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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ย. 2022
- The Karoo2 is an awesome GPS device, but not without some quirks.
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I like the review, and mostly agree, however I am now happy with mine.
I was in the same position. I used a new Karoo2 on a multi- country tour (10) in Africa. The battery life improved mostly for me by turning on the rain ' screen lock '. And using the side buttons to move screens. In the countryside, I would also often turn off the screen, so I could look up and enjoy the views.
I also used my phone Google maps, but I would turn off the active navigation and track the route lines (saves battery). I also used Osmand. The karoo device surprisingly directly navigated to my hotel a few times (it will search within 50 miles or 100) - whilst on wifi with phone data.
Hey Russ, you should do a little mini tour or something on how to RetroGrouch with a paper map, and the drawbacks that lead you to using digital, and what settings a paper map might make more sense?
Thanks for the great video!
Ive had the K2 for over 18 months and its brilliant, never had an issue with battery life on 100 mile all day rides, navigation is mostly great off and off road, a few small issues here and there but nothing at all serious. Uploading routes could be easier but its not a ball ache. I like the bi weekly updates and the fact that HH listen to their customers feedback. Good video, a few niggles but nothing to worry about compared to the other options, my bolt was shocking at maps/routing so the K2 was a blessing when i got it.
I have the K2 for over 18 months as well. And... well:
- the mount "puk bracket" broke twice!
- the elevation measures are consistently off by 15-20%
- it went from super smooth to rather laggy
- all the metric indicators are either ugly numbers, either ugly plots. Where are the fancy widgets to make proper use of this "smartphone like screen"? Some ride for fun... I'd like to turn my my screen into some game-like UI
On the plus side, the GPS is fast and accurate and the software support is there, not always for the better, but it's there.
Interesting and thoughtful review. Having had a Edge Touring Plus, then a Wahoo ELEMNT and now have both an Edge 530 and a Karoo 2. I am more of a touring rider, so mapping and navigation are key factors for me. I very much prepare my rides. So I can pre-load, via the dashboard, multiple day routes. So I have not had to get a route from other places to the dashboard and use a hot-spot. But I agree that someway to "squirt" a route across more directly would be great.
The navigation for me is fine, and the Climber functionality is very good, better than Climb Pro on the Garmin and the recently announced Wahoo Summit. I like the underlying maps being based on the OpenCycleMap, so you see existing cycle routes (such as the EuroVelo) marked up. I like the fact that it is both touch-screen and button. So in the winter, the buttons are good to use.
I agree with the battery life. But another irritation is the start up time - from powering on to being ready is much longer than the Garmin. As I had a variety of Garmin mounts on various bicycles, I stuck the included Garmin mount converter into the Karoo. No plans to use the Karoo out front mount.
It integrates well with the Garmin Varia rear radar light, I have stuck in a Pay As You Go data plan SIM into the Karoo 2, so it can keep a live track page up to date, as I often ride alone. I just share the URL to the live track page and my partner can see where I am. This was an extra step compared to the Garmin approach of linking the phone with the Edge and letting the Edge get the phone to send out position updates.
It is heavier and a little more bulky that the Edge 530 but its bigger screen. I am unconcerned about any extra weight or aerodynamics.
I’ve had the Karoo for about a year and found it a huge improvement over the Garmin 530 for navigation. Yes, you have to watch the battery life, but my rides are generally not long enough to completely drain the battery. I’ve had small issues with rerouting, but nothing like with the Garmin, and I agree that loading routes when on the road could be simpler than using your phone as a mobile hot spot. I used an iphone originally but the battery drained too quickly.
Nice and honest review. I've had the Karoo II since Januari 2021 and I really love it. The battery consumption I experience is about the same: as a rule of thumb with the map at medium brightness (which is still pretty bright TBH) I also have about 10% loss per hour. For how I ride that is more than OK.
I really love the very regular updates with new / improved features about every two to three weeks.
Maybe because I primarily use it for road use, the rerouting is actually pretty OK for me and predictable and consistent. Actually two of my occasional cycling buddies usually appoint me to watch the route since their computers have the tendency to route back to the point where we left the route instead of looking ahead to the next intersection with the route as the Karoo tends to do.
That leads me to believe that setting a route to "prefer gravel" or "prefer road" might have a big influence on the re-routing algorithm since we experience it quite differently 🙂
Thanks for the insightful review. I've been using a K2 since it was first available and it has so many great features, but Routing is a serious flaw. This is most apparent to me on mountain bike trails where I've (tried) to use it on hundreds of different trails. As you say, when you start out the unit shows a yellow route w/ arrows but it's only a matter of time before a dreaded Reroute/red arrow path shows up and once it does the original route is gone and the unit is useless for navigating. Really too bad, and really too bad that HH hasn't listened to its users and fixed this flaw.
If you have google maps, you can pre-download the maps to your phone. That helps to keep data in check and if you are out of cell range, the maps still works!
If you use OsmAnd, you can download an entire country to your phone! Great for peace of mind, as its just there when you're out of range. ALso Includes trails and paths which google often doesn't map.
True, but it's inconvenient to think ahead about that. I've definitely been on rides on planned routes in areas I haven't been to before where I wanted to use google maps to look for things you wouldn't easily find on the bike gps, only to discover there was no cell service. :(
I have been using Hammerhead Karoo's for about 4 years now, starting with the Karoo 1 and now the Karoo 2, and I have had a great experience with both.
Your method of importing routes from ride with gps works, but a much easier method would be to link your ride with gps account to your Hammerhead account. Then all you need to do to import routes is 'Pin' the route in ride with gps and sync routes in your Hammerhead account. One big advantage to pinning and syncing routes, is if the route gets modified, you will always have the latest version on your Karoo.
I have been very happy with the routing and rerouting on my Karoo 2, but it seems like the problem with rerouting 'acting up' started about 1 month ago. I'm sure that Hammerhead will get it working properly again soon. But, I agree that we should have the ability to 'mute' or turn off rerouting!
i am fairly certain the rerouting is new bugs in last 1-3 months - was pretty ok until end of Summer, but anecdotally of course it has gotten way way worse, even when you are literally on the route. i have a 20m under-roadway-tunnel and it now always briefly loses GPS and completely panics and reroutes to like 500m off plan as opposed to directly in front of the tunnel where my actual route goes anyway. It also has so much trouble with segments and climbr and so on - weird edge conditions, putting you on segments that dont actually follow the route you are on, etc. As someone else said, I wish they'd open source the software, because the hardware is much better than the software. So much of what they have is basically reimplementing Garmin 2012, as opposed to the flexibility one would have hoped from a ground up Android based bike computer. I've pretty much gone back to my old Edge 520 Plus but try the Karoo again every couple weeks to see how it is doing.
(and +1 on your route import point - hand importing via link seems super painful compared to dashboard route linking, which i also do as well - though from Komoot and Strava where afaik they just all come over magically w/o needing to pin or anything -- though i do find it sometimes i update on komoot, say, then refresh on dashboard, and end up doing a reboot karoo re-refresh dashboard go back re-resave in komoot back to dashboard refresh loop trying to trigger the update on device - wish it had a "go check again and make sure you are up to date" on the head unit)
Came here to mention this - the integration/syncing of favorites is pretty useful.
Thanks for for the review. We want the freedom to follow, deviate from , and party-pace our route. Not a task master. I look forward to the day that there is a cycle computer that acts more like a compass towards a bearing and only prevents you from going down a dead end.
I have an old Garmin Oregon 450. Does pretty good with the routing. You don't need a "cycling GPS", sometimes the outdoors/hiking ones work just as well. and quite a few of them support ANT+ sensors. Also, no account necessary, Plug it in with USB and you can just put .GPX files on it from whatever source you have.
This is what I use also. All those cycling navigation devices have way too much functionality.
Non-cycling GPS units don't mount on the handlebars the way a cycling GPS does. I like the dashboard because it allows me to upload easily to other programs, such as TrainingPeaks, RideWithGPS and Strava. Remember that this cycling GPS serves a wide audience (racers, triathletes, touring cyclists and others).
Garmin makes a handlebar mount for the Garmin Etrex. It is not perfect, but it works for me.
Thanks for a good and honest review. Between the different choices it's all about choosing the one that best fits the needs of the user.
Personally I prefer the Wahoo Roam. Long battery life and simple to use. Great customer service BTW. I don't need all the bells and whistles of a Garmin.
The reroute and short battery life of the Karoo doesn't work for me. Might be fine for others. You could always carry a battery charger for it or your phone.
Again. Great review👍
That's a good review of things that are important to me, too. With my Wahoo Elemnt Bolt 1, I figure out the next day's route in my hotel room using RideWithGPS on my little computer, and use a USB cable to load it on to the Elemnt. That works every time, with no need to mess around with the Wahoo account. If it could be transferred via bluetooth, I might consider upgrading or switching to something else, but it looks like this device isn't anything that would help me. The map screen looks nice, though. Battery life would be a deal breaker, too, as I'm old and slow and sometimes need all day to get where I want to go.
I have the Element Roam and can load routes through Bluetooth…. just an fyi…..🤙🏻
Still love my v1 Bolt. There are limitations but generally I like it and it is small.
It’s easy just to stop a route and grab a coffee ☕️ and when your ready to get back on course, start the route again , I like the suggestion bike routes, the most about the Karoo 2 , I’m always finding better bike routes without doing anything but looking at the screen and seeing more traveled bike routes, which is a game changer in adventure riding , great 👍 you/tube
Having had Garmin, Wahoo and now Karoo, I agree with you on the routing, the re-reouting and having to import a route on anything but a PC is prolematic. I don't use routes a lot, but see it becoming more common as I escape home more often.
@@cjohnson3836 Karoo., Garmin and I’d never buy a Wahoo product again.
I saw you using the karoo. I have been a user of the version 1 and 2.
I agree with the issues. For a non competitive cyclist like me this is the best option. The mapping/ routing is really good.
Of course I would like more battery but 10 hours will be enough for 99.9pct of my rides.
The biggest fear I have is the overall build quality. That's why I upgraded from the karoo 1 as the Garmin fixation was very weak. Time will tell..
I did the tour of Santa Barbara last month and there was a karoo tent loaning these out to use for the ride. Everyone using one of these said it died during the ride.
Thanks. Another very useful review. Best wishes on the rest of the trip.
I'm a new adopter. I only really wanted the mapping and this has one of the best map screens and was on a really good offer. I knew what to expect re the battery life so I bought a cheap battery pack. Problem is, on the out front mount, which is perfectly acceptable, it dies leave enough room between the unit and the bars to plug in a cable. I've added the garden basic mount on my stem to use whilst charging
I have not commented much lately.
I love this channel.
Keep up the great work.
Thank you
I'm still running a K1, which is even chunkier but I got it on sale before K2 was announced and am generally happy with it. I haven't had the rerouting issue though, it worked for me even on longer rides (which is my main use, navigation only, I don't care too much about the numbers). As some comments suggest and since the issue seems fairly known I suppose HH will adress it. And that is also one thing I love about the Karoos. The software gets constantly updated and improved and even though my unit is an older version I don't feel I'm missing out on any functionalities other than having a more compact unit itself. So let's hope it will be fixed soon (maybe even a dedicated function to turn of rerouting altogether gets added) :) … Oh, and one big plus for the Karoo agaist the phoin IMHO is the Karoo being waterproof (despite the screen not being usable in heavier rain, but that's not to blame on HH). I've had a fair share of bad weather days and the K1 has led me just fine.
Good review. Thanks. Highly recommend getting a local SIM card with data when traveling. Makes life so much easier by allowing a cheap way to use your favorite map app and not have to pay for the international data/roaming.
I have a Karoo 2 from when they first came out. The best thing about the K2 is that they’re constantly pushing updates to the unit every 2 weeks. They also actively listen to suggestions from users on their forums. I wouldn’t be surprised if we could get the a change on how the reroute function works. Maybe an option to turn that off during a ride.
actively listen? jajajajajajaja, not when their buggy, untested software, breaks functionality.
@@casladek I've had something fixed through forum discussion which lead to an update. Maybe it's not for everyone, but personally, I think it's nice to have access to that.
@@emtee52 The latest software released nearly 3 weeks ago rendered indoor profiles useless (unless the head unit has a GPS connection {why would GPS ever be used on a trainer} and a speed sensor paired). HH ignored the issue for days and promised a fix would be released last week which never happened (nor communicated). Now they say the fix will be released on 17 Nov 22 with the next software update (that's 4 weeks between software updates). It took HH Support 2+ weeks to officially address the known issue on their community forum and post a temp work around; that is pathetic. Yes, the hardware build quality is nice, the screen size/resolution is great; I do like it. The battery life (or should we say the battery's software optimization) is not as good as it should be given the screen and battery specs. They can't seem to make much improvement to battery life BUT that really doesn't impact my 4-6 hour rides as it would, say, bikepackers, etc., though the overall working life of the battery will be lower (and the unit itself for that matter as i assume they will not offer battery replacement services) as LiPo chem can only be charged so many times. The fact that HH Support miserably fails to communicate is really the BIG issue. Another questionable thing is they advertise and market the unit having USB-C fast charging which is total BS... 5v (max) @ 2.4 amp (max) is "NOT" USB-C fast charging and using a battery pack/bank to charge (say on a long ride or bikepacking) is not supported as well as null and voids the 1 year warranty. USB-C gets the unit its IP6x rating, which is great (I like that) BUT the unit does not support "industry standard" USB-C fast charging (let's not forget the K2 is basically an Android Smart Phone).
@@casladek Sounds like it's time for you to make a switch!
@@emtee52 after 10 yrs on Garmin the change of scenery was overdue when i jumped a year ago. things, for the most part, had been fine for what i use the K2 for until a couple months ago and after more than 1 ridiculous experience with HH support i said i don't mind letting others know that the reality is HH's advertising claims, marketing and support are misleading and subpar (but what cycling company's isn't... lol ).
Thank you for this, I was just about to pull the trigger on a Karoo but re-routing is a big issue for me and Wahoo is definitely good enough for me there.
I have the HH Karoo 2 and absolutely love it... except... the cursed lack of ability to turn off rerouting. I was on a gravel rail trail that went straight for a few miles. At some point, it decided I was about 100' to my left riding parallel to the trail. There was nothing over there other than brush. It kept trying to reroute me through imaginary paths that didn't exist to get on the main trail. Then, just as mysteriously, it decided that I was back on the route and canceled the reroute. Hammerhead really needs to fix this issue. Over all though, I much prefer the Karoo 2 over my Wahoo Elemnt.
Yea as i mentioned above they seem to have some random periodic sampling of the routing so things decide to totally change then totally change back in unexpected way. And it loves to suggest the stupidest reroutes ever, and then also regularly refuses to follow the route ive given it and force reroutes around trails it doesnt believe in and instead wants me on things that don't exist. Admittedly im sure it is happier on big tarmac than gravel - but still - after riding same thing 50+ times maybe it could accept that there actually is a path there... (and yes, i know that isn't how the software works, etc, etc - though would be cool if it did)
Thanks. I’m only really interested in navigation so I’ll be using my phone with an app downloaded until those bike computers improve.
When I rode across France, a couple of years ago, I got a SIM card from Orange with 20GB of data for $30.00. I had to buy more data at some point, but it allowed me to use my phone with voice cues through my hearing aids. But I still prefer using a GPS because my phone often shuts down due to over heating when I am riding on a hot sunny day. I used to use a Garmin Dakota for navigation and a Cateye cycle computer for data. But have since switched to a Garmin 1030+. I like the larger screen size, and while it isn't perfect, it is ok.
Tried the Karoo 1. Hardware was kind of promising, but software was not great, so I went back to Garmin. Still wish they would just open source the software so we all could build an Android OS for it that just simply run Google Maps, though I've had issues with Maps' routing in Europe. I really don't understand the benefit of keeping software closed when there isn't a subscription fee.
I have the K2, and like it much better than the Garmins I've owned. I have had to deal with the reroute as well, but aside from that, I have preferred this unit to any other.
As always an honest review. I've been a Karoo 2 user for almost a year. I like it for its navigation features in spite of it's quirks. I also like how it integrates my sensors, smart lights and varia radar. I always have the map on when I ride. Battery life is a concern but my rides are generally not much longer than 4 hours.
There is a really nerdy, tech feature to "side-load" android mobile apps. It's nice but in my experience it's a bit annoying b/c new verions don't automatically update what you installed. You basically have to uninstall your previous version to side load the updated app.
How do side-loaded apps display and how do you switch between those and the Karoo app itself? I'd like a bike computer for which I can write my own code, ideally integrating with what's on there to avoid needing to write the boring nuts and bolts bits so I can concentrate on what interests me. Unfortunately I think battery life would be a problem with the Karoo.
Very helpful. Probably not going to buy this, mostly because of price and the reroute.
I'm leaning more to Garmin Explore 2. Apps for phones are getting pricey when using premium stuff
In my personal case, navigating is more the case of doing it like in the car: I sit on the bike and set a destination that I want to go to. No route planning the day before or whatever. From that point of view, the phone is just unbeatable. As someone mentioned, you can get yourself a prepaid SIM, or if you are Europe based, roaming within the union is anyhow no longer existing practically, so just grab the phone and go.
I keep looking at the dedicated bike GPS units, but I never end up getting one. Metrics don't interest me at all, so I end up defaulting to the phone. Been on mostly full day rides so far, though. No overnighters or multiple day trips. Perhaps those might end up changing my opinion. Until then, a phone and a backup powerbank, and all good to go.
And another thing that you did mention: why the hell are most of them locked out of reversing them over the stem, so that I can run the handlebar bag undisturbed? That one is a major no go for me.
Haha, rerouting 🤣 It's one of the main reasons i had to get rid off my gps device - more frustrating than useful. I hope the newer gen devices are doing a better job.
Thank you for tackling this confusing topic (i never used one of these, only my phone, so the details of how it works in detail are super useful).
Ps. Doing routes from Ride With GPS you need the premium version of it, right?
Find a club to join for $20-30/year. Most seem to offer at least the ride creation ability as well as advocating for cycling.
I have had my Karoo 2 for 18 months now and generally like it. However, the rerouting is a BIG problem. Earlier this year I took part in a sponsored ride in an area I was not familiar with. I got separated from the main group and due to rerouting was taken 4 miles off the route before I realised I had gone off route. I still don't understand where it was trying to route me to.
I think that if there is a problem with the GPS signal, that can cause the Karoo 2 to want to reroute as well as inaccuracies with the map. It definitely would help if there could be a margin of error before rerouting kicked in.
Love my Karoo 2 but the constant beeping once I’m off route is very annoying. Sometimes I just decide to change course halfway through a route and this unit just has fits and won’t shut up 😆 Other than that and the battery life (which I’ve dealt with by not having the map screen up all the time) the unit is great.
You can turn audio notifications off. My Karoo 2 is silent.
I agree with your review , as a k2 user. An additional stumbling block to using the k2 comes in its lack of implementation with Shimano di2. If you want to use a connection between the k2 and di2 to check di2 battery levels or use top buttons to change the pages on your k2 , you can’t. All other top end head units have this capability as did the k2 until in May when Shimano ( ill- advisably ) blocked its connection. While I do like my k2 , I haven’t uploaded any updates since May. I would find losing this connection a deal breaker for the purchase and use of a k2. I do realize this is on Shimano and my next groupset purchase will reflect this dissatisfaction. Both these companies need to try harder to accommodate their loyal and paying customers!
I am with you 150%! I have written to Shimano about this, with no reply. I have Di2 on both my road bike and gravel bike, but will not in the future. And I'm not keen to start side-loading apps for my k2. Maybe Hammerhead should do that for us?
Battery for me is the main issue i actually been debating going back to a new garmin 1040 but i have also got feedback that screen has issues with responding also my di2 is a no go with this unit now
My edge 830 almost ended up in a ditch the other day after a very annoying navigation experience. Probably the most frustrating experience was theclimb notifications which interrupt the map AND navigation instructions. There is no greater annoyance that to be bugged about a climb (Yes, I can see the climb, its directly in front of me) and to also lose map and audible instructions for when a climb has forking roads.
I think you can turn the climb thing off. I don't mind it, but often I just swipe back to a normal screen after it pops up.
@@donbarnard82 Thanks I managed to find the setting last night and turned it off for all of my profiles.
Good perspective! I think battery life would be the deal breaker for me though.
All most folks would need is the bike equivalent of ‘Car Play’ .
A head unit that syncs to the phone in your pocket - ‘Bike Play’ functionality.
Would blow Garmin and the rest out of the water.
The re-routing issue occurs on all bike GPS units. I agree that it is unbelievably frustrating. I have the Garmin 830 model and it happens all the time. The reason is that none of these device could be built at a price point for the market but have the resolution needed. FYI, you would need the resolution of a professional surveying GPS which has accuracies down less than a foot to have no re-routing. However, even these professional surveying GPS devices need to be in a fixed location for 10 minutes to get a resolution less than a foot, a situation which obviously would never work on a bike.
The rerouting isn’t the problem. The inability to temporarily disable it is. Garmins are able to do this.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Yes, you can disable it on the Garmin, but what if you come to a junction and it constantly decides to re-route in each direction you go. This is caused by lack of resolution of determining exactly where you are, which is a problem with all GPS systems when on gravel trails.
@@markfletcher4605 I can live with that. The hammerhead is CONSTANTLY rerouting with no off switch.
I've had the map routing take me down a hiking path that then wasn't a path at all but complete bush bashing. On the map I could see another trail which was partially ridable and hike a bike and it did cut some time off my route so I wasn't too fussed. I tether to my phone to upload rides or maps etc if I'm not connected to WIFI. It takes me about 2 sec to turn on the tether on the phone and the completed route uploaded straight away and I turn off the tether.
The battery life for me is the most annoying part. When they first listed the Karoo2 they said 17hrs then it was revised to 10 then it went up to 12hrs after a patch release just after it was unit was available to the public. I get 10% battery loss per hour and I'm running power meter, heart rate and 25% brightness which is enough but it'd be nice to be able to run it at more because the screen looks crisper and sharper at higher levels but significant loss in battery even on the white background.
I usually run 6 data fields on one screen and a map on the other with that 10% loss per hour. Overall I'm happy with the UI and the regular releases/updates. Menu nav is easy and customisation etc. I love the maps and the detail it has, I'd never go to the Wahoo or Garmin the maps on the Wahoo look 1980 and the Garmin is nearly there but still lacks the detail the Karoo2 has.
Thanks for the review! The international data plan strikes again! I used my phone on a recent five-week tour. I used RWGPS. I wish all these devices and apps had an override for rerouting or freak outs when you're off route. RWGPS allows you to suspend recording, but 1) I've hit bugs with it and 2) I often forget to start it up again. I end up turning the volume down.
I have an iPhone mini which may be about the same size. I set my routes ahead of time when in a WiFi zone using an app called Pocket Earth. I find that it is pretty good, better anyway than my Elmnt Roam. Similarly, on trails it won’t work as well as My Gaia app. Established routes on Komoot will work on the Wahoo, but there are not many for the places I go. Using Pocket Earth I seldom get lost but I have been on trails where clearly portage was involved or even unwanted single track. At other times there were new paved bike trails but they did not show on my map probably due to not enough updating. I like my Wahoo because it is smaller but if I am worried about getting lost then my iPhone mini with Pocket Earth is my fall back.
I forgot, I added $15 to my T-Mobile plan for international data and roaming when I was in Japan. I removed it when I returned. I never had to make or receive a call when I was in Japan, but if I had, it would have cost me $0.25 per minute. The data and text messages were unlimited.
fortunately, the karoo seems to remember the mobile hotspot pretty well, so I dont usually have to work too hard to get them connected.
I have a keroo2 and it stays in the drawer now because of all of these issues. The screen is also too bright at night and you cant turn it down. Battery life is not long enough and the battery is huge, so its a pain to keep charged away from mains power.
As usual a great video. What’s the name of the mirror attached to your glasses called ?
Forced rerouting is like helping old people over the street that didn’t want to go that way. And one is grinning and smiling and keeps on rerouting forcingly until other side is reached…
Appreciate the content. I'm just getting back into cycling and this is the single most confusing equipment purchase I have run across. Mainly because I haven't used a GPS unit so I don't really know what I like or don't. I will mostly be on gravel so the re-route thing may or may not be an issue. I think the feature I am curious about on any unit is, if I just ride, can I use a "get me back to where I started function?" In other words, I'm not following a route, just a dirt road but need help getting back to my car.
A lot of devices can do that. At least if you have been recording your ride.
I know for sure this works on Wahoo devices.
I'm like you. I haven't owned a GPS unit before. I decided to give my phone a shot at it first and I've been successfully using my iPhone with the Kamoot app for almost a year now. I secure it to my handlebars with a Quadlock. I've been very happy with this set up and have no plans to buy a separate unit for now.
Oh, and I've used my iPhone with navigation for 8-hour rides and still have battery life left at the end. I do bring an extra battery unit with me just in case for long rides.
I've been using the Bolt with Komoot for about 4-5 years now. The only thing it needs is the ability to pan the map.
The new bolt can. Although it is not as easy as a touchscreen but it works good enough.
wow... what a round about way to get the maps on the Karoo... The screenshot may make up for it... I'll stick with the bolt v2
Hi. How detailed are the maps compared to the OSM maps found on Garmins? are there POI already built-in?
Initially I didn't like the Hammerhead Karoo 2.....but as time moves on and with the constant updates I now love it, although there are a few drawbacks.
It's getting better and better.
Since it's touch screen, how does it work with full finger gloves? Or would the buttons on competitors be a better option? Riding gravel and dirt many like the added hand protection.
I agree it's the most smartphone like option out there and the graphics for the navigation bests the others.
Thanks Russ!
You have the buttons on the side you can use
When the replacement of my Garmin Edge 1000 was discussed, I made a very stupid decision, namely the purchase of an HH Karoo 2!
I fully agree with this review.
There are 2 very annoying problems with the navigation that have been reported to HH for more than 2 years by various users and are regularly posted on the forum. However, HH makes NO EFFORT to solve these problems in a customer-oriented way!
First, the re-routing issue highlighted here in this review. Surely it can't be that difficult to design a switch in software where you can choose to switch the re-routing on/off. HH does not follow this up in any way!
A second, even more annoying problem, is when you want to follow a gpx-route from a point that is not the starting point.
In other words: I am at 20 km from my house where the start of the route is located, while I am at a place that is 1 km away from the route. Instead of putting me on that route via the shortest route, Karoo 2 always navigates to the start of the route.
The solution that HH offers for this is unimaginable.
According to HH you have to place a pinpoint on the map on the route to be followed and then navigate there to be able to follow the route!
HH's fourteen-day updates offer numerous frivolities that are of no use to the user.
The real problems as indicated here are NOT addressed despite numerous reports!
That's why it's enough for me! I am going back to a brand where these problems are not present > my new Garmin 1030 plus is on its way !!! Bye bye HH and see you never again!
rerouting off option please!!!
Love my Hammerhead!
If one only care about navigation and some tracking, just use android phone, some old one, with huuuge battery. I am more tech savvy, so I did install custom barebones (no google or any other additional stuff) ROM. Installed komoot (thats what I prefer, but there are loads alternatives), downloaded maps. Airplane mode. GPS on. One can share wifi from main "real" phone if needed. Battery lasts 6-8 hours if navigating. If tracking only? Not sure - A LOT more.
Google maps is bad, unless you stick to valid roads only.
I'd be interested to know what your issues with navigation on the Bolt v1 are (I have one). For me it's pretty usable, sure I'd love more detail on the screen sometimes, but in those situations I tend to check my phone (and they're rare). The re-routing on the newer models is sort of a non-feature to me, I mainly just want to have the route I made the time to prepare; so the Hammerhead sounds super annoying!
The routing features I love on the Wahoo are that you can mute the directions and just have the map, and the phone app integration -- I assumed the Hammerhead would be decent here. I really don't get why Garmin hasn't caught up to Wahoo in this area -- I can be out on a ride, design an updated route in Komoot and import it directly to the head unit with almost no effort; it's awesome. (Incidentally the routes that the Wahoo app itself chooses aren't great, which I why I wouldn't trust the on-device re-routing.)
Bolt V1 has no idea of street names or spatial awareness. It basically follows a digital breadcrumb and was pretty useless as a standalone unit to navigate on the fly. It worked fine if you were riding a well established route. The stuff we have been doing has required some extemporaneous rerouting.
@@PathLessPedaledTV yes fair, the lack of street names is a bit annoying (but it would be pretty packed on the screen) - that's where I tend to pull out the phone if it comes to it (you did say you don't want to use the phone, which is understandable). But yeah given how bad most cycle auto-routing things are (except Komoot generally) I probably wouldn't trust what it suggested anyway - which seems to be some of the issue with the Hammerhead, aside from not being able to turn it off, and it triggering too early.
Interesting review Russ. Like many others in this comment section I am a Karoo 2 user, a Tourer and previously owned the K1. I hear exactly what you are saying and my question to you is. Has Hammerhead responded to your input? I’d love what you propose regarding further map screens and turn Off the dreaded re-route bug. Chris
Nothing yet.
I wish they would have a phone app and have it work like Garmin or Wahoo. That is a deal breaker for me.
my significant other likes a bike computer so the riding distances i tell pre ride match the after.
Love my Karoo 2. I also use with Ride With GPS to create the maps, import to Karoo 2. Having all the metrics, climb details, sync with Garmin Radar, etc. Its really the best cycling computer that I can see for overall. I've tried Garmin latest, Wahoo latest, and returned both. Its all about the user interface. Karoo 2 is best OS system and updates weekly. SRAM team keeping it active.
updates weekly? that is not true. HH advertise and claim bi-weekly software updates but they don't always meet that schedule. the last software release was nearly 3 weeks ago and introduced a major "Auto-Pause" bug breaking indoor profiles rendering the device practically useless unless a speed sensor is paired & GPS is connected (attempt that in a basement on a smart trainer). HH promised a fix to be released last week but failed and won't be releasing the next update until 17 Nov.
I discovered you can use your smart phone off line (low power use) and navigate using GPS…it saves buying an extra device…a smart phone is all you need. And if you use sinewave usb power generator from a dynamo you will never run out of juice
Hi there, I have routed myself for a very long time just with my phone and the Komoot App. The beauty of that is, that you can download the tour when still in WiFi and then you need no data while on the ride. Further, since Komoot only turns the screen on (I have Android) when a turn is coming up, the phone lasts all day, with battery to spare.
But, I have now tried to go with the Wahoo Roam. And I must echo your statement, "Nothing is perfect!". I am a bit surprised that having had the Wahoo Bolt, that you did not opt to try the Roam as a first choice.
Long story short, these devices are all quite expensive, and for a party pace rider, who does some multi day tours, or shorter rides and just wants basic navigation, I think: "Save the money, buy the World Map Option from Komoot for $30, and run with you phone!" And yes, sometimes there might be rain....but there is also Zip-Locks ;-)
But that brings me to a whole other topic: What is a good and practical phone mount. Yes, all you I-Phone users out there are lucky...but what about for others??? Worth a video, ....perhaps???
Greetings from Germany, Frank
PS: Ride on!
I use the phone at home. In a foreign country the phone is more valuable as a phone than just a GPS device when things go wrong. Would rather use a computer than risk damaging it or wearing down the battery unnecessarily.
The Bolt V1 was terrible at on the fly navigation TBH unless you were following a set route and expected no problems. I like the minimalist interface but never loved it for navigation.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Understand. But the Roam is much better. And you can load a track on the go, and you can turn re-routing off, and...much more ;-)
@@franknobody5965 i was really happy wirh the quadlock sytem. You can get (glue) stick on adapter for alternative covers. I like to save my phone for energy reasons. Multi day bikepaking…
I tried navigating with my phone but it is just not good enough.
(Google maps, Osmand). Also, the battery life of your phone goes down very quickly
when using navigation apps, and in sunlight, the phone screen is hard to watch.
Last year I bought a Garmin eTrex 22, and this is just perfect for me.
I know it is old school, and you can only upload gpx tracks via usb.
It doesn't have a touch screen. No metrics gathering.
But, I only need to know where I am, and where I go next.
And I want it too work 100% of the time.
I don't need rerouting (hate it), and I don't need turn-by-turn navigaion.
Also, it uses AA batteries(rechargable) that last for about
15 hours. This thing is perfect for me.
I use Garmin Basecamp on my PC to upload gpx files.
People that ask... Why don't you just use your phone?.. they probably have never used
their phone for navigation on longer trips.
I also like the new Garmin Edge Explore 2, I would love to try that.
This Karoo2 would drive me nuts, not worth $399
I’ll stick to my Roam 😊
Instead of using your American cellphone providers data plan, look into an e-sim. You can buy them on line, most service several countries, and they are waaay cheaper then then international data plan your carrier is providing you with. There are some good videos on TH-cam that compare different e-sim providers. Good luck and have fun!
Can I use this thing without a SIM? Do I have to pay a mobile phone company to use the SIM? Brightness on mobile devices is awful compared to Garmin? What about the Karoo 2?
Rerouting is either desirable or it isn't depending on how and where you're riding, in a perfect world the re-routing options would always be good, safe, proven bike friendly paths, but in my experience there's no way to trust this, so I always feel troubled by GPS rerouting, as too often you can blindly follow a route into a muddy bog or into a deep river crossing that's fine for a horse but will ruin your day on a bike. I would prefer some more intelligent re-routing options rather than the get back on track at all costs option.
Karoo doesn't allow to disable re-routing which is extremely annoying while riding off-road, I got lost many times because of re-routing. Even worse, Hammerhead has been completely ignoring feedback from users and reject to change that.
The not being able to stop reroute is a joke. For the rest perfect device. Battery last just longer than I do, so normally no problem.
Did they fix the rerouting issue yet?
No.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Perhaps they don't see it as an issue 😉
"The most phone-like cycling GPS I've used personally" - that's exactly the problem with modern cycling GPS computers, except for those made (so far) by Wahoo: they try too hard to emulate the user experience of smartphones, which are not designed for an interaction with no visual feedback.
The use of touchscreens (with no physical buttons redundancy) in any applications where you are supposed to keep your eyes at the world in front of you (cycling, driving, running, etc.) is a recipe for accidents. There is no way one could coherently interact with the device while riding a bike even on the smoothest of roads without constantly looking at the screen, let alone off-road or under any amount of rain.
This wouldn't be an issue if the designers of modern Garmin or Hammerhead devices actually allowed the users to fully operate the computers without any touch input if they wanted to, at least for all in-ride functionalities. But since this is not the case, and even though I like a number of things about the Hammerhead Karoo concept from an engineering point of view, I'll stick with Wahoo, and I sure hope they will not abandon their ethos with their next generations of products.
I agree 100%. I have wondered for many years now why a car driver is not allowed to even touch a smartphone while driving, but a cyclist can look at and (try to) operate a bike computer while riding along in traffic. And, yes, I'm one of those cyclists!
I also have a Karoo2 and it hasn't lived up to the advertising hype. Nearly every update in the last six months has introduced a bug to a different part of the system. Hammerhead constantly ignores its customer's requests to be able to roll back the updates to a 'working' version. The issue with not being able to turn off re-routing is the most annoying, frustrating and requested update, but Hammerhead just refuses to listen. They did introduce an update for people to check tyre valve pressure, which was never requested by anyone at all!!!
The Karoo could be the best cycling computer, but it missing some features.
Everything you mentioned should be fixed.
The Karoo 2 als actually already a bit outdated and a Version 3 with newer GPS technologies like the newest Garmin and Wahoo devices is hopefully around the corner.
They should also have an Wahoo like experience App to sync routes on the fly. BUT also keep it like it is, so it can be independently used.
Hammerhead if you are reading this: hire me as iOS Dev please :D
yep, the re routing is so annoying.....
First version was much better simply because of the larger screen. Now it’s just about how many seconds faster you go up a hill or what gear your in..
Forgot to mention, great review as always.
I have had the Karoo 2 and have run into situations where I was off the route but it was always on the road. Haven't used it on trails. Let them know your feedback, they seem receptive to suggestions and update the software more frequently than Garmin or Wahoo.
I have had similar and had imaginary hills turn up. I think it can depend ( not sure ) on the datum being used. In each country or map involved. So your GPS position may conflict with the map datum in use certainly an odd outcome. Hasn’t stopped me enjoying the Karoo and I am sure the other bike computers suffer similar as they all use same map datum per country.
So it's trying to be a phone but lacks some features that makes phones great for navigation. So, hear me out, maybe the best computer is... an extra phone. The Moto G Power is $150, has 3 days of battery life, and can run Google Maps. You could either buy a prepaid sim at the start of your tour, or just go without and download maps over wifi. Or use your primary phone as a hotspot when you need to. So much more flexible and $250 cheaper.
But how much battery does it have when you navigate with GPS?
I have found that phones quickly run out of battery when using the navigation
@@ostengaard I have a different Motorola phone with same 5000 mAh battery that advertises 2 day battery life. After an 8 hour road trip with navigation and screen on, using LTE data, I have about 40% left. So, a little less than the advertised 2 days. Still, seems a better than the reviewed device.
@@alexandereagal4016 Nice. It just didn't work for me, but it is years ago that I tried last time
And when it comes to water resistance the Smartphone sucks.....
Fair enough. I understand that the G Power is "water repellent" but that doesn't mean much. For $250 you could probably work something out
I too have been using a K2 since it was available. So many things are great about it, but I've sent messages to HH about the rerouting issues since its inception. Today, years later, it is NO BETTER. I cannot complete a mountain bike ride (doesn't matter where, anywhere in the western US is where I ride and it acts the same everywhere) without it rerouting MANY, MANY times. I've never completed a ride where it doesn't do this. And, once it reroutes you simply don't know where your original route is. It'
s USELESS for off-road navigation.
Using the phone as the navigation device was a non-starter for me. If you ride in a hot climate, the heat and the sun will trip your phone's overheat safety in an hour or two and drain your battery big time. The food delivery guys here who use their phones of navigation have a tiny umbrella for the phone, the whole set up is hilarious and of course, not even aerodynamic enough for party pace.
The rerouting issues are a total pain on this device.
Battery life is highly important for me! So the Karoo won't work without powerbank or Dynamo hub.
You can charge it on the bike. I plug mine into a powerbank if the juuce drops to 20%.I've done 100 mile rides and not had to charge the K2. 👍
this is EXACTLY how I experienced. one more silly thing, it can't just point location and create route by it without needing an internet? like seriously.. its evening its getting dark I just want to quick ride, I pick point on map and nothing, can't do without internet, I just downstair this device wifi coverage suck and of course I not setting up hotspot on my phone yet---open my phone setting internet type password smh--- gosh its dark already. they says "Best in Class Navigation" whoever wrote that need their head hammered.
PLP, I concur with you regarding the 3 issues you discussed. The hardware is nice, it's top notch but the software has basically been a significant work in progress (beta software) since initial release though yes, there has been improvements over time BUT there is much more room for improvements than most talk about (i.e. the Auto-Pause bug introduced with the last software release). The one thing which wasn't mentioned is HH's Support; it is horrible, it is practically non-existent, of which (per their marketing bs) they "pride" themselves; it is so bad that their market share could easily plateau and/or drop unless things change. Hopefully SRAM management and its BOD take more of an interest...
Honestly, the hardware isn't even nice. Hardware-wise, it's an underpowered, ancient system-on-chip with an awful/ancient GPS chipset. They basically took an off-the-shelf phone SoC from 8 years ago. Hopefully SRAM gives them the resources they need to invest in the platform, because the hardware badly needs a refresh and the software is kludgy (can't even add a map on two separate screens because their design would apparently mean the map was constantly refreshing in the background).
Time to get a gps
Getting lost is half the fun.
the battery is kind of a dealbreaker
No wifi directly from your phone must be on home network thats a FAIL
why use a specific computer whn you can just use a phone. i dont really understand why there is a need for a very narrowi functioning device.
Battery life. Weather protection. Etc. if out in the middle of nowhere I’d rather keep the phone a phone in case of emergencies than tax it 🤷🏽♂️
I don’t use electronics on my rides anymore other than some headphones and music I don’t want the gadgetry it ruins the experience for me
Roadie stuff lol
Why not just use the phone!?
It would get fried from all the sun exposure.
Ohho didn't consider that! Great info. I've been using my phone for navigation in day long rides for the last 3-4 years, some of the rides were in Bangladesh where it's very hot. But my phone (OnePlus 7T) is still working just fine despite the abuse over the last 3+ years. So that's why was just wondering about why not use the phone. Thank you for the info, got plans for some multiple day rides and this video will be very helpful. As of now I don't have any experience with bike navigation devices. LOVE your contents btw!
seems like a weird title for a review video
Yeah. No one was watching “Karoo 2 Review” 🤷🏽♂️
All sounds a load of crap to me. Turning phones into personal hotspots
It's actually very simple - the Karoo talks to the cloud via WiFi. It doesn't talk to your phone. So you're never left wondering if the reason it's not working is some weird Bluetooth outage. The number of times I've seen Garmin users tearing their hair out wondering why syncing hasn't worked...
it will not take long and we all will use paper maps again. But have fun as long as it lasts.
Twice the price it should be, buggy, poor battery. Its no from me.
I'll use my old phone that goes for days and blows this away.