Why are multiple cylinders better? - Part 1
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- One of the most frequent and oldest questions of the history of this channel - behold! - I'm getting through the old stuff - finally!
VIDEO SEARCH - the-workshop.net/
STICKERS here - www.redbubble....
T-SHIRTS/MUGS/HOODIES -teespring.com/...
Thanks to all my patreon subscribers. If you wanna help out go here -
/ workshop
Paypal link -
www.paypal.com...
Join me on facebook if you wanna ask question, all bike/engine related questions are welcome -
/ pony.power.395
I'm a single cylinder troglodyte so none of this makes sense to me, all I know is that a v8 motorcycle is horrific shit. I draw the line at 4.
inline-6 is fine for big touring bikes over 1600cc
Murdercycles have a problem trying to fit engines that stray too far away from fitting in a boxy shape. (At least sport bikes do since they NEED a certain centre of gravity and lean angle, other designs like cruisers , dirt bikes, adv ecc. have more leeway one way or the other but they arent FASTBOIS)
Boxers twins are balanced in secondary and primary forcess but are too wide.(lean angle DIMINISHED, bmw r18 cruser doesnt mind though and the gs1200 bmw is tall enough to hande it
Inline 6 al is too wide.
Big paralel twins would be too tall or imbalanced for a motorcycle frame
Inline 4 has balanced primary but very unbalanced secondary forces and requires counterweights to counter secondary forces
V twins are long back to front (harleys do fine with them because they are cruisers and are looongbois)
Or wide in motoguzzis case
V 4 engines are slightly disbalanced in primary and secondary forces but enginemounts , rider weight and a little counterweight usage will balance it BUT certain parts of (if i remember corectly the crankshaft) are under a lot of stress and have to be made of some well made material (forgings instead of castings ecc) to get the best possible performance out of it but generally a v4 is the best engine for bikes. Fits in a box more or less and isnt terribly disbalanced
V8 is basicali 2 inline 4 engines mated in a V and would make it longer then its supposed to be.
Motoguzzi did a v8 back when motorcycle tyres , suspention and frames were, still very wonky
So the tyres, suspention and frame just could not keep that thing behaving consistently in corners due to flexing , wobbling and loosing grip
The boss hoss v8 is a 5-6 liter monstrosity.
2 gears. First gets you to 100 miles per hour second takes you to infinity and beyond. But weighs a lot and is incredibly long
As you've professed your love for bicyclists a few times, I'm amazed you made it through the bicycle example without any shouting or frustration!
What a good analogy.
I have a short attention span and can only get halfway through this video.
But with my new way of looking at engine components I have a much better understanding of how a tiny controlled fuel explosion is converted into rotational force on our wheels/tires.
As someone who is brand new to actually trying to understand what's going on under my hood that allows me to take care of my daily needs; i gotta say, Internal combustion engines and mechanics in general really is fascinating.
There's two things I find really amazing about vehicles:
1.The way in which we turn small explosive energy into rotational wheel energy, with a lot of torque and HP
2.The way our alternator turns rotational energy (again energy that was converted from small explosions) into electrical energy that can be stored and used for later!
This stuff is really so crazy to learn about. I mean with enough knowledge you really could have electricity, fuel, and vehicles. Even in a some What apocalyptic scenario. The progress humanity has made in the last 200 years is truly amazing, and all this knowledge is easily accessible and understable right from your phone. More people need to make use of this knowledge
If you had a million cylinders you might as well get a jet engine!
Hi Matt, I've been binge watching your videos since I stumbled across the channel. You have a wonderful way of describing and illustrating engineering concepts, which is very easy to understand for the layman. I am no engineer, but have a very solid basic understanding, working as a mechanic. I find your videos both entertaining (Laughing your tits off at DelBollocks, along with everybody else, that bloke should not be allowed near machinery full stop!) and educational, as you're introducing me to engineering principles that are totally new to me. Keep up the good work and keep ranting at idiots, because it's priceless and great entertainment! 😂😂😂
tandem bike cranks are locked together. It makes them easier to ride but you can feel the twin power pulse
How does the power and torque curve compare 500cc single vs 500cc twin vs 500cc four ?
@ 5:17 is why I asked about the rg5oo's 2 up 2 down configuration. I've often used the bicycle example, where I say the knee is the piston, the shin is the con rod and the foot is the big end of the rod. rock on Matt.
Hi Matt,as your talking about engines, can you explain the ROTARY aeroplane engine from 1st world war (not the radial)👍
Very well explained Matt and all makes perfect sense, thanks for taking the time to explain this, your a Legend!
That pedal thing is awesome I just broke a pedal today and it is so hard to pedal with one you have to pick it up when it is down you have avesome explinations.
Great explaination Matt, this is Gold! - More cylinders = More smooth (closer to continuous) torque delivery!
You are the coolest and best teacher!
There are some situations where one cylinder is better than mutiple.
eg. Trail bike. All the front running trail bikes have only one cylinder. This is because in the dirt with limited traction, an 'uneven' power supply allows better traction - the tyre gets a chance to 'dig in' to the road/track surface between power pulses.
"We're really going to dumb this down" I hope so, you're a clever lad, sometimes it's hard to keep up (most of the time!).
If only the British motorcycle industry had understood how important this was.😱👍🚲 360° crank throws being so silly.
Great analogy of how the torque is delivered in single vs multiple cylinder engines, nice vid as always :)
just watched good video and as for tandems the pedals are in sinc not at 90%
Thank you Dr. Matt! Not only did you explain engine design with clarity, but also the reason everyone should pay attention in math / physics class!! If anyone ever calls you an "egghead" please take it as a moniker of achievement and tell all those who fling it at you with derisiveness to just fuck off. (I'm sure that won't be a problem with you at all.) [I'm talking to you Mitch Daniels] ; )
Can you answer why engines with more cylinders generally have flatter torque curves in the next part please?
maybe you should watch this video very carefully and you'll get your answer, look hard at the picture he draws of the 4 cylinder cycle....
I don't see how that's relevant, that should just make the power smoother at any given rpm, not neccessarily increase the area under the graph.
Engines with more cylinders don't make there max torque till there very high in the rpm range effectively there making less torque until then i guess that means it's flatter. Because where a 2 cylinder could make good torque @ 5k a 4 cylinder might have to be @ 10k
I had heard that Harleys intentionally have an asymmetric firing Is this correct, and if so, why would such a design be made?
Michael Jeffers so all the chrome shakes at the stoplights, and your hands get arthritis every single ride.
More cylinders = more power = bigger smile :)
Swedish hillbilly more power at high rpm more torque at high rpm and much higher rpm's. Not many singles or twins rev to 18,000rpm
More hp, less torque...
what would be the threshold for # of cylinders vs. the friction and rotational mass losses? just thinking if a grid of really small cans can actually produce power, like a 4x9 bank firing at 10deg apart
Hi Mat, please help!! Just changed the oil and found your typical minute shavings on the magnetic sump nut but I found a bit of metal that seemed bigger then normal. Should I be concerned? How big do pieces of metal need to be to raise concern?
That big. Your concerned so itssomething to be concerned about. Tiny particles are one thing - bits are another. Can you send me a picture?
The Workshop no photo, around 1mm cubed or a little bigger. Enough to see it in the oil pan . Sharp as well ?
Well is it steel?
The Workshop yeah, Felt like a granule of glass
Genius explanation.
Thank you this is great, i cant wait for more of these, as in series, videos cheers
I've already watched this video and yet I'm back again... Damn click bait, what man can resist a pair of exposed cams??
Thank you so much for these videos.
tandem Crankset lineup I've tried the cranksets like your diagram in theory should be better but on a push bike you need to push off together both of you. as well if you put the cranks that's like your diagram your balance is affected because one person is Leaning one side the bike and the other person is leading the other way
But in the 90s in the 500cc Grand Prix bikes they applied the “big bang” firing order which fired all cylinders within 70 degrees from each other. They said it made grip on acceleration better and that it made the bikes more rideable. However the switched back to the regular firing order in the late 90s
and now many of them are back to big-bang
Your confusing 'v' angle with cranking torque. The YZR for example went from 60 to 70 - then to 75 then back to 70deg.
Not only that but don't confuse firing order with crank degrees - "“big bang” firing order which fired all cylinders within 70 degrees from each other."
- with 4 cylinder, even with a 2 stroke this is impossible. What you meant was the because of the 70deg V then the firing sequence was 70deg apart. But you can't divide 360deg into 70deg intervals.
"and now many of them are back to big-bang"
it depends what you mean - there's a difference between 'big bang' firing orders and crossplane crankshaft.
it is not the same but kinda related since only some combinations can give you even firing
Really enjoyed the vid learnt something.....I think !
the real high end stuff have elliptical crank gears now! they still get i the fucking way!
Love BMX and love Physics. Good video
There is one more advantage for more cylinders at same displacement : more valves so more area available to flow more air in faster at higher rpm. And the limit of number of cylinders depends on displacement and mass of moving parts.
What’s wrong with the V engines then? A v8 is then like a inline 4 with with 90 degree x 2. Or also close to a 2 stroke inline 4.
So why do bikes like the Yamaha MT07 and Nuda 900r have a 270 degree crank but they are both inline twins? surly in theory they will not be as smooth In power delivery and vibrations, I own an MT07 and i can confirm that the engine is very smooth, do they have balance shafts or something?
I'm not 100% sure but i think it might be to make the bikes sound the way they do. Everybody who likes bikes remembers how a nuda sounds. And it sound fucking amazing. It could also be to make the bike feel more aggresive and raw because of the vibrations. Which is pretty much what this bike was designed to be.
@ chris critchley....."surly in theory they will not be as smooth In power delivery and vibrations" that's exactly why they have 270deg cranks, to make them feel like a V-twin with a bit of character..... Also Nuda is 315deg crank not 270deg like MT-07, africa twin, thruxton and KTM's 790 has a 75deg crank which makes it feel like their V-twins.
MrKdr500 very interesting. Thanks :)
Nuda makes a lot of power for a 900cc twin the f800 makes some bad vibrations it's only made worse with higher revs more power and more cc. The africa twin 1000cc revs much lower.
3. It makes your engine super slippy!!;)
Seriously though Matt, it also reduces the need for a heavy flywheel to maintain momentum and bring that single piston back up to TDC where the expansion caused by the EXPLOSION can send it back down again. Thus there's less inertia in the crank, and also less mass and therefore less weight in the bits that move.
hence why there's more videos to come.
I live in the Netherlands 🇳🇱 and i've seen some tandems lol. And they don't have the "4 cilinder layout" for some reason.
Trotsetukker that actually makes sense
can you explain how do engines rev up and down?
throttle son.....simple.
I dunno man. Fuck all this silky smooth torque delivery. Just go single cylinder 2-liter turbo compound engine!
Where is the girl ?? Showed on thumbnail lol
On a push iron you pedal in circles (cycle to work & drive a van (white)... good job I don't have to be popular). Difficult analogy i know, but it's saturday night & I'm drinking.
Horses for courses.
If you like "A" roads & motorways (Highways & interstates), then yes, an inline 4.
If you like "B" roads & uncategorised (twisties) then a big single might be better (similar positives to a BIG BANG 2stroke without the complexity)
more cylinders less mass on the flywheel+smoother runing...i think v12s flywheel is there only to hold the gear ring for the starter+clutch surface.
Tandem has a freewheel. So you can choose to pedal stance.
All I can hear is the washing machine lol
two stroke single cylinder are not lumpy at all when running when on the road
Depends what you mean by lumpy
I bet you have to time the cranks on the tandem not at every 180 degrees otherwise could induce wheelspin
the goodies had three on a bike ' very smooth torque curve if chainsets were set effective
hey matt!! tandems are synced youd lie every corner if they werent and thatd be even less efficient i guess
Seems like tandems are in sync based on google images lol
They are, but not because everyone that makes them is an idiot but because there are legs involved in the movement and if they weren't in sync your legs would interfere with the other person's legs.
Yea, I assumed they're in sync for a reason
I'v ridden a tandem and its not so much the riders legs interfering with each other, although that could happen but its more to do with the riders body movements needing to be in sync. If they weren't the bike would end up weaving about uncontrollably.
I was thinking it was because it would equalize the difference in torque between cylinders..by adding them together instead of an adult/kid tandem bike where the two middle cylinders would be making 1/2 the torque?
The balance thing seems likely but you'd think having the riders in phase would actually increase weaving, such that the best option would actually be to have the power stroke opposite; the front riders right foot goes down as the back riders left goes down.
The first debate about synchronized vs 90° out of phase just comes back to the old horsepower debacle. Whether the riders are in phase or 90° out of phase, the net horsepower should be the exact same. Total peak crank Torque will be less (about half) in the 90° offset case.
If you could overlay the torque/angle bellcurve such as a 3 phase AC current, it could be also possible to see that average torque and therefore horsepower, is higher in the 90° offset application.
This is fun to talk about, no worries.
An analogy with the pistons might be like taking a Dog for a walk on the lead and its sees a Cat.The force applied to your arm is a lot less for a chiwawa than for a bull mastiff. LOL
Andi Archer but what one is faster. More like a elephant vs a cheatta torque vs hp
Im referring to the strain put on the arm stopping at tdc by the larger piston weight compared to the smaller piston.You could have half a dozen Cats go by with a chiwawa without issue but put a Mastiff on the lead well thats another story
Andi Archer big singles are under a lot of strain a 650cc single probably causes more problems than it solves. Not great on fuel not great on power most of the time is as heavy as a 500 twin. I think after 400cc maybe 450cc making a single much bigger really does not work. A dr650 is not much faster than a drz400 if at all even if they both had water cooling
Every bike single or twin has it advantages and disadvantages and lovers ot haters of both.As for MPG its around 56-60 on my DR650 and if memory serves around the same or less for the DRZ400.Water cooling isnt really a requirement on the DR650 it runs cool enough without and there would be no advantage gained for the extra weight.
Andi Archer i only mentioned water cooling if someone was going to say the dr650 vs drz400 are not comparable because of it. Shame you can't start with a single and then gain extra cylinders when you need the extra power speed and high rpm's
so why is it they all wanted 60 degree....
Why don't we have carbon fibre used for pistons if being light weight is the main objective? I know they are expensive but in high cost supercars like a Lamborghini for example, wouldn't it be the perfect material?
The epoxy holding the carbon fibers together cannot withstand the heat. Additionally, even if they could the carbon fiber piston would have very poor thermal conductivity which would result in higher combustion chamber temps=lower compression to avoid pre ignition=less efficient and less power.
I can see what you're saying, but wouldn't a 500cc single have more torque than a 4 cylinder 500cc engine
LOL what? Do you mean peak torque - then to generalise then yes but peak torque isn't continious torque.
XT600E (2001) - torque 50Nm @ 5,000rpm
GSXR600 (2001) - torque 69Nm @ 10,800rpm
Notice the rpm increase. Lower weight lower forces - higher rpm.
You're right I was just thinking of low down torque, I get what you're saying now. Thanks
As a human the XT "feels" like it has more torque..thats
one of the reasons I like thumpers :)
Gear the XT to have the same top speed as the GSXR then tell me it feels to have more torque....
Real men ride twins
WickedTRX only need a 4 cylinder if you want huge power at high rpm and much less power low down. I don't
as far as i understand, bigger piston give the rings a hard time. So better have the same cc in multiple cylinders!
Nice pic dear...
more cylinders more speed yes?
Tandem bikes are not set up like that, I think balance is more important than even power distribution (on tandem bikes).
LOL well how inefficient of them LOL
my tandem is set up with the cranks out of phase. The reason that most tandems are set with cranks in phase is it is easier to start out. And is better for a sprint.
Is it that We wouldn't want the tail end Charlie breathing in the exhaust gas of the front end Archibald, so in phase power strokes preferred?
sorry I don't agree. I'm a die hard two fucking big cylinders V-twin Harley dude!
The tandem bike on your picture is not the way it should be... just saying. I think they are all not how they should be.
tandembikes are usually not like that neither are 4 cylinders!
KTM RC 390 vs. Kawasaki Ninja 400. The KTM is single cylinder, Kawasaki is dual. The Kawasaki has a fair bit more power
The old 250cc inline 4's flog them all in power output (just) and frame/suspension/braking... I'd love a new 250 or 400 4 cyl with fully adjustable suspension, dual disk front etc but no one is making them...
RC390 is only a 370cc motor so it's also down 30cc on the Ninja.
MrKdr500 is 30cc worth 5HP?
I will note the KTM has A TON more torque before it redlines
phillip galas yes! 30cc is almost 10% of the engine size.
Not that they sound "super" sexie then ???
th-cam.com/video/o57JwibqCb8/w-d-xo.html
Yea 2 stroke just to get you back to the smokie side Matt xx
So your saying a 16 cylinders is better than 8 cylinders?
In theory yes.
The Workshop because of the smooth toqre?
Balance, torque, even firing, less damping required, inherent rotational moment. But there are cons as well. Higher part count, tortional stresses on the crank which equate to harmonic oscillations etc etc etc.
This is why VW opted for the W16. Shorter crank more cylinders.
The Workshop more parts make it last longer right?
first :P
@stonecoldmurphy damn
Not this guy again!!!! BORING!! Who was your click bait; your sister!
you just need to skip this video or just leave, it's easier LOL