holy hell | the inextricable link between catholicism and horror
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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sources
♡ The Horrors and Hells of Hieronymus Bosch www.ncronline....
♡ An Exorcist Tells His Story by Gabriele Amorth maryourhelp.or...
♡ Doctrine of Discovery humanrights.ca...
♡ New American Bible (Revised)
♡ The Exorcist by William Peter Blatty
♡ The Sanctification of Fear: Images of the Religious in Horror Films by Bryan Stone
♡ The Devil in the American Horror Film by Amanda Whitman
♡ How Hieronymus Bosch's Hell Lives on Today
![The Catharsis of Body Horror [censored]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2VosvAUS8Ww/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Catharsis of Body Horror [censored]](/img/tr.png)
also worth noting that in “The Exorcist,” Fr. Karras is not just a priest with a crisis of faith but a well-educated *psychiatrist* who examines Regan’s case in the way that a doctor would, exploring her symptoms and running tests like telling her tap water was holy water. His main concern is that an exorcism would harm Regan further, and he even admits to his superiors that he’s not sure that the possession is genuine but it fits what is set down in the Catechism.
Not to mention that the ending is ambiguous as to if the demon was actually successfully vanquished or simply found Karras to be a more suitable host.
From all I've heard and seen of the film, it certainly seems to be a different take on the genre, even if it ironically "created" it...?
@@NIRDIAN1 oh definitely! and that ending gets even more complicated if you take Exorcist III into consideration!
Well put! Father Karras was trying to do the best for Regan - as a real father would. His lack of faith was one thing but something good took its place, his dogged determination to save Regan and help her mother through this crisis. He had to fight his own understanding - from a scientific world view to make room for the supernatural. Till the exorcism started - at which point he had seen enough to have any doubts. Re-reading the book to catch all the missed details in the movie. How he had to review other exorcism cases and the similarities and also the differences. The fact that Chris's neighbour had given her a book describing all the symptoms Regan started showing - alluding to her "performing" this. Great, excellent book. Sorry for the rant :D
and his reluctance to perform the exorcism is part of what makes him a realistic and likeable character. Most priests in religious horror are only used as a tool to make the story get to the exorcism climax as fast as possible, it makes the story boring.
Most priests are well versed scholars, and despite the cuestionable opinions some may have, they are aware that exorcisms are a very delicate subject and that they have to discard any illness before even ask for permission.
Best Christian movie : the exorcist , best Christian band : Black Sabbath
Catholics are the OG goths
This made me chuckle
There’s an analysis that the Addams family is a portrayal of how WASPS saw Latin American and Italian catholic immigrants in the US lol it makes sense
@@anacarolinamenezes8912 link?
as an irish catholic i recognised how safe i felt watching horror knowing that the narrative always said i was gonna be okay, still love horror tho
I bet you where sweating in Midnight Mass then. If you haven't seen it, Mild Spoiler, a Preist is mistakes a Vampire for a Messenger of God and spreads it's sacrament across a small New England Island.
Basically it's a metaphor for the dangers of blind faith. He isn't tricked because he doesn't believe in God, but because he wants to prove the existence of God too much. He is falling for a easy lie because it affirms everything he believes in.
I love this stuff! Your intro is particularly great and hearing the words of Catholic exorcists interested me. I wrote my master's thesis partly on medieval demonic possession and the rite of exorcism was not instituted in the church until the 15th/16th century. For people in the earlier middle ages (read: everyone between the apostles and 1500ish) there was very little you could do about demonic possession except to hope that a saint intercedes on your behalf. Confession, the eucharist, holy water, pressing the bible or a crucifix onto a possessed person's body was almost useless! This was reasoned because possession afflicted the body and not the soul. Gerald of Wales in the Gemma ecclesiastica (Jewel of the Church) talks about a guy who was afflicted by a succubus and the prayers of the ENTIRE CISTERCIAN ORDER were not sufficient to remove the demon. He also has one part where a monk keeps busting a nut during prayer bc the devil jacks him off but that's by the by. In short, those jags who claim that you need faith alone are not only politically awful, but also theologically/historically inconsistent. To the stake, heretic!
Tldr; if you were medieval and possessed by a demon, too bad!
ah yes my favorite Star Wars bounty hunter... Hieronymus Bossk
1:08 I can’t believe this is the dude that was responsible for me not being able to watch Harry Potter as a kid because we were Catholics, but doing it anyway. Now I’m not religious and I don’t plan on going back any time soon.
Great video! I had never actually realized this.
I have a complicated interest in this kind of horror, because I am a trans Christian and also a Protestant who doesn't believe in Catholic demonology. My actual beliefs about demons are limited to "some malady-causing spirits are probably out there", but I also really like medieval demonological imagery in fiction.
Also, for overtly Islamic horror, check out of the 1980s Indonesian film Satan's Slave, which is about a family being tormented by a demoness who is finally dispelled by prayer.
Could've definitely made a horror movie about a nun just by portraying the real shit that actual nuns did, especially in Ireland.
Can we count The Magdalene Sisters as a horror movie?
@@reikun86 it is pretty horrific
North American residential schools. My great grandma made it out of one. she decided to disconnect from our culture because of it. It's been a generations long negative for an entire continent of people, not just Ireland. :(
@@lowwastehighmelaninthose claims were disproven actually if you are talking about Canada
@@CalaverasRCAs far as I have known, they were not debunked, except by apologists trying to sweep it under the rug.
What authentic sources do you have that it was proven untrue? Not from apologists.
As far as I know, they found plenty of physical evidence, first hand testimony both from the mothers who had their children forcefully taken, and also from the children who survived the many horrific abuses, and other evidence that proved that it was a common practice.
especially to turn indoctrinate new generations of children to remove their native culture, and turn them into Christians & subscribe to European culture.
Thus, allowing white westerners to gradually take over or impede on their lands, as resources were discovered.
if you're wondering why the screen gets so blurry so often, WB tried to copyright claim the entire video from my use of clips from *the nun* and if it was any other movie, i may have just let it go but i can't let *the nun* win
edit: the nun won 😔
You better censor that garbage even if they don't threaten copyright
❤❤❤😊
OMG BOIZ!
You won again!
dislike fo clickbaiting with "holly hell" a name of an unrelated documentary
"lambs of god", "the wonder", and "st. maud" are all great films about the line between religious faith and hysteria/insanity. they definitely fall under the category of psychological horror, but i love films that depict how religion often drives people to do objectively insane things
especially films made from a secular viewpoint, so there is no real basis of god/heaven existing in the film, the characters are just so ardently devoted that they do unspeakable things in the name of their faith
As someone who grew up Catholic, I found the fantasy horror video game "Blasphemous" to be really intriguing. It pulls a lot of its horrific imagery and themes directly from Catholic art and practices. Stuff like relics, incorruptibles, gruesome martyrdom and penance thru self-harm are all used as inspiration for the monster designs. And the whole game has this overarching theme of guilt and penitence, and fighting against religious authority. It was one of the few properties I've seen that takes Catholicism itself as the source for the horror, instead of just being another exorcist story.
😊😊
I haven't finished Blasphemous, but as someone who also grew up catholic, I found myself drawn to it even with the religious trauma I have lol kind of cathartic
@@KatharaWaterTribe Yeah it felt very cathartic for me too! It was like it was showing me all this imagery I grew up with, but fully acknowledging the horror and harmfulness of it without hiding it behind a veil of holiness. 1
Just bought on sale, thx for the rec
I was going to talk about that game. The creators are from Andalusia so they used a lot of catholic imaginery from the Holy Week, etc.
To me most 'catholic horror' fails because it's, protestant writers from USA/UK, slapping catholic aesthetics on their own worldview and beliefs, or calling back historical anti-catholic myths? it's mostly comes from outside not inside, much less from those punching up at catholicism. like not tackling the actual church, its stories and its crimes, but just the WASP propaganda version or just, WASP themselves but gussied up in catholic costume?
I feel like Latin Americans, Italian, Spaniards, Portuguese people, Irish, and Filipinos would be better at tackling Catholicism horror because Catholicism is more prevalent over there.
Watch Catholic horror from actually Catholic-majority countries, like the Philippines, where horror is a popular genre.
As a Protestant who loves Catholic horror I think that's a fair critique.
This is probably why The Exorcist is so good. William Peter Blatty's mother was a devout catholic whose uncle was a bishop.
Exactly! Those media creations, including the imagery of Halloween, are protestant mockery of catholicism.
A big issue with the current "scary catholicism" trend in horror movies is that they nearly without fail do not understand actual Catholic demonology. The Exorcist works in part because of its incredibly well-built tension of instabillity and uncertainty, and if it really is a demon it really does behaves as one exactly because of its refusal to confirm to the priest whether or not it is or is not what it says it is. There is a good number of quotes, especial from the Desert Fathers, talking about the fact that a physical attack by demons is more or less a good thing for any Christian, it essentially means the demons are reduced to the least effective tool they have at their disposal in order to damn ones soul. Also, something something "fear of the other" applied to Catholicism by studios with often very protestant heritages.
I'm rewatching Midnight Mass and this video popping up feels very well timed haha.
I’m rewatching too! I’m making my dad watch with me because his dad was a pastor and we both have religious trauma lol
It did such a good flip of that concept of faith protecting you from corruption. **SPOILERS** The priest's faith was both a pathway for being corrupted as well as a vector to corrupt the town, with the more skeptical people in the town able to see more clearly what was happening. Many in the town embraced it outright, and others that were hesitant were pushed through religious (and more specifically Catholic) rhetoric.
midnight mass is like, TRUE religious horror. as in, it's horrifying what people will use their religion to justify doing to others.
I need to rewatch it, excellent idea.
Most of these movies are wack because they’re from a (mostly American) Protestant viewpoint. It’s hard to actually get to the core of Catholic horror if you know…you don’t actually understand Catholicism
was hoping this essay was more about catholic culture (like excessive guilt, suffering being seen as noble, and repression) goes into making a lot of good horror. like i would say julia ducornau's Raw, while not explicitly catholic or even religious in any way, is a great allegory for growing up in a catholic household. or even the wickerman, which is more explicitly catholic (or maybe church of england which is catholicism in a different font)
I never thought of Raw from a Catholic point of view, rather within the framework of puberty and patriarchal society. France being very rooted in Catholicism it makes sense though and I'd be curious to hear more about this analysis!
Same here, pretty disappointed honestly.
Make your own analysis video then.
And that’s on what? religious trauma 💅
yeah we get it, you were forced to attend church on Sunday mornings
@@padlily2485lmao buddy thinks being emotionally abused by an entire community to the point you lose your sense of identity and become terrified of being happy at all is overreacting.
@@FunnyFany hard to take your trauma dumping seriously when you feel the need to do it on a video about the exorcist movie out of all things
@@padlily2485 nah dude, you're not dunking on me after you dismissed a very widely known phenomenon as "being forced to attend church on sunday mornings". Go develop compassion then we'll talk.
@@padlily2485 Always has to be that one edgy teen in the comments trying to be "cool"
The Nun's entire premise falls apart when you know that Romania was an aggressively communist state when the film's supposed to take place, and the monastery in question had been disbanded in 1474. There should be a version that's communists vs demons.
Now that's a movie idea 💡
How does Romania being socialist (a country can't be communist) contribute to the Nun "falling apart"? From 1958-1964 a wave of closures of monasteries did occur, but other than that they still did operate and Romania, especially under Ceauşescu, differed from most other socialist countries in that religion continued to play a big part in politics. So much so that in 1966 abortion was made illegal (in the SU for example it was legal) and Ceauşescu mantained ties to the Romanian religious leaders and those abroad.
Being a communist =/= antitheist, even if it historically often correlated.
Then there was a clash between Orthodox (who were slightly friendly to the Communist government) and Greek Catholics (who collaborated with the fascists during WW2) even under state atheism. The Nun could have used that political turmoil as an atmosphere much like the 2018 Suspiria movie did.
There is a comic where communists fight demons called KGB demons of kremlin
Thank you for the video, it really got me thinking!
It’s really important to remember that the vast majority of US ‘Catholic’ horror is made for and consumed by primarily American Protestants. Even when the creators are Catholic themselves, they often are affected by the overwhelmingly Protestant culture of the US.
This is really crucial for the focus on faith. Catholicism (in its modern form post-Reformation) does care about faith. However works, ritual, and structured community are much more central to Catholicism, while the centrality of faith is really a Protestant thing. The overwhelming focus on individual faith in Catholic-themed US horror shows this better than anything.
The Winchester Brothers busting in and exorcising demons like literal Lone Rangers before riding off alone into the sunset is probably the apex of this individualist trope, but it is very common in more conventional horror movies. The “real life” exorcists like the Conjuring couple or the priest in the video are Catholics but really often have the vibes of charismatic preachers of the US Evangelical Protestant tradition, while the Church council on exorcism is much more like boring bureaucrats stressing rules than cowboys breaking them. Also the clothes, self-presentation, and religious-authority-but-married status of the Conjuring couple makes them feel so much like WASPs!
The ritual implements themselves are key here too. For Catholic theology, these implements have power *in of themselves*, something that feels uncomfortably superstitious for most US audiences. This feeling of superstition is not necessarily a modern, scientific thing as much as it is a culturally specific (and Protestanty) understanding of religious power being located in individual faith rather than objects - hence the frequent “these things work only when we believe they work” speeches.
There’s a lot more interesting stuff here, from theological differences on Original Sin changing the structure of salvation in these movies (and creating the social phenomena of “Catholic guilt”), to the perceived “creepiness” of Catholic art being rooted in doctrinal/cultural differences linked to Reformation debates about idolatry (similar to how Chan Buddhists often see Tibetan Buddhist art as creepy). It is especially interesting that so many movies are set in the Satanic Panic of the 1970s, the moment when Catholicism became more or less fully integrated into mainstream US Christianity socially, culturally, and politically - more or less losing its former ethnic character. This doesn’t make the religion lose some of its Otherness though: to mainstream culturally-Protestant audiences it still seems weird, gothic, medieval, and ritualistic (i.e. great subject for horror), while to now 100% white Catholic audiences it has the same ‘our culture is special but not in a bad way’ appeal that created the mick-sploitation wave of the 1990s-mid2000s or St. Patrick’s Day green kitsch.
As a Hindu who has loved horror media since childhood but only recently accepted my spiritual self, a lot of Western horror presents with a dilemma. While the horror media is artistically (and sometimes philosophically) profound, so often it demonises spirituality that is not-Christian, whether it's Eastern religions, the "pagan" traditions native to Europe, or the spirituality of the Native Americans. I have had to confront how problematic so many horror tropes really are. The biggest example that comes to mind is the cults of Lovecraftian Horror, where alien pagan cults worship deities that are greater than daemonic. This is also why I have started to get into Eastern horror, like J-Horror. It feels closer to home, not because it shares Hindu values, but because it doesn't seem to demonise it.
Do you have any good recommendations of contemporary or vintage horror with Hindu themes?
Ooo, I'm not familiar with Eastern horror. Do you have any recommendations? The unfortunate thing is that most Christians/Catholics have very black and white thinking. They're raised to believe that you're either with the Christian God or with the Devil. Any non Christian practice is considered evil and demonic. It's really narrow-minded and sad thinking.
Did you see “It lives inside?”
yeah ive noticed lots of horror kinda push a sorta conservative agenda, it irks me
I’m also Hindu, but i somewhat disagree. Western horror, when it comes to the supernatural, tends to focus on deities or spirits that are intrinsically evil. And they aren’t evil because they are “non-christian”, but because they harm innocent people and do evil things. I’ve never really seen a horror movie where they show something like Shiva, Zeus, Odin, etc as evil. It’s always demons and evil ghosts, so i don’t think the message is necessarily that things are evil because they aren’t christian. The Nun movie even has the demon wearing a christian cross.
so! i am one of those catholic school survivors, and my one and only exorcism talk was during my freshman year of high school, a full 10 years into my catholic school stint. i'd never heard of gabriele amorth until this video; in fact, it sounds like his methods of exorcism and beliefs as to why they happened are the complete opposite of what i was taught. the priest who spoke to us, who to my recollection was a trained exorcist, said that the purpose of demonic possession is to make the possessed person, as well as those around them, lose their faith to the extent that when they died, they’d go to hell. the way he phrased it, it sounded like *only* people of faith were at risk for possession, as those outside of the faith were by and large already damned. it's something i joke about now when i meet non-catholics who fear demons and possession (catholicism is a judgmental religion to an extreme, or at least the version i grew up with is; if you don’t believe, you’re safe from demons in life but you are going to hell). as a horror writer myself, having this knowledge and having ruminated over it for years has definitely given me ideas for how i might shake up the genre, if i were interested in writing a possession story.
great video!! thank you for opening my eyes even further to the hypocrisy that made me leave the faith (mad respect to any catholics here who keep the faith!! it just ended up being too much for me personally). as a former catholic, the thing i appreciate most is getting tons of free content to inspire my writing 😊
edit: also of note, this priest said that he was taught to look to possession as a last resort. most cases of "possession" he was called to or heard about had more to do with underlying causes-mental illness, mostly-rather than literal demons. they normally referred people to health professionals, offered religious counseling if their clients weren’t response to professional treatment, or sometimes even prayed over people in a way similar to an exorcism if the client really wouldn’t believe there was another explanation. he said most exorcisms are extremely mild, no drama whatsoever, just saying certain prayers and sending people on their way. honestly, it made me feel secure at the time and not scared at all, and as an adult i appreciate that he didn’t try to fear-monger and was open to other explanations. unfortunately, although it sounded like he was not an exception to the rule, popular belief does not reflect his.
Some protestant churchs are much more “plague” boy demoniac possessivo e than Catholic communities. I always had the same notion that you explain your priest teached about exorcism, in Catholicism is a last resource, but in protestantism is default
I encourage you to pursue your writing idea
Hi! I'm a practicing Catholic (not perfect but doing my best), just wanted to comment on a couple of things you wrote. The Catholic Church doesn't teach that anyone who isn't a member of the Church/is a non-believer goes straight to Hell.
We don't know who goes to Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell and who doesn't because it's up to God to decide (He's the final judge). When a person dies, we're encouraged to pray for the repose and salvation of their soul.
Also, demons have no reason to possess those outside of the faith because it's easier for those people to be influenced by the devil, although I've heard stories of previously secular/atheist/irreligious people getting possessed. There's a great podcast hosted by exorcist priest called The Exorcisr Files if anyone wants to check it out.
Many people who come to priests asking for an exorcism have some type of mental illness - that's why the Church has a strict process where the person has to get psychologically evaluated and the exorcist priest has to obtain approval before performing an exorcism, if the person isn't suffering from a mental health issue.
And yes, Catholicism is a "judgmental" religion because it's the church Christ established to spread the gospel and help people get to Heaven.
It's a strict faith that has a lot of ugliness in its past but it's also a very beautiful, rich, and mystical religion. I'm sorry that hasn't been your experience with it growing up.
@@CarolinefdqI’m having a hard time with my faith lately. A lot of it has to do with how the church views, ahem, hanky panky and such. I know the church is answer is to pray and go to confession and what not but I don’t know. I read all of the New Testament and felt great then I started reading the Old Testament and I couldn’t get through book of judges without entirely tuning out, and since then it’s just been plummeting daily. Idk why I’m saying this but I don’t have social media so sometimes it feels good just saying it to the wind or whatever. Anyway hope you are well I really liked your comment and this thread in general cheers
@Carolinefdq
"We don't know who goes to Hell"
Well that's more complicated than you think
Here's a main diffence between traditional Protestants and Catholics. Protestants believe that only the Biblie and Holy Spirit can give you the knowledge of God, heaven, all the good stuff. Catholics also have the Church - almost two tausends years old institution created by Christ's followers. That's why Pope is the highest authority. He has a direct connection to the big guy up there. When a Pope declares something it becomes a spiritual law, undeniable truth
The issue is that various Popes declares different things over the years
There's a reason why there're Catholics who don't accept current Pope. He and his predecessors changed how mass should look like. Priests face people not altars. Language used is not latine etc
One of the things changed is that, for example, Jewish people are not meant to go to Hell. According to previous Popes they would definitely go there
Did I mention that trad Catholics tend to have antisemitic ideas?
Anyway according to Catholic doctrine nobody can say that Pope was wrong about something. Not even another Pope. So... Will Jewish people go to Hell? That Depends on which Pope you ask. Current one would say no but it's not like he can really change Catholic doctrine. At least according to Catholic Church
The nun lacked any real story and it's like it was just relying on their jumpscares rather than any real build up
That has always been a pet peeve of mine. If you acknowledge the fact of hell and demons structured within a Christian worldview, the God and heaven exist as well. It would be great if writers and directors did some basic research if they are going to use the Catholic church in the story.
Catholics and Catholicism portrayed in media mostly incorrectly.
Hell being real does not prove heaven is real. Knights from fairytales are real, that does not imply that dragons are as well.
Agreed but also... I'd like to see horror from any other faith structure. As not religious, I'm bored by Hollywood Catholicism. It would be great for references uses to be accurate or be something else.
The key words here are "Christian worldview". I would like to see films use other worldviews to base the story.
@@hopscotchtop I was hoping to find this comment. There is so much richness in what we would call horror all over the world. Why is it always the damned Catholics at the core of western cinema horror?
The Devils (1971) is one of my favorites. Also Stigmata is really good too! Except for the zero-chemistry romantic subplot between the possessed woman and her celibate priest who looks like he could be her dad.
But anyway, considering religion has been weaponized by power structures for centuries to justify brutal killings/suffering of innocent people for some kind of political gain, it's not at all surprising that it's so synonymous with horror.
Omg foreal, that crazy awkward and unnecessary romance makes it a bit hard to watch tbh. But it IS a cool movie otherwise.
As a Christian myself I have to agree with a lot of what you said. I actually enjoyed the nun, but to be fair I was just getting into horror movies at the time. I think it would've been better with a second subversion, particularly one that shows the brokenness of the world and how evil is a consequence of it. In Christian thought, bad things don't just happen to bad people, the entire book of Job is an essay against that teaching, bad things happen to everyone because the world is shattered, broken, not as it should be. We live in the midst of a rescue mission where Christ decends to us to save us from this suffering. I think the movie could've chosen to play with this idea, that even with faith we can still suffer, however even in the midst of the suffering we ought not despair, because we know that Christ already won the battle on the cross.
I love that you used the Evanescence version of Lacrimosa for the background music 😄
As a former Catholic school girlie, man I feel this. (Never got exorcised, but got prayed over, disability yay.) My aesthetic sensibilities have also been irrevocably changed because of it, I love dripping gold and silver and fine cloth, and a love of the ‘holy profane’. That’s probably the only good thing Catholicism gave me.
Catholic art is really good and malleable, you can create a lot using the aesthetics.
I went to Catholic school as well, and hated it. But the aesthetics are just so good...I like to visit churches as if they were museums.
You “got prayed over…” in a Catholic school? Interesting. Mainstream Catholicism doesn’t typically use that terminology. Was it a charismatic sect?
@@AnABSOLUTEBarbarian Not at school, but went to healings with a catholic twist. (Ethnic Croatian Catholicism).
Catholic imagery _is_ super cool, I’ll admit. Especially when we get into gothic horror elements- there’s a reason I love stuff like Castlevania and Powerwolf. XD
There's a movie called The Exorcism of Emily Rose which is based on a true story, albeit some Hollywood changes. The girl who is possessed (real name Anneliese Michel) felt it was her cross to bear and that she was "dying to atone for the wayward youth of the day and the apostate priests of the modern church." As a Catholic, a common topic is offering up our own sufferings for the salvation/well-being of others. We unite ourselves to Christ on the cross in this way. I know you didn't really go over this angle in this video but if you ever did a part 2 this could be something you address!
Even though it's not represented through film, another great example of horror in Catholicism is the game Blasphemous. A lot of the game's visuals are rooted in brutal Inquisition-era Catholic imagery and it focuses a lot on the Holy value in suffering and atonement through pain. The characters in the game praise the Miracle even when horribly mangled and twisted beyond imagination, seeing it as a blessing and proof of their faith in their deity. It's truly chilling stuff when you look at the core of what it means to be so religious that suffering is not only necessary, but beautiful and something to aspire to...
yes!! Blasphemous is a masterclass in portraying holiness in such a grotesque way it actually feels divine. They're not scary but disturbing in such a visceral level to me. It's almost like they're drawn in this matter-of-fact way where the designs are presented as they simply are rather than made frighten you, and you're just expected to accept them. It's kinda like parts of religion in a sense, like when you're told something sorta fucked up inside the doctrine and you go "that's horrible" but whatever religious leader you follow replies with smth like "it seems that way but it's just the way it is" (spoken from experience lol)
And like... it's hard to blame medieval folks for believing it too. I think a lot of people like to focus on these doctrines as they are today - which is basically a state of crisis - instead of the context in which they were created.
Back then, folks led harsh lives, the idea of "shit sometimes kinda sucks" is present both in Catholicism and in Buddhism, so the idea that this suffering actually has a purpose and can make you holy is extremely appealing, because then you know you're not suffering for nothing, and that your life isn't filled with plague and famine just because.
It's not a Revolutionary idea in the sense that it doesn't inspire people to change this status quo, but y'know.
@@LoganCrazyBoy that's a really interesting point. It kinda makes me wonder if it's also a way for ppl back then to feel like they have a semblance of control in their life when faced with the unknown (something religion seeks to explain). It's like "ok there's smth looking after me and if I please them then maybe they'd be kind to me and reward me". Sure it's not "control" in the clearest sense, and it's not exactly a "choice", but the thought of your action having a consequence on how you get treated by a power beyond your understanding, that you in a way "dictates" your own fate, that if you "choose" to suffer you can gain smth instead of it just being what it is, might be comforting
Exctatic pain in medieval Catholocism doesn't come from doctrines and was only acknowledged by central Priestly authority when their attempts to supress it proved unsuccesful and unpopular. Similar ideas go back to Greek pagan dionynus worship and are actually pretty unrelated to Christian atonement doctrines.
Hair shirts were more officially sanctioned and go back as a sign of penance to the Hebrew bible but they're just inconveniancing clothing and way less extreme than scarification, flagellation or blood letting which creeped out most medieval priests.
These extreme practices were never seen as 'normal' and were meant to be frightening even by their proponents and practitioners. Even in regions of Europe where ritual blood letting is still seen as part of the cultural heritage they're not practiced by the entire community, only those who aren't satisfied with the minimum requirements for local piety. @@LoganCrazyBoy
“That suffering is not only necessary, but beautiful and something to aspire to” This is why I believe that Catholicism is a death cult, a torture cult. It’s not enough for themselves to suffer, they have to make everyone else of different beliefs suffer too. It’s absolutely disgusting.
one aspect I really wish gets explored in religious horror more is the existence of the "demon" as actually grand, unknown, and really fucking existentially horrifying. I mean we're talking about fallen angels here technically, a.k.a. beings with thousands of wings and eyes. The corruption of something that powerful should be presented as more than just freakishly tall nuns with glowing eyes. You don't even have to show the demon to make their presence feel real. I once read a comic where a major character is a religious leader who still goes through the ritual of appeasing an ancient being bc if not ppl in his village literally get mauled, and he doesn't get chastised by the narrative for it. He's being painted as sympathetic and a devoted believer of God. That kinda horror is more disturbing and effective than The Nun
Imaginations are often constrained by anthropomorphism.
What's the comic called?
@@jameswelch92 I don't know if TH-cam deleted my comment or not bc it has links since I can't see it but it's called Algeria's Radio - Horror on Air. It's initially an Indonesian webtoon so there are some things that are probably not coming across well, but I think the official translation is pretty good. It's basically mini-stories exploring what I'd call toned-down Lovecraftian horror
My fave example of catholic horror is the video game Faith: The Unholy Trinity. You play as a catholic priest and the main gameplay is walking around and holding up a crucifix (certain other gameplay effects are seen later in the game but that would be spoilers to tell lol). The game was inspired by the satanic panic of 80s America and by old-school video games and it’s a rly excellent survival horror. I enjoyed figuring out wtf happened in the story with the priest, the genuine fear certain scenes made me feel, and how my choices changed the ending I got. “What I am about to do has not been approved by the Vatican…”
I recently saw a trailer for a new Argentinian horror called Deus Irae which looks like an interesting take on the exorcism movie. It's about a group of excommunicated priests who are still carrying out exorcisms but risking their humanity/sanity in the process. I think it's worth keeping an eye on.
Hmmm Im a Catholic, went to catholic school and even still stay in a Catholic church premises.
My catholic school was just across the street from a Catholic church and we used to go there for special masses on holy days of obligations.
This area was once a massive graveyard and it was even rumored that there was a tine students and teachers were dying and there was a whole cleansing on the school.
Being an all girl school in Nigeria, you have to realize that we were punished for being girls but also for just existing. Some girls were brought on assembly and shamed for the pettiest to the most serious things such as grooming that could have been addressed in private, some male teachers were fired, our sexuality was punished too. You can't put anyone in such a tight box and not expect them to break out.
Ive been exorcised twice because i opened up to priests in my younger years about my sexuality, mind you i was not sexually active i just wanted to know more about having relationships with other people because my friends were doing that.
Sometimes, I wondered if the real horrors was what was in the minds of this adults and the outside world
Maybe the real demons where the human beings we never expected
or to Western Cbristanity, The Catholic Church provides drama and theatrics that is lacking in Protestantism. Catholic exorcsim has a set ritual which provides drama whereas Protestantism is just some guy. And Romania is an Orthodox country not a Catholic one
Great video!
I think one idea that no one likes to think about is that, for most of its history, "the Catholic Church" wasn't a monolith, it was a massive framework of different societies and theologies battling eachother. For instance, you mentioned the doctrine of Discovery, but at the same time, one of the main Europeans fighting that was Bartolomé de las Casas, a Dominican missionary.
Joan of Arc is a great example of how the High Church, composed by nobles, and the Low Church, composed by commoners, were always in a constant state of tension. The appearance of the Franciscans threw everything out of wack for almost a century in the church.
Latin American church is also very singular in its activism, with people like Julio lancelotti and Pedro casaldaliga and with the theology of liberation and stuff
It's interesting that you mention 1408 and The Haunted Mansion since the "skeptic protagonist" is always a former christian who lost their belief after a tragedy. It's never just an atheist, they always have to be former christians.
I never considered that before! I always perceived it as the ubiquitousness of Christianity in US life.
It seems to me, as an outsider looking in, that the US treats Christianity as the default state of being. The Christian assumption is that one cannot be raised secular in the US - one must have been raised Christian first, then split away from those teachings.
Like the idea of a non -religious child growing into a non-religious adult is so alien to them that it's actually unfathomable for them.
Pretty sure John Cusack's character in _1408_ was implied to have already been a skeptic prior to his daughter's death. Her death and his subsequent failure to find any evidence for the afterlife only made him a more embittered one.
@@CiCodiCadnoBecause up until the past two generations, that's basically how the US was. Almost all Americans had at least seen the inside of a church at least once. And still to this day, there's a church on every major street, every other corner etc. Christianity in one form or another is uniquely intertwined into our history and culture. And whether you're a believer or not that's just a fact that can't be disputed.
@@thomasbrown3793 I don't think anyone's trying to deny that they've got a lot of churches? I might be misunderstanding you here though
Because most atheist are ex Christians. Being raised atheist in the USA is a new phenomenon that’s happening among Gen Z and still is not common. But during the time of Gen X (which most of the main actors are in these movies) it would’ve been extremely rare to be raised atheist.
Can I just say something? As a Latin American (as in actually born and raised in a Latin American country), namely Brazilian, Catholicism is a BIG part of my culture. Me, personally, I grew up in a urban area of Rio - which is a huge, mega diverse and plural metropoly - in the late 90s and 2000s, and by that time Protestant Christianity was already the majority among religious people, slightly in higher number than Catholic Christianity. Basically near half in half in proportion, but Catholicism being the older tradition in the Continent, it has the advantage of antique, established, entrenched weight in the culture, while Protestantism had the advantage of being the "modern", constantly growing group, specially Evangelism since the 80s, with their big TV shows and constant heavy marketing. Because of unrelated reasons that don't matter right now, I used to move out a LOT as a kid, and I was always in different schools, streets, types of houses and stuff, but one thing was settled, me and my family would ALWAYS find a church to go to in every place we lived in, without that many criteria. So I grew up Christian, no matter how, very ecumenically: as long as it's Jesus, we be praying. So I been to churches - Catholic, Baptist, Evangelical, Jehova Witnesses, Pentecostal Assembly of God, Seventh-day Adventist, Anglican etc. Soon as we dropped the boxes in the new rented house, it's school for the kids, job for the parents and CHURCH, any church for we all, it would be the one nearest, the easiest for us to go or the one the most friendly neighbor happens to invite us to. I'm saying all this to say, I KNOW Christianity, lots of it. and as a black, Latin, working class, queer woman, I also know oppression, miss representation and majority propaganda. I can tell that this "inherent terror" is NOT a CATHOLIC thing. It's a WHOLE CHRISTIANITY thing. And like.... it's unfair, to say the least, to associate that fear mongering and fantastical horror exclusively to Catholicism. To say a little bit more, saying that from the US, it comes of as xenophobic, and somewhat classist and even racist: most of the catholic population of the US in Latin, Italian and Irish, so of "different" ethnicities, non German/Anglo-saxon like most, regular, white Americans. And most of these folks are lower class and racialized. Just a little bit of history for context... Unlike Latin American countries, which were colonized by the LATIN EUROPEAN countries France, Portugal and Spain - yes guys. these are the original Latinos, white Europeans colonizers who speak a language that's derivative from Roman Latin, such as Portuguese, Spanish, French... Ignorant people from the US think "Latin/latino/Latina" is a race - it's absolutely not, it's a ethnoculture, much like Slavic, or Jewish, and Latin people can be of any race - and the most absurd, ignorant people from the US think Latin is "short" from "Latin America" which is as dumb as to say "blue" is short for "blue jeans". Latin America is called like that because it's the part of America (which is ONE CONTINENT, that can be divided in two subcontinents, North and South, or Insular and Continental, or Latin and Anglo-saxon, much like Europe is East and West, and Africa is North and Sub-Saharan), anyway, Latin America is the part of America that has inherited the language and culture of their LATIN colonizers (Spain, France and Portugal, back then catholic nations) just like Anglo-saxon America is the part of America that has inherited the language and culture of its Anglo-saxon colonizer (the UK, then a Protestant nation). So... while here in Latin America, in the formation of the current nations in the last 5 centuries the basis has been Catholic, but Protestantism is also very common, in the USA, because it is a former UK colony, the country has a Protestant basis since begging, and that's the "normal" brand of Christianity over there, but with the difference of Catholicism being seen as deviant, as the evil, weird, suspicious, dangerous "other". With the constant dispute between Catholicism and Protestantism going on in Britain around the time of colonization, independence and formation of the USA, the country was BORN with anti Catholicism propaganda fomented by British culture at the time, which painted that brand of Christianity as inherently devilish, demonic obsessed, image centered, corrupt, paganistic, cultist, dangerous, deviant, with impure rituals and erronic practices. And over the last two decades, with the Imperialist machinery of the US towards the rest of the American Continent, in special Latin America, the "othering" of Catholicism remained, and THAT'S the painting we see in horror movies. Not only horror ones, but every time someone from the US or in US media mentions Catholicism in any movie, or TV or game, even comedy or romance ones, it's to make a weird comment on guilt, trauma, confessions, rituals, exorcism, demons, profecies, rules, and the most unfair, infamous, and sadly prominent comment of all, ped0ph!lia. As if there were none of these things in ANY and EVERY brand of Christianity. As if in YOUR country the proportion of s3x crimes against minors wasn't BIGGER amongst Protestant PASTORS than Catholic Priests. Yes, it is, look it up. So... to me, it is VERY problematic to associate the tropes of horror with Catholicism specifically, when they fit the whole of Christianity, and specifially in the context of the US where yall have historically, constantly, one - patronized and misinformed about Catholicism via state and elite propaganda, and two - oppressed ethnic minorities (Latin Americans specifically) into marginalized positions both internally and externally. It just works as one more tool to othering Latinos and of misrepresent a huge, enormous, portion of global population in movies that will be exported back to the entire globe. And I, my self, I'm a happy atheist nowadays, thank god. I'm free from every and any type of restriction and illusions caused by the belief in mysticism. I find community in healthier spaces chosen by myself based on common interest, not mandatory by culture from birth; I find inner piece within my own person and the real connections that I have with the real people that I really engage with, not dependence to a imaginary absent daddy; and I find clarification through the shared accomplished knowledge of the world, not myths and assumptions. So, I'm not defending Catholicism because I believe in it. I don't. All I am is a radically anti imperialism Latin American. And I hate unfair judgment, specially when it comes to under represented folks. The Catholic Church ISN'T inherently devilish, or more evil than Evangelism or any other type of Christianity. Hollywood movies just clowns up everyone who isn't WASP.
Omg hi, I’m also Latin American and thank you for saying everything I wanted to say!
Sou brasileiro também, ver esses comentários das pessoas sobre suas experiencias com o cristianismo machuca muito meu coração, como oprimimos e deixamos cicatrizes imensas em povos inteiros até hoje. Principalmente ao perceber que não é só algo cultural mas principalmente estrutural. Espero que as coisas estejam melhores pra você, sinto uma culpa enorme pelo que o meu pessoal tem feito pelos últimos 2000 anos, não era pra ser assim, era para praticarmos compaixão, misericórdia, perdão e amor, independente de quem fosse. Muitas vezes perco dias inteiros pensando nisso, mesmo assim não acho que o correto no meu caso seja deixar-lo já que o cristianismo faz parte da minha identidade, acho que o melhor seria ressignifica-lo, desculpa o textão só queria desabafar mesmo.
THIS
Lacra mesmo mana
I'm not catholic but my favorite catholic horror film is the movie Alucarda, which is a Mexican film about lesbians seeking vengeance on the church they're boarded at after one of them was brutally murdered out of faith.
Ooh sounds interesting. It also spells Adracula backwards.
@@reikun86 The movie actually had nothing to do with Dracula or vampires lol. It's more along the line of Carrie.
@@citrus_sweet I figured it didn't have anything to do with vampires. The title caught my eye because there's a Hellsing character named Alucard, which is Dracula spelled backwards.
One of my favorite movies ever.
Any person who’s got a tie to anything Catholic will totally hear me w this; but it might surprise those who don’t have much real world experience with Catholicism in America but there is NO RELIGION, where the supposed faithful can possibly be LESS enthusiastic than Catholicism in the northeast US. In fact, while almost all of them are supposed to be here (not including Central American Catholics cuz idk?), yet you will have a lot of trouble trying to find a single person under 45 who, when asked their religion, won’t respond with “well, I was RAISED Catholic” lol I swear I went to Catholic school k-8 and half of high school yet I don’t think I know a single person who would answer “I’m Catholic”. Nope, always gotta have that plausible deniability lol “I was Raised catholic, but you know…” 😂
Also idk why Hollywood always uses Catholic priests and nuns in horror movies since through most of American history the vast majority of Americans have been Protestant. I think it’s a trope in horror because it’s appears very theatrical and Mysterious. I think it’s more that the film industry thinks “Catholic is out there, man” but if anyone actually bothered to goto a Catholic mass on Sunday and other people actually went, you would only hear “A-meh”. Also, I don’t think most of these films are actually made by Catholics. I’m not big on most of these but you mentioned Martyrs and that was one of the best horror films of all time.
Same with how buddhists are actually depicted as all knowing kung fu master but in reality it's a very depressive philosophy that condemns violence even as self defence
Norco, which is one of my favorite video games, uses Catholic imagery in some really interesting ways. It's a mystery/horror game set in Southern Louisiana and details like the Virgin Mary statue in the protagonist's mother yard capture how deeply Catholic that region is. The main antagonists of the game are a cult that believes the protagonist and her family are descendants of Jesus and there's some really beautiful and creepy use of religious and exploration of the danger of misguided faith
Have not finished the video yet but love that you used “sacrilege” in the background 💜
a great religious horror movie that is NOT catholic or christianity based is the Incantation (i watched it on netflix), it’s a buddhist horror movie and it’s super scary. my best friend explained some of the parts to me so i could understand the uncanny parts, but overall 8/10
Religion is horrific in general
Great video! The emphasis on faith is interesting because it's historically much more in line with protestant than catholic philosophy. I think the emphasis on faith in horror film is more a reflection of the protestant values held in America pasted onto catholic aesthetics. The lack of protection given by faith in catholocism can also be seen through one of europe's most historically significant cases of possession, the 1634 possession of Loudon's nunnery. A great video is available on the subject by @ESOTERICA.
In early elementary school, I was told to dress as Kateri Tekakwitha for All Souls Day. I did.
I was one of the most Germanic-looking children you'll ever see.
It felt wrong even then, though I couldn't have told you why. I've wanted to hide that incident since, but I think it's more valuable to spread it around.
Someone once took a black-and-white photo of me and a few of my cousins, and people have since seen it and asked "Wow, were your grandparents Hitlerjugend?" And I have to be like "No, that's me."
And *I* dressed up in a costume as a child who had her beliefs violently stripped away and then died of blood poisoning as her skin and mucous membranes erupted with lesions down her esophagus and trachea. That's how smallpox kills. It's not rhe skin lesions. It makes it so painful to swallow that you starve and makes it so painful to breathe that you suffocate.
My school made me dress as her essentially for Halloween. I was... I dunno, maybe seven? But I wasn't given any information abour her culture or actual personality or how she would actually have dressed. I remember wearing the roughly 1997 equivalent of a Spirit Halloween "Indian" costume with some red dots on my face to represent fucking SMALLPOX.
There's a goddamn horror story for you.
I am sorry.
I am so damn sorry.
why? it's not your fault. you were just a kid
Jfc…
Speaking as someone who’s been through similar pangs of guilt- Don’t blame yourself. (Big hug) White supremacy is an open secret within Christianity. This is abundantly obvious from even a cursory study of Christian history. All of Christianity’s ideas about the powers of Hell and their influence on Earth were projected onto people of colour & non-Christians. The Catholic Church supported Adolf Hitler and only got around to apologising for it (very reluctantly, I might add) in 2020. Granted, Protestants supported Hitler, too. But that only proves it’s Christianity in general, and not just that one branch of especially repressed and hysterical Christians, which is corrupt. Read Paradise Lost and notice the emphasis on Adam & Eve being "fair" (i.e., white & blond). This stuff runs deep, and it's still being taught to kids in schools today.
Guilt over tacitly supporting racism, homophobia, etc. (even though it was taught to them from baptism, and they can in no way be held responsible) has the effect of keeping people from leaving the faith, knowing they will be judged. The cynic in me wants to believe the Church deliberately uses the methods of cults & criminal gangs, “initiating” members at birth and inculcating them with beliefs which the rest of society considers problematic in order to isolate & control them, but that’s probably not the case. Probably.
PS. Found your website. I see you're a famous author! ☺I'm studying ancient history & English lit and plan to become an author, too. We have many of the same interests. Funny how Catholicism's attempts to scare us with stories of demons & monsters ends up inspiring us to write horror, isn't it? The Church wants us to fear the darkness, but we end up falling in love with it instead. I was eight years old when I tried to start a coven at Catholic school. My vice principal was NOT impressed. 🤭
You have nothing to apologize for. This was not on you. You were a child doing as you were told in spite of your own conscience. That's not your fault, it's the fault of the adults in your life telling you to do this.
I don't get it. She ended up in heaven, did she not?
I saw some clips from the movie "seklusion" and I wanted to point out that movie is a critique of the Philippines over religiousness and sometimes they worship the saints instead of god as a filipino alot of people turn to saints for specific things it's a type of religious horror where the thing your believing in is the one that's against you
Filipino here and I can say a lot of Catholics seem to pray Mary more than God...
I mean, rosaries have about 5:1 ration of Hail Mary to Lord's Prayer and Glory Be if my memory serves me right.
love it when yhara drops a new video💕💕
Oh no. I only just recently realized that I cannot in good conscience call myself Catholic anymore, and I'm looking forward to watching this as much as I'm dreading it.
I haven't finished the video yet, but based from the thumbnail I did see some trims from the Filipino movie Seklusyon by Erik Matti. I think that Filipino horror, especially Filipino Catholic horror, is more lenient to breaking those boundaries set by Western horror movies.
Because Catholicism in the Philippines was initially a colonialist modality by the Spaniards, the mixture of Catholicism with pre-colonial beliefs makes it a more interesting approach to how the 'old' and 'new' god/s co-exist beside each other.
I really think that Catholic horror is an uprising genre in the PH given the rekindling belief in folk magic, pre-colonial practices, and the like.
They also question beliefs and the Church itself which I appreciate as an atheist (former RC)
The exorcism doesn’t even work in the Exorcist. Karras doesn’t get rid of the demon. He is forced to take the demon on and then tries to kill himself. That is a failed exorcism. Faith doesn’t beat the demon. Which is hilarious because it spawned a whole genre that hinges on that faith can save you.
saint maud is one of the most interesting explorations of religious (specifically catholic) horror that i've ever seen, and its also a movie i really never want to watch again. i found it to be very accurate to a specific lived experience a lot of catholics share, and (without spoiling too much) the ending really did tie itself up well and show some of the "answer" or whatever you could call it.
TH-camr Acolytesofhorror did a amazing video essay on Saint Maud. I recommend it if you have the time.
I will be back after therapy so I’m not triggered by discussions of catholicism 😎😎😎
I think it's really interesting but most of this movies are not actually about catholicism. In those movies show chrstianism which is slightly different.
Also, I've always thought that the Warren movies are crhistian propaganda
The best horror I’ve seen (both in general and theological horror specifically) is The Silt Verses; it’s a podcast, and explores the role of spiritual systems in commodification and colonialism, the way “god” or “saint” or “blessing” is defined varies radically with perspective, and how stories twist and bend past the tellers of them!
It’s set in a roughly 1980s fantasy setting and has no irl religions but the commentary is still piercing and direct; if someone tries it and likes what they hear, Old Gods of Appalachia is similarly excellent!
Religious horror always struck too close to home with me. I grew up with super Catholic grandparents who believed in the paranormal as well. The stories of demon possessions stuck with me and i couldn’t handle seeing movies like Exorcist and Paranormal Activity
I honestly never thought The Exorcist ending was about faith. To me it always seemed like the resolve of Karras wasnt from restored faith, but from his determination to save Regan. When Chris asks if her daughter will die, Karras replys with an adamant "no" and its the first time in the movie he seems completely sure of anything. Just my two cents though.
that's fair, i've just always interpreted that as having faith. not necessarily of the religious sort either. it's like i said near the end, it can be having faith in a higher power or having faith in yourself. in this case, karras has faith in himself and his ability to, if not defeat pazuzu, then free reagan.
@@Yharazaydthat makes sense. I guess I was thinking faith only in the religious context, but it works in other ways too. I think either way the points in this video still stand.
4:23 the thing about the Exorcist and Karras is that the exorcism isn't succeeding and they're struggling to save Regan, who is actively dying, giving them little time to work with. it takes Marrin having heart failure to push Karras over the edge and take a measure that isn't reciting rites, telling the demon to take him instead of the girl, and then killing himself to stop the demon from using him to harm Regan. if it was going to come down to "having a lot of faith makes you win," then Marrin could have cast the demon out easily as he's depicted as a calm and deeply wise man of faith. the book has a solid remark and consistent thread on the basis of this that is in the book and might be in the film (I've read the book more than seen the film so my memory is hazy for the film,) that real faith relies on acts of love unto others, which links back to Karras sacrificing himself while he's in possession of the demon. this is a concept that reaches through and past any one specific religion; it's rooted in faith but is really an overall existential message.
Just...
Everything said here 8:30 just baffles me. The church essentially supplanting God, the almighty being whom they worship, as the most important spiritual entity in people's lives. It makes sense why when Guillermo del Toro (who was raised catholic) makes films that take jabs at the catholic church (Pinnochio and Pan's Labyrinth) he focuses on themes of disobedience: the child protagonist coming to their own as they learn to break rules and decide things for themselves.
I'm honestly surprised that
gnosticism (a more complex branch of Christianity) hasn't been used more in media. Especially considering that it takes church and priest out in favor of giving more power to the people.
@@kittykittybangbang9367 Gnostics aren't Christian. They don't believe Christ is God therefor cannot be Christian
@@kittykittybangbang9367”power to the people” lmfao throughout most of gnostic history they were a secret sect that would rarely allow outsiders in who didn’t have “the secret knowledge” it’s literally one of the main reasons it died off as a sect.
ive always thought about this!! like how metal bands use a lot of scary/horror imagery and how it lends itself to catholicism/religious imagery in general
Now sitting here with author brain contemplating a horror story in which RELEASING religion reveals salvation.
finally, an atheist exorcist!
Cringe
You’re back! And on my fave holiday of all days 🥺
For instances of Catholic-flavored horror in other media, it definitely shows up heavily in 40K and certain arcs of Berserk. Not necessarily the most nuanced examples, but it intrigued me
Warhammer 40K pulls a lot from Catholic imagery as well and it’s kind of wild how easily this imagery is twisted to suit to the setting
Oh! the little girl in the fancy priests' vestments in the thumbnail is from the Filipino Indie film Seklusyon, also a Catholic Horror flick set in the backdrop of rural Philippines just at the tail end of World War 2. The difference that film has with the rest mentioned in this video though is the significantly Filipino Folk Catholic approach it takes, and the tension between pre-colonial spiritual forces and the colonial Catholic forces. It's a relatively good film, though it does have some pacing issues. It's worth watching if you're interested!
“The Exorcist is the blueprint…And all these bitches are her sons.” I love the call back to your own previous video 😂 😂 great video!
As a catholic, i want a horror film based on Vatican 2, getting chills thinking about a depiction of Assisi 1986
I am Catholic, culturally and ethnoreligiously. And I recently rejoined The Church. I didn’t want to watch this, I normally cringe at secular/non-Catholic takes on Catholic themes and Catholics/Catholicism is usually misrepresented in mainstream media. Especially US mainstream media because we are a Protestant country. But this was actually good! A couple things:
Exorcisms are approved by a process that starts with a Diocese’s and must go through the Vatican, so you are not wrong because it could have been either or both. The Diocese could have denied the request at their level as well. You just ultimately need Vatican approval to move forward with one.
You touch on some really relevant elements of Catholicism that I wanted to elaborate on.
You mention an observation of The Nun that could be interpreted as a commentary on “faith alone.” It’s important to note what separates us from The Protestants (which Catholics typically define as any non-Catholic Christian) is that we do not subscribe to the concept of “faith alone.” Like Father said, we have to have prayful, sacramental lives, BUT we also have to live in accordance to Catholic Social Teachings, and a virtuous life (specifically the ten virtues of the blessed Virgin and the seven heavenly virtues). And “prayful” isn’t just the occasional pray or Hail Mary. Ideally Catholics start their day with some type of Georgian Chant (it’s our “smudging”, it cast out demons/evil), you fit in the Rosary of the day, and you do a holy hour. If you have the time you go to Mass as well, the only required days to attend Mass are Sunday and days of Holy obligation, First Saturdays,
and reconciliation. I like how you brought up martyrdom. The priest in the exorcist is a perfect example of Catholic martyrdom, and despite the banning of the movie by The Vatican, that scene is a very symbolic example of Catholic faith. The highest vocation is ordained life too so that scene is very true to Catholic beliefs when it comes to sacrifice. But I would say it can’t be understated that Catholics do not believe pain is inherently bad, I would explore Catholic self mortification more because I think that’s relevant to what you are tackling here.
I think people think Catholics fear hell and demonic possession constantly and that’s why we behave how we do. However that isn’t the case. The desire is to be close to G*d, not just away from the devil. Fear is a sign of doubt so if you are acting scrupulous out of fear then you are committing a sin even while acting holy. It takes more than wavering faith to be possessed, otherwise all Catholics would experience demonic possession. We are allowed to question our faith and religion, it’s actively encouraged. So although Catholics are portrayed this way it’s highly inaccurate. Each Mass we…idk how to say it but we bask in the awe of the mystery of faith. It’s like acknowledging how beyond human understanding the concept of G*d is. It’s an act of humility.
Any Catholic I know that felt condemned to hell would either seek reconciliation or understand they are worthy of it.
Catholic humility is understanding we are not worthy of G*d, the sacrifice of Christ, or heaven. So, the mainstream depiction of us splashing holy water over our shoulder while genuflecting as something we do out of fear has always humored me. Because that would land us in the same place we are trying to prevent. We live this way because we were called to as disciples.
BUT Fun Fact! You might enjoy, although demonic possession is rare, all Catholics receive exorcisms! We receive them during our Rites to Roman Catholic Initiation.
Catholicism is ancient, ritualistic, and well…kinda goth? Lol, but it’s beautiful. I’m proud to be Catholic.
Weird Priest: Yoga leads to demonic possession.
Me, thinking about the yoga people I've met: Yeah actually that tracks
I liked the nun and the nun 2 😭
A video that mentions my favorite guy?? My dude Bosch?? Hell yes!
One of my favs as well, he’s such a weird little guy
Yeah, but changing the pronunciation of his last name took me out of the video. I've never heard it pronounced bosc, like a pear before.
My interpretation of the nuns telling Irene to pray, was God sending the souls of the nuns back to earth to tell Irene to pray because that would keep them safe. In the Nun 2 they do explain why Irene could see the nuns alive and why the others couldn’t.
as a sidenote you could also say that the numerous Japanese horror films featuring spirits are religious in nature due to Shinto being an animistic religion.
Ever watch .....Aguirre, the Wrath of God?😊
The Catholic imagery has always had a basis in horror. Just think of gargoyles and imagery of hell on gothic churches, the Divine Comedy, even many parts of the bible. The pageantry of light and dark in the rich visuals of the rituals.
The actions of the church in the past have had so many horrific moments such as the inquisition, burning of witches (although protestants did more of this). The Catholic Church’s participation in colonialism and genocide in the conquest of the Americas, the theft of babies in fascist governments such as Argentina and Spain. The many deaths and trauma they caused in boarding schools for indigenous children around the world, the deaths of girls, women, and babies in Ireland… the list goes on and on.
The beautiful pageantry, the absolute power of the leadership, the profound guilt. I haven’t even touched on csa in the US or the trauma so many people have just from getting to fit in.
Series such as Midnight Mass really capture the subtleties of the sheer horror of religious trauma by playing everything as realistically as possible.
Anyways, thank you for touching on a horror subgenre that has sooo much more potential because the horrific material is so profound.
I love The Nun idgaf🫣It didn't have a cohesive story sure but god damn was it spooky. And I mean I like that all The Nuns were dead. It's scary to think that even if you have unwavering faith, sometimes evil can still overtake you. It shows how powerful the demon is.
But honestly I just view it as an OVA where I get to enjoy Taissa Farmiga and everyone's favorite spooky nun. The sequel was amazing though and I think fixed a lot of things.
To this day I'm scared to use a Ouija board. Hell I had a Wiccan tell me not to use them.
Another Catholic Church survivor here. I’d noticed the spike in Catholic horror movies lately. IMO, the Church wants to save face after the sexual abuse scandals, thus the flood of movies with Catholics as saviours & heroes. I was a big fan of the Conjuring movies for a while, and I really think learning about the scandals concerning Ed Warren is what drove me away from Christianity for good … as well as made me even more cynical about Hollywood. There’s no way they didn’t know the dude was accused of keeping a minor as a sex slave. And yes, I realise these are unproven “allegations”, but I would think a scandal of this nature would give any ethical producer pause before greenlighting an adaptation of the Warrens’ heroic adventures. I’m picturing one guy putting up his hand at the pitch meeting to suggest that maybe a sexual predator isn’t the best hero for their trilogy of horror films, only to be glared into submission. I believe it was even in the actors’ contracts that they weren’t allowed to talk about the scandal. That tells me there was an agenda in making the films. A few high-ranking Vatican officials standing by with fists full of cash, like.
The original Exorcist film is the only Catholic horror movie worth watching, IMO. Because it’s self-aware and conscious of the ebbing relevance of the Church in the modern world. Catholic priests are still the heroes, but they’re much more three-dimensional. (Fr. Karras is not the only one having a crisis of faith, IMO. The signs are also there with Fr. Merrin, if you pay attention.) At this point, the only Catholic horror film which would feel fresh & actually scary is one which represents the Church itself as the object of horror, peddling repression & religious abuse, and such a film is not likely to be made. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to decompress with a game of The Binding of Isaac.
If I’m not mistaken “The Devil’s Doorway” (2018) may be what you’re looking for. It’s a found-footage horror film set in a Magdalene laundry.
This is an interesting take on the conjuring franchise. While I definitely recognize the issues, I do still love the films. Personally, I think of the warrens in the movies to be fictional characters separate from their IRL inspiration. And whenever I introduce anyone to the films, I make sure to tell them that that’s not a real representation of the warrens and they were super problematic people
@@gabriellegay4097 I’m glad you can still enjoy the movies. I’m not sure I could. Which is a pity, as they are very good.
@@dragonchariot Yooo, this looks interesting! Thanks for the recommendation ❤️
The Catholic Church is guilty of a lot of evil and abuse...and good clergyman are completely transparent about that. But like any major organization there's a ton of diversity. And for all the evil it's also responsible for a lot of good in the world. I'm sure your feelings for walking away from the faith are valid. But I pray that someday you can see some of the good in spite of the evil.
Sorry but what's the song that starts playing when you're talking about The Nun? I know it but can't recall the title nor the band
Im mexican, the culture in Mexico (and i think most latin america too) is inherently catolic because of colonialism. gen z is the first generation in which most of us arent religious.
I got scared this halloween, i was in a maniac state and both in halloween and dia de muertos i was paranoid, and this paranoia was related to my religious trauma.
I saw some things, but mostly it was my own paranoia.
From this experience I can confidently say that catholicism is way more evil than any demon that they talk about.
And the mind is powerful, you make your own reality, if you believe in something, it is real for you. So choose you belives, that will save you from your own fears.
You sound more like an american "woke" or sjw than mexican
As a gen z, This was one of the cringiest comments I have ever seen
Just in time!
it's interesting how, of all the films this year, the reverse of this is a haunting in venice. poirot doesn't believe, other characters in the film do. poirot remains a skeptic to the very end of the film. he find belief only in life and the people around him (despite everything that happens). it wasn't as good a film as it could've been, but I'm thinking about it now.
I'm super curious about what you think of "Midnight Mass." I think it really flips the idea of faith in horror on its head
Hey I was raised catholic... and this isn't entirely off base
So I recently finished a long research project on Saint Lucy and since you mentioned her, I just wanted to point out a few things:
The idea of her having her eyes gouged out is widely debated among scholars, as references to it come from centuries after her death. However, it is widely agreed that she was persecuted and eventually killed for her faith (specifically by non-Christians since Christian persecution was a legit thing of her historical context)
Throughout history, the focus of the mythos around her has changed, with some cultures (like Scandinavia) adopting her feast day to the pagan celebration of the winter solstice. Hence, over there, her image is much more focused on celebration and more positive elements than other points in history/other regions. These different contextual focuses emphasize the difference in approaches to the saints between Roman Catholic doctrine and others, where Roman Catholic emphasized more her suffering. (The whole concept of “virgin martyrs” has been a huge focus throughout history and art).
There’s a lot more I could say about this especially since my brain has been swimming with facts about her since finishing this project 😅 I greatly appreciate the thoughts on how catholic attitudes toward impact media depictions!
saint maud is really interesting take on catholic horror if you haven't seen it. This was a great essay!
Good presentation on the recent link. Liked use of quotations, though would like their book or article source, since the speakers largely were translated from their original languages, so may have been taken out of context or misquoted by the articles, especially Father Amorth's comments. It is interesting how Catholic Horror has become such a popular sub-genre in recent years due to the Exorcist. The Exorcist is probably the only one that tries to actually do its research and get consultants from the Catholic Church to give it some respect, the director being agnostic, but two actors and the author of the book it is based on being priests or devout members. It acknowledged that exorcisms are rare and that very few Catholics place emphasis on the demonic, as focus on it is discouraged. There is not an increase in possession now, just an increase in reports due to fear brought on by popular culture making it more well known. The other movies are not propaganda, and would fail at being used for it, not doing any research on Catholic ideas beyond the imagery and basic ideas of 'faith,' which is more from pop culture generalization, and even often showing ideas that are contrary to Catholic Catechism as part of the religion. The exorcism movies that largely followed only use the religion as exotic window dressing. The Morbid Zoo had a brief but interesting video on the history of scary nuns and their various influences. There is a long history of America and other largely Protestant countries seeing the religion as exotic and scary, largely from the old imagery being taken out of context and memories of the very real scandals. The retelling of St. Joan of Arc's story is a common misconception, as she was martyred due to the war between England and France at the time, her visions used against her by the Burgundian clergy and soon seen as an abuse of justice, going against procedure and based on political bias. Gothic literature primarily emerged from a fear of Catholic past and stories of corruption and distrust of the clergy. The Conjuring movies, using the Warrens who, though Catholic, were outside of Church approval, and The Nun, having a nun commit suicide rather than be possessed and having a sign saying 'God ends here,' make little sense if one practices Catholicism. The concept of the 'dark night of the soul' and various stories of the saints being attacked by demons, like St. Anthony and St. Margaret, show different approaches to what faith and suffering mean in Catholicism and rarely appear in the films mentioned. Even Father Amorth allegedly believed mocking the devil was an effective weapon against him, not really being worthy of respect or fear.
such a fascinating topic & that thumbnail is INCREDIBLE
I’m very out of touch with Catholicism and Christianity as a whole, so I have to ask.
Are these movies scarier if you believe in Christianity?
Like, I know these movies wouldn’t happen because I don’t believe in any religion. But does much of the horror element come from the belief that this could happen or from the belief that God lost?
Not really, especially if you have a lick of knowledge of Catholicism.
angry at youtube right now, you're one of my favorite creators on here and it shows me your video two days after it comes out. Stop with your games, youtube! You know who I watch
I heard this on the Throughline podcast from NPR, but apparently when Cortez discovered Mexico, he had native, and indigenous women baptized before they were raped by his men. And yes, the Catholic Church knew and approved.
Edit: The episode is titled Throughline: Tenochtitlan.
I’d recommend checking out The Exorcism of God if you want a big shake up on the exorcism formula
SPOILERS but it ends with the exorcism failing and the priest having to make a Faustian bargain instead to save possessed children.
This video could be made about "ghost hunters" too. They don't seem to understand that believing in demons makes you a religious person. And no one wants that
if you're looking for more Catholic horror, I highly recommend the 2D video game Blasphemous, made by Spaniards who took inspiration from the history of the Inquisition in their area. turn on the Spanish audio!
or! just listen to the Blasphemous soundtrack, which is soo spoooky and soo sad
Just a note, Canon law explicitly states that only priests with explicitly permission.
The Rite was such a beautiful film to me 💕
One show that has a really good reinterpretation of Catholic Horror is HBO's 30 monedas, spoilers below
It adopts the position that God is not purely good, but both good and evil, and demons are angels that drew the short stick when the roles were distributed, and the rebellion was because "they wanted their names in the credits". Hell is even stated as being an aspect of God that he doesn't want to accept as being part of him. In the new season, the demon character, named Father Angelo, ironically, says that the last time his boss was on Earth, he got crucified, implying that ultimately, God is the ultimate driver of things
Wow, I had a little knowledge in catholic religious horror, but you definitely clued me into a lot more of it and its basis. Always had a strange fascination with these sorts of films and wondered why they became so popular. Having grown up Christian, there was a lack of horror movies centering around Baptists and these scared the piss out of me up until I deconverted. Things like The Exorcist were one of the stumbling blocks I had leaving the religion. The fear of demonic possession or cruelty of demons coming after me was a very real fear I had, even though it hardly ever stemmed from the trapping of my own religion.
Happy Halloween Yhara!
Fun fact about Martyrs (the original French version): The director was going through a divorce at the time and self-admittedly used the movie as a way to "work through his feelings" about his wife leaving him. Both of the main actresses have also said he was disturbing and abusive, and neither of them will work with him again.
Martyrs has nothing to do with religion and is literally just torture porn for a man who hates women. I really wish people would stop talking about this movie like it actually says or does anything beyond showing a very real hatred for women.
Also, the entire point of the plot is that they just HAVE to use young beautiful naked women as Martyrs because no other demographic sacrifices themselves so completely and "beautifully" which makes me want to vomit