Dear Arthur, we have to believe in the genetic pre-disposition theory on "transness" OTHERWISE there is clear risks for trans-children. You are one of the few stable trans people who can engage in meaningful dialogue. You know who you are. Hopefully I can find time for something more detailed but the research is pretty clear. If we find the trans-child early and support them we can assist with the social transition and avoid the risks of self-harm that comes from growing ever more gender incongruent. The study to support this was published 13 July 2022 in Pediatrics, This study started with 319 children that had socially transitioned. At the start of the study the subjects were an average of eight years of age. They were younger when they initially socially transitioned; an average age of 6.5 years of age. The study, “Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition" found that: a child that socially transitions their gender has a 97.5% likelihood of remaining on the affirming care pathway that leads to transgender medicalization. Many subjects in this study have moved onto puberty blocking drugs and hormones. I think you know where this leads next. This avoids the awkwardness of growing up incongruent and it is premised on the idea that the child is pre-disposed to being transgender.
I'll never forget something a therapist said to me when I was in my early 20s and obsessively consumed with figuring out if I was a lesbian or not. I had this fear that there was something about me: some trauma or mental health issue or unsuccessful dating tactic or bad attitude that I could change and then be able to happily date men. And god bless my sweet bisexual therapist, who was so quiet and such a good listener and had never spoken to me this forcefully before, but she just looked at me and said, "Why do you care? If dating women makes you happy you're not obligated to "fix" that about yourself. That only matters if you think being straight is better than being gay. But it isn't better. Being gay isn't a problem that you need to try to fix at all costs. You can just do it if it makes you happy." And I immediately knew that she was right and it changed my perspective forever. I think the same is true for being trans and I'm glad you reminded me of it. Like ofc medical transition is a big decision and you want to do your best to consider what you're getting into and whether you might change your mind. But at the end of the day of it's something I want it doesn't matter why i want it. I'm not obligated to try every possible way to not want it, because it isn't a bad thing to want. It's just a thing I can do if I really want to do it. Also, ftr it turned out that there WAS something I could fix about myself and then happily date men, and that was realising that I was trans lol. But my attraction to women wasn't some pathological fiction of a deliriously traumatized brain, it was just because my trans ass had been bi the entire time. Sometimes the things you are so worried about seem really silly and irrelevant in retrospect. I expect that will be true of the worries I have about transition eventually, too.
Well in medicine it kinda matters why you want it if you are going to go into therapy (transition). Otherwise is like saying I don’t like my foot and I want to cut it, it doesn’t matter why and I’ll just do it because I want to
My brother came out as trans right after I did. My parents blame me for “turning” him trans. One of my close friends also transitioned after I did. My biggest fear is them regretting it because they were somehow influenced by me.
I have this same fear with two of my friends, mainly with one of them though. I think the most we can do is continue to support them and trust that they are making the decisions that are right for them, and maybe even bring up these fears with them. I did this with my friend, and we talked about it, which really helped me with these feelings of guilt and such that my existence somehow turned them into something they were not, or made them believe that. It's good to be open about these things or else they can turn into something that makes you harbour very negative beliefs about yourself and your effect on others.
i’m sorry you’re parents are like that and i understand why you have that fear, but your friend and brother are their own people and they know what’s best for themselves better than anyone, so you don’t have to worry about their regrets. it’s totally normal for other people to realize they’re trans after seeing another person transition because for a lot of us we didn’t even realize it was possible! you coming out may have made them put some dots together in their heads and realize that they are trans too, and that’s a beautiful thing 🩵🩷🤍
All I can do is quote Shadow and Bone, “Like calls to Like.” My mom recently told me my brother has said he wishes he was born a girl. I’m a trans guy. I JUST came out to my family and he doesn’t even know I’m trans yet. So it’s not my influence. It might just be that we’re both trans. Cause doesn’t matter. Us being happy and getting the support and care we need is.
Well, there's probably a social component in the sense that making the mistake of seeing Boys Don't Cry at age 17 prompted me to deny, deny, deny for a solid decade-plus afterwards, because when that's your only exposure to a transmasc person, who wants that to be how things turn out for you? The social contagion crowd seem desperate to ignore that side of the argument they're making, though.
It's sad but so much of my doubt as a trans teen (nearly 10 years ago now) really revolved around the "you just think you're trans because you read about it" commentary. I didn't know any trans people then and it was always made to seem as though it was SO rare and only happened to people who were really really sure-- spent maybe 5 years deeply questioning before I came out to anyone.
Yes same. I am a trans man who's body dysphoria started right after puberty started. Before puberty I didn't have dysphoria and it makes me feel that doubt since I see other trans men who felt dysphoria at 4.
I really resonate with you Arthur. I mulled over this question for years until finally going to see a gender therapist because I felt it was something I needed to get to the bottom to. Sadly I don’t really think there is a bottom, I just think it is. As many things just are. I feel that people can transition for a multitude of reasons, some working out and others not, for again, a multitude of reasons! There is no one answer, there is no one reason. Eventually I came to the realization with my therapist that asking why really wasn’t helping me move forward as a person and live in the world with a body i could call my own. Often times as queer people I think we’re looking for “evidence” - for proof that we are what we are and we can’t change it. It makes it easier on the people around us, makes them think we had no other choice. Truth is I don’t know if I have a choice or not, I suppose I do but really it would just be a choice between feeling stunted and moving forward. We should always choose to move forward.
I'm nonbinary and transfem, and I've thought about the deserted island thing before, and tbh, if I was living on one, I probably wouldn't desire to have an androgynous body, I wouldn't be nonbinary either - I also wouldn't be a man, because gender is social - if I were living on a deserted island, almost all of the aspects of my identity I have now, wouldn't exist - I want to medically transition because I want to be percieved as the gender I am, not because of some biological process, not because of a mental illness, but because in the world I live in, with gender being what it is, I would like to make changes to my body to communicate who I am (In relation to the world I live in).
The reason people talk about social contagion is that they don’t want people to mistakenly think they’re trans and undergo medical changes they regret.
@@whalium889 The real problem is that even kids are allowed to transition these days. How can a kid that isn't allowed to vote is expected to make an informed decision to transition, even without the permission from parents in certain countries?
That's a very thought provoking theory you got there. As a fellow Trans man I listened to you describe it with equal curiosity and I'm very proud of you for showing us it.
Honestly, Arthur, that's a great argument. Seems like acknowledging this possibility moves the debate to something a lot more substantial and relatable to all; the origins of desire. Cheers!
Many people aren't ready for the idea that our gender identities and bodies should be free for ourselves to determine, so in order to get them on board we have to present a medicalized idea of transness. IMO, no one needs a reason to be a man or a woman any more than they need a reason to be punk or goth. I honestly don't care if Tumblr or Reddit or whatever turned us trans. Once upon a time, it was considered natural to take up the family profession. Now it's okay to choose whatever profession you want, a choice which is obviously socially conditioned but valid nonetheless. Any role in society could be considered a social "contagion".
It's unhealthy. Physically unhealthy. It put more strain on a health system that is already at its limit, or raise the cost if insurances so less privileged people cannot afford it. You want to be free to do whatever you want with your body, find a way to pay for it yourself. I'm not even going to talk about things like the pain you put through your loved ones when you declare that your old self is no longer exist, accept the new me with the new name and new gender right away. Or the fact that until (if) you pass at least halfway through, people see you as the sex you are born with, and need to correct themselves in the head all the time and be careful not to say the pronouns fitting your sex, basically have to go on eggshells around you. And if are "non-binary", even worse. No, I'm just talking about the fact that it's unhealthy, therefore should be discouraged.
i'm glad you're making content on social media. lately i've been thinking about how youtube and tiktok and twitter and whatever all feels like it's on one big wheel. people reacting to people reacting to something created to distract people. but videos like yours don't feel like a distraction. i really appreciate even these little collected thoughts!
It intrigues me how badly as a society we want to explain transness. What happens if we find the cause? Are we trying to cure transness? When funny enough we have a treatment actually, but people want to solve trans people to into the root cisness they are "meant to be". If I do explain it, my answer is "I don't know why, but this is an immutable part of me that needs to live this way". Like I just feel like a man and I'm extremely uncomfortable with the idea of aging in an estrogen dominant body and being regarded as a woman. I don't know why, I gave it my all trying to like it and I just couldn't. Same as you, what I care about is that I'm happy. This makes me think about an analogy Abigail Throne made in her Identity video: its like you've been doing a job for so long, but it chips away at your soul. But you don't want to leave cause you've been doing it so long and you're good at it. But you know it'd be better for you and you'd be a lot happier if you left.
They did this with gayness too. Looking for a gay gene, a hormone imbalance during pregnancy, childhood trauma, anything to figure out why people are gay so they could stop it from happening.
Dude. We don't try to "solve trans people to into the root or cisness", whatever that means. We just say that the sex you are born with is immutable, so better to try to live with your body as it is, than take cross-sex hormones that put your body in a state of hormonal imbalance, or/and go through surgeries that are not medically necessary and are harmful. We say, exist in your body as it is. We don't try to change you. And you see, 20 years ago when nobody believed "trans women are women, trans men are men" and the that "non-binary" is a thing that exists, the numbers if trans people were very, very low, and it was mostly males. Now it's mostly teenage and young women, mostly on the autistic spectrum, and you must ask yourself how that makes sense. If gender identity is immutable then many middle aged females would start transition. But while there are cases like that, the vast majority of middle aged people who transition are males. And in any case, there are a lot more teens and young adults who identify as trans than older people, and you've got to ask yourself why that it. It doesn't add up. That, until you see it as it really is - a social contagion, a trend. Ashton says that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, what's matter is that she is happy now. But the thing is, she could have been just as happy as a woman. If there wasn't this trend, she would have never even thought of transition, and she would have lived happily as a woman. And she would have lived happily with a healthy body. This trend will end eventually, and you would be left, with a much less healthy body and in the case of females, with irreversible changes that would be left as a reminder of this horrifying trend.
@@saoirse2963 You go on and on about how dissuading people from transition is doing them a favour then deadname and misgender them at the same time. If gender is purely social then why does that come under this biological immutability? Or do you just find trans people repulsing because they throw out society's rules on what a person can be that you've never had to oppose?
Honestly I don't think there's a social contagion element like the media says. Mostly I think that trans people can relate to each other and gravitate towards one another, and confused closeted kids can more easily understand themselves if there's another trans person on their environment.
I grew up without any knowledge of anything transgender until recently in my late 20's. I always dressed masculine and I was called a tomboy but I never saw myself as a girl. I would watch videos on TH-cam on how to be a girl because I had no idea of how to even be that. Now that I know what being transgender is, I now understand myself better. It explains why I hated my body (still working on not hating my body one day at a time) and why I never could make friends with girls. I do not know any trans celebrities and growing up kids would ask "Do you live under a rock?" because I know very little about any celebrity, if I even know who they are at all. I am as devoid of social contagion as humanly possible in this century and I am a trans man so I think that theory is debunked.
It isn't debunked at all. Specific cases doesn't matter, you have to look at the whole picture. You might "live under a rock" but most people don't. Statistics don't lie. There is a huge increase in the numbers of people identifying as trans, and the rise occurs mostly in teenage girls and young women, mostly on the autistic spectrum. Ask yourself why that is. If gender identity is immutable then many middle aged females would start transition. But while there are cases like that, the vast majority of middle age people who transition are males. And in any case, there are a lot more teens and young adults who identify as trans than older people, and you got to ask yourself why that it. It doesn't add up. That, until you see it as it really is - a social contagion, a trend. I could make a case for you also - I think you are just a gender nonconforming woman, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because as I said, you don't like at one specific case, you look across the entire population.
@@saoirse2963 Individual cases DO matter because if being trans is only because of social contagion then a case where social contagion was not the cause of it proves that social contagion is not the cause of being trans. (There are historical examples of trans people in history as well BTW, I suggest you look that up.) You did not cite a source for your fact. What I found this; www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ Transgender individuals have a gender identity that differs from the sex they were assigned at birth.1 Research has shown that transgender individuals around the world and in the United States are exposed to widespread social stigma, discrimination, harassment, and physical and sexual abuse.2,3 Compared with the general population, a national survey conducted in the United States in 2008 found that transgender individuals were 4 times more likely to live in extreme poverty, had double the rate of unemployment, and had almost double the rate of being homeless.4 In terms of health, transgender individuals had 4 times the rate of being HIV-infected and 28% postponed medical care because of discrimination. Particularly alarming is that 41% of survey respondents reported at least 1 suicide attempt. A barrier to understanding social determinants and health disparities faced by transgender people is the under- or nonrepresentation in a range of demographic and health-monitoring activities,5 which may result from a lack of transgender-inclusive data collection with regard to gender identity. Not specifically about teenage girls, though if they were trans masc it would be teenage boys. Why would anyone choose to live trans knowing these statistics? I do, and I will tell you why. It is the same reason I choose to be Roman Catholic, I do not care if I die trying to be the person that God made me to be. I only live to learn myself so that I can know Him better. It wasn't easy for the early church martyrs. Not comparing myself to those saints but I am just saying that I am who God made me to be and if I must bleed like Him to do so, then that is my pride.
@@saoirse2963 Individual cases DO matter because if being trans is only because of social contagion then a case where social contagion was not the cause of it proves that social contagion is not the cause of being trans. (There are historical examples of trans people in history as well BTW, I suggest you look that up.) You did not cite a source for your fact. I found this; www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ Research has shown that transgender individuals around the world and in the United States are exposed to widespread social stigma, discrimination, harassment, and physical and sexual abuse.2,3 Compared with the general population, a national survey conducted in the United States in 2008 found that transgender individuals were 4 times more likely to live in extreme poverty, had double the rate of unemployment, and had almost double the rate of being homeless.4 In terms of health, transgender individuals had 4 times the rate of being HIV-infected and 28% postponed medical care because of discrimination. Particularly alarming is that 41% of survey respondents reported at least 1 suicide attempt. Not specifically about teenage girls, though if they were trans masc it would be teenage boys. Why would anyone choose to live trans knowing these statistics? I do, and I will tell you why. It is the same reason I choose to be Roman Catholic, I do not care if I die trying to be the person that God made me to be. I only live to learn myself so that I can know Him better. It wasn't easy for the early church martyrs. Not comparing myself to those saints but I am just saying that I am who God made me to be and if I must bleed like Him to do so, then that is my pride. I also got this from the same website Our estimate of 0.39% is not quite as high as the 1% that was posited on the basis of a qualitative review of international studies.51 However, this high number was supported by new data from a Dutch population sample aged 15 to 70 years, which found that 1.1% of men and 0.8% of women experienced a gender identity incongruent with their sex assigned at birth. You are right it is mostly women. Trans woman. As for trans men, that would be the minority according to the facts I found. Please cite yours so we can discuss.
@@saoirse2963 (My response it too long so I am dividing it into 2) Individual cases DO matter because if being trans is only because of social contagion then a case where social contagion was not the cause of it proves that social contagion is not the cause of being trans. (There are historical examples of trans people in history as well BTW, I suggest you look that up.) You did not cite a source for your fact. I found this; www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ Research has shown that transgender individuals around the world and in the United States are exposed to widespread social stigma, discrimination, harassment, and physical and sexual abuse.2,3 Compared with the general population, a national survey conducted in the United States in 2008 found that transgender individuals were 4 times more likely to live in extreme poverty, had double the rate of unemployment, and had almost double the rate of being homeless.4 In terms of health, transgender individuals had 4 times the rate of being HIV-infected and 28% postponed medical care because of discrimination. Particularly alarming is that 41% of survey respondents reported at least 1 suicide attempt.
@@saoirse2963 (My response it too long so I am dividing it into 2) Individual cases DO matter because if being trans is only because of social contagion then a case where social contagion was not the cause of it proves that social contagion is not the cause of being trans. (There are historical examples of trans people in history as well BTW, I suggest you look that up.) You did not cite a source for your fact. I found this; www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/ Research has shown that transgender individuals around the world and in the United States are exposed to widespread social stigma, discrimination, harassment, and physical and sexual abuse.2,3 Compared with the general population, a national survey conducted in the United States in 2008 found that transgender individuals were 4 times more likely to live in extreme poverty, had double the rate of unemployment, and had almost double the rate of being homeless.4 In terms of health, transgender individuals had 4 times the rate of being HIV-infected and 28% postponed medical care because of discrimination. Particularly alarming is that 41% of survey respondents reported at least 1 s attempt.
Your videos are awesome. They are very original and thought provoking. I see a lot of the same videos being made about trans subjects, but every time I click on one of yours, I am presented with something fresh and interesting. Sometimes they even change my opinions on things I have spent significant portions of my time forming my views on and researching. I can see your content already starting to inspire the way I want to make mine. Keep it up bro!
Thank you so much for your videos Arthur! Your way of looking at life is so right and wise, and hearing your thoughts always makes me feel so much better and hopeful!
if im only trans because i saw other trans people, im still glad im trans. i could have lived the rest of my life as a woman, but ultimately im happier as a man. even if all those concerned parents and conservative legislators were right and people only transition because of other trans people, theres still that contingent of cis people who encounter trans people every day and still live as their assigned gender. there are still people who experiment with their clothes and expression and pronouns and ultimately come out on the other side content being cis. if transness is a social contagion, its a pretty lousy virus, because it still only affects 1% of people.
i agree with you but i dont think youre answering the other side's question/concern.. you're kinda addressing only half of the issue because you're answering as a person for whom transition turned out to be a positive. the other side, though, usually raises this idea in relation to those for whom transition wasnt an overall positive. not a hater or a transphobe, just giving in my observation..
Totally! My point is mostly that it makes sense that both the costs and benefits of transition might be influenced by society. Not that transition should be taken lightly!
This video doesn't resonate with me because I'm severely unhappy. HRT didn't strongly help my dysphoria and I feel worse than ever. If there was a way to change my environment to where I'd be happy being a woman then I'd want to do that because it would make me happier. I understand I'm being cynical, and I usually like your content, but let's not pretend that the question of whether dysphoria is environmentally caused doesn't matter. It matters not only to transphobes but to trans people as we decide how to treat our dysphoria.
Why do you feel worse then ever? Maybe medical transition is not the right choice for you? Maybe there are other factors involved in your unhappiness. I’ve always been one to encourage a therapeutic approach to dysphoria as well as a medical one if necessary or desired.
@@francisp2131 I feel worse than ever because after being on HRT all I realize now is that my body will never be truly male. I will never have the male experiences that I want. This is coupled with ruining my relationship with my family members and the legal and work difficulties that come with being trans. I don't regret starting HRT because I'd been trying to find alternative ways of dealing with dysphoria for ten years and it didn't work. Even if I detransition this was something I needed to try. If there was a way I could be a cis woman though I'd take it in a heartbeat. Saying "it doesn't matter if it's social contagion or not" isn't correct when it's extremely important for people making decisions.
i guess even if it was a social contagion, would the solution be to then solve it? and what method would one go about doing that. Or would the solution be to continue finding ways to cope or eventually disolve distress, not that that is ever easy. Is your idea that if transness(maybe you're more concerned with dysphoria) was purely biolgoical, then there can be a discrete end to your suffering by somehow accomodating that (say surgery of the "trans" brain, or taking meds). But sometimes things of biological origin might not be solvable in a practical or methodical way, and it just kinda exists. transitioning making disphoria worse because it makes one feel an seemingly impossible gap between how they want to be vs where they are is definitely something many experience. One direction might be to change your standards, or examine what is it that you actually realistically need to feel satisfied in yourself. best of luck with finding something that helps@@alicesenz6374
@@alix6553 If transness were caused by social contagion, then it stands to reason that the individual would stop experiencing dysphoria when they left trans spaces. That's why transphobic people make the argument, to justify taking trans children away from their community. I do think that the way dysphoria manifests can be influenced by environment, but that transness itself comes from inherent psychological/biological disposition.
@@alicesenz6374 i see. so i guess one line of reasoning justify a form of conversion therapy by quarantining people from trans thought or something. though that specific argument is pretty illogical. but it’s interesting because gender and gender standards are definitely contagious (in a neutral sense).
Ok off topic, i wanna eat your gender. anyways i've never really thought of why im trans or anything i just kinda go with it i dont even think about it most days
made this video for tiktok (follow me! @arthur_rockwell ) but I figured I'd post it here too :)
Dear Arthur, we have to believe in the genetic pre-disposition theory on "transness" OTHERWISE there is clear risks for trans-children. You are one of the few stable trans people who can engage in meaningful dialogue. You know who you are.
Hopefully I can find time for something more detailed but the research is pretty clear. If we find the trans-child early and support them we can assist with the social transition and avoid the risks of self-harm that comes from growing ever more gender incongruent. The study to support this was published 13 July 2022 in Pediatrics, This study started with 319 children that had socially transitioned. At the start of the study the subjects were an average of eight years of age. They were younger when they initially socially transitioned; an average age of 6.5 years of age. The study, “Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition" found that: a child that socially transitions their gender has a 97.5% likelihood of remaining on the affirming care pathway that leads to transgender medicalization. Many subjects in this study have moved onto puberty blocking drugs and hormones. I think you know where this leads next. This avoids the awkwardness of growing up incongruent and it is premised on the idea that the child is pre-disposed to being transgender.
I'll never forget something a therapist said to me when I was in my early 20s and obsessively consumed with figuring out if I was a lesbian or not. I had this fear that there was something about me: some trauma or mental health issue or unsuccessful dating tactic or bad attitude that I could change and then be able to happily date men. And god bless my sweet bisexual therapist, who was so quiet and such a good listener and had never spoken to me this forcefully before, but she just looked at me and said, "Why do you care? If dating women makes you happy you're not obligated to "fix" that about yourself. That only matters if you think being straight is better than being gay. But it isn't better. Being gay isn't a problem that you need to try to fix at all costs. You can just do it if it makes you happy." And I immediately knew that she was right and it changed my perspective forever.
I think the same is true for being trans and I'm glad you reminded me of it. Like ofc medical transition is a big decision and you want to do your best to consider what you're getting into and whether you might change your mind. But at the end of the day of it's something I want it doesn't matter why i want it. I'm not obligated to try every possible way to not want it, because it isn't a bad thing to want. It's just a thing I can do if I really want to do it.
Also, ftr it turned out that there WAS something I could fix about myself and then happily date men, and that was realising that I was trans lol. But my attraction to women wasn't some pathological fiction of a deliriously traumatized brain, it was just because my trans ass had been bi the entire time. Sometimes the things you are so worried about seem really silly and irrelevant in retrospect. I expect that will be true of the worries I have about transition eventually, too.
Well in medicine it kinda matters why you want it if you are going to go into therapy (transition). Otherwise is like saying I don’t like my foot and I want to cut it, it doesn’t matter why and I’ll just do it because I want to
My brother came out as trans right after I did. My parents blame me for “turning” him trans. One of my close friends also transitioned after I did. My biggest fear is them regretting it because they were somehow influenced by me.
I have this same fear with two of my friends, mainly with one of them though. I think the most we can do is continue to support them and trust that they are making the decisions that are right for them, and maybe even bring up these fears with them. I did this with my friend, and we talked about it, which really helped me with these feelings of guilt and such that my existence somehow turned them into something they were not, or made them believe that. It's good to be open about these things or else they can turn into something that makes you harbour very negative beliefs about yourself and your effect on others.
i’m sorry you’re parents are like that and i understand why you have that fear, but your friend and brother are their own people and they know what’s best for themselves better than anyone, so you don’t have to worry about their regrets. it’s totally normal for other people to realize they’re trans after seeing another person transition because for a lot of us we didn’t even realize it was possible! you coming out may have made them put some dots together in their heads and realize that they are trans too, and that’s a beautiful thing 🩵🩷🤍
All I can do is quote Shadow and Bone, “Like calls to Like.”
My mom recently told me my brother has said he wishes he was born a girl. I’m a trans guy. I JUST came out to my family and he doesn’t even know I’m trans yet. So it’s not my influence. It might just be that we’re both trans. Cause doesn’t matter. Us being happy and getting the support and care we need is.
maybe you just set a positive example for them that made them feel more comfortable coming out for who they are :)
Just remember there are also strong genetic components to everything including diversity.
I think many people with a uterus would say they don’t want that if they’re on a deserted island! I certainly wouldn’t want to deal with that 😂
Ahaha right??
Arthur always spitting facts
😎😎😎
Well, there's probably a social component in the sense that making the mistake of seeing Boys Don't Cry at age 17 prompted me to deny, deny, deny for a solid decade-plus afterwards, because when that's your only exposure to a transmasc person, who wants that to be how things turn out for you? The social contagion crowd seem desperate to ignore that side of the argument they're making, though.
It's sad but so much of my doubt as a trans teen (nearly 10 years ago now) really revolved around the "you just think you're trans because you read about it" commentary. I didn't know any trans people then and it was always made to seem as though it was SO rare and only happened to people who were really really sure-- spent maybe 5 years deeply questioning before I came out to anyone.
Thank you so much for this! ❤ I needed this as a trans girl who still struggles with imposter syndrome and the like.
Same here, as a trans man!
Yes same. I am a trans man who's body dysphoria started right after puberty started. Before puberty I didn't have dysphoria and it makes me feel that doubt since I see other trans men who felt dysphoria at 4.
I really resonate with you Arthur. I mulled over this question for years until finally going to see a gender therapist because I felt it was something I needed to get to the bottom to. Sadly I don’t really think there is a bottom, I just think it is. As many things just are. I feel that people can transition for a multitude of reasons, some working out and others not, for again, a multitude of reasons! There is no one answer, there is no one reason. Eventually I came to the realization with my therapist that asking why really wasn’t helping me move forward as a person and live in the world with a body i could call my own. Often times as queer people I think we’re looking for “evidence” - for proof that we are what we are and we can’t change it. It makes it easier on the people around us, makes them think we had no other choice. Truth is I don’t know if I have a choice or not, I suppose I do but really it would just be a choice between feeling stunted and moving forward. We should always choose to move forward.
I'm nonbinary and transfem, and I've thought about the deserted island thing before, and tbh, if I was living on one, I probably wouldn't desire to have an androgynous body, I wouldn't be nonbinary either - I also wouldn't be a man, because gender is social - if I were living on a deserted island, almost all of the aspects of my identity I have now, wouldn't exist - I want to medically transition because I want to be percieved as the gender I am, not because of some biological process, not because of a mental illness, but because in the world I live in, with gender being what it is, I would like to make changes to my body to communicate who I am (In relation to the world I live in).
The reason people talk about social contagion is that they don’t want people to mistakenly think they’re trans and undergo medical changes they regret.
The best way to combat this is to talk about the pros and cons and the actual realities of transition so people can make informed decisions.
@@whalium889 The real problem is that even kids are allowed to transition these days. How can a kid that isn't allowed to vote is expected to make an informed decision to transition, even without the permission from parents in certain countries?
That's a very thought provoking theory you got there. As a fellow Trans man I listened to you describe it with equal curiosity and I'm very proud of you for showing us it.
Honestly, Arthur, that's a great argument. Seems like acknowledging this possibility moves the debate to something a lot more substantial and relatable to all; the origins of desire. Cheers!
Many people aren't ready for the idea that our gender identities and bodies should be free for ourselves to determine, so in order to get them on board we have to present a medicalized idea of transness. IMO, no one needs a reason to be a man or a woman any more than they need a reason to be punk or goth. I honestly don't care if Tumblr or Reddit or whatever turned us trans. Once upon a time, it was considered natural to take up the family profession. Now it's okay to choose whatever profession you want, a choice which is obviously socially conditioned but valid nonetheless. Any role in society could be considered a social "contagion".
yeah saying contagion instead of influence just makes it sound so bad
It's unhealthy. Physically unhealthy. It put more strain on a health system that is already at its limit, or raise the cost if insurances so less privileged people cannot afford it. You want to be free to do whatever you want with your body, find a way to pay for it yourself. I'm not even going to talk about things like the pain you put through your loved ones when you declare that your old self is no longer exist, accept the new me with the new name and new gender right away. Or the fact that until (if) you pass at least halfway through, people see you as the sex you are born with, and need to correct themselves in the head all the time and be careful not to say the pronouns fitting your sex, basically have to go on eggshells around you. And if are "non-binary", even worse. No, I'm just talking about the fact that it's unhealthy, therefore should be discouraged.
I feel like a lot of us would have no thoughts about bodies our bodies on a deserted island. We would just want to survive
i'm glad you're making content on social media. lately i've been thinking about how youtube and tiktok and twitter and whatever all feels like it's on one big wheel. people reacting to people reacting to something created to distract people. but videos like yours don't feel like a distraction. i really appreciate even these little collected thoughts!
It intrigues me how badly as a society we want to explain transness. What happens if we find the cause? Are we trying to cure transness? When funny enough we have a treatment actually, but people want to solve trans people to into the root cisness they are "meant to be". If I do explain it, my answer is "I don't know why, but this is an immutable part of me that needs to live this way". Like I just feel like a man and I'm extremely uncomfortable with the idea of aging in an estrogen dominant body and being regarded as a woman. I don't know why, I gave it my all trying to like it and I just couldn't. Same as you, what I care about is that I'm happy. This makes me think about an analogy Abigail Throne made in her Identity video: its like you've been doing a job for so long, but it chips away at your soul. But you don't want to leave cause you've been doing it so long and you're good at it. But you know it'd be better for you and you'd be a lot happier if you left.
They did this with gayness too. Looking for a gay gene, a hormone imbalance during pregnancy, childhood trauma, anything to figure out why people are gay so they could stop it from happening.
Excellent. Describes my thoughts perfectly.
Dude. We don't try to "solve trans people to into the root or cisness", whatever that means. We just say that the sex you are born with is immutable, so better to try to live with your body as it is, than take cross-sex hormones that put your body in a state of hormonal imbalance, or/and go through surgeries that are not medically necessary and are harmful. We say, exist in your body as it is. We don't try to change you.
And you see, 20 years ago when nobody believed "trans women are women, trans men are men" and the that "non-binary" is a thing that exists, the numbers if trans people were very, very low, and it was mostly males. Now it's mostly teenage and young women, mostly on the autistic spectrum, and you must ask yourself how that makes sense. If gender identity is immutable then many middle aged females would start transition. But while there are cases like that, the vast majority of middle aged people who transition are males. And in any case, there are a lot more teens and young adults who identify as trans than older people, and you've got to ask yourself why that it. It doesn't add up. That, until you see it as it really is - a social contagion, a trend.
Ashton says that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, what's matter is that she is happy now. But the thing is, she could have been just as happy as a woman. If there wasn't this trend, she would have never even thought of transition, and she would have lived happily as a woman. And she would have lived happily with a healthy body. This trend will end eventually, and you would be left, with a much less healthy body and in the case of females, with irreversible changes that would be left as a reminder of this horrifying trend.
@@saoirse2963 You go on and on about how dissuading people from transition is doing them a favour then deadname and misgender them at the same time. If gender is purely social then why does that come under this biological immutability? Or do you just find trans people repulsing because they throw out society's rules on what a person can be that you've never had to oppose?
Honestly I don't think there's a social contagion element like the media says.
Mostly I think that trans people can relate to each other and gravitate towards one another, and confused closeted kids can more easily understand themselves if there's another trans person on their environment.
I grew up without any knowledge of anything transgender until recently in my late 20's. I always dressed masculine and I was called a tomboy but I never saw myself as a girl. I would watch videos on TH-cam on how to be a girl because I had no idea of how to even be that. Now that I know what being transgender is, I now understand myself better. It explains why I hated my body (still working on not hating my body one day at a time) and why I never could make friends with girls. I do not know any trans celebrities and growing up kids would ask "Do you live under a rock?" because I know very little about any celebrity, if I even know who they are at all. I am as devoid of social contagion as humanly possible in this century and I am a trans man so I think that theory is debunked.
It isn't debunked at all. Specific cases doesn't matter, you have to look at the whole picture. You might "live under a rock" but most people don't. Statistics don't lie. There is a huge increase in the numbers of people identifying as trans, and the rise occurs mostly in teenage girls and young women, mostly on the autistic spectrum. Ask yourself why that is.
If gender identity is immutable then many middle aged females would start transition. But while there are cases like that, the vast majority of middle age people who transition are males. And in any case, there are a lot more teens and young adults who identify as trans than older people, and you got to ask yourself why that it. It doesn't add up. That, until you see it as it really is - a social contagion, a trend.
I could make a case for you also - I think you are just a gender nonconforming woman, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter because as I said, you don't like at one specific case, you look across the entire population.
@@saoirse2963 Individual cases DO matter because if being trans is only because of social contagion then a case where social contagion was not the cause of it proves that social contagion is not the cause of being trans. (There are historical examples of trans people in history as well BTW, I suggest you look that up.) You did not cite a source for your fact. What I found this;
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/
Transgender individuals have a gender identity that differs from the sex they were assigned at birth.1 Research has shown that transgender individuals around the world and in the United States are exposed to widespread social stigma, discrimination, harassment, and physical and sexual abuse.2,3 Compared with the general population, a national survey conducted in the United States in 2008 found that transgender individuals were 4 times more likely to live in extreme poverty, had double the rate of unemployment, and had almost double the rate of being homeless.4 In terms of health, transgender individuals had 4 times the rate of being HIV-infected and 28% postponed medical care because of discrimination. Particularly alarming is that 41% of survey respondents reported at least 1 suicide attempt. A barrier to understanding social determinants and health disparities faced by transgender people is the under- or nonrepresentation in a range of demographic and health-monitoring activities,5 which may result from a lack of transgender-inclusive data collection with regard to gender identity.
Not specifically about teenage girls, though if they were trans masc it would be teenage boys. Why would anyone choose to live trans knowing these statistics? I do, and I will tell you why. It is the same reason I choose to be Roman Catholic, I do not care if I die trying to be the person that God made me to be. I only live to learn myself so that I can know Him better. It wasn't easy for the early church martyrs. Not comparing myself to those saints but I am just saying that I am who God made me to be and if I must bleed like Him to do so, then that is my pride.
@@saoirse2963 Individual cases DO matter because if being trans is only because of social contagion then a case where social contagion was not the cause of it proves that social contagion is not the cause of being trans. (There are historical examples of trans people in history as well BTW, I suggest you look that up.) You did not cite a source for your fact. I found this;
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/
Research has shown that transgender individuals around the world and in the United States are exposed to widespread social stigma, discrimination, harassment, and physical and sexual abuse.2,3 Compared with the general population, a national survey conducted in the United States in 2008 found that transgender individuals were 4 times more likely to live in extreme poverty, had double the rate of unemployment, and had almost double the rate of being homeless.4 In terms of health, transgender individuals had 4 times the rate of being HIV-infected and 28% postponed medical care because of discrimination. Particularly alarming is that 41% of survey respondents reported at least 1 suicide attempt.
Not specifically about teenage girls, though if they were trans masc it would be teenage boys. Why would anyone choose to live trans knowing these statistics? I do, and I will tell you why. It is the same reason I choose to be Roman Catholic, I do not care if I die trying to be the person that God made me to be. I only live to learn myself so that I can know Him better. It wasn't easy for the early church martyrs. Not comparing myself to those saints but I am just saying that I am who God made me to be and if I must bleed like Him to do so, then that is my pride. I also got this from the same website
Our estimate of 0.39% is not quite as high as the 1% that was posited on the basis of a qualitative review of international studies.51 However, this high number was supported by new data from a Dutch population sample aged 15 to 70 years, which found that 1.1% of men and 0.8% of women experienced a gender identity incongruent with their sex assigned at birth.
You are right it is mostly women. Trans woman. As for trans men, that would be the minority according to the facts I found. Please cite yours so we can discuss.
@@saoirse2963 (My response it too long so I am dividing it into 2) Individual cases DO matter because if being trans is only because of social contagion then a case where social contagion was not the cause of it proves that social contagion is not the cause of being trans. (There are historical examples of trans people in history as well BTW, I suggest you look that up.) You did not cite a source for your fact. I found this;
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/
Research has shown that transgender individuals around the world and in the United States are exposed to widespread social stigma, discrimination, harassment, and physical and sexual abuse.2,3 Compared with the general population, a national survey conducted in the United States in 2008 found that transgender individuals were 4 times more likely to live in extreme poverty, had double the rate of unemployment, and had almost double the rate of being homeless.4 In terms of health, transgender individuals had 4 times the rate of being HIV-infected and 28% postponed medical care because of discrimination. Particularly alarming is that 41% of survey respondents reported at least 1 suicide attempt.
@@saoirse2963 (My response it too long so I am dividing it into 2) Individual cases DO matter because if being trans is only because of social contagion then a case where social contagion was not the cause of it proves that social contagion is not the cause of being trans. (There are historical examples of trans people in history as well BTW, I suggest you look that up.) You did not cite a source for your fact. I found this;
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/
Research has shown that transgender individuals around the world and in the United States are exposed to widespread social stigma, discrimination, harassment, and physical and sexual abuse.2,3 Compared with the general population, a national survey conducted in the United States in 2008 found that transgender individuals were 4 times more likely to live in extreme poverty, had double the rate of unemployment, and had almost double the rate of being homeless.4 In terms of health, transgender individuals had 4 times the rate of being HIV-infected and 28% postponed medical care because of discrimination. Particularly alarming is that 41% of survey respondents reported at least 1 s attempt.
Your videos are awesome. They are very original and thought provoking. I see a lot of the same videos being made about trans subjects, but every time I click on one of yours, I am presented with something fresh and interesting. Sometimes they even change my opinions on things I have spent significant portions of my time forming my views on and researching. I can see your content already starting to inspire the way I want to make mine. Keep it up bro!
Thank you so much for your videos Arthur! Your way of looking at life is so right and wise, and hearing your thoughts always makes me feel so much better and hopeful!
I can't express how much I love this man
Love the video, but I can't help it, you looking good
where did you get your sweater from!
Gap!
if im only trans because i saw other trans people, im still glad im trans. i could have lived the rest of my life as a woman, but ultimately im happier as a man. even if all those concerned parents and conservative legislators were right and people only transition because of other trans people, theres still that contingent of cis people who encounter trans people every day and still live as their assigned gender. there are still people who experiment with their clothes and expression and pronouns and ultimately come out on the other side content being cis. if transness is a social contagion, its a pretty lousy virus, because it still only affects 1% of people.
Excellent!
I love this outlook
i agree with you but i dont think youre answering the other side's question/concern.. you're kinda addressing only half of the issue because you're answering as a person for whom transition turned out to be a positive. the other side, though, usually raises this idea in relation to those for whom transition wasnt an overall positive.
not a hater or a transphobe, just giving in my observation..
I mean the underlying question is: What if there's an easier way to be happy than going through the expensive and grueling process of transition?
Totally! My point is mostly that it makes sense that both the costs and benefits of transition might be influenced by society. Not that transition should be taken lightly!
Because there are risks involved.
Hi how are you and your partner to and i wish the both of you a very happy Thanksgiving and your family's to by robert
Thanks Robert!
This video doesn't resonate with me because I'm severely unhappy. HRT didn't strongly help my dysphoria and I feel worse than ever. If there was a way to change my environment to where I'd be happy being a woman then I'd want to do that because it would make me happier.
I understand I'm being cynical, and I usually like your content, but let's not pretend that the question of whether dysphoria is environmentally caused doesn't matter. It matters not only to transphobes but to trans people as we decide how to treat our dysphoria.
Why do you feel worse then ever? Maybe medical transition is not the right choice for you? Maybe there are other factors involved in your unhappiness. I’ve always been one to encourage a therapeutic approach to dysphoria as well as a medical one if necessary or desired.
@@francisp2131 I feel worse than ever because after being on HRT all I realize now is that my body will never be truly male. I will never have the male experiences that I want. This is coupled with ruining my relationship with my family members and the legal and work difficulties that come with being trans.
I don't regret starting HRT because I'd been trying to find alternative ways of dealing with dysphoria for ten years and it didn't work. Even if I detransition this was something I needed to try.
If there was a way I could be a cis woman though I'd take it in a heartbeat. Saying "it doesn't matter if it's social contagion or not" isn't correct when it's extremely important for people making decisions.
i guess even if it was a social contagion, would the solution be to then solve it? and what method would one go about doing that. Or would the solution be to continue finding ways to cope or eventually disolve distress, not that that is ever easy. Is your idea that if transness(maybe you're more concerned with dysphoria) was purely biolgoical, then there can be a discrete end to your suffering by somehow accomodating that (say surgery of the "trans" brain, or taking meds). But sometimes things of biological origin might not be solvable in a practical or methodical way, and it just kinda exists.
transitioning making disphoria worse because it makes one feel an seemingly impossible gap between how they want to be vs where they are is definitely something many experience. One direction might be to change your standards, or examine what is it that you actually realistically need to feel satisfied in yourself.
best of luck with finding something that helps@@alicesenz6374
@@alix6553 If transness were caused by social contagion, then it stands to reason that the individual would stop experiencing dysphoria when they left trans spaces. That's why transphobic people make the argument, to justify taking trans children away from their community.
I do think that the way dysphoria manifests can be influenced by environment, but that transness itself comes from inherent psychological/biological disposition.
@@alicesenz6374 i see. so i guess one line of reasoning justify a form of conversion therapy by quarantining people from trans thought or something. though that specific argument is pretty illogical.
but it’s interesting because gender and gender standards are definitely contagious (in a neutral sense).
❤
If the social contagion theories re right then I am an idiot.
They are most likely correct - a random atheist.
like this
Ok off topic, i wanna eat your gender. anyways i've never really thought of why im trans or anything i just kinda go with it i dont even think about it most days