Yes. They see themselves as victims. They don't take responsibility for their thoughts, feelings, words or actions. They reframe any situation to see themselves as the victims. They are the true enemies of everything Jesus stood for, who many of them claim to follow. It's as if MLK was made the figurehead of the KKK.
@Arcadia Berger - To quote Jennifer Freyd, PhD, "DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for 'Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender.' The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim-or the whistle blower-into an alleged offender. This occurs, for instance, when an actually guilty perpetrator assumes the role of 'falsely accused' and attacks the accuser's credibility and blames the accuser of being the perpetrator of a false accusation."
@@MarkyMarcSpector What's your evidence against the scientific observation that most cases of gender dysphoria in teens resolve naturally without intervention once puberty is lived through?
@@KangMinseok most is not all, and nobody is arguing that trans people are a majority group. The basic issue is caring whether a minority groups rights matter or not. Treat people like people, with agency over their own identity. This is not a war on cis straight people...
@@getmotivated1707 no one is supposed to have a right to 'gender', it's a social construct generated by the social community. We also don't give "special" individuals the right to dictate that their random pieces of paper is now suddenly worth 5,000 bucks (money as a social construct). I fundamentally disagree that any individual person should have such a right at law and dictate this social construct upon the community as if it were an individual, inherent property. The only social construct we allow this for is that of 'religion' - I vehemently disagree with the attempt at turning 'gender' into a pseudo-religion(s) where people can enter or exit based on self-conviction alone. By its nature, your 'gender', like your socially constructed 'beauty' or 'race', only exists through the perceptions of others of you. To entitle you at law to dictate perception is a blatant violation of the human right of everyone else to freely express their perception of both social and physical reality.
@@KangMinseok good points, which is why agency over ones OWN identity is paramount, politics has no business in it, and rights extend outward from the individual, their boundary is other people's rights. We agree more than you think if all you've said above stands. Where we seem to disagree is which views are considered the "right" views. I believe it should not matter, no opinion is worth more than another, and my line is drawn at "infringing on basic human rights" as far as weighing them up is concerned because I don't believe I am without bias, and laws or charters of rights have to be precise. They have to cover EVERYBODY. Excluding groups of people based on your religious views or ideology is short sighted, because what happens when the other side is in charge? Suddenly it might be your rights that are up for debate, surely you'd want laws and rules and rights to be very basic and clear? It's a very simple issue for me on that basis, and I think a lot of people are getting caught up in an us vs them distraction, either human rights for all humans is a deal breaker for you, or it's not. Even if you don't like or understand them.
I am sorry that you are not ready to hear the truth about what happens to some families due to the bad counseling advice of people we are supposed to trust. I thought Jordan and his guest was spot on in educating the public about what can go wrong.
Andrew Wakefield did literally the same thing, and thankfully we managed to cut him off before his views became doctrine like John Money's views did. Being autistic, I will likely be fighting Wakefield's lies for the rest of my life.
Jordan Peterson was a clinical psychiatrist and when it comes to bad counselling advice, just listen to his attitude to 'unsophisticated' adolescent rape victims.
peterson never provides any data to support his claim that those who transition have long term complications. He simply makes up such a scenario and accepts it as real. Just because one can imagine something or someone doesn''t make those things exist. I can imagine a Grich who stole Christmas but that is not proof such a Grinch in fact exists.
I Mean, the last time you had him on, he was "pushing back" on the definition of rape and trying to define a woman's rights as though she were property. And that video has over 1 million views, so it doesn't surprise me at this point. He might as well espouse 6th century view points
@@TyroneBiggums789 They mean 'had him on' as clips to react to, just as they did here. 🥰 ...The right wing think of themselves as victims. They don't take responsibility for their thoughts, feelings, words or actions. They reframe any situation to see themselves as the victims. ...They are the true enemies of everything Jesus stood for, who many of them claim to follow. It's as if MLK was made the figurehead of the KKK.
I remember that clip. He basically said the only way to prevent rape is to be next to a man who won’t rape you… like geez I never thought of that before. And when pushed back he said men in your family as if men with families never rape… that guy is ridiculous. The smallest bit of research on abuse debunks him.
Peterson is talking about a case in Canada where the father did receive jail time during a court dispute over his child receiving gender affirming care. It was not because he dared to oppose the care. It was because he repeatedly violated a publication ban that was put in place to protect the child's identity.
There are no Canadian laws that make it criminal to voice opinions opposed to transitioning. No laws exist in Canada that makes it criminal not to use a person's chosen pronouns. peterson simply lies.
You tell people to "look up the laws" yet you provide no such laws that back up peterson's claims. There are no Canadian laws which criminalise speech questioning transition.
No we don't. We don't need more people to hate on a particular group of people, ESPECIALLY not people who think they need to be capable of surfing on their title for this long while spouting such fucking nonsense.
peterson and grossman make up stories and lie in order to make the difficult life of transgenders that much more difficult. Not enough hatred can be directed at these two vicious hateful individuals.
Yeah I see them all the time just throw it back in their face one of them slammed his door on me telling people in the next room hes untreatable he's not even crazy and he knows it he keeps saying it's the meds it's the meds I can't work with him .....news flash it's still the meds 20 years later same problems different idiots .
No they are not. Good, actual psychologists or psychiatrists know that publicly showing how fucking biased they are, and how eager they would be to have this bias interfere in their treatment should not be able to still hold on to that title, just like how Jordan Peterson was requested to stop using his title for being so hateful. I've not had a therapist doing what you claim they can do, but if I did feel bad, it is because I got a very serious task to work on, and it was something that could make me uncomfortable, or it was something that pressed me on a new issue I overlooked. Not deliberate, but meant to help me grow or combat a problem. This woman is just a sick and twisted human being.
That is true of all humans, though. That is why growing up means learning to manage your own emotions and understanding that nobody can MAKE you feel like anything, without your consent and cooperation. Recreational victimhood is just narcissism in disguise.
@@weirdo82 Oh but they are. But you're too brainwashed to see it, mate. Keep injecting those kids with drugs meant for chemical castration, Big Brother's truth to be sure
If gender affirming care is therapy and providing support, I’m all for it. But if it’s giving children life altering surgery that has a high percentage of issues, then… no. If I try to think about myself when I was 16 compared to now at 31. Like no.
Children do not get sex change surgery. grossman and peterson might not say children are having surgery directly but they imply it. A couple of disingenuous liars.
Lol I'm not trans but I am atheist and my mom is completely distraught over the fact that I'm atheist but she doesn't get to tell me how to live my life and even if she was feeling suicidal I'm sorry, tough s*** you don't get to control other people and you don't get to be pissed off and depressed about other people's decisions for their own lives.
Agreed, I am not telling my kid they cant be trans Im just saying I dont agree. They are free to be who they are. But that same freedom gives me the permission to not have to agree with it. The difference here too is that religion is rubbish as is this gender ideology. Yo believe something I just dont believe
@@cassandramcfadyen1988 but you are wrong for disagreeing with them. If they tell you that they are trans then they are correct and you are wrong for not agreeing with them Just like with my mom she can disagree with me being atheist all she wants but she is incorrect. God doesn't exist. If your kids are trans then they are trans whether you agree or not. If you disagree with them you are incorrect Freedom does not mean you're entitled to incorrect information. Flat earthers are free to think that the Earth is flat but they're still incorrect. Theists are allowed to believe in a God but they are still incorrect you can think that your kids are not trans but you are still incorrect. You can be it jerk as much as you want but you are still incorrect and you would be a very ignorant jerk to your child if you disagree with them about being trans You might think that this discussion about gender is rubbish but you are wrong. Any biologists will tell you that you are wrong. Sex is not a binary in biology in any way shape or form and gender is also not a binary in any way shape or form. I mean before we could do DNA test to actually see what chromosomes a person has if you had an intersex individual that identified as a gender contrary to what the appear to be then they are correct when they identify as a different gender and you are wrong and insisting on what gender they are. Your gender identity is in your brain and your brain is influenced by so many different things during development so yes you can have a person with the incorrect brain development in the incorrect body. Biology is not perfect and you're an absolute fool to think that it is and you are an absolute fool to not understand that your gender identity is dependent on so many factors and it's not just your chromosomes. When you have intersex conditions that you can visibly see or visibly test for then why is it so difficult to think that there might be things in only the brain that are making a gender discrepancy? You might think this is rubbish but that only demonstrates your lack of understanding
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite Perfect example. 'Flat earthers are free to think that the Earth is flat but they're still incorrect ' As is my child. They may "Feel" something that isn't true. You're not saying anything I haven't already heard a million times Still doesn't make it right. The point is That I don't love them less because of what they feel. But They love me less because of what I feel. right???
@@cassandramcfadyen1988 if you were the one that is incorrect then you were the one that is incorrect. If your kid is a flat-earther and loves you less because you're not a flat-earther they are the one that is incorrect. However if your kid is trans and you don't believe them you are the one that is incorrect. Regardless of if my mom agrees or likes it or not she is wrong when she is upset over the fact that I am atheist. What matters is reality and if your opinions don't reflect with reality then you are the one that is incorrect In this topic you are the one that is wrong. It's not about believing something or not, it's facts and evidence. The facts demonstrate that you are the one in the wrong here. Sorry if you don't like reality but, tough shit
As a recovering addict I can tell you Jordan..Mr.moral judge is still a benzo junky.I can see he is still using benzos to get through life...not his rules nor books.
My theory was that it was brain damage due to the abuse and the insane procedure he used to get rid of them but I am beginning to think it's both that and him going back to them.
I agree. People develop a tolerance and dependence on benzodiazepines very quickly and if you are someone who has been addicted to them for decades like Peterson the amount you would be taking would be gargantuan. His rapid detox which he used to try to fix his addiction without having to do any work or go to treatment didn't work, because it doesn't work and that's why it is not allowed in almost every country besides Russia. Taking life advice and looking up to an active valium addict because he promises that fascism will lead to legal rape, and maybe even, a sex slave provided to men by the gov't. Sounds about alt. right doesn't it?
@@generationofswine-ge5rw I uses benzos to help me get off of opiates..lol...and the benzo withdrawel was a MONSTER .A full month of suicidal hell.The entire time one takes benzos..the brain stops producing all of the chemicals that make us feel good..human..coping chemicals.Trying to quit cold Turkey after years of abuse must have been actual hell.Cold Turkey in RUSSIA..lol. Being that he was having seizures for a month feeling suicidal..the world being BLACK for a month waiting for his brains production of dopamines ..seratonins and endorphins..well..he did not pull it off.None of his self help rules helped either..He is still a junky projecting his self hatred towards others...most likely he is picking on the ones that attract him the most. You decide from what he is misdirecting as hardline conservatives do when hiding their own ghosts.
Don't you think that's worrying?Perhaps Jeffrey Masson had a point about the psychiatrists he met who were just 'awful human beings', and the harm they could do to vulnerable people.
I've been pointing out for over a year now that in order for Peterson to keep getting clicks, he needs to keep getting more and more extreme, or his fans will get bored. Just look at his trajectory over the last couple of years.
I mean, I'm largely a fan of him based on his original book, Maps of Meaning in 1999, and his other books are great as well, but I would agree he is getting more and more conservative on TH-cam, especially after signing on with the Daily Wire. I agree with a lot of the things said in this episode, (I am in favor of banning puberty blockers/hormone therapy for anyone under 18 and don't think there is any sane reason to allow that) but I would again agree that his channel is so political that even I, a longtime follower of him, am getting a little annoyed with the obvious political party line he's advertising to (straying from the informative psychology talks like he used to do). I suggest to anybody critical of Jordan to watch his original phycology lectures, read his first book, and just note how much he has changed. Sure, he has been taken over by politics recently, but his roots are very informative and he is a very smart person. There is a lot to be learned from this incredible person's original work.
"Oh, won't someone think of the parents!.. but only in regards to this issue. Screw them when it comes to a basic social welfare nets for poor or struggling parents."
Or the ones who have to bury their children after a mass shooting. I'll bet those parents want to add a few things to all of these "parents bill of rights" so many states are pushing through.
Some of this take is disingenuous, ad hominem, and projection. Same as what they would say about Peterson... Didn't hear David Reimers name come up once.
Incorrect. Blaming suicidality of the entire Reimer family, on the narcissistic monster that caused it to wakefield himself into fame and fortune, namely Dr. John Money
This is a tale as old as time... So JBP should be fully aware of it since he's so fascinated by archetypes. As the parent of a trans child (speaking from the perspective of a child raised in the Mormon church) when children discover and express their own TRUE personality/ identity, if it doesn't meet the expectations of bigoted and judgemental parents who then shun their children, then it's not inexplicable that the child (now an adult) won't take care of you in your elderly years or come to family get togethers, or even want to talk to you. I was utterly rejected when my family found out that I didn't believe in the LDS religion. So, I ran away from home at 15 for a few years. It was not good for my mother's mental health but it did wonders for me and my mental health and allowed me to find myself fully. It was far from ideal but it was better in the long run for everybody that I wasn't forced to live a lie! My children will never know that experience because my ego isn't inflated to the point that my children HAVE to be the people that I DEMAND they be... They just have to be themselves! Why? Because I love THEM for who they are!
Yeah but no. Being who you are is not the same as choosing your sex. Some things are just to be accepted. You are a male or you are a female. Ask your cells - are they XX or XY?
@@peetstf6654 wow, buddy. You're understanding of biology clearly didn't extend beyond high school. Sexuality is far more complicated than chromosomes and is not a binary. Not to mention the distinction between biology, physiology, and social constructs.
@@CaptPeon Wow buddy. 'Choosing your sex' can't be done and isn't more complicated than basic biology. I assume you can't quite get your head around that. How you feel about your sex doesn't interfere with what sex you are. It interferes with your perception of your sex. But hey, your great effort to sound well educated falls on deaf ears son.
at about the 5:19 mark the human with longer hair is suggesting that children (who cannot comprehend the affects of any life long 100% irreversible procedures) should be able to be having "gender affirming care" (un-tested drugging and mutilation) without their parents consent, am I correct in that assumption? Genuinely curious, maybe someone could help me out, just trying to see both sides.
No, that's always the simple-minded surface-level argument rabid TRA's n progressive drones reflexively repeat. Peterson and Grossman are talking about the liberal open-minded parents who are still concerned about their lonely depressed dysphoric child who may simply eventually grow out of their dysphoria like many lesbian n gay men do, being fast-tracked into something permanent they may regret. Ask yourself why the Tavistock Clinic shut down? But parents can't even speak up about any reasonable small concerns for fear of smeared as bigots. That produces great anxiety cuz they wanna be sure their child some of whom may also be wishy washy and flaky kids on many other things in their life, is making the right decision for something so drastic. It's not bigotry, it's a natural parents instinct. There are numerous de-transitioners w/ permanent physical changes. no breasts, deep voices,
Have any of you listened to what any of the detransitioners have said? And hey if we're going to accuse somebody of saying something why don't we try to make sure that they actually said it?
Yes, there are many reasons families become estranged. That is not a revelation nor is it a rebuttal. Furthermore, saying that "straight people can be pieces of sh*t on their own" is completely out of context. So, what's your point? What's the comparison? in the provided clip, neither of them said gender issues were the only reason for anything. In a conversation about a specific issue they are going to talk about the ramifications of that issue. Common sense is not to assume that's to the exclusion of other causes, factors etc. Furthermore, Ms. Grossman is quite obviously talking about her professional experience and observations dealing with this specific issue. By the left's own metrics those are valid. It's the left that elevates the subjective to fact. In leftist parlance this is "lived experience" and its synonym "experiential knowledge"! The fact that some states have taken a stand against trans ideology doesn't negate or disprove what happens elsewhere. The term "anti-trans bill" is your hyperbolic opinion! Many of those bills were passed to protect children from mutilation. Others protect women's sports and/or other areas reserved for women. More importantly, these bills are a reaction to the insanity that is gender ideology. These kinds of laws weren't a thing even a few years ago. The trans movement pushed the envelope to the limits and now there's a reaction. You conveniently omitted that Jordan Peterson is Canadian. He came to prominence because of Canada's specific attempt to compel pronoun speech. Canada has made legal changes that make it possible to separate children from their parents. Canada has also jailed at least one father over his objections to transitioning his daughter. And, they are continuing to persecute him after the fact. This all took place under the infamous C-16 law which proponents insisted wouldn't result in such things. Closer to home, California, which is by far the most populated state in the US is indeed seeking legislation that would allow them to trans kids without parental consent. There's even a case of a mother absconding to CA to trans her child without the father's consent. Washington state is pursuing a similar course. Beyond direct legislation, it's clear that the administrative state and schools in particular have been indoctrinating and grooming children into gender ideology. There is no other explanation for the "Gender Bread Person" or the "Gender Unicorn". Under the circumstances, I think what he said about parents fearing legal and by extension other reprisal is plenty fair. Frankly, I think Dr. Grossman is right. No one is really talking about what this does to the rest of the family. Parents create children, care for them, work their buts off to support them. Real parents know a child better than they know themselves. So, when a child claims they're something the parents know they aren't, how are they supposed to feel? According to you, they're allowed only 1 thing, blind affirmation. Of course, gender confusion is only the first step. It may very well lead to indelible changes to both their mind and body. Imagine a parent forced to watch as their child changes themselves in ways they can't possibly understand. Imaging watching your child disappear before your eyes. Imagine the struggle and pain as they fight to save their child from the influences that have hijacked them and led them astray. What's your reaction to the mere citation of this pain? Blame the parents! Sorry, that is baseless, presumptive and stupid. I'll take it a step further. What happens to siblings? When parents accept and celebrate their trans child it is often to the exclusion of another. Do you have any idea what kind of damage that does? Because I've seen it firsthand several times and it isn't pretty. It's not always perfect, but we have to assume parents know their children and know what's best for them. Kids do not know what the heck they are talking about. A child does not have agency, cannot comprehend the consequences of their actions and therefore cannot consent. Neither the state nor the gender activists have the same interest and care as the parents. Only parents can stop their children from making catastrophic decisions. Yet you speak of them as if they're monsters? Withstanding cases of negligent and/or abusive parenting (including transitioning of children) the state cannot substitute for parents. The state is a guardian of last resort. An unthinking government bureaucracy cannot emulate the familial bonds that define the parent child relationship. Neither the state nor gender activists can substitute for parents. A case of projection? "Don't say gay" is a left-wing propaganda scheme. You just reframed it. All it really says is you can't teach sexual topics before the 3rd grade. BTW I got that from the radical right-wing outlet NPR. In 2 sentences you did exactly the thing you falsely accused the other side of. No one's being led astray? The massive amount of LBGTQIA+ propaganda parallel to an unprecedented surge in children identifying as trans? Sure that's completely organic, no one is leading highly impressionable youngsters astray. There's no peer pressure, no social contagion, there's no celebratory positive reinforcement. Nothing to see here folks just kids being themselves, and dumb parents not accepting them. Are you mad? This isn't just happening it's obviously happening. You're covering for it and you are complicit in the psychological and physical torture and mutilation of a generation. "Look at what you made me do" and "narcissistic fear". Are you kidding? I don't want you messing with my kid, and I'll be perfectly happy if they grow up to be free and critical thinkers. My goal is to make my kids better than me not the same as me, dummy. I cannot believe you suggested parents are blackmailing their kids with the threat of suicide. Firstly, Ms. Grossman, never said the children were even aware of the parents mental state let alone being blackmailed. Your entire premise is based on a convenient assumption. Secondly, your assertion is the most counterfactual (and hypocritical) thing I've ever heard. The suicide narrative is the other way around. We are commonly told if we don't transition kids they'll kill commit suicide. Naive parents are often presented with the ironically binary choice of having a living daughter or a dead son. That is clear and obvious emotional blackmail promulgated by both the kids, the supposed professionals, and the entire LGBTQIA+ political apparatus. If these kids were truly suicidal they should be put under observation like anyone else. The 2 of you and many of the commenters here disgust me. You're narrow minded politically driven monsters.
If you're kid comes up and says, Mom, I hate my arm I want to cut it off. Would you affirm that mental illness? Or would you steer them away from it? Now tell me the difference between cutting off genitals and arms
@@Vekikev1 Because adults have crazy ideas all the time too, especially when they're at the type to have their feelings upset at the mere existence of the LGBT.
@@TheMarsCydonia The kid will be very depressed later from being sterilized... Oh, and 70% of trans youth change their minds when they're adults. And the ones that don't may want to have kids and sex in the future... There's always a big difference between letting a kid socially transition and the medical transition. Detransitioners are happening. Not to mention Jazz Jennings was a trans youth, blockers and hormones, but her same doctor PUSHED for bottom surgery... On her penis that never fully developed. Jazz didn't have enough skin and got botched. Her doctor was just chasing clout. It was sick. Now she's sterile, botched, and depressed. I was someone that hated my body, and thought being trans was why in highschool. I just thank God I didn't end up as a detransitioner. So it looks like you don't care about trans youth. Wildly following every idea someone has isn't being supportive and a good friend. A good person will tell you when you're being mean, stupid, or petty, basically call any bs.
@@antithoughtpolice7497 Jennings is not a detransitioner. So you're asserting a link between the medical treatment and depression without any basis as you didn't provide a citation. You didn't provide one for your claim that "over half trans kids change their minds when they're adults, whether they got hormones or not" either. Particularly, a citation that over half of teenagers who medically transition change their minds once adults. You're being mean, stupid, or petty and you're spewing bs.
Jordan Peterson is a Canadian and the legal situation is different from the US, you could have checked it before. And other than attacking enormous strawmen I don't see the point of this video. What they say is how some parents can feel very distressed when a child embraces an unorthodox identity, they learned about at school or through social media, and they might be compelled by law to provide them so-called gender-affirming care. This is stressful. And yes it's stressful for the child too, but nobody talks about the parents, because some victims are worth more than others. Nowhere did Jordan say "don't transition because your parent might kill themselves". Do have dialogue and be aware that both parties' feelings might be hurt, and try your best to negotiate. That's what they're saying. Dr. Grossman isn't even against surgery in certain cases so stop painting her as some sort of a religious zealot. What is most disturbing to parents is that the family structure is collapsing. Apparently you can't criticise your children because they will commit suicide. Like the huge trans suicide wave 200 years ago (oh wait, there wasn't?). You can't tell them not to chop off their breasts, and you can't tell them not to engage in risky behaviour, alcohol, drugs, because they will become suicidal at the slightest notion of disapproval. What a bizzare world! If you don't believe in God then nobody is to blame. It's Darwinian adaptation. And part of that adaptation is for the children to understand that maintaining a good relationship with their family, even at some costs, may be beneficial, and for parents to be ready to engage in dialogue i/o abuse, which, I can bet my money on that, neither Jordan nor Miriam commend. Also reducing every experience to some sort of "reaction to stimulus" is bad logic, the abstraction doesn't account for the actual reality of the phenomenon so to speak. I'm a tolerant person if my children were to have an unorthodox gender identity then yes that would be shocking for me, because I can't give up my morals and beliefs just because those of the contemporary left are allegedly better. Similarly if your children, the OP, would join a bizzare religious cult. Would you be so tolerant then for the sake of logical consistency? Lesson of today: don't have any values, don't teach your kids anything (though they can learn whatever school has to teach them), don't criticise them, don't even feel bad whenever you fail at their upbringing because you can't be a victim by definition. Otherwise you're a violent, abusive maniac; there's nothing in between.
If a parent is sharing publicly that their child is making them suicidal, they have failed as a parent. No joke. That is beyond oversharing or even "parentifying" your children. It's just abusive. This trend of narcissistic parents of trans children using the news to air their feelings about their child's transition is disgusting. You can work your shit out with the help of a therapist, not your minor child and a fucking podium.
"You make your parents suicidal by being trans/gay" is a despicable kind of gaslighting. I'm going to contact the representatives in my area make sure they don't support this hatred
It's the same gaslighting that claims that a child will kill themselves if their self-belief (identity) is not affirmed (there is no evidence for mass suicide in un-affirmed, non-transitioning children, the majority of cases of gender dysphoria in teenage years resolve naturally with the end of puberty).
It makes sense to be suicidal in this situation. A parents deepest natural instinct is to protect their children. Seeing your child be assaulted by an anti-reality death cult that boosts near 50% self harm rates and near 100% mutilation/castration rates is a pretty massive blow to your duty to protect your child. It makes sense that failing your deepest instincts will drive a person to insanity.
As a mixed-race person who remembers the leftover bigots in the 80s and early 90s who were against "interracial marriage," the dog whistle with this argumentation is loud and clear. One objection was "think about the children of such a marriage and how difficult it is for them". To Steelman this objection the assumption is that the parents in the interracial marriage did something morally objectionable to put the child in harm's way, nevermind they never say out loud that harm's way means the bigots in society such as themselves making the objection. The second but more subtle objection is that this mixed-race child by simply existing is a threat to the well-being of the family. I know it's tautological, the parents harming the kid and the kid harming the family, but most conservative arguments are. Here this lady is latching onto this later objection to use against trans kids. That it's somehow the kid's fault for existing that is destroying the family. It was bigotry then and it's bigotry now. The one good thing about this is that when you go this low it means you have run out of valid objections to cover for your bigoted arguments. And these arguments always exclude the principals involved, interracial kids, and trans kids, it's always implicitly framed as the objector's perspective. They summed this last part up in the video (look what you made me do and narcissistic fears 7:23 )
"Some of the parents are suicidal." My brother in Christ, it was you who destroyed your relationship with your child for the utter vanity of "spiritual comfort."
*Research psychologist here...* I can't find one single study looking at suicide rates among parents of transgender youth. Not one. I'm not saying the rate is higher or lower than the general population; I'm saying there is literally no evidence either way (at least not that I can find in PsychINFO, Medline, etc.). Meanwhile there are at least 8 peer-reviewed studies on suicidality among transgender youth. So what these two are discussing is complete speculation, based on anecdotes (?), for the purpose of advancing their ideological views, plain and simple.
Sounds about right for Peterson... "If one looks at the data, one will find that hospitals do more harm than good. Hospitals are the leading cause of death." - Mr. Peterson
@@aralornwolf3140 Yeah, it's called "nosocomial infections" and his take on it just validates how he is totally lacking of any substance and behaves on the level of an adolescent. I was a Certified Sterile Technician for a while. I actually have actual education and experience in that topic and on that issue.
What do you say to the detransitioners that are permantly damage, and blame the adults for allowing a them to make such a life altering decision. There is a lot on influence and social pressure that kids do things they dont want to in order to try to just fit in. When Sam gets the emotions rattled up, it dampens logic and reason, which is bad for decision making. I wish this channel would stop showing up on my account.
Well, she peddles the pedophilia theory as well, all doctors, teachers other transpeople and what not are pedophiles, because apparently, "Progressive, comprehensive sexual education == grooming". It's mindblowing how people having been educated to hold a degree like her can derail so stupidly bad.
Stopped right after bad wig started talking. "No one wants to see a child commit suicide, but..." has a lot the same flavor as "I'm not a racist, but..." Ok, go on.
Please watch the entire video. Grossman talks about the entire John Money story and how the parents did everything to support the child. The parents thought John Money was God sent. In fact the transitioned kids considered the conversion a massive failure while Money and Medical Industry were celebrating fake success. You guys have no clue and that's the typical anti JP reaction. Contextless reaction videos.
@@TheMarsCydonia Jazz Jennings, who I've never seen mentioned on by Peterson... I followed her closely since she was 11, I watched an episode of Degrassi when Adam was on there. I hated my body A LOT as a teenager, and they gave me the idea that could help me. It didn't. I socially transitioned in high school,while I was glad I got it out of my system, I could of gotten hormone therapy if my parents didn't actually care about me and just wanted me to shut up. Jazz Jennings was one of the first kid transitioners. She got blockers and hormones... She has the same doctor the whole time. The doctor recommended and pushed Jazz to get bottom surgery. On her undeveloped penis... She didn't enough skin to work with it got botched. It's why Jazz is extremely fat now: she's extremely depressed. 70% of trans youth change their minds when they're adults. It's not baseless. This is literally child abuse. Even trans kids that DON'T change their minds may want kids of their own or to experience sex when they're older. You can't do that with blockers.
@@antithoughtpolice7497 Your comment failed to address mine. Then, if what you claim about Jennings was true (the line "she's fat now because she's literally depressed about it" makes it less than likely as she never stated any regrets about her transitioning), it would still be one person. But you didn't provide a citation. Nor did you include one for your claim that "over half trans kids change their minds when they're adults, whether they got hormones or not" Particularly, a citation that over half of teenagers who medically transition change their minds once adults.
@@antithoughtpolice7497 See the RESEARCH I have shared with you before: 'Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition "Results: We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once. At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. A total of 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. Later cisgender identities were more common among youth whose initial social transition occurred before age 6 years; their retransitions often occurred before age 10 years. Conclusions These results suggest that retransitions are infrequent. More commonly, transgender youth who socially transitioned at early ages continued to identify that way. Nonetheless, understanding retransitions is crucial for clinicians and families to help make retransitions as smooth as possible for youth."'
If a parent has those feelings because of who thier child is, it's not on the child to change who they are to help their parent. That parent need professional help to come to terms with their child's identity and love them as they should, they need therapy.
'It is not on the child to change who they are'. Are they not changing who they are by transitioning or even pre transition? When did children become autonomous individuals? Should they be able to, say, have sex or take drugs? If not why not? if you cannot empathise with a parent whose child clearly has mental health issues and wants to mutilate themselves, then why should the parents have empathy for a child's fantasies? This whole issue is bonkers. if a child refuses to abide by the sensible rules of their parents then they should most definitely make their own path in the big bad world.
A child is in a stage of development. You are not born with an identity. Letting a phase run its course without affirming gender ideology beliefs is responsible.
If a parent is suicidal because their child is trans, that just shows that Americans need greater access to mental health care no matter what their gender.
3:23 there is the idea that parents can love their kids no matter what. Even if a parent does that, in the way that the kid needs to be loved it’s doubtful that the kid would turn away.
Soo... We are NOT going to talk about parents handing down their suppressed mental traumas and the confusion coming with it through day-to day-interaction to their children?
This woman is saying that kids coming out as Trans will cause their parents to commit suicide and ostrcize them from the family. Despite no data supporting this, even if it was the case. The answer would be ACCEPTANCE on the parent's part of their trans kid, if they accepted their kid as they are , then they wouldn't be suicidal. Just like when Trans kids are able to come out and embrace their trans identity, their suicide rates go down. The only reason suicide rates are so high is because of the stigma around gender identity. If parents and society accepted this, the rate would be lower.
If trans kids would just stop being trans, and depressed people would cheer up, it would solve everything. I really don't get it, why is it so difficult to have dialogue? JP specifically is also no saint in that respect (if you listen to Dr. Grossman's talks she has a relatively moderate approach actually). Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that both children and parents may face serious mental turmoil surrounding this issue? Why do leftists have to cancel the parents, like the rightist cancel the kids?
I was someone who's parents let me socially transition. But I was verbally abusive because I couldn't get hormone blockers, I threw tantrums, had to go to asylum twice, hated my body and constantly hurt it. That was 15-17 for me. My parents were nothing but supportive. I was literally being a demon child. They didn't deserve that. And my older sister called me for advice for her friend that are parents, with their daughter going through what I went through, and she just changed her mind... There's a lot LGBT youth that also wants tokenism with non supportive parents. Believe me, I know this. My parents were good people.
I don’t believe for a second that she doesn’t know the issue there is the parents’ non-acceptance. Anyone with any kind of related education would pinpoint it there. It isn’t valid to play victim because you can’t control another person. You’re not supposed to.
I agree that you aren't supposed to control other people but the possibility exists that trans people may have multiple personality disorder and the parents are being criticized for not accepting it. Would you? I used to work with a nurse who one day was a different person. I thought I was the only one who noticed but everyone noticed. She kept her name, gender and was a very good nurse before and after this happened. She was completely oblivious that anything was different and never went for help that I am aware of. Some people with multiple personality disorder only have one alter and become the opposite gender. Look it up online.
@@pennyyeomans4115 Sorry, but your wild 'but what if...' obtuse questioning and single annecdote don't stand up to the mountainous evidence against you. Dissociative Identity Disorder (not multiple personality disorder), when it occurs (which is quite rare), usually develops as a result of trauma - a defence mechanism. Being trans is not caused by trauma, or anything else. Additionally, if kids want to transition, their mental health is rigorously assessed. So not only is DID rare, finding a trans person with DID would be incredibly rare, and finding a kid with DID who avoided diagnosis and whose alternate identity led them to transition is not just bordering on impossible, it's insulting and offensive to trans kids, people with DID, AND the professionals involved in caring for both.
4:50 "that is completely counter-factual" There are actually some cases of this happening, not 0. And not only that, that's the route we are moving towards, (or would be going towards if there wasn't any pushback). because the reality is, people on your side are 100% for this, to the extent of categorizing any pushback as "conversion therapy". because you seem to be a bit slow i will lay it out for you: It is not that they care that their parents are suffering because their kids are being their real selves. Is that the parents are suffering because their kids are being dragged in to an idiotic ideology based on fake compassion and 100% narcissism
One of the most abusive things you can do to a kid is to encourage them down the irreversible path of “gender affirmation”, potentially eliminating their ability to have kids of their own one day because of a decision they made when they were 10 years old. Children are not self actualized, they can not consent to this. And the worst thing is that once they inevitably realize their regret they will feel that they only have themselves to blame. You people are despicable for supporting this.
This decision should be made following discussions between families and their doctors. Someone else's upset feelings should have no impact on that process.
@@TheMarsCydoniamy feelings are fine. And your argument depends on the idea that the parent or doctor can actually refuse the child the “treatment” which we know is not the case. That is considered abusive and transphobic. So the decision is effectively left to the whims of a CHILD who has been seduced by a social contagion. Even if the doctor and parent both genuinely support the transition, that only means they are as foolish as the child. Children can not consent to this. There is a reason that you have to be of age to do all sorts of things that I don’t need to list. Gender transition has much more serious and lasting consequences than anything else we put an age limit on.
@@gabe8321 _"And your argument depends on the idea that the parent or doctor can actually refuse the child the “treatment” which we know is not the case"_ Citation needed. An actual citation and not a claim made by Jordan Peterson, who has a well-documented history of lying, and Miriam Grossman, who has a history of misrepresenting the bans on conversation therapy. Both have characterized bans on conversion therapy has having to indulge whatever children asks but there is not a single law written this way.
@@magickmarck trans activists (which includes academics, teachers, doctors....all adults who should know better but who push this ideology on children).
Where’s the study showing these terrible parents who don’t want their children to live their best happiest lives? My nephews trans, he is alive today because he was able to transition. He had the full support of the family (even his Uber Christian parents) because we love him and wanted him alive. I was one of the first people he told last year when he got engaged at 26! Are there some people who regret transitioning yes, their stories should be studied too. But those studies shouldn’t dictate everyone’s storyline.
Lots of groomer apologists here with childish view points. Not surprising since this commentary video was made possible by someone with a childish mentality. Milestones never accomplished. Projection. Projection and more projection. A new low for The Majority Report absolutely.
Anyone who threatens suicide because their children do not do what they approve of is clinically Narcissistic, and/or Borderline. My mother did this to me repeatedly throughout my childhood. If your parent is like this, you may have a narcissistic parent, and the abuse they re inflicting on you is NOT in your head, it is all too real. The ONLY option is to cut off all personal contact with the parent in question. If you think you might have a narcissistic parent, there are great resources online to help describe your parents' behaviors and make sense of their seeming irrationality. You are NOT alone.
And what do you have to say about children told to threaten suicide or therapists encouraging this threat because their parents won’t give them what they want? This is dangerous and wrong.
And what if they are genuinely suicidal? You're talking about a specific behaviour that was not the subject matter of their discussion. Borderline / Narcissistists who make suicidal threats don't do it in order to get professional help / support but to manipulate the victim and gain control over the situation. They are talking about parents who genuinely feel like their mental state is deteriorating, and want to seek help through therapy / community, but they can't because they are the bad guys. You can ask Jordan whether he approves of abusive behaviour and you can guess the answer. Stop thinking that everyone is so malevolent, they aren't.
Here's how you can tell they are about to lie. They say, "no one is talking about the fact ...." No one is talking about it because it's not happening because it's not a fact.
Yes but if she says she had clients like this then it maybe there's the slightest chance that she's not making it up? We're not talking about epidemiology but whether or not the phenonmenon exists
But nothing to say about Chad and Lory Daybell who used their Christian/Mormon beliefs to decided murdering for insurance money was ok and murdering their children was ok because God said so. 🤦♂️
I wish both sides of these arguments would talk like adults when they disagree. All these things just become heated arguments and it just becomes an opinion power struggle. It’s so silly.
peterson is a serial fabricator and serial liar. He lied that he would face imprisonment should he not respect someone's preferred pronouns. He was never compelled to use any speech and could simply address people by their proper name if he objects to using their pronouns. Compelled speech is nothing new: food and drug labelliing is compelled speech as is swearing allegiance to the crown in citizenship ceremonies in Canada. peterson appears not to know when he is lying which in itself is bizarre.
1. She wasn't talking about kids who grow up to be pieces of shit. She's talking about the divide between parents and kids that may permanently ruin their relationship over a disagreement involving the trans issue. 2. Parents have had their children taken away from them over a disagreement about whether their child is truly trans. This is partially why legislation barring surgical and hormonal intervention is being proposed and passed in many places. The issue is about whether that level of transition is the right course of action, and more importantly whether or not a child can even consent to that decision at such a young age given the ramifications of such a decision. The legislation is not about hating trans people or taking away their rights. 3. The "Don't Say Gay" bill did not bar a teacher from saying that they had a husband or wife. It barred any classroom instruction in K - 3rd grade about gender identity or sexuality, or from any classroom instruction that is not age appropriate. You might notice that doesn't stop a gay teacher from mentioning their husband to their students. 4. Parent's aren't concerned about their children not being exactly like them. They are worried about state overreach, and public employees, deciding they know how better to raise the parent's children than do the parent's themselves. Schools are public institutions that should answer to the public. Parental rights are about being able to raise one's children as one sees fit, outside of abuse in some form. 5. It is completely possible that the higher rates of suicidal ideation and homelessness we see in trans people have more to do with the mental illnesses such as depression, anxiety, addiction, etc. that we often see go hand-in-hand with gender dysphoria. It is by no means demonstrable in any way that evil parents or societal bullying is the main driver of suicidal ideation and homelessness in the trans community, though they almost certainly play some role. 6. She simply pointed out that she's met parents who become suicidal over the loss of their child due to not agreeing that they are trans. Which is a perfectly valid fear with a child. Many people who transition end up de-transitioning. It's not as if a parent is wrong for wondering about whether or not their child is truly transgender. What she did not say was that all parents are going to become suicidal when hearing their kids might be trans. 7. You guys really suck at this sort of thing.
Horrible. I have direct experience. Any parent with a trans child should support their child. Parental love prevents the problems Peterson and their guest present.
What about the problem of supporting your child being part of a anti-reality death cult ideology that boosts near 50% rates of self harm and near 100% rates of mutilation/castration of its members? Don't you think that is pretty counter-intuitive to a parents instinctual duty to protect their children? Attempting to fight against that ideology is supporting and loving their child..
One of my brother's kids is transgender. Just from my own experience, I can safely say that it hasn't "destroyed" the family one bit. Bigotry is the real destroyer of families.
I'll take it one step further than Bradley did: If you want to claim that the mere existence of trans kids would make their parents want to end it all, then maybe stop fearmongering to the point where they would have that reaction. Whether it's the kids or the hypothetical parents, these feelings are rooted in the culture of hatred and fear that *you* are perpetuating.
Ya.. but a sane and rational society logically "fears" and "Hates" anti-reality ideology death cults... And a parents deepest instinct is to protect their children.. So it makes sense that failing to protect them from being members of an ideology that boosts near 50% self harm and near 100% castration/mutilation rates would drive them to insanity.
God loves every single human being, those already dead, those who are aborted, those still living. Transgenderism is against his teachings, love between same gender is strictly prohibited. His followers are not afraid of this transgender people. In fact, if they repent and follow Jesus in all aspects. He promised Heaven. I am not afraid of them, i am just not in close contact with this kind of people. Have i had the chance, not only me but my friends would do all the possible things to save their lives from going to hell. Phobia is running away from their fear.
Convincing a child that they're responsible for the happiness and well-being of their caregiver is one of the most destructive things you can do to their psyche. Imagine going a step further and telling a child already struggling with their identity that being open about it might cause their parents to commit suicide. This is insanity. What a shameful framing of the subject.
Majority report needs to read the room. The conversation with Miriam and Peterson focused on parents lived experiences which are also valid. Emma, this a nuanced conversation and both child and parent need to have their own space to express their emotions. This is not a zero sum game, and frankly, the lack of empathy for families is concerning and does more to fuel the right-wing agenda and support for politicial pundits and politicians.
Think about it for a second. A parent commits suicide because they prefer death over accepting their child as an actual human being. How do you think that looks? How do you think you will be remembered?
"is this child going to come visit me when I'm sick in the hospital? is this child going to attend their siblings' weddings?" in our case, the answers are extremely doubtful :P
The female commentator is completely ignorant of the actual cases where a parent has been criminally prosecuted or lost parental rights for not supporting their child’s transition. Has happened in both Canada and USA.
And she'll remain completely ignorant since you couldn't name a single one of those alledgly actual cases. So people will not believe they're real. They're like any other baseless claims of the internet.
"look at what you made me do" perfectly sums up JPs & his guest's points.
Yes. They see themselves as victims. They don't take responsibility for their thoughts, feelings, words or actions. They reframe any situation to see themselves as the victims. They are the true enemies of everything Jesus stood for, who many of them claim to follow. It's as if MLK was made the figurehead of the KKK.
DARVO
@@Bansheee-p5o Who's Darvo?
@Arcadia Berger - To quote Jennifer Freyd, PhD, "DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for 'Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender.' The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim-or the whistle blower-into an alleged offender. This occurs, for instance, when an actually guilty perpetrator assumes the role of 'falsely accused' and attacks the accuser's credibility and blames the accuser of being the perpetrator of a false accusation."
@@Bansheee-p5o And/or Mommy Dearest
So much easier to question the character of those you disagree with rather than their actual points and arguments, isn't it?
When their points and arguments or so blatantly false and easily disproven, what else are you supposed to do?
@@MarkyMarcSpector What's your evidence against the scientific observation that most cases of gender dysphoria in teens resolve naturally without intervention once puberty is lived through?
@@KangMinseok most is not all, and nobody is arguing that trans people are a majority group. The basic issue is caring whether a minority groups rights matter or not. Treat people like people, with agency over their own identity. This is not a war on cis straight people...
@@getmotivated1707 no one is supposed to have a right to 'gender', it's a social construct generated by the social community. We also don't give "special" individuals the right to dictate that their random pieces of paper is now suddenly worth 5,000 bucks (money as a social construct). I fundamentally disagree that any individual person should have such a right at law and dictate this social construct upon the community as if it were an individual, inherent property. The only social construct we allow this for is that of 'religion' - I vehemently disagree with the attempt at turning 'gender' into a pseudo-religion(s) where people can enter or exit based on self-conviction alone. By its nature, your 'gender', like your socially constructed 'beauty' or 'race', only exists through the perceptions of others of you. To entitle you at law to dictate perception is a blatant violation of the human right of everyone else to freely express their perception of both social and physical reality.
@@KangMinseok good points, which is why agency over ones OWN identity is paramount, politics has no business in it, and rights extend outward from the individual, their boundary is other people's rights. We agree more than you think if all you've said above stands. Where we seem to disagree is which views are considered the "right" views. I believe it should not matter, no opinion is worth more than another, and my line is drawn at "infringing on basic human rights" as far as weighing them up is concerned because I don't believe I am without bias, and laws or charters of rights have to be precise. They have to cover EVERYBODY. Excluding groups of people based on your religious views or ideology is short sighted, because what happens when the other side is in charge? Suddenly it might be your rights that are up for debate, surely you'd want laws and rules and rights to be very basic and clear? It's a very simple issue for me on that basis, and I think a lot of people are getting caught up in an us vs them distraction, either human rights for all humans is a deal breaker for you, or it's not. Even if you don't like or understand them.
I am sorry that you are not ready to hear the truth about what happens to some families due to the bad counseling advice of people we are supposed to trust. I thought Jordan and his guest was spot on in educating the public about what can go wrong.
The truth is the thing supported by the data, actually.
What Peterson is talking about is traditionally called a "lie".
Andrew Wakefield did literally the same thing, and thankfully we managed to cut him off before his views became doctrine like John Money's views did. Being autistic, I will likely be fighting Wakefield's lies for the rest of my life.
Jordan Peterson was a clinical psychiatrist and when it comes to bad counselling advice, just listen to his attitude to 'unsophisticated' adolescent rape victims.
peterson never provides any data to support his claim that those who transition have long term complications. He simply makes up such a scenario and accepts it as real. Just because one can imagine something or someone doesn''t make those things exist. I can imagine a Grich who stole Christmas but that is not proof such a Grinch in fact exists.
I Mean, the last time you had him on, he was "pushing back" on the definition of rape and trying to define a woman's rights as though she were property. And that video has over 1 million views, so it doesn't surprise me at this point. He might as well espouse 6th century view points
Peterson came on this show? How do I find it on TH-cam?
@@TyroneBiggums789 They mean 'had him on' as clips to react to, just as they did here. 🥰
...The right wing think of themselves as victims. They don't take responsibility for their thoughts, feelings, words or actions. They reframe any situation to see themselves as the victims.
...They are the true enemies of everything Jesus stood for, who many of them claim to follow. It's as if MLK was made the figurehead of the KKK.
@@TyroneBiggums789They were talking about a video clip, not JP in person.
I remember that clip. He basically said the only way to prevent rape is to be next to a man who won’t rape you… like geez I never thought of that before.
And when pushed back he said men in your family as if men with families never rape… that guy is ridiculous. The smallest bit of research on abuse debunks him.
Well, that’s super Old Testament of him
Peterson is talking about a case in Canada where the father did receive jail time during a court dispute over his child receiving gender affirming care. It was not because he dared to oppose the care. It was because he repeatedly violated a publication ban that was put in place to protect the child's identity.
Jordan just has to much common sense for these air heads. He's in Canada look up the laws.
That guy thats commenting is full of hate
There are no Canadian laws that make it criminal to voice opinions opposed to transitioning. No laws exist in Canada that makes it criminal not to use a person's chosen pronouns. peterson simply lies.
You tell people to "look up the laws" yet you provide no such laws that back up peterson's claims. There are no Canadian laws which criminalise speech questioning transition.
Thank god Jordan Peterson and others like him. This world needs more people like them
Oh yes, the world certainly needs more hateful bigots, that'll help things! /smdh
No we don't. We don't need more people to hate on a particular group of people, ESPECIALLY not people who think they need to be capable of surfing on their title for this long while spouting such fucking nonsense.
It should be a felony to do that to kids. If an adult wants to on their own dollar that's fine.
Well we know you don’t actually believe that. Cause people are shitty towards trans adults all the friggin’ time
To do what to kids, exactly? What are you asserting is being done?
I'm not a big Jordan Peterson fan but the hatred spewed against him and Grossman by these two is over the top.
Absolutely. Sam & friends are over the top idiots. Also they completely prove jbp and her right when she demands her doctors license be revoked. Lol.
You really need to consider the hate coming FROM Peterson. I wouldn't have believed such a thing was possible, but this is a new low.
Nah l take dude. Peterson can get boned.
peterson and grossman make up stories and lie in order to make the difficult life of transgenders that much more difficult. Not enough hatred can be directed at these two vicious hateful individuals.
People trained in psychology are very good at making you feel like shit if they want to.
No. Only the ones like Jordan Peterson who should be struck off.
Toxic people will gravitate to fields, positions, and areas of knowledge that allow them to manipulate and dominate people more effectively
Yeah I see them all the time just throw it back in their face one of them slammed his door on me telling people in the next room hes untreatable he's not even crazy and he knows it he keeps saying it's the meds it's the meds I can't work with him .....news flash it's still the meds 20 years later same problems different idiots .
No they are not. Good, actual psychologists or psychiatrists know that publicly showing how fucking biased they are, and how eager they would be to have this bias interfere in their treatment should not be able to still hold on to that title, just like how Jordan Peterson was requested to stop using his title for being so hateful.
I've not had a therapist doing what you claim they can do, but if I did feel bad, it is because I got a very serious task to work on, and it was something that could make me uncomfortable, or it was something that pressed me on a new issue I overlooked. Not deliberate, but meant to help me grow or combat a problem.
This woman is just a sick and twisted human being.
That is true of all humans, though. That is why growing up means learning to manage your own emotions and understanding that nobody can MAKE you feel like anything, without your consent and cooperation. Recreational victimhood is just narcissism in disguise.
Truth isn't Phobia
Problem is, neither Peterson nor the woman he's talking to are telling the truth. Far from it.
@@weirdo82 actually they are telling the truth
@@josephbarpaulomoises4977 AGAIN, except they're not.
@weirdo82 You sound triggered, like the hosts of this channel.
@@weirdo82 Oh but they are. But you're too brainwashed to see it, mate. Keep injecting those kids with drugs meant for chemical castration, Big Brother's truth to be sure
I was skeptical of jorpson years ago and boy was that skepticism well placed.
Some more news really eviscerated him
Jorpson! Love it! I call him Jorpy Jomp, but Jorpson is amazing.
yeah cody did a Fantastic job
Cody Johntson is just a shill and a puppet for big Warmbo...
These days, he's looking like a confused monstrosity
Some More News is amazing
If gender affirming care is therapy and providing support, I’m all for it. But if it’s giving children life altering surgery that has a high percentage of issues, then… no. If I try to think about myself when I was 16 compared to now at 31. Like no.
Children do not get sex change surgery. grossman and peterson might not say children are having surgery directly but they imply it. A couple of disingenuous liars.
Jordan Peterson is a national treasure
If nations value shit.
Here's where I miss Sam's impressionist skills. His "Peterson" is unmatched.
Er….Michael Brooks?
@@jcleaverchamberlinjr Right. I came too late to MR to be sufficiently aware of him - excuse me.
You mean his pathetic and childish impression?
Lol I like his and Hasanabi's, too
@@stevenmccormack6263 we've found our JP fanboi!
Jordan peterson again not understanding how parents love their child. His poor daughter, no wonder she dated andrew tate.
She dated Andrew Tate?
Lol I'm not trans but I am atheist and my mom is completely distraught over the fact that I'm atheist but she doesn't get to tell me how to live my life and even if she was feeling suicidal I'm sorry, tough s*** you don't get to control other people and you don't get to be pissed off and depressed about other people's decisions for their own lives.
Agreed, I am not telling my kid they cant be trans Im just saying I dont agree. They are free to be who they are. But that same freedom gives me the permission to not have to agree with it. The difference here too is that religion is rubbish as is this gender ideology. Yo believe something I just dont believe
@@cassandramcfadyen1988 but you are wrong for disagreeing with them. If they tell you that they are trans then they are correct and you are wrong for not agreeing with them
Just like with my mom she can disagree with me being atheist all she wants but she is incorrect. God doesn't exist. If your kids are trans then they are trans whether you agree or not. If you disagree with them you are incorrect
Freedom does not mean you're entitled to incorrect information. Flat earthers are free to think that the Earth is flat but they're still incorrect. Theists are allowed to believe in a God but they are still incorrect you can think that your kids are not trans but you are still incorrect. You can be it jerk as much as you want but you are still incorrect and you would be a very ignorant jerk to your child if you disagree with them about being trans
You might think that this discussion about gender is rubbish but you are wrong. Any biologists will tell you that you are wrong. Sex is not a binary in biology in any way shape or form and gender is also not a binary in any way shape or form. I mean before we could do DNA test to actually see what chromosomes a person has if you had an intersex individual that identified as a gender contrary to what the appear to be then they are correct when they identify as a different gender and you are wrong and insisting on what gender they are. Your gender identity is in your brain and your brain is influenced by so many different things during development so yes you can have a person with the incorrect brain development in the incorrect body. Biology is not perfect and you're an absolute fool to think that it is and you are an absolute fool to not understand that your gender identity is dependent on so many factors and it's not just your chromosomes. When you have intersex conditions that you can visibly see or visibly test for then why is it so difficult to think that there might be things in only the brain that are making a gender discrepancy? You might think this is rubbish but that only demonstrates your lack of understanding
@@UlexiteTVStoneLexite Perfect example. 'Flat earthers are free to think that the Earth is flat but they're still incorrect ' As is my child. They may "Feel" something that isn't true. You're not saying anything I haven't already heard a million times Still doesn't make it right. The point is That I don't love them less because of what they feel. But They love me less because of what I feel. right???
@@cassandramcfadyen1988 if you were the one that is incorrect then you were the one that is incorrect. If your kid is a flat-earther and loves you less because you're not a flat-earther they are the one that is incorrect. However if your kid is trans and you don't believe them you are the one that is incorrect.
Regardless of if my mom agrees or likes it or not she is wrong when she is upset over the fact that I am atheist. What matters is reality and if your opinions don't reflect with reality then you are the one that is incorrect
In this topic you are the one that is wrong. It's not about believing something or not, it's facts and evidence. The facts demonstrate that you are the one in the wrong here. Sorry if you don't like reality but, tough shit
@@cassandramcfadyen1988 gee, I can’t imagine why your kid wants nothing to do with you.
Leave children alone.
Thank you ❤️
As a recovering addict I can tell you Jordan..Mr.moral judge is still a benzo junky.I can see he is still using benzos to get through life...not his rules nor books.
100%! im 5+ years clean but used to do alllll the drugs, and yeah JP has clearly been vibing again lately haha
My theory was that it was brain damage due to the abuse and the insane procedure he used to get rid of them but I am beginning to think it's both that and him going back to them.
I agree. People develop a tolerance and dependence on benzodiazepines very quickly and if you are someone who has been addicted to them for decades like Peterson the amount you would be taking would be gargantuan. His rapid detox which he used to try to fix his addiction without having to do any work or go to treatment didn't work, because it doesn't work and that's why it is not allowed in almost every country besides Russia. Taking life advice and looking up to an active valium addict because he promises that fascism will lead to legal rape, and maybe even, a sex slave provided to men by the gov't. Sounds about alt. right doesn't it?
@@generationofswine-ge5rw I uses benzos to help me get off of opiates..lol...and the benzo withdrawel was a MONSTER .A full month of suicidal hell.The entire time one takes benzos..the brain stops producing all of the chemicals that make us feel good..human..coping chemicals.Trying to quit cold Turkey after years of abuse must have been actual hell.Cold Turkey in RUSSIA..lol. Being that he was having seizures for a month feeling suicidal..the world being BLACK for a month waiting for his brains production of dopamines ..seratonins and endorphins..well..he did not pull it off.None of his self help rules helped either..He is still a junky projecting his self hatred towards others...most likely he is picking on the ones that attract him the most. You decide from what he is misdirecting as hardline conservatives do when hiding their own ghosts.
jordan is slowly transforming into skeletor
Nahhh, not buff enough
Well he’s already Red Skull so there’s that.
Yasssss!!!! That man is NOT sober!
He isn't cool enough
He can't be Skeletor because Donald Rumsfeld is Skeletor.
Disturbing guest? She's a doctor.
Yes so it's Jordan Peterson 😂😂... what's your point?
*That's what makes it disturbing*, derp
Argument from authority. BZZZT thanks for playing.
She's actually a very renowned child psychiatrist. Just saying.
Don't you think that's worrying?Perhaps Jeffrey Masson had a point about the psychiatrists he met who were just 'awful human beings', and the harm they could do to vulnerable people.
I've been pointing out for over a year now that in order for Peterson to keep getting clicks, he needs to keep getting more and more extreme, or his fans will get bored. Just look at his trajectory over the last couple of years.
I mean, I'm largely a fan of him based on his original book, Maps of Meaning in 1999, and his other books are great as well, but I would agree he is getting more and more conservative on TH-cam, especially after signing on with the Daily Wire. I agree with a lot of the things said in this episode, (I am in favor of banning puberty blockers/hormone therapy for anyone under 18 and don't think there is any sane reason to allow that) but I would again agree that his channel is so political that even I, a longtime follower of him, am getting a little annoyed with the obvious political party line he's advertising to (straying from the informative psychology talks like he used to do).
I suggest to anybody critical of Jordan to watch his original phycology lectures, read his first book, and just note how much he has changed. Sure, he has been taken over by politics recently, but his roots are very informative and he is a very smart person. There is a lot to be learned from this incredible person's original work.
I think his decline is natural and not feigned.
"Oh, won't someone think of the parents!.. but only in regards to this issue. Screw them when it comes to a basic social welfare nets for poor or struggling parents."
Or when disability-poverty leaves some ppl abandoned in suffering so that they'd request the 'exit w assist option', in Canada, if I'm not mistaken.
Or the ones who have to bury their children after a mass shooting. I'll bet those parents want to add a few things to all of these "parents bill of rights" so many states are pushing through.
Some of this take is disingenuous, ad hominem, and projection. Same as what they would say about Peterson...
Didn't hear David Reimers name come up once.
Blaming suicidality of the parent on the kid.
Incorrect. Blaming suicidality of the entire Reimer family, on the narcissistic monster that caused it to wakefield himself into fame and fortune, namely Dr. John Money
I love jordan peterson. Listening to him without judgement has made me grow up so much.
Now finish the process...and OUTGROW him by thinking for yourself.
Yep, lots of people lacking good judgement around.
@@yew2oob954 I’ve always thought for myself, however I’m able to learn from others too. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive.
@@frankbailey7337 If that were true you would see Peterson for the grifter that he is. You have not started to think for yourself.
@@yew2oob954 he speaks facts. You dont.
It must suck to have such a transactional relationship with love, as some people seem.
This is a tale as old as time... So JBP should be fully aware of it since he's so fascinated by archetypes. As the parent of a trans child (speaking from the perspective of a child raised in the Mormon church) when children discover and express their own TRUE personality/ identity, if it doesn't meet the expectations of bigoted and judgemental parents who then shun their children, then it's not inexplicable that the child (now an adult) won't take care of you in your elderly years or come to family get togethers, or even want to talk to you.
I was utterly rejected when my family found out that I didn't believe in the LDS religion. So, I ran away from home at 15 for a few years. It was not good for my mother's mental health but it did wonders for me and my mental health and allowed me to find myself fully. It was far from ideal but it was better in the long run for everybody that I wasn't forced to live a lie!
My children will never know that experience because my ego isn't inflated to the point that my children HAVE to be the people that I DEMAND they be... They just have to be themselves! Why? Because I love THEM for who they are!
Yeah but no. Being who you are is not the same as choosing your sex. Some things are just to be accepted. You are a male or you are a female.
Ask your cells - are they XX or XY?
@@peetstf6654 wow, buddy. You're understanding of biology clearly didn't extend beyond high school. Sexuality is far more complicated than chromosomes and is not a binary. Not to mention the distinction between biology, physiology, and social constructs.
@@CaptPeon Wow buddy. 'Choosing your sex' can't be done and isn't more complicated than basic biology. I assume you can't quite get your head around that.
How you feel about your sex doesn't interfere with what sex you are. It interferes with your perception of your sex. But hey, your great effort to sound well educated falls on deaf ears son.
@@peetstf6654 do you know why I sound well educated? Because I am. You clearly didn't understand anything I said... Which implies that you are not.
@@CaptPeon I really, really doubt that.
I saw the thumbnail and thought "oh look, a female version of jordan peterson." And then i heard her speak and all suspensions were confirmed.🤣
What's up with that hair ?
I thought it was AI drag.
Ah so we got a glimpse at Peterson after transition
I thought she was Betsy Devos in the thumbnail so was expecting a dumb take, just not THIS dumb AND destructive. Xx
@@cathyosbourne6986 I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I really thought it was some weird thought experiment he was exposing us all to
at about the 5:19 mark the human with longer hair is suggesting that children (who cannot comprehend the affects of any life long 100% irreversible procedures) should be able to be having "gender affirming care" (un-tested drugging and mutilation) without their parents consent, am I correct in that assumption? Genuinely curious, maybe someone could help me out, just trying to see both sides.
Peterson appears to have aged 400 years during the last few months. What goes around comes around.
Grossman spits facts. Love it!
*_Won't someone think of the poor, narcissistic, bigoted parents who are upset because their kid rejects their hateful bs!?_*
Calling reality "hateful bs" is a bit much, don't you think...
No, that's always the simple-minded surface-level argument rabid TRA's n progressive drones reflexively repeat.
Peterson and Grossman are talking about the liberal open-minded parents who are still concerned about their lonely depressed dysphoric child who may simply eventually grow out of their dysphoria like many lesbian n gay men do, being fast-tracked into something permanent they may regret.
Ask yourself why the Tavistock Clinic shut down? But parents can't even speak up about any reasonable small concerns for fear of smeared as bigots.
That produces great anxiety cuz they wanna be sure their child some of whom may also be wishy washy and flaky kids on many other things in their life, is making the right decision for something so drastic. It's not bigotry, it's a natural parents instinct.
There are numerous de-transitioners w/ permanent physical changes. no breasts, deep voices,
Have any of you listened to what any of the detransitioners have said? And hey if we're going to accuse somebody of saying something why don't we try to make sure that they actually said it?
Yes, there are many reasons families become estranged. That is not a revelation nor is it a rebuttal. Furthermore, saying that "straight people can be pieces of sh*t on their own" is completely out of context. So, what's your point? What's the comparison? in the provided clip, neither of them said gender issues were the only reason for anything. In a conversation about a specific issue they are going to talk about the ramifications of that issue. Common sense is not to assume that's to the exclusion of other causes, factors etc. Furthermore, Ms. Grossman is quite obviously talking about her professional experience and observations dealing with this specific issue. By the left's own metrics those are valid. It's the left that elevates the subjective to fact. In leftist parlance this is "lived experience" and its synonym "experiential knowledge"!
The fact that some states have taken a stand against trans ideology doesn't negate or disprove what happens elsewhere. The term "anti-trans bill" is your hyperbolic opinion! Many of those bills were passed to protect children from mutilation. Others protect women's sports and/or other areas reserved for women. More importantly, these bills are a reaction to the insanity that is gender ideology. These kinds of laws weren't a thing even a few years ago. The trans movement pushed the envelope to the limits and now there's a reaction.
You conveniently omitted that Jordan Peterson is Canadian. He came to prominence because of Canada's specific attempt to compel pronoun speech. Canada has made legal changes that make it possible to separate children from their parents. Canada has also jailed at least one father over his objections to transitioning his daughter. And, they are continuing to persecute him after the fact. This all took place under the infamous C-16 law which proponents insisted wouldn't result in such things. Closer to home, California, which is by far the most populated state in the US is indeed seeking legislation that would allow them to trans kids without parental consent. There's even a case of a mother absconding to CA to trans her child without the father's consent. Washington state is pursuing a similar course. Beyond direct legislation, it's clear that the administrative state and schools in particular have been indoctrinating and grooming children into gender ideology. There is no other explanation for the "Gender Bread Person" or the "Gender Unicorn". Under the circumstances, I think what he said about parents fearing legal and by extension other reprisal is plenty fair.
Frankly, I think Dr. Grossman is right. No one is really talking about what this does to the rest of the family. Parents create children, care for them, work their buts off to support them. Real parents know a child better than they know themselves. So, when a child claims they're something the parents know they aren't, how are they supposed to feel? According to you, they're allowed only 1 thing, blind affirmation. Of course, gender confusion is only the first step. It may very well lead to indelible changes to both their mind and body. Imagine a parent forced to watch as their child changes themselves in ways they can't possibly understand. Imaging watching your child disappear before your eyes. Imagine the struggle and pain as they fight to save their child from the influences that have hijacked them and led them astray. What's your reaction to the mere citation of this pain? Blame the parents! Sorry, that is baseless, presumptive and stupid.
I'll take it a step further. What happens to siblings? When parents accept and celebrate their trans child it is often to the exclusion of another. Do you have any idea what kind of damage that does? Because I've seen it firsthand several times and it isn't pretty.
It's not always perfect, but we have to assume parents know their children and know what's best for them. Kids do not know what the heck they are talking about. A child does not have agency, cannot comprehend the consequences of their actions and therefore cannot consent. Neither the state nor the gender activists have the same interest and care as the parents. Only parents can stop their children from making catastrophic decisions. Yet you speak of them as if they're monsters?
Withstanding cases of negligent and/or abusive parenting (including transitioning of children) the state cannot substitute for parents. The state is a guardian of last resort. An unthinking government bureaucracy cannot emulate the familial bonds that define the parent child relationship. Neither the state nor gender activists can substitute for parents.
A case of projection? "Don't say gay" is a left-wing propaganda scheme. You just reframed it. All it really says is you can't teach sexual topics before the 3rd grade. BTW I got that from the radical right-wing outlet NPR. In 2 sentences you did exactly the thing you falsely accused the other side of.
No one's being led astray? The massive amount of LBGTQIA+ propaganda parallel to an unprecedented surge in children identifying as trans? Sure that's completely organic, no one is leading highly impressionable youngsters astray. There's no peer pressure, no social contagion, there's no celebratory positive reinforcement. Nothing to see here folks just kids being themselves, and dumb parents not accepting them. Are you mad? This isn't just happening it's obviously happening. You're covering for it and you are complicit in the psychological and physical torture and mutilation of a generation.
"Look at what you made me do" and "narcissistic fear". Are you kidding? I don't want you messing with my kid, and I'll be perfectly happy if they grow up to be free and critical thinkers. My goal is to make my kids better than me not the same as me, dummy.
I cannot believe you suggested parents are blackmailing their kids with the threat of suicide. Firstly, Ms. Grossman, never said the children were even aware of the parents mental state let alone being blackmailed. Your entire premise is based on a convenient assumption. Secondly, your assertion is the most counterfactual (and hypocritical) thing I've ever heard. The suicide narrative is the other way around. We are commonly told if we don't transition kids they'll kill commit suicide. Naive parents are often presented with the ironically binary choice of having a living daughter or a dead son. That is clear and obvious emotional blackmail promulgated by both the kids, the supposed professionals, and the entire LGBTQIA+ political apparatus. If these kids were truly suicidal they should be put under observation like anyone else.
The 2 of you and many of the commenters here disgust me. You're narrow minded politically driven monsters.
Thank you
You are simply lying about Canada. No one is compelled by law to use someone's chosen pronouns.
If you're kid comes up and says, Mom, I hate my arm I want to cut it off. Would you affirm that mental illness? Or would you steer them away from it? Now tell me the difference between cutting off genitals and arms
One is fictional scenario, the other is a scenario that upsets your feelings and you'd prefer the kid to die?
@@TheMarsCydonia Why do you think it's fictional scenario. Kids have crazy ideas all the time.
@@Vekikev1 Because adults have crazy ideas all the time too, especially when they're at the type to have their feelings upset at the mere existence of the LGBT.
@@TheMarsCydonia The kid will be very depressed later from being sterilized... Oh, and 70% of trans youth change their minds when they're adults. And the ones that don't may want to have kids and sex in the future...
There's always a big difference between letting a kid socially transition and the medical transition.
Detransitioners are happening. Not to mention Jazz Jennings was a trans youth, blockers and hormones, but her same doctor PUSHED for bottom surgery... On her penis that never fully developed. Jazz didn't have enough skin and got botched. Her doctor was just chasing clout. It was sick. Now she's sterile, botched, and depressed.
I was someone that hated my body, and thought being trans was why in highschool. I just thank God I didn't end up as a detransitioner. So it looks like you don't care about trans youth. Wildly following every idea someone has isn't being supportive and a good friend. A good person will tell you when you're being mean, stupid, or petty, basically call any bs.
@@antithoughtpolice7497 Jennings is not a detransitioner. So you're asserting a link between the medical treatment and depression without any basis as you didn't provide a citation.
You didn't provide one for your claim that "over half trans kids change their minds when they're adults, whether they got hormones or not" either.
Particularly, a citation that over half of teenagers who medically transition change their minds once adults.
You're being mean, stupid, or petty and you're spewing bs.
Jordan Peterson is a Canadian and the legal situation is different from the US, you could have checked it before. And other than attacking enormous strawmen I don't see the point of this video. What they say is how some parents can feel very distressed when a child embraces an unorthodox identity, they learned about at school or through social media, and they might be compelled by law to provide them so-called gender-affirming care. This is stressful. And yes it's stressful for the child too, but nobody talks about the parents, because some victims are worth more than others. Nowhere did Jordan say "don't transition because your parent might kill themselves". Do have dialogue and be aware that both parties' feelings might be hurt, and try your best to negotiate. That's what they're saying. Dr. Grossman isn't even against surgery in certain cases so stop painting her as some sort of a religious zealot. What is most disturbing to parents is that the family structure is collapsing. Apparently you can't criticise your children because they will commit suicide. Like the huge trans suicide wave 200 years ago (oh wait, there wasn't?). You can't tell them not to chop off their breasts, and you can't tell them not to engage in risky behaviour, alcohol, drugs, because they will become suicidal at the slightest notion of disapproval. What a bizzare world! If you don't believe in God then nobody is to blame. It's Darwinian adaptation. And part of that adaptation is for the children to understand that maintaining a good relationship with their family, even at some costs, may be beneficial, and for parents to be ready to engage in dialogue i/o abuse, which, I can bet my money on that, neither Jordan nor Miriam commend. Also reducing every experience to some sort of "reaction to stimulus" is bad logic, the abstraction doesn't account for the actual reality of the phenomenon so to speak. I'm a tolerant person if my children were to have an unorthodox gender identity then yes that would be shocking for me, because I can't give up my morals and beliefs just because those of the contemporary left are allegedly better. Similarly if your children, the OP, would join a bizzare religious cult. Would you be so tolerant then for the sake of logical consistency? Lesson of today: don't have any values, don't teach your kids anything (though they can learn whatever school has to teach them), don't criticise them, don't even feel bad whenever you fail at their upbringing because you can't be a victim by definition. Otherwise you're a violent, abusive maniac; there's nothing in between.
Ironic, considering I saw the thumbnail and thought Jordan Peterson dressed in drag and did an interview skit with himself.
😂
The assault on reality by T activists is amazing
If a parent is sharing publicly that their child is making them suicidal, they have failed as a parent. No joke. That is beyond oversharing or even "parentifying" your children. It's just abusive. This trend of narcissistic parents of trans children using the news to air their feelings about their child's transition is disgusting. You can work your shit out with the help of a therapist, not your minor child and a fucking podium.
What about kids who shame their parents on social media etc. i/o of coping by themselves?
I'm trans. I took care of my mom for 13 years through her decline. She loved me to the end
I doubt Matt walsh will do the same for his mom
Actually, Matt Walsh is very close with his large and wonderful family!
Dr. Grossman is spot on!
"You make your parents suicidal by being trans/gay" is a despicable kind of gaslighting. I'm going to contact the representatives in my area make sure they don't support this hatred
It's the same gaslighting that claims that a child will kill themselves if their self-belief (identity) is not affirmed (there is no evidence for mass suicide in un-affirmed, non-transitioning children, the majority of cases of gender dysphoria in teenage years resolve naturally with the end of puberty).
It makes sense to be suicidal in this situation. A parents deepest natural instinct is to protect their children. Seeing your child be assaulted by an anti-reality death cult that boosts near 50% self harm rates and near 100% mutilation/castration rates is a pretty massive blow to your duty to protect your child. It makes sense that failing your deepest instincts will drive a person to insanity.
Why did I know that when she said "we are all on the same page about preventing suicide" that the next word would be "but" ...
bbuuuUUUUuuuuuuut
Passive genocide is an ugly word buuuuuuuut.....
As a mixed-race person who remembers the leftover bigots in the 80s and early 90s who were against "interracial marriage," the dog whistle with this argumentation is loud and clear. One objection was "think about the children of such a marriage and how difficult it is for them". To Steelman this objection the assumption is that the parents in the interracial marriage did something morally objectionable to put the child in harm's way, nevermind they never say out loud that harm's way means the bigots in society such as themselves making the objection. The second but more subtle objection is that this mixed-race child by simply existing is a threat to the well-being of the family. I know it's tautological, the parents harming the kid and the kid harming the family, but most conservative arguments are. Here this lady is latching onto this later objection to use against trans kids. That it's somehow the kid's fault for existing that is destroying the family. It was bigotry then and it's bigotry now. The one good thing about this is that when you go this low it means you have run out of valid objections to cover for your bigoted arguments. And these arguments always exclude the principals involved, interracial kids, and trans kids, it's always implicitly framed as the objector's perspective. They summed this last part up in the video (look what you made me do and narcissistic fears 7:23 )
Haven't they heard about acceptance? Maybe if the parents are caring, there would be any family facture.
Ever heard of facts over feelings...that sex and gender are one in the same!
The real problem for parents is how society treats them.
No.
"Some of the parents are suicidal." My brother in Christ, it was you who destroyed your relationship with your child for the utter vanity of "spiritual comfort."
*Research psychologist here...* I can't find one single study looking at suicide rates among parents of transgender youth. Not one. I'm not saying the rate is higher or lower than the general population; I'm saying there is literally no evidence either way (at least not that I can find in PsychINFO, Medline, etc.). Meanwhile there are at least 8 peer-reviewed studies on suicidality among transgender youth. So what these two are discussing is complete speculation, based on anecdotes (?), for the purpose of advancing their ideological views, plain and simple.
Retired from the field. I flat-out don't believe what she is saying about suicidal parents.
These people want trans kids to commit suicide, never forget that.
Sounds about right for Peterson...
"If one looks at the data, one will find that hospitals do more harm than good. Hospitals are the leading cause of death." - Mr. Peterson
@@nsbd90now it's probably like 1 parent of a trans kid unalvied them self and they are adding the window dressing.
@@aralornwolf3140 Yeah, it's called "nosocomial infections" and his take on it just validates how he is totally lacking of any substance and behaves on the level of an adolescent. I was a Certified Sterile Technician for a while. I actually have actual education and experience in that topic and on that issue.
I’m a psychotherapist. All my clients have shitty parents. Without exception.
re: 9:00 a "trans" child is literally not being "them"selves lolololl jfc
If JP thinks trans people are mostly "confused monstrosities" than he would think that about a trans patient. Who does he still have his license?
I think he doesn't. I heard that on a progressive channel. Was it here on TMR? I think he was censured by other psychologists in Canada?
What do you say to the detransitioners that are permantly damage, and blame the adults for allowing a them to make such a life altering decision. There is a lot on influence and social pressure that kids do things they dont want to in order to try to just fit in. When Sam gets the emotions rattled up, it dampens logic and reason, which is bad for decision making. I wish this channel would stop showing up on my account.
Maybe avoiding the thought that what’s going on with one’s kids as being “terrible”, “losses” and “monstrosities” would be a good place to start…
avoiding reality is not a solution
Well, she peddles the pedophilia theory as well, all doctors, teachers other transpeople and what not are pedophiles, because apparently, "Progressive, comprehensive sexual education == grooming".
It's mindblowing how people having been educated to hold a degree like her can derail so stupidly bad.
He's been brooding in a Chinese milk farm for months you know he was going to come back extra hateful
That is so funny lmao
Stopped right after bad wig started talking. "No one wants to see a child commit suicide, but..." has a lot the same flavor as "I'm not a racist, but..."
Ok, go on.
Please watch the entire video.
Grossman talks about the entire John Money story and how the parents did everything to support the child.
The parents thought John Money was God sent.
In fact the transitioned kids considered the conversion a massive failure while Money and Medical Industry were celebrating fake success.
You guys have no clue and that's the typical anti JP reaction. Contextless reaction videos.
The John Money story is very interesting... As it destroy's Peterson's baseless fearmongering narrative.
@@TheMarsCydonia how?
@@TheMarsCydonia Jazz Jennings, who I've never seen mentioned on by Peterson...
I followed her closely since she was 11, I watched an episode of Degrassi when Adam was on there. I hated my body A LOT as a teenager, and they gave me the idea that could help me. It didn't. I socially transitioned in high school,while I was glad I got it out of my system, I could of gotten hormone therapy if my parents didn't actually care about me and just wanted me to shut up.
Jazz Jennings was one of the first kid transitioners. She got blockers and hormones... She has the same doctor the whole time. The doctor recommended and pushed Jazz to get bottom surgery. On her undeveloped penis... She didn't enough skin to work with it got botched. It's why Jazz is extremely fat now: she's extremely depressed.
70% of trans youth change their minds when they're adults.
It's not baseless. This is literally child abuse. Even trans kids that DON'T change their minds may want kids of their own or to experience sex when they're older. You can't do that with blockers.
@@antithoughtpolice7497 Your comment failed to address mine.
Then, if what you claim about Jennings was true (the line "she's fat now because she's literally depressed about it" makes it less than likely as she never stated any regrets about her transitioning), it would still be one person.
But you didn't provide a citation.
Nor did you include one for your claim that "over half trans kids change their minds when they're adults, whether they got hormones or not"
Particularly, a citation that over half of teenagers who medically transition change their minds once adults.
@@antithoughtpolice7497 See the RESEARCH I have shared with you before: 'Gender Identity 5 Years After Social Transition
"Results: We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once. At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. A total of 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. Later cisgender identities were more common among youth whose initial social transition occurred before age 6 years; their retransitions often occurred before age 10 years.
Conclusions These results suggest that retransitions are infrequent. More commonly, transgender youth who socially transitioned at early ages continued to identify that way. Nonetheless, understanding retransitions is crucial for clinicians and families to help make retransitions as smooth as possible for youth."'
If a parent has those feelings because of who thier child is, it's not on the child to change who they are to help their parent. That parent need professional help to come to terms with their child's identity and love them as they should, they need therapy.
'It is not on the child to change who they are'. Are they not changing who they are by transitioning or even pre transition? When did children become autonomous individuals? Should they be able to, say, have sex or take drugs? If not why not? if you cannot empathise with a parent whose child clearly has mental health issues and wants to mutilate themselves, then why should the parents have empathy for a child's fantasies? This whole issue is bonkers. if a child refuses to abide by the sensible rules of their parents then they should most definitely make their own path in the big bad world.
I don't think any amount of therapy is going to stop a parent from acting on their deepest parental instincts to protect their children.
A child is in a stage of development. You are not born with an identity. Letting a phase run its course without affirming gender ideology beliefs is responsible.
@@robwalker3417 No one is being mutilated. Yawn.
@@markgobrien9791 Cutting off a penis or breasts is most definitely a mutilation, according to the definition.
If a parent is suicidal because their child is trans, that just shows that Americans need greater access to mental health care no matter what their gender.
3:23 there is the idea that parents can love their kids no matter what. Even if a parent does that, in the way that the kid needs to be loved it’s doubtful that the kid would turn away.
Soo... We are NOT going to talk about parents handing down their suppressed mental traumas and the confusion coming with it through day-to day-interaction to their children?
This woman is saying that kids coming out as Trans will cause their parents to commit suicide and ostrcize them from the family. Despite no data supporting this, even if it was the case. The answer would be ACCEPTANCE on the parent's part of their trans kid, if they accepted their kid as they are , then they wouldn't be suicidal. Just like when Trans kids are able to come out and embrace their trans identity, their suicide rates go down. The only reason suicide rates are so high is because of the stigma around gender identity. If parents and society accepted this, the rate would be lower.
If trans kids would just stop being trans, and depressed people would cheer up, it would solve everything. I really don't get it, why is it so difficult to have dialogue? JP specifically is also no saint in that respect (if you listen to Dr. Grossman's talks she has a relatively moderate approach actually). Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that both children and parents may face serious mental turmoil surrounding this issue? Why do leftists have to cancel the parents, like the rightist cancel the kids?
parents that don't accept their trans kids don't kill themselves, ever, they kick their kids out, that's why there are so many homeless trans kids.
I was someone who's parents let me socially transition.
But I was verbally abusive because I couldn't get hormone blockers, I threw tantrums, had to go to asylum twice, hated my body and constantly hurt it. That was 15-17 for me.
My parents were nothing but supportive. I was literally being a demon child. They didn't deserve that. And my older sister called me for advice for her friend that are parents, with their daughter going through what I went through, and she just changed her mind...
There's a lot LGBT youth that also wants tokenism with non supportive parents. Believe me, I know this. My parents were good people.
NNOO the trans kids rject the parents mostly because of soc med innfluencers
@@georgeanthony4834 bullshit
I don’t believe for a second that she doesn’t know the issue there is the parents’ non-acceptance. Anyone with any kind of related education would pinpoint it there. It isn’t valid to play victim because you can’t control another person. You’re not supposed to.
I agree that you aren't supposed to control other people but the possibility exists that trans people may have multiple personality disorder and the parents are being criticized for not accepting it. Would you? I used to work with a nurse who one day was a different person. I thought I was the only one who noticed but everyone noticed. She kept her name, gender and was a very good nurse before and after this happened. She was completely oblivious that anything was different and never went for help that I am aware of. Some people with multiple personality disorder only have one alter and become the opposite gender. Look it up online.
@@pennyyeomans4115
Sorry, but your wild 'but what if...' obtuse questioning and single annecdote don't stand up to the mountainous evidence against you. Dissociative Identity Disorder (not multiple personality disorder), when it occurs (which is quite rare), usually develops as a result of trauma - a defence mechanism. Being trans is not caused by trauma, or anything else.
Additionally, if kids want to transition, their mental health is rigorously assessed. So not only is DID rare, finding a trans person with DID would be incredibly rare, and finding a kid with DID who avoided diagnosis and whose alternate identity led them to transition is not just bordering on impossible, it's insulting and offensive to trans kids, people with DID, AND the professionals involved in caring for both.
Grossman is right.
4:50 "that is completely counter-factual" There are actually some cases of this happening, not 0. And not only that, that's the route we are moving towards, (or would be going towards if there wasn't any pushback). because the reality is, people on your side are 100% for this, to the extent of categorizing any pushback as "conversion therapy".
because you seem to be a bit slow i will lay it out for you:
It is not that they care that their parents are suffering because their kids are being their real selves. Is that the parents are suffering because their kids are being dragged in to an idiotic ideology based on fake compassion and 100% narcissism
Jazz Jennings for example. I highly doubt he parents wanted clout, I fully believe it was their doctor.
She looks like Carvey’s Church Lady
One of the most abusive things you can do to a kid is to encourage them down the irreversible path of “gender affirmation”, potentially eliminating their ability to have kids of their own one day because of a decision they made when they were 10 years old. Children are not self actualized, they can not consent to this. And the worst thing is that once they inevitably realize their regret they will feel that they only have themselves to blame. You people are despicable for supporting this.
This decision should be made following discussions between families and their doctors.
Someone else's upset feelings should have no impact on that process.
@@TheMarsCydoniamy feelings are fine. And your argument depends on the idea that the parent or doctor can actually refuse the child the “treatment” which we know is not the case. That is considered abusive and transphobic. So the decision is effectively left to the whims of a CHILD who has been seduced by a social contagion. Even if the doctor and parent both genuinely support the transition, that only means they are as foolish as the child. Children can not consent to this. There is a reason that you have to be of age to do all sorts of things that I don’t need to list. Gender transition has much more serious and lasting consequences than anything else we put an age limit on.
@@gabe8321 _"And your argument depends on the idea that the parent or doctor can actually refuse the child the “treatment” which we know is not the case"_
Citation needed.
An actual citation and not a claim made by Jordan Peterson, who has a well-documented history of lying, and Miriam Grossman, who has a history of misrepresenting the bans on conversation therapy.
Both have characterized bans on conversion therapy has having to indulge whatever children asks but there is not a single law written this way.
Parents aren't blaming their kids for the parent feeling suicidal about this. They're faulting the groomers of their kids.
Who's grooming? Every trans person setting the example of honesty and self actualization?
@@magickmarck trans activists (which includes academics, teachers, doctors....all adults who should know better but who push this ideology on children).
@@treesart6914 how does that groom? You lost me
@@treesart6914 what ideology?
It's shows like this that give me hope society will go extinct in no time.
Where’s the study showing these terrible parents who don’t want their children to live their best happiest lives? My nephews trans, he is alive today because he was able to transition. He had the full support of the family (even his Uber Christian parents) because we love him and wanted him alive. I was one of the first people he told last year when he got engaged at 26! Are there some people who regret transitioning yes, their stories should be studied too. But those studies shouldn’t dictate everyone’s storyline.
This is the outline for every parent with BPD's reaction to their teen developing independent agency. "You're killing your mother!!"
I'm doubling down on Emma's statement.
Any child, any age. You are not responsible for your parents' happiness.
@Michael Euthanasia you definitely beat queer people
Am I missing something? I didn’t find any majorly wrong with what she said.
Does the MR ever respond to the rest of the video? Or do they just obsess over this one small clip?
@@carols4013 I don’t think so, only the clip since it fits their warped perception.
Lots of groomer apologists here with childish view points. Not surprising since this commentary video was made possible by someone with a childish mentality. Milestones never accomplished. Projection. Projection and more projection. A new low for The Majority Report absolutely.
Anyone who threatens suicide because their children do not do what they approve of is clinically Narcissistic, and/or Borderline. My mother did this to me repeatedly throughout my childhood. If your parent is like this, you may have a narcissistic parent, and the abuse they re inflicting on you is NOT in your head, it is all too real. The ONLY option is to cut off all personal contact with the parent in question. If you think you might have a narcissistic parent, there are great resources online to help describe your parents' behaviors and make sense of their seeming irrationality. You are NOT alone.
Any person who threaten suicide because I wont pretend that boys are girls is in exactly the same position though right?
And what do you have to say about children told to threaten suicide or therapists encouraging this threat because their parents won’t give them what they want? This is dangerous and wrong.
Because under no possible scenario could it be anything but when you had nothing but?
And what if they are genuinely suicidal? You're talking about a specific behaviour that was not the subject matter of their discussion. Borderline / Narcissistists who make suicidal threats don't do it in order to get professional help / support but to manipulate the victim and gain control over the situation. They are talking about parents who genuinely feel like their mental state is deteriorating, and want to seek help through therapy / community, but they can't because they are the bad guys. You can ask Jordan whether he approves of abusive behaviour and you can guess the answer. Stop thinking that everyone is so malevolent, they aren't.
FACT! Cults separate families
Here's how you can tell they are about to lie. They say, "no one is talking about the fact ...."
No one is talking about it because it's not happening because it's not a fact.
Yes but if she says she had clients like this then it maybe there's the slightest chance that she's not making it up? We're not talking about epidemiology but whether or not the phenonmenon exists
"Are they going to visit me in the hospital?"
Depends. Did you treat them badly enough that they had to cut ties with you?
Why is no one thinking about the bigots feelings?
Gross.
google is, I got a message telling me to be nice to them or lose my channel
@@f_youtubecensorshipf_nazis
Google can kiss my butt.
But nothing to say about Chad and Lory Daybell who used their Christian/Mormon beliefs to decided murdering for insurance money was ok and murdering their children was ok because God said so. 🤦♂️
I wish both sides of these arguments would talk like adults when they disagree. All these things just become heated arguments and it just becomes an opinion power struggle. It’s so silly.
I thought this was Betsy DeVoss.
There really grown ass humans out there saying, "I'm going to off myself because my kid is being who they are and not who I want them to be"???????
Absolutely. It was a regular threat by my mom. It's pretty standard with narcs or bpd.
What a sad channel this is... respect to both of these TRUE doctors who value facts and medicine... not feelings
peterson is a serial fabricator and serial liar. He lied that he would face imprisonment should he not respect someone's preferred pronouns. He was never compelled to use any speech and could simply address people by their proper name if he objects to using their pronouns. Compelled speech is nothing new: food and drug labelliing is compelled speech as is swearing allegiance to the crown in citizenship ceremonies in Canada. peterson appears not to know when he is lying which in itself is bizarre.
peterson is all about feelings.
1. She wasn't talking about kids who grow up to be pieces of shit. She's talking about the divide between parents and kids that may permanently ruin their relationship over a disagreement involving the trans issue.
2. Parents have had their children taken away from them over a disagreement about whether their child is truly trans. This is partially why legislation barring surgical and hormonal intervention is being proposed and passed in many places. The issue is about whether that level of transition is the right course of action, and more importantly whether or not a child can even consent to that decision at such a young age given the ramifications of such a decision. The legislation is not about hating trans people or taking away their rights.
3. The "Don't Say Gay" bill did not bar a teacher from saying that they had a husband or wife. It barred any classroom instruction in K - 3rd grade about gender identity or sexuality, or from any classroom instruction that is not age appropriate. You might notice that doesn't stop a gay teacher from mentioning their husband to their students.
4. Parent's aren't concerned about their children not being exactly like them. They are worried about state overreach, and public employees, deciding they know how better to raise the parent's children than do the parent's themselves. Schools are public institutions that should answer to the public. Parental rights are about being able to raise one's children as one sees fit, outside of abuse in some form.
5. It is completely possible that the higher rates of suicidal ideation and homelessness we see in trans people have more to do with the mental illnesses such as depression, anxiety, addiction, etc. that we often see go hand-in-hand with gender dysphoria. It is by no means demonstrable in any way that evil parents or societal bullying is the main driver of suicidal ideation and homelessness in the trans community, though they almost certainly play some role.
6. She simply pointed out that she's met parents who become suicidal over the loss of their child due to not agreeing that they are trans. Which is a perfectly valid fear with a child. Many people who transition end up de-transitioning. It's not as if a parent is wrong for wondering about whether or not their child is truly transgender. What she did not say was that all parents are going to become suicidal when hearing their kids might be trans.
7. You guys really suck at this sort of thing.
Horrible. I have direct experience. Any parent with a trans child should support their child. Parental love prevents the problems Peterson and their guest present.
What about the problem of supporting your child being part of a anti-reality death cult ideology that boosts near 50% rates of self harm and near 100% rates of mutilation/castration of its members? Don't you think that is pretty counter-intuitive to a parents instinctual duty to protect their children? Attempting to fight against that ideology is supporting and loving their child..
One of my brother's kids is transgender. Just from my own experience, I can safely say that it hasn't "destroyed" the family one bit. Bigotry is the real destroyer of families.
I'll take it one step further than Bradley did:
If you want to claim that the mere existence of trans kids would make their parents want to end it all, then maybe stop fearmongering to the point where they would have that reaction. Whether it's the kids or the hypothetical parents, these feelings are rooted in the culture of hatred and fear that *you* are perpetuating.
Ya.. but a sane and rational society logically "fears" and "Hates" anti-reality ideology death cults... And a parents deepest instinct is to protect their children.. So it makes sense that failing to protect them from being members of an ideology that boosts near 50% self harm and near 100% castration/mutilation rates would drive them to insanity.
God loves every single human being, those already dead, those who are aborted, those still living. Transgenderism is against his teachings, love between same gender is strictly prohibited. His followers are not afraid of this transgender people. In fact, if they repent and follow Jesus in all aspects. He promised Heaven.
I am not afraid of them, i am just not in close contact with this kind of people. Have i had the chance, not only me but my friends would do all the possible things to save their lives from going to hell. Phobia is running away from their fear.
Speaking about facts now is transphobic?
Making things up in order to impose your own Christian morality and make life difficult for transgenders wishing to transition is tansphobic.
Convincing a child that they're responsible for the happiness and well-being of their caregiver is one of the most destructive things you can do to their psyche. Imagine going a step further and telling a child already struggling with their identity that being open about it might cause their parents to commit suicide. This is insanity. What a shameful framing of the subject.
No one suggested the child should be told any such thing -- well, Emma pretended that was advocated.
The issue is when parents lose custody of their children because they refuse to pay for transition, in my opinion it's a good reason to feel depressed
@@danielv.5988 I give them credit for not feeling homicidal.
Won’t someone think of the parents?!
Imagine how this would play if the kid was black instead of trans.
Majority report needs to read the room. The conversation with Miriam and Peterson focused on parents lived experiences which are also valid. Emma, this a nuanced conversation and both child and parent need to have their own space to express their emotions. This is not a zero sum game, and frankly, the lack of empathy for families is concerning and does more to fuel the right-wing agenda and support for politicial pundits and politicians.
Are we sure that's not just Dr Laura in disguise???
Think about it for a second.
A parent commits suicide because they prefer death over accepting their child as an actual human being.
How do you think that looks? How do you think you will be remembered?
"is this child going to come visit me when I'm sick in the hospital? is this child going to attend their siblings' weddings?"
in our case, the answers are extremely doubtful :P
"a confused monstrosity"
That sums up every conservative I've ever heard explain their viewpoints
Historical facts, what a shock.
The female commentator is completely ignorant of the actual cases where a parent has been criminally prosecuted or lost parental rights for not supporting their child’s transition. Has happened in both Canada and USA.
And she'll remain completely ignorant since you couldn't name a single one of those alledgly actual cases.
So people will not believe they're real.
They're like any other baseless claims of the internet.
@@TheMarsCydonia Jeff Younger, Jeannette Cooper, Rob Hoogland
@@danielv.5988 So not a single, uh?
None of them were prosecuted and none of them lost parental "rights" that were not part of a custody dispute.