Hello. I am an atheist. I define atheism as suspending any acknowledgment as to the reality of any particular god until sufficient credible evidence is presented. My position is that *_I currently have no good reason to acknowledge the reality of any god._* And here is why I currently hold to such a position. Below are 11 facts I must consider when evaluating the claim made by certain theists that a particular god exists in reality. To be clear, these are not premises for any argument which _concludes_ there to be no gods. These are simply facts I must take into account when evaluating the verity of such a claim. If any of the following facts were to be contravened at a later time by evidence, experience, or sound argument, I would THEN have good reason to acknowledge such a reality. 1. I have never been presented with a functional definition of a god. 2. I personally have never observed a god. 3. I have never encountered any person who has claimed to have observed a god. 4. I know of no accounts of persons claiming to have observed a god that were willing or able to demonstrate or verify their observation for authenticity, accuracy, or validity. 5. I have never been presented with any _valid_ logical argument, which also introduced demonstrably true premises that lead deductively to an inevitable conclusion that a god(s) exists in reality. 6. Of the many logical syllogisms I have examined arguing for the reality of a god(s), I have found all to contain a formal or informal logical fallacy or a premise that can not be demonstrated to be true. 7. I have never observed a phenomenon in which the existence of a god was a necessary antecedent for the known or probable explanation for the causation of that phenomenon. 8. Several proposed (and generally accepted) explanations for observable phenomena that were previously based on the agency of a god(s), have subsequently been replaced with rational, natural explanations, each substantiated with evidence that excluded the agency of a god(s). I have never encountered _vice versa._ 9. I have never knowingly experienced the presence of a god through intercession of angels, divine revelation, the miraculous act of divinity, or any occurrence of a supernatural event. 10. Every phenomenon that I have ever observed appears to have *_emerged_* from necessary and sufficient antecedents over time without exception. In other words, I have never observed a phenomenon (entity, process, object, event, process, substance, system, or being) that was created _ex nihilo_ - that is instantaneously came into existence by the solitary volition of a deity. 11. All claims of a supernatural or divine nature that I have been presented have either been refuted to my satisfaction or do not present as _falsifiable._ ALL of these facts lead me to the only rational conclusion that concurs with the realities I have been presented - and that is the fact that there is *_no good reason_* for me to acknowledge the reality of any particular god. I have heard often that atheism is the denial of the Abrahamic god. But denial is the active rejection of a substantiated fact once credible evidence has been presented. Atheism is simply withholding such acknowledgment until sufficient credible evidence is introduced. *_It is natural, rational, and prudent to be skeptical of unsubstantiated claims, especially extraordinary ones._* I welcome any cordial response. Peace.
Thank you for your thoughtful approach. I'll do my best to address the concerns you've raised by presenting evidence from the Quran, Hadith, and logical reasoning. I'll take your points one by one, aiming to clarify why belief in God (in Islam) is rational from the standpoint of theists, specifically Muslims. 1. Definition of God You mentioned that you have never been presented with a functional definition of God. In Islam, God (Allah) is defined clearly as the Creator of the heavens and the earth, who is eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, and beyond time and space. The Quran describes Allah as: - "Say, He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, nor is there to Him any equivalent." (Quran 112:1-4) This chapter (Surah Al-Ikhlas) succinctly defines God in Islam. The concept of God in Islam is not anthropomorphic, nor is it confined to human experiences, making God incomparable to anything observable. 2. Personal Observation of God You mention that you have never observed a god. In Islamic theology, God is not observable in the material sense, but His existence is inferred through His creation. The Quran invites humans to reflect on the natural world: - "Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding." (Quran 3:190) Muslim scholars often argue that God’s existence is evident through the intricate design and order in the universe, which points to an intelligent Creator. This follows the classical teleological argument (argument from design). The universe's complexity, balance, and fine-tuning are signs of an intelligent cause, which is consistent with belief in God. 3 & 4. No Observation or Verified Claims of Observing God While no one can physically observe God in this life, the Quran acknowledges that direct observation of God is beyond human capacity: - "Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted." (Quran 6:103) Prophets and messengers, however, claim to have received revelation from God. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) provided evidence of his prophethood through the Quran itself, which remains a living miracle in Islam. The Quran challenges skeptics to produce something similar if they doubt its divine origin: - "And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah (chapter) the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful." (Quran 2:23) The literary, linguistic, and prophetic aspects of the Quran have been argued as a continuous proof of its divine origin. 5. Logical Arguments for God's Existence The Quran itself provides arguments for God’s existence. One common argument used by Islamic scholars is the "argument from contingency." Everything in the universe is contingent, meaning it depends on something else for its existence. However, this chain of dependency cannot go on infinitely. Therefore, there must be a necessary being-one that is self-sufficient and does not depend on anything-who caused everything else. That necessary being is God. - "Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]?" (Quran 52:35) This verse questions the possibility of the universe’s self-existence or creation from nothing, implying the necessity of a Creator. 6. Logical Fallacies in Arguments for God While you may have encountered logical fallacies in some arguments for God’s existence, this does not invalidate the possibility of sound arguments. The philosophical underpinnings of the "Kalam Cosmological Argument," for instance, are well-regarded in Islamic philosophy. This argument posits: 1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause. 2. The universe began to exist. 3. Therefore, the universe has a cause. This cause, Muslims argue, is God, the Creator who exists outside time and space. 7. Necessity of God for Phenomena You mentioned that you've never observed a phenomenon for which God was necessary as an antecedent. However, Muslims believe that God is the ultimate cause behind all phenomena, even those explained by natural causes. These natural laws themselves are signs of God’s wisdom and power. The Quran states: - "It is He who created for you all that is on the earth." (Quran 2:29) The existence of natural laws points to a Lawgiver. Even if natural explanations exist for phenomena, this does not negate God but rather points to a consistent and orderly Creator. 8. Replacement of God with Natural Explanations The Quran encourages scientific inquiry and reflection on the natural world, but it teaches that the laws of nature are not independent of God-they are manifestations of His will. For instance, gravity or the orbits of planets are natural phenomena, but Islam teaches that they operate by the will of God: - "It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming." (Quran 36:40) God’s role as the Sustainer does not contradict the existence of natural causes but underpins them. 9. Personal Experience of God While some may not feel they've experienced God, others report profound personal experiences or signs of divine presence. The Quran acknowledges that guidance and spiritual experiences vary: - "Allah guides to His light whom He wills." (Quran 24:35) Muslims believe that sincere seeking and reflection can lead to experiencing divine guidance. 10. Creation ex nihilo Islam teaches that God created the universe from nothing: - "The Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is." (Quran 2:117) This idea is supported by modern cosmological theories that posit the universe had a beginning (the Big Bang), aligning with the belief in creation from nothing. 11. Falsifiability of Divine Claims Religious claims often involve metaphysical truths, which are beyond the realm of empirical falsifiability, similar to philosophical claims about abstract entities like morality or consciousness. However, Islam does invite people to intellectually and spiritually challenge its teachings through reflection, prayer, and exploration of the Quran. Your skepticism is understandable, but the Islamic worldview provides answers that are both intellectually and spiritually satisfying for millions of people. Islam encourages rational thought, reflection on creation, and a sincere search for truth. In fact, the Quran says: - "We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth." (Quran 41:53) If you are open to considering new perspectives, further exploration of the Quran, Islamic philosophy, and the experiences of those who believe could provide the "sufficient credible evidence" you're seeking. Peace to you as well.
Hello. I am an atheist. I define atheism as suspending any acknowledgment as to the reality of any particular god until sufficient credible evidence is presented. My position is that *_I currently have no good reason to acknowledge the reality of any god._*
And here is why I currently hold to such a position. Below are 11 facts I must consider when evaluating the claim made by certain theists that a particular god exists in reality. To be clear, these are not premises for any argument which _concludes_ there to be no gods. These are simply facts I must take into account when evaluating the verity of such a claim. If any of the following facts were to be contravened at a later time by evidence, experience, or sound argument, I would THEN have good reason to acknowledge such a reality.
1. I have never been presented with a functional definition of a god.
2. I personally have never observed a god.
3. I have never encountered any person who has claimed to have observed a god.
4. I know of no accounts of persons claiming to have observed a god that were willing or able to demonstrate or verify their observation for authenticity, accuracy, or validity.
5. I have never been presented with any _valid_ logical argument, which also introduced demonstrably true premises that lead deductively to an inevitable conclusion that a god(s) exists in reality.
6. Of the many logical syllogisms I have examined arguing for the reality of a god(s), I have found all to contain a formal or informal logical fallacy or a premise that can not be demonstrated to be true.
7. I have never observed a phenomenon in which the existence of a god was a necessary antecedent for the known or probable explanation for the causation of that phenomenon.
8. Several proposed (and generally accepted) explanations for observable phenomena that were previously based on the agency of a god(s), have subsequently been replaced with rational, natural explanations, each substantiated with evidence that excluded the agency of a god(s). I have never encountered _vice versa._
9. I have never knowingly experienced the presence of a god through intercession of angels, divine revelation, the miraculous act of divinity, or any occurrence of a supernatural event.
10. Every phenomenon that I have ever observed appears to have *_emerged_* from necessary and sufficient antecedents over time without exception. In other words, I have never observed a phenomenon (entity, process, object, event, process, substance, system, or being) that was created _ex nihilo_ - that is instantaneously came into existence by the solitary volition of a deity.
11. All claims of a supernatural or divine nature that I have been presented have either been refuted to my satisfaction or do not present as _falsifiable._
ALL of these facts lead me to the only rational conclusion that concurs with the realities I have been presented - and that is the fact that there is *_no good reason_* for me to acknowledge the reality of any particular god.
I have heard often that atheism is the denial of the Abrahamic god. But denial is the active rejection of a substantiated fact once credible evidence has been presented. Atheism is simply withholding such acknowledgment until sufficient credible evidence is introduced. *_It is natural, rational, and prudent to be skeptical of unsubstantiated claims, especially extraordinary ones._*
I welcome any cordial response. Peace.
Thank you for your thoughtful approach. I'll do my best to address the concerns you've raised by presenting evidence from the Quran, Hadith, and logical reasoning. I'll take your points one by one, aiming to clarify why belief in God (in Islam) is rational from the standpoint of theists, specifically Muslims.
1. Definition of God
You mentioned that you have never been presented with a functional definition of God. In Islam, God (Allah) is defined clearly as the Creator of the heavens and the earth, who is eternal, omniscient, omnipotent, and beyond time and space. The Quran describes Allah as:
- "Say, He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, nor is there to Him any equivalent." (Quran 112:1-4)
This chapter (Surah Al-Ikhlas) succinctly defines God in Islam. The concept of God in Islam is not anthropomorphic, nor is it confined to human experiences, making God incomparable to anything observable.
2. Personal Observation of God
You mention that you have never observed a god. In Islamic theology, God is not observable in the material sense, but His existence is inferred through His creation. The Quran invites humans to reflect on the natural world:
- "Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding." (Quran 3:190)
Muslim scholars often argue that God’s existence is evident through the intricate design and order in the universe, which points to an intelligent Creator. This follows the classical teleological argument (argument from design). The universe's complexity, balance, and fine-tuning are signs of an intelligent cause, which is consistent with belief in God.
3 & 4. No Observation or Verified Claims of Observing God
While no one can physically observe God in this life, the Quran acknowledges that direct observation of God is beyond human capacity:
- "Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted." (Quran 6:103)
Prophets and messengers, however, claim to have received revelation from God. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) provided evidence of his prophethood through the Quran itself, which remains a living miracle in Islam. The Quran challenges skeptics to produce something similar if they doubt its divine origin:
- "And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah (chapter) the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful." (Quran 2:23)
The literary, linguistic, and prophetic aspects of the Quran have been argued as a continuous proof of its divine origin.
5. Logical Arguments for God's Existence
The Quran itself provides arguments for God’s existence. One common argument used by Islamic scholars is the "argument from contingency." Everything in the universe is contingent, meaning it depends on something else for its existence. However, this chain of dependency cannot go on infinitely. Therefore, there must be a necessary being-one that is self-sufficient and does not depend on anything-who caused everything else. That necessary being is God.
- "Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]?" (Quran 52:35)
This verse questions the possibility of the universe’s self-existence or creation from nothing, implying the necessity of a Creator.
6. Logical Fallacies in Arguments for God
While you may have encountered logical fallacies in some arguments for God’s existence, this does not invalidate the possibility of sound arguments. The philosophical underpinnings of the "Kalam Cosmological Argument," for instance, are well-regarded in Islamic philosophy. This argument posits:
1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.
This cause, Muslims argue, is God, the Creator who exists outside time and space.
7. Necessity of God for Phenomena
You mentioned that you've never observed a phenomenon for which God was necessary as an antecedent. However, Muslims believe that God is the ultimate cause behind all phenomena, even those explained by natural causes. These natural laws themselves are signs of God’s wisdom and power. The Quran states:
- "It is He who created for you all that is on the earth." (Quran 2:29)
The existence of natural laws points to a Lawgiver. Even if natural explanations exist for phenomena, this does not negate God but rather points to a consistent and orderly Creator.
8. Replacement of God with Natural Explanations
The Quran encourages scientific inquiry and reflection on the natural world, but it teaches that the laws of nature are not independent of God-they are manifestations of His will. For instance, gravity or the orbits of planets are natural phenomena, but Islam teaches that they operate by the will of God:
- "It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming." (Quran 36:40)
God’s role as the Sustainer does not contradict the existence of natural causes but underpins them.
9. Personal Experience of God
While some may not feel they've experienced God, others report profound personal experiences or signs of divine presence. The Quran acknowledges that guidance and spiritual experiences vary:
- "Allah guides to His light whom He wills." (Quran 24:35)
Muslims believe that sincere seeking and reflection can lead to experiencing divine guidance.
10. Creation ex nihilo
Islam teaches that God created the universe from nothing:
- "The Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is." (Quran 2:117)
This idea is supported by modern cosmological theories that posit the universe had a beginning (the Big Bang), aligning with the belief in creation from nothing.
11. Falsifiability of Divine Claims
Religious claims often involve metaphysical truths, which are beyond the realm of empirical falsifiability, similar to philosophical claims about abstract entities like morality or consciousness. However, Islam does invite people to intellectually and spiritually challenge its teachings through reflection, prayer, and exploration of the Quran.
Your skepticism is understandable, but the Islamic worldview provides answers that are both intellectually and spiritually satisfying for millions of people. Islam encourages rational thought, reflection on creation, and a sincere search for truth. In fact, the Quran says:
- "We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth." (Quran 41:53)
If you are open to considering new perspectives, further exploration of the Quran, Islamic philosophy, and the experiences of those who believe could provide the "sufficient credible evidence" you're seeking.
Peace to you as well.
@FaithRecovery Thank you for your detailed, heartfelt, and cordial response. Are you willing to answer some questions concerning your comment?
@@Theo_Skeptomai you can ask them but I'll response to them whenever I'll get time or whenever I'm free
@FaithRecovery Of course. Take your time and answer when you can.
Have you ever _directly observed_ this 'Allah'?
@@Theo_Skeptomai have you ever face your wits?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
3 years old Rebecca 🤣 😭 😭 😭 😭 🤣 🤣 mental Mohammad Ali gave solid evidence that all Christian die in laughing
Just showing the good things about islam is very wrong.
can you highlight any wrong one?