Watcher: Why Prioritizing Profit At All Costs Betrays Fans
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- In this intriguing video, we delve into the controversial decision made by the founders of Watcher, a TH-cam channel known for its high-quality content. We examine how their announcement of a new subscription service sparked outrage among their loyal fanbase and how a psychological concept of reactance played a key role in shaping viewers' reactions. Explore the backstory of Watcher's inception and how their departure from Buzzfeed led to a unique mission and company culture.
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I hate when TH-camrs or influencers say “I’m doing this for you” as if they are doing us a favor when we pay for subscriptions, ads, etc…
But I made this video specifically for you, Phd366!
True! And it's not even like they asked us what we wanted in the first place. If a content creator asks and the majority of their audience says "yes! Please put your content behind a paywall!" Then fine.. but they didn't.
i mean if its vlog style they really are doing you a favor. you like to watch their life and ideas? thats why piracy laws exist. you must be young.
@@CrustyUggnobody cares to ask you bc you click regardless. you are a watcher. they are creators. until you live that life idk if you’ll every really ‘get’ it. 🤷🏾♂️
like Donna said, she made this for us without us asking. a lot of work goes into this. so, if youre JUST a watcher, stfu really.
@@NeapolitanDynamite1 The reality of the situation is watcher drastically financially mismanaged their business, and that is what came to light here. Somebody in the comment section pointed ou they use a 20K camera, that even tv stations wouldn't buy, because it's originally for feature films. I supported them on patreon, I have the 6 USD, but i am not going to flush money down the toilet when the watcher channel is so blatantly poorly managed. GroovyGavin is a youtube channel who does paranormal content, it's him and his 2 friends, he travels all around the world, ON location, great production value, only 700K subs. he has my money now because I know he'll make good use of it. It's terrible business sense to take your subscribers for granted and tell them to stfu, because it's very easy to do so. It's very easy to not watch a channel anymore, It's very easy to unsub from patreon.
at its core no one asked for "higher quality" content from them. Better cameras, more staff, and bigger payday for the boys doesn't cover up that they've been putting out the same content they did on BuzzFeed in higher resolution.
Its true, no one asked. But what if thats what they WANT to do? Dont they have the right to do so?
they certainly have the right to do so. and their audience certainly has the right to let the people behind watcher know that they dislike this decision and refuse to follow them further on their "content journey."
@@proudtiger2538thats quite a way to distort the common response people are having over this. It was not just letting them know they dont want higher quality. The common tone is “how dare you betray your fanbase by asking us to pay for the content after the SUPPORT we gave you??”
People are acting as if they did these guys a favor!! When in reality, they made content they wanted to make, you consumed it (for free) bc you thought it was good and chose to do so. Its an exchange, not charity. You get the entertainment, they get to make a living. No one is in debt with anyone here. Its simple. It only gets complicated when people get all parasocial about. And sure. The creators will encourage that to a degree that benefits them (bc “thank you for the support guys, we love YOU and we want to make the content for YOU!” sounds better than “you get the entertainment, we get to make a living”), but the fault is not entirely on them. Also, its 2024, people should know by now that this type of relationship is one sided.
In my opinion, their mistake was the tone they chose for the goodbye video, bc it was contradicting with what they were saying. It was basically a tapping into the parasocial relationship to convince people to follow them and at the same time letting those fans know that the exchange was no longer going to be free for them. And thats a tough pill to swallow. So yeah, it did sound manipulative and patronizing. Bad move.
But that’s completely different from wanting to make better content and wanting to get paid better. And they are not wrong for that and they certainly are not “betraying” anyone. You didn’t do them any favors, you just think you do bc you were deep into a parasocial relationship and didn’t even notice it. And thats why you resort to such emotionally charged responses such as calling them greedy and ungrateful.
@@proudtiger2538 They definitely do have a right to state their dislikes; it is simply part of the business to listen to the people who consume the product. I also think people are taking this way too personally though (and I am an avid Watcher viewer). It was definitely a series of bad business decisions, including bad PR, but to call them greedy or place moral failures on them is a stretch, in my personal opinion. Then again, parasocial relationships is part of the social media business. They tried to utilize that and it bit them in the ass. I just wish everyone involved would be more aware that they’re being parasocial. It’s kinda creepy that this is how we operate as a society now. I know that’s wishful thinking, but that’s just my opinion on the whole thing 🤷
Edit to add: I am not defending their decisions. There ain’t no way I was ever paying for the streaming service as a single unemployed mother lmao. If you choose not to watch them anymore, do so; it’ll hopefully teach them a PR lesson. Sucks for their employees but that’s how it goes. I on the other hand, will eat up the free content they will have and I do have to say, thanks to those that did complain lol! Tbh even if they left, there’s loads of other channels I enjoy on TH-cam.
@@proudtiger2538don't be mad because they have ambition and you don't
My partner is a videographer and one thing he noticed during the original announcement video is that Watcher's camera man was wearing the MOST EXPENSIVE steadicam model currently available on the market. It cost upwards of $20,000 dollars. He said 'That truly isn't necessary, those are for feature films and would be an utter waste of money even for a TV show'. Meaning they are spending more than what a network TV show would be paying for that model'. I am part of a much smaller production company so although I don't know the extent of the financial operation, I do know how to cut costs on material (But not salary) while still maintaining high quality content. They chose not to do that.
OMG I work in film and I noticed this too I was like WHAT? The audacity to pretend you need this. DPs+ Directors have to make such a case to production for how to spend budget. It's possible they hired the steadicam operator with his own gear at a day rate but still expensive and unnecessary.
@@gabbydadgostar2234 They think they're a lot bigger than they actually are, and they are trying to milk their audience to sustain their Hollywood delusion.
I knew something was off when I read that they make "TV-caliber" content on their "about" page. (This was before the "big announcement".) No one watches them for "TV-caliber" content. They watch them for the personalities and chemistry.
You make an excellent point about overspending on equipment. You can do what you need with a lot less and still make great content.
What I noticed was Steven's background in their "We're leaving YT" video. That kitchen is in a REALLY expensive house. A house with a kitchen like that in LA is going to cost at least $5-8 million. If he can afford a house like that, then maybe he is spending over his head on that too. He also drives a Tesla. Shane and Sara had a wedding where just the venue cost $55,000 and she wore three different outfits. The entire event likely cost at least $150,000. The watches that all three of them were wearing are super expensive models. They are all living lavishly in LA, where just leading a standard middle-class existence is very expensive.
If they can afford to spend money like fat-cats, then I don't have a lot of sympathy for their "plight".
@@pattierotondo1108 Their "plight" is that their egos and lifestyles outgrew their channel.
Not defending the nature of their actions and obviously terrible spending outside of work, but spending that much on cameras is not uncommon for large TH-cam channels. In 2017 Linus Tech Tips made the switch to RED Brand 8k cameras to stay ahead on quality. Each camera cost $50,000 ($63,960 in 2024)
It was this situation that made me realize how parasocial I was with Watcher. Maybe it was best we broke up...
In my case, i used to watch them on buzzfeed, and I didn't keep up with them once they parted ways. This year, probably only a month before this mess I started watching them again 🙃 maybe I caused it, sorry guys 😂
yeah tbh this is what this whole situation is exposing to me . i’ve never been a huge watcher fan but AM a big try guys person, so i feel similarly about following content creators, but find it odd how emotional/personally offended the longtime watchers of the boys are by this. in my opinion, they made a shitty business decision based not just on greed (partially), but also just on ignorance. i rly don’t think it was about betrayal or hating their entire fanbase lol .
well they do rely on ppl's parasocial relationship. i dont think it's ur fault.
Thank god someone else agrees. I think they’re stupid but if they wanted to be money hungry they would’ve monetized everything day one. The hype was the biggest when they announced the channel, so why wouldn’t they make everything pay to watch there?
You watched BuzzFeed?!
Look... Shane bought himself a Tesla car. His wedding venue alone was 50.000$ and his bride had 3 wedding gowns. She brags on her instagram that she buys 100$ tote bags. They have more than enough money for any projects they want... but everything came too easy for them and now they're spoiled. They spend money like water so now they're broke and think their loyal and adoring fans won't mind footing their bill. His wife even said on her tumblr that they need more money so they can have livable wages. Let them fall and find themselves a day job for once.
yea I honestly wonder what their wives do
Omg that makes me so mad lol. His wife also went on tumblr to say I get people don't want to pay for things that were once free but it's hard to make a "survivable living" well making cool things lol. Seems like there making a very survivable living then. If she's talking about lower people at the company maybe they should take a paycut tell they can make it more sustainable.
It's the whole fresh audacity to talk about livable wages when it is very clear they can absolutely afford to downsize without even laying anyone off. Anyone with eyes can see they can cut down on production or take a cut themselves before it can come down to asking fans for money.
It's not a crime like some TH-cam scandals, sure. It's just.... the absolute cajones.
Her name is Sara but the real culprits are the guys
they'll have more money for production if Shane's wife sells all those $100 tote bags, they should seriously consider that
This is what happens when fans get a glipse behind the curtain and realize their favorite creators are no longer relatable. 25+ employees for YT?? If you want to make TV, go make TV but don't ask fans to fuel your ego or else they get no more content for free. What an absolute slap in the face for fans, subscribers, patreons, merch buyers, and tour fans.
25+ employees and doing this is weird considering how smosh has more than 25+ and they have both ticketed and free content.
The exception i’d give is Kurz gesat, they produce high quality videos and they have like 40 staff or something. They have a patreon too but they ALSO post their videos on youtube.
Other commenters who are videographers say they spotted that Watcher is using an ultra-expensive camera meant for feature films, and that is not needed for good quality.
I think Watchers grew quickly, and have the idea that they always “need to grow” and are now top heavy and wasteful.
what i also don't understand is how they expected to get new viewers to watch their content. while youtube's algorithm definitely has flaws, they're a big channel that gets decent views so they wouldn't have a problem drawing in new viewers. by removing all videos from youtube, they would've essentially removed any chance of getting a new audience which would just cause their website to die slowly since people would slowly cancel their subscriptions. it just feels like they didn't plan this through at all and needed a quick way to make money because the fact they didn't think of this at all after so many years of producing online content is baffling
Such a good point, and also not counting the cost of running the website? I want to see so badly their business plan for this (if they even had any) because there's so much to lose and very little to gain, to me no matter how I look at it it's just a terrible business decision. And their compromise now doesn't make sense either, so now that they've lost part of their audience they're going to keep the website running with shows early (which very little people care about) and then still upload them on youtube like always? They're losing even more money now. I'm so intrigued by it.
@@aprilthecat afaik the videos are hosted on vimeo so that would make it a lot cheaper to run, and another comment said that their SSL cert was broken when the website first launched, which really makes me believe that the website was rushed and they didn't think it through at all. now they're in an even worse situation because they've lost the trust of their current viewers, and anyone that didn't know who they were before this now just see them as people that care more about money than their audience
Exactly! And why I think Dropout’s model of posting the first episode of a lot of their content’s seasons (or multiple episodes sprinkled throughout overtime) is a good way to gain new viewers (in addition to social media marketing)
@@anne-marie339 They were going to do that. That was the initial plan.
This is a fair point. I don’t think they thought about it long term at all. I think they just genuinely thought they would get enough subscribers to keep it going forever
Puppet History could have been funded with cute merch and behind the scenes exclusives on Patreon. International trips for Ghost Files could have been funded in HOURS through a gofundme, and then they could use those trips to also shoot some of Steven's content. Add extra Patreon content along the way, a few behind the scenes/on location pictures and short videos, come back and post everything to massive profit. None of this was rocket science, they just didn't want to do things that way. Nor did they have any exclusive content READY for the streamer--they essentially asked us to pre-order streaming content. That's a hard pass from be guys.
Bro i bet you people would go WILD for purposely awful puppet history merch, part of its charm is that it's low budget
@@aff77141 I agree, things that look just a touch janky would really fit in with it. And if it had old tiny Professor instead of new weird Professor? Sell like hot cakes. Their merch offerings are threadbare--they need to make it easier to support them, not harder to watch their content. How they couldn't figure this out assures me that they could make all the money they want and still go bankrupt.
Or they should have just removed all of steven's stuff which bearly got views and is just an excuse for steven to travel and eat
They tried to make it seem like they’re struggling for funds while also posting photos of a 50K wedding venue and a brand new Tesla. Clearly the cash is rolling in, they’re just mismanaging it and vastly overspending.
You do realize that personal money and business money are different right?
@@tfordham13yes, but in cases like dropout, smosh and try guys, when things got rough business wise, the people at the top dug in to their personal funds to save the company and employees and/or took paycuts.
@@tfordham13personal money and business money are connected when you own your business. I use personal money to pay my editor in case a video doesn’t make a minimum of what an editor deserves (I edit too). I started a channel membership to try to minimize that, but I still mostly pay from my paychecks. For instance, if I had money to buy a V8 Jeep (Shane’s Tesla) and kept asking for more of my community’s money (from free TH-cam to streaming service), then I would be mismanaging my funds.
@@tfordham13and where do you think the "personal money" is coming from?
@@pietrofattorello it doesn't matter
The thing that REALLY irked fans (me) (I spent like 3 hours in the comment section of their original announcement) was Steven saying ‘anyone can afford it!’
Comments were FILLED with really sad stories - we’re in a global recession ffs!!
Also people don’t actually like the better quality. We want just Ryan and Shane chilling.
And everyone hates Steven lmao
I feel like they’re just completely out of touch now, which is okay to an extend, it at least makes sense. But to think that even 50% of their viewers have enough spare income to spend on stuff like Patreons or Merch is just… wild 😬
Graphics are irrelevant to me. Does anyone else hardly watch the actual video and use TH-cam mainly as audio?
Yep. I have adhd so sometimes I rely on just having background videos to get through the day, if I do watch one it's for education or over a meal
@@aff77141yo this explains why I have an easier time doing chores when I have a video in the bg
Me! I’m usually doing something else and just listening.
Agree 100% thats why i watch them cuz i just want to hear the ghoul boys banter while i do my cleaning but honestly ghost file is not as fun as unsolve and theyre too long😅
Well they have ghostfiles which is all about watching the video
They failed miserably to hide the fact that it was not about their audience at all, it was all about them. /They/ wanted TV quality. /They/ wanted that quality with absolutely no cuts to their monthly income. If you're independent, want to do grander things and still get the same paycheck, it will NOT work out. They knew it but decided to protect their ambitions and their paychecks anyway under the guise of care for their audience. I was not even a fan and yet I feel insulted on behalf of all the people who got them where they are.
No not they they didn't choose this steven did he is the only one in charge
@@tfordham13they aren't toddlers bffr, they are grown ass 30yo men. They could have pushback, but Shane and his wife were too happy w their tesla and luxury wedding and purses to care, not to mention sara was defending it on tumblr so they were on board
@vieenrose7340 and? It's still there job if they get fired what will they do than
I truly truly think that they saw what Dropout is doing (selling out msg, getting interviewed by the Emmy's, having a thriving independent streaming platform) and wanted some of that WITHOUT realizing why Dropout managed to be successful in the first place
Thing is, you can't be dropout.
Dropout is celebrating year 5.
And on top of that had big company funding, then lost it and downsized to like the ceo + d20 main crew and like 5 other people, when they had like at least 100 ppl.
In like year 2/3.
Like that's hard to comeback from but the main reason ppl paid for Dropout was d20 amongst a few others, so fans were willingly to pay for it if they could keep having it. and it work out.
@@Zarsla I also remembered when they released Dropout that things were going really bad for CollegeHumor. They had to layoff so many people so when they said they needed the money, it really looked like they needed the money.
Dropout was never even meant to be a success but a genuine attempt to survive a terrible situation. The success came from the fact that they struck a gold mine producing things their fans liked, namely the unscripted content.
And Dropout is putting out new content like every other DAY, and it's one of the best channels out there. Watcher would have offered something new about once per week.
Not they steven choose this
@@camannwordsmith Exactly! And it's not only just 'the Dropout version of X show' either, it's an entirely different and new show/concept for a show, too! Like Game Changer, which is so much fun and genuinely makes me wish I could afford Dropout so I can watch the entire episodes. Like... they came up with the idea of a single show that is *also* all of the other shows at the same time? Now *that's* something unique! And Watcher hasn't really innovated their shows to that level, lets be real, they're still doing the same thing they did when they were still at Buzzfeed
When you want to create a second income stream - make it and make it pay before abandoning the first one assuming everyone will follow you. This is an amateur business move.
Okay, here's the thing. The content isn't free. If it is being paid for by advertisting, and the advertising requires a viewer, then it is the viewer's time spent watching the ad that pays for the content. So when a creator says "you can watch the content for free" you are saying that the viewer's time has no value. Time is any person's most precious commodity. A very limited resource. The absolute gall that content creators have to insinuate that their time has value but ours does not? And actually, because I do value my time, I pay for youtube premium so that I don't have to watch ads. The time I get back from not watching ads can be spent doing things that are productive and enrich my life. I pay for the content I watch, and so does everybody else. You pay with money or you pay with your time. Which has more value to you?
Wow I never thought of that
ad/sponsorblock babeeey😘
Honestly same. The thing about youtube sponsors is that they really don’t have a way of seeing how many people watched the sponsor segment of a video. They can only see how many people used the (often times OUTDATED code since they only last about a month). I know for a fact that Im never gonna click a sponsor link or use that one time code so they aren’t getting paid for me watching anyway. And seeing as all websites have made ads so aggressive im gonna use adblock anyway. Im not going out of my way to whitelist youtube of all things.
Thanks for pointing this out. A lot of people missed this crucial point which really helped and ramped up creators revenue. And by people I mean both creators and viewers.
Really well said!!!
Honestly I can't say the damage isn't done, it is. Even though they backpedaled it still breaks my heart that they did try to completely cut a large portion of their viewers, telling us, as you said, "if you don't pay you won't see any new videos". I've watched and rewatched all of their videos, I've been to their live show, I've bought their merch, and listened to all their podcasts.. and it wasn't enough, and I'm the "bad fan" for not also subbing to their patreon and now this streaming service. I don't know when I will be willing to go back.. Especially after hearing how Shane's wife was ragging on people for not wanting to cough up $6/mo since her ability to buy $100 tote bags was threatened... Girl I cringe when I have to buy a new Aldi bag for my groceries.
No, they're not who I thought they were and I don't trust them. Let them drive Teslas, spend money like it was Chucky Cheese tokens and eat gold, I'm not helping to pay for it, not even with a subscribe and like.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that they hired two new staff members right before the announcement and then guilt tripped people that starting the streaming service was the only way to keep watcher from going under
I want to point out that this video also misses the point: you say that we don't want to pay for free content, but we are the product. They profit off of our views claiming it's free content sure but that's the only reason they're getting paid from advertisers if our views weren't there, they wouldn't have been able to have a channel. So not only do we become the product but then they want to extort us again by asking us to pay a fee which is higher than many multi-channel syndicated platforms like peacock Plus and Discovery. The worst part was they went to step further and said they would be removing everything off of there TH-cam starting in May but they retracted that statement shortly after. They had already given the statement to a magazine and it was specific that they were removing their old content from TH-cam. This is a company that has been sponsored by Disney
They literally did an entire episode of Ghost files on Disney's dine to promote the haunted Mansion. But they've mismanaged their business so much that they want more from us who have been the product the entire time??? No bro charge businesses and we will offer to be the product........
Two more things One when they launch the website it took 2 hours for them to install a SSL certificate so the website was not even secure when they launched. Bad planning. B. The website does not have subtitles on the videos or did not when we first checked and therefore people with audio processing problems could not even participate so we were purposefully left behind. Ridiculous! I'm still mad!
Edited to add love your content keep it up so glad you're here
yes as always, if something is free, you are the product. Plus there are some things happening in TH-cam that are effecting the biggest creators, and it's pretty obvious that these guys were one of the biggest channels hit and are trying to keep up financially. They just did it a little tone deaf-ly. All in all, they retracted everything they said so it doesn't even matter now.
@@noellefritz5678 the problem is they also retracted for the wrong reasons. Not because they are good people. Also they are not huge in the scheme of things especially for having 25 employees. That's blatant bad business.
Youre being extorted by watching puppet shows. I get that views gets them money, but videos give you entertainment. See the quid pro quo? And also I want to see high caliber stuff. Go watch drew gooden or jschlatt if you want chill shit
@@kennyfool8078it’s not a fair exchange any way you put it if they keep asking more and more of their viewers , most aren’t asking for the “high quality” crap they keep taking about, you can’t FORCE that on people 😂 🤷♀️.
So are you claiming to be upset with TH-camrs on Adsense -- all of them -- because they make YOU the product? That comes off as a bit sanctimonious, if true. Likewise, there's nothing really big in your comment I didn't already hear from Donna in this video, so I don't know why you're saying she doesn't get it, you're just reiterating the (important parts of the) presentation she just made. "they want more from us who have been the product the entire time???" just comes off as a bit too convenient and almost impossible a value you hold people accountable outside of this situation.
And what’s interesting is that the Try Guys recently launched their streaming platform “2nd Try” and we’re much more well received because they understand the TH-cam platform and how fans interact with it, they understand that some fans are able to pay for streaming and that others aren’t but regardless the content will be shared on both, just at different times and the steaming gets extra content (past paid shows (Romeo and Juliet), extra after the menu, etc)
I also think that the fact they worked with drop out to figure out how to do it, helped their approach and impact
I remember them "begging" us to subscribe to watcher when leaving buzzfeed. Wish them the best, i’m out. Guarantee they leave at the first chance they get
I hate it when youtubers refer to their viewers as fans instead of subscribers. They're clearly not fanatics that go for anything
You're kinda right. A few 'Influencers' I watch have a fanatic following that drool over every word said. Like, I like the content/person, but the fanbase needs some serious introspection; and the creator, some humbling. It's possible that (cause TH-camrs are just untrained, normal people, most of them aren't celebs who grew up in the spotlight) the TH-camr just doesn't realize that they're weaponizing(?) some of their viewers' minds.
I've actually unsubbed or stopped interacting (leaving comments/likes) from a couple TH-camrs I liked in the past because of their volatile die for fan-following.
Well your wrong
as a fan, the last few months I've actually forced myself to watch their stuff. it's far more scripted and feels off. I'm probably not gonna watch until they post certain series that aren't as bad
Thiiiis
Yeah, I missed puppet history, unsolved, and are you scared (when it first started). Other than that, I definitely forced myself to watch the rest of their series. I wanted to see if they would go back to the good older stuff but…… that’s out the window.
I literally only watch unsolved. They’re feeling very dad humor and out of touch recently.
@@RaymondTheThird I saw a clip of their podcast yesterday of Steven not understanding why salad was expensive compared to fast food. They really are out of touch
Yep. Literally a few days before their infamous video was posted, I was browsing their channel as I hadn't watched anything of theirs in months and was curious if I missed anything good. Scrolling through all their videos, I was disappointed by what I saw. None of it seemed interesting to me.
The biggest betrayal was the way they hyped their 'big announcement for ages beforehand and then it was all 'If you're poor and can't afford our service you stink so go away...
This really feels like an academic video of "Creator's Dos and Don'ts" that doesn't really tackle the Audience reaction.
They built their platform on Audience Integration. They had viewer Q&As and Viewer Submitted Content as a cornerstone to Ghost Files in the beginning.
Tbh I was becoming more and more disinterested in their content so I didn't really care anymore when they posted videos.
But to see an announcement video which I thought was them saying they were dissolving the company with "Goodbye" in the title, where they set it up with a sappy tone and then said: Yeah, so we want money. If you don't have it, we don't want you.
They got a very reasonable response from their audience. Their apology was the most damage control they could do without saying, "that was a dick move on our part and we're so sorry". It was a very corporate apology, and it certainly didn't feel sincere. I feel like it's safe to say that Steven's attitude was what upset a lot of people the most...and that's not even getting into his finance-bro instagram featuring his brand-new tesla that people brought up as being extra aggravating.
Watcher will not recover. They lost their core fan base and spat on the remnants. Now they only have the fans who have money left, good for them. They got what they wanted in the end. They culled their audience just how they wanted to.
Yeah I noticed that even after the "apology" they only regained 10k of the total subscribers they lost and they've lost about 1.5k patreon subscribers
Very well written. This gets to the heart of it.
As a super fan i really felt betrayed. I've been watching since their first days on Buzzfeed. That goodbye video ruined my weekend. But now, I'm just doing as you say, "if you don't like it, don't buy it", and i wont be buying it, or watching old videos.
With Dropout, they didn't stop their Videos to be upload in their YT channel. They were also dumped from their main company essentially bankrupting then College Humour. Also it still took YEARs for Dropout to really click.
Yeah that's a key differentiating factor to the streaming platform origin story and I don't see many people point that out
Yes, Dropout feel triumphant because they had to crawl out of a pit to succeed.
They tried to do what would have killed Rooster Teeth sooner: removing the TH-cam anvenue of your audience will kill any potential future for sharing your content and brand with others in the future. Greed will always be a short-sighted victory, with a slow and painful downfall.
As one of their fans, since before Shane even joined, the biggest slap on the face was just how they could ever misunderstand their fans so deeply.
I'll still watch them but the trust was broken. The whole thing was condescending and I don't like being threatened or being treated like I'm an idiot.
The sad part about this is that if they just asked for more money, We probably would have given it to them. They never even really advertised their Patreon after the initial launch. So they jumped to such a drastic conclusion without doing any market research or ASKING the fans to help.
It just shows how arrogant they are and how little consideration they have for their fanbase.
I think the issue is they are assuming that their audience wants to view this ellusive "higher quality" content without even giving them a sample of this new type of content. If they had budgeted to make a "pilot" episode of their creative ideas, then they would basically move to crowdsourcing their new projects. Instead, they paywalled their current quality videos and people realized that they were not willing to pay that amount in this economy. I think they just come across as rich/out of touch with their fanbase who is probaby struggling to make ends meet. Its like having your rich friend as you to buy them a coffee when you literally walked to work because you can't afford to fix your car. Its not that asking for a favor is bad, its the timing/context.
If I could freaking give advice to any company, TRUST IS APART OF YOUR NET WORTH. Stop thinking solely in $$$profit$$$ Like okay you won't get skyrocketing, exponential profits all the time, but being trustworthy and having a shred of compassion for your consumer (even if you have to sacrifice potential $$$) will likely get you longevity and sustainability.
I think their apology was good, but I don't think I'll be watching their content again, at least not for a while. I was someone who watched because of Shane and Ryan's chemistry and their personalities, and while I did realize they probably weren't 100% the people they presented in their videos, I feel like this whole thing showed me a little too much behind the curtain. Just understanding how inauthentic they really were put me off. But yeah, kudos to them to listening to their PR team for that apology.
I hate it when they say ‘we are doing it for you’……….F no. It’s for them and ONLY them
I think one of the things that has screwed up Ryan, Shane and Steven's ability to see reality is that, rather than being individual YT content creators, they all started at Buzzfeed and got used to the company format and big budget. When they started Watcher, they wanted all the bells and whistles, including the big staff, rather than waiting and growing the channel and adding people as they could afford them. You don't hire 25 people and then also have to hire freelance crew when you go shoot on location. You don't have to spend money on studio time when you can afford to have an office in Hollywood. Maybe get a studio in a less expensive area of LA and not have to rent studio time.
In short, they think they are entitled to big bucks and less work rather than understanding that, when you start a new business, you work long hours and get less money than a 9-5 gig. I will always remember an episode of Unsolved where Ryan kept saying people need to do their job and Shane was saying, "Yeah, but you don't want to have to work past 7:30." That always struck me as the words of someone who didn't understand what it takes to start a business. I used to work 10-12 hour days and then go home and do the bookkeeping and supply purchases. You only hire when it is unsustainable to do it without more people because you are making enough to pay them and still have enough to pay yourself.
Starting a new business means a LOT more work than being an employee. These guys all need a reality check. I would love to know what those 25 people are bringing to the table that makes them worth a paycheck. If they don't bring in what they cost, then they need to be cut loose.
The true kicker is that volunteer donation supporters on Patreon (13,000?! I didn’t know that many) were not given the new pay platform, they were given a _discount code_ I mean how did anyone think that would be ok?
Greed and hubris is a hell of a drug.
It is probably going to take some time before I'm able to view their content without having the feelings of betrayal and, quite frankly, disgust come back to the surface. Those aren't the sort of emotions I'm looking to experience while winding down from yet another long hard day of drudgery.
And just like the Fine Bros I will never be able to watch another one of their videos ever again.
I loved Buzzfeed Unsolved. I made it 2 weeks into the switch to watcher, and I saw a noticeable difference...and it hasn't changed.
what didn't you like about the new channel?
i loved UNSOLVED, but when they disappeared i had no idea they had started something of their own.
not until this scandal of them leaving TH-cam and free content behind.
i'm disappointed in the way they've disrespected their fans.
the try guys just did this very same thing... and they did it right. The biggest difference, is not that content is still on youtube.. the biggest difference is that they are giving viewers teasers of what content is to come.. under subscription. they are SHOWING people how the new content is better and more desirable - not just telling people and expecting everyone to trust it will be enjoyable.
Lmao they learned from what happened to watchers and used it in their favor. Which is smart btw
their apology was good yes but idk if i can accept it without at least being skeptical. their reasoning for doing this was too fragile to jutify what felt like a huge stab in the back. they forgot the reason why they can do youtube, their following, that to do the projects they want, they need the support of their fans, and higher productions is simply not what we wanted
Their apology was nothing bc of their behavior online, steven ig post, saras rant, they not responding to variety after they had confirmed the initial report that everything was gonna be deleted. The apology was like 'here shut up and come back' bc they got so much hate, nor genuine
13:56 Personally when these donation adds are framed as fully dramatic rather than "hey this is to support making the videos better", it always ends with the former being used as a manipulation tactic. I see it with adds, I see it with politicians, and when TH-camrs do it, I'm already "oh, thanks for the warning you can never be trusted again"
They should've put the money used making the website into hiring a financial advisor.
Thanks for going into the whole "canceled" thing. Like many people who claim to be canceled weren’t actually canceled and it's annoying when blacklash is now always categorized as canceled itself as a way to dismiss criticism.
They even sell their show to giant streaming services and have been for years.
They are SO fkn rich, and they want EVEN MORE!
I personally think their apology was good. I definitely feel this whole thing is money mismanagement.
That's an interesting term to describe what they did.
@@dariang4725 I feel like ppl are rly downplaying it… I find it extremely hard to believe they are ao terrible at money management.
@@dariang4725 I'm describing what I think is their biggest issue. Them not being able to the manage the funds they are already receiving.
I don’t think you can judge really anything about what they’re feeling/thinking by the apology. They had major motivation to seem genuine even if they weren’t. We’ll have to see how they talk about this as time goes on to see a clearer picture.
I've been following buzzfeed since its trending (2015), and have been watching unsolved since before Shane (since 2016) and saw their transition to Watcher in real time. Like the majority of fellow fans, I was gobsmacked by the announcement. It really did feel like they abandoned their fans, and it's heartbreaking too, knowing that the image they're selling on the Internet is more and more unlike their real personalities (Shane saying 'eat the rich' whilst having a near-celebrity status wedding and sara's tumblr posts).
Honestly, I would much prefer turning on Unsolved marathons or watching the earlier episodes of Puppet History and Covid episodes of Are You Scared again. The guys forgot we watch the shows for their dynamics as friends, when yellow and blue texts on black screen would turn into memes on the Internet. We don't need television quality content, nor do we need a $6 a month subscription for a platform we'll watch one or two shows on.
It was a little bittersweet looking back on Unsolved's iconic legacy, but that video (and the apology, however well done it is) does not seem sincere to me. I unsubscribed a few days ago with a heavy heart, if I miss it I'll rewatch the old shows and my favorite episodes. I was going to use my newly earned money to buy merch too, but not anymore I guess.
So long Watcher, it could've lasted.
They didn’t really push their patreon, and people think they could’ve invested more time in growing that. Most people doing videos on this situation say they have 13k patrons. This is true, they actually gained about a thousand during the early days of the scandal. That’s because you can join for free, and people were doing that to read what they were saying to the patrons. Even though they have 13k members, they only had 6k paid patrons. And that has now dipped to 4600 paid members. That is a huge drop in revenue right when they’re trying to increase that. Now maybe some are moving to the streaming service, but many are pissed because they kinda screwed over the loyal patrons who’d been support them for a long time.
6k paid patrons is still a lot of money per month.
I love how they created the vibe at their inception of their company they’re broke but in reality Ryan’s dad is a dentist and Steven’s family is also very rich. They really think fans are stupid trying to pull the wool over our eyes again.
I was one of their patrons for 2 years (well almost) and no I will not forgive them! They will not get a dime out of me ever again.
Even now they won't upload anything because we have to wait for this one month they can really jam a stick in it for all I care.
i can live without them. throughout this drama, i found myself just drawn to their buzzfeed content.
I only recently discovered them. Watched all their Mystery Files episodes and most of their old "Unsolved" episodes on BuzzFeed. Enjoyed their chemistry together and humorous takes on the material, but they've never done anything that new or innovative. Most of the things they cover have been covered a hundred times before in greater detail. I can definitely live without them, especially since my favorite, "Eat the rich" Shane, has been revealed to be a hypocrite and a fake. Really soured me on their personalities, which is the main thing they had going for them in the first place.
Agreed brother. Fuck Watcher and their greed
I can't even bring myself to watch old content and not see them in a different light ☹️ I just feel so played
I loved Ryan and Shane on Buzzfeed Unsolved! But when they started the Watcher channel, I found it incredibly boring. I hated that puppet show and none of the content interested me so I just never watched it again. If I wanted to see them, I went back to old buzzfeed videos. So I was genuinely surprised when this how controversy happened and they were demanding payment of all of their content. I felt like I made the right decision separating from that
They said they had a big announcement. Like it was something the fans would love… very wrong
And you didn't even touch on the negative reaction Steven Lim got instead of Ryan and Shane
im guessing it's bc hes the ceo and maybe his idea plus more people like and watch for ryan and shane
He is technically in charge of finances, but the parasocial excuses are definitely going hard
@@aff77141 This right here - I’ve seen so many people make excuses for those two as if they aren’t grown adults that signed off on this, too. They desperately want to keep this image they have created in their heads about those two to instead pass the buck solely to Steven simply because they didn’t like him.
Excuses such as:
“I bet this was all Steven’s idea, he’s such a greedy CEO”
“I don’t think Ryan and Shane would do this to their fans, I bet Steven pressured them to do this.”
“Ryan and Shane have passion and love making the content they do, Steven obviously only cares about money, so I can only blame one person for this screw up and it’s Steven.”
Just constant excuses for those two while trying to push a narrative that it’s solely Steven and no one else.
They’re all grown adults. They all made the conscious decision to do this. Each one of them were all smiles and talking giddily when discussing Watcher and how they want their fans to throw money at it. When they started to get backlash, they all 3 defended it.
Yet people ignored all of that to instead insist it was JUST Steven and how the blame should only be put on him - because the other two are just little baby angels that can never think of such a thing.
Let’s be honest, It’s always been about Shane and Ryan. Also Steven’s whole bit is spending a ludicrous amount of money on a single item of food. You can’t spend $1000 on waffles and then say the channel needs more money for production costs
@@empac8631 how IS a waffle 🧇 over $1,000?! We shouldn’t be surprised by food prices though but wow! Are you serious?
Because all we need nowadays it's ANOTHER subscription
Many commentators here are correct. They are honestly acting like a spoiled group that forgot where they came from and after they got their millions, they left the people who got them there in the dust. I myself hate to get stabbed in the back in this way and will never subscribe to them again.
Shortly before their infamous goodbye video, they released a scheduled video a little late. Their explaination for that was "monitization issues" or something to that effect. I'm personally calling bs on that one.
It's like being played after being played 🤡
I contend that one of the bigger parts of this issue was a disconnect between what the creators want and what their audience is actually looking for. I really haven't seen any Watcher fan say they wanted film quality cameras or high budget editing, but that is 100% what Ryan, Shane, and Steven wanted to do. Which makes the main reason they want to switch to a streamer not a big selling point, and in fact has been a turn off for many. Alongside the other valid criticisms.
I think they straight up just waste funds, they keep buying more and expensive equipment and more staff knowing full well that even hyper successful youtube channels couldn’t cover that kind of bottom line. The amount of crew on every single video is INSANE. Even videos that are just Ryan and Shane reading stories have like 20 people on staff.
I've never heard of these guys and never watched them, so I'm indifferent to all of this. My thing is, if they wanted to move their channel to a different platform that has a better monetization system, supports higher quality videos, and has a less restrictive censorship policy without needing to rely on Patreaon, then they should've just moved to Nebula. That's what most TH-camrs with bigger budgets and higher production value have been doing for years. They post heavily censored videos on their TH-cam channels so they don't get demonetized and post the uncensored and longer versions on their Nebula channels, along with bonus videos. That way, they both give their fans who refuse to leave TH-cam more content and incentivize them to pay for Nebula. Nebula also has a better safety net of pre-established watchers with over 650,000 users. That's still microscopic compared to TH-cam's over 4 billion users, but that's the trade off you risk if you want to move to a platform that does a better job at supporting content creators.
In my opinion, you have to have the biggest ego on the planet if you think your fans are gonna follow you to a new platform that's locked behind a paywall. Never assume that you're someone's only TH-camr, especially when there are more TH-camrs out than ever that can make the exact same type of content. If you abandon your channel, the majority of your fans are gonna move on to other content creators. Most people don't want to have to keep up with multiple different platforms at the same time. It's why the streaming wars have been causing pirating to be popularized again. It sounds to me like they just want their own tv show. TH-cam ain't TV. The core appeal of TH-cam is that it's not TV. It's supposed to be less polished and more amateur. So the fact that they think their fans care about TV level quality content enough to move from a free to use platform to a one they have to pay for shows how tone deaf and out of touch they are to their own fan base. So this whole thing just reeks of greed and terrible business planning.
Exactly my thoughts
Easy to assume Lim wanted his own platform and not have to split profits with nebula
im sorry but i just dont understand why they have so many employees. you dont need that many people to make youtube videos. you just dont. and people do not care about production value. im literally watching most videos, without even looking at the video more thn 5 glances. it's in the background. it's basically a podcast. you only need good audio. video and production quality should not be the number one priority.
Fr but it’s nice they’re giving people jobs though they seem like good people but the idea was just stupid
I just don't understand why they announced this so abruptly, I watched almost all their videos and there wasn't even a hint of this (that i could see) and then BAM Goodbye youtube! Welcome paywall! How in the world did they think this was going to be received???? I really don't understand. It's like a girl going on a few dates with a guy and then saying "hey this has been fun, but if you'd like to continue seeing me I'm only going to be reachable through OF, thanks for being a loyal fan! Hope to see you there!"
Because of arrogance and because they didn't care. They figured their audience was rabid enough to just roll over and fork out the $5.99 a month to watch their videos on their own streaming platform, no questions asked. They got a rude awakening when they realized their audience weren't as big of simps as they assumed, and had to do a quick backtrack lest they lose most of their subscribers. Unfortunately, it seems a large part of their audience is gullible, because many are falling for the obviously scripted, corporate PR "apology".
The fundamental problem with Watcher as a channel here is that Ryan and Shane kept highlighting their goal to produce "better quality content." They never made high quality content; right from the beginning they were making the same low effort clickbait they were putting out when they still worked for BuzzFeed, but using better cameras. That's it.
Personally, it wasn't enough for me. I'm stayin unsubbed. The condescending tone from Steven, Sara (Shane's wife), and the general approach has sullied my view of them forever. I don't even want to watch their stuff with my AdBlock on because they're off putting to me now.
They should have taken hints from Rhett and Link. Their video production have improved over the years but they haven't forgotten the reason why fans watch GMM which is for Rhett and Link's chemistry.
Honestly I feel for the community. Video is great! Keep up the good work!
2 months later and I'm still watching videos about this issue 😂
I never thought of them as tv quality lmao
when you take advantage of fandom and generosity and turn it into our job to make sure that you can do what you wanna do, it's over.
when the grumps started doing their patreon, i was like... okay word! if i ever decide i want the grumps uncensored the way i always saw them growing up, i can just pay five bucks and get that. and i do! it's not even an issue. because i know if i ever couldn't afford it, i can still see the episodes censored on youtube. the idea of never seeing a watcher episode again because i didn't want to pay five dollars or can't afford it? nah. i just don't watch them anymore because of it.
It's funny because I know Steven from Worth It on Buzzfeed, and I've never watched a single video from Watcher...
I really appreciate you braking this down the way you did.
I didn’t really understand at first because from the outside it seemed like what people do with Patreon, but I didn’t realize a lot of the nuance of it like that people already supporting them through Patreon would no longer have access. Love your content 💕
another thing that wasn't mentioned in the video is that a lot of the Watcher fanbase identifies as struggling broke college students, like that was their core fanbase in buzzfeed and it was still their core fanbase in watcher. a lot of peoples' testimony that i've seen mentions things like carefully budgeting to afford their patreon, which makes the 'betrayal' feel so much more icky and gross.
Having seen videos from their viewers I believe the lost a lot of hard core fans that were supporting them. Also streaming is expensive, how are they planning to pay for that and high budget production, it is beyond me...
Honestly forget them forever
Sadly, I kind of feel this. The ghost hunts last season were boring, what they changed mystery files into is frankly pathetic, and it feels like Shane thinks he's got the back up now to piss on people's beliefs whenever he wants to look smart. It's losing its charm.
What I don't understand is why content creators aren't asking their audience what they want.... it seems pretty obvious as an outsider looking in.
That “free membership” for Patreon subscribers was only for a few months. After it ran out they would have to repurchase a membership. That backlash will hit once subs realize what the deal actually is.
Omg it's Psychirl from the channel Donna, I'll see myself out...
epic profile pic, incredible manga, hope you know Ruri dragon is back
i watched an interview with coffeezilla where he talked about how he puts a lot of work into the background and how he thinks it's lazy to just sit in front of a camera and talk if you have the option to improve. then he started the second channel and we loved the laid back "voidzilla" content he made just in front of a black background. i think a switch flipped in him then, and he realized sometimes low-produced, quicker videos are the best vehicle to deliver information. he also listens to us as viewers, which i love. i understand that youtubers have artistic visions, but there needs to be a balance between the art and the audience on a platform like this.
No one is doubting their vision such as creating an inclusive and diverse space, they are just not good business people and are clearly mis managing their finances. I mean they already have a pay wall. Yeah, not a good look.
Not a Watcher fan by any means (only occasionally watching some of their videos every now and then), and I wish them the best moving forward, but while we don't know their financial situation for sure it does seem like they don't manage their finances well enough 😐.
Nevermind new revenue stream, they should hire someone who specializes in managing their finances, so that they have better cash flow going forward...
love your energy! thanks for sharing your perspective. this move watcher did is so insulting honestly. they really said they dont care about their fans as long as theyre being paid enough to live their extremely expensive lives. :/
I still think they are going to loose views once the videos are up after a month of their released in their platform. Sailing the seas happens to every single platform
lol your videos are always well thoughout i havent seen this one yet but just wanted to know your style of investigating is awesome and very fresh.
keep up the awesome work!!
If there are true crime channels still filming in their rooms despite millions of views and subscribers then watcher would be fine as well. They just see $$$$
It's not about good deals or content anymore for many fans. I think for many fans, they just don't trust them anymore.
For some, it was just enjoying the guys together and talking. These guys was like family to some fans.
Now they are naive about investing again. Will they get betrayed again?
They aren't any different from any other greedy company. How can we sell people on spending more while not adding more and convince them, "We are doing it for fans?"
It just seems like most big time YT content creators go down this path.
The problem wasnt the streaming, it wss their attitude towards it, while buying luxury bags, cars, weddings etc going on that tumblr rant, and steven on his IG like those that 'WANT TO FOLLOW US' like they are better than all us poor commoners made us mad. It was a huge f u to people and a spit in the face
pls is the way this is edited referencing watcher😭😭especially the intro with the random other cuts and screens behind it… i love it lol
Before the drama I’d never heard of them. Having seen a lot of reaction/analysis vids I now want to check them out. The consensus seems to be the content they produce is worth watching. It’ll be interesting to see how they’re doing a year from now.
I like that they say pay the bills , if they choice a bigger house , big weddings, bigger office that make bill get higher if they stay simple not over consuming on the fact they have money i am not saying dont expend just dont get bigger , bigger and saying you need to pay for it .
the worst thing they've done is made "streamer" a thing. no one ever called streaming services "streamers" prior to all this, and now all these creators reporting on this situation are referring to streaming platforms as "streamers"!
I’m glad they changed it. I’m only an avid watcher of puppet history but I would’ve been sad if I couldn’t watch it anymore
Voidzilla/Coffee/Stephen's videos are my favorite takes on this kerfuffle.
Amanda made it in, my two favourite commentary channels in one video 🎉❤
I can’t believe you’ve done this. A take down video of Man Carrying Prime Max Plus +? Unthinkable business practice.
Steven was/is definitely the man behind this bold and absolutely horrible idea. He’s the behind the scenes man that’s completely $$$ driven. The other two, the hosts, I don’t think were 100% on board but they went along with it. And I think Ryan and Shane truly regretted it. Steven is just bummed his idea to make more $$$ didn’t work.
Bruh Shane and Ryan are grown ass adult men
Hard to say how long they were working on their website, but the timing felt like the recent Newsom / CA wage hike hit them right after they scaled up, and they weren't financially prepared, so they scrambled for the quickest money grab to prevent downscaling.
Wasn't this law only for fast workers though? Or am I wrong? (Google Search is horrbile these days, I do not trust the results)
they bought the domain name in Feb this year.
To be honest with you I am an older viewer.
I always loved Shane and Ryan period. When I watch there old videos they give me well honestly feeling. Usually sad because I remember how fast time flys but yet feelings. I can’t remember when any other content has done this for me. It has always been free so if I have to dish out a couple bucks a month less than a coffee at Starbucks so be it. I just hope in years to come when I look back I still get those same feelings. Good luck guys I will support.
William
I think their apology solution is what should have been the case in the first place & it’s difficult for me to get past that (as a long-term fan). People would have been excited to support it, could even have some new shows exclusive to their platform. A lot of creators do this & pretty much everyone is understanding/supportive of it. But the way they went about it felt like suddenly kicking out all the poor people & international fans. They definitely knew not everyone would be able to afford it, & many of the people who helped them get to this point (by making their views appealing to advertisers) in the first place would be locked out as a result. All because they seemingly suck at managing their finances (based on their public spending habits, hiring new people when they’re “struggling”, starting a new show where they literally buy expensive food again, etc.). If they’re now struggling to pay people fairly then they need to look inward first instead of throwing it all at their viewers. Their business decisions, and potentially even their own pay-checks (the main 3), clearly aren’t responsible/sustainable (imo)
I’m suprised at how I missed all of this. I just figured they slowed down on releasing content. Didn’t realize they’re not like anymore by their own fans. Sad
yeah, i see it in reddit some times ago, even before this drama, steven's show is very unnecessary since most of viewers weren't asked them to walk around the world to eat something they maybe would never eat. why not cut that one. it feels like they knew what their viewers want but just don't listen to them.
i feel sorry for steven tho. but i agree with them if moneys are their problem, then just cut some unwanted show. or just hire a financial consultant and heard from them to cut unwanted show
They could just take their phones and do a local ghost haunting. Steven Lim is a bozo and nobody pays to see him. Not being a hater but if he wants, he should just create shows low key drinks/diner shows with his own budget. Watcher was a hit because of two main men and not Lim.