The SECRET Formula To Writing Great, Ultra-Modern Chord Progressions
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ม.ค. 2023
- Creating music with a math formula?! Sounds crazy, I know, but keep watching, and you'll see just how well it works and how you can use it for your own music.
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I say this in support of the composer here: Repetition is powerful. Even when a musical idea “doesn’t work,” repetition pretty much always makes it “work.” The ear loves repetition.
(1) (cough, cough) Schillinger (cough, cough) synchronization (cough, cough)
(2) Per Schillinger: down a 3rd, 5th, or a 7th are the "strong" progressions; the rest are "weak".
(3) 7:50 The three ways to make a non-diatonic progression sound good are: (a) smooth voice leading, (b) smooth voice leading, and (c) smooth voice leading.
diatonic-symmetric
@@christopherpaul1810 That, too.
A few years ago while taking classes in composition our professor had us write a 32 bar piece of music using only Roman numerals and some general rules and tendencies like V moves to I, ii moves to V, common tone modulation, V/V, etc etc. It was completely formulaic.
Once he’d checked our work he had us convert our formulaic Roman numerals to arpeggiated chords on the piano using voice-leading and then a string melody on top.
I was stunned by the result. My piece sounded uncannily like Mozart! It showed me that music works.
Your lessons and teachings are some of the best i have found on TH-cam. Music theory has always scared me but you have a really unique ability to explain complex topics in ways that the average player can understand. Yes, you have to have some basic knowledge under your belt but if I can understand it, anyone can! :) Thank you.
I posted that piece of music elsewhere without explanation - and it was universally liked. Now I post it here with the explanation - and I bet a drink of your choice that someone will say: "You can hear it comes with a formula," "it sounds stilted," or "There's no soul in it." Ah, the internet... ;-) EDIT: as foretold by this ancient prophecy (3 days is "ancient" for the internet...), the trolls have arrived. ;-)
No, it sound great! But since I'm seen the video from a small laptop (hard to read the score) and I don't have a piano here, I don't understand well how did you place these chords on the harmony of your composition. One each bar? And I don't get what the red marks correspond to. Can you help me understand?
you could add at the end a view of the same score with the chords written on top.
One chord per bar, and the red bars are the augmented chords.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Thank you, great "trick".
The challenge is to compose a pop melody on top of this harmony ;)
And I wonder: if you move 1 third down, 1 MINOR third down, 1 fifth down, you will have an harmony that will span all the twelve notes.... Would it work?
I came up with one that, I think sounds kinda cool.
m, m7, M, Dom7, M
-3rd -3rd -6th +4th
Am, Em7, C, E7, A, Fm, C#m7, E, B7, G, Em, Gm7, D, B7, G, Bm, F#m7, D, B7, D, Am
I had to come up with voicings that were a little cumbersome at times but it works. Hopefully I counted the intervals properly.
Hi Tomasso! A million thanks for scooting everyone back to the NOTES. Elsewhere there is too much focus on equipment - so great to hear a fresh approach on COMPOSITION of MUSIC. - Evan Hodge, Blue Bee Theme Music.
Wonderful example! Having noticed over time that you can basically sequence almost any chord after another, I find that you can even more improve its cohesion by amplifying the voice leading with an appropriate melody on top. Suddenly what was disjoint before becomes music. :)
"I can stop whenever I want."
-Spoken like a true junkie!
HAHAHAHA best comment so far!
Chromatics Anonymous
And of course, Chromatics anonymous has 12 (half-)steps...
The first thing I notice: going thirds down (although it's usually minor -> major instead) is how you make Opeth songs since the 90's. And secondly: your every cycle start goes around the circle of fifths up. That makes me think there's no way it wouldn't work.
I've never thought of writing a chord progression in such a way. Very interesting. Many thanks!
This is what the Schilinger System calls the diatonic-symmetric harmony, and you can have different schemes or sequences the define the chord quality (which can be anything you choose) independently from the root movement (which is diatonic).
That's eye-opening and explains how chords out of key can be made to sound related by the use of voice leading.
When you go from that major chord to the augmented chord, or from the second minor chord at the end back to the major chord, you may get the suggestion, at least, of a secondary dominant sound, which is non-diatonic the vast majority of the time as used. So, your observation is astute.
Absolutly brilliant idea that leaves literally endless room for imagination - Thank you!!!
Wow, absolutely amazing. Who'd have thought that would work. Your orchestration is good too.
Thanks so much for sharing this approach. I'll be exploring different chord qualities and a variety of interval root movement with different scales. I really enjoy this kind of work. Much appreciated! I've liked and subscribed.
Just stumbled across this video, and is perfect timing for me. Wonderful video. You've got a new subscriber!
Very interesting. And something very new I learned today. I always learn something new from your videos. Thank you so much for all your support. 🙏🙏
Fascinating! I'm going to give this a try on my next composition. Thanks!
Super cool stuff! Great 👍
Loving it!
Love this video as well as your little composition ! I hope there will be other compositions explication like this on your channel, in the movie type.
Thank you!
Love this.
Super duper helpful !!!
I really love this kind of instruction.
Great lesson.thank you very much Maestro
Very cool!
GREAT ideas. Thanks.
23 bars of genius!
Great class 👍
I love it!!!
Excellent!
Definitely stealing this one! Thank you sensei
Wow! So much information! This 14 minute video can send someone down a rabbit hole of chord voicings, augented chords and.... Slash chords? Did I understand this correctly? The chords would sound appropriate provided that the voicings are reasonably close and the roots are all in the same key? C in the example reviewed?
I love your videos
Absolute sorcery. Amazing!
Gracias loko thank you dude
you stole the harmonic base and the dynamics between the accelerandos and slowdowns
Hi Tomasso,
"It may be a mathematical thing" but using that 4 group sequence, M, +, m, m, formula you really are landing the sequence so that the movement is.... C,B,A,G,F,E,D.... etc. In this case because of your formula the so-called "landing" happens to be "minor chord" colours.
The ear can hear the relationship.
Of course the voice leading is essential.
Thank you Tomasso.
Thank you
IMO this is kindof how radio head writes everything. You pick your center (tonic) and you just go crazy from there. Key is just a concept, scale? A suggestion😂
Very helpful
Great video on a fun technique!
I've been doing similar stuff (not exactly the same) for quite a while, myself. I used to call it "beading the chords," cuz it was like picking a few colors of beads and stringing them together. The idea is to pick "colors" that "pop to the mind's eye," so to speak.
For example, I wrote one that's fundamentally all major triads plus one sus4--no other triad types--and adding various 7ths, 9ths, etc., and with mostly the same pentatonic running through it as the melody, AND they were all played as open chord voicings. It has a nice kind of boogie or Southern rock flavor in the rhythm, too. The song has a crazy, tricky change from a Bbmaj7 to a B7 in one spot (the only time I used a root note that's not in C major) that sounds great, and when I nail that change, I feel like a real guitar player--LMAO!
I kinda stole my version of this idea from Kurt Cobain, who wrote many songs in which he strung major chords together but didn't stay in key (the melody sometimes led the chords, and sometimes followed). He got it from punk rock, in which people who only knew one or two shapes would just move those up and down the neck and make ferocious songs that managed to work.
I've played with other similar ideas as well. Eventually, either a cool jam, especially one for exercising someone's improv skills, or a cool song shows up in the work. A lot of it ends up being crap--no hit songs for me yet--but "that's showbiz."
I think the secret is really the smooth voice leading. You can get away with almost anything if you do that :) I reckon that there will be times when the voice leading is not so smooth, and you could just fill in some passing notes to smooth it off.
It's very interesting, but when I heard it first, I felt that there was no direction. It sounded a bit random. Probably because any cadences will be accidental :) Actually in your example, there will never be cadences at all.
In your example, eventually you would get back to a C major chord, and then the whole sequence would start again.
Anyway, it is a very interesting technique. Thank you.
All true. These very same qualities (no direction) are common to a lot of accidental film music or even ballet. It's by design. If you want cadences, you can have a movement by 5th down somewhere in your sequence.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Yes that is true.
I guess we could create a sequence that would be guaranteed to form a cadence at regular intervals. The interesting feature would be that the cadences could effectively be in different keys each time until the whole sequence repeats :)
Actually I think we could use this technique to make some sort of rotating blues progression. Would be interesting to try :)
Or a circle of fifths progression should be easy enough to engineer this way.
I also wonder how much "classical" music could be "analysed" in this way. Might be more than we think. Your particular sequence will take a long time to return to the C major chord, but it would be pretty easy to make a sequence that returns very quickly and which includes a cadence or some sort of traditional turnaround.
this is quite exciting. I think you've invented a new analysis tool :)
I can't take the paternity for this. You can trace similar ideas in music theory to at least 100 years ago - though I suspect them being much older ;-) It's just that nobody talks bout this because "it's a formula".
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Well, we often talk about chord progressions which are generally pretty static things until there's a key change thrown in (if there is). I think that those are also just formulae, and special (and somewhat degenerate) cases of what you've shown.
I was looking at a piece of music yesterday by Carl Stamitz (Romanza from his third clarinet concerto). I like the piece, but I was struck by the fact that it basically alternates between only two chords (I and V), with an occasional augmented chord thrown in. It is so simple that he may easily have been following a really simple formula. I wonder how often we see music and mistake a formula for creativity. Following the rules, or following a familiar formula keeps us safe.
I'm going to use your technique to see if I can analyse some chord progressions and see what small changes I can make to spice up those progressions.
Those early 20th century composers also did these "ultra-modern " chord progressions. As a composer you can do the most extreme things but you must connect the dots "properly". That's the only thing to know about music or art in general.
I immediately subbed
I love this mathematical approach and directly calling it a mathematical approach. I haven't seen anyone really describing musical ideas with formulas like this and music theory in general makes way more sense to me after watching this video, it's a really helpful way to reframe what I know and inform the way I frame my studies in the future. Subscribing!!
Check out the Schillinger System. This is basically a small part of one section of one of his books, but the entire approach is essentially this kind of thing applied to all aspects of music.
@@masterchain3335 definitely will seek that out, thanks for the rec!
“Just because I’m a bastard”. Got you a like. Great tutorial. Thanks
With infinite permutations, that's a cure for composer's block! Thanks as always for the tip. Gonna have to implement in midi for now. I brilliantly just shattered the bones in my left wrist last week. 😭
I played saxophone in school and took a year of music theory. This reminds me a lot of my music theory class. Love it!
There is so much math and incredible patterns involved. You can apply patterns in nature to this theory as well.
Didn’t Beethoven basically use this type of theory when he wrote since he was deaf?
kewl!
Cool technique and great for composing orchestral instruments. Highlighting the voice leading in the melody makes it sound more “correct.” Fundamentally, it is just a weird 4 chord progression that cycles the circle of 5ths- but very cool none the less. Thanks for the inspiration!
“Chromatic mediant”… learned something new today. But seriously, cool video, inspiring concept.
This was very helpful; my mind went to closest fingerings as soon as you wrote out the progression. Slap some cadences on that puppy and solo.
this works complete with pitch shift theory. i feel it at lower tempos but if i speed it up it start to sound a bit crazy - but not bad at all
Very good video with a simple but interesting harmonic idea. The piece has enough instrumental separation to go with the tight voice leading.
Can anyone (including Tomasso) tell me what instrument samples he's using?
The software is called Staffpad. I am using the add-ons for Berlin Orchestra.
wow. i learn something new on how to extract a chord progression pattern so it can be used somewhere else
Sir, please make a playlist on strumming from beginner to pro 🙏🏼 I am really struggling in it
It's 95% practise practise practise
Oh, now I get it! Essential to see that those three steps change the chord choices ongoing. But why do you take the Bm in the first line, when you could take Cm as a 5th?
Because I'm going down a 5th, not up a 5th.
Would be interesting to loop the progression, then play a melody over it (following the changing notes) to literally demonstrate the voice leading. (This is in the orchestral version, but hearing it on guitar would be illuminating (?))
I love this kinds of musical games! Does anybody have a recommendation of some book about similar explorations/concepts?
I shall try it….. my thought was why not!!!!!!!!!?!
Mother of god, this is mind blowing.
Music theory will not kill my creativity
wow
This is really interesting. This may be a strange request but could you analyze the anime/j pop chord progressions lol. I don't really do them myself but it would be awesome for my community to know because I know it's like American pop using the I-V-vi-IV. And they have their own chord progression too only they use a specific key change and put it in an 8 bar chord progression. Anymore info on that would be awesome if you may know any. Could be general, like analyzing something from spirited away or something. Thanks!
This is a really great "free-ish" way to write chord progressions! Even though he didn't explicitly use the term when explaining how to make the initial "block-ish" sound of the chords sound smoother, he's really refering to "voice leading", which is usually a little more involved than simply "making the notes closer together".
One thing I have to take issue with though:
It's not new at all. It's been done for nearly 200 years by the Impressionists, the Expressionists and other "modern" classical composers. These techniques are also used in Jazz quite a bit.
The main take away though is that you can make almost any chord progression "work" by treating the chords as individual voices and mess around with them to voice lead them.
I never said it was "new" :-) But I do think I mentioned "voice leading" in the video.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Hi - Well...at 12:10 , you say it's "completely new", so that's what I was reacting to.
But you're right - less than a minute before that, you DID use the term "voice leading". Sorry I missed that.
Please know that I think your video is really great! I don't want to seem like I'm being negative. You're doing a great thing here. Your viewers are going to try what you've shown them and also try variations. It's going to be a huge boost to their creativity and be quite freeing for them.
Thanks for the content!
Ah, heck, so I DID say that :) Ok, it's not 'new', as similar ideas have been around for a while, but it's definitely 'uncommon' and not taught in the vast majority of music theory book/courses. I'm glad my YT audience is keeping me honest!
This is ridiculous! Ridiculously great!
This is madness! This is ridiculous! Ridiculous? This is Sparta!
HAHAHA
@@christopherheckman7957 Haha! Nice.
is it correct ? u changing simply c modes from ionian to dorian to phrygian to lydian (1-6-5-7 chords from each mode)
The piece you play here is very "cinematic". That's ok, I like cinematic orchestral music.
That top bar count is a really neat bit of UX design. What program is it?
Staffpad
Is Bb the 5th below F? why Bnatural?
Sounds like the Raimi Spiderman Trilogy soundtrack meets the Barbie Nutcracker
Accurate
It's not _just_ a mathematical trick: by using 3rds and 5ths, you're making it much more likely that chords share common tones, aren't you?
Hello many thanks for your very instructive videos...at 5 min you go down a 5th of F and you say it's a B...you puzzle me because for me it's a Bb ...so I don't know what to think is it a 4+ or is it a B because we are in the key of C...many thanks for your answer and have a beautiful day
A 5th in the key of C, so occasionally, it's a diminished 5th.
Just for clarity, the glue here is using inversions so the bass note relates to the last played chord (and to keep it in the same octave)?
No, the glue is correct voice leading in the upper parts.
The intricate or complicated stuff only sound good on the piano due to the closer voice leading and of course the Harmony and notes at the same time.
Of course not. Plenty of complex music is arranged in open/late voicing, and it sounds great on any instrument.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar I play the guitar and understand what you mean but in comparison; do the test; the same complicated thing sounds better in the piano; yes, still sound ok on the guitar but better on the piano due to all the notes one beside the other and fatter sound.
If asked what key the piece is in, what do you answer?
"It's not in a key. The bass is in C major, arguably, but the chords are not"
Hi Tommaso ! I thought that chromatic mediants should be : 1) a thrid apart, 2) not in the same key, but also... 3) of the same quality. So when Fm & Bm is OK, C and A+ should not be called a chromatic mediant. Am I wrong?
I could be wrong, but I think the idea is to keep the same kind of third from the root, but the fifth and other intervals can vary or subsequently modulate as needed. Major and augmented are related this way (both have major thirds from the root), as are minor and diminished (minor thirds from the root); you could even think of augmented and diminished triads as altered major and minor chords, respectively (one sharpens the fifth, the other flattens it). I think this keeps to the spirit of chromatic mediants, while giving a bit of wiggle room--although, TBH, I generally dislike augmented chords and try to avoid them in my own work.
Some theorists say that should be the same quality others say It can be other qualities.
its all very danny elfman and batmanesque
Ah, diatonic-symmetric chords (Schillinger System of Musical Composition 1946)
Will the chord progression he mentioned ever repeat?
Yes, it will repeat after 84 chords.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Amazing! How did you figure that out? Next video, compose a song using the full progression!
Someone says, “That’s just math!”
Music is literally math. Literally.
Yes!
Musical composition, however, is computer programming.
Musical composition would be computer programming if we could find a way to have musicians who follow indications...
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Frank Zappa ultimately solved that problem with the Synclavier.
(Wow, those rec's and replies sure came fast ...)
Creep but wrote by a classical major
Only problem is that F doesn't have E next in line. F,G,A,B,C. So you are back to C.
DOWN a fifth...
Does this also work with the keyboard?
Actually sounds better on keyboards
Yes. I dunno if it sounds better on keyboard - it sounds pretty good on guitar to me. YMMV.
Because the timbre is different, and that can influence the harmonics in the chords. For some people this makes a lot of difference, for others not so much.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Also, the range is different. A long chord progression with smooth voice leading can easily lead to "drifting".
For instance, recently from Reddit, someone asked about the progression C# - E - B - F#. If you put in smooth voice-leading, after 3 repetitions (12 chords), you're an octave below where you started.
It's also possible that one "line" of the voicing might move up and another one move down, making the voicing of the chord span a larger and larger interval. Get above a 2-octave difference, and you'll have trouble playing the whole chord.
That chord progression sounded like it didn't know where to start, or where to go once it got started.
Reminds me of what happens when you rub a cat's fur the wrong way. Some cats like it but...
How is this better than generating random chords? I don't feel I learned something about music here.
Random chords are random. The one in the video is a pattern that your ear picks up easily. Test: do the same with random chords.
I keep using spaghetti for guitar strings and I'm eating my best work. Please advise.
Oh mamma mia! I spilled-a spaghetti all over la mia gittara!
Just because I'm a b*st*rd ... so funny.
I think he should call this piece of music, "Just Cuz I'm a Bastard!" 🤣
"It's just a mathematical thing".... I would ask them, which parts of music are not???
indeed!
Radiohead?
Sounds mathematical
13 minutes, and you haven't played the changes so we can hear what they sound like in your chosen voice leading once...
Another genius that skims through the video and then complains that parts are missing...
Basically just serialism.