It breaks the signalling rule of absolute block - one train allowed in a section at a time. One foggy day it was agreed that if visibility was poor at the point of slip, the slip would not take place and the train would stop in the station for the slip coach to be detached. But the guard thought the visibility was OK and slipped the coach. The train, not knowing the coach had slipped, stopped in the station. And in the poor visibilty the slip coach ran into the back of it.
Not completely true . We coupled on to a train and entered an absolute block and then cut away at speed to save on authoriies , le voila suddenly 2 trains arriving at different times in the block . Also pushing a freight in the fog and cutting away is pretty similar to slip coach , in the fog done it . Freight trains can do that without breaking the same rules altho not always endorsed but sometimes required . Stealing a switch paa fri bahn is another way to end up with 2 trains in an absolute block on the continent bla .
They did this at Westbury when I lived there as a young boy. The express from Paddington to the West country would drop the slip several miles before the station and take the loop line round the station to the West while the slip coach was switched to the line into the station. Our house was on the hill above the town and we had a good view of it.
I've learned something today, thanks. This is from an article I wrote a few years ago, unaware of slip coaches: "... in 1894 Prestwick had 30 trains a day in each direction between Ayr and Glasgow. Prosperous Glaswegian business commuters liked the fast 4:15 pm from the city which, even at high speed, ‘with an ingenious device’ uncoupled its rear portion at Irvine, without stopping (presumably to slowly come to a halt with the aid of a brake car)." Irvine is 9.5 miles from Prestwick!
A forgotten railway story. I remember, whilst staying at my Aunt's house in 1959, in Slough, a single coach following an express, after it had passed at speed. The coach slowed into a bay platform, and a few people alighted. A train spotting episode in life long ago. I was also amazed to count eighty loaded coal wagons being carefully, slowly, braked, arriving from Wales, on the slow line, and when stopped, reversed into a siding on the south side of the station.
While not slip coaches, in Canada, trains were sometimes split at a station, with the two sections going to different destinations. They would be combined in the opposite direction. I can think of two trains where this happened every day. One was the old Canadian National Super Continental. Trains from Montreal and Toronto would join in Capreol Ontario, while heading west to Vancouver and the eastbound trains would separate in Capreol, with the two sections heading to Toronto and Montreal. Another, a CN/Ontario Northland train, would split at Porquis Junction with the sections going to Timmins and Kapuskasing. I was on both trains many times. BTW, many years ago I worked for CN and was based in Capreol for a couple of years. Back in those days I frequently rode trains, both passenger and freight.
This happens to this day in Scotland, with trains departing Glasgow and Edinburgh for places up North. They’re divided with passengers told to ensure they’re in the right half of the train for their destination. It’s the benefit of running multiple DMUs/EMUs together, as opposed to loco hauled carriages.
The Empire Builder in the USA still does this in Spokane, with one section going to Portland in Oregon, and the other to Seattle in Washington state. Also, confusingly, set-out coaches are called slip coaches in India (and probably Pakistan), although I’m not sure how common these services are there now.
Rauirigh MacVeigh did an excellent film about this some four years ago. The thing about TH-cam is that if you look at one film about a topic, a lot of others on the same topic appear in your playlist. Train of Thought also did this, about three years ago - with the same thumbnail picture!
While an interesting subject, I do have to point out that Brecon is pronounced (roughly) "Breh-kun", not "Brie-kon". It's a town in Wales, not a seminar for French cheese enthusiasts. (Well, it's the English name of a town in Wales. In Welsh it'd be Aberhonddu, pronunced roughly Abba-hon-thee).
Interesting video but rather spoilt by some very strange pronunciations as well as Bree-Kon. Zenith, pronounced as zeeenith with a long 'e' and worst of all, lever being spoken as 'levva'.
All the while the car transport low loader wagons were on the Cornish London services the rear most wagons were uncoupled at the intermediate stations from Exeter onwards and shunted off to an unloading yard where the drivers picked up their cars if loaded in the correct order and wagon at Paddington. One year my fathers car and our luggage ended up at Plymouth instead of Exeter where we alighted. Could have been worse and Penzance. The reverse happened on the up services.
What about the slingshot coaches that overshot the platform and caught on to the back of a faster moving locomotive, ever unsure of their final destination it made for a wild and crazy trip daddy-o.
A train will have to stop to pick it up, which is one of the reasons this technology was abandoned in passenger trains. A related development (a remote controlled pin puller) called Helper Link was in use in the late 1990s onwards in Montana, USA, although I don’t know if they bother any more.
Slip coaches were an impressive innovation for their time, but do you think they were actually worth the effort? With all the extra staffing, logistics, and risks involved, it seems like they were more trouble than they were worth. Wouldn't it have been simpler to schedule more frequent local trains instead?
A very concise, informative and interesting video - thank you. I have a geeky question though - is the voiceover AI generated? It sounds very natural but the couple of mispronunciations suggest AI.
One thing I never realised. Look at the footage of the Guard on the platform at Paddington and you'll see that he locks the door of the slip coach after the last passenger gets in. So passengers were generally locked in to the coach to stop them jumping out at the last minute or misbehaving in some way? Not something I'd thought of. Doesn't appeal for some reason.
There were some gangway-equipped slip coaches, in those cases the crew would check that all passengers had returned from the restaurant car before commencing the slipping operation.
Believe it or not, the basic idea is good. Even in 1960/whatever the "tech" wasn't up to the task. A "modern" system might have the "drop coach" be a motor coach with "robot" control and a conductor backup. The train likely would still slow down a bit but it is stopping that really slows down the schedule. At each station, the train would lose a motor coach and a conductor and gain a motor coach and a conductor. The motor coaches would only go to the next stop but the conductors could be switched in the trains and provide crew changes for the rest of the train. Crew changes also slow down the schedule. It could also work on fast freights but with the motor coach accelerating from the front of a slowed down fast freight and the train being joined at the front with another motor coach. Slowing down for a transfer adds time to the schedule but nothing compared to stopping the train.
Dropping coaches off meant that the locomotive would not have to haul the complete train over some stiff sections such as the Devon Banks, avoiding the necessity of double heading
It actually cost a great deal to stop and start a steam train due to their being no braking regeneration. Stopping at stations with few passengers was simply uneconomic. One answer was local trains that met the express, but that still required an expensive engine driver, fireman and locomotive. Electric trains have regeneration and the energy cost of stopping and starting is much lower, but still expensive.
There must have been many advantages best known to the railway company. They wouldn't have continued with it for all those years if the trial had been a failure.
I'm not quite following all of this. First, there's no gradual rise at Bicester for the slip coach to slow down (well, maybe a tiny incline). Secondly, why does the train stop and pick up the slip coach again? Maybe for practical purposes, but it's not really part of the story is it? The whole idea was to avoid the main train having to slow down too much.
The narration is confusing. The slip was added to the front of the train already in the station. This then followed the non-stop express. Obviously BR (W) had refined the scheduling to avoid having to have a spare loco at Bicester to shunt the slip into a siding after unloading the passengers. The return working could be in a passenger or goods train.
The slip coach has its own brake. I was confused too but it seems slip coach services had two guards and one stayed with the coach in order to activate the slip mechanism and then stop at the right point in the station
@@MarkHewitt1978 Maybe not to you Mark.. but there are others agreeing with my comment re the narration... and other comments directly accusing this of being AI.
@DavidMorris-y1b @DavidMorris-y1b 2 days ago It's pronounced Brekkun not Breecon 6 Reply 2 replies @Clivestravelandtrains 1 day ago There were other mis-pronunciations too, such as zenith and lever. 5 Reply @Planestrains-d5e 1 day ago That’s an AI reader for ya. 4
@@ClivestravelandtrainsI think that AI making a pronounciation error DOES matter very much. To dismiss error tendencies is dangerous if the world is going to be run by AI as the pundits predict. For example, AI medical diagnoses should not be subject to any errors.
@@RobertSweet-nw4tm Interesting point - I wondered at first whether it was simply a different accent. Like, I say glass whereas southerners would say "glarse". New Zealanders call a peg a pig.
It breaks the signalling rule of absolute block - one train allowed in a section at a time. One foggy day it was agreed that if visibility was poor at the point of slip, the slip would not take place and the train would stop in the station for the slip coach to be detached. But the guard thought the visibility was OK and slipped the coach. The train, not knowing the coach had slipped, stopped in the station. And in the poor visibilty the slip coach ran into the back of it.
Not completely true . We coupled on to a train and entered an absolute block and then cut away at speed to save on authoriies , le voila suddenly 2 trains arriving at different times in the block . Also pushing a freight in the fog and cutting away is pretty similar to slip coach , in the fog done it . Freight trains can do that without breaking the same rules altho not always endorsed but sometimes required . Stealing a switch paa fri bahn is another way to end up with 2 trains in an absolute block on the continent bla .
They did this at Westbury when I lived there as a young boy. The express from Paddington to the West country would drop the slip several miles before the station and take the loop line round the station to the West while the slip coach was switched to the line into the station. Our house was on the hill above the town and we had a good view of it.
I'd never heard of "Slip-Coaches" - Thanks for posting :)
I've learned something today, thanks. This is from an article I wrote a few years ago, unaware of slip coaches: "... in 1894 Prestwick had 30 trains a day in each direction between Ayr and Glasgow. Prosperous Glaswegian business commuters liked the fast 4:15 pm from the city which, even at high speed, ‘with an ingenious device’ uncoupled its rear portion at Irvine, without stopping (presumably to slowly come to a halt with the aid of a brake car)." Irvine is 9.5 miles from Prestwick!
A forgotten railway story. I remember, whilst staying at my Aunt's house in 1959, in Slough, a single coach following an express, after it had passed at speed. The coach slowed into a bay platform, and a few people alighted. A train spotting episode in life long ago. I was also amazed to count eighty loaded coal wagons being carefully, slowly, braked, arriving from Wales, on the slow line, and when stopped, reversed into a siding on the south side of the station.
Interesting video, many thanks for posting ....
Fascinating and very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
I first learned about the slip coaches in Thomas the Tank engine. As a marvel of the great western railway
Yes! I was thinking about the same thing!
Very interesting video. Thanks a lot. I am now going to attempt to learn which routes used slip coaches.
Thank you for this interesting video, the spirit of those times sadly long gone
Really interesting - thank you!
While not slip coaches, in Canada, trains were sometimes split at a station, with the two sections going to different destinations. They would be combined in the opposite direction. I can think of two trains where this happened every day. One was the old Canadian National Super Continental. Trains from Montreal and Toronto would join in Capreol Ontario, while heading west to Vancouver and the eastbound trains would separate in Capreol, with the two sections heading to Toronto and Montreal. Another, a CN/Ontario Northland train, would split at Porquis Junction with the sections going to Timmins and Kapuskasing. I was on both trains many times.
BTW, many years ago I worked for CN and was based in Capreol for a couple of years. Back in those days I frequently rode trains, both passenger and freight.
This is also being practiced on InterCity and Express services in Denmark, using DMU and EMU stock. All at the touch of a button...
Still happens in the UK, too. Crianlarich is the place that comes to mind.
This happens to this day in Scotland, with trains departing Glasgow and Edinburgh for places up North. They’re divided with passengers told to ensure they’re in the right half of the train for their destination. It’s the benefit of running multiple DMUs/EMUs together, as opposed to loco hauled carriages.
The Empire Builder in the USA still does this in Spokane, with one section going to Portland in Oregon, and the other to Seattle in Washington state. Also, confusingly, set-out coaches are called slip coaches in India (and probably Pakistan), although I’m not sure how common these services are there now.
Rauirigh MacVeigh did an excellent film about this some four years ago. The thing about TH-cam is that if you look at one film about a topic, a lot of others on the same topic appear in your playlist. Train of Thought also did this, about three years ago - with the same thumbnail picture!
While an interesting subject, I do have to point out that Brecon is pronounced (roughly) "Breh-kun", not "Brie-kon". It's a town in Wales, not a seminar for French cheese enthusiasts.
(Well, it's the English name of a town in Wales. In Welsh it'd be Aberhonddu, pronunced roughly Abba-hon-thee).
I got the impression that the voice on this video was a fake, trained on an English voice, but with some American pronunciation rules.
Of course, Welsh names are always unpronounceable. 🙂
Interesting video but rather spoilt by some very strange pronunciations as well as Bree-Kon. Zenith, pronounced as zeeenith with a long 'e' and worst of all, lever being spoken as 'levva'.
interesting stuff - never knew this was a thing, thanks for creating the video.
All the while the car transport low loader wagons were on the Cornish London services the rear most wagons were uncoupled at the intermediate stations from Exeter onwards and shunted off to an unloading yard where the drivers picked up their cars if loaded in the correct order and wagon at Paddington. One year my fathers car and our luggage ended up at Plymouth instead of Exeter where we alighted. Could have been worse and Penzance. The reverse happened on the up services.
What about the slingshot coaches that overshot the platform and caught on to the back of a faster moving locomotive, ever unsure of their final destination it made for a wild and crazy trip daddy-o.
Crazy that Britain was still using steam locomotives in the 60s, when the US figured out electronic controls in diesel locomotives.
Interesting thanks never knew about these
Whilst not a slip coach, Eyemouth on the NBR used gravity shunting to get the coach back into the platform. No run round loop!
How do you collet the cars on the return?
A train will have to stop to pick it up, which is one of the reasons this technology was abandoned in passenger trains. A related development (a remote controlled pin puller) called Helper Link was in use in the late 1990s onwards in Montana, USA, although I don’t know if they bother any more.
Very interesting! Wonder if this has been attempted in model railroading.
Yes, but the coach doesn't travel far once it's detached.
It has indeed, there are even several companies offering DCC uncoupling solutions using electric actuators.
Slip coaches were an impressive innovation for their time, but do you think they were actually worth the effort? With all the extra staffing, logistics, and risks involved, it seems like they were more trouble than they were worth. Wouldn't it have been simpler to schedule more frequent local trains instead?
Interesting and why don’t you make a video on Vaccume breaks a very British way of stopping a train
A very concise, informative and interesting video - thank you. I have a geeky question though - is the voiceover AI generated? It sounds very natural but the couple of mispronunciations suggest AI.
One thing I never realised. Look at the footage of the Guard on the platform at Paddington and you'll see that he locks the door of the slip coach after the last passenger gets in. So passengers were generally locked in to the coach to stop them jumping out at the last minute or misbehaving in some way? Not something I'd thought of. Doesn't appeal for some reason.
We are locked inside modern trains, by the way, with doors controlled by a member of traincrew.
@@Clivestravelandtrains
There are no windows to jump out of. Now, all of the carriages are air conditioned.
@@ClivestravelandtrainsBut today's trains have emergency brakes accessible throughout the train, as well as emergency door releases on each door.
There were some gangway-equipped slip coaches, in those cases the crew would check that all passengers had returned from the restaurant car before commencing the slipping operation.
Anyone know of a preserved slip coach?
I have read that there is a GWR example called ‘Mevy’ in St. Germans, Cornwall, England (west of Plymouth and Saltash).
@ Many thanks! I used to live in Plymouth so I know the southwest very well.
Believe it or not, the basic idea is good. Even in 1960/whatever the "tech" wasn't up to the task. A "modern" system might have the "drop coach" be a motor coach with "robot" control and a conductor backup. The train likely would still slow down a bit but it is stopping that really slows down the schedule. At each station, the train would lose a motor coach and a conductor and gain a motor coach and a conductor. The motor coaches would only go to the next stop but the conductors could be switched in the trains and provide crew changes for the rest of the train. Crew changes also slow down the schedule.
It could also work on fast freights but with the motor coach accelerating from the front of a slowed down fast freight and the train being joined at the front with another motor coach. Slowing down for a transfer adds time to the schedule but nothing compared to stopping the train.
From an operational point of view ?? What advantage was there?
Dropping coaches off meant that the locomotive would not have to haul the complete train over some stiff sections such as the Devon Banks, avoiding the necessity of double heading
It meant the train could serve Bicester without actually stopping there, which adds to the overall journey time.
@@Clivestravelandtrains but only in terms of set down of course. Which if it is London commuters may work.
It actually cost a great deal to stop and start a steam train due to their being no braking regeneration. Stopping at stations with few passengers was simply uneconomic. One answer was local trains that met the express, but that still required an expensive engine driver, fireman and locomotive.
Electric trains have regeneration and the energy cost of stopping and starting is much lower, but still expensive.
There must have been many advantages best known to the railway company. They wouldn't have continued with it for all those years if the trial had been a failure.
Wot a great service . I suppose I can see why it isant done nowadays . BUT was there ever any accidents ? If not then ......
It's pronounced Brekkun not Breecon
There were other mis-pronunciations too, such as zenith and lever.
That’s an AI reader for ya.
You mean brakes of slip coach were not connected to 🚂 ?
Bye ses ter,or Bister, For Bicester
I'm not quite following all of this. First, there's no gradual rise at Bicester for the slip coach to slow down (well, maybe a tiny incline). Secondly, why does the train stop and pick up the slip coach again? Maybe for practical purposes, but it's not really part of the story is it? The whole idea was to avoid the main train having to slow down too much.
The narration is confusing. The slip was added to the front of the train already in the station. This then followed the non-stop express. Obviously BR (W) had refined the scheduling to avoid having to have a spare loco at Bicester to shunt the slip into a siding after unloading the passengers. The return working could be in a passenger or goods train.
The express released the slip coach without stopping. The loco from the local train then shunted the slip onto the local train.
The slip coach has its own brake. I was confused too but it seems slip coach services had two guards and one stayed with the coach in order to activate the slip mechanism and then stop at the right point in the station
Sorry but the AI narration is irritating.
There are billions of humans that speak English...use a human to read the script please.
Didn't soubd like AI to me.
@@MarkHewitt1978
Maybe not to you Mark..
but there are others agreeing with my comment re the narration...
and other comments directly accusing this of being AI.
@DavidMorris-y1b
@DavidMorris-y1b
2 days ago
It's pronounced Brekkun not Breecon
6
Reply
2 replies
@Clivestravelandtrains
1 day ago
There were other mis-pronunciations too, such as zenith and lever.
5
Reply
@Planestrains-d5e
1 day ago
That’s an AI reader for ya.
4
@@MarkHewitt1978 Soubd? AI catches cold?
Power chuffers
Highly likely!
Slip coaches broke the rules by allowing two trains on one section at the same time.
CARS ?????????
Video fine. Your pronunciation of certain words illiterate. Pip Pip.
It’s Brecon not Braycon
I’m 99% it’s AI doing the voice.
@@barrivia agree, but it doesn't entirely matter.
@@ClivestravelandtrainsI think that AI making a pronounciation error DOES matter very much. To dismiss error tendencies is dangerous if the world is going to be run by AI as the pundits predict. For example, AI medical diagnoses should not be subject to any errors.
@@RobertSweet-nw4tm Interesting point - I wondered at first whether it was simply a different accent. Like, I say glass whereas southerners would say "glarse". New Zealanders call a peg a pig.