Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful and nuanced take on a really difficult and upsetting topic. It’s so challenging to reconcile admiration for an artist’s work with the knowledge of their actions, especially when those actions cause harm. Your reflections on drawing the line between appreciating their creative influence and honoring the pain of victims really hit home. I also appreciated your point about not abandoning the idea of role models entirely. It’s easy to become cynical and assume the worst, but as you said, the majority of creative figures who inspire us do so without these kinds of dark revelations attached to them. It’s a reminder that creativity and influence can be deeply meaningful while still holding space for accountability and critical engagement. Your honesty and willingness to grapple with these complex questions make this such an important conversation. Thanks for tackling this so thoughtfully.
As well, 'all celebrities are the same' can lead to an attitude of 'nothing can be done', but every single cause needs to be held accountable so that those who are doing right can continue to do what they do and inspire people.
Absolutely agree with what you said about deviancy not being the norm and the importance of having heroes, whether or nor they're moral people. One of the best writers I know never stopped reading. And one of the worst poets I know has never even read a page of poetry herself because she doesn't want to be influenced. It takes HUMILITY to be influenced in the art. It takes humility to grow.
Absolutely agree. Books are a product. We purchase a product on our whims and desires. Nothing in the purchase promises (nor should it) that the creator of the product is a morally upright person. The good or bad people do in their personal lives is, whether we like it ot not, their business at least until the law steps in. Gaiman was and still is one of fave writers. But I wont burn or throw away his books even if he is guilty because supporting his work in the past was a commercial choice, not a moral one. We shouldn't condemn people for choosing to keep what they want of a creator.
I agree that it's both hasty and lazy to think "every celebrity is the same," but it's also important to remember a few things. 1. Obnoxious, immoral, and sometimes even criminal behavior may be overlooked or "hushed up" when the perpetrator is considered too monetarily advantageous to lose. 2. It is easy for anyone who spends significant portions of his/her life being adored to begin feeling entitled. 3. It is also easy to decieve ourselves into believing we "know" someone when we connect with some piece of their creative work. In some ways, I miss the pre-internet days when I would purchase and read a book without knowing a blasted thing about the author beyond what was printed on the back cover. Yeah, I'm sure one could pursue information even then, but it took a certain amount of effort, and there wasn't the 24/7/365 bombardment of newsfeeds. Edit: I can't believe Jim Henson has been gone for that long already. 😢
I have wanted to include Neil Gaiman in many of my videos last year. I refuse to do so because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Agree that it is shocking and upsetting, but not the norm.
We all have both light and dark inside us. Everyone is walking a tightrope. Fame is also insidious, which would be a factor and an enabler. It's really hard to know how to react when people who have created enjoyable things and yet also have given in to their darker side. Does everything related to the person then become bad too? Should we feel guilt if you still enjoy their lighter side? I don't condone bad and criminal behaviour but by the same token it seems wrong to suddenly hate or erase something that was once enjoyable by association. Especally if they no longer benefit financially from it and their transgressions are not swept under the rug. Also if other people were also involved who had nothing to do with it and knew nothing. It's a tough one and everyone deals with it differently.
I so much respect your integrity and decision to err on the side of caution to not disrespect the victims and potential victims. I agree we should have role models --- and we should BE role models. This was a great talk. 😊
amanda helped to get women for neil to abuse im seriously bothered by those who claim many knew of his behaviour all the way back in the 90s i dont buy these claims
I think with cases like these there will be some false stuff added to the facts. I heard about Amanda sending someone to Neil - one of the women revealing her story.
Thank you for saying this! On a more pragmatic level, I keep thinking about all those "don't have heroes"/"don't put people on pedestals" comments, "Great, enjoy rewiring the human brain!" We look up to and learn from people so naturally. How on earth are you going to stop that? Also, it's reasonable to assume the majority of SF/F authors are not in fact doing things that would make TH-cam screen this comment. (I guess the actual take away would be to not let your admiration for someone's art cause you to ignore their misdeeds. We had a lot of "my fave would *never!!!* " back in July, and it was unhelpful.) Fist bump of being extremely into Eddings as a teen. I didn't find out until a few years ago, either.
@@Dumpsterfiregrace I imagine there are many similar stories. The Belgariad is well loved for good reason. Awful when you find out the author did something so horrendous.
It’s likely that the Neil Gaiman case is more complicated than it initially appears, I could be wrong mind you, but it still needs to be thoroughly investigated and examined for quite a while before we come to any solid conclusions.
@@bookssongsandothermagic Thank you for understanding that point (unlike so many people on Reddit). I admit I believe that Gaiman should be in intensive psychiatric care and not behind bars, but obviously it’s going to be quite a while before we get any more updates on the matter. Hopefully investigators will be both thoughtful and thorough when looking into this tragic case, and will look at it from every possible angle.
I think theres a difference between connecting with a work of art and putting humans a pedestal Ultimately, when i say don't have heroes i don't mean not to have people you admire but don't hero worship those people.
OMG I hate it when people comment to this sort of vid saying how they never liked Gaiman's books, but I never liked eddings. Couldn't get into him though got no vibe but I still adore the magic in Gaiman's books and I will not take that from myself because a person's ability to channel a story has nothing to do with what they do in their personal life for me. It's about taking something as it is and if you like it like it. I can't know what the person is like who made my favorite ring or my favorite dress etc so why allow yourself to care once you do know? It's just fake. I mean if it's about not enjoying anything fom a jerk or perve it's impossible to know, frankly. Not having idols helps too. I care nothing for him so I care nothing for this situation. Those girls need to be accountable too for saying no, using their legs to walk out, I do not think he'd stop them, but no, did you know they wrote him love letters after the fact and became involved? How is he supposed to know they mind? Yes I think he's a pushy perve but I do believe he'd step back if the woman was firm. Their damage before him is what caused this and it really isn't his problem. Girls saying that it should be is just handing men power they should not have. Sorry as a woman I am saying, girls this ain't the road to girl power. Bella L
Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful and nuanced take on a really difficult and upsetting topic. It’s so challenging to reconcile admiration for an artist’s work with the knowledge of their actions, especially when those actions cause harm. Your reflections on drawing the line between appreciating their creative influence and honoring the pain of victims really hit home.
I also appreciated your point about not abandoning the idea of role models entirely. It’s easy to become cynical and assume the worst, but as you said, the majority of creative figures who inspire us do so without these kinds of dark revelations attached to them. It’s a reminder that creativity and influence can be deeply meaningful while still holding space for accountability and critical engagement.
Your honesty and willingness to grapple with these complex questions make this such an important conversation. Thanks for tackling this so thoughtfully.
Really appreciated the point about not giving up on having role models, not assuming "every celebrity is the same"
not every celebrity. men in power.
@@VeganBambi Like Marion Zimmer Bradley,Alice Munroe and Allison Mack? Like Ghislaine Maxwell?
As well, 'all celebrities are the same' can lead to an attitude of 'nothing can be done', but every single cause needs to be held accountable so that those who are doing right can continue to do what they do and inspire people.
Absolutely agree with what you said about deviancy not being the norm and the importance of having heroes, whether or nor they're moral people. One of the best writers I know never stopped reading. And one of the worst poets I know has never even read a page of poetry herself because she doesn't want to be influenced. It takes HUMILITY to be influenced in the art. It takes humility to grow.
Well said. Personally, I’d take it a step further and say that even people who do bad things can be good creative influences, just not moral ones.
@@BookBlather yeah that’s what I was trying to say at the end. Thanks Dave, glad we agree.
I agree. I love Gaiman's books and the magical place they take me to, but I would never hang with him. Not into perves. lol.
Bella L
Absolutely agree. Books are a product. We purchase a product on our whims and desires. Nothing in the purchase promises (nor should it) that the creator of the product is a morally upright person. The good or bad people do in their personal lives is, whether we like it ot not, their business at least until the law steps in. Gaiman was and still is one of fave writers. But I wont burn or throw away his books even if he is guilty because supporting his work in the past was a commercial choice, not a moral one. We shouldn't condemn people for choosing to keep what they want of a creator.
Great video that adds to the conversation.
@@M-J thanks MJ
I agree that it's both hasty and lazy to think "every celebrity is the same," but it's also important to remember a few things.
1. Obnoxious, immoral, and sometimes even criminal behavior may be overlooked or "hushed up" when the perpetrator is considered too monetarily advantageous to lose.
2. It is easy for anyone who spends significant portions of his/her life being adored to begin feeling entitled.
3. It is also easy to decieve ourselves into believing we "know" someone when we connect with some piece of their creative work.
In some ways, I miss the pre-internet days when I would purchase and read a book without knowing a blasted thing about the author beyond what was printed on the back cover. Yeah, I'm sure one could pursue information even then, but it took a certain amount of effort, and there wasn't the 24/7/365 bombardment of newsfeeds.
Edit: I can't believe Jim Henson has been gone for that long already. 😢
Fantastic comment, I agree completely.
Gaiman was raised in Scientology, so I didn’t expect him to have much empathy.
I had no idea about Eddings, so thanks for letting me know that. I'm done with these people.
@@pickyourpopculturepoison heartbreaking and shocking isn’t it
Unfortunately I found out about Eddings a couple years ago.
I have wanted to include Neil Gaiman in many of my videos last year. I refuse to do so because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Agree that it is shocking and upsetting, but not the norm.
We all have both light and dark inside us. Everyone is walking a tightrope. Fame is also insidious, which would be a factor and an enabler.
It's really hard to know how to react when people who have created enjoyable things and yet also have given in to their darker side. Does everything related to the person then become bad too? Should we feel guilt if you still enjoy their lighter side?
I don't condone bad and criminal behaviour but by the same token it seems wrong to suddenly hate or erase something that was once enjoyable by association. Especally if they no longer benefit financially from it and their transgressions are not swept under the rug. Also if other people were also involved who had nothing to do with it and knew nothing.
It's a tough one and everyone deals with it differently.
I so much respect your integrity and decision to err on the side of caution to not disrespect the victims and potential victims. I agree we should have role models --- and we should BE role models. This was a great talk. 😊
amanda helped to get women for neil to abuse
im seriously bothered by those who claim many knew of his behaviour all the way back in the 90s
i dont buy these claims
I think with cases like these there will be some false stuff added to the facts. I heard about Amanda sending someone to Neil - one of the women revealing her story.
Thank you for saying this! On a more pragmatic level, I keep thinking about all those "don't have heroes"/"don't put people on pedestals" comments, "Great, enjoy rewiring the human brain!" We look up to and learn from people so naturally. How on earth are you going to stop that? Also, it's reasonable to assume the majority of SF/F authors are not in fact doing things that would make TH-cam screen this comment. (I guess the actual take away would be to not let your admiration for someone's art cause you to ignore their misdeeds. We had a lot of "my fave would *never!!!* " back in July, and it was unhelpful.)
Fist bump of being extremely into Eddings as a teen. I didn't find out until a few years ago, either.
Very thoughtful & nuanced! I completely agree.
@@reiannaisreading thank you so much!!
Agree! And I didn't know about Jim Henson, that's cool :)
My first rat was named Polgara.
@@Dumpsterfiregrace I imagine there are many similar stories. The Belgariad is well loved for good reason. Awful when you find out the author did something so horrendous.
Oh god, what did edgings do? Another old favourite author ruined?
@@sarahhale-pearson533 yeah he sexually abused his adopted children - crazy....
Oh dear lord!@@bookssongsandothermagic
Thank heavens. You’re a good man. I think your decision is good.
Nice discussion, Gareth.
Great thoughts
It’s likely that the Neil Gaiman case is more complicated than it initially appears, I could be wrong mind you, but it still needs to be thoroughly investigated and examined for quite a while before we come to any solid conclusions.
Absolutely - we're reacting to reports and journalists' articles etc....that's not a trial.
@@bookssongsandothermagic Thank you for understanding that point (unlike so many people on Reddit).
I admit I believe that Gaiman should be in intensive psychiatric care and not behind bars, but obviously it’s going to be quite a while before we get any more updates on the matter.
Hopefully investigators will be both thoughtful and thorough when looking into this tragic case, and will look at it from every possible angle.
I think theres a difference between connecting with a work of art and putting humans a pedestal
Ultimately, when i say don't have heroes i don't mean not to have people you admire but don't hero worship those people.
OMG I hate it when people comment to this sort of vid saying how they never liked Gaiman's books, but I never liked eddings. Couldn't get into him though got no vibe but I still adore the magic in Gaiman's books and I will not take that from myself because a person's ability to channel a story has nothing to do with what they do in their personal life for me. It's about taking something as it is and if you like it like it. I can't know what the person is like who made my favorite ring or my favorite dress etc so why allow yourself to care once you do know? It's just fake. I mean if it's about not enjoying anything fom a jerk or perve it's impossible to know, frankly.
Not having idols helps too. I care nothing for him so I care nothing for this situation. Those girls need to be accountable too for saying no, using their legs to walk out, I do not think he'd stop them, but no, did you know they wrote him love letters after the fact and became involved? How is he supposed to know they mind? Yes I think he's a pushy perve but I do believe he'd step back if the woman was firm. Their damage before him is what caused this and it really isn't his problem. Girls saying that it should be is just handing men power they should not have. Sorry as a woman I am saying, girls this ain't the road to girl power.
Bella L
Please don't victim shame.
Also check up fawning behaviour in abuse...
It might help you understand.