what about real-life (i.e. real road) shifting? Shifting under power, on climbs, shifting from small to big on climbs, cross-chaining.... are they different? Being able to use Ltwoo with previous 11 speed wheels is enough advantage for me.
@@scherzo0o very smooth during rides but i didnt really do any proper climbing with it under load. Berlin doesnt offer much elevation for this unfortunately 😂😂. For me also the 11 speed compatibility is a major feature.
exactly! Especially considering 11 and 10-speed will get cheaper and cheaper. I'm really thinking about getting the LTwoo. I currently ride shimano and would love it if I could keep my chainset and cassette. Also not needing to change the body on my indoor trainer would be nice. The only downside is that my frame is not di2 compatible.. So I would need one or two zipties on my rear stay
If not because of patent blocks everywhere, L-Twoo could end up with more refined shifting. It would be more interesting to see how L-Twoo shifts in harsh conditions, for example, when you are pedalling really hard, or does it react as quick as single tapping when you are multi-tapping. I noticed that HG and HG+ is really a bonus once you starts to climb steep slopes, very useful in terms of maintaining your cadence. Honestly, electronic shifting should not be this expensive by any means and I do hope manufacturer like L-Twoo can smash Shimano's dominance in the market.
Agreed i also hope it will wake up the market a bit and bring some competition. So far it is riding very smoothly but as i dont have any proper hills here in Berlin i didnt really test under load yet 🫣
The nice thing about Ltwoo is each gear can be individually tuned to get perfect shifting, that feature doesn't exist on Shimano. So that odd shifting on the single gear can be fixed.
Wheeltop is also coming in with their EDS lineups and offering rim brake options. Even if most people don't trust these chinese manufactures enough right now, we should all be happy because competition is ultimately going to benefit everyone.
@@klein-concept Not much new info aside from China Cycling's cover during the Shanghai Bike Show, titled "AERO BIKES GALORE at the Shanghai Bike Show. Winspace, Bross, Rollingstone and more!" at 10:47. I think it's projected to release some time early 2024. (Can't paste URL...)
As far as I am aware L-Twoo doesn't currently have any extra buttons - the ability to program the buttons on the top of the hoods is good for shifting in the aero-hoods position. Then the ability to add sprinter or climb buttons is also great.
Very good point which i completely forgot. I really like the top buttons to switch between my headunit pages. But as my favourite bike has a mechanical setup i actually forget that i have these buttons whenever i ride electronic 🫣
@klein-concept I do the same, previously I only had Di2 on my TT bike and having the extra shift buttons by the brakes is great out of tight turns - though half the time I would forget! Just got a road groupset and have programed the top buttons to chsnge the rear mech - which as noted is great in the aero hoods position. Love the idea of being able to change between 12spd & 11spd on the L-Twoo as all my bikes are 11spd. A TT option and mechanical brake version would be good to see in the future particularly as the man brands reduce their rim brake options.
Wasn't expecting a review section in the comments when i sorted by newest 😂 First off thanks for your videos on the eRX groupset, your install video helped me a lot with my eR9 install. The build quality, shifting, app integration all exceeded my expectations and i think bodes well for the future when they sort out the issues and introduce a second generation product or refresh. Its unfortunate a lot of people have issues with this groupset, mainly around the old battery leaf spring design and weather sealing. But nagging issues is to be expected with any first generation product. A similar experience ive had was with Bambu labs' 3d printers, they rapidly came to market with an affordable and quality printer which offered far more functionality at a much lower price than the offerings on the market. However had some setbacks with cloud security, stability and logistics. Now they're matured into a giant of the industry with all the existing players scrambling to catchup. Ltwoo really has that chance here but desperately needs to step up their customer support and have a proper store front/presence to build a community that believes in them.
Thanks a lot. Glad to hear that it was helpful. I fully agree with your comment. They are the new kid on the block with lots of cool ideas and potential. They need a group like us who supports them and also points them at the problem areas on where they should be focusing their work on to be accepted by the wider mass market. 🤜🤛
Thanks. Yes, much cheaper than DuraAce but so is Ultegra and it’s as good as DuraAce. 105 is the true comparable competition and the prices are much closer. I’d get the 105 myself for now.
Would have loved to compare it with the 105 Di2 but dont have one at home. But you are right. Still interesting to see that even compared to a Dura Ace there is no obvious downside (at least in my eyes) except weight.
As for the erx you can see that when the rd upshifts it slightly overshifts, to make sure that the chain will slide onto the bigger cog and then it realligns the jockey cage to be parallel to the cog. This what you sometimes do with mechanical shifters that when you upshiftb and the ratchet clicks over to the lowe gear, you kind of give a slight further push on the shifter paddle to 'help' the chain to slide onto the cog. Pretty neat and clever. I haven't observed this on the di2 rd. Also, the full range up and down shift with trigger hold is noticeably faster on the ltwoo rd than on di2.
Yes there are some smart solutions in the erx group. Especially the adjustability per cog is really making things a lot easier compared to a di2 setup.
Michael this was so wellndone and very enlightening. It appeared that with the press and hold the eRX was faster. For me, the tactile sensation would weight very heavily... but the price difference is a lot.
Thanks so much. Big fan of your channel so very happy to see you here. The L-Twoo actually feels great in my hands and every shift feels solid and reliable as well. If they would now make a rim brake version we would have a winner 🤩
This video is about erx, but I think it's worth mentioning because the hydraulic system is the same for all their road levers: I had their GR9 hydraulic groupset and I am disappointed. The shifting resistance is appauling. I used ltwoo's supplied cable and a.jagwire housing. The cable looks good quality. Copper-colored so maybe it's coated with something. It's definitely polished and smooth so maybe it's the cheap housing or the fact that I routed it on the front side of the handlebar where the horizontal bent is bigger forcing the housing to bent more. The levers have another groove to route the housing on the back side of the handle bar for a less bent of the housing so I must give it a try. But the worst thing is that the left lever bleed port screw is tightened so hard that it won't budge. I stripped and rounded its head trying to loosen it and now it's stuck forever. Suprisingly I was able to bleed the system using just one syringe plugged into the caliper so from top to bottom, but it's not ideal. Eventually I opened a dispute because the seller offered only a replacement bolt claiming that I damaged it because I used the wrong tools. Ali took my side and offered a free return with a full refund which I accepted and got my money back in 3 days. Then I ordered the groupset from ltwoo's official ali store and asked them to check these bolts before shipping explaining what was my problem but the simply refused stating that they already check it during assembly and they will not do it again for me. Talking about good customer service here. I also suspect that this issue was because somone who was assembling that particular lever mistaken the lever bleed port with the caliper one and tightened it to 7 nm instead of 1-1.5 nm as per their installation/bleed manual available for download from their home website (nor the shop website). Other drawbacks: 1. Rubber of the hoods is slippery although it has a matte feel to it and has a texture. Shimano's hoods are way more grippy. 2. To save manufacturing costs, for the left lever they use a lever from a 2x groupset (maybe rx) because it has guiding groves for the shifter housing under the hood. They simply just don't put the cable ratchet pulley and shifitng paddle and trigger. That's ok but without this ratchert, there's a gaping hole underneath the lever where all the gunk and dust may build up. Also while on the hoods having your index and middle fingers wrapped around the hood, you can feel that hole and it's edges under the fingers tips which is uncomfortable. Especially when you grasp firmly while pedalling hard out of the saddle uphill. How much would it cost them to desing a simple plate cover with an i.e. elastic latch similar to those of battery compartments in tv remote controllers? 3. Downshift trigger is in awkward position. Its position and overall lever shape is heavily inspired by Campagnolo Ekar levers which apparently have the same problem which Paul from Mapdec Cycles reported in one of his reels. On the hoods to reach it you have to sort of lift your hand and twist it inwards. also when pressing down the trigger, if you have your fingers wrapped underneath the lever, they are right under the trigger and obstruct its downward travel so you also have to move them away. I would expect the trigger to be place more towards the front of the lever just like it is in ltwoo's mechanical road levers like r9, r7, r5... Also, it offers up to 3-4 downshift with single push. I think this is unnecessary, because it causes excessive unwanted downshifts. It could be justified in the road RX groupset in finish line sprint situations, but this is a gravel groupset so I think it's pointless and useless. On the plus side, the trigger is ergonomic and right were you'd look for it while on the drops. 4. Lever instllation is troublesome. The bolt clamp is located in the center of the lever body so the vertical part with the master cylinder obstructs access to it to an extent. Also, the bolt is very hard to reach becuse the rubber of the hood is very tight and does not peel off enough to expose the bolt. You need to have an extended hex wrench with a ball-head end and prefferably with an attachable handle. With a standard-sized wrench it will be very hard to reach the bolt. For comparison, in Shimano levers the bolt is on the outer side of the lever body and it only takes to slide the wrench under the hood to reach it. 5. The rear derailleur isa bit too big. I've installed it on an Accent Furious Pro frame and noticed that if I loosen the b-tention screw too much, the front of the derailleur where the clutch is located touches the chainstay and wedges on it preventing normal operation. Also, the part of the derailleur with this clutch is visibally made out of some kind of composite material, probably based on nylon. It's definitely not metal. The rest of the parts, like the pantograph, pulley cage are indeed metal. Unless you buy a version with a carbon pulley cage of course. Pros: 1. Overall quality is good. The logo imprints are good. They are thick and have a nice sort of brushed aluminum texture. 2. The shape of the hoods and lever blades is ergonomic. They feel good under the fingers both on the hoods and on the drops. A this point I honestly do not recommend GR9. It's not worth the risk. I can recommend R5 because I have had these levers for two years now and they have not failed so far although the shifting resistance is also quite strong but not as strong as with these GR9 eventough I have the shifting cable routed along the front of the handlebar as well . The overall build quality and shifting is comparable to Shimano Sora.
Thanks for the detailed review of your experience. Sorry to hear that it doesnt seem to be a great one so for. Unfortunately i never tried the Gr groupset. I only have two of the erx groups and one mechanical rx group. While the mechanical is still not mounted, i so far really enjoyed the erx. I think a lot is really down to customer service at this point. If L-Twoo want to play in the western market they need to step up their game here to be more responsive and to provide replacement parts quickly. Glad to hear you like your r9 tho 🤜🤛
Thank you. The eRX weight is more in line with the 105 Di2 weight. So i think there should be around 300g of weight difference between these two when you put all the components (except crankset) together.
It seems LTwoo is ironing out the kinks and things are starting to look refined. I'm leaning towards getting either the ER9 or ERX at this point. The ER9 is significantly cheaper.
@@felixhawkins5922 I think you're confused. ER9 is the alloy version. ERX is the carbon version. Only difference are the carbon brake levers and the carbon jockey wheel cage with the ERX. I believe the weight difference is less than 60g. Though the ER9 (at least during the last AliEx sale after discount) could be purchased for less than $500 USD.
Most Chinese groupsets shift well if you use a good chain + cassette Currently tuning sensah empire 2x11 with the sensah cranks but ultegra chain + cassette, no issues Most of the shifting issues come from the poorly made cheap Chinese cassettes, not to say some brands are starting to make better cassettes
That is a very good point and great for us as consumers as i hope that Shimano and Sram are also seeing the competition coming up and putting up pressure to either properly innovate or to work on their prices.
I have recently installed eR9 on my bike. So far, so good! The only missing thing is the trim. While the manual trim works, there is currently no way of going back to non-trimmed position. For example, if you go to larger chain ring, then trim it, the only way to go back to the non-trimmed position is to go to smaller chainring then back. I was thinking, maybe LTWOO can allow another click of the same button to go back to the previous non-trimmed position. Or am I missing something?
The key to me is how they do under load and also how the front derailleur works, especially u der load. Also of course if LTWOO has solved their reliability issues (and water ingress?). That is maybe just a matter of time. We certainly need a cheaper option. It is cool that you can use it with 10, 11, or 12 sp. It certainly looks good here.
I am currently using it on my trainer with no issues under load so far but will give it a proper try the next days and pay attention to it. Regarding water i just uploaded a small update video a couple days ago. 🤜🤛
Up to this day your video is the best available. Just not a big difference on the shifting in both front and rear derailleurs. Amazing how people buys very expensive staff just to show off brands. Amateurs should spend more time on the bike getting fit instead of spending ridiculous money on brands. Keep up the amazing videos. ❤❤
I love a good mechanical setup. My favourite bike that i own is also mechanical. But yes this electronic groupset seems to be pretty much all you need if you re not racing in the big tour 😂😂😂
micro adjusting on the L-TWOO definitely helps. the downshifts are, exempt from 11-12 which was as "loud" as Dura Ace, way smoother. Dura Ace was really "loud" on the the bottom half on the cassette.
Highly doubt it. They can't afford to, mainly due to the sheer scale of their overhead and R&R/Marketing expenses. I think Shimano's way of trying to "combat" this was their new release of the mechanical 105 they just released at an "affordable" price, which is still about $1,000. I'd steer towards eRx all day for the same price.
Sram and shimano should offer more adjustments and functions. They should let you adjust each sprocket individually. Sram rear derailleur shifts faster if there is no front derailleur so in the sequential mode you could chose to shift front derailleur automatically and rear one faster. Problem for L-Twoo is that rival and 105 di2 groupsets are cheaper.
Yes i agree. Being able to adjust each sprocket is a real upgrade. So much easier to set things up initially. Regarding the price i hope that it will come down a bit once the hype cools down. Lets see.
It didnt really rain here (at least not during times where i could have jumped out on the bike) but i see the one and only legend GC Performance in here. So recommend you have a look at his review 🤜🤛
One issue with Chinese brands is that they constantly change their products, there is no final release of a product. You never know which version you get. As example @GCPerformance18 had a aluminum backplate on one eRX derailleur while it was carbon on the other. This might be a quality control issue or they changed the product you never know.
Fully agreed. This is an essential topic they need to get under control same for good support outside of China. Otherwise they will always stay the underdog. But i think there is potential.
Would be good if you could actually buy the L-Twoo eRX at a decent price. Right now, the price is similar to that of a Shimano 105 Di2. And given how things are going on with China, I don't think it'll get any better any time soon.
It might also be a demand problem. Currently the groupset seems very hyped. Once that cools down a bit i guess the prices will come down. There is also a new cheaper version called the eR9 i think which uses aluminium instead of carbon parts.
Thanks for the video, quite a bit of work you have done. Just one quick simple question. From what I have read it appears that the L-Two is a similar weight to 105. Do you know the total amount of weight difference between the two as the L-Two groupset does not contain all the components such as rotors or cranks. Thanks
Thanks a lot. I m on the go now but have a look at my L Twoo unboxing video. I listed the weights in the description. Otherwise happy to add it in here when im back home tomorrow.
How is the groupset going for you so far? I am in torn between a mechanical Ultegra and LTwoo ER9 all due to the issues of the other users were facing. Might be a little unfair because what they got was a beta version of product but it's still an issue anyway.
For me it still works well but i have only done around 250 km on it. So if you want to go for electronic you might want to give it a try but at the same time an Ultegra mechanical is also an amazing groupset.
It’s great that this exists, however, I have yet to hear from any of these reviews about repairability, availability of spare parts, etc. being cheap is not enough and shouldn’t be the selling point….
Thats true. That will most likely be more difficult than looking at major brands but i would expect that if they want to get into the worldwide markets they will have to extend their distribution network.
The “Blue” Edition is for sale now but the problem is that none of their official dealers have it. That’s my problem here in Thailand. L-Twoo told me that it available but don’t want to sell it to me as I am individual. They just refer me to their dealer here in Thailand and he is only willing to sell me the old version as he does not have the new version on stock. Frustrating
I think the shimano ones look better as they are a bit more compact but on the other hand i feel like i have a more secure grip on the L-Twoo s because of the slightly taller build. No rattle on the shifters. I know this was an issue for the one and only Trace Velo but if i remember correctly that was on the mechanical version.
With DuraAce, the weight savings is what you are paying for. With the old mech shifting, Dura Ace’s shifting was smooth as butter. Electronic shifting evens the playing field a bit. Sensah Empire Pro weighs about the same as Ultegra. What is the weight comparison for LTwoo?
What about diffferent wattages? Will it remain as smooth at 300 watts for example? I know when I shift I'll drop power very very quickly so shifting is always smooth, but maybe it's still a nice comparison to find the limits
Good question. I still need to do some proper climbs and sprints with it. Will keep you posted here or make a new video if there is something interesting to report 🤜🤛
It appears as if L-Twoo have changed their battery holder, battery spring contact was changed to address the issue per GC Performance. Tough to tell really from the video, but do you have 5 to 6 millimeters of clearance between the largest cog teeth and the upper jockey wheel teeth? It looks quite excessive in the video. Was the LT much faster in the hold the button test? Just curious. Thanks.
Yeah I saw that also...shorten your chain one link and you should be able to tighten up the rear mech jockey closer to the cogs. That will make the shifting even better.
Thanks for pointing that out. I already shortened it by two links in comparison to the original build video but sounds like there is still room to get rid of another two. 🤜🤛
To my eye I couldn't see a "game-changing" difference between the 2 groupsets. Obviously, the difference lies in the weight between the two, with Dura Ace being way way lighter and L-Twoo weighing in closer to Shimano's third tier DI2 105 groupset. Given L-Twoo is relatively the "new kid on the block", I suspect its next iterations will be to develop groupset options coming in at lighter weights. When this happens and if produced at the comparatively low price point then watch out Shimano & Sram
You do know that with eRx you can change from 10-11-12 speed right? Is that "game-changing" enough for you? Plus you know... The f*king price sure is game changing enough for most people
Agreed. The only situation in some countries is that there are a lot of good 105 Di2 discounts at the moment which lead to the L-Twoo set only being around 200 euros cheaper for a full group. But i guess the L-Twoo price will go further down once the hype cools down a bit.
I'm curious if one can combine dura-ace calipers with these Ltwoo shifters.I have some dura-ace, last generation calipers... and I'd keep those, of possible.
I have a problem with my ERX group set I bought from lltwoo on ally express front mec not working and rear doesn't recognise 11 speed to 12 we think it's the software we have changed the battery but lltwoo are not helping is there a way to reset back to factory settings 🤷😕🤪
Sorry to hear that. Did you try to speak with them via the Ali chat? But the unit shows up properly in the app? Are you able to switch gears from the app? Did you try to disconnect if from power for a while?
@@klein-concept yes we have tried everything they said a engineer will get back to us and we are still waiting frustrating because I have races coming up and can't use the bike I thought it came with a two year warranty 😭
@@lawrencehawkins6076sorry to hear that but based on my experience with Ali express, you’re on your own when stuff goes awry. I’m astonished that people just don’t realise that once payments were made on Ali express, it’s gone and if you’re lucky enough to receive your orders, the chance that you got what you paid for is 50/50.
Only added some in comparison to 105 di2 here (th-cam.com/video/dhrUhAeYDc8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=9RZhwbhiQDGzt5Dx) but didnt want to disassemble my Dura Ace setup. It will be quite a bit heavier than DA.
Im curious what the hoods of the LTWOO compared to the shimano system, im currently on a 105 Groupset and considering the LWTOO so intrested if they feel similar ?
Dont know how they compare to the 105 as i dont have them but compared to the Dura Ace they are quite a bit taller which doesnt look as good but gives you a real good grip and gives you a good feeling of security while on the hoods.
@@klein-concept How many km have you done with it? Any issues so far? I’m asking bc I’ve ordered er9 but I’m on the brink of cancelling my order given the experience of other TH-camrs with this groupset.
I really wonder if I should even bother trying this at the moment. Seems like it breaks down on most people at some point. And no idea how reliably LTWOO handles warranty. @@klein-concept
@@sebastianm2381 that is the question at the moment. I have seen the issues the other youtubers had. So i think it is really depending which batch you get. It is a great groupset when it works but of course if it stops shifting mid ride that is a no go. Might be worth giving this another 2-3 months until they sort out the issues. As i am certain they are working on improving it.
I would start by correctly adjusting Di2 set up, your G-pulley should be closer to the cassette, also front chainring cage gap should be 1-3mm. Shimano ecosystem is far more reliable and performance if far superior. Availability of replacement parts, LBS support, the list goes on. Finally you are comparing an 8 year old technology with the latest (still evolving) L-Twoo. 6 times the price? You can get a 2nd hand Dura-Ace R9170 mini groupset (derailleurs, shifters, callipers) for £800-£900. New 12 speed Dura Ace, is in completely different league, yet the complete groupset cost £2.5k and that's complete with chain, rotors, cassette, chainset, and 3 years warranty. L-Two eRX after shipping and taxes comes close to 1k, you can get Ultegra for that price.
Yes good point in the g pulley adjustment. Still learning lots here so thanks a lot for pointing that out. Been tweaking this on my future builds already. Regarding the price i was comparing it to a new (but old gen) dura ace. As of course if I would now sell the ltwoo It would also be half the price being second hand. But you are absolutely right. The benefit of running Shimano is that you have the network of dealers, quick access to parts and easy repairs which you currently don't get with l twoo. Which for a lot of riders might easily be worth the extra cost.
@@klein-concept Agree, although I only use Shimano, My summer dream bike is a direct import from China, SEKA Exceed RDC, I also have Trek and Cube, but just love SEKA. I think with the right western network, and enough users L-Twoo stands a chance
@@Di2_GP oh Seka Exceed. What a dream bike. Looks beautiful and super light as well. So you re getting one this summer? How are you importing it? If i ve seen it correctly you re also based in Poland?
@@klein-concept I have bought one back in October 22, rode it thru '23. SEKA is releasing a new bike this Saturday! Keep your eyes peeled. I'm from Poland, but live and work in the UK.
I'm not surprised that the L-Twoo shift speed is as fast as Shimano or SRAM's offerings. What concerns me is the quality of their parts. Shimano is practically Toyota: the safest bet in cycling. I'm just sure if I could trust L-Twoo that confidently after hundreds and hundreds of miles without anything breaking.
That is a very good point. You obviously take a bit of a risk being an early adopter with L-Twoo. It might pay out but there is also the chance that you will run into issues and have trouble to get support or replacement parts. I hope that they will level up their game on the support side as well which will be needed to become a proper contender to Shimano or Sram.
I am rooting for L-Twoo and Sensah, prices have really gone OTT and need to come down. However, the breakthrough will only come if and when consistency, reliability and product support are deemed to be good enough for bike manufacturers to offer factory builds with Chinese groupsets.
Agreed. That would really make the difference. As a start i could imagine established Chinease brands like Winspace or Yeoleo offering full bikes with these at some point.
@@klein-concept Yes. I have actually suggested to Joe of China Cycling and Pandapodium that they should offer full builds. They seem to be considering it as a longer term project only.
@@klein-concept I once bought the sensah empire pro groupset and paid anti dumping tax. Paid nearly double, don't want that to happen can you advise me. I ended up paying almost the same as for shimano ultegra r8000. Es fallen dabei Drittlandszoll in Höhe von 14%, die Einfuhrumsatzsteuer in Höhe von 19% und Antidumpingzölle in Höhe von 48,5% an.
@@andrewmurgatroyd9214 krass. Das hatte ich bisher noch nie und ich hab schon gruppen, felgen und rahmen aus china bestellt. Da hatte hoffentlich ein zollmitarbeiter nur einen schlechten tag.
Da gibts leider nicht allzuviel zu berichten, denn es läuft bei mir weiterhin sauber. Ich baue aber diese woche ein neues gravel rad und da packe ich noch eine erx gruppe drauf. Da kann ich gerne kurz über meine erfahrungen berichten. 🤜🤛
Cool! Das freut mich und das zieh ich mir gerne rein. Ich bin kurz davor den Button für eine er9 als Weihnachtsgeschenk an mich zu drücken. Weisst du noch ob du die Gruppe noch versteuern musstest, oder gab es bei LTWOO eine shipping option die das inkludiert? Die antworten mir leider auf nichts und ich kenne niemanden der eine gruppe hat @@klein-concept
@@SaschaRissling ich hab um die 25 euro zoll oder steuern auf die gruppe gezahlt. Manchmal hast du glück und es rutscht durch und manchmal muss man es beim zoll abholen bzw bei lieferung bezahlen.
I mean it is not just some website. So far Aliexpress was pretty reliable for me but you are very right with the parts. I think they will need to invest into a proper network outside of China to provide proper service.
@@klein-concept I think having L-twoo enter into the market is a good thing. As of now, we pretty much have a duopoly on groupsets. Whereas other components of the bicycle are more open. cheers.
Random question, anyway to setup Ltwoo for a TT bike? If I have Shimano electronic shifters, will these work with Ltwoo? Only ask as nothing exists like this in the market currently
@@klein-concept ah I see, really appreciate the response 🙌👍. Ah back to the drawing board. Not sure the market is big enough for mass production for ltwoo vs regular bike groupsets. You’ve tempted me regardless for the road bike setup, looks awesome. Thanks for making this video
@@mikeakers1327 glad you enjoyed it. I agree that market is maybe a bit small at the moment but once they establish themselves maybe they will also move into this space.
I think for me to consider spending my money on these groupsets. I'd need a slightly lower price, it's not much of a difference as you can get entry level electronic from shimano or Sram for around £1000. And also have a final release of a product, seems to be different every time I watch a video
I own bikes with Ultegra Di2, Sram Rival eTap, and ltwoo's Erx which I've been testing for about 500km now... and weight wise its somewhere between ultegra and DuraAce. Shift peed, far better than Rival and slightly quicker than Ultegra. All in all when you compare value for money, you're getting something that sits between ultegra and dura-ace for less than the price of 105 and rival electronic. I think we have a clear value proposition here. The ONLY thing I think they need to throw into the mix at this point is selling a complete group, as I've yet to find a Chinese branded crankset for my full Chinese build that is robust yet lightweight and can compete with sram and Shimano. They are working on this nonetheless with a partner factory and there's hope they'll bring it to market in the coming months.
@@AbielRuiz very happy to hear your experience and review. Btw there are some good carbon cranksets on Pandapodium which might be interesting for you. 🤜🤛
@@AbielRuiz yeah that's fair, I'm sure it's a fantastic groupset. Until it settles down I'd be concerned with getting replacement parts in the not to distant future. New batteries and so on, warranty is also a concern of mine. As if I spent a little more I'd get the peace of mind of a big established company & longevity. It's cool that other companies are making waves in a very dominated market though! Hopefully we'll see some price drops from Sram & Shimano to keep competitive. (wishful thinking) Thank you for your in depth response dude! 🙌
the ltwoo system comes with warranty, and getting replacement parts has been a non-issue for me, as well as some of the other folks that have been testing the system. Their team has been pretty diligent with resolving issues. Also, I don't think the price drops are coming. Unfortunately these BIG companies have to worry about insane overhead and marketing expenses, which they have no choice but to build into the retail price of these products in order to keep their business running. As we know, everything is costing more these days. So I think it's unrealistic for them to drop their prices. What we can see if lower quality products from these big conglomerates to cater to a broader audience. but when comparing to products like the eRx, they won't make sense as far as value is concerned. I think there's a major shift happening and im excited for it.@@jesmondo5785
Why could you patent something like Auto Trim? I mean that's just the consequenz of going to a electric 2x Groupset that the shifter decides where to shift to always have the perfect chain line. That's nothing Shimano developed since this is doing every athlete with a mechanical shifting group every time.
Lets all buy the L Two. Nevermind human rights, fair wages, freedom of speach. As long as it doesn`t afect my life it doesn`t matter where and how this kind of products are made.
Do I need to explane the lack of respect for intelectual property, property rights on patents, fair salaries, human rights, freedom of speech in the country where this product comes from? Do I need to say that by buying their products we are giving a small contribution??? Really??? Do I need to say that we should all buy from countries where that is respected??? Ok, I know, this company is different.
You ARE a professional because we humans are creators. Practice makes perfect. After a long time of practicing, our work will become natural, skillfull, swift, and steady. Bruce Lee Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, add what is uniquely your own. Bruce Lee “Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth.” ― Muhammad Ali 💯 :)awesome
wow, that was really close. The Di2 is definitely very refined and super smooth and flawless but the eRX is sooo close. For everyday riding should be fine. As they update it , hopefully through firmware it will get better and better. Too bad to see the auto trim go but I guess if you learned how to ride without it, not a big deal. very tempting to purchase. I'll wait a bit to see if more improvements come in. Let us know in a few months if more firmware updates come in and things are even more smooth.
Thanks for the reply. That's awesome! Thanks! I just overhauled my bike with sensah 11 spd and juin tech brakes. I'm super excited to try the eRX in the future. Looking for a new frame.@@klein-concept
I would never buy this stuff. The company is using customers and customers money to develop the product. The quality of it is obviously garbage compared to Shimano
Fair if you dont want to experiment with these kind of components. Still good to have them entering the market because it will impact on how Shimano or Sram will act in regards to innovation or pricing. But where do you see that it is OBVIOUSLY garbage? For me and lots of other viewers this seems to be performing great in this comparison.
@@klein-concept look at the quality of the manufacturing of the components especially the hoods. They look like they have come out of a play-doh mould. I would rather buy mechanical Tiagra over L Twoo anything every day
Plot twist: all companies use the customers' money to develop their products. How do you know what the quality is like if you haven't bought it? Low IQ comment is low IQ
@@simonwalker2460 guess its a matter of taste. And thats fine. Nobody is forcing anybody to like anything here. But I m having a dura ace mechanical, a dura ace di2 here and i still really like the touch and feel of the L-Twoo. Even so much that i think i will buy another group for the next bike build.
Mala comparacion, cuando muestras los dos cambios juntos, el dura ace esta a mas cadencia que el l-twoo, por eso es un poco mas lento, tiene que ser a la misma cadencia . Hay un salto el el video en el minuto 7.01, es como para hacer parecer el el dura ace va a la misma cadencia , lo cual no es asi, la prueba con el l-twoo lo hicistes con menos cadencia y con el dura ace con mas cadencia. Logico que con mas cadencia el cambio es mas rapido. Mal tu video
@@ugghhhyoutubeisawful646 i have only ridden it through light rain once so far without any issues. Wasnt a proper rainstorm tho. Lets see once autumn comes.
oh wow, thanks for responding. i just found your channel. the second vid i watched was really great like i said/commented on it. ill tune it to see any updates! anyway, i think it was the third time in the rain (not a storm but pretty wet for about 2 hrs on that ride) and the whole thing just stopped working. we (myself and a pretty reputable mech) never got it to work again (responded with a few sounds and squeaks but no shifting) and sent it back,@@klein-concept
@@thedownunderverse i see the China label on a couple of Shimano parts these days as well but aside of that when i look at more complex products like my phone, my laptop, my headphones, my harddrive i see made in China. Of course there are exceptions and wide ranges of quality but I dont think you should exclude products only because they are manufactured in China.
@@klein-concept oh, you don’t think so, do you? Oh well that changes everything. I’ll just forget about the Chinese exploiting my country, threatening my country, and making more and more locals homeless, and looking down on us as though we deserve that. 🙄 Jog on please.
this whole comparison video is just a joke . only a joke. an urgent improvement regarding the l-twoo groupset is the replacement of the shit batteries included with batteries from a respected maker, like varta or panasonic .lithium type and more mA
Everybody can have an opinion. So fair that you didnt like it, but if you dont enjoy some content in the future, it always helps the creator to add a little bit of background on what didnt work for you on this one so that the creator can learn from it and make it a better channel in the future. Hugs from Berlin
@@9118693223 seen the first comment. Appreciate the edit. I actually ordered it without batteries and put some panasonic into the shifters and the best i could find for the derailleurs. If it doesnt shift well for others that is nothing i can really cover but only show how my setup performs, which i think it does quite well. At the same time i have seen the front derailleur failing on some others which speaks for poor quality assurance but i think this is something they can get under control with some extra effort.
Update here: th-cam.com/video/1Cmb-VGhjQI/w-d-xo.html
The LTWOO can be programed for 10,11, or 12speed. that is a big plus so you do not have to buy more or new wheels.
Yes i love that about this system. Even tho i think on mine it is only 11 or 12 speed. 🤔
Only 11 and 12, gc perf was just wrong
what about real-life (i.e. real road) shifting?
Shifting under power, on climbs, shifting from small to big on climbs, cross-chaining.... are they different?
Being able to use Ltwoo with previous 11 speed wheels is enough advantage for me.
@@scherzo0o very smooth during rides but i didnt really do any proper climbing with it under load. Berlin doesnt offer much elevation for this unfortunately 😂😂. For me also the 11 speed compatibility is a major feature.
exactly! Especially considering 11 and 10-speed will get cheaper and cheaper.
I'm really thinking about getting the LTwoo.
I currently ride shimano and would love it if I could keep my chainset and cassette.
Also not needing to change the body on my indoor trainer would be nice.
The only downside is that my frame is not di2 compatible.. So I would need one or two zipties on my rear stay
The sleeping rear derailleur was from the first gen battery connection. It has since been redesigned.
Thank you. Thats good to know. I thought it was a firmware thing.
Great video. The only erx review that has a direct, on screen comparison to one of the big brands.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it. Think the eRX compared pretty well to this Dura Ace.
If not because of patent blocks everywhere, L-Twoo could end up with more refined shifting. It would be more interesting to see how L-Twoo shifts in harsh conditions, for example, when you are pedalling really hard, or does it react as quick as single tapping when you are multi-tapping. I noticed that HG and HG+ is really a bonus once you starts to climb steep slopes, very useful in terms of maintaining your cadence.
Honestly, electronic shifting should not be this expensive by any means and I do hope manufacturer like L-Twoo can smash Shimano's dominance in the market.
Agreed i also hope it will wake up the market a bit and bring some competition.
So far it is riding very smoothly but as i dont have any proper hills here in Berlin i didnt really test under load yet 🫣
The nice thing about Ltwoo is each gear can be individually tuned to get perfect shifting, that feature doesn't exist on Shimano. So that odd shifting on the single gear can be fixed.
Wheeltop is also coming in with their EDS lineups and offering rim brake options. Even if most people don't trust these chinese manufactures enough right now, we should all be happy because competition is ultimately going to benefit everyone.
@@HoshinoMirai that is exactly my way of thinking. Do you have any more information on the rim brake version?
@@klein-concept Not much new info aside from China Cycling's cover during the Shanghai Bike Show, titled "AERO BIKES GALORE at the Shanghai Bike Show. Winspace, Bross, Rollingstone and more!" at 10:47. I think it's projected to release some time early 2024. (Can't paste URL...)
As far as I am aware L-Twoo doesn't currently have any extra buttons - the ability to program the buttons on the top of the hoods is good for shifting in the aero-hoods position. Then the ability to add sprinter or climb buttons is also great.
Very good point which i completely forgot. I really like the top buttons to switch between my headunit pages. But as my favourite bike has a mechanical setup i actually forget that i have these buttons whenever i ride electronic 🫣
thasnk you for pointing out our chinese resaearch team will make it in 2 months
@klein-concept I do the same, previously I only had Di2 on my TT bike and having the extra shift buttons by the brakes is great out of tight turns - though half the time I would forget! Just got a road groupset and have programed the top buttons to chsnge the rear mech - which as noted is great in the aero hoods position. Love the idea of being able to change between 12spd & 11spd on the L-Twoo as all my bikes are 11spd. A TT option and mechanical brake version would be good to see in the future particularly as the man brands reduce their rim brake options.
@@morrisizing yes. Having this as a rim brake version would really make a big difference. Especially as i tend to go back to rim more and more.
Maybe theyll add them,Im mean pricewise look at the comparison to shimano,wake up call on pricing to them
Wasn't expecting a review section in the comments when i sorted by newest 😂
First off thanks for your videos on the eRX groupset, your install video helped me a lot with my eR9 install.
The build quality, shifting, app integration all exceeded my expectations and i think bodes well for the future when they sort out the issues and introduce a second generation product or refresh.
Its unfortunate a lot of people have issues with this groupset, mainly around the old battery leaf spring design and weather sealing. But nagging issues is to be expected with any first generation product.
A similar experience ive had was with Bambu labs' 3d printers, they rapidly came to market with an affordable and quality printer which offered far more functionality at a much lower price than the offerings on the market. However had some setbacks with cloud security, stability and logistics. Now they're matured into a giant of the industry with all the existing players scrambling to catchup.
Ltwoo really has that chance here but desperately needs to step up their customer support and have a proper store front/presence to build a community that believes in them.
Thanks a lot. Glad to hear that it was helpful.
I fully agree with your comment. They are the new kid on the block with lots of cool ideas and potential. They need a group like us who supports them and also points them at the problem areas on where they should be focusing their work on to be accepted by the wider mass market. 🤜🤛
@Tracevelo L-TWOO eRX groupset completely dead...
But this #Ktwoo company is to help out fast. Oh yeah the competition is on.
:)
Thanks. Yes, much cheaper than DuraAce but so is Ultegra and it’s as good as DuraAce. 105 is the true comparable competition and the prices are much closer. I’d get the 105 myself for now.
Would have loved to compare it with the 105 Di2 but dont have one at home. But you are right. Still interesting to see that even compared to a Dura Ace there is no obvious downside (at least in my eyes) except weight.
@@klein-concept But that's literally what you're paying a premium for Dura-Ace and every other high-end bike part. WEIGHT SAVINGS.
As for the erx you can see that when the rd upshifts it slightly overshifts, to make sure that the chain will slide onto the bigger cog and then it realligns the jockey cage to be parallel to the cog. This what you sometimes do with mechanical shifters that when you upshiftb and the ratchet clicks over to the lowe gear, you kind of give a slight further push on the shifter paddle to 'help' the chain to slide onto the cog. Pretty neat and clever. I haven't observed this on the di2 rd. Also, the full range up and down shift with trigger hold is noticeably faster on the ltwoo rd than on di2.
Yes there are some smart solutions in the erx group. Especially the adjustability per cog is really making things a lot easier compared to a di2 setup.
Michael this was so wellndone and very enlightening.
It appeared that with the press and hold the eRX was faster.
For me, the tactile sensation would weight very heavily... but the price difference is a lot.
Thanks so much. Big fan of your channel so very happy to see you here.
The L-Twoo actually feels great in my hands and every shift feels solid and reliable as well. If they would now make a rim brake version we would have a winner 🤩
@@klein-concept thank you, I always enjoy your content and glad to see you doing this comparo. Keep up the great work👍🏾
@@thegoodwheel 🫶 thank you
This video is about erx, but I think it's worth mentioning because the hydraulic system is the same for all their road levers:
I had their GR9 hydraulic groupset and I am disappointed. The shifting resistance is appauling. I used ltwoo's supplied cable and a.jagwire housing. The cable looks good quality. Copper-colored so maybe it's coated with something. It's definitely polished and smooth so maybe it's the cheap housing or the fact that I routed it on the front side of the handlebar where the horizontal bent is bigger forcing the housing to bent more. The levers have another groove to route the housing on the back side of the handle bar for a less bent of the housing so I must give it a try.
But the worst thing is that the left lever bleed port screw is tightened so hard that it won't budge. I stripped and rounded its head trying to loosen it and now it's stuck forever. Suprisingly I was able to bleed the system using just one syringe plugged into the caliper so from top to bottom, but it's not ideal. Eventually I opened a dispute because the seller offered only a replacement bolt claiming that I damaged it because I used the wrong tools. Ali took my side and offered a free return with a full refund which I accepted and got my money back in 3 days. Then I ordered the groupset from ltwoo's official ali store and asked them to check these bolts before shipping explaining what was my problem but the simply refused stating that they already check it during assembly and they will not do it again for me. Talking about good customer service here. I also suspect that this issue was because somone who was assembling that particular lever mistaken the lever bleed port with the caliper one and tightened it to 7 nm instead of 1-1.5 nm as per their installation/bleed manual available for download from their home website (nor the shop website).
Other drawbacks:
1. Rubber of the hoods is slippery although it has a matte feel to it and has a texture. Shimano's hoods are way more grippy.
2. To save manufacturing costs, for the left lever they use a lever from a 2x groupset (maybe rx) because it has guiding groves for the shifter housing under the hood. They simply just don't put the cable ratchet pulley and shifitng paddle and trigger. That's ok but without this ratchert, there's a gaping hole underneath the lever where all the gunk and dust may build up. Also while on the hoods having your index and middle fingers wrapped around the hood, you can feel that hole and it's edges under the fingers tips which is uncomfortable. Especially when you grasp firmly while pedalling hard out of the saddle uphill. How much would it cost them to desing a simple plate cover with an i.e. elastic latch similar to those of battery compartments in tv remote controllers?
3. Downshift trigger is in awkward position. Its position and overall lever shape is heavily inspired by Campagnolo Ekar levers which apparently have the same problem which Paul from Mapdec Cycles reported in one of his reels. On the hoods to reach it you have to sort of lift your hand and twist it inwards. also when pressing down the trigger, if you have your fingers wrapped underneath the lever, they are right under the trigger and obstruct its downward travel so you also have to move them away. I would expect the trigger to be place more towards the front of the lever just like it is in ltwoo's mechanical road levers like r9, r7, r5... Also, it offers up to 3-4 downshift with single push. I think this is unnecessary, because it causes excessive unwanted downshifts. It could be justified in the road RX groupset in finish line sprint situations, but this is a gravel groupset so I think it's pointless and useless. On the plus side, the trigger is ergonomic and right were you'd look for it while on the drops.
4. Lever instllation is troublesome. The bolt clamp is located in the center of the lever body so the vertical part with the master cylinder obstructs access to it to an extent. Also, the bolt is very hard to reach becuse the rubber of the hood is very tight and does not peel off enough to expose the bolt. You need to have an extended hex wrench with a ball-head end and prefferably with an attachable handle. With a standard-sized wrench it will be very hard to reach the bolt. For comparison, in Shimano levers the bolt is on the outer side of the lever body and it only takes to slide the wrench under the hood to reach it.
5. The rear derailleur isa bit too big. I've installed it on an Accent Furious Pro frame and noticed that if I loosen the b-tention screw too much, the front of the derailleur where the clutch is located touches the chainstay and wedges on it preventing normal operation. Also, the part of the derailleur with this clutch is visibally made out of some kind of composite material, probably based on nylon. It's definitely not metal. The rest of the parts, like the pantograph, pulley cage are indeed metal. Unless you buy a version with a carbon pulley cage of course.
Pros:
1. Overall quality is good. The logo imprints are good. They are thick and have a nice sort of brushed aluminum texture.
2. The shape of the hoods and lever blades is ergonomic. They feel good under the fingers both on the hoods and on the drops.
A this point I honestly do not recommend GR9. It's not worth the risk. I can recommend R5 because I have had these levers for two years now and they have not failed so far although the shifting resistance is also quite strong but not as strong as with these GR9 eventough I have the shifting cable routed along the front of the handlebar as well . The overall build quality and shifting is comparable to Shimano Sora.
Thanks for the detailed review of your experience. Sorry to hear that it doesnt seem to be a great one so for. Unfortunately i never tried the Gr groupset. I only have two of the erx groups and one mechanical rx group. While the mechanical is still not mounted, i so far really enjoyed the erx.
I think a lot is really down to customer service at this point. If L-Twoo want to play in the western market they need to step up their game here to be more responsive and to provide replacement parts quickly.
Glad to hear you like your r9 tho 🤜🤛
I wonder how the weight compares between these two groups! GREAT video.
Thank you. The eRX weight is more in line with the 105 Di2 weight. So i think there should be around 300g of weight difference between these two when you put all the components (except crankset) together.
It seems LTwoo is ironing out the kinks and things are starting to look refined. I'm leaning towards getting either the ER9 or ERX at this point. The ER9 is significantly cheaper.
If the only difference is that the ER9 is using aluminium instead of carbon on some parts i would say, go for it. 🤜🤛
@@klein-concept you can get a carbon or aluminum version for the ER9
@@felixhawkins5922 thank you but what is the difference to the erx then if you can get a carbon er9? 🤔
@@felixhawkins5922 I think you're confused. ER9 is the alloy version. ERX is the carbon version. Only difference are the carbon brake levers and the carbon jockey wheel cage with the ERX. I believe the weight difference is less than 60g. Though the ER9 (at least during the last AliEx sale after discount) could be purchased for less than $500 USD.
It's interesting how with every upshift the LTwoo kind of overshoots and then reverts back to the correct position.
Guess that helps with getting the chain into the new gear more reliable and then back up to keep it silent.
I would expect shifting performance to be similar if both are using Shimano Hyperglide+ components.
Most Chinese groupsets shift well if you use a good chain + cassette
Currently tuning sensah empire 2x11 with the sensah cranks but ultegra chain + cassette, no issues
Most of the shifting issues come from the poorly made cheap Chinese cassettes, not to say some brands are starting to make better cassettes
That is a very good point and great for us as consumers as i hope that Shimano and Sram are also seeing the competition coming up and putting up pressure to either properly innovate or to work on their prices.
@@harrybarrett5085 i have a sunrace cassette on my zwift hub. shifting is by far not as good as my 105 cassette on my bike. running r7000.
I have recently installed eR9 on my bike. So far, so good! The only missing thing is the trim. While the manual trim works, there is currently no way of going back to non-trimmed position. For example, if you go to larger chain ring, then trim it, the only way to go back to the non-trimmed position is to go to smaller chainring then back. I was thinking, maybe LTWOO can allow another click of the same button to go back to the previous non-trimmed position. Or am I missing something?
Very good point, pressing the button again should move you in between both trimmed positions. Good idea.
The key to me is how they do under load and also how the front derailleur works, especially u der load. Also of course if LTWOO has solved their reliability issues (and water ingress?). That is maybe just a matter of time. We certainly need a cheaper option. It is cool that you can use it with 10, 11, or 12 sp. It certainly looks good here.
I am currently using it on my trainer with no issues under load so far but will give it a proper try the next days and pay attention to it. Regarding water i just uploaded a small update video a couple days ago. 🤜🤛
I think I'll will definitely purchase next summer. Let them iron the kinks out and it will probably be £300 by then!
That sounds like a good idea. By then there should be no more manufacturing inconsistencies and a real good firmware in place.
Up to this day your video is the best available. Just not a big difference on the shifting in both front and rear derailleurs. Amazing how people buys very expensive staff just to show off brands. Amateurs should spend more time on the bike getting fit instead of spending ridiculous money on brands.
Keep up the amazing videos. ❤❤
@@borges184 thanks a lot 🫶
have 10 bikes & NO electronic so far BUT this group looks good & affordable,wait till they get the bugs out,GC Performance just did a review on this
I love a good mechanical setup. My favourite bike that i own is also mechanical. But yes this electronic groupset seems to be pretty much all you need if you re not racing in the big tour 😂😂😂
micro adjusting on the L-TWOO definitely helps. the downshifts are, exempt from 11-12 which was as "loud" as Dura Ace, way smoother. Dura Ace was really "loud" on the the bottom half on the cassette.
Good spotting here. 🤜🤛
It's pretty impressive given how much cheaper it is in comparison. I wonder if this will put pressure on the big 2 to lower their prices.
I hope so and this is one of the main reasons why i am so excited about this groupset actually performing well.
to be fair, there is also 105 di2 if you want shimano but dont want to spend as much as dura ace
@@EstelonAgarwaen True, but 105 is still bit more expensive. And it lacks some features that Ultegra/Dura-Ace have
Highly doubt it. They can't afford to, mainly due to the sheer scale of their overhead and R&R/Marketing expenses. I think Shimano's way of trying to "combat" this was their new release of the mechanical 105 they just released at an "affordable" price, which is still about $1,000. I'd steer towards eRx all day for the same price.
Sram and shimano should offer more adjustments and functions. They should let you adjust each sprocket individually. Sram rear derailleur shifts faster if there is no front derailleur so in the sequential mode you could chose to shift front derailleur automatically and rear one faster.
Problem for L-Twoo is that rival and 105 di2 groupsets are cheaper.
Yes i agree. Being able to adjust each sprocket is a real upgrade. So much easier to set things up initially.
Regarding the price i hope that it will come down a bit once the hype cools down. Lets see.
Thanks for the review. I went for 105 di2.
How about water test? Are you brave enough to do that?😅
I did a water test in my recent video I got soaked in massive down pour
It didnt really rain here (at least not during times where i could have jumped out on the bike) but i see the one and only legend GC Performance in here. So recommend you have a look at his review 🤜🤛
One issue with Chinese brands is that they constantly change their products, there is no final release of a product. You never know which version you get. As example @GCPerformance18 had a aluminum backplate on one eRX derailleur while it was carbon on the other. This might be a quality control issue or they changed the product you never know.
Fully agreed. This is an essential topic they need to get under control same for good support outside of China. Otherwise they will always stay the underdog. But i think there is potential.
You have to except things like that from Chinese companies. They just don’t get it.
gc performance got a prerelease and then the official release. that’s why they were different
@@jaeminchoi6756 in the same video he also mentioned he checked with ChinaCycling and the latter thought something's amiss too.
Would be good if you could actually buy the L-Twoo eRX at a decent price. Right now, the price is similar to that of a Shimano 105 Di2. And given how things are going on with China, I don't think it'll get any better any time soon.
It might also be a demand problem. Currently the groupset seems very hyped. Once that cools down a bit i guess the prices will come down. There is also a new cheaper version called the eR9 i think which uses aluminium instead of carbon parts.
Thanks for the video, quite a bit of work you have done. Just one quick simple question. From what I have read it appears that the L-Two is a similar weight to 105. Do you know the total amount of weight difference between the two as the L-Two groupset does not contain all the components such as rotors or cranks. Thanks
Thanks a lot. I m on the go now but have a look at my L Twoo unboxing video. I listed the weights in the description.
Otherwise happy to add it in here when im back home tomorrow.
The 105 di2 comes in around 20 grams lighter, excluding the cranks, rotors and cassett. 962g the L-Twoo, 939g the 105 DI2.
Thanks@@66mikkim
Thanks no problem another comment answered my question. Have a great day
Thanks for the video. Did you noticed that the largest sprocket in the L-Twoo recording is not true?
Thanks a lot but what do you mean with not true? 🤔
@@klein-concept Das größte Zahnrad schwingt.
Ah du hast recht. Komisch, denn die laufen beide auf dem gleichen trainer. 🤔
I need to micro adjust my rear. The front is perfect. If I were racing... I think I would go Ultegra.
But you can micro adjust the eRX. Or doesnt that work for you.
How is the groupset going for you so far? I am in torn between a mechanical Ultegra and LTwoo ER9 all due to the issues of the other users were facing. Might be a little unfair because what they got was a beta version of product but it's still an issue anyway.
For me it still works well but i have only done around 250 km on it. So if you want to go for electronic you might want to give it a try but at the same time an Ultegra mechanical is also an amazing groupset.
It’s great that this exists, however, I have yet to hear from any of these reviews about repairability, availability of spare parts, etc. being cheap is not enough and shouldn’t be the selling point….
Thats true. That will most likely be more difficult than looking at major brands but i would expect that if they want to get into the worldwide markets they will have to extend their distribution network.
The “Blue” Edition is for sale now but the problem is that none of their official dealers have it. That’s my problem here in Thailand.
L-Twoo told me that it available but don’t want to sell it to me as I am individual. They just refer me to their dealer here in Thailand and he is only willing to sell me the old version as he does not have the new version on stock.
Frustrating
@@peteriversen1613 interesting. Maybe they need to go thru dealers to streamline any kind of warranty claims or so
How do the shifters compare, which ones feel better in the hoods? Is there any rattel noises from the L-Twoo?
I think the shimano ones look better as they are a bit more compact but on the other hand i feel like i have a more secure grip on the L-Twoo s because of the slightly taller build.
No rattle on the shifters. I know this was an issue for the one and only Trace Velo but if i remember correctly that was on the mechanical version.
Other reviews already have fault with LTWOO . Are you using the system intensively enough and are you facing the mentioned problems?
I have seen the videos from the other guys but my system is still running well. On the other hand i have only put around 250km on it so far.
Thanks you for the review, what kind of cassette and chain are you using for ltwoo setup?
In this video it is a 11 speed ultegra cassette.
Geiles Video. Hattest du akku Probleme? Gibt es Software Updates?
Danke dir. Ne bisher keine probleme mit dem akku. 🤜🤛 Es gab in der zwischenzeit glaube ich 2 firmware updates.
With DuraAce, the weight savings is what you are paying for. With the old mech shifting, Dura Ace’s shifting was smooth as butter. Electronic shifting evens the playing field a bit. Sensah Empire Pro weighs about the same as Ultegra. What is the weight comparison for LTwoo?
It is closer to a 105 Di2 setup.
eRX Shifters: 443.6g
105 Di2 Shifters: 442g
eRX front derailleur: 140.1g
105 Di2 front derailleur: 138g
eRX rear derailleur: 281g
105 Di2 rear derailleur: 301g
What about diffferent wattages? Will it remain as smooth at 300 watts for example? I know when I shift I'll drop power very very quickly so shifting is always smooth, but maybe it's still a nice comparison to find the limits
Good question. I still need to do some proper climbs and sprints with it. Will keep you posted here or make a new video if there is something interesting to report 🤜🤛
nice comparison video.
Thanks a lot 🫶
I wonder if someone will hack it to reintroduce the auto-trim.
Would love that 😂😂
Ask ltwoo for custom
good comparison, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it 🤜🤛
It appears as if L-Twoo have changed their battery holder, battery spring contact was changed to address the issue per GC Performance. Tough to tell really from the video, but do you have 5 to 6 millimeters of clearance between the largest cog teeth and the upper jockey wheel teeth? It looks quite excessive in the video. Was the LT much faster in the hold the button test? Just curious. Thanks.
Yes. My version i think already had the updated design as i had no rattle at all.
@@klein-concept Cool👍 Did you check the B-Limit?
Yeah I saw that also...shorten your chain one link and you should be able to tighten up the rear mech jockey closer to the cogs. That will make the shifting even better.
@@BrianFaure He needs to adjust B-Limit if the distance isn't correct.
Thanks for pointing that out. I already shortened it by two links in comparison to the original build video but sounds like there is still room to get rid of another two. 🤜🤛
To my eye I couldn't see a "game-changing" difference between the 2 groupsets. Obviously, the difference lies in the weight between the two, with Dura Ace being way way lighter and L-Twoo weighing in closer to Shimano's third tier DI2 105 groupset.
Given L-Twoo is relatively the "new kid on the block", I suspect its next iterations will be to develop groupset options coming in at lighter weights. When this happens and if produced at the comparatively low price point then watch out Shimano & Sram
I hope they go down that path 🤜🤛
You do know that with eRx you can change from 10-11-12 speed right? Is that "game-changing" enough for you? Plus you know... The f*king price sure is game changing enough for most people
Agreed. The only situation in some countries is that there are a lot of good 105 Di2 discounts at the moment which lead to the L-Twoo set only being around 200 euros cheaper for a full group.
But i guess the L-Twoo price will go further down once the hype cools down a bit.
Amazing content. Thank you my friend
Thanks a lot. Glad you like it 🫶
I'm curious if one can combine dura-ace calipers with these Ltwoo shifters.I have some dura-ace, last generation calipers... and I'd keep those, of possible.
Yes they should work. L-Twoo confirmed that 105 calipers would work so Dura Ace should work as well. 🤜🤛
I have a problem with my ERX group set I bought from lltwoo on ally express front mec not working and rear doesn't recognise 11 speed to 12 we think it's the software we have changed the battery but lltwoo are not helping is there a way to reset back to factory settings 🤷😕🤪
Sorry to hear that. Did you try to speak with them via the Ali chat? But the unit shows up properly in the app? Are you able to switch gears from the app? Did you try to disconnect if from power for a while?
@@klein-concept yes we have tried everything they said a engineer will get back to us and we are still waiting frustrating because I have races coming up and can't use the bike I thought it came with a two year warranty 😭
@@lawrencehawkins6076sorry to hear that but based on my experience with Ali express, you’re on your own when stuff goes awry. I’m astonished that people just don’t realise that once payments were made on Ali express, it’s gone and if you’re lucky enough to receive your orders, the chance that you got what you paid for is 50/50.
@@lawrencehawkins6076 Maybe, you can try to cancel the option " gear protection" by entering “equipment management ” in your L-Twoo APP
@@quintaia4381 we tried that 😕
Any weight comparisons between the two?
Only added some in comparison to 105 di2 here (th-cam.com/video/dhrUhAeYDc8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=9RZhwbhiQDGzt5Dx) but didnt want to disassemble my Dura Ace setup. It will be quite a bit heavier than DA.
What’s the largest casserole you can fit on the rear? I read somewhere that the maximum size was 11-32 is this true?
I got news from L-twoo that its 11-34.
I have a question. Can eRX RD take 11-36T 105 12s cassette
It will take a 105 12 speed cassette. Officially up to 34 but i think there is enough space to also work with a 36. 🤜🤛
Im curious what the hoods of the LTWOO compared to the shimano system, im currently on a 105 Groupset and considering the LWTOO so intrested if they feel similar ?
Dont know how they compare to the 105 as i dont have them but compared to the Dura Ace they are quite a bit taller which doesnt look as good but gives you a real good grip and gives you a good feeling of security while on the hoods.
What cassette sprocket did you use for the ltwoo?
In both setups i use an ultegra cassette.
Did you had any issues with tahat ltwoo group?
I uploaded a Ltwoo and R12 update yesterday eve including a water test. Have a look there. Hope that will answer your question 🤜🤛
Did you buy your erX groupset with your own money or did you receive one for review?
I bought it with my own 💰 directly on Aliexpress.
@@klein-concept How many km have you done with it? Any issues so far? I’m asking bc I’ve ordered er9 but I’m on the brink of cancelling my order given the experience of other TH-camrs with this groupset.
@@sebastianm2381 not that many to be honest as it is not my primary bike something around 250km i think.
I really wonder if I should even bother trying this at the moment. Seems like it breaks down on most people at some point. And no idea how reliably LTWOO handles warranty. @@klein-concept
@@sebastianm2381 that is the question at the moment. I have seen the issues the other youtubers had. So i think it is really depending which batch you get. It is a great groupset when it works but of course if it stops shifting mid ride that is a no go. Might be worth giving this another 2-3 months until they sort out the issues. As i am certain they are working on improving it.
Yay a new klein video!
🫶
I would start by correctly adjusting Di2 set up, your G-pulley should be closer to the cassette, also front chainring cage gap should be 1-3mm. Shimano ecosystem is far more reliable and performance if far superior. Availability of replacement parts, LBS support, the list goes on. Finally you are comparing an 8 year old technology with the latest (still evolving) L-Twoo. 6 times the price? You can get a 2nd hand Dura-Ace R9170 mini groupset (derailleurs, shifters, callipers) for £800-£900. New 12 speed Dura Ace, is in completely different league, yet the complete groupset cost £2.5k and that's complete with chain, rotors, cassette, chainset, and 3 years warranty. L-Two eRX after shipping and taxes comes close to 1k, you can get Ultegra for that price.
Yes good point in the g pulley adjustment. Still learning lots here so thanks a lot for pointing that out. Been tweaking this on my future builds already.
Regarding the price i was comparing it to a new (but old gen) dura ace. As of course if I would now sell the ltwoo It would also be half the price being second hand.
But you are absolutely right. The benefit of running Shimano is that you have the network of dealers, quick access to parts and easy repairs which you currently don't get with l twoo. Which for a lot of riders might easily be worth the extra cost.
@@klein-concept Agree, although I only use Shimano, My summer dream bike is a direct import from China, SEKA Exceed RDC, I also have Trek and Cube, but just love SEKA. I think with the right western network, and enough users L-Twoo stands a chance
@@Di2_GP oh Seka Exceed. What a dream bike. Looks beautiful and super light as well. So you re getting one this summer? How are you importing it? If i ve seen it correctly you re also based in Poland?
@@klein-concept I have bought one back in October 22, rode it thru '23. SEKA is releasing a new bike this Saturday! Keep your eyes peeled. I'm from Poland, but live and work in the UK.
@@klein-concept You can get one in NL.
I'm not surprised that the L-Twoo shift speed is as fast as Shimano or SRAM's offerings. What concerns me is the quality of their parts. Shimano is practically Toyota: the safest bet in cycling. I'm just sure if I could trust L-Twoo that confidently after hundreds and hundreds of miles without anything breaking.
That is a very good point. You obviously take a bit of a risk being an early adopter with L-Twoo. It might pay out but there is also the chance that you will run into issues and have trouble to get support or replacement parts.
I hope that they will level up their game on the support side as well which will be needed to become a proper contender to Shimano or Sram.
I am rooting for L-Twoo and Sensah, prices have really gone OTT and need to come down. However, the breakthrough will only come if and when consistency, reliability and product support are deemed to be good enough for bike manufacturers to offer factory builds with Chinese groupsets.
Agreed. That would really make the difference. As a start i could imagine established Chinease brands like Winspace or Yeoleo offering full bikes with these at some point.
@@klein-concept Yes. I have actually suggested to Joe of China Cycling and Pandapodium that they should offer full builds. They seem to be considering it as a longer term project only.
Welche Schaltgruppe bevorzugst du vom schalten her??
Ich merke keinen unterschied beim schalten, nur das gewicht ist halt anders. Wenn dir das nicht ultra wichtig ist dann passt did L-Twoo ganz gut.
Hi there I am guessing from the name you are German. How much did you pay for this groupset and get it through customs?
Yes based in Berlin. I paid 609 Euro on Aliexpress and had to pay 25 Euro import tax on top.
@@klein-concept I once bought the sensah empire pro groupset and paid anti dumping tax. Paid nearly double, don't want that to happen can you advise me. I ended up paying almost the same as for shimano ultegra r8000.
Es fallen dabei Drittlandszoll in Höhe von 14%, die Einfuhrumsatzsteuer in Höhe von 19% und Antidumpingzölle in Höhe von 48,5% an.
@@andrewmurgatroyd9214 krass. Das hatte ich bisher noch nie und ich hab schon gruppen, felgen und rahmen aus china bestellt. Da hatte hoffentlich ein zollmitarbeiter nur einen schlechten tag.
Moin, würdest du mal ein Update video machen wie die erx sich bei dir bewährt hat? :-)
Da gibts leider nicht allzuviel zu berichten, denn es läuft bei mir weiterhin sauber. Ich baue aber diese woche ein neues gravel rad und da packe ich noch eine erx gruppe drauf. Da kann ich gerne kurz über meine erfahrungen berichten. 🤜🤛
Cool! Das freut mich und das zieh ich mir gerne rein. Ich bin kurz davor den Button für eine er9 als Weihnachtsgeschenk an mich zu drücken.
Weisst du noch ob du die Gruppe noch versteuern musstest, oder gab es bei LTWOO eine shipping option die das inkludiert? Die antworten mir leider auf nichts und ich kenne niemanden der eine gruppe hat @@klein-concept
@@SaschaRissling ich hab um die 25 euro zoll oder steuern auf die gruppe gezahlt. Manchmal hast du glück und es rutscht durch und manchmal muss man es beim zoll abholen bzw bei lieferung bezahlen.
I am not sold on getting stuff from some website and no easy way of getting parts or service.
I mean it is not just some website. So far Aliexpress was pretty reliable for me but you are very right with the parts. I think they will need to invest into a proper network outside of China to provide proper service.
@@klein-concept I think having L-twoo enter into the market is a good thing. As of now, we pretty much have a duopoly on groupsets. Whereas other components of the bicycle are more open. cheers.
Random question, anyway to setup Ltwoo for a TT bike? If I have Shimano electronic shifters, will these work with Ltwoo? Only ask as nothing exists like this in the market currently
Hm i think this will not work as there is no way to connect the shimano shifters with the system. 🤔
@@klein-concept ah I see, really appreciate the response 🙌👍. Ah back to the drawing board. Not sure the market is big enough for mass production for ltwoo vs regular bike groupsets. You’ve tempted me regardless for the road bike setup, looks awesome. Thanks for making this video
@@mikeakers1327 glad you enjoyed it. I agree that market is maybe a bit small at the moment but once they establish themselves maybe they will also move into this space.
Ltwoo eRX heavily outperforms for me in the sense that I can't afford Di2 Dura Ace.
And it actually performs pretty well. Especially the per sprocket adjustment makes a big difference i think.
Have not had any sleep issues...
Great to hear. Same for my setup 🤜🤛
I think for me to consider spending my money on these groupsets. I'd need a slightly lower price, it's not much of a difference as you can get entry level electronic from shimano or Sram for around £1000. And also have a final release of a product, seems to be different every time I watch a video
Agreed. I hope the prices will go down a bit once the hype calms down.
I own bikes with Ultegra Di2, Sram Rival eTap, and ltwoo's Erx which I've been testing for about 500km now... and weight wise its somewhere between ultegra and DuraAce. Shift peed, far better than Rival and slightly quicker than Ultegra. All in all when you compare value for money, you're getting something that sits between ultegra and dura-ace for less than the price of 105 and rival electronic. I think we have a clear value proposition here. The ONLY thing I think they need to throw into the mix at this point is selling a complete group, as I've yet to find a Chinese branded crankset for my full Chinese build that is robust yet lightweight and can compete with sram and Shimano. They are working on this nonetheless with a partner factory and there's hope they'll bring it to market in the coming months.
@@AbielRuiz very happy to hear your experience and review. Btw there are some good carbon cranksets on Pandapodium which might be interesting for you. 🤜🤛
@@AbielRuiz yeah that's fair, I'm sure it's a fantastic groupset. Until it settles down I'd be concerned with getting replacement parts in the not to distant future. New batteries and so on, warranty is also a concern of mine. As if I spent a little more I'd get the peace of mind of a big established company & longevity.
It's cool that other companies are making waves in a very dominated market though! Hopefully we'll see some price drops from Sram & Shimano to keep competitive. (wishful thinking)
Thank you for your in depth response dude! 🙌
the ltwoo system comes with warranty, and getting replacement parts has been a non-issue for me, as well as some of the other folks that have been testing the system. Their team has been pretty diligent with resolving issues. Also, I don't think the price drops are coming. Unfortunately these BIG companies have to worry about insane overhead and marketing expenses, which they have no choice but to build into the retail price of these products in order to keep their business running. As we know, everything is costing more these days. So I think it's unrealistic for them to drop their prices. What we can see if lower quality products from these big conglomerates to cater to a broader audience. but when comparing to products like the eRx, they won't make sense as far as value is concerned. I think there's a major shift happening and im excited for it.@@jesmondo5785
A wide angle close up of your face is a bit intimidating, B-roll footage of the bikes is usually ideal
Hehe. That is very valid feedback. Guess not everybody needs me so close to their face 😂😂. Will keep that in mind for the next one. Thanks a lot 🤜🤛
@@klein-conceptI feel like I do need your face close to mine 😂.
😂😂🤓
Ltwoo es bueno o no?
It is still very good for me. I am actually building another bike with a eRX. Video should be up this weekend or early next week. 🤜🤛
@@klein-concept Ok gracias ,uso Ltwoo Rx mecanico y voy a cambiarme a eRX .Mis saludos 😊💪
I also have a mechanical RX here but did not use it yet. Do you like it?
@@klein-concept si claro me gusta,funciona bien ,nada que decir.Con respecto a shimano no hay diferencia
Happy to hear that. Happy holidays 🎄
If ltwoo can keep this up shimano and scram might lessen there price because they will have another competetor
Yes thats also why i think. So its a good development for everybody. 🤜🤛
Why could you patent something like Auto Trim? I mean that's just the consequenz of going to a electric 2x Groupset that the shifter decides where to shift to always have the perfect chain line. That's nothing Shimano developed since this is doing every athlete with a mechanical shifting group every time.
I so much agree. This should be open to use for every brand. Actually my Wheeltop eds seems to have it.
no chance to get replacement batteries ??????????????????????????
@@heijoleisten137 of course. They are widely available. 🫶
any input?
@@heijoleisten137 dont know what you mean?
Lets all buy the L Two. Nevermind human rights, fair wages, freedom of speach. As long as it doesn`t afect my life it doesn`t matter where and how this kind of products are made.
Sorry but sounds like you are having way more informations about the L-Twoo production line. Maybe you could share these in here?
Do I need to explane the lack of respect for intelectual property, property rights on patents, fair salaries, human rights, freedom of speech in the country where this product comes from? Do I need to say that by buying their products we are giving a small contribution??? Really??? Do I need to say that we should all buy from countries where that is respected??? Ok, I know, this company is different.
Thank you for your input. I respect your opinion. ❤️
@@ruialexandre4279in of the ltwoo founders was a succesful IP lawyer...they are doing the Math and do Not hurt any IP..
You ARE a professional because we humans are creators.
Practice makes perfect. After a long time of practicing, our work will become natural, skillfull, swift, and steady.
Bruce Lee
Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, add what is uniquely your own.
Bruce Lee
“Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth.”
― Muhammad Ali
💯
:)awesome
Thanks a lot for these 🫶
Taylor Lisa Thomas Angela Martinez James
🤜🤛
wow, that was really close. The Di2 is definitely very refined and super smooth and flawless but the eRX is sooo close. For everyday riding should be fine. As they update it , hopefully through firmware it will get better and better. Too bad to see the auto trim go but I guess if you learned how to ride without it, not a big deal. very tempting to purchase. I'll wait a bit to see if more improvements come in. Let us know in a few months if more firmware updates come in and things are even more smooth.
Hey, will keep you posted here whenever there are interesting updates around this exciting groupset 🤜🤛
Thanks for the reply. That's awesome! Thanks! I just overhauled my bike with sensah 11 spd and juin tech brakes. I'm super excited to try the eRX in the future. Looking for a new frame.@@klein-concept
😂😂😂😂 that ASMR part 😂😂😂😂
Was only 10hours of work. I think might have been worth it 🫣
Tempting to buy me one with an Ultegra crank and cassette. Just under € 1000 total.
Sounds like a pretty good deal 🤌
for pure shifting performance, 105 is just as good. weight differs.
@@EstelonAgarwaen would have liked to put it against the 105 Di2 but didnt have one. But as you say might be very similar performance.
@@klein-concept me and my friends all run r7000 and r8000 groupsets. There is no difference in shifting.
@@EstelonAgarwaen love these. Been riding both of them for a good while as well. Shifting is great and only a difference in weight 🤩
Answer: No.
🫶
I would never buy this stuff.
The company is using customers and customers money to develop the product.
The quality of it is obviously garbage compared to Shimano
Fair if you dont want to experiment with these kind of components. Still good to have them entering the market because it will impact on how Shimano or Sram will act in regards to innovation or pricing.
But where do you see that it is OBVIOUSLY garbage? For me and lots of other viewers this seems to be performing great in this comparison.
@@klein-concept look at the quality of the manufacturing of the components especially the hoods.
They look like they have come out of a play-doh mould.
I would rather buy mechanical Tiagra over L Twoo anything every day
Plot twist: all companies use the customers' money to develop their products. How do you know what the quality is like if you haven't bought it? Low IQ comment is low IQ
@@simonwalker2460 guess its a matter of taste. And thats fine. Nobody is forcing anybody to like anything here. But I m having a dura ace mechanical, a dura ace di2 here and i still really like the touch and feel of the L-Twoo. Even so much that i think i will buy another group for the next bike build.
Mala comparacion, cuando muestras los dos cambios juntos, el dura ace esta a mas cadencia que el l-twoo, por eso es un poco mas lento, tiene que ser a la misma cadencia . Hay un salto el el video en el minuto 7.01, es como para hacer parecer el el dura ace va a la misma cadencia , lo cual no es asi, la prueba con el l-twoo lo hicistes con menos cadencia y con el dura ace con mas cadencia. Logico que con mas cadencia el cambio es mas rapido. Mal tu video
Its as good as i was able to do it at that time 🫶 not easy having the exact cadence without a machine and switching bikes in between.
take the china-er out in the rain and see how it tests...spoiler: fail
@@ugghhhyoutubeisawful646 i have only ridden it through light rain once so far without any issues. Wasnt a proper rainstorm tho. Lets see once autumn comes.
oh wow, thanks for responding. i just found your channel. the second vid i watched was really great like i said/commented on it. ill tune it to see any updates!
anyway, i think it was the third time in the rain (not a storm but pretty wet for about 2 hrs on that ride) and the whole thing just stopped working. we (myself and a pretty reputable mech) never got it to work again (responded with a few sounds and squeaks but no shifting) and sent it back,@@klein-concept
@@ugghhhyoutubeisawful646 🤜🤛
Don’t buy Chinese.
Thats not going to be so easy if you are interested in bike components, modern frames or any consumer tech. 🫣
@@klein-concept Shimano Japan, Campy Europe, Frames Taiwan (or hand made locally) tech Taiwan too
@@thedownunderverse i see the China label on a couple of Shimano parts these days as well but aside of that when i look at more complex products like my phone, my laptop, my headphones, my harddrive i see made in China.
Of course there are exceptions and wide ranges of quality but I dont think you should exclude products only because they are manufactured in China.
@@klein-concept oh, you don’t think so, do you? Oh well that changes everything. I’ll just forget about the Chinese exploiting my country, threatening my country, and making more and more locals homeless, and looking down on us as though we deserve that. 🙄 Jog on please.
Do you think 1200 million Chinese People are wrong? You might wanna rethink that.
this whole comparison video is just a joke . only a joke. an urgent improvement regarding the l-twoo groupset is the replacement of the shit batteries included with batteries from a respected maker, like varta or panasonic .lithium type and more mA
Everybody can have an opinion. So fair that you didnt like it, but if you dont enjoy some content in the future, it always helps the creator to add a little bit of background on what didnt work for you on this one so that the creator can learn from it and make it a better channel in the future.
Hugs from Berlin
@@klein-concept many people have tested these and the performed poorly. but read my first comment again , it will help ypu with the l-twoo groupset
@@9118693223 seen the first comment. Appreciate the edit. I actually ordered it without batteries and put some panasonic into the shifters and the best i could find for the derailleurs. If it doesnt shift well for others that is nothing i can really cover but only show how my setup performs, which i think it does quite well.
At the same time i have seen the front derailleur failing on some others which speaks for poor quality assurance but i think this is something they can get under control with some extra effort.
@@klein-concept wise decision