I know this is late to the party, but just wanted to add some games that have given me some of my favorite narrative experiences: Unsettled, Oath, Gloomhaven: Jaws of the Lion, Twilight Imperium 4th Edition, Call to Adventure, Nemesis, and Fog of Love. Love the videos so far! (Going chronologically through them at the moment.) Thanks for doing this. :)
You'll find out in playtesting that players don't like to lose stuff because they tried something bold. Many players are risk averse, they will spend ages preparing themselves until the odds are well in their favor. Losing items/resources works in Robinson because you're in it together. I enjoyed your video again. I'd love to see you work out the actual rules of the game. That walkie-talkie mechanic smells like 4 pages of rulebook to me 😈. Great show!
Thanks for the comment, Jerome! I think you could be right about the risk aversion. Maybe that’s an area of focus for me to figure how to simulate the right amount of risk in performing dangerous actions. Hopefully players know they can mitigate that risk by gathering the necessary tokens (possibly even guaranteeing a successful ascension to the top if there are enough compass tokens). Rules, rules, rules... I’ll start soon!
Thanks for another excellent video. I really like that you are stripping down the rules in favor for narrativ and ”baking” them in to he simplistic hexes.
Woah, your production really deserves more attention, I was surprised to see your sub count. I'm rediscovering my passion for game design, and so I've stumbled upon this video. I'll definitely stick around and contribute to that sub count! Good luck with your game! Sounds like something my group of friends might be up for!
This is my first video of yours, and I dig it. I disagree with you on many points, I don’t think I’d enjoy your game, but you know how to pace a video and I could listen to you talk all day. I have two heavily narrative prototypes I’ve made, and I the people who’ve tried them love them. I’d love to show them to you. I don’t think your “minor inconvenience die” will work well with falling off cliffs, but prove me wrong.
Jonathan, I’ve actually changed my game quite a bit since posting this video. Honestly, you’re right about the dice roll for the ascension mechanic. I’m not even including a central mountain and ascension mechanics any more. Just not digging them. Hopefully, my next couple videos will give you a clear update on my current design. Thanks for the comment! Always glad to hear honest feedback.
Great series so far! If you haven't played Root yet, I highly suggest playing as the Vagabond. By the time you're done, you've created an entire narrative story with the things you chose to do. This doesn't happen as much with the other factions. I would guess because, one, you have a more personal experience with just one unit, and two, your interactions with other players are more than just "attack". You can trade with them, become allied with then, betray them and start attacking, etc.
Thanks Christian! Yea, I’ve played Root, but not with the vagabond character. Luckily, my friend and I will be playing Root with the new expansions soon. That’ll give us a good chance.
For heavy narrative I would look at games like Tainted Grail (which also has exploration) and This war of mine. For something lighter one may look at Everrains form of developing a narrative with character quirks and progressing sea events.
Everrain and DOW are good suggestions. I’ll make sure to check them out. I’m looking for ways to create “emergent narrative” or narrative-based gameplay emerging from mainly the mechanisms and player choices. Hopefully I can find more
Thank you George!!! I’ll keep working at it. Lots more to clarify. But I’m still feeling inspired from our convo yesterday. Thanks again for allowing me to join!
Vindication is a sandbox-y Euro game that uses hex tile exploration in it. I don't know too much about it cause I've never played, but it has an interesting theme and you might be able to find some inspirations there as well.
Thanks Aaron! This was a good reminder to check out Vindication. I haven’t played it either, but this is not the first time brought up how it’s a “sandboxy” hex tile exploration. Good suggestion!
I like you approach and style. Another game of hex exploration and adventure might be www.hiddenterritories.com - but that's more of a D&D-like RPG-meets-tabletop board game.
The most immersive narrative I’ve experienced was playing Legendary: Encounters (based on the Alien movies). It really feels like you’re on the ship fighting Aliens. Feels like you’re in the movie. You would have to see the movies before playing to fully appreciate it.
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So I've watched through all of your videos over the past few days, it's quite amazing how you keep up the quality and the atmosphere throughout them all! Looking forward to see more and to get my hands on that game some day! Speaking of games with narratives, Time Stories is a really narration-heavy game, that makes use of some quite unique mechanics to convey it (e.g. this: a card which tells you that once you turn it face up, you can only look at it for as long as you can hold your breath - to simulate diving down under water). Another great thing about that game is that it often is close to reality, in a way that you can be guided by your intuition - if a person *seems* to be lying, she probably is. If the game art depicts a person with good physique, he is probably dangerous to fight, and so on. And what I think is important here is to be consistent, to avoid giving players experiences that seem too random or contradicting to the game world as a whole.
Hey! I’m really liking your game idea so far. I think having rolls that empower the players and punishments that aren’t too harsh is a smart move, given the feeling of the great outdoors that you’re trying to accomplish in your game. The walkie-talkie mechanic where you decide to keep the mutual benefit or discard it is a great touch. Overall it feels like your theme is coming together. I don’t know if this is something you’d be interested in pursuing, but one of the things about going out hiking that really sticks with me is the sounds you hear. The sounds of animals native to the area you’ve not heard before or a nearby stream you can’t see yet, etc, or just how sound travels when you’re high up and there are no trees about. Maybe you could incorporate a mechanic that has a narrative string to it that implies what sounds you hear on the next tile over, or have something like a background soundtrack to put on while playing (where key events might trigger once the players here specific noises. Like in Escape the Curse of the Temple, but not stressful. :P) Just food for thought! Lastly, I’ll be honest that watching your channel has actually made me consider making one that’s similar, but I’m worried about stealing from you. I’m a complete amateur so was considering documenting my journey from super rookie hobbyist designer through to hopefully creating a print and play or kickstarter. I guess I’m sorta seeking your opinion on if you are comfortable with someone else starting a channel similar to your own, and I totally understand if not. In any case, love your work and am really looking forward to seeing where your game goes.
Your videos are awesome, I have to give you a lot of credit for the quality of your videos. It is not an easy thing to achieve and the information provided is also very helpful, keep up the good work!
Thank you so much! That means alot! I'm definitely working hard to bring higher quality videos to our boarding gaming community. Glad to know people are enjoying them. Hopefully I keep getting better! Cheers
There's a game that I've been on the fence on getting and it's the Hexplore series of games. In particular, the most recent one - the Sands of Shurax. Perhaps you can look into the differences with what you're going for in your game. Cheers!
loved the video! binging your channel which I just discovered an hour ago. for great narrative: I love how both Star Wars Outer Rim (and the Star Wars Unlock as well) put me right in the middle of the SW universe. great amounts of text in Outer Rim, but since the world is so familliar you just get SO EXCITED when you're playing Han and you got your hands on the Millennium Falcon. might be hard to design without an enormous Hollywood franchise behind your game though. another favourite is Tokaido. completely different, a bit like Parks in terms of movement, but you're constantly thinking of where you'd like to visit to complete your panorama, not because of the VP (ok, also because of the VP) but because you want that completed panorama, and some souvenirs to keep. there's no die, no cards to play, just a couple of coins you'd better hold on to so you can get your dinner at the end of the day. I love how every time I play it reminds me of my travels to Japan.
Emergent narrative is a real tough cookie to crack :) But sounds like you're figuring it out! If cards are going to be the main method of narrative delivery, you could think about adding certain flavour texts or something similar to the cards that create implicit narrative, or to emphasise the narrative you're building. Kind of like environmental storytelling in video games :) All this talk of hiking and exploration suddenly reminded me of a fantastic short PC game (2-4 hrs maybe?) about hiking, filled with exploration puzzles, you might be interested in checking out! Its called A Short Hike, a calm, cute and beautiful game about hiking up a mountain where you have to find feathers to increase your jumping and climbing abilities in order to make those steep climbs. I would describe it as Breath of the Wild meets Animal Crossing!
Natanel, thanks so much for the continued viewership!! Also, this is a great comment! Your suggestion about “implicit narrative” is a good way to understand what I’m trying to do. It even helps me understand it a bit more. I’ll check out that hiking game. Sounds cool!
I love 7th Continent & am excited to get my Parks KS. I also love Forgotten Waters which has hex map exploration & rich book & app-assisted narrative. I'm excited to continue to follow your journey as your game continues to take full shape.
Narrative, in my opinion, is so important in games. Take an abstract game like The Crew, which is just a trick taking game, cards that just have values, symbols, and colours. But they added a bit of narrative with the log book campaign you have to work through. It's a simple way to add narrative to an otherwise abstract game. So a game design like yours, that already has far more built in narrative, something like a log book or journal that players record their daily adventure. It could add to the narrative experience, and even be used as a mechanic to call back to. "If you did X within the last three days, than Y." I think it would fit into the theme of the game, logging your daily experiences on your wilderness adventure. When you were panning through your old games, I got so excited to see Thunder Road. I had both it and Dragon Lance. I have the fondest memories of Thunder Road, it was a fun game as a kid. No idea what happened to my copy, but it's a game I want again, and wish Restoration Games would redo. You seem a bit young to have bought the game at launch. :) Myself, I'm a bit older.
“The Crew” is the PERFECT example on how narrative adds incredible value to a game. Also, it’s telling how that trick taking game is making a run for Game of the Year. As far as the classic games, you’re right! 🙃 I’m too young to have played these when they came out, but when I came across them a couple years ago and found out how beautiful they’re presentation is as a vintage game, I had to pick them up for my collection. I think we owe SO MUCH to these games since they helped create the nostalgia we have for tabletop games. I’m glad you enjoyed seeing those and appreciated them. I sure do
I love your walkie talkie communication mechanism. The way you've presented it it seems more like a way to "benefit" from others without their consent which doesn't feel thematic to how a walkie talkie works. If i have a walkie talkie you're only getting information from me that I'm willing to offer. This could be a great place to instill a bit of meaningful interaction. If the mechanism represented a way to trade and leverage out the areas you're at advantage to gain from another's advantage. This could be implemented such that perhaps there is a trade ratio that a communication could activate. Find a ratio of resilience to compass ratio (and include any other "resources") that are available. Thematically this could be seen as Player A giving some navigational info to Player B i.e. compass value in exchange Player B shares a story from his adventure bestowing some resilience to Player A. This should self balance as players don't want to give up more than they get.
Speaking of design and uniqueness maybe you want to take a look at this newly found game called "Lagim Card Game". It's a strategic type of game wherein you need to defend your baryo against evil fiends. You may visit their FB page and website for more info.
Just came across this channel today and I’m hooked. Dead of Winter and Star Wars: imperial Assault come to mind when I think of board games high on the narrative element. Also Gloomhaven!
I've been similarly trying to create narrative in my own board game. Betrayal Legacy has a really fascinating narrative system. I'm not much for horror myself, but I was impressed by the unfolding narrative. The game is played in chapters and each chapter plays out differently based on what the players achieve and uncover (and what they don't). It did an amazing job with what I'd call "landmark moments" that felt like they changed the course of the game (and the story). At the beginning/end of a chapter, events played out narratively as a player would read from the book that came with it (based on choices made). Based on these same choices, some story arcs were never reached, leading to this feeling that your story was unique - which I loved. The big downfall of this kind of game, however, is that it's designed for a single play. Throughout play it instructs you to use stickers to claim an item for your family or destroy a card because that option is gone, etc. I like the idea that a game can be played repeatedly with countless results.
Wow Jesse! Your videos up to now make me want to design a game too, the gears are really turning! With every video you post, your game makes me think of Clank! Legacy: Acquisitions Incorporated. Boy I had fun with the narrative and the discovery of the map in that game! If yours is anything like where my imagination is taking me when I listen to you describing it, you have a first day buyer here!
Wow, thanks Alexandre! That's really encouraging! Like I said, I have a long road in front of me, but I think there's real potential hear. I just gotta find it. I'll also check Clank! Legacy. I didn't realize there was a strong map exploration in that game. Sounds like a good resource.
@@NewBoardGameDesign The map exploration in Clank! Legacy is not that strong for the discovery part. But, from game to game, you have some events placed on specific parts of the map where, if you get there on your turn, will allow you to unlock new pathways and new places that weren't on the game board before or new cards for the deck building part. Resolving these events often lead up to making you put stickers on the game board. Different decisions will lead you to different stickers, a set you keep and some others you end up trashing. When you finish the last game of the Campaign , you're left with a totally personalized board the evolved from the decisions you've made through the 10 or 11 games you played and can be used for your next typical Clank! games.
Awesome video again! I love the idea of risk and reward with the mountain. I think I always engage most with a game if I know I could lose the strength of my position by taking that risk. If I know everything's gonna be alright and all the work I've done is totally safe, then everything becomes a bit meh. There's nothing to be afraid of anymore. And I don't see why board games should terrify people :D A couple of games with Narrative come to mind and in many ways they couldn't be any more different than yours, but I'd say they all embrace the idea of exploration/discovery. I'm thinking Vast: The Mysterious Manor and (upcoming game) Oath: Chronicles of Empire and Exile by Leder Games. These games let you tell an incredible narrative, both in very different ways. With Vast, every player takes on a totally asymmetric role with a very specific mission. The inclusion or exclusion of certain characters then changes the story being told. One game, the story might be about the paladin rushing through this creepy house to find a giant spider and slay it, whilst avoiding shuffling skeletons. Another game, the skeletons might be turning on the Spider, whilst a sneaky little warlock skips between shadows casting spells and being mischievous. Giving each character asymmetric goals and methods, it makes it important which character is included, cos that changes how the story is told. With Oath...oh man. Oath is less about character asymmetry and more about choice asymmetry. All the characters (except one) start off the same pretty much. But the wealth of gameplay options open to you means that each player can run off and tell their own story. Wanna be a rebel an bring down the establishement? Great! Wanna submit to the Chancellor and work to succeed them at the end of their reign? Superb! Wanna have visions of the future and totally upend the entire world order? Cracking! Players can tell their own stories simply because there's so many options. And the way the game uses cards also tells stories. Cards represent different peoples, buildings and events that are placed at Sites in the world. Visiting those cards, exploiting them over the course of the game, how you choose to make use of these personalities, that tells a story about what kind of character you are too. Ok I'm done, for realsies.
Thanks so much for the comment, Joash!! I think you’re ABSOLUTELY right. The best ways to create narrative (especially in an exploration game) are give players lots of meaningful “options” or paths to find your own adventure. I don’t want players to be lost in their options, but I want them to feel the depth from the possible actions in front of them. Thanks again!
Cool video! Breaking up a part of a story in a few modular events and decisions could deliver great replayability. Fantasy Flight's Star Wars Rebellion is great with that. Almost every card has a different condition, drawback and outcome but on their own they aren't too hard to 'undo' for the opposite side. It's when you chain 2 or maybe 3 events that you create little arcs composed of several "story chunks". What I learned from this is that it could be a good idea to create such singled out events that could create a mesh of interactions. Example: "you learned to navigate by the stars" comes in handy on every location. Except when it's storming or it is night. A storm also has effect on navigating through certain terrains pr might damage your hut. A damaged hut might influence your sleep quality or disable an item.... and so on. Meshing these things together create narrative and you have the feeling you are part of the same world when playing it. Drawing out such a mesh/map isn't only a good brainstorm exercise for your narrative, it will make nodes appear that will have great opportunity of being important in your game whiem making sense being tied together. Did that make sense? I just came up with that myself, inspired by your video and I'll need to try this myself now :)
Great ideas! Seriously, it got me thinking about using stars more. What I’m a bit worried about is adding too many details to keep track of when navigating. I see my game as something fit to play in a cafe, a lite exploration game. The more details to keep track, the heavier and more complicated it gets. I just want players to have fun out in the mountains! Thanks again!
NewBoardGameDesign yeah “bookkeeping” is something tricky. Games Workshop tabletop games like warhammer etc feel like keeping the ledgers all the time. Using a few cards seems ok for me and the combinations of the cards create replayability. Items, conditions, abilities... as long as you don’t have to keep track of too many. Random events can keep it might but it’s a “cheaper” way to add flavour. It’s a smart thing to scope the scale, complexity and tablespace to “you should be able to play it in a pub”. I need to pay more attention to my scoping like that. I’m thinking of a system that keeps track of the alliances between factions but the bookkeeping is the biggest challenge there as well. I’m very curious how this will work out; good luck!
I don't really care if a similar game has been created before. We all sit on top of giants. For that walkie talkie using nav, the person helping the hiker should receive IOU markers (say karma tokens from the owner). It's unclear if the game will be coop or competitive or semi, or you want to postpone the decision. Don't cling too much on 7th con, look at Eila and chapter 3, the mines, that's how you make a replayable grid done right.
thanks for another great video. My son wants to know if you can trade walkie talkies for Takis in the game? The feeling you described is similar to the game, Island of El Dorado where you explore with hex tiles and at the end of the game we always want to take a picture of the map of the board we discovered. I kind of hope you don't find any tech stuff on adventure cards while in the wild. maybe you could come across someone that would trade you a manufactured item for some fossil or valuable mushrooms you found? You could start out at a shop where you have money to spend and maybe the weight of your supplies affects you somehow. maybe you could return to the shop? in the wild there could be other natural cool stuff to find that could help you to improve your abilities. it would be REALLY cool if you learned survival stuff in the game such as when we went on a hike with a native american and he told us of all the plants we thought of as weeds but were edible or had medicinal value. and there's gotta be wild animals.. one of my kids plays parks just to collect the wild animal meeples. best wishes. this kind of game sounds great for our family
Thanks for the comment! Tell your son I'll trade a walkie-talkie for a Taki any day! I think I came across Island of El Dorado a while back, but forgot all about it. I've never played it, but I see what you mean in the similarities. I also agree with your thought about finding tech out in the wild. Although I like the radio mechanic, maybe there are better ways for players to acquire items like that. Your story about the hike with a native american sounds amazing! My game could be a good opportunity for "survival" mechanics like your story. Although I'm trying not to make the game feel like a survival game, there could be "tricks" to the wild that players discover through the game, making their actions more efficient. Just a thought. Thanks again!
I know this is late to the party, but just wanted to add some games that have given me some of my favorite narrative experiences: Unsettled, Oath, Gloomhaven: Jaws of the Lion, Twilight Imperium 4th Edition, Call to Adventure, Nemesis, and Fog of Love.
Love the videos so far! (Going chronologically through them at the moment.) Thanks for doing this. :)
You'll find out in playtesting that players don't like to lose stuff because they tried something bold. Many players are risk averse, they will spend ages preparing themselves until the odds are well in their favor. Losing items/resources works in Robinson because you're in it together. I enjoyed your video again. I'd love to see you work out the actual rules of the game. That walkie-talkie mechanic smells like 4 pages of rulebook to me 😈.
Great show!
Thanks for the comment, Jerome! I think you could be right about the risk aversion. Maybe that’s an area of focus for me to figure how to simulate the right amount of risk in performing dangerous actions. Hopefully players know they can mitigate that risk by gathering the necessary tokens (possibly even guaranteeing a successful ascension to the top if there are enough compass tokens). Rules, rules, rules... I’ll start soon!
Having multiple paths to victory can allow players to play with the amount of risk they prefer.
I love Parks - and I am also a outdoors person. I hiked from Pen to Main on the AT when I was 13 :)
Thanks for another excellent video. I really like that you are stripping down the rules in favor for narrativ and ”baking” them in to he simplistic hexes.
Woah, your production really deserves more attention, I was surprised to see your sub count. I'm rediscovering my passion for game design, and so I've stumbled upon this video. I'll definitely stick around and contribute to that sub count!
Good luck with your game! Sounds like something my group of friends might be up for!
This is my first video of yours, and I dig it. I disagree with you on many points, I don’t think I’d enjoy your game, but you know how to pace a video and I could listen to you talk all day. I have two heavily narrative prototypes I’ve made, and I the people who’ve tried them love them. I’d love to show them to you. I don’t think your “minor inconvenience die” will work well with falling off cliffs, but prove me wrong.
Jonathan, I’ve actually changed my game quite a bit since posting this video. Honestly, you’re right about the dice roll for the ascension mechanic. I’m not even including a central mountain and ascension mechanics any more. Just not digging them. Hopefully, my next couple videos will give you a clear update on my current design. Thanks for the comment! Always glad to hear honest feedback.
Great series so far! If you haven't played Root yet, I highly suggest playing as the Vagabond. By the time you're done, you've created an entire narrative story with the things you chose to do. This doesn't happen as much with the other factions. I would guess because, one, you have a more personal experience with just one unit, and two, your interactions with other players are more than just "attack". You can trade with them, become allied with then, betray them and start attacking, etc.
Thanks Christian! Yea, I’ve played Root, but not with the vagabond character. Luckily, my friend and I will be playing Root with the new expansions soon. That’ll give us a good chance.
For heavy narrative I would look at games like Tainted Grail (which also has exploration) and This war of mine. For something lighter one may look at Everrains form of developing a narrative with character quirks and progressing sea events.
Great suggestions! I don’t know either of those well. I’ll look into them
NewBoardGameDesign everrain is not out yet, but a lot of details are shared in their updates about how it works.
NewBoardGameDesign dead of winters crossroads events might interested you. Those work really well in developing a story out from your actions.
Everrain and DOW are good suggestions. I’ll make sure to check them out. I’m looking for ways to create “emergent narrative” or narrative-based gameplay emerging from mainly the mechanisms and player choices. Hopefully I can find more
I have to say your videos are amazing and very inspiring. Great production. I'm excited to follow along and see what game you will make.
Another great video Jesse! Narrative is one of my favorite aspects in games, yet it seems one of the hardest to achieve! Keep up the great work! ☺️
Thank you George!!! I’ll keep working at it. Lots more to clarify. But I’m still feeling inspired from our convo yesterday. Thanks again for allowing me to join!
Awesome video! The mountains sound awesome! sound like they will create those memorable stories that I think all game designers want to create!
Thanks so much!
Great episode 4 - I am so proud of you :D - Keep it up!
I'm so excited to see this video. You are awesome
Vindication is a sandbox-y Euro game that uses hex tile exploration in it. I don't know too much about it cause I've never played, but it has an interesting theme and you might be able to find some inspirations there as well.
Thanks Aaron! This was a good reminder to check out Vindication. I haven’t played it either, but this is not the first time brought up how it’s a “sandboxy” hex tile exploration. Good suggestion!
i love the narrative history of Reichbusters and then heroic moments the game have for player feel like a real hero in the game and for you freinds
Thanks for the suggestion, Jose! I'll check it out.
I like you approach and style. Another game of hex exploration and adventure might be www.hiddenterritories.com - but that's more of a D&D-like RPG-meets-tabletop board game.
Thanks Tom! I’ll check out that game.
I love that you see parks action tiles as "linear". To me i really see it as a bit of rondell ( although it changes/grows on each of the revolutions).
Great stuff great quality. Really enjoying this content!!!!
Great stuff again, great looking video as well, as always.
Can't wait the next videos :)
Comments like these make me want to keep posting videos. So thanks!
This reminds me of Minecraft. It's been a whole year and nobody has mentioned Minecraft. It's a video game, but it's all about exploring.
I love these videos! Keep up the good work!
The most immersive narrative I’ve experienced was playing Legendary: Encounters (based on the Alien movies). It really feels like you’re on the ship fighting Aliens. Feels like you’re in the movie. You would have to see the movies before playing to fully appreciate it.
So I've watched through all of your videos over the past few days, it's quite amazing how you keep up the quality and the atmosphere throughout them all! Looking forward to see more and to get my hands on that game some day!
Speaking of games with narratives, Time Stories is a really narration-heavy game, that makes use of some quite unique mechanics to convey it (e.g. this: a card which tells you that once you turn it face up, you can only look at it for as long as you can hold your breath - to simulate diving down under water). Another great thing about that game is that it often is close to reality, in a way that you can be guided by your intuition - if a person *seems* to be lying, she probably is. If the game art depicts a person with good physique, he is probably dangerous to fight, and so on.
And what I think is important here is to be consistent, to avoid giving players experiences that seem too random or contradicting to the game world as a whole.
Hey! I’m really liking your game idea so far. I think having rolls that empower the players and punishments that aren’t too harsh is a smart move, given the feeling of the great outdoors that you’re trying to accomplish in your game. The walkie-talkie mechanic where you decide to keep the mutual benefit or discard it is a great touch. Overall it feels like your theme is coming together.
I don’t know if this is something you’d be interested in pursuing, but one of the things about going out hiking that really sticks with me is the sounds you hear. The sounds of animals native to the area you’ve not heard before or a nearby stream you can’t see yet, etc, or just how sound travels when you’re high up and there are no trees about. Maybe you could incorporate a mechanic that has a narrative string to it that implies what sounds you hear on the next tile over, or have something like a background soundtrack to put on while playing (where key events might trigger once the players here specific noises. Like in Escape the Curse of the Temple, but not stressful. :P) Just food for thought!
Lastly, I’ll be honest that watching your channel has actually made me consider making one that’s similar, but I’m worried about stealing from you. I’m a complete amateur so was considering documenting my journey from super rookie hobbyist designer through to hopefully creating a print and play or kickstarter. I guess I’m sorta seeking your opinion on if you are comfortable with someone else starting a channel similar to your own, and I totally understand if not.
In any case, love your work and am really looking forward to seeing where your game goes.
Your videos are awesome, I have to give you a lot of credit for the quality of your videos. It is not an easy thing to achieve and the information provided is also very helpful, keep up the good work!
Thank you so much! That means alot! I'm definitely working hard to bring higher quality videos to our boarding gaming community. Glad to know people are enjoying them. Hopefully I keep getting better! Cheers
My new fave channel.
Welcome!
There's a game that I've been on the fence on getting and it's the Hexplore series of games. In particular, the most recent one - the Sands of Shurax. Perhaps you can look into the differences with what you're going for in your game. Cheers!
Thanks so much for the suggestion! I've heard of those games, but I haven't looked into them yet. I'll do that now. Thanks!
loved the video! binging your channel which I just discovered an hour ago.
for great narrative: I love how both Star Wars Outer Rim (and the Star Wars Unlock as well) put me right in the middle of the SW universe. great amounts of text in Outer Rim, but since the world is so familliar you just get SO EXCITED when you're playing Han and you got your hands on the Millennium Falcon. might be hard to design without an enormous Hollywood franchise behind your game though.
another favourite is Tokaido. completely different, a bit like Parks in terms of movement, but you're constantly thinking of where you'd like to visit to complete your panorama, not because of the VP (ok, also because of the VP) but because you want that completed panorama, and some souvenirs to keep. there's no die, no cards to play, just a couple of coins you'd better hold on to so you can get your dinner at the end of the day. I love how every time I play it reminds me of my travels to Japan.
Emergent narrative is a real tough cookie to crack :) But sounds like you're figuring it out! If cards are going to be the main method of narrative delivery, you could think about adding certain flavour texts or something similar to the cards that create implicit narrative, or to emphasise the narrative you're building. Kind of like environmental storytelling in video games :)
All this talk of hiking and exploration suddenly reminded me of a fantastic short PC game (2-4 hrs maybe?) about hiking, filled with exploration puzzles, you might be interested in checking out! Its called A Short Hike, a calm, cute and beautiful game about hiking up a mountain where you have to find feathers to increase your jumping and climbing abilities in order to make those steep climbs. I would describe it as Breath of the Wild meets Animal Crossing!
Natanel, thanks so much for the continued viewership!! Also, this is a great comment! Your suggestion about “implicit narrative” is a good way to understand what I’m trying to do. It even helps me understand it a bit more. I’ll check out that hiking game. Sounds cool!
I love 7th Continent & am excited to get my Parks KS. I also love Forgotten Waters which has hex map exploration & rich book & app-assisted narrative. I'm excited to continue to follow your journey as your game continues to take full shape.
Billy, I still need to check out Forgotten Waters. I have it on my list! Thanks!
Narrative, in my opinion, is so important in games.
Take an abstract game like The Crew, which is just a trick taking game, cards that just have values, symbols, and colours. But they added a bit of narrative with the log book campaign you have to work through. It's a simple way to add narrative to an otherwise abstract game.
So a game design like yours, that already has far more built in narrative, something like a log book or journal that players record their daily adventure. It could add to the narrative experience, and even be used as a mechanic to call back to. "If you did X within the last three days, than Y." I think it would fit into the theme of the game, logging your daily experiences on your wilderness adventure.
When you were panning through your old games, I got so excited to see Thunder Road. I had both it and Dragon Lance. I have the fondest memories of Thunder Road, it was a fun game as a kid. No idea what happened to my copy, but it's a game I want again, and wish Restoration Games would redo. You seem a bit young to have bought the game at launch. :) Myself, I'm a bit older.
“The Crew” is the PERFECT example on how narrative adds incredible value to a game. Also, it’s telling how that trick taking game is making a run for Game of the Year.
As far as the classic games, you’re right! 🙃 I’m too young to have played these when they came out, but when I came across them a couple years ago and found out how beautiful they’re presentation is as a vintage game, I had to pick them up for my collection. I think we owe SO MUCH to these games since they helped create the nostalgia we have for tabletop games. I’m glad you enjoyed seeing those and appreciated them. I sure do
I love your walkie talkie communication mechanism. The way you've presented it it seems more like a way to "benefit" from others without their consent which doesn't feel thematic to how a walkie talkie works. If i have a walkie talkie you're only getting information from me that I'm willing to offer. This could be a great place to instill a bit of meaningful interaction. If the mechanism represented a way to trade and leverage out the areas you're at advantage to gain from another's advantage.
This could be implemented such that perhaps there is a trade ratio that a communication could activate. Find a ratio of resilience to compass ratio (and include any other "resources") that are available. Thematically this could be seen as Player A giving some navigational info to Player B i.e. compass value in exchange Player B shares a story from his adventure bestowing some resilience to Player A. This should self balance as players don't want to give up more than they get.
Checking in :)
Speaking of design and uniqueness maybe you want to take a look at this newly found game called "Lagim Card Game". It's a strategic type of game wherein you need to defend your baryo against evil fiends. You may visit their FB page and website for more info.
Just came across this channel today and I’m hooked. Dead of Winter and Star Wars: imperial Assault come to mind when I think of board games high on the narrative element. Also Gloomhaven!
Welcome aboard!
I've been similarly trying to create narrative in my own board game. Betrayal Legacy has a really fascinating narrative system. I'm not much for horror myself, but I was impressed by the unfolding narrative. The game is played in chapters and each chapter plays out differently based on what the players achieve and uncover (and what they don't). It did an amazing job with what I'd call "landmark moments" that felt like they changed the course of the game (and the story). At the beginning/end of a chapter, events played out narratively as a player would read from the book that came with it (based on choices made). Based on these same choices, some story arcs were never reached, leading to this feeling that your story was unique - which I loved. The big downfall of this kind of game, however, is that it's designed for a single play. Throughout play it instructs you to use stickers to claim an item for your family or destroy a card because that option is gone, etc. I like the idea that a game can be played repeatedly with countless results.
Thanks the comment and good reference, Nathan!
Wow Jesse! Your videos up to now make me want to design a game too, the gears are really turning!
With every video you post, your game makes me think of Clank! Legacy: Acquisitions Incorporated. Boy I had fun with the narrative and the discovery of the map in that game!
If yours is anything like where my imagination is taking me when I listen to you describing it, you have a first day buyer here!
Wow, thanks Alexandre! That's really encouraging! Like I said, I have a long road in front of me, but I think there's real potential hear. I just gotta find it. I'll also check Clank! Legacy. I didn't realize there was a strong map exploration in that game. Sounds like a good resource.
@@NewBoardGameDesign The map exploration in Clank! Legacy is not that strong for the discovery part. But, from game to game, you have some events placed on specific parts of the map where, if you get there on your turn, will allow you to unlock new pathways and new places that weren't on the game board before or new cards for the deck building part.
Resolving these events often lead up to making you put stickers on the game board. Different decisions will lead you to different stickers, a set you keep and some others you end up trashing.
When you finish the last game of the Campaign , you're left with a totally personalized board the evolved from the decisions you've made through the 10 or 11 games you played and can be used for your next typical Clank! games.
Awesome video again! I love the idea of risk and reward with the mountain. I think I always engage most with a game if I know I could lose the strength of my position by taking that risk. If I know everything's gonna be alright and all the work I've done is totally safe, then everything becomes a bit meh. There's nothing to be afraid of anymore. And I don't see why board games should terrify people :D
A couple of games with Narrative come to mind and in many ways they couldn't be any more different than yours, but I'd say they all embrace the idea of exploration/discovery. I'm thinking Vast: The Mysterious Manor and (upcoming game) Oath: Chronicles of Empire and Exile by Leder Games. These games let you tell an incredible narrative, both in very different ways. With Vast, every player takes on a totally asymmetric role with a very specific mission. The inclusion or exclusion of certain characters then changes the story being told. One game, the story might be about the paladin rushing through this creepy house to find a giant spider and slay it, whilst avoiding shuffling skeletons. Another game, the skeletons might be turning on the Spider, whilst a sneaky little warlock skips between shadows casting spells and being mischievous. Giving each character asymmetric goals and methods, it makes it important which character is included, cos that changes how the story is told.
With Oath...oh man. Oath is less about character asymmetry and more about choice asymmetry. All the characters (except one) start off the same pretty much. But the wealth of gameplay options open to you means that each player can run off and tell their own story. Wanna be a rebel an bring down the establishement? Great! Wanna submit to the Chancellor and work to succeed them at the end of their reign? Superb! Wanna have visions of the future and totally upend the entire world order? Cracking! Players can tell their own stories simply because there's so many options. And the way the game uses cards also tells stories. Cards represent different peoples, buildings and events that are placed at Sites in the world. Visiting those cards, exploiting them over the course of the game, how you choose to make use of these personalities, that tells a story about what kind of character you are too.
Ok I'm done, for realsies.
Thanks so much for the comment, Joash!! I think you’re ABSOLUTELY right. The best ways to create narrative (especially in an exploration game) are give players lots of meaningful “options” or paths to find your own adventure. I don’t want players to be lost in their options, but I want them to feel the depth from the possible actions in front of them. Thanks again!
When it comes to Narrative I love Mage Knight or Spirit Island for the path they can take based on decisions
Nemesis is a game that's great for creating stories and narrative. boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/167355/nemesis
Edward Norton....is that you?
Cool video! Breaking up a part of a story in a few modular events and decisions could deliver great replayability. Fantasy Flight's Star Wars Rebellion is great with that. Almost every card has a different condition, drawback and outcome but on their own they aren't too hard to 'undo' for the opposite side. It's when you chain 2 or maybe 3 events that you create little arcs composed of several "story chunks". What I learned from this is that it could be a good idea to create such singled out events that could create a mesh of interactions. Example: "you learned to navigate by the stars" comes in handy on every location. Except when it's storming or it is night. A storm also has effect on navigating through certain terrains pr might damage your hut. A damaged hut might influence your sleep quality or disable an item.... and so on. Meshing these things together create narrative and you have the feeling you are part of the same world when playing it. Drawing out such a mesh/map isn't only a good brainstorm exercise for your narrative, it will make nodes appear that will have great opportunity of being important in your game whiem making sense being tied together. Did that make sense? I just came up with that myself, inspired by your video and I'll need to try this myself now :)
Great ideas! Seriously, it got me thinking about using stars more. What I’m a bit worried about is adding too many details to keep track of when navigating. I see my game as something fit to play in a cafe, a lite exploration game. The more details to keep track, the heavier and more complicated it gets. I just want players to have fun out in the mountains! Thanks again!
NewBoardGameDesign yeah “bookkeeping” is something tricky. Games Workshop tabletop games like warhammer etc feel like keeping the ledgers all the time. Using a few cards seems ok for me and the combinations of the cards create replayability. Items, conditions, abilities... as long as you don’t have to keep track of too many. Random events can keep it might but it’s a “cheaper” way to add flavour. It’s a smart thing to scope the scale, complexity and tablespace to “you should be able to play it in a pub”. I need to pay more attention to my scoping like that. I’m thinking of a system that keeps track of the alliances between factions but the bookkeeping is the biggest challenge there as well. I’m very curious how this will work out; good luck!
I don't really care if a similar game has been created before. We all sit on top of giants.
For that walkie talkie using nav, the person helping the hiker should receive IOU markers (say karma tokens from the owner). It's unclear if the game will be coop or competitive or semi, or you want to postpone the decision.
Don't cling too much on 7th con, look at Eila and chapter 3, the mines, that's how you make a replayable grid done right.
This game currently includes too few ducks.
On it!
take Neuroshima Hex or Monolith Arena and try using their hexes for the demo hex map
thanks for another great video. My son wants to know if you can trade walkie talkies for Takis in the game? The feeling you described is similar to the game, Island of El Dorado where you explore with hex tiles and at the end of the game we always want to take a picture of the map of the board we discovered. I kind of hope you don't find any tech stuff on adventure cards while in the wild. maybe you could come across someone that would trade you a manufactured item for some fossil or valuable mushrooms you found? You could start out at a shop where you have money to spend and maybe the weight of your supplies affects you somehow. maybe you could return to the shop? in the wild there could be other natural cool stuff to find that could help you to improve your abilities. it would be REALLY cool if you learned survival stuff in the game such as when we went on a hike with a native american and he told us of all the plants we thought of as weeds but were edible or had medicinal value. and there's gotta be wild animals.. one of my kids plays parks just to collect the wild animal meeples. best wishes. this kind of game sounds great for our family
Thanks for the comment! Tell your son I'll trade a walkie-talkie for a Taki any day! I think I came across Island of El Dorado a while back, but forgot all about it. I've never played it, but I see what you mean in the similarities. I also agree with your thought about finding tech out in the wild. Although I like the radio mechanic, maybe there are better ways for players to acquire items like that. Your story about the hike with a native american sounds amazing! My game could be a good opportunity for "survival" mechanics like your story. Although I'm trying not to make the game feel like a survival game, there could be "tricks" to the wild that players discover through the game, making their actions more efficient. Just a thought. Thanks again!
you were not aware of Robinson Crusoe?
I guess I can start making my board game then
search for cardboardedison and Board Game Design Lab, it might be helpful for your project
Can you please put Theo in the next video? Asking for a friend. The friend is Theo.
Yes, I will. I promise.
I now hate the words "my game"....