There are absolutely no sourdough experiments on youtube including regular all purpose, supermarket 10% protein wheat flour. Except for now!!! Much thanks!!! Everyone, in their recipes, tend to use the highest quality bread flour automatically. And even when they do use so called all purpose, they are still using brands that have at least 11.7% like KAF. This experiment needed to be done. It dispels the myth that all purpose low protein flour can never be used for sourdough bread. You proved that, indeed, it can be done. One just has to use the correct technique. Kudos!!!
I know! People are making sourdough so freaking elite, but not everyone has access to the organic highend stuff. Or they want to save money. And if starters were all we had for thousands of years before baker's yeast, why wouldn't it work with AP flour? My starter is all AP.
Its almost as if you didnt need this experiment at all, right? Ive been baking sourdough bread with AP, or 550 in Europe, for years now, with no problems whatsoever. And Ill continue to do so. Sourdough bread is older than high gluten flour by a few thousands of years. You dont need a fancy technique or anything, just make it as you would with that kryptonite flour that is only available in USA. Wether it turns out the same or not I wouldn't really know, what I know is that it turns out extremely delicious and looking like any bread Ive seen online. Technique and ones ability to make a decent loaf is at least 3x more important than the type of white flour you use.
@@Qlicky The thing I wonder is how different AP is from what was/is produced simply by milling the grain. The flours I get all list a few more ingredients (added nutrients, mostly, probably).
Don't mind me, just making personal notes for AP flour bread bc i'm running low on flours. 1:55 Formulation 2:32 Autolyse (1 hr) 3:26 Starter (30 mins) Then Bulk Fermentation 4:28 Second stretch and fold 5:58 3rd stretch, Window pane test, ferment at 30°C. Let rise for +50% volume 12:42 Pre-shape and ball, Bench Rest, and Final Shape 16:47 Score and Bake at 260 ° C 17:44 Final Product
I've been watching Bob's red mill's website, and they have been out of stock of everything for weeks. Luckily, my local Bi-Mart store was still stocked with Bob's AP and whole wheat, probably because their headquarters are both in Oregon. Just got a few more cases this weekend!
If I’ve learned anything from watching these experiments you run, it’s that with enough skill any thing makes delicious bread. Cheap flour, expensive flour, coil folds, one hand folds, autolyse before or after salt... no matter what your bread is amazing.
You are the MAN! Every time I have a question and search TH-cam, you have done an experiment on it. From the bread proofing box, to the cast iron bakers, and beyond. Thanks so much! Your videos are well produced, leaving no questions to your processes and my sourdough obsession results continue to improve. Incredibly helpful - just, . . wow.
Finally! I always say if you have flour, water salt and yeast/sourdough you can make bread/pizza. People think by using the most expensive high tech flour, they will produce good bread. I had so many conversations where people told me to try Manitoba flour and what not because it will make my pizza even greater but I get great results even with standard flour. Sure, there are some differences in hydration but that's the part where you need skill. Skill is what makes bread or pizza great. Thank you so much for this test! Great channel btw. and greetings to you, my neighbor, from Germany :)
One problem with using non organic flour is that the wheat fields in the U.S. have been treated with "Roundup" which gets into your wheat and thus your flour and finally your body. This is not the case in Europe. My mother always said buying quality food is still cheaper in the end than doctor bills. She was right. God bless her but she lived into her 90's and her father to 100. She sure knew what she was talking about.
I agree but i have to say good flour from a local mill can give you a better taste of a bread. For me and i´m also living in Germany, i have to say, i get my flour from a local mill to support the local companys and have also a better taste :)
Absolutely. In my opinion, too many people fuss and obsess over exactly this ratio or that amount of time or this kind of flour or this piece of kitchenware to the point where it's an obstacle to enjoyment. Those things can make a little bit of a difference, but really, bread making is pretty simple. With a little practice you can make almost any wheat flour, salt, yeast, and water into something absolutely delicious. I'm not belittling Sune and his explorations, it's always fun to explore and test variations, but I think the cult of bread making over the last few years is scaring off a lot of people by making it seem much harder than it really is.
You've provided a CALCULATOR to measure the ingredients in your formulas page and I LOVE you for that!! Just spent an hour trying to find exact amounts to use for a little bit of sourdough starter, all purpose flour, and water which is all I have and there you are; you cut the chase for me and really educated me on how the ratios work and how to calculate the exact amounts. Cannot THANK YOU you enough. I will definitely purchase merchandise to support your site after I make the bread.
I think another interesting version of this experiment would be to use what you consider to be optimal hydration for each flour. That takes more work to find those levels, but, as you imply, it is not quite fair to the specialty bread flour to use the same hydration level as the other flours. You'd probably find that the specialty bread flour performs even better than the others.
Yeah, I was wondering what a direct comparison of the three flours with the same relative hydration, rather than absolute as in the video, would look like! Fascinating experiment as usual, Sune. Thank you so much for sharing with the world.
Thank you for this. I found this video incredibly helpful, especially since I have a lot of AP flour to go through. Your pre-shaping / shaping chops memorized me into thinking I could do it just as easily on the first go. Guess what? I couldn't. BUT I'm glad to have a great visual guide for reference and will keep practicing this technique.
Also, I'm feeding my starter nothing but el-cheapo supermarket flour. $2 for 5lb around my parts (Northeast US). Makes me 4 boules and feeds my started for a week. These days I'm working from home so I can feed it 2~3x/day. 10g starter, 10g el-cheapo flour, 10g water each time. Eats voraciously and easily triples.
I usually use 85% unbleached bread and 15% whole wheat with a 65% hydration. I like the taste and color the ww adds. I use a modified technique combining some steps from Foodgeek, Bake with Jack and Tartine/Chad Robertson. All good. Love your experiments that usually debunk some 'truths' we mostly all accept without question. Keep the vids coming.
Manuel Marzolla it depends on the environment. I just lost my sourdough starter as the temperature started to climb here in Bangladesh. It’s also really humid here. It got mold. I also hadn’t fed it for about four days, so I don’t know if that made a difference or not. Thankfully I had some store bought yeast until I could decide if I wanted to try to restart my starter. I miss the flavor, so I going to, but will clean out its old spac in the fridge for it. I would recommend for a warmer, more humid climate to either feed it daily, or to keep in the fridge. But that’s just one observation from one environment, not a general recommendation.
This is a great channel - I really appreciate all the time and effort you are putting into it with the sourdough experimentation, you are trying all of the different things I would love to try if I only had the time! I think you are also going a long way in taking a lot of the fear of sourdough baking out of the equation for new home bakers as well - great job!
Today I baked a basic blond boule with Gold Medal bleached enriched all purpose flour so common in US supermarkets (~10.5% protein). It took 6 coil folds until it passed the window pane test. The resulting boule did not get a great oven spring. Still better than any supermarket bread, but I would say ~2/3 the normal oven spring I get with the unbleached AP flour. So it seems that one can only push this so far and there is a point where flour does matter. That said, the Gold Medal bleached AP is not any cheaper than the unbleached AP flour so for bread baking, there's no reason to buy it.
Excellent video! My grandmother taught me how to make sourdough bread when I was young. Her starter was over 100-years old. Unfortunately, I was never able to keep her starter alive outside of the isolated canyon where she lived and had tried everything different waters, flours and temperatures. As strange as it may seem, it appeared to be a unique strain indigenous to the canyon. She made bread, in a huge enamel tub, for the whole town and her pancakes were famous for those traveling through. Today, with the virus, you deal with the flour that's available. About 6 months ago, my old standby Gold Medal wheat flour disappeared from the shelves and was forced to order 10-pounds online, and the dark rye isn't available the last I looked online. Thinking about making some sourdough Naan bread for Easter Sunday. Thanks much for the video.🥞🧇🥨🥖🍕
Absolutely love your work and dedication, my hat off to you bro, your doing the experiments without me having to waste ingredients especially useful in these times of lockdown and Coronavirus. Don’t belittle yourself with the geek title. No you’re a pioneer! Xx
I've been making all my quarantine bread with all purpose flour, jim lahey's no knead bread recipe, and a "sourdough starter" that began as a piece of bread dough made with commercial yeast that I added homemade yogurt to. All yeast is, is a culture, if you let it age it gets stronger, it becomes more resistant to the acidic and alcoholic environment it creates from its waste products, if you put it in flour it will eat through the flour and reproduce through the whole thing, and you can save a piece of dough to use as your new starter. If you've got time and planning you can make a bread loaf with literally maybe 10 minutes of active work, and no special equipment.
Hi Sune, been watching your videos. I'm addicted! Love your style and technique. I'm a sour dough baker myself so it is great to see many of my own questions answered in your vids. Keep 'em coming. Your friend here in California, USA.
Your videos on bread making are skillful and easy to follow. You give great instruction. Like the mad scientist you are, the experiments are well executed.
Been using only all purpose because it is recommended in Flour Water Salt Yeast. Its my first bread book and the breads came out great. Definitely going to explore other flours and books.
it's nice to see you struggling with the supermarket AP flour. I feel validated with how frustrating my experiences and how gooey and sticky it gets with 80% hydration, and that I'm not the only one.
Did you notice any difference in the 'chewiness' of the different breads? As others have mentioned, with the current difficulty in getting any flour, I'm stuck using AP flour. I add ~1 tablespoon 'vital wheat gluten' flour (70-80% protein) for each 1 cup of AP flour to add chewiness to the dough. Seems to work well! Another suggestion for you, I use cheap plastic shower caps to cover the bannetons in the fridge: they are reusable and look so cute!
@@totalspoon I got them from Amazon. I still have two that I collected from hotel rooms. They work well as bowl covers for potlucks, etc. Not that we can go to potlucks anymore. :-( www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071P3D7SH/
I’m so glad I found this page. I’m currently in the process of waiting for my sourdough dough to proof (I used wheat flour, bread flour, and all purpose in my dough, all from my general grocery store) and felt a bit nervous about my end result... u got a new subscriber today!
Hello there and thank you for teaching me how to make so many types. Of wonderful bread. One question, What size and brand are the square containers you use during the bulk rise. Thanks so much.
Hi Sune, I really like your experiments because they debunk the myths of baking bread. Thanks for all the effort you put in! Are you looking for a new experiment? I have a suggestion: Some bakers in Switzerland, Germany and maybe other countries use a so called scald when using wholemeal for a sourdough bread. They mix wholemeal flour with boiling water in a ratio 3:4 or 1:2. After cooling down, the scald is put overnight in the fridge. On the following day all the other ingredients are added for the dough. Due to the increased water absorption of the scald, the bread is said to keep longer fresh. I would like to know whether… (a) …the scald helps keeping the bread longer fresh, (b) …different ratios have any effect on the outcome of the bread or the freshness, (c) …adding salt in the scald has any effect (some say adding the salt for the whole dough prevents enzymatic degradation), (d) …the amount of flour of the scald affects the result. Often only a small amount of wholemeal flour is used, e.g. 100g flour mixed with water for a 1kg loaf of bread. What are the result if the amount is increased? That could make a whole series :)
Thank you Sune. This was extremely helpful. I have been struggling a bit using recipes for sourdough i found online. My doughs have been turning out very sticky and moist compared to what I seen in your videos and others. For a beginner a very sticky dough is not easy to handle. In Norway we basically only have all purpose flour. There's nothing called bread flour, or cake flour for that matter. I have found a specialty store nearby though and will test with some organic super flour next time I bake to see if it makes any difference. Thanks for another great video. Keep up the good work!
Hello Sune!! I love that you record the whole process!! It's really helpful for beginners like myself. I have one question: why is no kneading necessary? I have baked before without kneading the dough (just mixing it and doing sets of S&F), but I don't know why it works.
I just took the formula used in this video, that's linked in the description, and with the help of your Bread Calculator I lowered the hydration just a bit to make it easier for me to handle, since my last 3 bakes have been a flop. I also took the time to add the baking instructions in the Notes section, and then printed my own custom recipe based on this AP Flour Recipe you made. Your Bread Calculator is awesome! I hope I'm able to get this to work for me this time around. I'm using Hecker's AP Unbleached Flour which is a flour made in New York USA (the only one I could find in two weeks of searching for flour). Turns out this AP Flour has 11.5 to 11.9 % protein content which is higher than most AP Flours. So maybe your original hydration will work after all. We'll see how I do. I've tried several methods to bake sourdough and yours is the only one I truly understand, only because you've taken the time to explain why things work the way they do and what happens when you change one variable or another. Thank you for all your hard work on your channel!
@@Foodgeek Thank you! I'm determined to get there and watching your videos is helping. Once the flour shortage improves I'll be more willing to try higher hydration and improve my skills and not worry about a bad bake 😁 Thanks for the reply and your awesome videos!
Hi As a fellow dane living in New Zealand I can assure you that different ingredients make different bread. First off, danish supermarket flour is of quite high standard even the AP stuff. Here in Auckland, organic flour can only be found in special shops and with the lockdown it's not readily accessible. More interestingly, the small amount of chlorine in the water here, has killed my sourdough mother more than once. Have now changed to bottled spring water and we are back. So yes, you can make great bread from most flours, but there are some getting used to....
Thank you so much for this! All sourdough bread videos use specialty flour and its not as readily available for me. I’ve been googling this, searching TH-cam and nothing! Your video came in my suggestions after days of research and it was just what I needed!
I have a quick question for you! In your Sourdough bread for beginners recipe, the majority of the recipe is bread flour and around 152g + 40g for the levain is whole grain or wheat. I was wondering if I could substitute the whole grain/wheat for AP in that recipe? Would I need to change the water ratios at all do you think?
I use a 13% protein "Strong Flour" from Korea. It works fine for most breads. The good thing about it is it's quite cheap, but the quality is actually very good.
I like your videos and really appreciate the experiments. I've been making bread for years but never sourdough. Now I am trying it. First batch, great oven spring, but when cut the bread had huge holes in the top half and the bottom part was very solid, almost no bubbles at all. Baked on baking tiles. Consistency was good and the bread was edible, but not at all uniform in the final baked density. AP flour, strong starter, and using your easy sourdough recipe. I did use a steam pan in the bottom of the oven and wondered if that could have cooled down the baking stones. Cheers.
How does this not glue to your hand? The stuff I made sticks like the absolute hell³. Touching it like you do is completely impossible. Even cleaning my hands was an immense effort.
Thanks for this great video. There are so many TH-cam videos about hydration, but they never relate it to the type/quality of the flour. The big mistake that most baker-youtubers make is talking too much about numbers (%, weights) when they should be talking more about visual characteristic and textures.
Thanks, Sune. This was really helpful. I was thrilled to know your AP flour had only 10%. I believe that a longer autolyse helps a lot. But I also know that the final result is not the same for all AP flours, despite the same amount of protein. After lots of trial and error, I found that organic AP flours usually give the best results. 😊
Im testing out bleached all purpose flour and vital wheat gluten i had. Its comimg out great on day 7. Looking and smelling ready to bake. Ive also been successful in using my discard in other recipes like cinnamon rolls and quick rise breads.
@@vsblondie19 Hi. When I don't have bread flour to hand, I have also had good success in achieving a nice texture by adding vital wheat gluten to bump up the protein content of all-purpose flour to a good level. Depending on the brand of AP flour, this will typically be 4g-8g (1-2 level tsp) gluten per cup of flour.
I just found your channel and am going through all of your old videos. All of the other you-tubers making sourdough do things differently and insist their way is the best, which of course led to a number of questions. YOU answer those questions! I was using stone milled flour until recently when I had to switch to store-bought bread flour. The dough was extremely loose and harder to shape. After the second round I thought "I don't think it's me; I think it's the flour". Then I came across this video and my thoughts were confirmed! I also have MS, so spending a lot of time in the kitchen is hard for me. Your vids have shown me that I can use my stand mixer to knead the dough then I can just leave it for a few hours and do other things. I also don't have keep my starter out and constantly feed it, which is EXPENSIVE. I keep about 150g of starter in the fridge. When I am going to bake, I feed it with just the amount of flour/water I will need for my loaves. Little to no discards :)
My first ever sour dough loaf was already final shaped & in fridge when I saw this video. AP flour from supermarket 72% hydration. Too late to change. I did bake it this morning in a loaf pan rather than my originally planned free form boule. It tastes good, but it's more moist than standard. Now I'm eager to try 60-65%. Also plan to buy bread flour.
I use all purpose a fair bit, it's what we use for the standard white bread at work. I only use different flour if I'm doing spelt or wholemeal, something along those lines.
Thanks, now I know why I use so much less water than you do. I buy the Harina de Trigo at the market here in Mexico. It seems different from american AP flour. My bread is great. (With the tips I got from you and others.) I mix with a stand mixer for mixing before and after autolease, after that I do book folds at 30 minute intervals for six times. After shaping and resting the dough goes into the fridge for 12 hours. My kitchen is set back in the bed rock and is always between 68 and 71 degrees all year around with no heating or cooling in the house. I use an old fashioned gas oven with a cast iron dutchoven. I am also at at over 2000 meters in altitude. What I have learned is that if you don't have the perfect TH-cam ingredients and situation, you just need to experiment and adjust.
Hi there! I am from Honduras! Very far away from you but I’ve always wanted to make sourdough bread but I thought I couldn’t with all purpose flour because that’s the only one I can get in here! Thank you so much! I’ll start my starter today 🤗
This video series really proves that having fancy ingredients and being a chemist about ratios is not required to make tasty sourdough bread. As long as you have the skills to work with the dough and know when its ready for each stage, sourdough bread is easy to make and accessible for everyone.
So helpful right now, given the shortage of bread flour all over, thank you! I will crack on, using my AP flour with confidence in the quest of making yummy sourdough!
yes, it's the only flour i can find where i live, it has 10% of protein, and use 60% 65% of hydration. sometimes a mix it with whole flour can push it to 73% hydration.
@@rodrigorojasavila3439 I love the Yucatan! I first went there with my wife back in the early 1980s and we loved Chicken Pibil. I also loved the conch and I think another one was turtle, tortuga steaks. Once all this BS about this virus is over and there is anything left of the world economy, I want to return to the Yucatan. Good luck with your baking!!!!!!
Sune, great vid as always. 2 questions that came up probably both basic... what are you frequently pinching off as you are shaping? also in your other vid, it seems the coil fold was the winning technique overall, do you favor it in some instances over others? Or just when you feel like that's what you want to do? I've seen you use different fold techniques in diff experiments. Thanks!
I am running out of bread flour so I will have to use AP flour for my sourdough bread. Can you list the amount of ingredients please ? Thanks. I did not find them on the website for AP .
I think you should add another test: a CRUNCH and CRACKLE TEST of the crust to satisfy the ASMR needs of your salivating audience! Also, it would be nice to hear your guitar playing some time. Such beautiful guitars. Thank you Sune for a much needed comparison experiment. Home isolation in the time of COVID19 has made us all amateur bakers, evidenced by the absence of ALL flours, rye, bread even all purpose flour at the market. Last time only a lonely bag of cornmeal was left. Lucky we were already well stocked with bread and all purpose flour. Though after a month, we are starting run low now. (BTW, I am a scientist, so I very much appreciate your carefully controlled experiments! Kudo's)
What I would like to see is an experiment for how much whole wheat you can use before it starting to seriously affect oven spring, density of the crumb etc. That should ofc include one bread with 100% whole wheat too. Whole wheat is healthier and tastes better but somewhat more difficult to work with. Hope you can prove me wrong!
I´m confused you use the salt during autolyse. I always autolyse the flour only with water and add the salt with the starter. I do this because i read that the salt stop or slow the fermentation. But after your great results it seems that it has nothing to do with it. Have you any experience with this "salt theory"`? And how long is your autolyse?
I don't even technically autolyse, and it works great. I dissolve my starter and salt in warm water before mixing it with the flour, then let the whole thing rest for about 30 minutes before folding. It works great. I can't tell the difference between waiting to add the salt and starter, and I doubt many other people could, either.
@@fxm5715 I'm starting to do the same and I was wondering if anybody actually notices any difference. I like the convenience of mixing everything together, but some people will come at you with a flamethrower if you say you do. I'd like to see a side-by-side experiment.
@@gabea.2123 There's this interesting look at the some of the existing takes on when to add salt. artisanbreadbaking.com/techniques/autolyse/ There are arguments both ways, even if in today's popular technique is to delay. In the end, just try it both ways, and see if it makes a difference for you. I find the simplicity of dissolving the salt and starter into warm water hard to beat. But then I don't fuss over it, either, and it's always good.
Quite a few sources, like Ken Forkish's Flour Water Salt Yeast do not recommend using bread flour at ALL. 10-11% AP flour is the recommendation there. But AP flour is not standardized, some brands drop as low as 8-9% in the US.
My supermarkets are all sold out, like everywhere of everything but all purpose flour. However, there is plenty of packages of vital wheat gluten. I read that you can combine these to get more like bread flour. Is that accurate? I'm sure somebody in the comments will be able to help me. Thanks
Hi Sune, love your channel! Great content as always! Just wanted to mention that what is called "all-purpose" versus "bread" flour in different countries varies widely. You mentioned that all-purpose in Denmark is around 10.5%, and that bread flour is around 12.5%. In Canada (where I live), commercial all-purpose is anywhere between around 12-13% depending on the brand, whereas commercial bread flour is always more than 14% (really meant for loafpan sandwich bread). So in Canada, all-purpose is actually the sweet spot for sourdough! My understanding is that it's a similar situation in the US, but shifted down a bit. May I suggest talking in approximate percentages in future videos instead? This might clear up some confusion for people in some countries. Keep up the great work! I learn something new every time!
When my wife and I did the flour tests at sourdoughhome.com she did the taste testing without knowing which flour was being used. All too often, taste tests can deliver the results you expect, not knowing what you are tasting removes any tendency towards an unconscious, or even conscious, bias. Several times I was surprised that a favored flour didn't deliver the results I was expecting in the breads.
@@Foodgeek I grew up in the San Francisco, California area eating name brand sourdough bread from the supermarket (not the store brands). They never had such big holes. When I saw my brother putting his photos of bread he baked on FB, I thought they looked terrible, all those big holes. I was very surprised to find out people WANT big holes in their bread.
I usually use 2/3 bread flour, 1/3 whole grain flour, but in my experience, AP flour works fine, too. Sure, it may have a little less chew, a little less lift, but still makes darned good bread. If AP is all I happen to have on hand when I feel inspired to bake, it's certainly not going to stop me from making some fresh, delicious bread! I look forward to seeing your results.
I live in Germany and the flours are named differently here. Since i watch virtually everything in english i didn't bother to look up the different flour types, because i thought only the ash content and amount of bran in the flour would change, so i bought the most readily available flour: pastry flour (T405). Coming from 100% spelt flour this was still a huge improvement, especially to the stability of the raw dough after proofing. After reading your comment i will have to try out the correct flour type (AP is T550 and bread flour T812, high gluten would be T1050), so thanks for your comment and thanks Sune for the (yet to be released) video on the topic.
@@MrHardstylegamer We are scrued from the start mate, our countries got diferent naming of flower and no one explain it ... becouse 99% of blogers and youtubers do it in english. So in course of baking this topic was explained. Its all about protein in the flower, temperature of water/dough, water and yeast. Diferent countries do diferent types so you cant get same results whit similar products. For an example my country rye flower is not even close to germans. One type of flower take much more water than outher even when they are the same type(Т) becouse they are diferent grade, sort of plant and even supplements.
In Flour Water Salt Yeast, Ken Forkish says the following: --- Use the best-quality flour you can find, assessing its quality by both the appearance and the taste of the bread, and seek out flour with protein in the 11 to 12 percent range. Unfortunately, protein content is rarely detailed on flour packaging, but some brands do put this information on their websites. These lower-protein flours have more in common with the flour used in French and Italian artisan bakeries, and they tolerate a long rise well and produce a crumb that is delicate and easy to digest. They also produce dough that ends up less tight and more pliable, resulting in bread with a nice open crumb and a crust that blooms nicely during baking. Typically, flours labeled “bread flour” have a high protein content-generally about 14 percent. By contrast, flour labeled “all-purpose,” such as King Arthur Organic All-Purpose Flour, with an 11.8 percent protein content, is, in their words, “ideal for European-style hearth breads,” and I agree. At my bakery and pizzeria, we use Shepherd’s Grain Low-Gluten flour as our white flour for breads and pizza dough (see the essay for more on Shepherd’s Grain). Its protein content is about 11 percent. Try a variety of flours to see which you prefer...Protein content has long been a measure of marketability for wheat. The demand from large, industrial bakeries for high-protein flour places a premium on wheat with a higher percentage of protein...Bakers like me prefer lower-protein flour. --- Shepherd's grain also says that their low gluten flour is good for high hydration and long ferments.
I love your video presentation and what your doing. I’m making my first breads based on your instructions. In the past I’ve been able to get tangy flavor OR good oven spring. Never both. I’m at the bulk fermentation step and my dough is very taught and doesn’t really stretch. After 4 stretch and folds I’m not even close to window pane. My levain doubled in about 2 hours so I think my starter is active. Also the dough is very shaggy still, not smoothing at all. I’m sure by the time you see this, if you do, my bread will be long done so I’m commenting for others who might have the same issue. Also, I want to support what your doing, but a lot of your affiliate links are dead. I’ll wait a bit before I make purchases!
It sounds like you make have a very low hydration? What is it? About the links: by dead do you mean sold out? And for me to find out if they're dead, I need to know what country you are in :)
Foodgeek Hi. I followed the beginner sourdough recipe exactly, so maybe my flour is a thirsty one? I used King Arthur bread flour and Bobs Mill whole wheat flour. I’m in the US and the links said “no longer available” so I think not just sold out. In particular the baking steel and peel. Thanks for taking time.
Foodgeek for an update, after 9 stretch and folds I was still not getting the feel I’m used to. Very stiff and just couldn’t pull a window pane as well as I’m used to. I baked the bread and actually got a medium oven spring. I’ll cut into it tomorrow and discover the crumb and flavor. While baking it was not announcing a lot of tang with the smell. I really appreciate all the experimenting you do because now I feel I now what to do to make the dough slacker or increase the tang. One variable at a time! Thanks.
@@pilldoktor How to get more tang? I had the same problem, flat loaves with great flavor... Now I get decent spring with no flavor... I am still beginner So I hope I figure it out. I have to use a stand mixer and never know if i am over or under kneading yet, but I always get shaggy dough no matter if I run the machine short or long. So many things can make a difference. This time I scored deeper than ever, the loaf is in the oven and has the best spring I got thus far. Seems I have to knead longer and score deeper... reminds me of something else... If I get stronger dough then I could ferment longer? isnt that how the "tang" comes from, longer ferment??
@Waffle Stack I had the same problem, BUT what I found out is that the problem in distribution is at the customer packaging level. All the commercial stuff is actually in a surplus. SO find a baker supplier and by a couple 25 or 50 pound bags and break them out into gallon baggies and throw them into the freezer. :) Kind of pricey but LOTS of availability.
There are absolutely no sourdough experiments on youtube including regular all purpose, supermarket 10% protein wheat flour. Except for now!!! Much thanks!!! Everyone, in their recipes, tend to use the highest quality bread flour automatically. And even when they do use so called all purpose, they are still using brands that have at least 11.7% like KAF. This experiment needed to be done. It dispels the myth that all purpose low protein flour can never be used for sourdough bread. You proved that, indeed, it can be done. One just has to use the correct technique. Kudos!!!
I know! People are making sourdough so freaking elite, but not everyone has access to the organic highend stuff. Or they want to save money. And if starters were all we had for thousands of years before baker's yeast, why wouldn't it work with AP flour? My starter is all AP.
@@brokenglassshimmerlikestar3407 is it ok to use AP when making the starter?
@@alicad2190 My starter is all AP and it's doing great.
Its almost as if you didnt need this experiment at all, right? Ive been baking sourdough bread with AP, or 550 in Europe, for years now, with no problems whatsoever. And Ill continue to do so. Sourdough bread is older than high gluten flour by a few thousands of years. You dont need a fancy technique or anything, just make it as you would with that kryptonite flour that is only available in USA. Wether it turns out the same or not I wouldn't really know, what I know is that it turns out extremely delicious and looking like any bread Ive seen online.
Technique and ones ability to make a decent loaf is at least 3x more important than the type of white flour you use.
@@Qlicky The thing I wonder is how different AP is from what was/is produced simply by milling the grain. The flours I get all list a few more ingredients (added nutrients, mostly, probably).
Don't mind me, just making personal notes for AP flour bread bc i'm running low on flours.
1:55 Formulation
2:32 Autolyse (1 hr)
3:26 Starter (30 mins) Then Bulk Fermentation
4:28 Second stretch and fold
5:58 3rd stretch, Window pane test, ferment at 30°C. Let rise for +50% volume
12:42 Pre-shape and ball, Bench Rest, and Final Shape
16:47 Score and Bake at 260 ° C
17:44 Final Product
oh my, my personal notes got noticed by the man himself. My entire week is made 😅♥️
“Regular run of the mill flour”. 😂 All flour is run of the mill.
olivepressdesign I like you
😂🤣
olivepressdesign Thanks for the laugh Olivepress, I kneaded that !
You could say lately that there's been a run *ON* the mills!
I've been watching Bob's red mill's website, and they have been out of stock of everything for weeks. Luckily, my local Bi-Mart store was still stocked with Bob's AP and whole wheat, probably because their headquarters are both in Oregon. Just got a few more cases this weekend!
If I’ve learned anything from watching these experiments you run, it’s that with enough skill any thing makes delicious bread. Cheap flour, expensive flour, coil folds, one hand folds, autolyse before or after salt... no matter what your bread is amazing.
Spot on. Anything can be made tasty when you know how to work with it.
You are the MAN! Every time I have a question and search TH-cam, you have done an experiment on it. From the bread proofing box, to the cast iron bakers, and beyond. Thanks so much! Your videos are well produced, leaving no questions to your processes and my sourdough obsession results continue to improve. Incredibly helpful - just, . . wow.
Finally! I always say if you have flour, water salt and yeast/sourdough you can make bread/pizza. People think by using the most expensive high tech flour, they will produce good bread. I had so many conversations where people told me to try Manitoba flour and what not because it will make my pizza even greater but I get great results even with standard flour. Sure, there are some differences in hydration but that's the part where you need skill. Skill is what makes bread or pizza great. Thank you so much for this test! Great channel btw. and greetings to you, my neighbor, from Germany :)
One problem with using non organic flour is that the wheat fields in the U.S. have been treated with "Roundup" which gets into your wheat and thus your flour and finally your body. This is not the case in Europe. My mother always said buying quality food is still cheaper in the end than doctor bills. She was right. God bless her but she lived into her 90's and her father to 100. She sure knew what she was talking about.
I agree but i have to say good flour from a local mill can give you a better taste of a bread. For me and i´m also living in Germany, i have to say, i get my flour from a local mill to support the local companys and have also a better taste :)
Absolutely. In my opinion, too many people fuss and obsess over exactly this ratio or that amount of time or this kind of flour or this piece of kitchenware to the point where it's an obstacle to enjoyment. Those things can make a little bit of a difference, but really, bread making is pretty simple. With a little practice you can make almost any wheat flour, salt, yeast, and water into something absolutely delicious. I'm not belittling Sune and his explorations, it's always fun to explore and test variations, but I think the cult of bread making over the last few years is scaring off a lot of people by making it seem much harder than it really is.
Are you aware that the protein % can be very different?
I totally agree!!!
You've provided a CALCULATOR to measure the ingredients in your formulas page and I LOVE you for that!! Just spent an hour trying to find exact amounts to use for a little bit of sourdough starter, all purpose flour, and water which is all I have and there you are; you cut the chase for me and really educated me on how the ratios work and how to calculate the exact amounts. Cannot THANK YOU you enough. I will definitely purchase merchandise to support your site after I make the bread.
I think another interesting version of this experiment would be to use what you consider to be optimal hydration for each flour. That takes more work to find those levels, but, as you imply, it is not quite fair to the specialty bread flour to use the same hydration level as the other flours. You'd probably find that the specialty bread flour performs even better than the others.
I know it does. The last many of my baking experiments use this flour. It's perfect at 80-85% 😊
Yeah, I was wondering what a direct comparison of the three flours with the same relative hydration, rather than absolute as in the video, would look like! Fascinating experiment as usual, Sune. Thank you so much for sharing with the world.
Thank you for this. I found this video incredibly helpful, especially since I have a lot of AP flour to go through. Your pre-shaping / shaping chops memorized me into thinking I could do it just as easily on the first go. Guess what? I couldn't. BUT I'm glad to have a great visual guide for reference and will keep practicing this technique.
It's a process. If you go look at my videos from a year ago I've learned a lot :)
Also, I'm feeding my starter nothing but el-cheapo supermarket flour. $2 for 5lb around my parts (Northeast US). Makes me 4 boules and feeds my started for a week. These days I'm working from home so I can feed it 2~3x/day. 10g starter, 10g el-cheapo flour, 10g water each time. Eats voraciously and easily triples.
I usually use 85% unbleached bread and 15% whole wheat with a 65% hydration. I like the taste and color the ww adds. I use a modified technique combining some steps from Foodgeek, Bake with Jack and Tartine/Chad Robertson. All good. Love your experiments that usually debunk some 'truths' we mostly all accept without question. Keep the vids coming.
Yes, the best tip is: "you can keep the starter at room temperature". That makes it so much easier.
@@usafan96soren20 How long can you keep it at room temperature without feeding it? Would a couple of days kill it? Thanks!
@@gabea.2123 Absolutely not, the longest I've gone is almost two weeks.
@@usafan96soren20 Great to know, thanks! Sometimes I won't bake for a few days, less than a week, but hesitate whether to put it in the fridge or not.
Manuel Marzolla it depends on the environment. I just lost my sourdough starter as the temperature started to climb here in Bangladesh. It’s also really humid here. It got mold. I also hadn’t fed it for about four days, so I don’t know if that made a difference or not. Thankfully I had some store bought yeast until I could decide if I wanted to try to restart my starter. I miss the flavor, so I going to, but will clean out its old spac in the fridge for it. I would recommend for a warmer, more humid climate to either feed it daily, or to keep in the fridge. But that’s just one observation from one environment, not a general recommendation.
I love your comparison vids, because they demonstrate that life is more a matter of technic than material. Keep up your good work.
Thank you for experimenting and showing the results, made me learn and feel better after couple of failures with oven spring.
This is a great channel - I really appreciate all the time and effort you are putting into it with the sourdough experimentation, you are trying all of the different things I would love to try if I only had the time! I think you are also going a long way in taking a lot of the fear of sourdough baking out of the equation for new home bakers as well - great job!
Thank you for the lack of useless talking. I liked the real and direct action.
Man ,honestly the content you produce is indispensable and precious! Thank you.
Your stretching and shaping using a dough scraper is excellent, you make it look so easy
Today I baked a basic blond boule with Gold Medal bleached enriched all purpose flour so common in US supermarkets (~10.5% protein). It took 6 coil folds until it passed the window pane test. The resulting boule did not get a great oven spring. Still better than any supermarket bread, but I would say ~2/3 the normal oven spring I get with the unbleached AP flour. So it seems that one can only push this so far and there is a point where flour does matter. That said, the Gold Medal bleached AP is not any cheaper than the unbleached AP flour so for bread baking, there's no reason to buy it.
Thanks for the tips on flour types, but also on your stretch and fold, and shaping technique. I appreciate your experiments. Thanks!
Excellent video! My grandmother taught me how to make sourdough bread when I was young. Her starter was over 100-years old. Unfortunately, I was never able to keep her starter alive outside of the isolated canyon where she lived and had tried everything different waters, flours and temperatures. As strange as it may seem, it appeared to be a unique strain indigenous to the canyon. She made bread, in a huge enamel tub, for the whole town and her pancakes were famous for those traveling through. Today, with the virus, you deal with the flour that's available. About 6 months ago, my old standby Gold Medal wheat flour disappeared from the shelves and was forced to order 10-pounds online, and the dark rye isn't available the last I looked online. Thinking about making some sourdough Naan bread for Easter Sunday. Thanks much for the video.🥞🧇🥨🥖🍕
不懂你说啥
It’s all I ever use and works out perfectly to my liking
Absolutely love your work and dedication, my hat off to you bro, your doing the experiments without me having to waste ingredients especially useful in these times of lockdown and Coronavirus.
Don’t belittle yourself with the geek title. No you’re a pioneer! Xx
I've been making all my quarantine bread with all purpose flour, jim lahey's no knead bread recipe, and a "sourdough starter" that began as a piece of bread dough made with commercial yeast that I added homemade yogurt to.
All yeast is, is a culture, if you let it age it gets stronger, it becomes more resistant to the acidic and alcoholic environment it creates from its waste products, if you put it in flour it will eat through the flour and reproduce through the whole thing, and you can save a piece of dough to use as your new starter.
If you've got time and planning you can make a bread loaf with literally maybe 10 minutes of active work, and no special equipment.
I’d like to know more about this, it sounds so interesting
Hi Sune, been watching your videos. I'm addicted! Love your style and technique. I'm a sour dough baker myself so it is great to see many of my own questions answered in your vids. Keep 'em coming. Your friend here in California, USA.
Your videos on bread making are skillful and easy to follow. You give great instruction. Like the mad scientist you are, the experiments are well executed.
Been using only all purpose because it is recommended in Flour Water Salt Yeast. Its my first bread book and the breads came out great. Definitely going to explore other flours and books.
Can I ask you how much protein has the AP flour you’ve used?
10.5%
Foodgeek thank you
it's nice to see you struggling with the supermarket AP flour. I feel validated with how frustrating my experiences and how gooey and sticky it gets with 80% hydration, and that I'm not the only one.
I’m loving your channel mate, much appreciation from Australia 🇦🇺
Thank you ❤️
Jesus H Christ yeah I know, he drinks at my local on Sunday’s , weird sense of humour though, must get that from his dad.
@@darrencorbett9883 yeah if you see him again he owes me money, I need to catch up.
Thank you for geeking out for us for this video. Bread flour is quite hard to get at the moment and this really puts my mind at ease.
Dude, love your videos so much. You really helped answer a lot of my questions and it's just so enjoyable to watch. Thanks from New Jersey
Did you notice any difference in the 'chewiness' of the different breads? As others have mentioned, with the current difficulty in getting any flour, I'm stuck using AP flour. I add ~1 tablespoon 'vital wheat gluten' flour (70-80% protein) for each 1 cup of AP flour to add chewiness to the dough. Seems to work well! Another suggestion for you, I use cheap plastic shower caps to cover the bannetons in the fridge: they are reusable and look so cute!
The ap-bread had the softest crumb, but only by a hair :)
HI Jill. Could you please tell me where you get the cheapy shower caps from? I'm considering having to buy proper ones. lmao
@@totalspoon I got them from Amazon. I still have two that I collected from hotel rooms. They work well as bowl covers for potlucks, etc. Not that we can go to potlucks anymore. :-( www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071P3D7SH/
Just been gifted 10kg organic AP flour so going to use it up before buying my normal bread flour again. This was very helpful thank you.
I’m so glad I found this page. I’m currently in the process of waiting for my sourdough dough to proof (I used wheat flour, bread flour, and all purpose in my dough, all from my general grocery store) and felt a bit nervous about my end result... u got a new subscriber today!
Best of luck to you ❤️
Hello there and thank you for teaching me how to make so many types. Of wonderful bread. One question, What size and brand are the square containers you use during the bulk rise. Thanks so much.
Great video! I could watch you shape dough for hours. What a great talent you have.
Hey man, If I was in Denmark with all that sourdough, you would see a kilo of soft danish butter next to that crumb.
Hi Sune, I really like your experiments because they debunk the myths of baking bread. Thanks for all the effort you put in!
Are you looking for a new experiment? I have a suggestion:
Some bakers in Switzerland, Germany and maybe other countries use a so called scald when using wholemeal for a sourdough bread. They mix wholemeal flour with boiling water in a ratio 3:4 or 1:2. After cooling down, the scald is put overnight in the fridge. On the following day all the other ingredients are added for the dough. Due to the increased water absorption of the scald, the bread is said to keep longer fresh.
I would like to know whether…
(a) …the scald helps keeping the bread longer fresh,
(b) …different ratios have any effect on the outcome of the bread or the freshness,
(c) …adding salt in the scald has any effect (some say adding the salt for the whole dough prevents enzymatic degradation),
(d) …the amount of flour of the scald affects the result. Often only a small amount of wholemeal flour is used, e.g. 100g flour mixed with water for a 1kg loaf of bread. What are the result if the amount is increased?
That could make a whole series :)
Marian Sand
That’s also called a Tangzhong or water roux. You cook part of the flour in liquid to a paste and it does extends the shelf, as you said
Thank you Sune. This was extremely helpful. I have been struggling a bit using recipes for sourdough i found online. My doughs have been turning out very sticky and moist compared to what I seen in your videos and others. For a beginner a very sticky dough is not easy to handle.
In Norway we basically only have all purpose flour. There's nothing called bread flour, or cake flour for that matter. I have found a specialty store nearby though and will test with some organic super flour next time I bake to see if it makes any difference.
Thanks for another great video. Keep up the good work!
I really appreciate the time, money, and effort you put into this video. Great information.
Love the bench scraper !!!
Hello Sune!!
I love that you record the whole process!! It's really helpful for beginners like myself.
I have one question: why is no kneading necessary? I have baked before without kneading the dough (just mixing it and doing sets of S&F), but I don't know why it works.
When it comes to sourdough kneading is replaced with time.
It's because of hydration and time. This is not possible with stiffer doughs or shorter rise times, which is perfect for sourdough.
I just took the formula used in this video, that's linked in the description, and with the help of your Bread Calculator I lowered the hydration just a bit to make it easier for me to handle, since my last 3 bakes have been a flop. I also took the time to add the baking instructions in the Notes section, and then printed my own custom recipe based on this AP Flour Recipe you made. Your Bread Calculator is awesome! I hope I'm able to get this to work for me this time around. I'm using Hecker's AP Unbleached Flour which is a flour made in New York USA (the only one I could find in two weeks of searching for flour). Turns out this AP Flour has 11.5 to 11.9 % protein content which is higher than most AP Flours. So maybe your original hydration will work after all. We'll see how I do. I've tried several methods to bake sourdough and yours is the only one I truly understand, only because you've taken the time to explain why things work the way they do and what happens when you change one variable or another. Thank you for all your hard work on your channel!
It may work, but high hydration is part flour, part skills, so you need to work your way up :) Good luck :D
@@Foodgeek Thank you! I'm determined to get there and watching your videos is helping. Once the flour shortage improves I'll be more willing to try higher hydration and improve my skills and not worry about a bad bake 😁 Thanks for the reply and your awesome videos!
Hi
As a fellow dane living in New Zealand I can assure you that different ingredients make different bread.
First off, danish supermarket flour is of quite high standard even the AP stuff.
Here in Auckland, organic flour can only be found in special shops and with the lockdown it's not readily accessible.
More interestingly, the small amount of chlorine in the water here, has killed my sourdough mother more than once. Have now changed to bottled spring water and we are back.
So yes, you can make great bread from most flours, but there are some getting used to....
Thank you so much for this! All sourdough bread videos use specialty flour and its not as readily available for me. I’ve been googling this, searching TH-cam and nothing! Your video came in my suggestions after days of research and it was just what I needed!
I have a quick question for you! In your Sourdough bread for beginners recipe, the majority of the recipe is bread flour and around 152g + 40g for the levain is whole grain or wheat. I was wondering if I could substitute the whole grain/wheat for AP in that recipe? Would I need to change the water ratios at all do you think?
Update: I did it with regular AP and it turned out amazing! You rock!!
Sarah Shipley Glad you got an answer🙄
Angie Luna oh I didn’t get an answer lol, I just used another one of his videos to answer my own question :)
I use a 13% protein "Strong Flour" from Korea. It works fine for most breads. The good thing about it is it's quite cheap, but the quality is actually very good.
Can you share the name of that flour please?
I like your videos and really appreciate the experiments. I've been making bread for years but never sourdough. Now I am trying it. First batch, great oven spring, but when cut the bread had huge holes in the top half and the bottom part was very solid, almost no bubbles at all. Baked on baking tiles. Consistency was good and the bread was edible, but not at all uniform in the final baked density. AP flour, strong starter, and using your easy sourdough recipe. I did use a steam pan in the bottom of the oven and wondered if that could have cooled down the baking stones. Cheers.
How does this not glue to your hand? The stuff I made sticks like the absolute hell³. Touching it like you do is completely impossible. Even cleaning my hands was an immense effort.
When I first started out, I felt just like you. After having baked a lot of sourdough it seems easy 😊
Hej Sune! Superbra experiment! Motbevisar alla geeks som bara komplicerar med att trycka in saltet efter autolysen, etc! !00 tack från Stockholm!
Thanks for this great video. There are so many TH-cam videos about hydration, but they never relate it to the type/quality of the flour. The big mistake that most baker-youtubers make is talking too much about numbers (%, weights) when they should be talking more about visual characteristic and textures.
Thanks, Sune. This was really helpful. I was thrilled to know your AP flour had only 10%. I believe that a longer autolyse helps a lot. But I also know that the final result is not the same for all AP flours, despite the same amount of protein. After lots of trial and error, I found that organic AP flours usually give the best results. 😊
Such a nice person and great explanations! Thank you.
Was this non bleached all purpose or bleached? The grocery stores nearby are out of unbleached
Unfortunately we don't have bleached for me to test with in Denmark. Otherwise that would be a great test 😊
Im testing out bleached all purpose flour and vital wheat gluten i had. Its comimg out great on day 7. Looking and smelling ready to bake. Ive also been successful in using my discard in other recipes like cinnamon rolls and quick rise breads.
@@vsblondie19 Hi. When I don't have bread flour to hand, I have also had good success in achieving a nice texture by adding vital wheat gluten to bump up the protein content of all-purpose flour to a good level. Depending on the brand of AP flour, this will typically be 4g-8g (1-2 level tsp) gluten per cup of flour.
love your films, your experiments and attitude.
I just found your channel and am going through all of your old videos. All of the other you-tubers making sourdough do things differently and insist their way is the best, which of course led to a number of questions. YOU answer those questions! I was using stone milled flour until recently when I had to switch to store-bought bread flour. The dough was extremely loose and harder to shape. After the second round I thought "I don't think it's me; I think it's the flour". Then I came across this video and my thoughts were confirmed!
I also have MS, so spending a lot of time in the kitchen is hard for me. Your vids have shown me that I can use my stand mixer to knead the dough then I can just leave it for a few hours and do other things. I also don't have keep my starter out and constantly feed it, which is EXPENSIVE. I keep about 150g of starter in the fridge. When I am going to bake, I feed it with just the amount of flour/water I will need for my loaves. Little to no discards :)
My first ever sour dough loaf was already final shaped & in fridge when I saw this video. AP flour from supermarket 72% hydration. Too late to change. I did bake it this morning in a loaf pan rather than my originally planned free form boule. It tastes good, but it's more moist than standard. Now I'm eager to try 60-65%. Also plan to buy bread flour.
I use all purpose a fair bit, it's what we use for the standard white bread at work. I only use different flour if I'm doing spelt or wholemeal, something along those lines.
This is mesmerizing. I cannot look away.
Thank you for doing these experiments! They’re very helpful!
Brilliant video. Couldn’t come at a better time, as I’m getting back into making sourdough. Thanks for putting this together for us ☺️🌱
Thanks, now I know why I use so much less water than you do. I buy the Harina de Trigo at the market here in Mexico. It seems different from american AP flour. My bread is great. (With the tips I got from you and others.) I mix with a stand mixer for mixing before and after autolease, after that I do book folds at 30 minute intervals for six times. After shaping and resting the dough goes into the fridge for 12 hours. My kitchen is set back in the bed rock and is always between 68 and 71 degrees all year around with no heating or cooling in the house. I use an old fashioned gas oven with a cast iron dutchoven. I am also at at over 2000 meters in altitude. What I have learned is that if you don't have the perfect TH-cam ingredients and situation, you just need to experiment and adjust.
Nice video, well explained thank you . From Singapore.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi there! I am from Honduras! Very far away from you but I’ve always wanted to make sourdough bread but I thought I couldn’t with all purpose flour because that’s the only one I can get in here! Thank you so much! I’ll start my starter today 🤗
How much starter and salt for the recipe? Many thanks 🙏
Click the links for the formula in the description :)
I need to buy several of the bulking containers at 5:17. Can anyone tell me where to find them?
This video series really proves that having fancy ingredients and being a chemist about ratios is not required to make tasty sourdough bread. As long as you have the skills to work with the dough and know when its ready for each stage, sourdough bread is easy to make and accessible for everyone.
So helpful right now, given the shortage of bread flour all over, thank you! I will crack on, using my AP flour with confidence in the quest of making yummy sourdough!
You should play some original music on one of those guitars for audio over the tasting portion of the video 😁 That would be super cool.
Great idea 😁🎸
I was thinking the same thing when i "discovered" this channel yesterday!
Looking forward to seeing AND hearing your next creation!
👍🏻🌾🌾🌾🌾🎶🎶🎶🍞🍞🤪
@@intelligentcomputing you'll be soon addicted, these bread recipes are so so good.
@@Foodgeek Please no music !!!! There are enough video music with music ! I just want to hear the sound of the brad !
I know those are not for decoration behind you 🙂
Question: what is the reason for popping the surface bubbles before proofing?
Surface bubbles are popped so they don't burn while cooking since that part of the dough , the bubble, is thinner.
Congrats on all the new subbies!!
yes, it's the only flour i can find where i live, it has 10% of protein, and use 60% 65% of hydration. sometimes a mix it with whole flour can push it to 73% hydration.
Where do you live Rodrigo?
@@DANVIIL Yucatán, México.
@@rodrigorojasavila3439 I love the Yucatan! I first went there with my wife back in the early 1980s and we loved Chicken Pibil. I also loved the conch and I think another one was turtle, tortuga steaks. Once all this BS about this virus is over and there is anything left of the world economy, I want to return to the Yucatan. Good luck with your baking!!!!!!
@@DANVIIL Pibil is very good, I haven't try turtle has been ilegal for 10 years now, good you had the chance
Sune, great vid as always. 2 questions that came up probably both basic... what are you frequently pinching off as you are shaping? also in your other vid, it seems the coil fold was the winning technique overall, do you favor it in some instances over others? Or just when you feel like that's what you want to do? I've seen you use different fold techniques in diff experiments. Thanks!
When he is shaping the dough, and pinches it, he is popping any surface bubbles he sees.
@@notahotshot thanks! Its hard to tell on the videos themselves
I think you can get great results with all the folding methods 😊
I am running out of bread flour so I will have to use AP flour for my sourdough bread. Can you list the amount of ingredients please ? Thanks. I did not find them on the website for AP .
Miriciao I agree...that would be helpful
Your channel is the best, my friend! Congratulations for the job and a "hi" from Brazil :D
This is a GREAT experiment thanks
Great video and explanation
I have some questions
Why my bread has bubble end bake?
Thanks for this experiment! Great video 👍
The results were a bit surprising to me. I won't be hesitating to the all purpose flour if that is all that is available. Good experiment. Thanks.
I think you should add another test: a CRUNCH and CRACKLE TEST of the crust to satisfy the ASMR needs of your salivating audience!
Also, it would be nice to hear your guitar playing some time. Such beautiful guitars.
Thank you Sune for a much needed comparison experiment. Home isolation in the time of COVID19 has made us all amateur bakers, evidenced by the absence of ALL flours, rye, bread even all purpose flour at the market. Last time only a lonely bag of cornmeal was left. Lucky we were already well stocked with bread and all purpose flour. Though after a month, we are starting run low now. (BTW, I am a scientist, so I very much appreciate your carefully controlled experiments! Kudo's)
From the Fredge you bake it direct or has to stay in room temperature quite some time ????
Was the all purpose loaf lighter in crumb texture than the bread flours?
Discovered your channel recently. Thank you for the detailed experiment and your expertise
That knife you’re using cuts right through, brand of knife? Thanks!
It's a Kasumi 😁 fdgk.net/buy-kasumi-bread-knife
That’s almost a $200 knife in the US😳😮
Great video, thanks for the experiment, I usually bake with all-purpose flour, I guess I'll continue with the same.
What I would like to see is an experiment for how much whole wheat you can use before it starting to seriously affect oven spring, density of the crumb etc. That should ofc include one bread with 100% whole wheat too. Whole wheat is healthier and tastes better but somewhat more difficult to work with. Hope you can prove me wrong!
Eivind Biering-Strand good idea 👍
I have one planned for next Saturday with 20%, 40% and 60% 😊
I´m confused you use the salt during autolyse. I always autolyse the flour only with water and add the salt with the starter. I do this because i read that the salt stop or slow the fermentation.
But after your great results it seems that it has nothing to do with it. Have you any experience with this "salt theory"`? And how long is your autolyse?
In this case it was an hour. I have a video coming out about this very soon 😊
I don't even technically autolyse, and it works great. I dissolve my starter and salt in warm water before mixing it with the flour, then let the whole thing rest for about 30 minutes before folding. It works great. I can't tell the difference between waiting to add the salt and starter, and I doubt many other people could, either.
@@fxm5715 I'm starting to do the same and I was wondering if anybody actually notices any difference. I like the convenience of mixing everything together, but some people will come at you with a flamethrower if you say you do. I'd like to see a side-by-side experiment.
@@gabea.2123 There's this interesting look at the some of the existing takes on when to add salt. artisanbreadbaking.com/techniques/autolyse/ There are arguments both ways, even if in today's popular technique is to delay. In the end, just try it both ways, and see if it makes a difference for you. I find the simplicity of dissolving the salt and starter into warm water hard to beat. But then I don't fuss over it, either, and it's always good.
Quite a few sources, like Ken Forkish's Flour Water Salt Yeast do not recommend using bread flour at ALL. 10-11% AP flour is the recommendation there. But AP flour is not standardized, some brands drop as low as 8-9% in the US.
My supermarkets are all sold out, like everywhere of everything but all purpose flour. However, there is plenty of packages of vital wheat gluten. I read that you can combine these to get more like bread flour. Is that accurate? I'm sure somebody in the comments will be able to help me. Thanks
Pepperoni Stick You can. Look in the comments for a response from the OP with a link to his blog post with calculations for that.
what is the dough pinching for? ty
Just for removing bubbles forming right under the crust :)
@@Foodgeek really ! 😅. I was sure it was some test to test the crust ! The secret long forgotten pinch technique! Tyvm ❤️
😂
What is best way to keep this bread in the kitchen? Thanks for all.
Wrapped in a clean dish towel 😊
Lock the door and tell your family to stay away :-) At least that's my experience!
Hi Sune, love your channel! Great content as always!
Just wanted to mention that what is called "all-purpose" versus "bread" flour in different countries varies widely. You mentioned that all-purpose in Denmark is around 10.5%, and that bread flour is around 12.5%. In Canada (where I live), commercial all-purpose is anywhere between around 12-13% depending on the brand, whereas commercial bread flour is always more than 14% (really meant for loafpan sandwich bread). So in Canada, all-purpose is actually the sweet spot for sourdough! My understanding is that it's a similar situation in the US, but shifted down a bit.
May I suggest talking in approximate percentages in future videos instead? This might clear up some confusion for people in some countries.
Keep up the great work! I learn something new every time!
you keep on surprising us , Thanks alot man for everything .
When my wife and I did the flour tests at sourdoughhome.com she did the taste testing without knowing which flour was being used. All too often, taste tests can deliver the results you expect, not knowing what you are tasting removes any tendency towards an unconscious, or even conscious, bias. Several times I was surprised that a favored flour didn't deliver the results I was expecting in the breads.
I know all about bias, but I make my videos alone, so it's difficult to do a (double) blind test 😁
i don't like big holes, makes the filling and condiments fall out of sandwich ....
Then make sure you deflate the bread at preshaping :)
@@Foodgeek I grew up in the San Francisco, California area eating name brand sourdough bread from the supermarket (not the store brands). They never had such big holes. When I saw my brother putting his photos of bread he baked on FB, I thought they looked terrible, all those big holes. I was very surprised to find out people WANT big holes in their bread.
I usually use 2/3 bread flour, 1/3 whole grain flour, but in my experience, AP flour works fine, too. Sure, it may have a little less chew, a little less lift, but still makes darned good bread. If AP is all I happen to have on hand when I feel inspired to bake, it's certainly not going to stop me from making some fresh, delicious bread! I look forward to seeing your results.
I live in Germany and the flours are named differently here. Since i watch virtually everything in english i didn't bother to look up the different flour types, because i thought only the ash content and amount of bran in the flour would change, so i bought the most readily available flour: pastry flour (T405). Coming from 100% spelt flour this was still a huge improvement, especially to the stability of the raw dough after proofing.
After reading your comment i will have to try out the correct flour type (AP is T550 and bread flour T812, high gluten would be T1050), so thanks for your comment and thanks Sune for the (yet to be released) video on the topic.
@@MrHardstylegamer We are scrued from the start mate, our countries got diferent naming of flower and no one explain it ... becouse 99% of blogers and youtubers do it in english. So in course of baking this topic was explained. Its all about protein in the flower, temperature of water/dough, water and yeast. Diferent countries do diferent types so you cant get same results whit similar products. For an example my country rye flower is not even close to germans. One type of flower take much more water than outher even when they are the same type(Т) becouse they are diferent grade, sort of plant and even supplements.
In Flour Water Salt Yeast, Ken Forkish says the following:
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Use the best-quality flour you can find, assessing its quality by both the appearance and the taste of the bread, and seek out flour with protein in the 11 to 12 percent range. Unfortunately, protein content is rarely detailed on flour packaging, but some brands do put this information on their websites. These lower-protein flours have more in common with the flour used in French and Italian artisan bakeries, and they tolerate a long rise well and produce a crumb that is delicate and easy to digest. They also produce dough that ends up less tight and more pliable, resulting in bread with a nice open crumb and a crust that blooms nicely during baking. Typically, flours labeled “bread flour” have a high protein content-generally about 14 percent. By contrast, flour labeled “all-purpose,” such as King Arthur Organic All-Purpose Flour, with an 11.8 percent protein content, is, in their words, “ideal for European-style hearth breads,” and I agree. At my bakery and pizzeria, we use Shepherd’s Grain Low-Gluten flour as our white flour for breads and pizza dough (see the essay for more on Shepherd’s Grain). Its protein content is about 11 percent. Try a variety of flours to see which you prefer...Protein content has long been a measure of marketability for wheat. The demand from large, industrial bakeries for high-protein flour places a premium on wheat with a higher percentage of protein...Bakers like me prefer lower-protein flour.
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Shepherd's grain also says that their low gluten flour is good for high hydration and long ferments.
great content as always, have you ever done a video on using autolyse or not, and the differeces in the bread?
I love your video presentation and what your doing. I’m making my first breads based on your instructions. In the past I’ve been able to get tangy flavor OR good oven spring. Never both. I’m at the bulk fermentation step and my dough is very taught and doesn’t really stretch. After 4 stretch and folds I’m not even close to window pane. My levain doubled in about 2 hours so I think my starter is active. Also the dough is very shaggy still, not smoothing at all. I’m sure by the time you see this, if you do, my bread will be long done so I’m commenting for others who might have the same issue. Also, I want to support what your doing, but a lot of your affiliate links are dead. I’ll wait a bit before I make purchases!
It sounds like you make have a very low hydration? What is it?
About the links: by dead do you mean sold out? And for me to find out if they're dead, I need to know what country you are in :)
Foodgeek Hi. I followed the beginner sourdough recipe exactly, so maybe my flour is a thirsty one? I used King Arthur bread flour and Bobs Mill whole wheat flour. I’m in the US and the links said “no longer available” so I think not just sold out. In particular the baking steel and peel. Thanks for taking time.
Foodgeek for an update, after 9 stretch and folds I was still not getting the feel I’m used to. Very stiff and just couldn’t pull a window pane as well as I’m used to. I baked the bread and actually got a medium oven spring. I’ll cut into it tomorrow and discover the crumb and flavor. While baking it was not announcing a lot of tang with the smell. I really appreciate all the experimenting you do because now I feel I now what to do to make the dough slacker or increase the tang. One variable at a time! Thanks.
@@pilldoktor How to get more tang? I had the same problem, flat loaves with great flavor... Now I get decent spring with no flavor... I am still beginner So I hope I figure it out. I have to use a stand mixer and never know if i am over or under kneading yet, but I always get shaggy dough no matter if I run the machine short or long. So many things can make a difference. This time I scored deeper than ever, the loaf is in the oven and has the best spring I got thus far. Seems I have to knead longer and score deeper... reminds me of something else...
If I get stronger dough then I could ferment longer? isnt that how the "tang" comes from, longer ferment??
Sorry I’m sure I”m just missing it. Are all flours you used un-bleached?
@Waffle Stack I had the same problem, BUT what I found out is that the problem in distribution is at the customer packaging level. All the commercial stuff is actually in a surplus. SO find a baker supplier and by a couple 25 or 50 pound bags and break them out into gallon baggies and throw them into the freezer. :) Kind of pricey but LOTS of availability.
It is, but I'd love to try out making it with bleached to see if what difference it makes :) We don't have bleached flour in Denmark though :)