I have owned four cars with this Triumph engine and all for a high mileage without any issues with the top end. I changed a head gasket on one car at 120,000 miles and the engine still looked like new in the bores. I normally run on 20W 50 oil. Pressure relief valve opens at 60-65psi normally. Spitfire merlin engines in WWII would run on about 4psi I'm told.
Hi Calvin, you've probably solved this by now. It looks like the rear most cylinder head stud is protruding too far and is stopping the rear pedestal from sealing properly. I think its mad that there isnt some sort of gasket fitted between the head and pedestal. Next time im rebuilding mine i think i'll fit one. Thanks for posting the video.
I think some of these parts require further machining after being shipped from the factory. I'm not sure what a gasket under the pedestal could cause, if they did not put them here, must be a reason. I used fine grit paper to remove the high outside edges, once flat, the two surfaces matted and sealed. I hear the newer high-end engines are machined requiring no gasket in some places.
@@dadcolo @ 3:43, you can see a little margin of oil around the base of the rear pedestal, none around the 3rd one, and if you check the rest of the video, only the rear has that little margin. Not sure if that's significant, if you were going to fit a gasket, would you need one for all four? maybe just machine for an o-ring on that one?
@@henrydedrick8482 A high spot holding the pedestal base off the head caused the oil to leak here. I wanted all the oil available to go into the rocker shaft to the rocker arms. I used fine sandpaper to remove the high spot on the pedestal base and the two mating surfaces closed the gap, stopped oil leaking out.
Calvin, your link seems to be to the wrong thread. Lack of oil to the valve rockers seems to be a long standing problem with these Triumph 4 and 6 cyl engine. I have often seen rocker and rocker shaft wear getting progressivly worse towards cyls 2 and 1 as the oil available has a hard time getting that far up the shaft. Auxiliary oil feed kits have been available for some time from companies like SAH (now Triumphtune) and Rimmer Bros. Unfortunately many of these kits supply far too much oil through an unrestricted oil lie from the oil gallery to the head. This can result (in extreme cases) in an inadequate oil supply to the crank and or too much oil flooding the head under the valve cover. My answer has been to fabricate my own aux oil feed line with a restriction that will supply just enough oil to the valv gear, but not excessive. the oil line I use is the type used for a grease gun flex hose with the end tapped to accept a replaceable drilled restriction plug. the correct Oil feed is determined by trial and error.
+Tony M,, Page 4 is when my rocker video posts, concerned with the low oil flow. Members suggested this flow was ok as it was, and the rocker assembly was a sacrafice to keep oil supply to the crank. I agree with you on the restricted oil line for some improvement. Another Triumph.com subject "oil pressure gauge" has more info, I connected a pressure gauge at the rear passage plug and found a 7-9 pound drop. Hot oil pressure there was down near 5 pounds at idle after running interstate speeds, and the tap at the distributor was reading about 20 pounds. I'm thinking of tapping in at the front corner of the block with another gauge, watch that pressure awhile, maybe pull some oil from there for the rocker assembly. Maybe use some 1/8th copper line, that would be a small amount, but if it fractures it's a bad result. Low pressure warning system, alarms, where does this end to be safe? I don't know. This link has more too, I have commented about fitting an oil cooler.. www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,1328081
Hi I have the same problem with my 1934 vauxhall. take a valve off of the rocker shaft and twist the rocker shaft so the oil hole lines through with the release hole on the tappets
Calvin, great video even this many years later. Any new info on oil pressure to rocker assembly? Am I to believe that this is normal spec and is no cause for concern? Thanks for your reply. Matt
Matt, I posted this video on the Spitfire forum for comments, that is what I'm told on the rocker assembly oil. It moves slower and requires less lube. Oil feed supply lines are sold to deliver more oil up there, but at the expense of the crank shaft oil supply dropping, where it it needed more, and costs more to replace when a bearing get's starved. This engine is about to turn 100,000 miles in 2021, without increasing rocker oil flow with the after market line.
Hi calvin,I'm assembling my 1500 spit at the moment,and the block/crank assembly is on the bench,the shell tub is still on the rotisserie,the chassis and running gear is 99% assembled,i have a particular interest in the cooling and oil flow videos you have made ,more than a year on now from this vid ,did you find the low oil feed problem,i have the external feed pipe kit from moss uk(i'm in scotland),though the car was taken to pieces after i bought a lot of new parts,the chassis had holes,i have slipped discs,so i bought a good s/h chassis,had it galvanised and painted it in yellow 2k paint for chassis,the oil issue is a worry though,i bought a dual row radiater,i have a oil cooler from a diesel leyland van and the thermostatic valve pancake for the oil filter,uprated relief valve for the over pressure relief feed to the head via the pipe feed kit,so i knew it have issues,but seeing the lack of flow here is not encouraging at all,thin shim gasket paper on the pedestals might stop leaks,but you need oil up there for it to work. So are you any further forward,did the oil passage drill out do the job. I hope to hear from you on this. Best of luck,tally ho.
This engine is 1950s design I'm told. The oiling system feeds the rocker through the camshaft's rear journal, having 2 flats that allow oil to push past as the camshaft rotates. The idea I suspect, is the rockers can easily be replaced so oil is better used on the lower parts of the engine. On the Spitfire>6 forums that external oil feed line to the back of the head for more oil to the rocker is an argument. It has been suggested having the camshaft re-machined to allow more oil to pass, but others argue that is not necessary, the rocker is getting all it needs, enlarging the opening takes away from the crank's needs. I'm happy not having that external oil feed line. Around 75,000 miles on this engine at rebuild, and the rocker shaft was showing only minimal wear, I replaced the shaft anyway. On days when the ambient is 98F I still have 40 psi oil pressure running down the interstate at 70mph. One thing I will add, on the next rebuild, I will have the block machined for bearings for the camshaft. This block has no cam bearings, and as the cam wears on the opening the oil escapes a bit more, so less oil continues up to the rocker assembly.
HEY CALVIN, I HOPE YOU GOT YOUR OIL PRESSUR & FLOW PROBLEM CORRECTED!? I DO KNOW THAT WIDENING JUST ANY OIL PASSAGE COULD REDUCE ITS PRESSURE! THOW, I AM NO EXPERT! ALL I KNOW IS, I HOPE U HAVE FOUND A WAY TO IMPROVE YOUR OIL ISSUE!!! IM WORKING ON MY 03 FOCUS 2.0 DOHC VIN 3 ZETEC & IT'S BEEN A HEADACHE SINCE I BOUGHT IT! ONE THING AFTER ANOTHER!!! I AM CHANGING MY MAIN & ROD BEARINGS & HAVE THEM ALL OUT EXCEPT THE UPPER HALF OF MY #3 MAIN BEARING/THRUST BEARING. ITS THE ONE WITH SIDE WALLS. IT STARTED TO COME OUT & STOPPED! THERE IS NO OIL HOLE ON THE CRANK JERNAL FOR THE THRUST BEARING SO I CANT INSTALL A SCREW OR CARTER PIN IN THE OIL PORT TO ASSIST IN ITS REMOVAL! ALL THE OTHER ONES HAVE A OIL PORT EXCEPT THAT ONE! I GAVE UP FOR THE NIGHT, ITS BELOW FREEZING OUTSIDE & 2AM, IT HAS ME BEAT, I TRIED A HOSE CLAMP & ONE OF THE OLD BEARINGS. ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!! HOPE YOU SOLVED YOUR OILING DELEMA!!!
The rocker pedestal at the front of the engine looked loose before you started to remove the rocker assembly. That might slow the flow of oi9l to the rocker shaft.
+Mike, All pieces are tight till 4:10 (see wrench) when I took the pressure off the pedestal nut at to let the oil pressure out. I was not sure if the pressure was high and spray to the ceiling or low. It was low and then I could remove the assembly to watch.
Wonder if this item would resolve your issue: www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RR1340 Thinking of buying it for my GT6 engine when i'm to rebuild it. Thanks for the video.
+Ulrik, I hear (about older engines) the unrestricted flow oil feed line can cause flooding of the assembly in the valve cover, and oil runs down the worn valve guides and the engine smokes. The extra line should not be used unless there is a restriction of the oil passage to the rocker assembly through the head, and the rockers woul be starving for oil. I am told the correct oil flow is actually low, and only lubricates the assembly, not spraying oil inside the cover. ? I want to remove the cover and run the engine at higher RPM to see if this is true for mine, till then I will be careful.
+Calvin G. Williams That sounds like a good idea, to do some tests before making any conclusions. But as you say in the video, the oil pressure is high despite the modification you do to the oil gallery. I'm looking forward to what the outcome will be.
I have owned four cars with this Triumph engine and all for a high mileage without any issues with the top end. I changed a head gasket on one car at 120,000 miles and the engine still looked like new in the bores. I normally run on 20W 50 oil. Pressure relief valve opens at 60-65psi normally. Spitfire merlin engines in WWII would run on about 4psi I'm told.
Hi Calvin, you've probably solved this by now. It looks like the rear most cylinder head stud is protruding too far and is stopping the rear pedestal from sealing properly. I think its mad that there isnt some sort of gasket fitted between the head and pedestal. Next time im rebuilding mine i think i'll fit one. Thanks for posting the video.
I think some of these parts require further machining after being shipped from the factory. I'm not sure what a gasket under the pedestal could cause, if they did not put them here, must be a reason. I used fine grit paper to remove the high outside edges, once flat, the two surfaces matted and sealed. I hear the newer high-end engines are machined requiring no gasket in some places.
@@dadcolo @ 3:43, you can see a little margin of oil around the base of the rear pedestal, none around the 3rd one, and if you check the rest of the video, only the rear has that little margin. Not sure if that's significant, if you were going to fit a gasket, would you need one for all four? maybe just machine for an o-ring on that one?
@@henrydedrick8482 A high spot holding the pedestal base off the head caused the oil to leak here. I wanted all the oil available to go into the rocker shaft to the rocker arms. I used fine sandpaper to remove the high spot on the pedestal base and the two mating surfaces closed the gap, stopped oil leaking out.
Calvin, your link seems to be to the wrong thread.
Lack of oil to the valve rockers seems to be a long standing problem with these Triumph 4 and 6 cyl engine. I have often seen rocker and rocker shaft wear getting progressivly worse towards cyls 2 and 1 as the oil available has a hard time getting that far up the shaft.
Auxiliary oil feed kits have been available for some time from companies like SAH (now Triumphtune) and Rimmer Bros. Unfortunately many of these kits supply far too much oil through an unrestricted oil lie from the oil gallery to the head.
This can result (in extreme cases) in an inadequate oil supply to the crank and or too much oil flooding the head under the valve cover. My answer has been to fabricate my own aux oil feed line with a restriction that will supply just enough oil to the valv
gear, but not excessive. the oil line I use is the type used for a grease gun flex hose with the end tapped to accept a replaceable drilled restriction plug. the correct Oil feed is determined by trial and error.
+Tony M,, Page 4 is when my rocker video posts, concerned with the low oil flow. Members suggested this flow was ok as it was, and the rocker assembly was a sacrafice to keep oil supply to the crank. I agree with you on the restricted oil line for some improvement. Another Triumph.com subject "oil pressure gauge" has more info, I connected a pressure gauge at the rear passage plug and found a 7-9 pound drop. Hot oil pressure there was down near 5 pounds at idle after running interstate speeds, and the tap at the distributor was reading about 20 pounds. I'm thinking of tapping in at the front corner of the block with another gauge, watch that pressure awhile, maybe pull some oil from there for the rocker assembly. Maybe use some 1/8th copper line, that would be a small amount, but if it fractures it's a bad result. Low pressure warning system, alarms, where does this end to be safe? I don't know. This link has more too, I have commented about fitting an oil cooler.. www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,1328081
Hi I have the same problem with my 1934 vauxhall. take a valve off of the rocker shaft and twist the rocker shaft so the oil hole lines through with the release hole on the tappets
Calvin, great video even this many years later. Any new info on oil pressure to rocker assembly? Am I to believe that this is normal spec and is no cause for concern? Thanks for your reply. Matt
Matt, I posted this video on the Spitfire forum for comments, that is what I'm told on the rocker assembly oil. It moves slower and requires less lube. Oil feed supply lines are sold to deliver more oil up there, but at the expense of the crank shaft oil supply dropping, where it it needed more, and costs more to replace when a bearing get's starved. This engine is about to turn 100,000 miles in 2021, without increasing rocker oil flow with the after market line.
Hi calvin,I'm assembling my 1500 spit at the moment,and the block/crank assembly is on the bench,the shell tub is still on the rotisserie,the chassis and running gear is 99% assembled,i have a particular interest in the cooling and oil flow videos you have made ,more than a year on now from this vid ,did you find the low oil feed problem,i have the external feed pipe kit from moss uk(i'm in scotland),though the car was taken to pieces after i bought a lot of new parts,the chassis had holes,i have slipped discs,so i bought a good s/h chassis,had it galvanised and painted it in yellow 2k paint for chassis,the oil issue is a worry though,i bought a dual row radiater,i have a oil cooler from a diesel leyland van and the thermostatic valve pancake for the oil filter,uprated relief valve for the over pressure relief feed to the head via the pipe feed kit,so i knew it have issues,but seeing the lack of flow here is not encouraging at all,thin shim gasket paper on the pedestals might stop leaks,but you need oil up there for it to work.
So are you any further forward,did the oil passage drill out do the job.
I hope to hear from you on this.
Best of luck,tally ho.
This engine is 1950s design I'm told. The oiling system feeds the rocker through the camshaft's rear journal, having 2 flats that allow oil to push past as the camshaft rotates. The idea I suspect, is the rockers can easily be replaced so oil is better used on the lower parts of the engine. On the Spitfire>6 forums that external oil feed line to the back of the head for more oil to the rocker is an argument. It has been suggested having the camshaft re-machined to allow more oil to pass, but others argue that is not necessary, the rocker is getting all it needs, enlarging the opening takes away from the crank's needs. I'm happy not having that external oil feed line. Around 75,000 miles on this engine at rebuild, and the rocker shaft was showing only minimal wear, I replaced the shaft anyway. On days when the ambient is 98F I still have 40 psi oil pressure running down the interstate at 70mph. One thing I will add, on the next rebuild, I will have the block machined for bearings for the camshaft. This block has no cam bearings, and as the cam wears on the opening the oil escapes a bit more, so less oil continues up to the rocker assembly.
HEY CALVIN, I HOPE YOU GOT YOUR OIL PRESSUR & FLOW PROBLEM CORRECTED!? I DO KNOW THAT WIDENING JUST ANY OIL PASSAGE COULD REDUCE ITS PRESSURE! THOW, I AM NO EXPERT! ALL I KNOW IS, I HOPE U HAVE FOUND A WAY TO IMPROVE YOUR OIL ISSUE!!! IM WORKING ON MY 03 FOCUS 2.0 DOHC VIN 3 ZETEC & IT'S BEEN A HEADACHE SINCE I BOUGHT IT! ONE THING AFTER ANOTHER!!! I AM CHANGING MY MAIN & ROD BEARINGS & HAVE THEM ALL OUT EXCEPT THE UPPER HALF OF MY #3 MAIN BEARING/THRUST BEARING. ITS THE ONE WITH SIDE WALLS. IT STARTED TO COME OUT & STOPPED! THERE IS NO OIL HOLE ON THE CRANK JERNAL FOR THE THRUST BEARING SO I CANT INSTALL A SCREW OR CARTER PIN IN THE OIL PORT TO ASSIST IN ITS REMOVAL! ALL THE OTHER ONES HAVE A OIL PORT EXCEPT THAT ONE! I GAVE UP FOR THE NIGHT, ITS BELOW FREEZING OUTSIDE & 2AM, IT HAS ME BEAT, I TRIED A HOSE CLAMP & ONE OF THE OLD BEARINGS. ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!! HOPE YOU SOLVED YOUR OILING DELEMA!!!
The rocker pedestal at the front of the engine looked loose before you started to remove the rocker assembly. That might slow the flow of oi9l to the rocker shaft.
+Mike, All pieces are tight till 4:10 (see wrench) when I took the pressure off the pedestal nut at to let the oil pressure out. I was not sure if the pressure was high and spray to the ceiling or low. It was low and then I could remove the assembly to watch.
www.triumphexp.com/phorum/read.php?8,1348167 has the discussion about oil flow and the extra oil feed line, reasons not to use it.
Wonder if this item would resolve your issue:
www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RR1340
Thinking of buying it for my GT6 engine when i'm to rebuild it.
Thanks for the video.
+Ulrik, I hear (about older engines) the unrestricted flow oil feed line can cause flooding of the assembly in the valve cover, and oil runs down the worn valve guides and the engine smokes. The extra line should not be used unless there is a restriction of the oil passage to the rocker assembly through the head, and the rockers woul be starving for oil. I am told the correct oil flow is actually low, and only lubricates the assembly, not spraying oil inside the cover. ? I want to remove the cover and run the engine at higher RPM to see if this is true for mine, till then I will be careful.
+Calvin G. Williams That sounds like a good idea, to do some tests before making any conclusions.
But as you say in the video, the oil pressure is high despite the modification you do to the oil gallery.
I'm looking forward to what the outcome will be.
I just rebuilt my 1500 spitfire and don’t see oil on top. Was this resolved for you? Curious on the fix.