With old ears & damaged hearing, I don't have to worry about all these claims of audible differences in speakers, amps, wires, DAC's, etc, etc. Saves me a lot of $$$
I remember calling Audioquest in the 90's, pre internet, to ask someone about their cables. I surprisingly got Bill Low on the phone and we talked for over an hour. He was telling me how he was working in a stereo store in California when Monster Cable came out. It inspired him to create his own company. I ended up getting several owners on the phone when calling for questions,, which initially surprised me. I realized how much of a cottage industry it was. It wasn't like calling up Pioneer or even Harman Kardon. I'm sure people used to be able to get ahold of someone like Saul Marantz at one point.
It looks like people STILL can't spell "Harman Kardon", and neither can they have any common sense when it comes to wires :) How can you compare Saul Marantz to those other numbwits?
@@d0sk3yTrigger alert! I edited and changed the o to an a. Are you happy now? I only mention Bill Low because of Paul's story. I've had several phone conversations with people from the industry including speaker and amplifier manufacters. I'm a little reticent to list names because they might not meet your standards or I might misspell another name.
The inductance per unit length of an 'open wire' transmission line (e.g. a speaker cable pair) is given as ~ 0.9log(D/a) micro Henrys per metre, where 'D' is the centre to centre separation and 'a' the radius of the wire. So for a 2mm radius conductor separated from its twin by 4.5mm, the inductance for a ten metre cable is around 3.2 uH, or about 0.4 Ohms in magnitude at 20kHz. N.B. If the distance between the wires is increased, the series inductance also increases. The concomitant shunt capacitance at 20kHz is around 0.9nF (~9kOhm) [Ref. Chapter 8, Principles of Radar, Radar School MIT McGraw-Hill 1946]
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the effect is less to do with decreasing inductance and more to do with decreasing capacitance. The inductance should be very low, unless you coil your cable, which you should avoid. The resistance is basically fixed, as the conductor gauge and length aren't changing. But spacing the "poles" of the cable further apart will reduce capacitance. It's that capacitance when combined with the relatively fixed inductance and resistance of the cable that creates the low pass filter. So spacing the poles will reduce high frequency roll off and that is audible in some situations.
So many of you are focusing on inductance and capacitance, but for 20ft runs and 20kHz of say 14 awg stranded copper wire speaker cable, the quantities of inductive or capacitive reactance are negligible to the better part of an order of magnitude higher in frequency.. Nobody cares about 100kHz. Not even a dog ! 🤣 I’m even willing to bet that most of you that have been on the planet since 1980 wouldn’t even be able to hear the 15.7 kHz (more or less, depending on NTSC or PAL) horizontal oscillator emanating from the old CRT televisions..😉
@Douglas Blake Yes! You have nailed it, my friend. I see and hear a lot of erroneous crap coming out of people in “the business” out here on the internet. I’m not saying they’re all liars, but there’s just too much rehashed misinformation that undermines the ability for anyone to set the record straight.👨🏻 Just because a belief is held by a majority, that doesn’t make it so. In fact, there’s a chance that it’s wrong, due to the very nature of majority acceptance. Oh, the irony, lol.
I must admit that most of my experience in this area is with instrument cables. All I can say is that switching to a cable that's 55pF per meter from one that's 125+pF per meter has an audible improvement in high frequency extension. The effect may be less relevant to speaker cable but there are other things to consider. Such as the fact that not all amplifiers have a zobel network on their output, or other such circuits to compensate for high capacitance speaker cable. I can think of one particular manufacturer that will not honour the warranty on their amps if the customer has used any other cable than their low capacitance cable. Using high capacitance cable with those amps can cause damage. That same manufacturer recommends spacing cables out to reduce capacitance.
@Douglas Blake Yes, but the inductive and capacitive impedances of a piece of speaker cable at those frequencies is totally negligible, compared to the load impedance of even the most abusive of speakers (like Martin Logan ESL's). The response dip at those frequencies would amount to a fraction of a dB.
@@_David_E_ Yes, I don't doubt that some high end amp designers are ideologically opposed to Zoebels, so the speaker cable becomes the Zoebel. But as an ESL fancier for most of my adult audiophile life, I would certainly not buy an amp that can't take a few pF of capacitance across it!
Monster Cable was the brand of my first cable upgrades, back in the early ‘90s. First speaker wire, then interconnects for my CD changer. I was amazed by the sonic differences and haven’t looked back at “courtesy” wires since. Your mentioning the brand brought back sweet memories. Thanks Paul
Yes Paul, those IRS 5s, (named that because you get audited 5 times if you can afford them) are just a-WASTING away there and you need to ship them (at your expense of course) to me here 100 miles north of Cherahnuh. (Toronto for those of youz who don't speak Canadian)
Yeah, I used Monster Cable back in the 90's. The cable ran from my amp in my equipment rack on the right side of the room, along the carpet to the speakers that were on opposite sides of the sliding glass doors to our deck. The doors were covered with heavy curtains. The copper in the cable that ran to the left speaker along the outside of the track for the doors all turned green!
I would too. I have seen some cars that come with twisted speaker wires, but it's entirely possible that their reasons have nothing to do with sound quality. Seems like that should be easy enough to prove or disprove with a scope (at least the theory).
Yes, lamp cord mentioned in the operator's manual of JBL's L100a model speakers I bought in 1978. JBL said, if you're going to use it, they recommended a certain gauge. I end-up buying a pair of Monster speaker cables. At that time, they were very popular. In the mid to late 1980s I bought a pair of JBL Ti 250's and boxed-up the L100a's along with the Monster cables. About 20 to 25 years later I unboxed the L100a's, reached in and grabbed the Monster and was greeted with a handful of very, very sticky cables. Something leaked through the clear plastic, or something happened to the plastic coating around the cables. The speakers were always stored at room temp in a closet. Well, those cables hit the trash can. Weird.......
Some kinds of plastics, particularly flexible ones, break down chemically over time; some in fact in very little time. This is one reason why remote controls develop problems --- the rubbery stuff used for the buttons oozes a sticky goo that keeps the conductive carbon dots from doing their job. Cleaning up the mess usually cures the trouble. With equal success I have used (one only of) Dawn detergent, alcohol, or a very good quality non-lubricating contact cleaner.
@@spacemissing I did hit one of them with a little alcohol and had good results, but I had bought new cables for my new speakers. Tried giving them away to friends but had no takers.
Very simple. There is no good reason for the cables being combined, so seperatly is the way to go. Expensive fixes like Paul tells about, are often only expensive, not more effective. I've got great sounding cables, thin, run seperatly, but they are a league better then all others i tried...And Paul, if you miss the IRS's, just hook then up again, I more think that they had to go out of service as they sound better then the PS audio speakers, understandably...
Yes I have all dragon cables for speakers, signal, power. Yes they are very expensive. Even if you know someone and can get them at a good discount to do all the cables in the many tens of thousands at a minimum depending on the run length. The Dragons are custom made to order and pre-burned in before shipping out. They still say they want to see 100hrs of play time before they mellow in and smooth out some. On first play they can be a little technical and bright but then round out and warm up later on while still keeping the clarity. You can get done but the FOOT when ordering which is what I did. Consider if you ever change rooms from small to medium to larger room you might want to pay extra for the longer speaker cable run because they cannot add onto it later to make longer.
🙋♂️I started out with lamp cord,graduated to MONSTER CABLE went onto others and ended up with TARA LABS RSC PRIME 1000 🤗👍💚💚💚 LEST I FORGET…I learned a lot from a younger,very experienced , but totally UNBIASED ( actually refused to give me his opinion) AND WE ARE STILL FRIENDS TO THIS DAY 🤗😎💚💚💚
I made a RCA cable to plug in to AUX the device. Ethernet Cat 5, it has a kind of mesh and aluminum, more copper (one, two or three lines is it was needed), _and I'm friend of nine cats and three dogs_
It would be pointless to argue with Paul's statement that separated zip cord wires sound better than paired. As the voice from the back of the audience in that Firesign Theater album says, "That's metapheesically absurd, mun, how can I know what you hear?". But regarding the statement that separate wires have less inductance than paired wires, I can confidently say it's wrong. Yes, capacitance decreases as you separate the wires, but inductance increases. The simplest way to visualize this is to note that for a given current I, the magnetic field B cancels more completely as the equal and opposite currents move closer together. The largest B can be in any case is at the surface of one of the wires. The total energy due to the field B is proportional to B^2 integrated over all space. It follows that as the spatial extent of B becomes more localized as the wires move together, the energy decreases. But the energy is also proportional to L*I^2, where L is the inductance. Therefore, L must decrease as the wires move together to more completely cancel the magnetic field. Most of the concepts needed to understand this can be found in any decent intermediate college level textbook on electricity and magnetism intended for physics or engineering majors. When I read a "white paper" by some cable manufacturer describing how electrons or signals flow through his cables that has almost nothing in common with accepted science, I like to quote the physicist Wolfgang Pauli: "Not only is this not right, it's not even wrong". In the case of Paul's statement about inductance, though, it's merely wrong.
I have a Bi-Wire set of "Anti-Cable" speaker wires, running from a Rega Elex-r to a pair of Legacy Studio Monitor speakers. The "Anti-Cables" are solid copper wire, not woven strands and flexible, but bendable like mag-wire/armature wire. The bi-wire set (4 wires) float in the air since they are so stiff, almost completely independently of each other and only meet up and touch each other when they insert into the Rega amp. Am I getting the benefits Paul mentions like 'separating lamp cord' into each strand; less inductance/interference from one wire to the other? I've used other speaker wire (Silver Sonic bi-wire, Western Electric tinned copper, Cardas), and of all that I have tried, the "Anti-Cables" sounded best. Wonder if the separated conductors is one of the aspects that helps with that?
@@beans4gas 😀😀😀😀👍🤗 Bluetooth 😀👍 Nikola Tesla was working on wireless electricity..👍 Henry Ford and Thomas Edison put an end to that idea 💡 Nikola Tesla died a poor man and shamed for being a wacko because he envisioned bringing electricity to everyone for free.
Before monster cable Bob Fulton had his brown and gold cables. Had he been more of a businessman he could have made something of it. He also had some excellent interconnects. L
So If I have a single line of cable for each positive and negative[GND] on the cable to the speaker, which I do today I am better of twisting them together (which i do for interconnects) They currently are just generally following the same path from amplifier to speaker.
My speakers sound bright so I use 600 ft of speaker cable, helps roll off the top frequency's lol. I think we have a lot of people whom put way too much emphasis (and $$) on wires and cables. Just get adequate copper, connectors, length, and gauge and spend the rest of that money somewhere else in your system or records/CD's. Maybe it's cause I don't have a $50k plus system but I don't think cables should be making or breaking the sound of ones stereo set up.
Given the extremely low source impedance of your average S.S. amp, load impedance of the average 8 ohm speaker and crossover network, average cable length and at audio frequencies, does the math indicate there will be any roll-off in the audible range? By how many dB at what frequency? I.E. what is the cable's inductance, how much does it change and does it have any impact at audible frequencies?
Did I get this right: From your amp, 10K speaker wire connects to the speaker terminal and then Monster Cables connect the speaker to the terminal. Is that correct?
After having issues with a set of Star Quad speaker cables I shotgunned (one pair for + one pair for -) some Monster Cables terminated with locking bananas on both sides. Measurable increase in dynamic range. Amp ran cooler. I typically just then randomly on the carpet to stop any parallel lengths. But I like the braiding idea and will have to do that. Thanks! Been watching a lot of physics videos discussing energy and information transmission across wires. There was a big blowup in the TH-cam physics world a few months back about how long it actually takes for current to flow thru wire especially extreme lengths of wire. I think this one started it off. youtube. com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY&t=24s.
How did you measure this "measurable" increase in dynamic range? And let me guess: you're NOT an electrical engineer, and neither are any of your friends
@@d0sk3y I used an SPL meter. Does this confuse you? You just can't get anything right can you? I have a degree in Electronics, an FCC Broadcast license, repair and design my own test and audio equipment, built speakers, I have literally designed and sold TV stations, satellite trucks, ... I lived in Nashville working as a Rep for the top audio products, as a member of AES I sold to recording studios there. Introduced AT mics to the Opry stage, .. travelled giving seminars and clinics on amps, speakers, ... ran a regional major brand warrantee repair station in Atlanta. Oh ya, I came in 2nd place for National Service Manager Studer/ Revox while in Nashville. They did not like my handwriting examples I had to submit. I moved to Video and then computers where I gave lectures on test and measurement of HDTV and disc based editing for HDTV to SMPTE conferences. Just retired after selling leading edge IT around the world. Oh and I am surrounded by audio/ electronics people. Not just friends, but my two oldest sons have impressive old school audio systems. They each won 1st place in a state wide HS electronics contest sponsored by one of the Top Ten Engineering Colleges in the US, MSOE, in their respective years. One also won 1st place in computer programming in a contest there as well. While in HS he had a laminated hall pass and would be sent to other schools in the district to do their IT. One worked on the bench repairing audio and video. We can all troubleshoot to component levels. Other questions?
If you wanted to space the positive and negative cables apart to reduce inductance, how much distance is needed between the cables? I sense a 3D printing project coming on.
I caught that also. Most lamp cord is 18 AWG - which by the way is what I still use. I understand that 16, 14, 12 AWG zip cord is used for high current drawing applications.
@@osliverpool Yes. I got into audio and video just before 1980. I do remember the clear 'speaker wire' that was available nearly everywhere being about that AWG size.
I'm kinda shocked, I understand the look of a speaker has little to do with the sound it produces, but I thought the back side of your speakers would have a more finished look. Is there a screen that covers it?
I am happy that my ear is not as good as most of yours. I have tried in my own systems and in others and I never find any improvement. A different thing is in the case you have to throw long cords
if you have noticed a difference in the audio between thirty years: with a new set of Monster Cable the miscoscopic difference in audio or osciloscope will be shown, but the ears after 25 years will hear a different thing.
ok....going way back to using ROMEX for the "low" end and the thinner "ZIP CORD" for "high" end.....presumed to be tied in parallel runs to the 2 poles.....WOULD YOU NOW...say separate the conductors in that scenario ? SO parallel wire tied to parallel wire to be clear on parallel runs...so 4 conductors all together.....Hmm but what about 2 positive conductors as one thick and one thin....and a common ground conductor as the "return" ?? What are your thoughts on the 3 conductor and 4 conductor aspect ? What is implied, is that the HIGH AND LOW are a 2 way system ...what if you add in the 3rd with a mid-range driver and the complexed crossover....in a single amplifier setup...but hmm what about a Bi-Amp or a Tri-Amp ? ALL a MEANS TO AN END...and how you get there....
This explanation is totally incorrect. Paul confuses inductance with capacitance. Conductors run close together have a high capacitance and low inductance. Separating the conductors reduces capacitance but increases inductance. Unless the cable run is extremely long these effects will be way below audibility . The important parameter is cable resistance. Juft choose a sensible gauge wire to minimise any effects. No need for expensive cables.
Mind you, when I put in some numbers, the series inductance does creep up a bit for longer runs of something with sensible dimensions...but yes, don't separate the pair expecting to reduce inductance!
A friend of mine used to not only split them apart but also parallel wire each run with dissimilar wires. He said it cancelled out the deficiencies of each wire. I don't know.
Hmm....not sold on problems of "zip cord" also known as speaker wire simply because were are dealing with frequencies not frequencies which is a whole different world when discussing cables. Speaker wires can be twisted, known as "twisted pair" and done in heavy gauge wire which btw can be done DIY to reject external electrical interference, seems like a good thing right? Well not buying that when considering levels driving speakers simply because whatever tiny amount of interference there might be is absolutely buried (think S/N (signal to noise ratio)) under signal levels of speaker outputs. There is a very simple way to cut through all the marketing involved in cables. Free tip: Connect an Oscilloscope to the amps output, observe signal, noise, freq. response and whatever your concerned about. Now do the same at the speaker terminals (to observe the differences) Now throw in those super oxygen free 8 gauge etc. etc. etc. expensive cables and compare. Note Oscopes can display values far beyond anyone's golden ears unless you can hear radio frequencies. Speaker wire is about last on my list of where to spend $ on hi-fi. Start with 70~80 percent in your speakers. If you can't float that then start with a good set of headphones and save until you can afford a set of speakers to do your system and room justice. Another tip based on facts: Learn basic Ohm's law (easy). Now look up the ohmic values of even 18 gauge wire, notice the values are listed per Of course there is the dreaded blind A/B testing (dreaded by those trying to justify $ spent on super duper audio cables) I'm not an Audio Engineer but a retired Electronics Technician and previous mixing tech for a large venue who has always had a fascination with home HiFi and a passion for great music. Sorry but I would trust the average HiFi salesperson about as much as I would a car salesman. When people don't know a subject they can be told almost anything and many will believe it. Sorry this got too long, HiFi misinformation is just one of my pet peeves. Next someone will tell me their music sounds better on a full moon especially when cables are levitated.
This is correct, Paul got it mixed up. Separated wires increase the inductance (L) reducing capacitance (C) and close-up wires vice versa. Reducing L for speaker wires is more important than reducing C as the impedance of C will be parallel to the speaker just loading the amp, but the L impedance will be in series with the speaker reducing its efficiency for the highs.
Inductance is caused by changing magnetic field strength. Coiling wires increases inductance by concentrating the magnetic field. Capacitance is caused by separating two metal objects, the closer (less separated) and larger the shared mutual size, the bigger effect. It is also affected by what material separated them, e.g. air does not work as well as wax paper. Inductance is connected to the magnetic field which expands and collapses around the wire while capacitance is connected to the two energy fields that radiate perpendicular to the wires at 90° to each other. (Very simplified) When two wires are run in parallel you then also get the Transmission Line effect. This is represented (schematically and mathematically) by a continual series (and parallel) of capacitance, inductance and resistance. So yes two wires run in parallel with close proximity would have higher L. However when two wires are braided their point of contact is no longer linear and parallel. It is close to 90° at each intersection. Those the magnetic lines of force is reduced between them. Lowering the L. But C is how much total surface area, how far apart and separated by what. Two wires touching and run in parallel would have a greater common surface area closer together than a braid.
This explanation is totally incorrect. Paul confuses inductance with capacitance. Conductors run close together have a high capacitance and low inductance. Separating the conductors reduces capacitance but increases inductance. Unless the cable run is extremely long these effects will be way below audibility . The important parameter is cable resistance. Juft choose a sensible gauge wire to minimise any effects. No need for expensive cables.
What is the big deal about moving the camera to where you want to show something close-up other than your 'live' stand up portion .. it's like a live stream .. very natural not a processed jump cut segments that are REALLY annoying in most videos here on TH-cam !!
I have never heard the difference between speaker cables once you get them thick enough to get their resistance down to a non influential level. Skin effect, inter-core capacitance and inductance play no audible effect at audio frequencies. It's not practical but welding cable makes a big difference compared to lighting flex. Although more practical but not elegant, I use 6mm solid copper house wiring cable. The problem with down to earth practical solutions is that they don't have a brand name for audiophiles to brag about and argue the toss over.
Chinese copper sucks. It’s brittle strands break easily. It’s not 100% copper. It’s blended with other cheap metals in the process. Chinese food and Chinese music..👍 Throw in a few Chinese girls and you have one hell of a party..😎🤗
With old ears & damaged hearing, I don't have to worry about all these claims of audible differences in speakers, amps, wires, DAC's, etc, etc. Saves me a lot of $$$
I remember calling Audioquest in the 90's, pre internet, to ask someone about their cables. I surprisingly got Bill Low on the phone and we talked for over an hour. He was telling me how he was working in a stereo store in California when Monster Cable came out. It inspired him to create his own company.
I ended up getting several owners on the phone when calling for questions,, which initially surprised me. I realized how much of a cottage industry it was. It wasn't like calling up Pioneer or even Harman Kardon. I'm sure people used to be able to get ahold of someone like Saul Marantz at one point.
It looks like people STILL can't spell "Harman Kardon", and neither can they have any common sense when it comes to wires :) How can you compare Saul Marantz to those other numbwits?
@@d0sk3yTrigger alert! I edited and changed the o to an a. Are you happy now?
I only mention Bill Low because of Paul's story. I've had several phone conversations with people from the industry including speaker and amplifier manufacters.
I'm a little reticent to list names because they might not meet your standards or I might misspell another name.
The inductance per unit length of an 'open wire' transmission line (e.g. a speaker cable pair) is given as ~ 0.9log(D/a) micro Henrys per metre, where 'D' is the centre to centre separation and 'a' the radius of the wire. So for a 2mm radius conductor separated from its twin by 4.5mm, the inductance for a ten metre cable is around 3.2 uH, or about 0.4 Ohms in magnitude at 20kHz.
N.B. If the distance between the wires is increased, the series inductance also increases.
The concomitant shunt capacitance at 20kHz is around 0.9nF (~9kOhm)
[Ref. Chapter 8, Principles of Radar, Radar School MIT McGraw-Hill 1946]
Very incomplete and misleading analysis based on current advanced applied sciences that are currently in effect today.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the effect is less to do with decreasing inductance and more to do with decreasing capacitance. The inductance should be very low, unless you coil your cable, which you should avoid. The resistance is basically fixed, as the conductor gauge and length aren't changing. But spacing the "poles" of the cable further apart will reduce capacitance. It's that capacitance when combined with the relatively fixed inductance and resistance of the cable that creates the low pass filter. So spacing the poles will reduce high frequency roll off and that is audible in some situations.
So many of you are focusing on inductance and capacitance, but for 20ft runs and 20kHz of say 14 awg stranded copper wire speaker cable, the quantities of inductive or capacitive reactance are negligible to the better part of an order of magnitude higher in frequency.. Nobody cares about 100kHz.
Not even a dog ! 🤣 I’m even willing to bet that most of you that have been on the planet since 1980 wouldn’t even be able to hear the 15.7 kHz (more or less, depending on NTSC or PAL) horizontal oscillator emanating from the old CRT televisions..😉
@Douglas Blake Yes! You have nailed it, my friend.
I see and hear a lot of erroneous crap coming out of people in “the business” out here on
the internet. I’m not saying they’re all liars,
but there’s just too much rehashed misinformation that undermines the ability for anyone to set the record straight.👨🏻 Just because a belief is held by a majority, that doesn’t make it so. In fact, there’s a chance that it’s wrong, due to the very nature of majority acceptance.
Oh, the irony, lol.
I must admit that most of my experience in this area is with instrument cables. All I can say is that switching to a cable that's 55pF per meter from one that's 125+pF per meter has an audible improvement in high frequency extension. The effect may be less relevant to speaker cable but there are other things to consider. Such as the fact that not all amplifiers have a zobel network on their output, or other such circuits to compensate for high capacitance speaker cable. I can think of one particular manufacturer that will not honour the warranty on their amps if the customer has used any other cable than their low capacitance cable. Using high capacitance cable with those amps can cause damage. That same manufacturer recommends spacing cables out to reduce capacitance.
@Douglas Blake Yes, but the inductive and capacitive impedances of a piece of speaker cable at those frequencies is totally negligible, compared to the load impedance of even the most abusive of speakers (like Martin Logan ESL's). The response dip at those frequencies would amount to a fraction of a dB.
@@_David_E_ Yes, I don't doubt that some high end amp designers are ideologically opposed to Zoebels, so the speaker cable becomes the Zoebel. But as an ESL fancier for most of my adult audiophile life, I would certainly not buy an amp that can't take a few pF of capacitance across it!
Monster Cable was the brand of my first cable upgrades, back in the early ‘90s. First speaker wire, then interconnects for my CD changer. I was amazed by the sonic differences and haven’t looked back at “courtesy” wires since. Your mentioning the brand brought back sweet memories. Thanks Paul
still use them! Along with audioquest and Moon audio and other brands in the system. Monster sounded better than all the others I tried.
Yes Paul, those IRS 5s, (named that because you get audited 5 times if you can afford them) are just a-WASTING away there and you need to ship them (at your expense of course) to me here 100 miles north of Cherahnuh. (Toronto for those of youz who don't speak Canadian)
Yeah, I used Monster Cable back in the 90's. The cable ran from my amp in my equipment rack on the right side of the room, along the carpet to the speakers that were on opposite sides of the sliding glass doors to our deck. The doors were covered with heavy curtains. The copper in the cable that ran to the left speaker along the outside of the track for the doors all turned green!
I'd like to see a legitimate scientific test proving that.
I would too. I have seen some cars that come with twisted speaker wires, but it's entirely possible that their reasons have nothing to do with sound quality. Seems like that should be easy enough to prove or disprove with a scope (at least the theory).
Yes, lamp cord mentioned in the operator's manual of JBL's L100a model speakers I bought in 1978. JBL said, if you're going to use it, they recommended a certain gauge. I end-up buying a pair of Monster speaker cables. At that time, they were very popular. In the mid to late 1980s I bought a pair of JBL Ti 250's and boxed-up the L100a's along with the Monster cables. About 20 to 25 years later I unboxed the L100a's, reached in and grabbed the Monster and was greeted with a handful of very, very sticky cables. Something leaked through the clear plastic, or something happened to the plastic coating around the cables. The speakers were always stored at room temp in a closet. Well, those cables hit the trash can. Weird.......
Some kinds of plastics, particularly flexible ones, break down chemically over time; some in fact in very little time.
This is one reason why remote controls develop problems --- the rubbery stuff used for the buttons
oozes a sticky goo that keeps the conductive carbon dots from doing their job.
Cleaning up the mess usually cures the trouble.
With equal success I have used (one only of) Dawn detergent, alcohol, or a very good quality non-lubricating contact cleaner.
@@spacemissing
I did hit one of them with a little alcohol and had good results, but I had bought new cables for my new speakers. Tried giving them away to friends but had no takers.
Nice i still run my old monster cable speaker wires from 18 years ago sounds great is air tight shielding
In the 80’s, Monster actually had a cable that was separated in one molded strand!!
Very simple. There is no good reason for the cables being combined, so seperatly is the way to go. Expensive fixes like Paul tells about, are often only expensive, not more effective. I've got great sounding cables, thin, run seperatly, but they are a league better then all others i tried...And Paul, if you miss the IRS's, just hook then up again, I more think that they had to go out of service as they sound better then the PS audio speakers, understandably...
"There is no good reason for the cables being combined"
Unless you're opposed to cable clutter, which I certainly am.
@@ziqfriq there are speakers with wireless connection. That will solve your issue.
My home system is hooked up by Monster cable (interconnects and speaker cables).
Yes I have all dragon cables for speakers, signal, power. Yes they are very expensive. Even if you know someone and can get them at a good discount to do all the cables in the many tens of thousands at a minimum depending on the run length. The Dragons are custom made to order and pre-burned in before shipping out. They still say they want to see 100hrs of play time before they mellow in and smooth out some. On first play they can be a little technical and bright but then round out and warm up later on while still keeping the clarity. You can get done but the FOOT when ordering which is what I did. Consider if you ever change rooms from small to medium to larger room you might want to pay extra for the longer speaker cable run because they cannot add onto it later to make longer.
Very funny.
Burn-in is Total BS, entirely a psychological effect.
🙋♂️I started out with lamp cord,graduated to MONSTER CABLE went onto others and ended up with TARA LABS RSC PRIME 1000 🤗👍💚💚💚
LEST I FORGET…I learned a lot from a younger,very experienced , but totally UNBIASED ( actually refused to give me his opinion) AND WE ARE STILL FRIENDS TO THIS DAY 🤗😎💚💚💚
I made a RCA cable to plug in to AUX the device.
Ethernet Cat 5, it has a kind of mesh and aluminum, more copper (one, two or three lines is it was needed), _and I'm friend of nine cats and three dogs_
@@georgemartinezza THANKS 🤗GEORGE FOR SHARING YOUR JOURNEY 😎💚💚💚
It would be pointless to argue with Paul's statement that separated zip cord wires sound better than paired. As the voice from the back of the audience in that Firesign Theater album says, "That's metapheesically absurd, mun, how can I know what you hear?". But regarding the statement that separate wires have less inductance than paired wires, I can confidently say it's wrong. Yes, capacitance decreases as you separate the wires, but inductance increases.
The simplest way to visualize this is to note that for a given current I, the magnetic field B cancels more completely as the equal and opposite currents move closer together. The largest B can be in any case is at the surface of one of the wires. The total energy due to the field B is proportional to B^2 integrated over all space. It follows that as the spatial extent of B becomes more localized as the wires move together, the energy decreases. But the energy is also proportional to L*I^2, where L is the inductance. Therefore, L must decrease as the wires move together to more completely cancel the magnetic field. Most of the concepts needed to understand this can be found in any decent intermediate college level textbook on electricity and magnetism intended for physics or engineering majors.
When I read a "white paper" by some cable manufacturer describing how electrons or signals flow through his cables that has almost nothing in common with accepted science, I like to quote the physicist Wolfgang Pauli: "Not only is this not right, it's not even wrong". In the case of Paul's statement about inductance, though, it's merely wrong.
Good night Paul!
I have a Bi-Wire set of "Anti-Cable" speaker wires, running from a Rega Elex-r to a pair of Legacy Studio Monitor speakers. The "Anti-Cables" are solid copper wire, not woven strands and flexible, but bendable like mag-wire/armature wire. The bi-wire set (4 wires) float in the air since they are so stiff, almost completely independently of each other and only meet up and touch each other when they insert into the Rega amp. Am I getting the benefits Paul mentions like 'separating lamp cord' into each strand; less inductance/interference from one wire to the other? I've used other speaker wire (Silver Sonic bi-wire, Western Electric tinned copper, Cardas), and of all that I have tried, the "Anti-Cables" sounded best. Wonder if the separated conductors is one of the aspects that helps with that?
A a good 12-gauge Oxygen-free stranded speaker wire is more than adequate and can be had for about $0.27 per foot!
Years ago on TH-cam someone tested aluminum foil rolled up just for the hell of it ..😀😀😀 It worked..😀👍🤗
I find good results with the Nitrogen-free but the most banging are the Hydrogen infused.
@@beans4gas
😀😀😀😀👍🤗 Bluetooth 😀👍
Nikola Tesla was working on wireless electricity..👍
Henry Ford and Thomas Edison put an end to that idea 💡 Nikola Tesla died a poor man and shamed for being a wacko because he envisioned bringing electricity to everyone for free.
Before monster cable Bob Fulton had his brown and gold cables. Had he been more of a businessman he could have made something of it. He also had some excellent interconnects.
L
So If I have a single line of cable for each positive and negative[GND] on the cable to the speaker, which I do today I am better of twisting them together (which i do for interconnects) They currently are just generally following the same path from amplifier to speaker.
I use monster XP platinum OFC cable on my towers, and they sound pretty damn good.
My speakers sound bright so I use 600 ft of speaker cable, helps roll off the top frequency's lol. I think we have a lot of people whom put way too much emphasis (and $$) on wires and cables. Just get adequate copper, connectors, length, and gauge and spend the rest of that money somewhere else in your system or records/CD's. Maybe it's cause I don't have a $50k plus system but I don't think cables should be making or breaking the sound of ones stereo set up.
i bet 100 dollars you cant hear the difference in a blind test...
Even better for mid-range and high frequency news 1.5 mm solid core cheap to buy
Given the extremely low source impedance of your average S.S. amp, load impedance of the average 8 ohm speaker and crossover network, average cable length and at audio frequencies, does the math indicate there will be any roll-off in the audible range? By how many dB at what frequency? I.E. what is the cable's inductance, how much does it change and does it have any impact at audible frequencies?
Did I get this right: From your amp, 10K speaker wire connects to the speaker terminal and then Monster Cables connect the speaker to the terminal. Is that correct?
so twisted wired is better ? like the Karma Series from Knuconceptz
Watching you lean against that Tower of a subwoofers makes me nervous!
I believe putting wires closer reduces cable inductance.
After having issues with a set of Star Quad speaker cables I shotgunned (one pair for + one pair for -) some Monster Cables terminated with locking bananas on both sides. Measurable increase in dynamic range. Amp ran cooler.
I typically just then randomly on the carpet to stop any parallel lengths. But I like the braiding idea and will have to do that. Thanks!
Been watching a lot of physics videos discussing energy and information transmission across wires. There was a big blowup in the TH-cam physics world a few months back about how long it actually takes for current to flow thru wire especially extreme lengths of wire. I think this one started it off. youtube. com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY&t=24s.
How did you measure this "measurable" increase in dynamic range? And let me guess: you're NOT an electrical engineer, and neither are any of your friends
@@d0sk3y I used an SPL meter. Does this confuse you?
You just can't get anything right can you? I have a degree in Electronics, an FCC Broadcast license, repair and design my own test and audio equipment, built speakers, I have literally designed and sold TV stations, satellite trucks, ... I lived in Nashville working as a Rep for the top audio products, as a member of AES I sold to recording studios there. Introduced AT mics to the Opry stage, .. travelled giving seminars and clinics on amps, speakers, ... ran a regional major brand warrantee repair station in Atlanta. Oh ya, I came in 2nd place for National Service Manager Studer/ Revox while in Nashville. They did not like my handwriting examples I had to submit. I moved to Video and then computers where I gave lectures on test and measurement of HDTV and disc based editing for HDTV to SMPTE conferences. Just retired after selling leading edge IT around the world.
Oh and I am surrounded by audio/ electronics people. Not just friends, but my two oldest sons have impressive old school audio systems. They each won 1st place in a state wide HS electronics contest sponsored by one of the Top Ten Engineering Colleges in the US, MSOE, in their respective years. One also won 1st place in computer programming in a contest there as well. While in HS he had a laminated hall pass and would be sent to other schools in the district to do their IT. One worked on the bench repairing audio and video. We can all troubleshoot to component levels.
Other questions?
If monster cable is good enough for the IRS 5 it should be good enough for any speaker.
Ridiculous
If you wanted to space the positive and negative cables apart to reduce inductance, how much distance is needed between the cables? I sense a 3D printing project coming on.
@@Douglas_Blake Or, in layman's terms, about 3 billion meters. FACT!
12 AWG "lamp cord"???
It’s a BIG lamp 😊
I caught that also. Most lamp cord is 18 AWG - which by the way is what I still use. I understand that 16, 14, 12 AWG zip cord is used for high current drawing applications.
That was my first thought... back in my day, the cheap cord widely used for speakers was probably only about 20 AWG.
@@osliverpool Yes. I got into audio and video just before 1980. I do remember the clear 'speaker wire' that was available nearly everywhere being about that AWG size.
I have used 50 feet of 18 gauge speaker wire on each channel without pulling it apart
and had no reason to complain about the results.
I'm kinda shocked, I understand the look of a speaker has little to do with the sound it produces, but I thought the back side of your speakers would have a more finished look. Is there a screen that covers it?
Interestingly Naim NACA5 speaker cable is deliberately designed to have high inductance- Naim amps of old needed that in order to remain stable
Those IRS-5s appear to NOT be connected! Why?
Now museum pieces
I am happy that my ear is not as good as most of yours. I have tried in my own systems and in others and I never find any improvement. A different thing is in the case you have to throw long cords
Boy have times changed!
The copper wire in my thirty year old Monster Cables has corroded and turned brown. Should I still use them or throw them out?
Clean it good it will be ok no need for new cable plus you have good copper wire which is a good thing.
Generally you can just snip the ends off and get to a section that is not corroded.
if you have noticed a difference in the audio between thirty years:
with a new set of Monster Cable the miscoscopic difference in audio or osciloscope will be shown, but the ears after 25 years will hear a different thing.
ok....going way back to using ROMEX for the "low" end and the thinner "ZIP CORD" for "high" end.....presumed to be tied in parallel runs to the 2 poles.....WOULD YOU NOW...say separate the conductors in that scenario ? SO parallel wire tied to parallel wire to be clear on parallel runs...so 4 conductors all together.....Hmm but what about 2 positive conductors as one thick and one thin....and a common ground conductor as the "return" ?? What are your thoughts on the 3 conductor and 4 conductor aspect ? What is implied, is that the HIGH AND LOW are a 2 way system ...what if you add in the 3rd with a mid-range driver and the complexed crossover....in a single amplifier setup...but hmm what about a Bi-Amp or a Tri-Amp ? ALL a MEANS TO AN END...and how you get there....
This explanation is totally incorrect. Paul confuses inductance with capacitance. Conductors run close together have a high capacitance and low inductance. Separating the conductors reduces capacitance but increases inductance. Unless the cable run is extremely long these effects will be way below audibility . The important parameter is cable resistance. Juft choose a sensible gauge wire to minimise any effects. No need for expensive cables.
Finally a sensible comment in this thread
@@geddylee501 thank you
Mind you, when I put in some numbers, the series inductance does creep up a bit for longer runs of something with sensible dimensions...but yes, don't separate the pair expecting to reduce inductance!
A friend of mine used to not only split them apart but also parallel wire each run with dissimilar wires. He said it cancelled out the deficiencies of each wire. I don't know.
Lose him as a friend.
@@d0sk3y I did. He left the country when Trump won.🤣
For me only Nordost cables.There are perfect.
Hmm....not sold on problems of "zip cord" also known as speaker wire simply because were are dealing with frequencies not frequencies which is a whole different world when discussing cables. Speaker wires can be twisted, known as "twisted pair" and done in heavy gauge wire which btw can be done DIY to reject external electrical interference, seems like a good thing right? Well not buying that when considering levels driving speakers simply because whatever tiny amount of interference there might be is absolutely buried (think S/N (signal to noise ratio)) under signal levels of speaker outputs. There is a very simple way to cut through all the marketing involved in cables. Free tip: Connect an Oscilloscope to the amps output, observe signal, noise, freq. response and whatever your concerned about. Now do the same at the speaker terminals (to observe the differences) Now throw in those super oxygen free 8 gauge etc. etc. etc. expensive cables and compare. Note Oscopes can display values far beyond anyone's golden ears unless you can hear radio frequencies. Speaker wire is about last on my list of where to spend $ on hi-fi. Start with 70~80 percent in your speakers. If you can't float that then start with a good set of headphones and save until you can afford a set of speakers to do your system and room justice. Another tip based on facts: Learn basic Ohm's law (easy). Now look up the ohmic values of even 18 gauge wire, notice the values are listed per Of course there is the dreaded blind A/B testing (dreaded by those trying to justify $ spent on super duper audio cables) I'm not an Audio Engineer but a retired Electronics Technician and previous mixing tech for a large venue who has always had a fascination with home HiFi and a passion for great music. Sorry but I would trust the average HiFi salesperson about as much as I would a car salesman. When people don't know a subject they can be told almost anything and many will believe it. Sorry this got too long, HiFi misinformation is just one of my pet peeves. Next someone will tell me their music sounds better on a full moon especially when cables are levitated.
Doesn't braided wire cause high C, low L and parallell separated wires low C, High L?
This is correct, Paul got it mixed up. Separated wires increase the inductance (L) reducing capacitance (C) and close-up wires vice versa. Reducing L for speaker wires is more important than reducing C as the impedance of C will be parallel to the speaker just loading the amp, but the L impedance will be in series with the speaker reducing its efficiency for the highs.
Inductance is caused by changing magnetic field strength. Coiling wires increases inductance by concentrating the magnetic field. Capacitance is caused by separating two metal objects, the closer (less separated) and larger the shared mutual size, the bigger effect. It is also affected by what material separated them, e.g. air does not work as well as wax paper.
Inductance is connected to the magnetic field which expands and collapses around the wire while capacitance is connected to the two energy fields that radiate perpendicular to the wires at 90° to each other. (Very simplified)
When two wires are run in parallel you then also get the Transmission Line effect. This is represented (schematically and mathematically) by a continual series (and parallel) of capacitance, inductance and resistance.
So yes two wires run in parallel with close proximity would have higher L. However when two wires are braided their point of contact is no longer linear and parallel. It is close to 90° at each intersection. Those the magnetic lines of force is reduced between them. Lowering the L.
But C is how much total surface area, how far apart and separated by what. Two wires touching and run in parallel would have a greater common surface area closer together than a braid.
IRS V's ... R. I. P. 😞
lol this is audiofoolery at its worst
Please, continue using your wire coat hangers.
@@Mark-lq3sb ahahahaha...pssst..."snakeoil"
This explanation is totally incorrect. Paul confuses inductance with capacitance. Conductors run close together have a high capacitance and low inductance. Separating the conductors reduces capacitance but increases inductance. Unless the cable run is extremely long these effects will be way below audibility . The important parameter is cable resistance. Juft choose a sensible gauge wire to minimise any effects. No need for expensive cables.
Changing cables is like baking the same cake but in different ovens expecting them to taste differently
@@sparkplug5392 ahahahaha...pssst..."that's what you think."
Sometimes like this one, I'll write my comment and delete it before I post. But I'll leave you with this. Which came first the Chicken or the Egg? 🖖
What is the big deal about moving the camera to where you want to show something close-up other than your 'live' stand up portion .. it's like a live stream .. very natural not a processed jump cut segments that are REALLY annoying in most videos here on TH-cam !!
Qed silver is as much as id bother to go
hook em up.....or sell em
I have never heard the difference between speaker cables once you get them thick enough to get their resistance down to a non influential level.
Skin effect, inter-core capacitance and inductance play no audible effect at audio frequencies. It's not practical but welding cable makes a big difference compared to lighting flex. Although more practical but not elegant, I use 6mm solid copper house wiring cable. The problem with down to earth practical solutions is that they don't have a brand name for audiophiles to brag about and argue the toss over.
oooh no.. cable snake oil again...
oy vey
Cardas😘
Chinese copper sucks. It’s brittle strands break easily. It’s not 100%
copper. It’s blended with other cheap metals in the process.
Chinese food and Chinese music..👍
Throw in a few Chinese girls and you have one hell of a party..😎🤗
Gosh, I wonder why we think Americans are xenophobic.
Is any cable 100% copper?
@@richardt3371
You really don't want to know what most "Americans" think of the rest of the world.
@@d.s.w7779
Only if all of the products you use were made in 1948.
Thats just fun