!! I have a question, Hyper-V docs describe that video card GPU power processor automatically is used by VM (no need to configure anything), does that also work like that in proxmox? or video card GPU can only be used by Pass Through ?
They all are comparable. Each has advanced settings where you can customize the hosts as well as the vms to tweak settings. I've done quite a bit of this trying to measure bare metal installs vs various hypervisors for high IO/cpu/ memory workloads. Tweaking matters a lot for heavy workload but not so much for routine vms. Those are roughly the same.
Hyper-V is easy to setup as long as you are using Windows, it's out-of-box to setup a VM in 5 minutes. Proxmox is a super car in terms of its performance. It only consumes 1-2% of your hardware resource. It's free. vSphere is mainly for enterprise users. It contains vSAN or other large-scale devices support. It's expensive.
Hi @H & A Security Solutions, @Justin I would like to install windows 10, and some windows server editions for my home lab. can you share the resources for getting them cheap online?
You can get free 180 day trials directly from Microsoft here: www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/trial Also, you can try using free tier cloud machines from Azure or AWS. If you are wanting to keep you lab long term you may look at a subscription for lab use with this: www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/visual-studio-professional-2019/dg7gmgf0f6q1?cid=msft_web_collection
Amazon doesn't run vsphere or hyper-v and they are as big as an enterprise gets considering half the known world works off their hosts....No one would shoot you for using any of those 3 but "enterprise" people don't often use those tools only, they are midgrade when you step to the next level as enterprises are going to build their own version of virtualization.
Technically yes. But if you do down to that level of technicality, many products or cloud hypervisors are kvm. The same would be true for container management platforms.
haha legos?? didn't we do this with linux distributions, windows versions, bbs software, irc/mirc scripts basically everything? this is literally how i learned to "be a computer" :)
Some points that I can leave for others:
1. Proxmox supports memory deduplication which just like VMware memory compression that you said.
2. Proxmox supports PCI passthrough
3. Proxmox Backup Server is the backup solution for Proxmox products
Pus if you want to run compressed memory you can run zram to create compressed swap in memory and use that swat to provision mote VMs that ram hypervisor node have...
Thanks for sharing!
Proxmox works great - had an issue restoring VM's, VM failed to boot after restore. It was the NVidia GPU passthrough that was crashing the VM. If you have this issue first remove the PCI GPU in the hardware setting and reboot.
If the VM reboots without the GPU then reboot the whole server proxmox server to fix the issue.
No idea why a reboot works - might be memory mapping issues that appear over time when creating and deleting VM's.
I'm preparing to use proxmox at my company and even run all user machines virtualized from supermicro blades to thin clients with gpu passthrough for visual comfort and decent UI rendering.
That's awesome. I wish you best of luck
I love Hyper-V… I mean VMware is amazing BUT very Hyper-V works great! Rolled out Hyper-V in multiple environments and works great! Very efficient. You can do virtual NIC teaming, VM Replication, failover clustering, etc. I was against using Hyper-V but once the vm’s were converted and actually started managing that platform I was very impressed. I use virtual box, VMware, and Hyper-V in my labs.
Hyper-V is pretty epic. However, there's a lot of VMware fans who won't touch it. If costs were off the table I'd prefer VMware. However, Hyper-V is still enterprise grade quality
Hyperv не стабильный, его легко сломать, он подвержен вирусам и взлому (хостовая операционная система), любое обновление от Майкрософт и хостовый виндовс может сломаться.
Hyperv все таки не совсем полноценный гипервизор.
Esxi работает быстро и даже быстрей чем proxmox, но у него есть большой недостаток - слетает boot в случае выключения питания или жёсткой перезагрузки, у proxmox таких слабых мест нет - proxmox это автомат Калашникова в мире гипервизора
@@МаксСоловьев-щ1ь yeah, I agree on Hyperv and Proxmox.
HyperV? Meh. It works because my company senior staff force it on us, well windows just like fast food, easy, expensive, unhealthy, but not reliable in long period.
It's a Kalashnikov, Proxmox, really. Even, on i3 gen2 machine with only 2GB of RAM it will serve you. Installation? 10-15 minutes, you're up and running.
But, how is esxi is faster? I know it mature, it has RnD from its business etc. The main flaw (for me) is it's 'too highend data center-centries'. I mean it can't function without vcenter (which installed separately), it's a full function on trial but you can't manage with vcenter on it's free version (I read there is Pallas, but idk). Even, I can't schedule a backup VM, without 3rd party application.
On the other hand, Proxmox is free, all-in-one solution, it has cluster, schedule backup is super easy, etc, but yeah it's need more polish.😅
I've been wondering to use esxi on my little homelab machine, not a rack full 1000 watts 4U server (yet, they called 'home'lab, it should be home datacenter), but so far I can't find the real answer.
Oh, last, there is xcp-ng. Because Lawrence Systems glorified it so much (because they sell/offer a service on their company), without fair comparison with others hypervisor, I judge it unworthy to try. Although, maybe it has some potential than esxi.
HyperV? Very efficient?
How do you do the backup then?
You use 3rd party apps to do that, right?
It works? Yeah, of course. All hypervisor also works. You just don't want to live without GUI, windows explorer. Windows admin center, it's far from perfect.
It works? Yeah, like KFC, you eat it, not hungry anymore, tomorrow you eat it again, the more you know it's unhealthiness. I want to toss away the rack full of HyperV on our DC😂
Until you need gpu passthrough.
Would you recommend deploying proxmox in business environment, multiple hyper-v servers, mainly Windows Environments and Application in MSSQL...? Or would you recommend sticking to Hyper-V?
You are absolutely amazing Justin!!!! Thank you for this.
My pleasure!!
What is the most reliable hypervisor for a production environment? What server specs do you recommend for 8-10 virtual machines running windows 10?
Comparable vm on azure is d2s v3.
49:00 I think you CAN run a lot of VMs on a crappy drive -- just gotta turn on SIOC on vsphere and nothing will timeout. Not saying it'll be great, but it'll run ok.
very interesting talk, thanks a lot, it helped me a lot in choosing a replacment for esxi, went for proxmox! THANKS!
If you just want to set up a home lab for the purpose of learning tools (Security Onion, Suricata, Splunk, etc), which environment would be best. Not that I don't want to learn about these three hypervisors, but it isn't the goal.
I think the answer to this for me would be VMware Workstation or Oracle Virtualbox. You don't need a hypervisor to just learn the tools. I prefer a hypervisor for a semi/permanent lab.
@@TellaroCyberResilience But I also want to simulate red and blue activities and logging and use Kali and Metasploitable, etc.
@@TellaroCyberResilience I don't know why only VMware Workstation or Oracle Virtualbox is possible to run on GNU Linux desktop or laptop... There is one very good solution for Linux: Virtual Machine Manager(VMM). For VMware workstation -you need to pay for all extra options, and with update kernel is possible break vmware module.
Virtualbox -you need to add repository and is not faster. For my opinion VMM is faster then other options, and it is build for all linux distro, and hard to break.
@@ordahackney7131 Late reply on this but you can simulate red/blue activities with any virtual software or hypervisor. All will work
@@levskilevov4888 VMM does the trick. I only mentioned VirtualBox and VMware Workstation as they are more commonly used. There are many other variations that work just fine such as VMM. Thanks for referencing it.
looks like i'm going for proxmos.. i do hope proxmos becomes more popular in enterprise
Another point I don't think you mentioned - if you already have Windows 10/11 Professional on your normal workstation, you can enable the Hyper-V role which turns the OS into a virtual machine running on Hyper-V and you get a true type 1 hypervisor to play with.
I run vSphere on my main 24/7 lab servers (old enterprise hardware) but when I need a really fast VM for whatever temporary purpose I spin it up on Hyper-V on my Ryzen and it's blazing fast!
This is a valid point for Hyper-V. Now-a-days I end up playing with a dedicated hypervisor (proxmox in my case), but then I run Hyper-V on Windows 11 with VMWare Workstation because they can mix.
Fantastic Video. Thank you!
Thank you
How would proxmox compares with the others with regards to 3rd party compatibility?
Like for example, on the backup side; you would fall short on Enterprise grade backup solution(host based backup) like Veeam etc...it does have support for Acronis tho & its own Proxmox backup server but you will fall short in terms of granullar level/ object level restore.
With regards cloud orchestration, have you tried implementing cloudstack integration with Proxmox? Cloudstack does support bare kvm but would it work with Proxmox?
It would definitely lack in 3rd party compatibility. The goal in this video though is to replicate real world experience without having to purchase the real thing. Proxmox had the ability to do backups and other things. Maybe not all. If you are wanting to test with enterprise grade backups, you would be able to replicate vm or datastore backups with proxmox backups instead of Veeam. If you are testing real commercial integrations, then you'd like have to use vsphere
Absurd video !!! I have a question, Hyper-V docs describe that video card GPU power processor automatically is used by VM (no need to configure anything), does that also work like that in proxmox? or video card GPU can only be used by Pass Through ?
Pass through mode works with Hyper-V, Proxmox, and Vsphere. Doing so allows a VM full PCI access for the device. It's pretty cool
Have you looked at xcp-ng as a supervisor cluster
Yes. There are more and more own source hypervisor solutions coming out. I chose proxmox based on public popularity at the time
Any idea which of the three results in better vm performance?
They all are comparable. Each has advanced settings where you can customize the hosts as well as the vms to tweak settings. I've done quite a bit of this trying to measure bare metal installs vs various hypervisors for high IO/cpu/ memory workloads. Tweaking matters a lot for heavy workload but not so much for routine vms. Those are roughly the same.
When are New videos coming out? Expecting more good stuff..
Ongoing. I'm trying to do one a week
Hyper-V is easy to setup as long as you are using Windows, it's out-of-box to setup a VM in 5 minutes. Proxmox is a super car in terms of its performance. It only consumes 1-2% of your hardware resource. It's free. vSphere is mainly for enterprise users. It contains vSAN or other large-scale devices support. It's expensive.
I agree with your comments
1-2% i hope your referring to people with 8 core 16gb ram.. anyway i might go with proxmos
Hi @H & A Security Solutions, @Justin
I would like to install windows 10, and some windows server editions for my home lab. can you share the resources for getting them cheap online?
You can get free 180 day trials directly from Microsoft here: www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/trial
Also, you can try using free tier cloud machines from Azure or AWS. If you are wanting to keep you lab long term you may look at a subscription for lab use with this: www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/visual-studio-professional-2019/dg7gmgf0f6q1?cid=msft_web_collection
No love for Citrix XenServer Free?
good one Justin
Thank you
So we gonna just ignore XCP-NG?
There's many hypervisors out there. I had no intent to ignore others.
Oh wow I heard the laugh and I was lookin' for Tom Cruise.
Haha. Can't say I've heard that one before
Proxmox is free?
Yes it is
Amazon doesn't run vsphere or hyper-v and they are as big as an enterprise gets considering half the known world works off their hosts....No one would shoot you for using any of those 3 but "enterprise" people don't often use those tools only, they are midgrade when you step to the next level as enterprises are going to build their own version of virtualization.
I agree with this statement. Though the goal of this video is for individuals to get hypervisor lab experience.
isnt pxomox just kvm+stuff+containers+web interface? Its not a hypervisor?
Apparently with kvm in the kernel, you have yourself a type 1 hypervisor
@@deViant14 so kvm/kernel is the hypervior not proxmox
Technically yes. But if you do down to that level of technicality, many products or cloud hypervisors are kvm. The same would be true for container management platforms.
i like the points of dumbing down your resume for dumb employers
I think is proxmox the best hv!
haha legos?? didn't we do this with linux distributions, windows versions, bbs software, irc/mirc scripts basically everything? this is literally how i learned to "be a computer" :)
Man, i feel so Lucky to have an IBM with 72 threads. And 768gigs of ram. With 12Tb SAS drives.
Just dont have much time to play with it
Woah ! Impressive. Is that from some kind of decommissioning?
With that hardware maybe you need to find more time to play with it :)
Babbling. 👎