I agree... However Jon knew he couldn't be a good husband and father of 8 children in the long run. He wasn't honest to himself to not get himself in the situation in the first place.
@@psalms1196 Yes I Agree with you the pressures of 8 kids is a lot but Kate was like this with other people as well numerous Nannies and babysitters quit because they said she was impossible to work for. Her DWTS dance partner that poor man nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to work with her she was rude and condescending with him and I think he was glad when they got voted off the show.
I feel like they both treated each other like shit honestly. He was very condescending and disconnected. She was overbearing and neurotic. The fact is that they never really stood a chance having that many kids the same age all at once. That would be enough to break anyone. At least Kate was hands on and got shit done. I don't think they're bad people though. Just not meant to be together.
@Beautyonabarnbudget Honesty, I've divorced and have two children. One likes me ( daughter ) and my other ( son) dosen't want to have anything to do with me. It's all about how you raise them. Maybe the kids 🤔 🤷 saw the truth and don't talk with their mother
The most upsetting part of the whole thing to me is that Jon was undeniably emotionally and mentally abused, and the public was so okay with contributing to the punching down during/after the divorce even though they had seen so much of that play out on television, knowing it had to be worse off-camera. When people tell you who they are, believe them the first time, because an abusive person will ALWAYS try to make their victim's reality look distorted to try to further their own narrative and control it.
That is why those interviews where she is almost tearful, freak me out because I am almost fooled by it!!! It's diabolical!!! Kate is to blame for the horrible treatment of her family!! I will say John should have thought about having that many children in his 20s!! Kate definitely saw a good victim in John, she knew who she could push around and he let her do it!!! Sad all the way around!!!
Yes, and ironically her most recent statement about her son Collin was “his distorted perception of reality”…. What a typical response. That’s exactly what the abuser wants people to believe about the victim.
@@leigha000 I saw that too and it made me think back to this comment - I really wish I hadn’t been so spot on, if only because of what the implication is and what that means for Collin. I wish him all the best.
Please remember they married June 12,1999. Twins born early in May 2000? I’m missing the whole infertility thing. Pcos can cause infertility = AT LEAST 12 MONTHS AND NO PREGNANCY BUT IT’S 24 months if under 25-26. Do math 🧮 and please explain it
Oh wow thank you so much!! I agree, I’m not saying Jon is perfect; far from it. But he really was dragged by the media and public for years while Kate continued to perpetuate the “woe is me narrative” when she knew the truth. Instead of speaking the truth she threw him under the bus and tried to save herself.
There was an episode toward the beginning where Kate says “If one of us wants to stop (doing the show), we stop.” Jon wanted to stop. She didn’t. She lied.
LIED BIG TIME!!!!!💯💯 She wanted fame she wanted fortune, she wanted to be the Queen of television and she did INDEED say that if any of them wanted out then it'd be over, yeah right Kate!!!
@@spud6195 honestly Jon did a lot more than the average dad: took care of the kids while his wife was away, arrives home ASAP and immediately starts helping around the house, plays with the kids and genuinely seems to care for them especially considering that he had 8 kids in his late 20s.
Seriously, Kate was more concerned with keeping things clean. Let the kids have their fun, join in and spend time with him, then get to the cleaning later.
She can be frustrated but not talking to him like a child. ^ I agree, the second I watched that part I was like hmmm a divorce really didn’t surprise me
@jamiebom1023 If you want something done right, do it yourself. If that level of frustration comes from that small an issue when they are millionaires, she is the problem.
The way she flipped out over gum on a sock is such a good representation of the type of person she is. Can you imagine growing up with a mother who constantly screams, even over the most trivial things. That has to be extremely stressful and exhausting for those poor kids.
Idk, maybe she had like.. 2 hrs of sleep every night for weeks? I might flip out over a sock too then! I have five kids and I haven’t had more than 4-6 hrs of sleep in like 12 yrs! I feel for her. Everyone wants to judge her, yet literally no one can begin to stand in her shoes.
Yeah but I imagine myself with 8 kids and absolutely understand why she would flip out. Nobody walked in her shoes and we should all shut out mouth. Instead you have 8 kids under 10.
@@meebeam1805u are so right. People think they know how they would react in the same situation. We all have been thinking about a way to fake our own death and move to Bahamas and most of us have less then 2 kids!!! That's what I would have done... Probably. You also have to imagine a crew with a camera on ur face 24/7. And we are critical of her decisions about the show. Would you have turned down a multi million dollar offer knowing that u have 12 kids to send to university??? She didn't have the luxury to tell no. Her kids are what they are because of that show and I am pretty sure they would have been poor otherwise.
I still vividly remember my mom telling me, on the day they aired renewing their vows, that they would be divorcing soon. In my adolescent brain I thought she was crazy, but looking back I think I was the crazy one. And I never even liked Kate, I got the same feeling I got from some of my friends parents, where I can look back now and see there was clear abuse, but at the time I couldn't identify it.
When you have that many kids you kind of HAVE to be a little relaxed when it comes to mess and organization. It’s stressful watching Kate try to micromanage every little thing!
@@tashibalampkin8555 If she didn’t want that she she shouldn’t have forced Jon to have more kids. Or better yet she shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place
I kinda feel for her a little bit with there a some negative stereotypes with large families, and with the world watching everyone has something to say. Wish she got therapy to be a better person about it
the seasons argument had my blood boiling. she was clearly deflecting and not acknowledging the fact that she fat shamed her husband while a camera crew was filming. Now had the roles been reversed ....
@@mangos08 Facts. I only hope others can learn from seeing this. Don't believe them when they repeatedly claim they're trying to change. Get out as soon as you see it; the longer you stay, the longer you need therapy after leaving.
It's a great example of why people in a relationship with someone like this become so passive. They will talk in circles until you just become so exhausted and confused, you just give up.
She was IMPOSSIBLE! I have no idea how Jon lasted as long as he did in the marriage. I thought he was a gross old creeper! I still think the girls he dated were kinda young, it was a bit weird, but I misjudged him. I'm glad the truth is coming to light, because I can't imagine the amount of suffering and bullying and gaslighting he endured. It must have been MISERABLE. She's so toxic. She's showing her true colors now. She's still messing with him. Using her children to make his life as hard as possible. She's horrible I feel so bad for Jon. Kate is so vengeful. I just feel bad for judging him even though it was so long ago.
@@MeganVictoriaKearnsI think the reason he dated younger women was because they were in their early 20s when they got married and had kids pretty much right away. I think he was emotionally stunted, checked out for all those years because she was constantly berating him. So mentally, he was still in his early 20s
Concerning the son who Jon hadn’t seen in a year and a half. Kate had him admitted to a mental health hospital because she didn’t want to deal with him. She even wrote in her diary that she didn’t like him. She never told Jon where he was, but the boy snuck a note out to his dad to come and get him, rescue him. The bot now lives with Jon and he’s a straight A student and doing very well. The woman is a monster.
My heart breaks for Colin! She had no empathy or patience with him. How was she allowed to drop him off like that? WTF kind of place was that, needs an investigation run on it.
Also had something to do with TLC contract. Children should be available to be filmed and she said “mental disability “ so she wouldn’t be sued by TLC. Not sure if she used that exact term but it was in the area.
There's a guy who was in the same facility for a few weeks. Says he couldn't imagine how devastated a 12 yr old who had no visitors would deal with it. And he regrets not contacting jon to tell him but he himself was 16 with some issues of course
Going around in circles is a sign of a lie. She is flailing around making excuses about the babysitter. She's passive aggressively accused him of choosing a dangerous baby sitter and she's coming to save them because she's a parent and he's not. Giving up the micromanaging of the kids, god forbid they might be playing and getting dirty, oh no.
Who would want it helps somebody that always tells you you're doing it wrong and insist that you get out of the way, you're just making more work. That's pretty much what she would do
Also, she did have help: volunteers at her place, a whole living room renovation, gifts from the community such as prams, etc. She has been so blessed through all the experience and given that, her initial plan was to raise these 8 children by herself while her husband worked, I think it's safe to say, it really turned out for the best.
Not to mention she had an army of people volunteering help at irst and then John always helping and even hired staff and neighbors and friends. She had a lot of help.
I watched this show as a child and didn't think much of Kate's outbursts. It just seemed she was frustrated and exasperated, so maybe her chastisement was understandable.... but watching back as an adult, omg, this wasn't just her being bitchy, she was downright abusive and awful. I could never think of talking to my partner like that, no matter how I was feeling. She takes every instance to belittle him, and from their early family videos BEFORE kids...this was just how she was, not how she was because she was exasperated with small children.
I agree, I remember watching this show as a kid and "siding" with Kate (I was.. all of maybe 11, lol). Looking back now, wow, this isn't how adults behave. And maybe that's the difference, she gets overwhelmed and feels frustrated and expresses those emotions a lot like a child would, so I related to it. Now that I've matured past 11 it doesn't seem like Kate ever did. She complains about Jon shutting down, but she constantly belittles him in front of his children. Of course he went numb. She was the one who lacked communication skills and maturity, but she did great at putting on a face and gaslighting people into believing that was just the way it had to be done, mostly with snide comments and yelling. The way she screamed at her baby just for stepping in gum broke my heart.
I think the boy she sent away maybe reminded her of John, but stuck up for himself and she wouldn't stand for that. I didnt watch it too much, busy with my own little brood. But I never liked the way she talked down to him. It was always a constant attack on his character. It doesnt surprise me he looked elsewhere for some kindness. It's like a dog being called over and getting punched in the face, over and over again.
She knew that when she decided to quickly marry him. Notice she's been filming herself since long before the reality TV show. Kate was always a narcissist, and Jon became her victim. Later, the kids were used for her benefit. Honestly, I think she had the six kids for the attention.
Most narcissistic people are not diagnosed as such because to do so the individual would have to admit they have a problem. Narcissistic will never truly admit they're wrong or imperfect. Just because the term wasn't public knowledge doesn't mean it didn't exist before. The term has been overly saturated especially in the media in recent years to invalidated it's existence. But it's still a reality that 40%+ of the population has.
John wasn't another child. She treated him like a child. She was both verbally and physically abusive. I got sick of watching her slap him "playfully." She was the most narcissistic person I'd ever seen before I even knew there was a word for narcissism.
💯💯 I was a teen watching this show sporadically and I erroneously that her behavior was “normal” Now as an adult? I physically cringe and I’m angered and SO PUT OFF by her behavior towards Jon, towards the kids and towards the camera crew (and how she would triangulate them during her yelling at Jon and telling them, “Can you BUH-LIEVE what I have to put up with?!?”) 🙄😒
I guarantee that Jon did try to help out a lot with the kids. She probably micromanaged and berated everything he would do. That's why he became "unhelpful" and withdrawn from everything. She's the worst!
@@PorcelainRequiem she said on the show it was him that bathed them all every night after work and did his fair share of chores. She also had friends that helped her with laundry and looking after the children. She had plenty of help until she pushed them away.
Imagine not being able to defend yourself for a *DECADE* .... While Kate/TLC got to say whatever they wanted about you. That'd be incredibly frustrating. After watching part 1, I read Kate's book (Multiple Blessings) and this book that exposed Kate... just wow. As for the children that haven't talked to Jon in awhile, remember that parental alienation is a very real thing. Who knows what Kate has put in their heads...
@@LaraCroftEyes1 I've now been watching the show from the beginning (never watched while on the air). Omg... seeing that.... I felt awful for Jon. She loved humiliating and degrading him every chance she got.
When Kate says, “my husbands absent, as usual” is so bull!! Anytime John tries to help she belittles him, tells him he can’t do it right, then make him leave bc she’s too frustrated! Like girl what?? And then she goes to say, “a husband who loves his wife would’ve stepped forward” like bro HE DOES then you get all pissy! She’s fucking exhausting man! She’s just like my birth mom! You can’t do anything right bc it’s not “her way” I’m glad John is out of that relationship bc it really took a toll on him
and how about the "i never said i never have help." then jon says, "yes, you just said it." so kate says, "yes, i say it bc you don't do this and this..." (paraphrasing)
no, even if you do it her way, she'll still find something to criticize. she tries to make herself "look better" by trying to make others "look bad." she wants people to think she's sooo hardworking and organized to be so "passionate"
Kate: "I've never done that since and I don't care what he says. We've never been in a store where I yelled across the store. Hello?" Jon: "Yes, you have." Kate: "When?" Jon: "Crayola Factory." *cuts to actual family outing at the Crayola Factory* Kate: "Jon, JOOONNN!!!!!" 😭😂
@@jeannettedodge5886 Producers like "well we can literally check the taped footage, so why not?" KATE YOU ARE BEING FOLLOWED BY CAMERAS AT ALL TIMES. HOW ARE YOU STILL TRYING TO GASLIGHT HIM?
@@GotLostProductions you asking me how I'm gaslighting Jon? I watched their show from the beginning. That woman was awful to Jon. I also seen her yelling at him in the store. So I'm not sure what you mean in your comment because I was agreeing with the other comments???
So interesting listening to this because 1) I never saw John as inept or childish. I always saw him as the one who valued quality time and enjoyment of the kids while Kate was a perfectionist who prioritized outward appearances over connecting and guiding the kids in a loving way. 2) I HATED watching Kate abuse John with constant insults and criticisms and complaints. I wished the show would focus on the kids and stop showing them fighting all the time. 3) I didn't admire her as a mother or wife. I wished her well and hoped she would get counseling so she could be a happier person and better mom.
@@SpicyPlur he worked when the children were born, then got home and took care of them. Which in sure was very stressful, if they were making all that money with tlc it makes sense he decided to stay at home to be a full time dad with Kate.
@@Marinlss that was only for the beginning. That was not going on when he was a gag stripper, dj, dating 20yr Olds with no custody of his kids. Acting like people don't get married and start a family in their 20s. He was a good parent till he decided to stop.
KATE WAS SO OCD. SHE CLEANED THAT STOVE EVERY NIGHT AND WASHED THE FLOOR 3 TIMES A DAY. LOL TRYING TO MAKE THINGS PERFECT WAS HER WAY OF CONTROLLING HER ANGER AND HER LIFE AND THE CHAOS.
Years ago watching this at 19 yrs old I thought this was normal bc my mother was worse than Kate. 20 yrs and tons of therapy have shown me this whole situation was so abusive.
Watching this was hard honestly. Seeing Kate being so blatantly abusive yet still being praised by the media back then is crazy. 2000s-early 2010s culture normalized so many things that I just can’t believe we ever let slide…
Right it is so interesting revisiting the past and seeing how horrible this situation was handled back then. I would hope that this have improved now and that we don’t/aren’t normalizing these situations. Thank you so much for watching
she emasculated him, demeaned him, humiliated him. i will never understand when people get shocked their s/o asks for a divorce after being so impossible to live around. i remember when it all went down i was a tween-young teen & the media definitely took kates side & trashed john over time i wised up and realized kate was the issue all along
Friendly FYI: This video was recorded prior to one of the Gosselin children doing an interview explaining their strained relationship with their siblings and Kate. Because this video was completed prior to that, that interview is not included in this video. Also, the focus for this video is the adults in the situation; Jon and Kate, not the children who are innocent parties. Lastly, I got really sick towards the end of making this so you might notice a change in my voice at certain points; my apologies in advance. Thank you for watching! Have a great day!!
everything about this whole "family drama" is blatant display of sexism. why was kate allowed to do all this and claim she's a mother like it allows her to be awful. he had every right to be a father and keep in contact with his kids. she worked her ass off to ruin his reputation 💀
I thought the same thing that this was a heavy display of sexism. The way the media pushed certain narratives, to how Kate treated Jon on camera, if the roles were reversed what would we all have thought? I’m not saying Jon is perfect, far from it as none of us are perfect, but in my opinion the way he was humiliated on the show and dragged in the media was not right. Just my humble opinion
@@migoreng7789 right?! I think it made sense for Kate’s team because she was the one that would continue on with the show. See, they needed to make Kate appear more likeable to keep the ratings high. But the show just didn’t work without Jon. To keep ratings, I feel like the network needed that friction.
Kate was absolutely horrible to her husband, I can’t imagine the stress that 6 toddlers would bring to a couple, but my god how could anyone stand to ever be around that woman. I get anxiety every time she speaks to Jon
I love how Whoopi saw right through Kates bs. Kates a good speaker, so she knows how to come across as caring when she is being manipulative and condescending. Her choice of words makes you question whether she is real or gaslighting.
This is the definitive Jon and Kate documentary. So very well edited and thorough. I never watched Jon & Kate on a regular basis, but have vaguely followed the rise and fall of them via the headlines in grocery store tabloids and clickbait articles. I feel like I finally see the whole picture.
@@betheecommentator You have one of the best channels on TH-cam. I appreciate the hard work you put into making them! I hope TH-cam makes sure you’re compensated.
Did you see the episode? They went to Disney World and had ice cream and she started taking the ice cream away from the children because it was melting on them so all of the kids were crying because they got their treat ripped away from them.
It's crazy to see just how much the world has changed since 2009. If this happened today I think a lot more people would realize how abusive Kate is and take Jon's side. As a teenager I thought Kate was so rude and insufferable but it's crazy to watch it back as an adult and see the blatant abuse!
rewatching this as an adult i see why my parents used to say “Kate is HORRIBLE” and i was like nooo she’s not. but she’s got to be the most toxic person alive
I remember being a kid and being SHOCKED at their divorce and thinking they were the last couple I thought would separate. Looking back… it’s kind of sad that I thought this was a healthy relationship
Damn I feel for Jon so much! I grew up with a narcissistic parent and know how truly abusive they are to live with, especially when they want absolute control. I still remember watching one of their 4th of July episodes when I was 9 and feeling so uncomfortable and icky after watching it bc of how cruel Kate was.
After this I'm seriously feeling #justiceforjon vibes! It's interesting how it's come out recently she took money from Collin and Hannah's trusts. I'm fascinated by the fact that "She needed to survive" from the funds of the kids she's not raising.
What Jon wanted to say is “We had two toddlers and YOU insisted we have more kids before we had figured out or relationship and parenting styles BEFORE we added more children” Kate seems like the bad guy and she’s just controlling in a way that makes her inflexible and condescending. Really its just not trusting that the world keeps spinning even if all 8 kids lose their shoes and the floor isn’t clean. We would have that same dynamic in our marriage if I didn’t learn to stop trying to “raise” my husband and let him be a man. He on his part now trusts me and allows me to run the things that I do well like bill pay and saving/investing without complaint.
agreed. it’s hard to watch her talk down to him like he’s a child. i hate how the media tried to portray kate’s treatment towards him as “she has to raise a ninth child” when in reality she chose to treat him like a child. i’m sure he had his issues but it was so clear that his best was never going to be good enough for her. i’ve been in relationships like that and it’s horrible. i also can’t imagine how people would’ve reacted to their argument over kate calling him fat for “three seasons” if the roles were reversed. her inability to take responsibility and hear him out is really sad. it’s almost scary how good she was at manipulating him.
@@crab2195 I can tell you from experience, there's no almost- it's absolutely terrifying and, after nearly a decade, I still struggle to trust my own judgment after believing what I did when I was with my ex. It really messes a person up.
@@sourgreendolly7685 yeah i agree. as i’ve said before i’ve been in a relationship like that and it destroys your confidence and self-worth. i wasn’t even married to my narcissistic ex and it was still torture.
She always seemed to expected a level of kindness and respect from him that she never gave. And the fact that she had fans... could you imagine if it was him constantly belittling, condescending, and verbally abusing her on national tv. He would have been even more hated than he was.
The level of abuse is simply astounding, and people just watched it with joy. It's simply heartbreaking. I would freeze during abusive episodes in past relationships just like him freeze and appease, not speaking because I didn’t have a voice anyway. One word can trigger a borage of screaming and shoving. I feel for John and those children so damn much.
I’m an identical quad, and while any children put a strain on martial relationships, my parents have never spoken to each other like Kate does with Jon. I read another comment that said something about watching as a kid and not thinking much of Kates fits. But as an adult, that also grew up in a similar mother-of-multiples setting, looking back at this it’s clear how horrid Kate treated Jon. Of course he seems indecisive, unsure of himself, and not eager to jump in to help. Bc every attempt made was probably rejected in a way bc it wasn’t “the right way” or “helpful enough”. It’s almost unbearable to sit through and watch.
I remember your TLC specials :) So glad your upbringing was so different from the Gosselin children's, and I hope you and your family are thriving today :)
Kate just grates my my last nerve's last little nerve! It's like she just CAN'T be happy and live in the moment. I don't think she actually enjoyed her kids until they started school and she wasn't with them 24/7. Jon may not have wanted that 2nd pregnancy, but he definitely loved being with his children. He enjoyed being in the moment. He played with them. I can't remember seeing her ever truly just playing with them. Not teaching them how to cook, or on a trip to an amusement park. Just outside, participating in the activities and not watching. That made me feel for the kiddos so much. I remember asking my mom to leave me alone, she was always playing with me so much lol. But these kids didn't have that. Those memories of mud pies, tea parties and playground shenanigans with my mom are still my favorite memories as a child with my mom and I'm 42 years old. So I can't imagine how they're feeling at 18 and 22, but never having those memories with their mom. I'm about halfway through (I watch everything at 2x speed) and you've done a great job once again, BE! I was waiting for this one. And you've knocked it out the park yet again. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾♥️♥️♥️😁😁😁
Omg it was rough going through these clips and putting them together for the video, I was getting headaches lol. Her energy is…a lot 🤣 You also bring up a good point re: Kate not playing much with the kids. She always seemed very uptight Also, thanks so much for your support!!! I’m always so appreciative ❤️❤️
@@betheecommentator you've turned into a favorite creator of mine because you do excellent work and I will always support your channel for that reason. I'm rooting for you!
Well that makes me feel better about my toddler telling me she needed “some alone time” the other day. Lol! In all seriousness though, I’m so glad you have those memories with your mom. It’s a good reminder for us all to live in the moment with our kids because each phase goes by so quickly.
@@spa-peggymeatballs4861 thinking of a toddler asking for “alone time” is so stinkin cute lol. I’m glad your kiddo knows how to identify what they need & communicate it! Shows good parenting on your part for sure :) P.S. Ho-yeah! I love your username!
@@sagisunshine9376 lol! It was cute. It was said in a very matter of fact way. And I read that HO-YEAH in the exact voice it was intended to be read in 😂. Thank you for the kind words ❤️
realizing now that i think i liked this show so much as a kid because the way jon and kate talked to each other reminded me of my parents. my trauma makes a little bit more sense now.
“She purposely tried to cut me off from my Mom & Brothers…she HATED when I would spend time with them-she would guilt me by saying ‘why do u have to spend time with your Mother, why don’t you spend time with your children instead?’” As if he didn’t LIVE 24/7 with his kids…as soon as I heard that, I was like “Ok, she’s THAT kinda person.” If you ever find yourself dating that kinda person, hopefully it’s BEFORE you marry them & have kids with them, but if you do…GET OUT. Oh that’s the worst kind of person. And I’m not surprised that she took an opportunity to blindside him when things were peaceful & calm-they all will drop you immediately once you cease being useful to them…
Over the years I've yet to hear one person side wth Kate. How she treated Jon is etched in everyone's memory. What she did to her son Colin by dumping him in a mental hospital then abandoning him there is unforgivable!
It sounds like she put him in some type of residential and educational facility for adolescents. This is a difficult decision to make for a child. In her case, the fact that (according to Collin) she didn't visit often and now he doesn't have a relationship with his other siblings that still live with her is beyond sad. Those type of facilities DEFINITELY have visitation, albeit structured to deal with the kids' needs and the protocols of what they are trying to teach them. Still so sad that she didn't come regularly and have his other siblings come regularly. So out of sight, out of mind. He didn't (and probably couldn't) "snap to it" like the other kids probably did at least marginally, so she put him there, didn't bother to maintain a working relationship with him, and he was there for YEARS during his formative years. I'm sure he felt abandoned, yet honestly, this probably helped him being away from her. Sad she didn't even come to court to reassure him that it's okay that you're going to live with your dad. I'd like to have lunch or go to a movie with you, etc. You don't need to hire a lawyer to do that if you're just going to let it happen. But she couldn't just agree and show up. She did abandon her own kid, first to the institution by not visiting / participating and having his sibs do so during those difficult years for Collin, then by not communicating with Jon about where Collin was, and finally by not showing up to court to let Collin know it's okay if he wants to live with his dad . All around sad for the kids because of her personality disorder. She's going to get a rude awakening the older they get. Sorry so long!
In the beginning everyone was on Kate’s side. Jon was a slacker and a cheater and Kate made sure to stoke the fire of those depictions of him. Jon kept quiet for years just keeping his head down and doing what he needed to do. The truth is finally coming out.
She didn't want a husband. She wanted a houseboy. She claims she's "too honest" but truly, she has no self-control and no filter. She spends all her time trying to control others, and zero time trying to practice any type of self-control.
the sly smirk that kate has while saying that jon doesn’t know where collin in. she had no intention to ever tell him and seems to be holding it over his head, yet even though she knew where he was she NEVER even visited her child while he was away! she’s disgusting and evil! the kids should sue TLC if need be
As a mom of 5 kids there were so many times I wanted to yell at this woman that your kids and your husband are far more important than having a spotless house and having control over anything. I get it that when you have a large family chaos and mess can happen out of no where but thats life, and I would rather my kids and husband love me at the end of the day then go to bed with a clean home.
I just discovered this channel and I cannot BELIEVE I am so late to it. This is so high quality, so nuanced, so empathetic to the people involved. Kind of glad I am late tothe party as now I have so much to watch. Wishing you allthe success with this content it is so so good. Such a breath of fresh air to find popular culture commentary that is so thoughtful.
Welcome to my channel! Better late than never! I’m so glad you enjoy my content and I really appreciate the positive feedback!! Stay tuned for more videos soon!!
When he said that his family said , "We got the old Jon back." That rang so true for me. When my controlling husband and I divorced, after 13 years together, I didn't notice the change, but family and friends said the same thing to me. One of the most controlling things my husband ever complained to me was how I held a broom. Not that the house wasn't getting swept well, but I wasn't holding the broom correctly.
She was/is very toxic, she broke him down and tried to change him for years and then had the audacity to say HE had changed, and she didn't know who he was. She spent no time getting to know him, only time spent 'training him. Poor guy, poor kids.
Also when she said "the old Jon" I was thinking oh she means the old Jon who put up with her abuse and wouldn't stand up to her. Of course she doesn't like the new Jon who will fight back and stick up for himself and the kids.
My heart always broke for those kids. I grew up with an abusive controlling mother and I knew very early on these kids were going to be in for it. I knew her husband would get fed up at some point and I knew she would physically abused her kids. What I did not expect was for her to institutionalize one of them for not bowing to her Authority. People can stand to be in the same room with that woman is beyond me. God bless those kids and I hope they get away from her. I'm serious, 18 and run
That woman was emasculating, highly abusive, disrespectful, treated her husband like he was some servant, as well as dirty gum under her shoe! Then it's truly ridiculous how she was able to turn everything around on Jon and made him look like the VILLIAN, the BAD GUY, a CHEATER, how he abandoned the kids which caused the media to destroy him & villify him and defend her abuse of him! What about when it FINALLY came to light that she had been separated herself from him and told him basically not to show it so that tv audience wouldn't really know what was going on....She gaslit him, threw him under the bus and flat out LIED for the cameras!! And it was HER FAMILY that came out and told the TRUTH..... People beat up on Jon, believed the lies of Kate, what happened when some of the kids when even they didn't want to film anymore but she even refused that.......I CANNOT STAND HER, NEVER COULD
She was mad tabloids got wind of what happened because he was spotted at the bar, she wanted to keep playing happy families. A major reason for them breaking up was Jon had wanted to either end the show or step back a bit from it but Kate was wanting to keep filming. She loved the attention from it.
Omg the way Nancy grace spoke to Jon was so disgusting. I grew up watching this show and my mom and I really sided with Kate. I don’t agree with that anymore and I definitely think Kate is more to blame.
Yes, I genuinely felt bad for Jon. If she hadn’t cut him off he was trying to explain to her that he was connecting the dots and understanding his family dynamics re:alcoholism in his family and how he doesn’t want to repeat the pattern, which in essence would benefit his kids as he would and could be a better father but she just had to cut him off. I don’t know much about Nancy Grace but geesh at least let him get his thoughts out and then respond.
Nancy Grace can be just as bad as Kate. When I first started watching her I liked her but it didn't take me long just like Kate to start seeing her rude better then now cocky attitude.
Kate does a great job at emasculating Jon then playing victim when he finally stands up for himself. God I can’t stand just listening to her nagging grating voice.
Nancy Grace owes Jon a big apology and needs to give Kate a big tongue lashing. I'm sorry, but i knew Kate was a narcissist, and she would hurt Jon badly. All Kate's legal and media narcissistic friends are still taking up for her after what she did to Collin and Hannah??? I DON'T THINK SO.. Kudos to Whoopi, Bethanney Frankel, Larry King, and the Judge's who enforced the law so Jon can stop his children from working and getting custody of the two he has. He made mistakes but found a person just right for him and his children, who loves them very much much.
I can't imagine Kate being a nurse. I have been a nurse for over 50 years, and Kate would be an absolute nightmare to work with!!! And just think how she must treat her patients?! Holy cow. I would never let her take care of me or any of my family, not even my cats.
The thing about a narcissist is that they live with the idea of who you should be in their mind and constantly compare the real you to this fictional perfect person. They don't want to know and will refuse to see who you really are, none of your hopes, dreams, or desires are valid. They are able to see all your faults though with laser focus no matter how minor. When Kate said she missed the old Jon she meant the fictional perfect one that she was constantly nagging him to be.
Whoopie is a terrible person! You don't a woman to smile more, not look like a bitch and it's okay bc you are also a woman. Reminded me of her "it's not rape rape" comment.
My mother is a narcissist (diagnosed when she went in for her "depression"). I remember her constant demeaning, disrespecting, disregarding, denigrating behavior towards our father & ourselves. To the point that we all, including our father, stopped helping her. Which only made her feel more like a martyr. Watching Kate, back when the show was airing made me physically ill. She turned my stomach. I loathed her then & I always figured that if Jon cheated he did it in a terrible misguided attempt to gain some sort of testicular fortitude. Now I'm the mother of 8, 7 0n this side of heaven. I've been homeschooling my 7 children for 13 years. I never talk to my husband this way. I'm very orderly, I have everything labeled & everything has a place. At the same time, if I want the b.s optics for a show's episode, of having Six, 2-3 year olds & Two, 6-7 year olds, "carving" pumpkins then I'm gong to grow up & deal with the mess, until they fully done. I know someone like Kate. She loves to take kids to really expensive places & do "really fun things". Except that then she rushes the kids through all the fun events, snapping pictures as she goes with the kids barely able to see or enjoy anything. To the point, that I refuse to attend anything with her because I'm not paying a ton of money to take my children somewhere only to be hurried & not allowed to enjoy their time because someone only came out for the Facebook likes. Kate reminds me of that woman. Doing things just for a TLC show. Not because she's interested in doing things for the kids' enjoyment.
@@Ms777Lena Yep . She was manipulative and controlling through and through. I’m so happy he is free of her and it’s a shame he was publicly dragged for simply trying to get equal access and fair treatment. Glad he’s finally free of that mess.
I had to stop at 51:58 because I almost had a break down. I’m married to a man who has narcissist personality disorder. I’m trying to “make my escape” by the end of this month so then my son and I can not be around his abusive tendency’s any more. I know exactly what Jon is feeling. My therapist says they people with NPD are great at wearing a mask and having everyone thinking they are a saint, but when the lights go down and it’s just you and them in a room and you are their prey they show you the true evil and disgusting person they are. Kate is a narcissist through and through. When Jon was on the ABC interview he was going through what all victims go through. You try to tell people how you have been treated and you have all of this built up anger from who the Narcissist is dragging your name through the mud. No one ever believes you and you end up looking crazy. It’s really a shock to your nervous system. When he talked about how she isolated him from everyone I started to tear up. My husband has done the same thing to me. The fog (as some victims) like to call it has finally lifted and when it lifted for Jon he probably realized that he was being abused. It’s hard for people who have never gone through something like this before to understand. And for Jon with him being a man and Kate being the woman it’s made it seem like he was just lazy and a child like man. He was abused. I feel for Jon. I pray and hope he finds himself after dealing with this traumatic event in his life.
It's actually got a name, it's called reactive abuse. My dad would get me really upset then record me yelling at him. He tried to make me look crazy but he would grin from ear to ear when he got me enraged. He knew exactly what he was doing. He did it to me all my life. Narcissists are very sick people, they just refuse to see it. They think they're perfect. They won't go to therapy because there's nothing wrong with them. It's infuriating.
@@lorimiller4301 YES!! I was extremely emotional watching this but yes, he was going through reactive abuse. It was making me so upset that no one was listening to him and calling him selfish or that it was his fault.
Kate acting clueless is baffling. Like girl you literally berated and abused Jon. Watching the show as a teen, I never liked Kate cuz she reminded me of my 3rd grade teacher. But seeing this as an adult, I'm disgusted by Kate and I understand why some of the kids chose to live with Jon instead. You could tell Jon felt trapped
I watched this is high school with my mom.. I remember her calling Kate out and saying he was going to leave her.. my mom always felt bad for him and never blamed him.. my mom is a great woman ❤
She literally belittles, and down grades her husband constantly. He just shuts down to avoid her going off on him for anything else. He does everything she wants him to do but then complains how he does it because it’s not the way she wanted him to. It’s was absolutely horrendous.
Jon, blink twice if you need help!!- That's all I could think while watching their show back in the day. He was no prize, but she was a MONSTER to deal with. Those poor children. OMG.
I watched this growing up and didn’t feel this way about Kate that I do now. I’m now a mom and just don’t understand her attitude. I get it, I get stressed too and have mini meltdowns but I learn from them which she doesn’t seem too. He’s a good day and playing and trying, just calm it down, I don’t know how you act that way and then not have guilt about ruining your kids time. Like she’s so frustratingly condescending
I agree, watching this years ago I had such a completely different take on it, now though as an adult I see things very differently. Thank you so much for watching and sharing your thoughts with us
@ Nicky Wiedmeier The reason you don't get it is because you're not a narcissist. The gold standard test to work out if you're a narcissist or not is if you're capable of actually asking yourself this question. A narcissist would NEVER ask themselves this because to do so would suggest there was something wrong with them and their paradigm of reality is that they are 100% perfect and that it's other people who are defective and the problem. Narcissism is a "water tight" ego defence mechanism. The person who has the disorder is incapable of "seeing" their anti-social behaviour because their psyche protects them from the truth of who they really are. A scared, angry and worthless young child who feels nothing but inner shame for themselves and rage at the world and suffers from extremely low self-esteem. A narcissist unconsciously harbours jealous feelings towards everyone in the world. Their disorder convinces them that other people are superior to them in every possible metric in existence. They have a preocupation with ideas of self love, beauty & vanity, ideal love and superiority. This is all that matters to them so from the minute they wake up they spend all their mental energy on identifying anyone who shows signs of surpassing them and proceeding to knock them off their "pedestal" so they can put themselves on it and stand out to everyone in an attempt to prove to themselves that they have any worth. A narcissist needs to abuse others as much as they need to breathe. Their abuse is a survival mechanism and without it they would "die". At least, that's what they tell themselves.
What strikes me is how Kate made Jon the scapegoat for her poor communication efforts. It was a no-win situation for him. Either he stayed out of her way to avoid her rage, or he is raged at for not reading her mind and steppung in. She says, "When I am stressing, YOU need to speak a certain way and say certain words." There is no acknowledgement that her feelings and reactions are out of proportion to the moment. There's no accountability for her behavior, just "stress". Everyone in that house is stressed, but she demands a level of self control and consideration from Jon that she is entirely unwilling to return towards him. She wants him to soothe her and then resents him for trying, and then for giving up when he realizes he doesn't matter. Also, she said, "I don't care what he says, I never yelled like that." He then points to 3 occasions that are on camera that show, yes, she did yell like that. Then she changes the goal posts: "In recent days, have I done that?" That wasn't the statement! Classic abuse tactic, dangling reality just out of grasp. It's crazy-making.
I'm literally cringing watching Kate's rude,overbearing and sarcastic treatment of poor John...I'm so very proud of him and the two children that did manage to get out from under Kate's iron fisted,cruel and harsh treatment...
Yes!! This is def a time when I was glad Whoopie spoke sense. Kate tried to play the devoted mommy card, but while Dad has custody he is allowed a babysitter choice just like she is allowed same during her time. Jon wasn’t a perfect man, but he got dragged on multiple levels by Kate and TLC for just trying to find a reasonable way to co-parent in a failing marriage.
Kate always used the kids as a shield whenever she said or did something horrible. She was immune to criticism and having to show other people basic human respect because she needs to take care of her kids.
It reminds me of large families who never show up on time then, say things like you wouldnt understand, when even bigger families can always be on time.
Love when she is saying she doesn't want him to blame her , yet she sat and blamed him for her bad behavior, because he didn't help her in the situation. She's an adult and can choose to not act that way.
On a side note, Kate was sleeping with her "bodyguard" for the duration of the show's run and Jon never ONCE accused her of cheating on him in spite of all the abuse she hailed on him. Of course she repeatedly accused him of cheating on HER all the way to the bitter end to a point of practically framing him during the show's hiatus. That is the very definition of narcissistic personality disorder. She deserves levels of karma of biblical proportions.
Kate having to change her wording during a disagreement to be right is such a 🚩. The media denying Jon’s side of the story and then the order silencing him for ten years is beyond wrong but not surprising with how misinformation spreads.
I watched this series when it first came out.....I remember telling my sister that they'd be divorced within the next 5yrs because every episode you could literally see the light in John's eyes slowly withering away from her constant harassment. IMO, Kate seemed like a Super mean, controlling, fun killing wife and mother....I felt So bad for how she slammed him in the tabloids, basically ruined his character and also damaged some of the relationship he had with some of his children. I'm glad that people are finally starting to reexamine the whole situation and look more closely at the kind of person the media machine convinced almost everyone to believe, love and admire....
OMG...I remember watching this show and thinking, does she ever SEE herself?? She really needed HELP, but not from Jon, from a professional therapist!! The stress lever of just watching the show grated my nerves, and I couldn't imagine poor Jon dealing with this witch daily and trying to enjoy his children and just life!! And what she pulled with COLLIN literally made me sick to my stomach...all of it was ABUSIVE ON BOTH JON AND ALL THE KIDS...AND THE PUBLIC THAT WATCHED THIS DISASTER AS IT WAS HAPPENING AND DREADING THE NIGHTMARES TO COME...
Fantastic video, Be! Loved this! When Jon said the network (or whoever he mentioned) thought he was crazy for walking away from millions- it reminded me of Dave Chappelle and the awful things that were said about HIM when he walked away from money. It’s so refreshing to see there’s people like this on earth, who won’t sell their souls for money. More power to them 🙌🏼
I would like to point out something that I haven’t seen anyone point out. There were warning signs about Jon and I am actually really happy that Kate asked him to be separated because he was definitely a ticking time bomb. I am in no way saying he was going to hurt anyone but he was definitely primed to explode. 1. Even in Season 1, you could see clear signs of depression in Jon. I will give Kate the benefit of the doubt and say she could have been depressed as well but Jon was showing the signs of being massively depressed. 2. Him being stand-offish is a sign of someone who has had their opinions and help repeatedly pushed away. At that point, a person stands off because they don’t know what the other expects of them as well as not wanting to be the one to trigger yet another fight. 3. Weight gain. I will give the media this, when she fat shammed him they did not stand with her. The footage of him eating and her belittling him by mentioning how he wasn’t working out, boiled my blood. Again, it’s a sign of one who is depressed. 4. The dead inside look. I know this one all too well. I was told when I was under immense stress, mental strain, and massively depressed I looked dead inside. At the time, I was also being horribly verbally abused. Whenever you saw them on the couch and he just looked worn down, it was more than likely that when the cameras were off, it was 1000x worse. I am in no way saying that Jon was a Saint, however, what I am saying is that the warning signs were most definitely there and it’s scary how millions of people could watch someone who was clearly in distress and… well ignore it. By the time the show originally aired, I was already in my early 20s and just did not like Kate. I despised everything about her. During that time, I had a temper and could most definitely lash out, and I STILL could not fathom speaking to someone the way she spoke to him. Note: It does my heart good however that people are now recognizing that Jon was horribly mistreated and I want everyone to be aware that he could have crapped silver and Kate would have told him to crap gold.
Your comment is such an amazing breakdown of what we saw. It’s worded so well and easy to follow. I completely agree with you on every point you made. The signs were definitely there. Even Kate said so herself that he aged a lot.
@@leileyaravencroftwell she is the ticking time bomb. I know very well narcissist abuse, as my mother did it to me. They are the one who explose in anger frustration and unleash violence. My mother did the same as Kate did. As soon as I wasnt of any use for her she created a story. She lied to the cops and justice trying to make me look like a violent person because I was only standing my ground against her abuse. She lied and played the story of the poor little fragile women being abused. Thats 100% the opposite but then its too late, she took control of the narrative and you end up looking like an insane person. And she already told others look he is insane and has insane reaction. Like the son Collin she put on a mental asylium for "special need" lmao he just need a decent mother and not a crazy bitch. Those people are acting like bomb they take their time, it usualy last for years and decades of abuse and the moment you cease to take it or stop reacting and feeding their need for anger and negative emotion they just end you and dispose of you like a trashbag. Lets put my kid in a asylum, lets put my kid in jail. Lets put my husband out of the show, out of the house and rush for the cameras and witnesses with a good story of abuse and you being a poor victim. Narcissist are no joke and it need to be studied because there are a growing number of cases for some reasons and justice, cops lawyers, doctors need to be aware of those manipulative ppl
This is just another example how manipulative media can be. We all knew Kate was rude & abusive to Jon. She was controlling & angry when the kids just tried to do normal kid things. It got hard to watch. The kids would have had a more relaxed life in a Marine bootcamp.
watching this after seeing their son Collin speak out on how kate institutionalized him at just 12 years old….TWELVE!!! he mentioned how she said on the show that hes away at a “camp for special needs”. he also mentioned how he was scared and did not like being there at all and sent letters to jon begging for help and to get him out of there. he hasn’t lived lived with her ever since then and jon gained custody over him and his twin sister. clearly shes the problem, just toxic and abusive!
As someone who has experienced narcissistic abuse, I can't imagine what it must have felt to be in a relationship with a person like Kate. The argument at 19:00 is a classic case of someone choosing to bicker over tangential issues in an argument so as to evade accountability when confronted with evidence of a pattern of behaviour. I can't imagine 10 years of these kinds of deflections. It is incredible how quickly Kate adapted to the new reality of their impending divorce and immediately started working portray herself as the victim in the relationship.
It drives me literally UP THE WALL when abusive women like her are just allowed to continue to be that way, when if the roles were reversed, the wouldn’t be able to get her and all 43 of their kids out fast enough!!
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I watched this show when my now teenagers were very small and I just kept thinking bless that man and his patience with that woman. Kate was truly the first Karen.
Both of them resented each other SO heavy. They hated being near one another. I feel bad for both. They were so unhappy and a lot of it is because of her attitude. We watched their worst moments.
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@@ksupernovageorge8551 thank you so much for your support!! I really appreciate it ❤️
Would you do an episode on Nancy Grace? She's a menace
@@taniaABal I can definitely cover Nancy Grace. I don’t know much about her, but I’m adding her to the list. Thanks for the recommendation!
@@betheecommentator :)! I kinda miss your openings!
Kate is unbearable. She treated John in a demeaning and abusive way. If he had spoken to her like that over and over, people would have crucified him.
I completely agree, if the roles were reversed and we watched a man speak to a woman the way Kate spoke to and treated Jon it would’ve been over
I agree... However Jon knew he couldn't be a good husband and father of 8 children in the long run. He wasn't honest to himself to not get himself in the situation in the first place.
Dee Anna when I saw the premiere of their show Jon and Kate + 8 I knew their marriage wasn’t going to last the way she spoke to Jon and the kids.
@@psalms1196 Yes I Agree with you the pressures of 8 kids is a lot but Kate was like this with other people as well numerous Nannies and babysitters quit because they said she was impossible to work for. Her DWTS dance partner that poor man nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to work with her she was rude and condescending with him and I think he was glad when they got voted off the show.
I feel like they both treated each other like shit honestly. He was very condescending and disconnected. She was overbearing and neurotic. The fact is that they never really stood a chance having that many kids the same age all at once. That would be enough to break anyone. At least Kate was hands on and got shit done. I don't think they're bad people though. Just not meant to be together.
The fact that Kate’s own siblings spoke publicly on behalf of Jon is very telling.
Tell the truth, enough of Kate’s bs “true”
Wow really I would to see that
I'm not a Whoopi Goldberg because of her political views. But like I always said, women know women and saw through Kate's Bullshit
The fact that she hasn't spoken to TWO of her children in YEARS speaks volumes!!!
@Beautyonabarnbudget Honesty, I've divorced and have two children. One likes me ( daughter ) and my other ( son) dosen't want to have anything to do with me. It's all about how you raise them. Maybe the kids 🤔 🤷 saw the truth and don't talk with their mother
The most upsetting part of the whole thing to me is that Jon was undeniably emotionally and mentally abused, and the public was so okay with contributing to the punching down during/after the divorce even though they had seen so much of that play out on television, knowing it had to be worse off-camera. When people tell you who they are, believe them the first time, because an abusive person will ALWAYS try to make their victim's reality look distorted to try to further their own narrative and control it.
Couldn’t have said it better!
That is why those interviews where she is almost tearful, freak me out because I am almost fooled by it!!! It's diabolical!!! Kate is to blame for the horrible treatment of her family!!
I will say John should have thought about having that many children in his 20s!! Kate definitely saw a good victim in John, she knew who she could push around and he let her do it!!! Sad all the way around!!!
Yes, and ironically her most recent statement about her son Collin was “his distorted perception of reality”…. What a typical response. That’s exactly what the abuser wants people to believe about the victim.
@@leigha000 I saw that too and it made me think back to this comment - I really wish I hadn’t been so spot on, if only because of what the implication is and what that means for Collin. I wish him all the best.
Please remember they married June 12,1999. Twins born early in May 2000? I’m missing the whole infertility thing. Pcos can cause infertility = AT LEAST 12 MONTHS AND NO PREGNANCY BUT IT’S 24 months if under 25-26. Do math 🧮 and please explain it
This is by far the best coverage of this show and the drama that surrounded it, Jon is owed a serious apology for being dragged like that
Oh wow thank you so much!! I agree, I’m not saying Jon is perfect; far from it. But he really was dragged by the media and public for years while Kate continued to perpetuate the “woe is me narrative” when she knew the truth.
Instead of speaking the truth she threw him under the bus and tried to save herself.
The truth always comes out.
The world owes Jon a huge apology
Yes 👏🏻 Was thinking through the Nancy Grace bit that I hope she calls him up and apologizes.
@@jacquelynroe9036 he definitely held his own with Nancy tho lol
@@jacquelynroe9036 that witch, like Kate would never admit they're wrong.
@@jacquelynroe9036 I wouldn’t watch Nancy Grace if you paid me. She just seems nasty
@@jacquelynroe9036 you know damn well Nancy Grace isnt doing that
There was an episode toward the beginning where Kate says “If one of us wants to stop (doing the show), we stop.” Jon wanted to stop. She didn’t. She lied.
LIED BIG TIME!!!!!💯💯 She wanted fame she wanted fortune, she wanted to be the Queen of television and she did INDEED say that if any of them wanted out then it'd be over, yeah right Kate!!!
Isn’t that how it always goes
As it got bigger and the paparazzi got involved, he wanted to step back and she couldn’t get enough of the fame.
She probably said it because he had already brought it up too. So gross.
Fame got to her
She acted like Jon playing with the kids was him being useless. Someone’s gotta watch them, might as well make it fun
And that's just what dad's do, gives us a heart attack but the kids love it. 💯😂
It's him being a parent...something she clearly needed some help with
@@spud6195 honestly Jon did a lot more than the average dad: took care of the kids while his wife was away, arrives home ASAP and immediately starts helping around the house, plays with the kids and genuinely seems to care for them especially considering that he had 8 kids in his late 20s.
Seriously, Kate was more concerned with keeping things clean. Let the kids have their fun, join in and spend time with him, then get to the cleaning later.
Jon just needed to smack her in the mouth. Plain and simple.
I’ll never forget when Jon got scolded for not using the $20 coupon for Home Depot. I knew at that moment it was over.
She has a right to be frustrated about him spending more than necessary. She could have approached the situation differently, but still.
She can be frustrated but not talking to him like a child. ^ I agree, the second I watched that part I was like hmmm a divorce really didn’t surprise me
@@jamiebom1023 I AGREE, SHE HANDLED IT LIKE JON WAS A CHILD,. SHE IS A NAGGING SHREW!
@jamiebom1023 If you want something done right, do it yourself. If that level of frustration comes from that small an issue when they are millionaires, she is the problem.
@@SwordHMX 💯
The way she flipped out over gum on a sock is such a good representation of the type of person she is. Can you imagine growing up with a mother who constantly screams, even over the most trivial things. That has to be extremely stressful and exhausting for those poor kids.
Idk, maybe she had like.. 2 hrs of sleep every night for weeks? I might flip out over a sock too then! I have five kids and I haven’t had more than 4-6 hrs of sleep in like 12 yrs! I feel for her. Everyone wants to judge her, yet literally no one can begin to stand in her shoes.
@@Blueberryviolet178 obviously, not. Obviously, not my point. 👍🏻
I don't have to imagine that. Ugh. It can be so difficult to overcome that kind of worry and fear.
Yeah but I imagine myself with 8 kids and absolutely understand why she would flip out. Nobody walked in her shoes and we should all shut out mouth. Instead you have 8 kids under 10.
@@meebeam1805u are so right. People think they know how they would react in the same situation. We all have been thinking about a way to fake our own death and move to Bahamas and most of us have less then 2 kids!!! That's what I would have done... Probably. You also have to imagine a crew with a camera on ur face 24/7. And we are critical of her decisions about the show. Would you have turned down a multi million dollar offer knowing that u have 12 kids to send to university??? She didn't have the luxury to tell no. Her kids are what they are because of that show and I am pretty sure they would have been poor otherwise.
My sympathy goes out to any store manger Kate has ever asked to speak to.
lol
Kate was the original Karen, before Karen became a thing😅
@@PrincessPowerranger my son said, she has the Karen haircut lol
@@Lozoyam1 I believe she's the REASON the Karen haircut is that haircut.
@@HeatherSealey that makes sense lol
My grandmother swore up and down from the day the show premiered that Kate was an awful person and she predicted their divorce from day 1 .
your grandmother was experienced and wise
Yes your grandmother was right 👏👍I remember seeing the premiere of their show and was thinking the same thing she as horrible to Jon. 😱
Grandma knows best!
It was not difficult to see 👀
I still vividly remember my mom telling me, on the day they aired renewing their vows, that they would be divorcing soon. In my adolescent brain I thought she was crazy, but looking back I think I was the crazy one. And I never even liked Kate, I got the same feeling I got from some of my friends parents, where I can look back now and see there was clear abuse, but at the time I couldn't identify it.
When you have that many kids you kind of HAVE to be a little relaxed when it comes to mess and organization. It’s stressful watching Kate try to micromanage every little thing!
That is very true, it’s not going to be perfect
You is so right. Like, Kate you got 8 kids. Things gonna get messy. That's just life.
@@tashibalampkin8555 If she didn’t want that she she shouldn’t have forced Jon to have more kids. Or better yet she shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place
I agree. I just had to explain this to my daughter. Let the baby be a baby and clean it up later…. 😊
I kinda feel for her a little bit with there a some negative stereotypes with large families, and with the world watching everyone has something to say. Wish she got therapy to be a better person about it
the seasons argument had my blood boiling. she was clearly deflecting and not acknowledging the fact that she fat shamed her husband while a camera crew was filming. Now had the roles been reversed ....
Right had the roles been reversed….
I thought the same thing. She knew he was talking about what she said ON CAMERA which is why he said “seasons”… you can never win with ppl like her.
Is she fat now? Lol
@@mangos08 Facts. I only hope others can learn from seeing this. Don't believe them when they repeatedly claim they're trying to change. Get out as soon as you see it; the longer you stay, the longer you need therapy after leaving.
It's a great example of why people in a relationship with someone like this become so passive. They will talk in circles until you just become so exhausted and confused, you just give up.
*Jon does literally anything*
Kate:"YOURE NOT DOING IT MY WAY.. SO MOVE AND I'LL DO IT!"
*Jon stays out of the way*
Kate: "You never help me!"
She was IMPOSSIBLE! I have no idea how Jon lasted as long as he did in the marriage. I thought he was a gross old creeper! I still think the girls he dated were kinda young, it was a bit weird, but I misjudged him. I'm glad the truth is coming to light, because I can't imagine the amount of suffering and bullying and gaslighting he endured. It must have been MISERABLE. She's so toxic. She's showing her true colors now. She's still messing with him. Using her children to make his life as hard as possible. She's horrible I feel so bad for Jon. Kate is so vengeful. I just feel bad for judging him even though it was so long ago.
Enough to make a person insane. She is incredibly lucky that he didn't snap.
@@MeganVictoriaKearnsI think the reason he dated younger women was because they were in their early 20s when they got married and had kids pretty much right away. I think he was emotionally stunted, checked out for all those years because she was constantly berating him. So mentally, he was still in his early 20s
John finds a woman who likes it done his way....lol
Concerning the son who Jon hadn’t seen in a year and a half. Kate had him admitted to a mental health hospital because she didn’t want to deal with him. She even wrote in her diary that she didn’t like him. She never told Jon where he was, but the boy snuck a note out to his dad to come and get him, rescue him. The bot now lives with Jon and he’s a straight A student and doing very well.
The woman is a monster.
Cara also stayed with Jon but now she's in college and on the crew team
My heart breaks for Colin! She had no empathy or patience with him. How was she allowed to drop him off like that? WTF kind of place was that, needs an investigation run on it.
Also had something to do with TLC contract. Children should be available to be filmed and she said “mental disability “ so she wouldn’t be sued by TLC.
Not sure if she used that exact term but it was in the area.
There's a guy who was in the same facility for a few weeks. Says he couldn't imagine how devastated a 12 yr old who had no visitors would deal with it. And he regrets not contacting jon to tell him but he himself was 16 with some issues of course
Stop lying. The doctor admitted him
I love that Whoopi doesn't let Kate excuse her behavior. Whoopi lets her know that what Kate did was so wrong no matter the excuse.
I was thinking the same thing!
Going around in circles is a sign of a lie. She is flailing around making excuses about the babysitter. She's passive aggressively accused him of choosing a dangerous baby sitter and she's coming to save them because she's a parent and he's not. Giving up the micromanaging of the kids, god forbid they might be playing and getting dirty, oh no.
Can't believe I actuallyt agree with Whoopi!
Absolutely 👍I saw that episode Whoopi saw right through Kate’s nonsense really called her out on it and Kate knew Whoopi wasn’t having it.
Whoopi is a joke
Kate is constantly saying how she “doesn’t have help” or how she had no “personal space” etc, yet SHE wanted to have more kids.
She found out fat meat greasy and doesn't like it.
Who would want it helps somebody that always tells you you're doing it wrong and insist that you get out of the way, you're just making more work. That's pretty much what she would do
Also, she did have help: volunteers at her place, a whole living room renovation, gifts from the community such as prams, etc.
She has been so blessed through all the experience and given that, her initial plan was to raise these 8 children by herself while her husband worked, I think it's safe to say, it really turned out for the best.
Not to mention she had an army of people volunteering help at irst and then John always helping and even hired staff and neighbors and friends. She had a lot of help.
No amount of help can satisfy someone like kate lol she criticizes everyone who tries😅
I watched this show as a child and didn't think much of Kate's outbursts. It just seemed she was frustrated and exasperated, so maybe her chastisement was understandable.... but watching back as an adult, omg, this wasn't just her being bitchy, she was downright abusive and awful. I could never think of talking to my partner like that, no matter how I was feeling. She takes every instance to belittle him, and from their early family videos BEFORE kids...this was just how she was, not how she was because she was exasperated with small children.
Yes, multiple parenthood just highlighted, who she was all along.
I agree, I remember watching this show as a kid and "siding" with Kate (I was.. all of maybe 11, lol). Looking back now, wow, this isn't how adults behave. And maybe that's the difference, she gets overwhelmed and feels frustrated and expresses those emotions a lot like a child would, so I related to it. Now that I've matured past 11 it doesn't seem like Kate ever did. She complains about Jon shutting down, but she constantly belittles him in front of his children. Of course he went numb. She was the one who lacked communication skills and maturity, but she did great at putting on a face and gaslighting people into believing that was just the way it had to be done, mostly with snide comments and yelling. The way she screamed at her baby just for stepping in gum broke my heart.
Yes she really seems to enjoy every chance she gets to belittle him.
I think the boy she sent away maybe reminded her of John, but stuck up for himself and she wouldn't stand for that. I didnt watch it too much, busy with my own little brood. But I never liked the way she talked down to him. It was always a constant attack on his character. It doesnt surprise me he looked elsewhere for some kindness. It's like a dog being called over and getting punched in the face, over and over again.
I watched it to and remember being so confused why everyone hated her because my mom would yell and roll her eyes the same way😅😂now i know better
Jon was so patient with Kates psychotic treatment of him😢 he’s just not a confrontational person 😮
She knew that when she decided to quickly marry him. Notice she's been filming herself since long before the reality TV show. Kate was always a narcissist, and Jon became her victim. Later, the kids were used for her benefit. Honestly, I think she had the six kids for the attention.
He crazy as hell. No way she wasn’t always like that?! That’s so unattractive and he married her. That’s on him
Wow. She actually had narcissistic personality disorder before EVERYONE started calling everyone a narcissist like they know what it is.
Most narcissistic people are not diagnosed as such because to do so the individual would have to admit they have a problem.
Narcissistic will never truly admit they're wrong or imperfect.
Just because the term wasn't public knowledge doesn't mean it didn't exist before.
The term has been overly saturated especially in the media in recent years to invalidated it's existence.
But it's still a reality that 40%+ of the population has.
John wasn't another child. She treated him like a child. She was both verbally and physically abusive. I got sick of watching her slap him "playfully." She was the most narcissistic person I'd ever seen before I even knew there was a word for narcissism.
💯💯 I was a teen watching this show sporadically and I erroneously that her behavior was “normal”
Now as an adult? I physically cringe and I’m angered and SO PUT OFF by her behavior towards Jon, towards the kids and towards the camera crew (and how she would triangulate them during her yelling at Jon and telling them, “Can you BUH-LIEVE what I have to put up with?!?”) 🙄😒
I guarantee that Jon did try to help out a lot with the kids. She probably micromanaged and berated everything he would do. That's why he became "unhelpful" and withdrawn from everything. She's the worst!
Exactly he could stand still without her saying something to him and then complain when he try to help out with the kids.
couldn’t I meant
@@PorcelainRequiem she said on the show it was him that bathed them all every night after work and did his fair share of chores. She also had friends that helped her with laundry and looking after the children. She had plenty of help until she pushed them away.
Imagine not being able to defend yourself for a *DECADE* .... While Kate/TLC got to say whatever they wanted about you. That'd be incredibly frustrating.
After watching part 1, I read Kate's book (Multiple Blessings) and this book that exposed Kate... just wow.
As for the children that haven't talked to Jon in awhile, remember that parental alienation is a very real thing. Who knows what Kate has put in their heads...
Kate blew a fuse at Jon for not using a coupon for a showerhead.
@@LaraCroftEyes1 I've now been watching the show from the beginning (never watched while on the air). Omg... seeing that.... I felt awful for Jon. She loved humiliating and degrading him every chance she got.
Wait till you see Kate yelling at the top of her lungs at Jon at the Toysrus store
@@LaraCroftEyes1 lol saw that too. I couldn't imagine talking to my husband like that... or having him speak to me like that.
It's insane how he banned for TEN YEARS while they got to say anything
When Kate says, “my husbands absent, as usual” is so bull!! Anytime John tries to help she belittles him, tells him he can’t do it right, then make him leave bc she’s too frustrated! Like girl what??
And then she goes to say, “a husband who loves his wife would’ve stepped forward” like bro HE DOES then you get all pissy!
She’s fucking exhausting man! She’s just like my birth mom! You can’t do anything right bc it’s not “her way”
I’m glad John is out of that relationship bc it really took a toll on him
THESE 2 LOSERS SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD 8 KIDS.
Took a toll on us too.
She also missed multiple court days when “fighting” for custody
and how about the "i never said i never have help." then jon says, "yes, you just said it." so kate says, "yes, i say it bc you don't do this and this..." (paraphrasing)
no, even if you do it her way, she'll still find something to criticize. she tries to make herself "look better" by trying to make others "look bad." she wants people to think she's sooo hardworking and organized to be so "passionate"
Just that yell from across the store JON is enough for divorce that's insane 😂
🤣🤣
Like can you not just get a cashier with the PA system to say “Jon Gosselin, please come to the front of the store”
Kate: "I've never done that since and I don't care what he says. We've never been in a store where I yelled across the store. Hello?"
Jon: "Yes, you have."
Kate: "When?"
Jon: "Crayola Factory."
*cuts to actual family outing at the Crayola Factory*
Kate: "Jon, JOOONNN!!!!!"
😭😂
😂😂😂
Then two other examples. And of course we see more of it
EXACTLY 😂😂😂😂 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@jeannettedodge5886 Producers like "well we can literally check the taped footage, so why not?" KATE YOU ARE BEING FOLLOWED BY CAMERAS AT ALL TIMES. HOW ARE YOU STILL TRYING TO GASLIGHT HIM?
@@GotLostProductions you asking me how I'm gaslighting Jon? I watched their show from the beginning. That woman was awful to Jon. I also seen her yelling at him in the store. So I'm not sure what you mean in your comment because I was agreeing with the other comments???
So interesting listening to this because 1) I never saw John as inept or childish. I always saw him as the one who valued quality time and enjoyment of the kids while Kate was a perfectionist who prioritized outward appearances over connecting and guiding the kids in a loving way. 2) I HATED watching Kate abuse John with constant insults and criticisms and complaints. I wished the show would focus on the kids and stop showing them fighting all the time. 3) I didn't admire her as a mother or wife. I wished her well and hoped she would get counseling so she could be a happier person and better mom.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us!!
Jon clearly liked the quality time, but the drama of young girls, refusal to work, ect. Is all childish
@@SpicyPlur he worked when the children were born, then got home and took care of them. Which in sure was very stressful, if they were making all that money with tlc it makes sense he decided to stay at home to be a full time dad with Kate.
@@Marinlss that was only for the beginning. That was not going on when he was a gag stripper, dj, dating 20yr Olds with no custody of his kids. Acting like people don't get married and start a family in their 20s. He was a good parent till he decided to stop.
KATE WAS SO OCD. SHE CLEANED THAT STOVE EVERY NIGHT AND WASHED THE FLOOR 3 TIMES A DAY. LOL TRYING TO MAKE THINGS PERFECT WAS HER WAY OF CONTROLLING HER ANGER AND HER LIFE AND THE CHAOS.
All I can say is I hope Jon has finally found peace… Kate reminds me of my mother and this literally gave me flashbacks 🙃
I hope the same for you💕
Tina Jarvis is at peace.
same 🥴 Kate is literally like my mom. I realized that while watching this
Same here.
Years ago watching this at 19 yrs old I thought this was normal bc my mother was worse than Kate. 20 yrs and tons of therapy have shown me this whole situation was so abusive.
Whoopi Goldberg being the only one that questions Kate is blowing me away but I’m happy to see it. At least someone had some sense in all that lol
Right she was the only one that challenged her and tried to be impartial, good to see
And of course the lunatic Sherri Shepherd was trying to cut Whoopi off.
We all know why.... some people don't like to confront their own people
Watching this was hard honestly. Seeing Kate being so blatantly abusive yet still being praised by the media back then is crazy. 2000s-early 2010s culture normalized so many things that I just can’t believe we ever let slide…
Right it is so interesting revisiting the past and seeing how horrible this situation was handled back then. I would hope that this have improved now and that we don’t/aren’t normalizing these situations.
Thank you so much for watching
There's so much she got away with while using her kids as a shield. Any criticism, "muh kids" but she selfishly decided to have them
I am glad we evolved.
Never liked her from the very beginning.
she emasculated him, demeaned him, humiliated him. i will never understand when people get shocked their s/o asks for a divorce after being so impossible to live around. i remember when it all went down i was a tween-young teen & the media definitely took kates side & trashed john over time i wised up and realized kate was the issue all along
Same! I was in high school and thought he was awful, but now I see the reality of it
Jon reading his renewal of marriage vows sounds so much like a hostage video.
I noticed this! Especially when he quoted her in saying “I’ll ask what I can do to be of help when you’re in stress”
He has said now regretted the vow renewal because he knew deep down it wasn’t going to last much longer.
Lmao
😂
Friendly FYI: This video was recorded prior to one of the Gosselin children doing an interview explaining their strained relationship with their siblings and Kate.
Because this video was completed prior to that, that interview is not included in this video. Also, the focus for this video is the adults in the situation; Jon and Kate, not the children who are innocent parties.
Lastly, I got really sick towards the end of making this so you might notice a change in my voice at certain points; my apologies in advance.
Thank you for watching! Have a great day!!
Hope you feel better! ❤️
@@WandaPickles2023 aww thank you so much, I do feel better! ❤️❤️ I hope you’re well too
The son’s interview was heartbreaking 😢 I feel so bad for him.
@@LilyBe3 me too, and I have to say he seems so mature and well spoken. Good for him for standing and speaking up for himself!
Is there a link on TH-cam to the interviews with the children?
everything about this whole "family drama" is blatant display of sexism. why was kate allowed to do all this and claim she's a mother like it allows her to be awful. he had every right to be a father and keep in contact with his kids. she worked her ass off to ruin his reputation 💀
I thought the same thing that this was a heavy display of sexism. The way the media pushed certain narratives, to how Kate treated Jon on camera, if the roles were reversed what would we all have thought?
I’m not saying Jon is perfect, far from it as none of us are perfect, but in my opinion the way he was humiliated on the show and dragged in the media was not right. Just my humble opinion
@@betheecommentator agree, he's not without a fault but so is kate, then why one of them had to be painted as some sort of angel 💀
@@migoreng7789 right?! I think it made sense for Kate’s team because she was the one that would continue on with the show. See, they needed to make Kate appear more likeable to keep the ratings high.
But the show just didn’t work without Jon. To keep ratings, I feel like the network needed that friction.
Yes! I was thinking that when Kate was nagging Jon about his eating/weight.
100%!!!!
Kate was absolutely horrible to her husband, I can’t imagine the stress that 6 toddlers would bring to a couple, but my god how could anyone stand to ever be around that woman. I get anxiety every time she speaks to Jon
I love how Whoopi saw right through Kates bs. Kates a good speaker, so she knows how to come across as caring when she is being manipulative and condescending. Her choice of words makes you question whether she is real or gaslighting.
I loved that segment. It was great to see Whoopi challenge her and push back.
Jon is absolutely right run Jon run
This is the definitive Jon and Kate documentary. So very well edited and thorough. I never watched Jon & Kate on a regular basis, but have vaguely followed the rise and fall of them via the headlines in grocery store tabloids and clickbait articles. I feel like I finally see the whole picture.
Thank you so much, I’m glad you enjoyed it and found it to be a well rounded documentary. Thank you again!
I'm the same. I don't think I ever watched a full episode. But I watched the drama.
@@betheecommentator You have one of the best channels on TH-cam. I appreciate the hard work you put into making them! I hope TH-cam makes sure you’re compensated.
That was such an OCD moment when she made them stop decorating pumpkins so she could clean up. They weren't done making the mess!!
Lol I can relate a bit to Kate in that sense, I don’t like messes, watching her though made me be more mindful and to relax 🤣🤣
I feel
@@betheecommentator same here I can see where Kate is coming from but at the same time if you don't like things being messy them don't have 8 kids
Did you see the episode? They went to Disney World and had ice cream and she started taking the ice cream away from the children because it was melting on them so all of the kids were crying because they got their treat ripped away from them.
Also, their daddy was carving pumpkins with them, and she wanted him to stop to help clean up.... so fucking annoying. Let Jon live
It's crazy to see just how much the world has changed since 2009. If this happened today I think a lot more people would realize how abusive Kate is and take Jon's side. As a teenager I thought Kate was so rude and insufferable but it's crazy to watch it back as an adult and see the blatant abuse!
rewatching this as an adult i see why my parents used to say “Kate is HORRIBLE” and i was like nooo she’s not. but she’s got to be the most toxic person alive
I remember being a kid and being SHOCKED at their divorce and thinking they were the last couple I thought would separate. Looking back… it’s kind of sad that I thought this was a healthy relationship
Why did they stay together just for fame money yep used kids
Really? Everyone i know saw how mean she was and knew it was just a matter of time before it was over
Damn I feel for Jon so much! I grew up with a narcissistic parent and know how truly abusive they are to live with, especially when they want absolute control. I still remember watching one of their 4th of July episodes when I was 9 and feeling so uncomfortable and icky after watching it bc of how cruel Kate was.
After this I'm seriously feeling #justiceforjon vibes! It's interesting how it's come out recently she took money from Collin and Hannah's trusts. I'm fascinated by the fact that "She needed to survive" from the funds of the kids she's not raising.
A lot of the truth came out after the ending of this mess,but too much chaos and wasting money.
@Freda English haha!!!
Like she needed a boob job and all those shoes.
What Jon wanted to say is “We had two toddlers and YOU insisted we have more kids before we had figured out or relationship and parenting styles BEFORE we added more children” Kate seems like the bad guy and she’s just controlling in a way that makes her inflexible and condescending. Really its just not trusting that the world keeps spinning even if all 8 kids lose their shoes and the floor isn’t clean. We would have that same dynamic in our marriage if I didn’t learn to stop trying to “raise” my husband and let him be a man. He on his part now trusts me and allows me to run the things that I do well like bill pay and saving/investing without complaint.
agreed. it’s hard to watch her talk down to him like he’s a child. i hate how the media tried to portray kate’s treatment towards him as “she has to raise a ninth child” when in reality she chose to treat him like a child. i’m sure he had his issues but it was so clear that his best was never going to be good enough for her. i’ve been in relationships like that and it’s horrible. i also can’t imagine how people would’ve reacted to their argument over kate calling him fat for “three seasons” if the roles were reversed. her inability to take responsibility and hear him out is really sad. it’s almost scary how good she was at manipulating him.
@@crab2195 I can tell you from experience, there's no almost- it's absolutely terrifying and, after nearly a decade, I still struggle to trust my own judgment after believing what I did when I was with my ex. It really messes a person up.
@@sourgreendolly7685 yeah i agree. as i’ve said before i’ve been in a relationship like that and it destroys your confidence and self-worth. i wasn’t even married to my narcissistic ex and it was still torture.
Beta male
She always seemed to expected a level of kindness and respect from him that she never gave. And the fact that she had fans... could you imagine if it was him constantly belittling, condescending, and verbally abusing her on national tv. He would have been even more hated than he was.
The level of abuse is simply astounding, and people just watched it with joy. It's simply heartbreaking. I would freeze during abusive episodes in past relationships just like him freeze and appease, not speaking because I didn’t have a voice anyway. One word can trigger a borage of screaming and shoving. I feel for John and those children so damn much.
I’m an identical quad, and while any children put a strain on martial relationships, my parents have never spoken to each other like Kate does with Jon. I read another comment that said something about watching as a kid and not thinking much of Kates fits. But as an adult, that also grew up in a similar mother-of-multiples setting, looking back at this it’s clear how horrid Kate treated Jon. Of course he seems indecisive, unsure of himself, and not eager to jump in to help. Bc every attempt made was probably rejected in a way bc it wasn’t “the right way” or “helpful enough”. It’s almost unbearable to sit through and watch.
I remember your TLC specials :) So glad your upbringing was so different from the Gosselin children's, and I hope you and your family are thriving today :)
Kate just grates my my last nerve's last little nerve! It's like she just CAN'T be happy and live in the moment. I don't think she actually enjoyed her kids until they started school and she wasn't with them 24/7. Jon may not have wanted that 2nd pregnancy, but he definitely loved being with his children. He enjoyed being in the moment. He played with them. I can't remember seeing her ever truly just playing with them. Not teaching them how to cook, or on a trip to an amusement park. Just outside, participating in the activities and not watching. That made me feel for the kiddos so much. I remember asking my mom to leave me alone, she was always playing with me so much lol. But these kids didn't have that. Those memories of mud pies, tea parties and playground shenanigans with my mom are still my favorite memories as a child with my mom and I'm 42 years old. So I can't imagine how they're feeling at 18 and 22, but never having those memories with their mom.
I'm about halfway through (I watch everything at 2x speed) and you've done a great job once again, BE! I was waiting for this one. And you've knocked it out the park yet again. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾♥️♥️♥️😁😁😁
Omg it was rough going through these clips and putting them together for the video, I was getting headaches lol. Her energy is…a lot 🤣
You also bring up a good point re: Kate not playing much with the kids. She always seemed very uptight
Also, thanks so much for your support!!! I’m always so appreciative ❤️❤️
@@betheecommentator you've turned into a favorite creator of mine because you do excellent work and I will always support your channel for that reason. I'm rooting for you!
Well that makes me feel better about my toddler telling me she needed “some alone time” the other day. Lol! In all seriousness though, I’m so glad you have those memories with your mom. It’s a good reminder for us all to live in the moment with our kids because each phase goes by so quickly.
@@spa-peggymeatballs4861 thinking of a toddler asking for “alone time” is so stinkin cute lol. I’m glad your kiddo knows how to identify what they need & communicate it! Shows good parenting on your part for sure :)
P.S. Ho-yeah! I love your username!
@@sagisunshine9376 lol! It was cute. It was said in a very matter of fact way.
And I read that HO-YEAH in the exact voice it was intended to be read in 😂. Thank you for the kind words ❤️
realizing now that i think i liked this show so much as a kid because the way jon and kate talked to each other reminded me of my parents. my trauma makes a little bit more sense now.
That would make a lot of sense to how your resonated with the show, very interesting insight. Thank you for commenting
SAMEEE
“She purposely tried to cut me off from my Mom & Brothers…she HATED when I would spend time with them-she would guilt me by saying ‘why do u have to spend time with your Mother, why don’t you spend time with your children instead?’” As if he didn’t LIVE 24/7 with his kids…as soon as I heard that, I was like “Ok, she’s THAT kinda person.”
If you ever find yourself dating that kinda person, hopefully it’s BEFORE you marry them & have kids with them, but if you do…GET OUT. Oh that’s the worst kind of person. And I’m not surprised that she took an opportunity to blindside him when things were peaceful & calm-they all will drop you immediately once you cease being useful to them…
In retrospect I can’t believe how badly Kate and the media treated Jon. I’m sure he has flaws but god damn. How did he not have a breakdown?
Gosh but look how different when they split up. When interviewed he had a voice and that's good to see
He did have a breakdown. That's why their marriage finally ended.
How did he not smother her in her sleep
He probably did, we just didn’t see it.
Over the years I've yet to hear one person side wth Kate. How she treated Jon is etched in everyone's memory. What she did to her son Colin by dumping him in a mental hospital then abandoning him there is unforgivable!
It sounds like she put him in some type of residential and educational facility for adolescents. This is a difficult decision to make for a child. In her case, the fact that (according to Collin) she didn't visit often and now he doesn't have a relationship with his other siblings that still live with her is beyond sad. Those type of facilities DEFINITELY have visitation, albeit structured to deal with the kids' needs and the protocols of what they are trying to teach them. Still so sad that she didn't come regularly and have his other siblings come regularly. So out of sight, out of mind. He didn't (and probably couldn't) "snap to it" like the other kids probably did at least marginally, so she put him there, didn't bother to maintain a working relationship with him, and he was there for YEARS during his formative years.
I'm sure he felt abandoned, yet honestly, this probably helped him being away from her. Sad she didn't even come to court to reassure him that it's okay that you're going to live with your dad. I'd like to have lunch or go to a movie with you, etc. You don't need to hire a lawyer to do that if you're just going to let it happen. But she couldn't just agree and show up. She did abandon her own kid, first to the institution by not visiting / participating and having his sibs do so during those difficult years for Collin, then by not communicating with Jon about where Collin was, and finally by not showing up to court to let Collin know it's okay if he wants to live with his dad . All around sad for the kids because of her personality disorder. She's going to get a rude awakening the older they get. Sorry so long!
@@lindaolsen7089 When it hits the kids that they are adults and can write a book and make millions, one or more of them will.
In the beginning everyone was on Kate’s side. Jon was a slacker and a cheater and Kate made sure to stoke the fire of those depictions of him. Jon kept quiet for years just keeping his head down and doing what he needed to do. The truth is finally coming out.
@@Seeker0fTruthNot me. I was never on Kate's side.
Right i don’t get how the person in this video is saying ppl felt sorry for her i never heard anyone feel bad for Kate
She didn't want a husband. She wanted a houseboy. She claims she's "too honest" but truly, she has no self-control and no filter. She spends all her time trying to control others, and zero time trying to practice any type of self-control.
I think she’s really a lesbian. She hates men.
well said!
the sly smirk that kate has while saying that jon doesn’t know where collin in. she had no intention to ever tell him and seems to be holding it over his head, yet even though she knew where he was she NEVER even visited her child while he was away! she’s disgusting and evil! the kids should sue TLC if need be
I just watched that. The kid is imprisoned and she thinks it's hilarious to keep him from his dad and siblings
As a mom of 5 kids there were so many times I wanted to yell at this woman that your kids and your husband are far more important than having a spotless house and having control over anything. I get it that when you have a large family chaos and mess can happen out of no where but thats life, and I would rather my kids and husband love me at the end of the day then go to bed with a clean home.
I just discovered this channel and I cannot BELIEVE I am so late to it. This is so high quality, so nuanced, so empathetic to the people involved. Kind of glad I am late tothe party as now I have so much to watch. Wishing you allthe success with this content it is so so good. Such a breath of fresh air to find popular culture commentary that is so thoughtful.
Welcome to my channel! Better late than never! I’m so glad you enjoy my content and I really appreciate the positive feedback!! Stay tuned for more videos soon!!
When he said that his family said , "We got the old Jon back." That rang so true for me. When my controlling husband and I divorced, after 13 years together, I didn't notice the change, but family and friends said the same thing to me. One of the most controlling things my husband ever complained to me was how I held a broom. Not that the house wasn't getting swept well, but I wasn't holding the broom correctly.
Jon was never controlling it was Kate and she have to it her way only.
omg the show clips stressed me out!!!! I'm surprised they made it as long as they did. A life that miserable is not worth staying stuck in.
Omg yes I was biting my nails putting this together, 😬😬
Fr their relationship gives ME anxiety just watching. I can’t imagine
@@betheecommentator thank you for your work! 😅
She was/is very toxic, she broke him down and tried to change him for years and then had the audacity to say HE had changed, and she didn't know who he was. She spent no time getting to know him, only time spent 'training him. Poor guy, poor kids.
Also when she said "the old Jon" I was thinking oh she means the old Jon who put up with her abuse and wouldn't stand up to her. Of course she doesn't like the new Jon who will fight back and stick up for himself and the kids.
My heart always broke for those kids. I grew up with an abusive controlling mother and I knew very early on these kids were going to be in for it. I knew her husband would get fed up at some point and I knew she would physically abused her kids. What I did not expect was for her to institutionalize one of them for not bowing to her Authority. People can stand to be in the same room with that woman is beyond me. God bless those kids and I hope they get away from her. I'm serious, 18 and run
Him leaving her was inevitable. She's horrible. She tore her own house down smh
That woman was emasculating, highly abusive, disrespectful, treated her husband like he was some servant, as well as dirty gum under her shoe! Then it's truly ridiculous how she was able to turn everything around on Jon and made him look like the VILLIAN, the BAD GUY, a CHEATER, how he abandoned the kids which caused the media to destroy him & villify him and defend her abuse of him! What about when it FINALLY came to light that she had been separated herself from him and told him basically not to show it so that tv audience wouldn't really know what was going on....She gaslit him, threw him under the bus and flat out LIED for the cameras!! And it was HER FAMILY that came out and told the TRUTH..... People beat up on Jon, believed the lies of Kate, what happened when some of the kids when even they didn't want to film anymore but she even refused that.......I CANNOT STAND HER, NEVER COULD
Don't forget about how she somehow managed to commit her son to a mental institution and then abandoned him there!
Agreed.
She was mad tabloids got wind of what happened because he was spotted at the bar, she wanted to keep playing happy families. A major reason for them breaking up was Jon had wanted to either end the show or step back a bit from it but Kate was wanting to keep filming. She loved the attention from it.
That book called? “How Kate Fooled the World” was true after all.
Omg the way Nancy grace spoke to Jon was so disgusting. I grew up watching this show and my mom and I really sided with Kate. I don’t agree with that anymore and I definitely think Kate is more to blame.
Yes, I genuinely felt bad for Jon. If she hadn’t cut him off he was trying to explain to her that he was connecting the dots and understanding his family dynamics re:alcoholism in his family and how he doesn’t want to repeat the pattern, which in essence would benefit his kids as he would and could be a better father but she just had to cut him off.
I don’t know much about Nancy Grace but geesh at least let him get his thoughts out and then respond.
“Stop arguing and fix your marriage”
If it was that simple no one would ever divorce 😐
Nancy Grace can be just as bad as Kate. When I first started watching her I liked her but it didn't take me long just like Kate to start seeing her rude better then now cocky attitude.
Kate does a great job at emasculating Jon then playing victim when he finally stands up for himself. God I can’t stand just listening to her nagging grating voice.
she sounds so much like ellen to me
Kate is a Classic Narcissist!
We do owe John a huge apology.
EXCELLENT series you did , thank you !
Nancy Grace owes Jon a big apology and needs to give Kate a big tongue lashing. I'm sorry, but i knew Kate was a narcissist, and she would hurt Jon badly. All Kate's legal and media narcissistic friends are still taking up for her after what she did to Collin and Hannah??? I DON'T THINK SO.. Kudos to Whoopi, Bethanney Frankel, Larry King, and the Judge's who enforced the law so Jon can stop his children from working and getting custody of the two he has. He made mistakes but found a person just right for him and his children, who loves them very much much.
I can't imagine Kate being a nurse. I have been a nurse for over 50 years, and Kate would be an absolute nightmare to work with!!! And just think how she must treat her patients?! Holy cow. I would never let her take care of me or any of my family, not even my cats.
Look at how she treated her own son Colin. She somehow managed to get him committed to a mental hospital and then abandoned him there!!
SHE CANT AFFOORD ALL OF THOSE KIDS ON NURSE SALARY.
Yeah let’s hear from these co workers!
Please! Highly OCD people make the best nurses!
@@LeneeLenee and prob the worst coworkers!!
The thing about a narcissist is that they live with the idea of who you should be in their mind and constantly compare the real you to this fictional perfect person. They don't want to know and will refuse to see who you really are, none of your hopes, dreams, or desires are valid. They are able to see all your faults though with laser focus no matter how minor. When Kate said she missed the old Jon she meant the fictional perfect one that she was constantly nagging him to be.
Get her Whoopie! Kate is always the victim and that’s the kind of manipulation the media has allowed her to get away with.
I agree, I loved how Whoopi challenged her with logic, perfect!
Whoopie is a terrible person! You don't a woman to smile more, not look like a bitch and it's okay bc you are also a woman. Reminded me of her "it's not rape rape" comment.
My mother is a narcissist (diagnosed when she went in for her "depression"). I remember her constant demeaning, disrespecting, disregarding, denigrating behavior towards our father & ourselves.
To the point that we all, including our father, stopped helping her. Which only made her feel more like a martyr.
Watching Kate, back when the show was airing made me physically ill. She turned my stomach. I loathed her then & I always figured that if Jon cheated he did it in a terrible misguided attempt to gain some sort of testicular fortitude.
Now I'm the mother of 8, 7 0n this side of heaven.
I've been homeschooling my 7 children for 13 years.
I never talk to my husband this way. I'm very orderly, I have everything labeled & everything has a place. At the same time, if I want the b.s optics for a show's episode, of having Six, 2-3 year olds & Two, 6-7 year olds, "carving" pumpkins then I'm gong to grow up & deal with the mess, until they fully done.
I know someone like Kate. She loves to take kids to really expensive places & do "really fun things". Except that then she rushes the kids through all the fun events, snapping pictures as she goes with the kids barely able to see or enjoy anything.
To the point, that I refuse to attend anything with her because I'm not paying a ton of money to take my children somewhere only to be hurried & not allowed to enjoy their time because someone only came out for the Facebook likes.
Kate reminds me of that woman. Doing things just for a TLC show. Not because she's interested in doing things for the kids' enjoyment.
"I still didn't meet her, but I was against her, it was mothers intuition". I can't believe this woman.
@@Ms777Lena Yep . She was manipulative and controlling through and through. I’m so happy he is free of her and it’s a shame he was publicly dragged for simply trying to get equal access and fair treatment.
Glad he’s finally free of that mess.
I was really impressed that Whoopi called bullshit on Kate regarding the babysitter incident.
She’s always been the wild card.
I had to stop at 51:58 because I almost had a break down. I’m married to a man who has narcissist personality disorder. I’m trying to “make my escape” by the end of this month so then my son and I can not be around his abusive tendency’s any more. I know exactly what Jon is feeling. My therapist says they people with NPD are great at wearing a mask and having everyone thinking they are a saint, but when the lights go down and it’s just you and them in a room and you are their prey they show you the true evil and disgusting person they are. Kate is a narcissist through and through. When Jon was on the ABC interview he was going through what all victims go through. You try to tell people how you have been treated and you have all of this built up anger from who the Narcissist is dragging your name through the mud. No one ever believes you and you end up looking crazy. It’s really a shock to your nervous system. When he talked about how she isolated him from everyone I started to tear up. My husband has done the same thing to me. The fog (as some victims) like to call it has finally lifted and when it lifted for Jon he probably realized that he was being abused. It’s hard for people who have never gone through something like this before to understand. And for Jon with him being a man and Kate being the woman it’s made it seem like he was just lazy and a child like man. He was abused. I feel for Jon. I pray and hope he finds himself after dealing with this traumatic event in his life.
Oh wow I am so sorry about the pain you’ve been going through! You are in my thoughts and prayers!! You can do it ❤️❤️
I had to skip through it, especially the Nancy bit wheres she just dragging him. What a pos
It's actually got a name, it's called reactive abuse. My dad would get me really upset then record me yelling at him. He tried to make me look crazy but he would grin from ear to ear when he got me enraged.
He knew exactly what he was doing. He did it to me all my life.
Narcissists are very sick people, they just refuse to see it. They think they're perfect. They won't go to therapy because there's nothing wrong with them. It's infuriating.
@@lorimiller4301 YES!! I was extremely emotional watching this but yes, he was going through reactive abuse. It was making me so upset that no one was listening to him and calling him selfish or that it was his fault.
❤
Kate acting clueless is baffling. Like girl you literally berated and abused Jon. Watching the show as a teen, I never liked Kate cuz she reminded me of my 3rd grade teacher. But seeing this as an adult, I'm disgusted by Kate and I understand why some of the kids chose to live with Jon instead. You could tell Jon felt trapped
I watched this is high school with my mom.. I remember her calling Kate out and saying he was going to leave her.. my mom always felt bad for him and never blamed him.. my mom is a great woman ❤
She literally belittles, and down grades her husband constantly. He just shuts down to avoid her going off on him for anything else.
He does everything she wants him to do but then complains how he does it because it’s not the way she wanted him to.
It’s was absolutely horrendous.
Jon, blink twice if you need help!!- That's all I could think while watching their show back in the day. He was no prize, but she was a MONSTER to deal with. Those poor children. OMG.
Saying you want to “strangle and shoot” your significant other/father of your children is concerning and unhinged.
and saying it while the kids were awake and present is so so terrible
Especially a man like that, he did a ton for her! Was so helpful on top of all those kids, work and abuse from her.
I watched this growing up and didn’t feel this way about Kate that I do now. I’m now a mom and just don’t understand her attitude. I get it, I get stressed too and have mini meltdowns but I learn from them which she doesn’t seem too. He’s a good day and playing and trying, just calm it down, I don’t know how you act that way and then not have guilt about ruining your kids time. Like she’s so frustratingly condescending
I agree, watching this years ago I had such a completely different take on it, now though as an adult I see things very differently.
Thank you so much for watching and sharing your thoughts with us
@ Nicky Wiedmeier
The reason you don't get it is because you're not a narcissist. The gold standard test to work out if you're a narcissist or not is if you're capable of actually asking yourself this question. A narcissist would NEVER ask themselves this because to do so would suggest there was something wrong with them and their paradigm of reality is that they are 100% perfect and that it's other people who are defective and the problem. Narcissism is a "water tight" ego defence mechanism. The person who has the disorder is incapable of "seeing" their anti-social behaviour because their psyche protects them from the truth of who they really are. A scared, angry and worthless young child who feels nothing but inner shame for themselves and rage at the world and suffers from extremely low self-esteem. A narcissist unconsciously harbours jealous feelings towards everyone in the world. Their disorder convinces them that other people are superior to them in every possible metric in existence. They have a preocupation with ideas of self love, beauty & vanity, ideal love and superiority. This is all that matters to them so from the minute they wake up they spend all their mental energy on identifying anyone who shows signs of surpassing them and proceeding to knock them off their "pedestal" so they can put themselves on it and stand out to everyone in an attempt to prove to themselves that they have any worth. A narcissist needs to abuse others as much as they need to breathe. Their abuse is a survival mechanism and without it they would "die". At least, that's what they tell themselves.
What strikes me is how Kate made Jon the scapegoat for her poor communication efforts. It was a no-win situation for him. Either he stayed out of her way to avoid her rage, or he is raged at for not reading her mind and steppung in. She says, "When I am stressing, YOU need to speak a certain way and say certain words." There is no acknowledgement that her feelings and reactions are out of proportion to the moment. There's no accountability for her behavior, just "stress". Everyone in that house is stressed, but she demands a level of self control and consideration from Jon that she is entirely unwilling to return towards him. She wants him to soothe her and then resents him for trying, and then for giving up when he realizes he doesn't matter.
Also, she said, "I don't care what he says, I never yelled like that." He then points to 3 occasions that are on camera that show, yes, she did yell like that. Then she changes the goal posts: "In recent days, have I done that?" That wasn't the statement! Classic abuse tactic, dangling reality just out of grasp. It's crazy-making.
I always saw her as the original Karen. The haircut,the attitude, when i think of a karen her picture pops up in my head
I'm literally cringing watching Kate's rude,overbearing and sarcastic treatment of poor John...I'm so very proud of him and the two children that did manage to get out from under Kate's iron fisted,cruel and harsh treatment...
I was wondering what the dynamics with the children would be now
Look at Whoopie making sense! She just goes along with the narrative nowadays. 😩😂 I’m glad she told her that!
I agree. I was surprised Whoopi was making such good points and calling out the mess.
Can't stand Whoopi either.
@@tashibalampkin8555 Loved it! Kate knew she violated the agreement.
@@PinkTaurus93Kate thought she was above the law because she was on a reality show
Yes!! This is def a time when I was glad Whoopie spoke sense. Kate tried to play the devoted mommy card, but while Dad has custody he is allowed a babysitter choice just like she is allowed same during her time. Jon wasn’t a perfect man, but he got dragged on multiple levels by Kate and TLC for just trying to find a reasonable way to co-parent in a failing marriage.
Kate always used the kids as a shield whenever she said or did something horrible. She was immune to criticism and having to show other people basic human respect because she needs to take care of her kids.
Anyone who works with the public has seen these moms. Everything crazy they do is because they’re stressed with the kids. 😩😂 It’s wild!!
It reminds me of large families who never show up on time then, say things like you wouldnt understand, when even bigger families can always be on time.
She only sees those kids as extensions of herself. She has no respect for them or anyone else.
Love when she is saying she doesn't want him to blame her , yet she sat and blamed him for her bad behavior, because he didn't help her in the situation. She's an adult and can choose to not act that way.
On a side note, Kate was sleeping with her "bodyguard" for the duration of the show's run and Jon never ONCE accused her of cheating on him in spite of all the abuse she hailed on him. Of course she repeatedly accused him of cheating on HER all the way to the bitter end to a point of practically framing him during the show's hiatus. That is the very definition of narcissistic personality disorder. She deserves levels of karma of biblical proportions.
Kate having to change her wording during a disagreement to be right is such a 🚩.
The media denying Jon’s side of the story and then the order silencing him for ten years is beyond wrong but not surprising with how misinformation spreads.
Yes and people like Kate bank on that. Unfortunately most uneducated people fall for that. Example the scrutiny Jon went through for a decade.
I watched this series when it first came out.....I remember telling my sister that they'd be divorced within the next 5yrs because every episode you could literally see the light in John's eyes slowly withering away from her constant harassment. IMO, Kate seemed like a Super mean, controlling, fun killing wife and mother....I felt So bad for how she slammed him in the tabloids, basically ruined his character and also damaged some of the relationship he had with some of his children.
I'm glad that people are finally starting to reexamine the whole situation and look more closely at the kind of person the media machine convinced almost everyone to believe, love and admire....
OMG...I remember watching this show and thinking, does she ever SEE herself?? She really needed HELP, but not from Jon, from a professional therapist!! The stress lever of just watching the show grated my nerves, and I couldn't imagine poor Jon dealing with this witch daily and trying to enjoy his children and just life!! And what she pulled with COLLIN literally made me sick to my stomach...all of it was ABUSIVE ON BOTH JON AND ALL THE KIDS...AND THE PUBLIC THAT WATCHED THIS DISASTER AS IT WAS HAPPENING AND DREADING THE NIGHTMARES TO COME...
Fantastic video, Be! Loved this! When Jon said the network (or whoever he mentioned) thought he was crazy for walking away from millions- it reminded me of Dave Chappelle and the awful things that were said about HIM when he walked away from money. It’s so refreshing to see there’s people like this on earth, who won’t sell their souls for money. More power to them 🙌🏼
I would like to point out something that I haven’t seen anyone point out. There were warning signs about Jon and I am actually really happy that Kate asked him to be separated because he was definitely a ticking time bomb. I am in no way saying he was going to hurt anyone but he was definitely primed to explode.
1. Even in Season 1, you could see clear signs of depression in Jon. I will give Kate the benefit of the doubt and say she could have been depressed as well but Jon was showing the signs of being massively depressed.
2. Him being stand-offish is a sign of someone who has had their opinions and help repeatedly pushed away. At that point, a person stands off because they don’t know what the other expects of them as well as not wanting to be the one to trigger yet another fight.
3. Weight gain. I will give the media this, when she fat shammed him they did not stand with her. The footage of him eating and her belittling him by mentioning how he wasn’t working out, boiled my blood. Again, it’s a sign of one who is depressed.
4. The dead inside look. I know this one all too well. I was told when I was under immense stress, mental strain, and massively depressed I looked dead inside. At the time, I was also being horribly verbally abused. Whenever you saw them on the couch and he just looked worn down, it was more than likely that when the cameras were off, it was 1000x worse.
I am in no way saying that Jon was a Saint, however, what I am saying is that the warning signs were most definitely there and it’s scary how millions of people could watch someone who was clearly in distress and… well ignore it.
By the time the show originally aired, I was already in my early 20s and just did not like Kate. I despised everything about her. During that time, I had a temper and could most definitely lash out, and I STILL could not fathom speaking to someone the way she spoke to him.
Note: It does my heart good however that people are now recognizing that Jon was horribly mistreated and I want everyone to be aware that he could have crapped silver and Kate would have told him to crap gold.
Your comment is such an amazing breakdown of what we saw. It’s worded so well and easy to follow. I completely agree with you on every point you made. The signs were definitely there. Even Kate said so herself that he aged a lot.
Kate lied , Kate was the ticking time bomb, not Jon
@@betheecommentator Thank you. I'm sad to say that I've been in Jon's shoes so I could see that he was suffering.
@@leileyaravencroftwell she is the ticking time bomb. I know very well narcissist abuse, as my mother did it to me. They are the one who explose in anger frustration and unleash violence. My mother did the same as Kate did. As soon as I wasnt of any use for her she created a story. She lied to the cops and justice trying to make me look like a violent person because I was only standing my ground against her abuse. She lied and played the story of the poor little fragile women being abused. Thats 100% the opposite but then its too late, she took control of the narrative and you end up looking like an insane person. And she already told others look he is insane and has insane reaction. Like the son Collin she put on a mental asylium for "special need" lmao he just need a decent mother and not a crazy bitch. Those people are acting like bomb they take their time, it usualy last for years and decades of abuse and the moment you cease to take it or stop reacting and feeding their need for anger and negative emotion they just end you and dispose of you like a trashbag. Lets put my kid in a asylum, lets put my kid in jail. Lets put my husband out of the show, out of the house and rush for the cameras and witnesses with a good story of abuse and you being a poor victim. Narcissist are no joke and it need to be studied because there are a growing number of cases for some reasons and justice, cops lawyers, doctors need to be aware of those manipulative ppl
This is just another example how manipulative media can be. We all knew Kate was rude & abusive to Jon. She was controlling & angry when the kids just tried to do normal kid things. It got hard to watch. The kids would have had a more relaxed life in a Marine bootcamp.
Yes, media manipulation is a huge issues
oh my god she STRESSES ME OUT. I cannot even fathom how Jon must have felt.
watching this after seeing their son Collin speak out on how kate institutionalized him at just 12 years old….TWELVE!!! he mentioned how she said on the show that hes away at a “camp for special needs”. he also mentioned how he was scared and did not like being there at all and sent letters to jon begging for help and to get him out of there. he hasn’t lived lived with her ever since then and jon gained custody over him and his twin sister. clearly shes the problem, just toxic and abusive!
That place needs a state investigation!
As someone who has experienced narcissistic abuse, I can't imagine what it must have felt to be in a relationship with a person like Kate. The argument at 19:00 is a classic case of someone choosing to bicker over tangential issues in an argument so as to evade accountability when confronted with evidence of a pattern of behaviour. I can't imagine 10 years of these kinds of deflections. It is incredible how quickly Kate adapted to the new reality of their impending divorce and immediately started working portray herself as the victim in the relationship.
It drives me literally UP THE WALL when abusive women like her are just allowed to continue to be that way, when if the roles were reversed, the wouldn’t be able to get her and all 43 of their kids out fast enough!!
OMG he looks so dead inside when she starts ranting in the couch interviews
she's lucky he didn't snap
YAY, so happy you got a sponsor!! You are doing so well and growing quickly, as you should!! Your content is TOP NOTCH and I've said that from the beginning. Fantastic video, as usual! :)
Aww thank you thank you, I’m trying 🤣🤣
You know I appreciate your continued support and I’m glad you enjoyed the video and my channel!! ❤️❤️
I watched this show when my now teenagers were very small and I just kept thinking bless that man and his patience with that woman. Kate was truly the first Karen.
Both of them resented each other SO heavy. They hated being near one another. I feel bad for both. They were so unhappy and a lot of it is because of her attitude. We watched their worst moments.