Routing and Gluing Guitar Binding - Podcast 54
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- Welcome to Crimson Guitars th-cam.com/users/CrimsonC... and welcome to the 54th episode of the guitar builders basics video podcast from Ben Crowe at www.crimsonguitars.com/guild
In this episode, Ben talks about how he routs out binding channels when building guitars and the various choices of glues for bonding the binding to the guitar and to itself.
Chapters
0:00 Introduction
2:04 The question: How to rout for binding, and glue binding to guitar?
3:09 How to rout the binding channel - don't use a Dremel!
6:43 Next question - Which glue?
11:00 Rout for binding, fine sand, stain guitar and then glue the binding
12:54 Rebate cutters with bearing sets
13:15 Acetone, thick/med superglue or poly cement
13:56 Conclusion
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That router bit is called a rabbet cutter. In the U.S. anyway. I tape the bindings in completely and make sure that are perfect. Then I wick in water thin ca. Glue. I use a wash coat of shellac on the top and sides. Which is easily sanded away with any excess glue.
Thanks for all of the great videos Love your channel.
Rabbet cutter here too mucker,though some peeps use the first thing that might sound right,(mucker means buddy in scotland BTW,in case you got the wrong end of the schtick).
Hi great subject.
In order to do some information and not competition, here's a nice video covering how to install binding
Part 5 - How to Install Binding on an Electric Guitar body from a guy living in Australia (Fletcher Guitars)
In that case, acetone is your friend.
With the Dremel/ stewMac stuff, go in 3-4 pass. because the bit is so thin, it might break if you cut to much at one time. The radian tool look a bit scary, but as long as you got the right bearing it will complete the job in a flash !!
Hope that helped
Alex
Cobi Tanium : that Fletcher vid, with Ben Crowe’s sage reasonings, should help all novice luthiers for many years.
I just finished my 1st attempt at negotiating a binding channel with an SAE 1/4” Ryobi router, fitted with an Amana Tool dedicated guitar binding router bit (includes 5-bearinged lateral depth tip guides) and couldn’t be happier after this my virgin endeavor.
Great information as always! Thanks Ben.
Great video explaining best methods for bindings, Thanks
get and use the acetone, for 2 reasons:
1) because it melts abs as well as celuloid bindings
2) because it evaporates completely (no staining)
And gets superglue off your skin, or even if your fingers are stuck use the acetone. It has hundreds of uses in cleaning, repairs etc.
First designed as a quick way to repair wounds on the battlefield until the wounded soldier got back to the medics camp.
Agreed, usually is at hardware stores on the cheap. I think binding is made of ABS and you can get a little can of ABS cement in the plumbing section of hardware stores. Just get a set of cheap paintbrushes so you can baste it on with better precision.
Lol “it’s nice it’s… expensive, as is most things from them” (Stew Mac)
Yo my fellow hobbyists, don’t fall for the stew Mac(unless you’re rich) with a bit of research and looking around you can find the same tools, hardware, paint, glues etc for a huuuge fraction of their prices. 👍
Also thank you so much for videos like this, I did binding routing for my first time on a Les Paul body and it was a learning experience but I did it and couldn’t be happier and all thanks to gentlemen who make videos like this. Thank you! 🙏
Great Video!!! Master Luthier Ben, I'm glad you covered this topic. I am binding a mandolin that I had to take apart and rebuild for a customer. I purchased the binding glue recommended by StewMac and found that the open time for the glue is very short. Almost like super glue but the only difference was the glue was more thick than super glue. It dries very fast. I taped and wrapped the instrument for a good clamp of the binding. The following day after removing the tape I was not happy with the outcome. so I removed the binding and was talking with a fellow Luthier where he told me about the acetone glue method. In your video you covered the topic of acetone glue. However I would like to see a more in depth video of making the acetone glue allowing the binding to melt and it makes the glue for you to use to install the binding. it would be nice to see how much plastic should be used to make a certain amount of acetone glue. Also I would like to know the open time of the acetone glue. And also what effect does the acetone have on the finish of the instrument. Thanks
👍👍 very informative
Thanks for posting ☺️
Ben,
Your heavy breathing while talking lovingly about your router bits is a tell tale sign of a true tool Junkie!
I can fully relate! 😂😂😎
I'm in the throes of my first build, consuming your videos with reckless abandon!
A super shitty Spalted Maple Les Paul kit I got from a company who shall rename shamefully unnamed.
I figured anybody can successfully complete a quality kit like yours.....I just needed more of a challenge.....?🙄
Anyway, thank you for sharing your wisdom & wit!
I enjoy both immensely!
Cheers!
very helpful thanks. love your videos
Thnx! Asnwers questions I was about to ask!
Acetone is also known as standard thinners
It can be purchased at car accessory shops like motor save (in the Uk) or any automotive paint suppliers
Hello Ben !
1/4" routers are fine for FLAT SURFACE binding routing. But as soon as you deal with a "contoured top" or if you're crazy enough to bind a "contoured back", then you have not a lot of options others than using the old channel method with a chisel or a Dremel, to follow the "plunging contours".
Now, when you work on a repair, or on an assembled guitar that a customer decides to put bindings on, of course you can run the 1/4" router everywhere it is uniformly FLAT, but in all the tricky parts of the binding, you most probably will wind up using the Dremel and the chisel.
Best regards.
If you cut the binding channel before carving the top, you can use a router on an archtop!
YES on critique of the Dremel. It's essentially a toy in my experience.
It has its uses. My wife uses one for glass etching. I don't remember the last thing I used mine for, but then again I have pneumatic rotary tools, so maybe there is *some* truth to your statement.
I believe that nail varnish remover is acetone. I bought larger containers of acetone from ebay. Worth a look.
For gluing bindings, try this german-made plastic adhesive: Ruderer L 530!
To glue binding what i usually do is to melt binding in acetone and then use the mixture as a glue, which in my case at least, has worked perfectly. Using acetone by itself, in my case, using Stewmac binding, didn't work too well as the binding wasn't well fixed to the body since the acetone mostly evaporated instead of melting the binding.
thank you Ben. question if you please would it help if you bordered it with tape then glue the binding. would that keep the glue from wicking on to the areas you don't want the glue on ?
Ben is correct in saying that you should use a decent router bit . i you're routing a flat top guitar i would always use a table mounted router . That way it is not prone to any unwanted movement will leave you with a uneven binding channel.
Trim routers make good binding routers.
Loctite Control Gel CA is a great binding glue.
Acetone will also readily melt lacquer, so don't use it on already lacquered guitars, unless you are planning to strip it.
To address the tear out issue. Because of extreme grain run out on the bouts and cut aways, climb cutting and shallow multiple passes will greatly reduce or eliminate tear out. Climb cutting simply put is going in the direction the router is pulling.
Lighter fluid or Naphtha will not melt binding. It has no oily residue, I use it to wet sand lacquer cause it won't swell the wood fibers like soapy water will. But don't smoke it will end badly. It's also no longer available in Ca. USA. but I still get it as lighter fluid.
The Stewmac binding glue does look an awful lot like model cement.
That seems really strange that acetone isn't readily available to people in the UK. Probably has something to do with emissions regulations set by the EU or something, eh?
Depending on the binding, MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) should work as well as acetone. However if acetone isn't available in the UK I have doubts MEK isn't available either. They're pretty similar chemically speaking and we used them for some similar tasks in the polymer lab I worked in. MEK evaporates a bit slower, though.
Seems like super glue would be the best option. Superglue's primary solvent usually is acetone as well, so you get that duality of the bond to the wood and the slight dissolving of the ABS or celluloid plastic. As far as sticking your fingers to the guitar, you could wear nitrile/latex gloves.
Ernie Ball has a pretty novel way of doing binding: th-cam.com/video/Q_oXBvr8AhU/w-d-xo.htmlm45s
And thanks for the videos! I'd be happy even if it was only once a week. Good stuff!!
Crimson Custom Guitars Acetone can be purchased from Fiber glassing suppliers or paint and hardware shops, Loctite have a consumer Gel super glue that can be purchased from hardware stores, it is very thick and will not run, but it has to be used very sparingly.
What do you do with the rabbet type binding cutter when you get varying width particularly around inward curves.
how do i do i cut the binding a purfling channel on a ooo28 nothing is square because the radius of the back. and im having so much trouble with it. i cant seem to get the stew mac guide for the dremel tool right. and even if i used a mans router it still is effected buy the parabolic curve on the back....grrrrrr frustrated
Hello master luthier Ben Crowe, I just recently picked up a Foredom unit for engraving inlays and things alike. I realised that it was much more expensive but I heard that people burn through dremels like no tomorrow so I figured I might as well get a unit that will last. Do you have any experience working with one of the foredom units?
I shall impart more wisdom up ye,
First acetone is nail varnish remover and can have a water content,also it most certainly is avbailable by the gallon here in the uk.
Second ,as for the router bearings,sealed bearings,not sealed for life as some sealed bearings use an oil seal and some use a metal seal which is more a bearing guard,the latter can be re-lubed in molten grease or hypoid oil,grease is better,as for the sizes to use,original bearings that come with any cutter will have a thickness and a ID for fixing to the cutter(inside diameter),obviously the ID must be adhered to,the thickness of the bearing can be less,but less means less bearing and more heat,so be warned,the OD can then be played with by various OD sizes(outside diameter),go for SKF or FAG bearings good european bearings and WILL last a very long time.i have re-built my motorbikes engine using SKF and FAG bearings,a suzuki RM250 1989 K-L series bike,racing engines need good quality stuff or they fuck up royal.
I have watched a youtube vid whereby edge binding was carried out using acetone,and that is how i will be going,i may even add F holes to my amp cabs and bind those too,as for abelone i am as the blind stag,i have no eye deer.
Remembering a saying from a fellow clansman(even possibly french),if at first you don't succeed try try again,or get hacked and go fucking crazy.
I was wondering if you could talk about how to build a guitar and find the position of the bridge and the scale length needed. Also on how to do the same if you want to say take a 6 string stock Telecaster body and put on say a 7 or 8 string 24 fret neck. How would you work out bridge placement?
the length from the leading edge of the saddle or bridge to the neck body joint (in the middle of the 12 or 14 fret) should be the same as the neck body joint to the leading edge of the nut. so 24.9" sacle length should be
12 7/16" from the neck body joint to the saddle in a strait line.
Cool I'm building a 7 string Tele from a kit and it was a 6 sting.
Trying to avoid buying the Stew Mac set but I have no idea what sort of routing bits or bearings I should be looking for. Any advice on some fairly easy to acquire bits and bearings that would be suitable for routing binding channels?
Nail polish remover = Acetone!! (i think?!?)
But then my nail polish will come off😕😂
It contains acetone, and oil.. nasty bad bad oil. Don't use it.
@@blackbirdpie217 as Ben said, I'm in the States and I can buy 100% acetone nail polish remover at the dollar store of all places
Nail polish acetone is not pure acetone.its deluded.you need pure clear acetone for binding
@@GerasimosHandmadeGuitars interesting, didn't know that! I might need to read the labels a bit better and see how much it's diluted.
You can buy acetone (propanone) at shop that sell cosmetics or some discount stores (I get mine at B&M).
It's sold as false fingernail remover. You can also use cheap nail varnish remover. Don't use expensive nail varnish remover - it contains amyl acetate and oils which you really don't want to use.
Hope this helps.
Malc
How do you bind a carved top?
who makes that router bit? and where do you get it?
Hi, pure acetone in small amounts in UK. (150ml.) £ store.
8:55 Where can you get Acetone? Most (not all so check ingredients) nail polish removers contain high levels of Acetone. Can get that stuff from most Pharmacies and Supermarkets.
HI!! Question. Ibanez style, how to route in the tricky parts? For example where the top decrease (closeto the bridge) to accomodate the arm of the player?
I know this is an old video. We've been able to buy acetone in Oz from Bunnings forever. Now that Bunnings took over Homebase, I suspect you should be able to get it there now in the UK in 1L and maybe 4L bottles if anyone's interested
dremel is good for inlays but not at all for bindings ..I so agree whit what you say Brother
Hey Guys, love the channel. I was wondering if you guys do custom inlay and binding installations, I would like to have some work done to my guitars, Cheers!...
Ben, acetone is only nail varnish remover.
Hi,
I encounter problems when binding. I tried to find the answer on forums but it seems that I am the only one with this problem. When applying the binding I used acetone and hot gun and it worked well and bind well. very clean job. but then...when applying the dye, the dye went through the binding i could see hundreds of micro cracks in the binding. i did the binding again 3 times and 3 times with same issue. What makes this happen? any idea anyone? Thanks for your answers.
How risky would it be to route for binding on a nitrocellulose finished tele style guitar? It isn't polished yet but has been drying for around a month.
Why cant you get acetone in the UK?
Acetone is sold by fiberglass supply shops ~£40 for 5l
PVA glue is your friend!!
M.L.C.S. Has sets of many different bearing diameters, and a "Gazzilion" of all types of router bits, Carbide included, and with M.L.C.S., one need not apply for a 2nd Mortgage!!! Oh, did I mention "FREE Shipping, in many cases? Cheers Gb bg
hello Ben acetone is available in the uk at any fibreglass material supplier
they use it to clean the resin of tools also on ebay you can buy 5 litres for
about £15 you need abs plastic binding as this melts with acetone you can
make your own glue by melting abs plastic into acetone the best plastic for glue making is the clear plastic for 3d printers as there is no colour pigment to
degrade the adhesive also i put some laquer retarder into the mix to try and get a
longer open time with the binding
i make archtop guitars so binding is a big issue as you know
regards paul rialto guitars
Thanks for that Paul, I finally took the trouble to find some after the comments on this video.. I can't believe I hadn't thought to Google it before now!
Just checked out your site, you are making some fantastic Guitars sir! Thank you for your support.
You can get 99% acetone off ebay Ben, that's what I used to attach my binding.
Instead of using Acetone, perhaps acrylic paint thinner as a substitute.
Where can I get a bearing set for an 8mm or 12mm piece?
I'm on a budget so cheap but not so cheap they are useless :)
hi Ill Whant To Build the next Guitar ... Thnak You!!!!!!!!!!
Binding will not stay in smooth wood like ebony with acetone. You need to scratch it first, so you'll get a mechanical joint.
Called a rabbit cutter in the US.
you may want to warn people about the dangers of acetone to your health - yes I know they should read the labels etc. before using but I've know people who don't do that. To use it safely you should be in a well ventilated area, a fan would be a really good idea and wear a proper respirator.
I get acetone from a hairdressers supply in Ireland
GReat
AHHHHH
8:15 lmao
Nice tats
Less chat and more action, dude!
I'm getting a 64gb memory card for my camera and recommend you do the same! they are cheap enough now!!
My next camera will take up to 128. Like yourself I'm not one of these trust funds kids that can afford cameras worth almost 10k, cars worth 100s of thousands of dollars , has a house mommy and daddy bought for them at 21, has a private company do his editing and music and can afford to smash up 1000s of dollars worth of shit to make an 'entertaining' vid for all the bros y'all. Did you hear that companies such as music man etc are now using a process where they rout out a deep enough channel in the side of the guitar body before they cut it out of the blank, and pump molten plastic tinted to whatever colour into that channel? then they cut get the router to cut the body out right up against that channel and sand to finish, wallah - binding without all the clamping and banding and hassle!
Talking of airfix is'nt wastepipe/drainage pipe glue the same stuff....much cheaper for the kids to get stoned on.
#Truth!
I’ve hobbied ~8-homemade bolt-on guitars but just attempted my 1st to include binding.
I use Dremel. I use ‘more manly’ routers too.
After buying almost all parts ‘required’ to Dremel tool a binding channel, my limited hobbyist instincts brought me fear enough to seek another path.
I found a 15mm rabbetting 1/4” router bit (with 5-different lateral depth circular ball-bearing guides) sold by Amana Tool which instantly brought my abilities the confidence required to attempt this new task.
The sheer weight and spread of my Ryobi standard router, set with Amana Tool guitar binding bit to cut ~14mm-deep, negotiated both cutaways and round my Firebird III non-reverse bolt-on body (with already affixed Koa veneer) like a green Philadelphia lawyer in a civil rights Mississippi court case!
#patience #experience #lutherie
Backups Backups Backups! Redundancy for both hardware and data!
Your eventual IT guy will be furious with you!
Would have been nice to actually see you routing the guitar...
have you ever considered shaving your unibrow?
Don't do it Ben. Lighter fluid won't do it.
Shierwood Instruments bought some acetone already, will play later! :)
Your voice doesn't fit your look. You sound like the wise old professor that helps troubled students. Great video.
blah blah blah, whats with the creepy head tatoos?