I'm really glad you pointed out that Bach and Mozart wrote their keyboard music for different instruments. I'm so tired of hearing how Chopin's piano music was so much "better" than Mozart's; or that late Beethoven piano music was so much "better" than Haydn's. If Mozart had lived to old age, we could compare his never composed late period music of his old age with that of Beethoven, but history leaves that to the imagination. Haydn inserted an atonal transitional intetlude into one of his late quartets that anticipates the atonality of Ravel, and he also used ninth chords a century before Wagner. Haydn said when he was past 70 that he had musical ideas that could revolutionize music, but he didn't have the energy to compose such music at his advanced age. He only provided us with some tantalizing little clues of the kind of music he was hinting at with that statement. It's hard to imagine what music Bach would have written if he had a piano like Brahms used!
Haydn’s magnificent work, The Creation, shows the innovative genius in his writing. Please let us know the string quartet you make reference to of Haydn.
@LivingPianosVideos both are great instrumentalists bach with clavichord and harpsichord, and Mozart with fortepianos and harpsichords of the day, tbh I feel Mozart with his style of music is ahead of his time, as a humbly speaking self taught pianist myself from the age of 15yrs old iam 53yrs old now, I recently taught myself to play the Sonata k332 f major 3 movements, along with the k331 A major theme and 6 variations and rondo alla turca, ( learning menuetto and trio making good progress) and the famous sonata C major k545, I managed to teach myself before this sonata, in the first movement of the f major Mozart incorporates into the piece the circle of fifths along with the chords, and it is in my humble opinion like he is experimenting with Jazz over hundred years before it was even invented, incredible how these musicians like Mozart, Beethoven and Bach etc influenced the music that we have today, Music and being able to play the piano and other instruments is a wonderfull God given gift to have, greetings from wales uk 😀
The most stupid thing to say is : this composer is better then the other, his music is better than... Art is a PERSONAL matter ! I like blue my wife green, I like Beethoven he likes Bach, he likes Picasso, an other prefers Rembrandt. All of those creators are EQUALLY sublime.
I'm a pianist and a piano tuner. I've played on some historical pianos, and they are SO inferior to the modern piano. The most important innovation was the metal plate, which came in around 1850, developed chiefly by Steinway. With the metal plate, strings could be put under much greater tension which increased the sustaining power of the notes dramatically. With the pianos that Chopin composed on, the long melody lines were heard chiefly in the imagination, because the actual sound died away very quickly.
So were the first bicycles, the first cars, the first planes....there is always a beginninge somewhere up to a maximum point. Electronics? Synthezisers? Hammond organ?
In many ways early pianos were a different instrument, hence often specifically called pianoforte or fortepiano. I believe JS Bach did mention the technical issues of the pianofortes he came across late in his life while the harpsichord was already very much a fully developed and more reliable instrument in the 1740s
I disagree that they're inferior. Yes, very different but I've played on historical pianos as well and it was really a revelation to play Mozart on a piano from his day. The keyboard was much more reactive which was wonderful for his running passages. Yes modern pianos have a bigger sound but I really love historical pianos and hearing/playing music of their time on them
All these masters are much more musical than I ever could hope to be, but the repretoire that speaks to me the most is that of Bach. His music strikes me as being the biggest of them all, not in terms of volume or tone colour but how it stimulates my mind. Whichever line of the music you listen to there's always something else interesting going on, and you could even listen to two lines together and hear this in the foreground and leave the rest in the background. It's because of this melodic complexity that I don't feel I've got every note down on the first listen. Every time you listen to Bach you get a new sound from his music.
Mozart and and Beethoven would agree with you! They owe literally everything they achieved to old Bach. We know by now that Beethoven studied Bach's fugues all his life and still took Bach lessons under Albrechtsberger two years before his death. Mozart even worshipped Bach's sons CPE (Mozart's teacher) and JC (aka the London Bach), so without the Bach family there would be no Mozart or Beethoven as we know them today. JS Bach sits right at the top of the food chain.
I can't thank you enough for the expression (how it stimulates my mind), I became in love with Bach since I first listened to his music as well as many other great composers such as Mozart, but there was something unique about Bach music and you gave it to me today after so many years looking for this perfect expression which very few composers could give. Thank you forever....
Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
Bach is the most boring predictable and overrated composer of all time. So what speaks to u is repetitive music. And of course a small chamber orchestra.
Very informative, thank you for sharing. As someone who uses harpsichord, organ, clavichord and piano, I find the differing techniques appropriate to each instrument so useful for composition - it also encourages thinking with an historical mindset, which helps interpreting the music 😊
G'day, Mr. Estrin! Thank you for a very informative, interesting, and simply-explained video. Bach and Mozart are my 2 favourite composers (in that order).
What an amazing lesson! I had never thought about how Bach's music, versus Mozart, et al, were so heavily influenced by the keyboard instruments they had at their disposal! This is so enlightening!
Remember, Bach always composed with chorale voices in mind- not harpsichord. Much of his music was played by instruments which, like the human voice had very significant dynamics. Bach could compose fugues and other complex works completely away from the instrument, hearing it all in his head. There is valuable information in the video, but once again, just because someone spends their life in the world of classical music, doesn’t mean they are equipped with the tools to time travel in history, or even have the anthropological intelligence to make a sound prediction about the past, even though they are lifelong academics.
@@HelloSpyMyLie, well, Bach definitely composed with keyboard in mind which is why he titled it so. One thing to note is that chorale writing was different from keyboard thorough-bass style writing. And Bach knew both of them expertly well. And we know this because his son wrote one of the best treatises on keyboard thorough-bass. It was not always chorale style.
@@pjbpiano oh so you know why he titled it so then? It’s not like, just because that was the name of the instrument? But surely you know, yes, im sure. Is that why his keyboard works have bass, tenor, alto and soprano voices with sometimes additional lines? Or no, no. Of course not. You know that the generic titling of the pieces means he composed with only keyboard in mind, but when it comes to multiple voices, no. That’s not referring to human voices. Got it. Thank you for proving my point that we don’t have time machines but the academics will claim to be authorities on the matter. The harpsichord is essentially a shit instrument and Bach loved it because he could emulate the organ/it’s an instrument that allowed him to “lay everything out” compositionally. As a human, he only had one voice to produce sound, so at the time the harpsichord and similar alternatives were the only convenient instruments for doing this. Bach was an aware of the instruments limitations. Dont project. Your description of thorough bass is that of a theory 1 student. “Expertly well” is not anywhere near an adequate superlative of Bach’s gifts. Modern “vertical” harmonic analysis does not even begin to scratch the surface of how baroque composers worked. It is assinine to think that Bach could hear an organ, bowed instrument or human voice with extremely better dynamic capabilities than a harpsichord, and yet is totally unaware of the limitations of said harpsichord. It’s a well known fact that Bach always composed with choral voices in mind and it’s a main reason his music translates to any other instrument so fantastically
@@pjbpiano he would sing and “audiate” (hear EVERYTHING in his head) to compose his works. You would think someone who is trying to speak with authority on Bach, would have practiced enough Bach to know that to perform this music on any instrument, the musician must sing all of the lines to the best of their ability
One of your best presentations. I suggest in the Mozart you might solidify the l h into repeated chords to show just how the Alberti bass imparts movement.
Remember Bach's influence on Mozart, also Bach's son in London. When Mozart was in Leipzig, he was for many hours in Thomas church to study/read Bach's compositions in the archive. Mozart for sure was overwhelmed and for sure had a photographic memory.
And bach owes everything to Palestrina. Whats your point? @jaikee9477 Mozart was influenced by JC and CPE Bach's style, but far surpassed and advanced on both of them. JS Bach's influence on him was minimal. Handel was more seminal.
@@adig2414 Mozart was dreaming of Bach every night. Every! In every single note of Mozart there is Bach! It's the same with Chopin, it's the same with... snd do on and on... even Ritchie Blackmore!
@@jeromejamies3641nah mozart music pretty boring, hes like a Liszt type-super prodigy player composing music that makes you yawn-except liszt actually also had some spectacular gems like consolation 6 Chopin mogs Mozart
The harpsichord is a beautiful instrument with its own personality, if we could call it that, it has specific characteristics that define it among all instruments, maintaining a unique and special style and sound; It should be said that the harpsichord was before the piano, this fact in itself places it before its successor the piano in the line of time, which is why it deserves its own merit in the history of music and also as an instrument, with which it was composed. great masterpieces, like this beautiful piece that we can hear in this video, let us not underestimate either its importance in music, nor its sound qualities that make this instrument so special. Bach composed sublime pieces of art for God with this instrument and they are truly authentic masterpieces.
Excellent video. I can sit and listen to Bach (or Beethoven or Mozart) for hours and hours and never grow bored. I also appreciate that you're not breaking the information down to a 3rd grade level. I know that there is a profound need for music instruction at an elementary level, but it's nice to hear explanations geared toward a more educated audience. Thanks so much!
I listened to this video as I was doing sonething else, and realized that I had to listen to this masterclass again. One of your best videos. This is on a level with your five videos on Burgmüller pieces. It would be nice if you could continue those. I discussed them with my piano teacher, as I am playing and transposing each piece into other keys.
Even after your explanation, I still think Bach's music sounds weird on piano. Thank you for your presentation, it really was enlightening as I have never even seen a harpsichord in person.
As far as is known, Bach probably didn’t write for the piano at all. WTC Book 2 was written from the late 1730s to the early 1740s. At that point, Bach’s only known encounter with the fortepiano was in 1735 when Silbermann, a famous early fortepiano builder, invited Bach to play and critique some of his creations. Bach did so and found that the fortepiano was far from a complete instrument, in general he was extremely critical, and there’s no evidence he took any instruments home with him, nor did he seem to want to. Bach did famously encounter Silbermann’s fortepianos again in Frederick the Great’s court in 1747, but while he seemed to be much more appreciative of them this time around (they had improved a great deal over the last decade or so), this occurred long after the completion of the Well Tempered Clavier. In any case, upon a brief skim of an Urtext of the book, I was unable to find a single instance of indicated dynamics. I certainly may have missed something, but even so, I suspect it would be just a couple of instances of piano or forte, which would be quite obviously intended for a harpsichord with 2 manuals, such as in the Italian Concerto. Nowhere would you find a case of crescendo or diminuendo which would indicate an instrument with more than 2 dynamic possibilities.
With earlier music by composers such as Bach, one must be careful of possible editorial additions provided in editions published in later times. Even the title of 'Moonlight' was joined to Beethoven's famous sonata by the publisher, not Beethoven himself.
If you want to hear Bach played on the clavichord, I can recommend The Well-Tempered Clavichord - Preludes And Fugues By J. S. Bach by Johann Sebastian Bach; Ralph Kirkpatrick, Deutsche Grammophon (413 419-1) You can hear some of them for free at the following link, although it takes a while for them to load. archive.org/details/lp_the-well-tempered-clavichord-preludes-an_johann-sebastian-bach-ralph-kirkpatrick/disc1/01.01.+No.+1+In+C+Major%2C+BWV+846.mp3
The harpsichord excerpt is part of Bach's Italian Concerto. The fortepiano music is part of Mozart Sonata in C major k545 , the first movement. Then there is Bach's 5th French Suite in G major, the beginning of the 1st movement. Then there is part of the 2nd movement of Bach's E minor Toccata. Then the beginning of the Mozart Sonata in C major K545 on the piano. Then the beginning of the 2nd movement of Mozart's Sonata K545.
In July of 1781 Mozart began attending Sunday 10am musical soirées of Baron van Swieten in Vienna where ‘nothing but the fugues of Sebastian & Emmanuel Bach & Handel were performed’ which by the time of his marriage in August of 1782 had left an indelible mark on his compositional stile - we see a number of preludes & fugues newly composed for string quartet for performances at these soirées - even Mozart’s forte-piano sonatas (and concerti) were heavily infused with every nuance of contrapuntal ingenuity including krebs, stretto, thematic inversion, canonic imitation at the unison, octave, fifth, fourth, sixth etc -see for example the opening movement of the Klavier sonata in D-major K. 576 which makes use of complex fugal techniques rarely equaled even to-day-to say nothing of his great Mass in c-minor and his magnificent Requiem in d-minor fragments which shew Mozart’s exploration of fugal technique was still very much on his mind (we recall his studying under the famed contrapuntal teacher Padre Martini of Bologna as a 14-year old child-prodigy where he was awarded a graduate certificate from the Academia Filharmonica di Bologna having had to pass a difficult contrapuntal 4-part vocal exercise in the ‘stilo anticco’ which he managed to polish-off ‘in less than an hour when many maestri had to sweat for up to four hours to compleat’… Also you should have mentioned the tuning of J.S. Bach’s keyboard instruments were ‘well-tempered’ (not using to-day’s ‘equal temperament’ wherein every single note on the keyboard is now tuned evenly into a semitone of ‘exactly 100 Pythagorean cents’) and also the fact that (at least to judge from the Leipzig & Weimar tuning forks from c. 1730) Bach’s A was tuned to 420Hz in winter and c. 425Hz in summer (Leopold Mozart’s Italian 1770 tuning forks had an A tuned to A=430Hz) which is nearly a semitone LOWER than to-day’s modern ‘standard’ of A= 440Hz which would have sounded very sharp to both composers… According to Thomas Attwood’s recollections some decades after being one of Mozart’s composition pupils in Vienna (1 August 1785 to 4 March 1787) M. had a Walter Klavier ‘equipt with a 4-octave pedal board attachment at the base of the instrument ranging from c to c’’-which strengthened the sound of the bassline for his own Walter forte piano which a visiting Leopold Mozart wrote (‘your brother’s large Klavier has been carried out of his flat by piano movers at least a dozen times since I arrived to perform at his concerts in the Mehlgrub or at the Theatre or in some nobleman’s house…’ so he used this pedalboard during public performances of his Klavier concerti ‘which serv’d the Function of a 2nd piano’ (alas now lost, but other contemporary 1780-1800 examples of these ‘organ-pedal-like attachments’ exist in museums in Central Europe) … Mozart’s contrapuntal exercises set for the 21-year old Attwood have been mainly preserved in a bound notebook of some 270 pages representing about 1/2 of the lessons he took from M. during his study years - and shew that M. followed the precepts of Johann Joseph Fux in his Gradvs ad Parnassvm (1725) which he used as his main textbook along with Martini’s contrapuntal Esemplare of 1770 - and shews Mozart’s thorough understanding of all aspects of 18th century contrapuntal technique (cf Adagio and Fugue for organ in a clock in f-minir K. 608 (Feb 1791) which displays the deepest understanding of contrapuntal theory
Mozart knew how to follow all of the rules. Bach likewise knew how to follow all of the rules ... but more importantly, Bach knew how to follow rules, and then break them most effectively. Mozart was the good little perfect-pitch boy of music, while Bach was the merely GOD of music.
@@scotthullinger4684 - presumably if Sebastian Bach had died in 1721 -two full years before being appointed at Leipzig at the age of just shy of 36 years-which was Mozart’s age at his own death, we might not to-day be singing Sebastian Bach’s praises as much - as he was able to live a fairly long & full life (at least by standards of the middle classes in thr early 18th century German states - dying blind at 65 years old… Examining the evidence M. composed more than 940 musical compositions in his 30-year compositional career as a musician (despite the outdated Koechel numbering system !) and M. upon closer inspection of ‘influence’ to contemporaries actually achieved more in terms of ‘moving Western Art music forward by pushing the stylistic envelope to the very edge’ (cf. D: Giovanni (1787) and his final 7 sinfonias (from say, 1780 onward…) or his final 15 Klavier concerti which re-invented the medium for Beethoven to run with (see the d-minor masterpiece K. 466, Jan-Feb 1785;) and the great c-minor concerto K. 491, March 1786) or his ‘Great Mass in c-minor’ K. 427 (1782/1783) which is comparable in contrapuntal skill to Sebastian’s Mass in b-minor which was ‘pasticcio’d’ at the end of his life from over a dozen previously written Cantatas since his appointment at Leipzig in 1723 at age 38 years old - two years older than M. was when he died of renal failure following a streptococcal infection in December 1791- One might list 150 more great masterpieces of the composer’s art-whereas old Sebastian was toiling away at his cantatas drastically confining his musical output types (genres) to sacred Protestant music in comparative seclusion in Leipzig where his fame as composer-organist-theorist was mainly localis’d to the northern German states…more’s’ the pity…but Sebastian wrote no operas in his whole life-unlike his youngest son Christian who became a leading opera & sinfonia composer in London whose works were performed all over Europe during his own lifetime and beyond … There’s just no telling what other great Mozartean musical masterpieces inclufinf German & Italian opera & sacred music (including Grand Missae & oratorios), concerti for solo string & wind instruments or what chamber music would have been produced had M. been allowed to live for 65 full years as old Sebastian was ?
@@theophilos0910 - Mozart was constantly coddled during his entire life, beginning virtually at birth. Bach, on the other hand, possessed NO personal advantages, and he lived the most ordinary of lives while exposing himself to music education at every possible opportunity, and accepting whichever employment to be able to provide for his huge family. But for the most part, Bach was self taught. It was the NON-child prodigy Bach who achieved what he achieved pretty much on his own, even writing countless compositions for himself with NO nearby patron constantly pushing him to complete whichever compositional work. At the end ... Mozart only accepted jobs so he could pay off his tremendous debts, but never entirely managed it. His wife arranged for the sale of his works after his death just to survive because dear Wolfy was always such an irresponsible turd. Mozart was a narcissistic superstar, which is exactly what he wanted to be. Bach, on the other hand, was a humble COMPOSER. He generally disregarded any personal attention. If Mozart had lived as long as Bach lived, we would have had only many multiple more of the same - a repeat of a repeat of a repeat - piano concerto, operas, string quartets, whatver - but nothing supremely more inventive as he aged. Little Wolfgang reached his tippy-top intellectual and talent peak in his mid 20's - or therabouts.
@@theophilos0910 - Good old Bach was hired help, just like many other composers both before and since Bach existed. Mozart was just a pet of the royal courts, etc. But Bach composed many works which were never heard during his lifetime. He was extremely self motivated just to be a creator. Mozart often took jobs, towards the end of his life, merely to keep up with his contractual obligations. He was a "push my buttons, and pull my strings, and then watch me compose" sort of a guy. J. S. Bach wrote NO operas because operas were not part of the Baroque canon, and his job was writing church music. He also wrote plenty of personal compositions which were not paid jobs, the sort of music which got discovered only LONG after he died.
Re Bach, harpsichord is specified or assumed in Goldbergs, Italian cto., French overture, the 5th Brandi, sonatas for flute, violin, gamba, and the harpsichord concerti (did I forget any?). Please refrain from making incorrect sweeping generalizations... One might also claim that the Musical Offering is piano music :-)
P.s., One of my fave recordings is of the gamba sonatas using a Silbermann-style piano instead of a harpsichord. The results are amazing, and evidence is presented that Bach himself may have publicly played exactly this program! (@Zimmermann's IIRC :-)
Well the fact that Bach preferred a piano like instrument and that he was such a great composer that he felt the Dynamics in his music I'm sure Bach would have loved to have had a Steinway I play Bach and Mozart pretty much the same although with Mozart you can pull more dynamics that means loud and soft but really the difference when I play Bach I play Bach with a little less Dynamics loud and soft but I still put a little bit of dynamics in Bachs keyboard music you can add dynamics of course as long as you don't over do it so to make the music a little less mechanical sounding one thing that's similar in my playing with Bach and Mozart I play both with a very smooth legato is one note slide smoothly into the next so there are some differences between playing Mozart I'm Bach but I think this was a really great video that explains about the development of the keyboard instruments and the composer's relationship with them but I feel in my heart I would never want to play Bachs original instruments I strongly feel that if the piano have been invented during his life he would have used it
I always loved to hear the Goldberg Variations on both the harpsichord, AND the piano. But I think I actually prefer the harpsichord, only because then we hear more of Bach, and we tend to hear a bit less of the keyboard player, meaning how his interpretation could possibly somehow interfere with Bach's musical vision. It's a bit difficult to insert your own personality into a harpsichord. But on the other hand ... Glenn Gould's second recording of the Goldbergs is positively illuminating and revelatory. Bach's music is SO great that it takes a real mental retard to royally f*** it all up - And yes, I've also listened to a few of THOSE recordings as well.
If there were no Bach, the musical world would be different. Bach is the founder of everything “If all musical literature - Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann - disappeared, it would be extremely sad, but if we lost Bach, I would be inconsolable,” said his colleague, the German composer Johannes Brahms, about Bach’s genius. Greetings from Russia.
@@LivingPianosVideos Danke für den Link :) Leider spreche ich kein Englisch. Ich schreibe über einen Übersetzer und entschuldige mich für etwaige Ungenauigkeiten im Text. Ich bin aus Russland. Dennoch habe ich den Kern dessen verstanden, worüber der Autor sprach, und die Kommentare gelesen. Ich habe nie Musik studiert. Ziemlich spät, mit über 50 Jahren, habe ich mich der klassischen Musik zugewandt. Und mir gefielen besonders die Werke von Bach. Und es kam zu dem Punkt, an dem mir der Gedanke kam, dass es gut sei, Bach nicht nur zuzuhören, sondern auch zu versuchen, ihn zu spielen. Und dann habe ich mich endlich zusammengefunden, vor zwei Jahren habe ich mir ein Klavier gekauft und angefangen, Unterricht an einer Musikschule zu nehmen. Und jetzt spiele ich schon Bach :)). Jedes Mal, wenn ich anfange, ein Werk von Bach zu analysieren, frage ich mich, wie es möglich war, auf so etwas zu kommen. Auf so etwas kann man nicht kommen.
If Bach's music had died, I'm sure Brahms would've been very sad. But he was nowhere close to being the inventor of everything. He wasn't the inventor or anything. He was a retrograde figure. You could delete him from music history, classicism, romanticism, post wagnerianism, serialism and the darmstadt schools would remain basically the exact same. He didn't even gain true notoriety until the early 20th century, and by then, those tonal rules people wrongly think he invented were being thrown out the window. And Brahms declared Mozart the greatest composer that ever lived in his final years.
0:58 Who else did a double take when he said "Did Bach play the piano? Well yes, there are records of him." I was wondering, was that under the HMV label?
@@LivingPianosVideos I agree, and I bought the complete set of 48 preludes and fugues on clavichord by Kirkpatrick back in the day soon after the record was was released. I still have them in the original box.
I often wonder how it must have been for a musical genius like Bach to be introduced to the well tempered tuning. Bach wrote 2 complete books, just because of his enthusiasm about the well tempered tuning system, of which the first (The Well Tempered Clavier Book 1) is the most famous. I cannot grasp how that would be... What if we would be introduced to a new tuning system in these days, our current time. It would be very strange indeed, but it would take a genius like Bach to embrace it in such a way that he wrote 24 Preludes and 24 Fugues in this new tuning system. Thank you for this video. I really liked it a lot. But... I must admit... even though the greatness of Bach and Mozart cannot be underestimated... the biggest of them all is and will always be Van Beethoven. Greetings from a fellow-piano teacher 🙂
There’s no doubt that Beethoven was a phenomenal, musical genius. You might appreciate this perspective as well: livingpianos.com/who-is-the-greatest-composer-of-all-time/
Beethoven and Mozart said that Handel was the greatest of all time and Bach said that if there was one person he wanted to meet more than any other it was Handel.
A very, very interesting tutorial, thank you. So much better that talk on some “old” piano. 99.9% of the world pianist will never see or hear some obsolete piano.
Okay, I stipulate at the outset that I haven't watched this video yet. But going in, I'd expect to hear at least a little bit about Glenn Gould's differing views on the two composers.
I actually don't agree with having to play Bach's music in a more homogeneous way, dynamically speaking. In fact, something that was lacking in this short video was the generally greater degree of freedom baroque music gives to the player compared to other styles, for ornaments, especially. Bach's music has so much potential when you escalate the dynamics in important sections, or highlight different voices.
You’re right! In fact, a lot of Baroque music was written with figured bass rather than having all the notes written out. The music was actually improvised by the keyboardist and continuo player (bass line).
There are some keyboard pieces of Bach which do have dynamics, but not many. His Italian Concerto is a good example of one that has dynamics throughout for each hand!
The harpsichord still sounds like a banjo to me albeit one w even less dynamical possibilities. Listening to the 5th Brandenburg concerto i always wish it was played on an early hammerklavier..Anyway, Bach played on piano, despite the usual limited dynamics used still sound absolutely awesome. Can music be that great that you dont actually miss dynamics? Clearly it can..
I would postulate that despite the differences in musical style, Bach & Mozart probably had very similar playing techniques (articulated, independent hands...).
This is a short documentary about Living Piano: Journey Through Time: Historic Concert Experience th-cam.com/video/6dfsxcd3cA0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=LivingPianosVideos
It should be noted that Mozart's keyboard music became more contrapuntal later in his life after playing through Bach's keyboard pieces. So the differences between Bach and Mozart aren't as cut and dried as one might think.
While both suites and partitas are generally a collection of dance movements, partitas are usually for solo instruments whereas suites can be for solo instruments or ensembles.
Two minor points of order. First, a good harpsichordist can actually get quite a bit of dynamic range. Not a lot, but some. By sustaining the notes longer. It works surprisingly well. Second, (which you mentioned!) the Mozart era piano was a disaster. At least for owning one in the modern era. Why? The hammers are fragile, so a pianist used to a modern piano will overplay and break the hammers. Like I said, a disaster. We started with a modern repro of a Mozart period piano (father was a crazed Mozart fan), but got fed up with the broken hammers bit and replaced it with a harpsichord. So growing up (Boston, 1960s), the Mozart that got played in our house was the string quartets and the big jam sessions were Vivaldi and the like. (Harpsichords require tuning every time they are played, so a half hour of complete silence was required on jam session nights while father tuned the harpsichord. I play jazz nowadays, and the clubs here never tune the pianos, and it's always a disaster, but that's another rant.) But, yes. Exactly. The instruments were developing over that period and the composers were writing to the instruments of their day, so an awareness of that history is important.
a. I have been playing a Stein fortepiano, model 1784, for forty years and have never broken a hammer. Not even a string by the way. b. A historically built harpsichord keeps its tuning for at least a week. Music from the eighteenth century also deserves an eighteenth century sound, Bach on a modern piano lacks the eighteenth century atmosphere. I think. But who am I?
Great synthesis. You know what would be cool? Folks play Bach all the time on pianos. What does Mozart sound like on a harpsichord? That might really show what the difference is like ...
@@LivingPianosVideos I'll look for the video. I got rid of my harpsichord cause it was such a huge pain to keep it in tune. Basically had to be adjusted at least once a week! But I'd love to hear your demo!
Mozart also played the harpsichords until his death! He even played his piano concertos on the harpsichord, with an orchestra. His youth concerts were even written for the harpsichord and even KV 271 was written for the harpsichord, read Siegbert Rampe's book about Mozart's keyboard music.
Nice video, although I must admit I have reservations about the frequent "deer in the headlights" moments. I guess the trick is not to watch him! Thanks for posting anyway!
They all used the available instruments. As did Chopin, Grainger etc. If Bach & Mozart had a Bösendorfer - or a Wurlitzer Pipe Organ available, they'd have written for them.
On second thought, this raises an interesting question. In Mozart's time, no electricity. Present times, too much electricity. Would Mozart have composed the same way in this environment? I think people slept better back then.
Love your videos Robert. One correction: Bach did write two pieces specifically for an instrument: the double keyboard clavecimbel. Andras Schiff explains here: th-cam.com/video/BmtbRF-_z98/w-d-xo.html
This is true! However, there are some overall subjective differences between these two composers that are influenced by the period styles and the technologies of the instruments that can be perceived in their music.
For years I was under the mistaken belief that, since Bach's clavier didn't have a sustain pedal that I shouldn't use it when playing his music. I now understand that, if Bach had had it, he would have used it. (I noticed, Maestro, that you did sustain your Bach....) Imagine what B and M would have done with today's technology!
Mozart = 99% of his music is for entertainment, for impressing the common crowd, for money. Bach = True spiritual music, written for praising God or refreshment of the soul.
@flexusmaximus4701 : Only Mozart's Requiem and a few minority of his works. Most of Mozart is written to impress the crowd, he even admitted so himself in a letter to his father.
comparing J S Bach with anyone (even Mozart) is what we Greeks call (and I hope you understand) hubris. It is the worst a human can do against gods. Bach is not "a composer". If you want to talk about homophony and polyphony ok be my guest.Unless you don't understand Bach. In this case I forgive you
Don't even need to watch the video to reply - Mozart's music is so simple that I find it very boring, and it's so easy to play. Bach is a master of of musical structure and his music is very difficult to play because it is far superior !!!!!
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@@adig2414 - Nothing you can prove, of course. Mozart is to Bach what checkers is to chess. Seize reality - Bach is the God of Music. Don't believe me. Believe the cellist Pablo Casals. Crocodile tears. I weep for your lack of insight. Ah, who am I kidding? No, I don't. You're incapable of grasping it. Bach was both a keyboard master, and choral master. Organ, harpsichord - any keyboard instrument. Mass, oratorio, cantata - Moreover, a master of contrapuntal technique. TOTAL GENIUS TO THE CORE. Mozart was merely a child prodigy who remained a child his whole life.
@@scotthullinger4684 I can prove it very easily, but I wouldn't dream of proving it to someone who typed out a reply as cringey, vacuous, and grammatically incoherent as that. When I discuss music with people, I like to ascertain that they're operating on an intellectual plane that can at least parse what I'm saying. With you, I suspect it'd be like trying to prove string theory to an ape. If I thought more highly of your capacity for learning, I'd implore you to look at the statements of Brahms, Liszt, Chopin, Wagner, Debussy, Ravel, R. Strauss, Mahler, Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Furtwangler, Szell, and many more. All these stone cold musical geniuses were perfectly cognizant of your beloved Bach, yet clearly held Mozart as the greater, and in most cases, the single greatest. You're suggesting that you have some magical enlightenment that they lacked? Lmao. Google 'top of the bell curve', and you'll see your selfies as results. And a word of advice, if you are going to spout nonsense, be a little less cringy about it. 'gOD oF MuSIc', 'GenIUs tO tHe CoRe' - you sound like a fucking Taylor Swift fan. Bach would sneer at your sycophantism.
@@adig2414 - As I already stated, which you childishly deleted, Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
@adig2414 - As I already stated, which you childishly deleted, Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
@adig2414 - As I already stated, which you childishly deleted, Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
@jeromejamies3641 - Nope, not true in the least. Bach had a huge impact on ALL subsequent composers, including Mozart, who expressed fascination at Bach's music. As a musician or composer ... you make one eternal round with Bach: You begin with Bach ... and then you end again with Bach after first exploring all of the other GREATS here, there, and in between.
Mozart was absolutely NO slouch of a composer! But on the other hand ... Mozart was light years behind Bach with regard to creativity, inventiveness, contrapuntal technique, keyboard and choral prowess ... and all the rest. To top it off, a colossal body of works. Comparing Bach to Mozart is like comparing the Sun to the Moon. Mozart was paraded around Europe as child by his parents as if he were a circus performer. Bach had a huge family to feed, all of them very supportive, and he still managed to meet the demands of those who employed him.
Let's just EXCLUDE all of the things which don't matter - their life details - and examine only their music. Mozart was great ... and Bach was SUPREMELY masterful, prolific, and GREAT - Bach was the Cream of the Crop, the Best of the Bunch, the Pick of the Pack ... Mozart was merely the cream of the crop. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
@adig2414 - As I already stated ... which you childishly deleted OVER AND OVER AGAIN, many multiple times ... Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
@adig2414 - As I already stated ... which you childishly deleted OVER AND OVER AGAIN, many multiple times ... Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player"
@adig2414 - As I already stated ... which you childishly deleted OVER AND OVER AGAIN, many multiple times ... Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player"
- NOBODY is saying that Mozart was NOT great. It's just that good old Bach was infinitely more prolific and superior to Mozart, the child prodigy who had every available advantage extended to him from the outside - quite unlike Bach. Towards the end ... you had to pull all of Mozart's strings, and push all of his buttons, to get anything out of him. Bach in fact died while in the act of composing - he possessed very little if any fame during his lifetime. Let's just EXCLUDE all of the things which don't matter - their life details - and examine only their music. Mozart was great ... and Bach was SUPREMELY masterful, prolific, and GREAT - Bach was the Cream of the Crop, the Best of the Bunch, the Pick of the Pack ... Mozart was merely the cream of the crop.
I'm really glad you pointed out that Bach and Mozart wrote their keyboard music for different instruments. I'm so tired of hearing how Chopin's piano music was so much "better" than Mozart's; or that late Beethoven piano music was so much "better" than Haydn's. If Mozart had lived to old age, we could compare his never composed late period music of his old age with that of Beethoven, but history leaves that to the imagination. Haydn inserted an atonal transitional intetlude into one of his late quartets that anticipates the atonality of Ravel, and he also used ninth chords a century before Wagner. Haydn said when he was past 70 that he had musical ideas that could revolutionize music, but he didn't have the energy to compose such music at his advanced age. He only provided us with some tantalizing little clues of the kind of music he was hinting at with that statement. It's hard to imagine what music Bach would have written if he had a piano like Brahms used!
Haydn’s magnificent work, The Creation, shows the innovative genius in his writing. Please let us know the string quartet you make reference to of Haydn.
@@LivingPianosVideos I'll try to find it. I heard it more than 20 years ago when (I think) Peter Schickele did a program on Haydn.
@LivingPianosVideos both are great instrumentalists bach with clavichord and harpsichord, and Mozart with fortepianos and harpsichords of the day, tbh I feel Mozart with his style of music is ahead of his time, as a humbly speaking self taught pianist myself from the age of 15yrs old iam 53yrs old now, I recently taught myself to play the Sonata k332 f major 3 movements, along with the k331 A major theme and 6 variations and rondo alla turca, ( learning menuetto and trio making good progress) and the famous sonata C major k545, I managed to teach myself before this sonata, in the first movement of the f major Mozart incorporates into the piece the circle of fifths along with the chords, and it is in my humble opinion like he is experimenting with Jazz over hundred years before it was even invented, incredible how these musicians like Mozart, Beethoven and Bach etc influenced the music that we have today, Music and being able to play the piano and other instruments is a wonderfull God given gift to have, greetings from wales uk 😀
The most stupid thing to say is : this composer is better then the other, his music is better than... Art is a PERSONAL matter ! I like blue my wife green, I like Beethoven he likes Bach, he likes Picasso, an other prefers Rembrandt. All of those creators are EQUALLY sublime.
Thanks You so much! Great video and playing. Such a gift!
I'm a pianist and a piano tuner. I've played on some historical pianos, and they are SO inferior to the modern piano. The most important innovation was the metal plate, which came in around 1850, developed chiefly by Steinway. With the metal plate, strings could be put under much greater tension which increased the sustaining power of the notes dramatically. With the pianos that Chopin composed on, the long melody lines were heard chiefly in the imagination, because the actual sound died away very quickly.
So were the first bicycles, the first cars, the first planes....there is always a beginninge somewhere up to a maximum point. Electronics? Synthezisers? Hammond organ?
Wow, I didn’t know you guys could talk. Ive only ever been around guitar tuners so I wouldn’t know, but those sure never talked.
In many ways early pianos were a different instrument, hence often specifically called pianoforte or fortepiano. I believe JS Bach did mention the technical issues of the pianofortes he came across late in his life while the harpsichord was already very much a fully developed and more reliable instrument in the 1740s
I disagree that they're inferior. Yes, very different but I've played on historical pianos as well and it was really a revelation to play Mozart on a piano from his day. The keyboard was much more reactive which was wonderful for his running passages. Yes modern pianos have a bigger sound but I really love historical pianos and hearing/playing music of their time on them
No wonder some are still learning the songs from it.
All these masters are much more musical than I ever could hope to be, but the repretoire that speaks to me the most is that of Bach. His music strikes me as being the biggest of them all, not in terms of volume or tone colour but how it stimulates my mind. Whichever line of the music you listen to there's always something else interesting going on, and you could even listen to two lines together and hear this in the foreground and leave the rest in the background. It's because of this melodic complexity that I don't feel I've got every note down on the first listen. Every time you listen to Bach you get a new sound from his music.
Mozart and and Beethoven would agree with you! They owe literally everything they achieved to old Bach. We know by now that Beethoven studied Bach's fugues all his life and still took Bach lessons under Albrechtsberger two years before his death. Mozart even worshipped Bach's sons CPE (Mozart's teacher) and JC (aka the London Bach), so without the Bach family there would be no Mozart or Beethoven as we know them today.
JS Bach sits right at the top of the food chain.
I can't thank you enough for the expression (how it stimulates my mind), I became in love with Bach since I first listened to his music as well as many other great composers such as Mozart, but there was something unique about Bach music and you gave it to me today after so many years looking for this perfect expression which very few composers could give. Thank you forever....
Yes, and what you've said about Bach is a massive understatement.
Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
Bach is the most boring predictable and overrated composer of all time.
So what speaks to u is repetitive music. And of course a small chamber orchestra.
Very informative, thank you for sharing. As someone who uses harpsichord, organ, clavichord and piano, I find the differing techniques appropriate to each instrument so useful for composition - it also encourages thinking with an historical mindset, which helps interpreting the music 😊
Thank you for such an interesting and enlightening talk
G'day, Mr. Estrin! Thank you for a very informative, interesting, and simply-explained video. Bach and Mozart are my 2 favourite composers (in that order).
It is so important that people like you exist. Thanks
What an amazing lesson! I had never thought about how Bach's music, versus Mozart, et al, were so heavily influenced by the keyboard instruments they had at their disposal! This is so enlightening!
Take it with a grain of salt
Remember, Bach always composed with chorale voices in mind- not harpsichord. Much of his music was played by instruments which, like the human voice had very significant dynamics. Bach could compose fugues and other complex works completely away from the instrument, hearing it all in his head.
There is valuable information in the video, but once again, just because someone spends their life in the world of classical music, doesn’t mean they are equipped with the tools to time travel in history, or even have the anthropological intelligence to make a sound prediction about the past, even though they are lifelong academics.
@@HelloSpyMyLie, well, Bach definitely composed with keyboard in mind which is why he titled it so. One thing to note is that chorale writing was different from keyboard thorough-bass style writing. And Bach knew both of them expertly well. And we know this because his son wrote one of the best treatises on keyboard thorough-bass.
It was not always chorale style.
@@pjbpiano oh so you know why he titled it so then? It’s not like, just because that was the name of the instrument? But surely you know, yes, im sure.
Is that why his keyboard works have bass, tenor, alto and soprano voices with sometimes additional lines? Or no, no. Of course not. You know that the generic titling of the pieces means he composed with only keyboard in mind, but when it comes to multiple voices, no. That’s not referring to human voices. Got it.
Thank you for proving my point that we don’t have time machines but the academics will claim to be authorities on the matter.
The harpsichord is essentially a shit instrument and Bach loved it because he could emulate the organ/it’s an instrument that allowed him to “lay everything out” compositionally. As a human, he only had one voice to produce sound, so at the time the harpsichord and similar alternatives were the only convenient instruments for doing this. Bach was an aware of the instruments limitations. Dont project. Your description of thorough bass is that of a theory 1 student. “Expertly well” is not anywhere near an adequate superlative of Bach’s gifts. Modern “vertical” harmonic analysis does not even begin to scratch the surface of how baroque composers worked.
It is assinine to think that Bach could hear an organ, bowed instrument or human voice with extremely better dynamic capabilities than a harpsichord, and yet is totally unaware of the limitations of said harpsichord. It’s a well known fact that Bach always composed with choral voices in mind and it’s a main reason his music translates to any other instrument so fantastically
@@pjbpiano he would sing and “audiate” (hear EVERYTHING in his head) to compose his works. You would think someone who is trying to speak with authority on Bach, would have practiced enough Bach to know that to perform this music on any instrument, the musician must sing all of the lines to the best of their ability
One of your best presentations. I suggest in the Mozart you might solidify the l h into repeated chords to show just how the Alberti bass imparts movement.
Remember Bach's influence on Mozart, also Bach's son in London. When Mozart was in Leipzig, he was for many hours in Thomas church to study/read Bach's compositions in the archive. Mozart for sure was overwhelmed and for sure had a photographic memory.
Mozart literally owes everything to the Bach family. Only his fans sometimes don't like to admit it. 😅
And bach owes everything to Palestrina. Whats your point? @jaikee9477
Mozart was influenced by JC and CPE Bach's style, but far surpassed and advanced on both of them. JS Bach's influence on him was minimal. Handel was more seminal.
@@adig2414 Mozart was dreaming of Bach every night. Every! In every single note of Mozart there is Bach! It's the same with Chopin, it's the same with... snd do on and on... even Ritchie Blackmore!
@jeromejamies3641 this sounds like nothing more than ridiculous romantic hyperbole I'm afraid
@@jeromejamies3641nah mozart music pretty boring, hes like a Liszt type-super prodigy player composing music that makes you yawn-except liszt actually also had some spectacular gems like consolation 6
Chopin mogs Mozart
Good timing, moving from my first Bach Invention to now my first Mozart Sonata. Thanks for the video!
The harpsichord is a beautiful instrument with its own personality, if we could call it that, it has specific characteristics that define it among all instruments, maintaining a unique and special style and sound; It should be said that the harpsichord was before the piano, this fact in itself places it before its successor the piano in the line of time, which is why it deserves its own merit in the history of music and also as an instrument, with which it was composed. great masterpieces, like this beautiful piece that we can hear in this video, let us not underestimate either its importance in music, nor its sound qualities that make this instrument so special. Bach composed sublime pieces of art for God with this instrument and they are truly authentic masterpieces.
Excellent video. I can sit and listen to Bach (or Beethoven or Mozart) for hours and hours and never grow bored. I also appreciate that you're not breaking the information down to a 3rd grade level. I know that there is a profound need for music instruction at an elementary level, but it's nice to hear explanations geared toward a more educated audience. Thanks so much!
Excellent! Thank you for sharing and many blessings!
I listened to this video as I was doing sonething else, and realized that I had to listen to this masterclass again.
One of your best videos. This is on a level with your five videos on Burgmüller pieces. It would be nice if you could continue those. I discussed them with my piano teacher, as I am playing and transposing each piece into other keys.
I will consider that - thank you!
I learnt something from your short lecture. Thank you.
I knew Bach composed without dynamics but I never knew why until now. I thought it was so the place could interpret the music.
Even after your explanation, I still think Bach's music sounds weird on piano. Thank you for your presentation, it really was enlightening as I have never even seen a harpsichord in person.
Indeed, you can find dynamics markings in some of Bach's later works, such as WTC 2. They absolutely make sense with a piano in mind.
As far as is known, Bach probably didn’t write for the piano at all. WTC Book 2 was written from the late 1730s to the early 1740s. At that point, Bach’s only known encounter with the fortepiano was in 1735 when Silbermann, a famous early fortepiano builder, invited Bach to play and critique some of his creations. Bach did so and found that the fortepiano was far from a complete instrument, in general he was extremely critical, and there’s no evidence he took any instruments home with him, nor did he seem to want to. Bach did famously encounter Silbermann’s fortepianos again in Frederick the Great’s court in 1747, but while he seemed to be much more appreciative of them this time around (they had improved a great deal over the last decade or so), this occurred long after the completion of the Well Tempered Clavier. In any case, upon a brief skim of an Urtext of the book, I was unable to find a single instance of indicated dynamics. I certainly may have missed something, but even so, I suspect it would be just a couple of instances of piano or forte, which would be quite obviously intended for a harpsichord with 2 manuals, such as in the Italian Concerto. Nowhere would you find a case of crescendo or diminuendo which would indicate an instrument with more than 2 dynamic possibilities.
With earlier music by composers such as Bach, one must be careful of possible editorial additions provided in editions published in later times. Even the title of 'Moonlight' was joined to Beethoven's famous sonata by the publisher, not Beethoven himself.
@@Sathrandur I remember the markings explicitly mentioned being in the autograph.
@@burkhardstackelberg1203 Well, if that's the case then it's obviously a completely different story.
If you want to hear Bach played on the clavichord, I can recommend The Well-Tempered Clavichord - Preludes And Fugues By J. S. Bach
by Johann Sebastian Bach; Ralph Kirkpatrick, Deutsche Grammophon (413 419-1)
You can hear some of them for free at the following link, although it takes a while for them to load.
archive.org/details/lp_the-well-tempered-clavichord-preludes-an_johann-sebastian-bach-ralph-kirkpatrick/disc1/01.01.+No.+1+In+C+Major%2C+BWV+846.mp3
It would be nice if you posted a list of the pieces you played in the description.
The harpsichord excerpt is part of Bach's Italian Concerto. The fortepiano music is part of Mozart Sonata in C major k545 , the first movement. Then there is Bach's 5th French Suite in G major, the beginning of the 1st movement. Then there is part of the 2nd movement of Bach's E minor Toccata. Then the beginning of the Mozart Sonata in C major K545 on the piano. Then the beginning of the 2nd movement of Mozart's Sonata K545.
In July of 1781 Mozart began attending Sunday 10am musical soirées of Baron van Swieten in Vienna where ‘nothing but the fugues of Sebastian & Emmanuel Bach & Handel were performed’ which by the time of his marriage in August of 1782 had left an indelible mark on his compositional stile - we see a number of preludes & fugues newly composed for string quartet for performances at these soirées - even Mozart’s forte-piano sonatas (and concerti) were heavily infused with every nuance of contrapuntal ingenuity including krebs, stretto, thematic inversion, canonic imitation at the unison, octave, fifth, fourth, sixth etc -see for example the opening movement of the Klavier sonata in D-major K. 576 which makes use of complex fugal techniques rarely equaled even to-day-to say nothing of his great Mass in c-minor and his magnificent Requiem in d-minor fragments which shew Mozart’s exploration of fugal technique was still very much on his mind (we recall his studying under the famed contrapuntal teacher Padre Martini of Bologna as a 14-year old child-prodigy where he was awarded a graduate certificate from the Academia Filharmonica di Bologna having had to pass a difficult contrapuntal 4-part vocal exercise in the ‘stilo anticco’ which he managed to polish-off ‘in less than an hour when many maestri had to sweat for up to four hours to compleat’…
Also you should have mentioned the tuning of J.S. Bach’s keyboard instruments were ‘well-tempered’ (not using to-day’s ‘equal temperament’ wherein every single note on the keyboard is now tuned evenly into a semitone of ‘exactly 100 Pythagorean cents’) and also the fact that (at least to judge from the Leipzig & Weimar tuning forks from c. 1730) Bach’s A was tuned to 420Hz in winter and c. 425Hz in summer (Leopold Mozart’s Italian 1770 tuning forks had an A tuned to A=430Hz) which is nearly a semitone LOWER than to-day’s modern ‘standard’ of A= 440Hz which would have sounded very sharp to both composers…
According to Thomas Attwood’s recollections some decades after being one of Mozart’s composition pupils in Vienna (1 August 1785 to 4 March 1787) M. had a Walter Klavier ‘equipt with a 4-octave pedal board attachment at the base of the instrument ranging from c to c’’-which strengthened the sound of the bassline for his own Walter forte piano which a visiting Leopold Mozart wrote (‘your brother’s large Klavier has been carried out of his flat by piano movers at least a dozen times since I arrived to perform at his concerts in the Mehlgrub or at the Theatre or in some nobleman’s house…’ so he used this pedalboard during public performances of his Klavier concerti ‘which serv’d the Function of a 2nd piano’ (alas now lost, but other contemporary 1780-1800 examples of these ‘organ-pedal-like attachments’ exist in museums in Central Europe) …
Mozart’s contrapuntal exercises set for the 21-year old Attwood have been mainly preserved in a bound notebook of some 270 pages representing about 1/2 of the lessons he took from M. during his study years - and shew that M. followed the precepts of Johann Joseph Fux in his Gradvs ad Parnassvm (1725) which he used as his main textbook along with Martini’s contrapuntal Esemplare of 1770 - and shews Mozart’s thorough understanding of all aspects of 18th century contrapuntal technique (cf Adagio and Fugue for organ in a clock in f-minir K. 608 (Feb 1791) which displays the deepest understanding of contrapuntal theory
That was a fantastically informative read. Comments like this are invaluable for years to come!
Mozart knew how to follow all of the rules.
Bach likewise knew how to follow all of the rules ...
but more importantly, Bach knew how to follow rules, and then break them most effectively.
Mozart was the good little perfect-pitch boy of music, while Bach was the merely GOD of music.
@@scotthullinger4684 - presumably if Sebastian Bach had died in 1721 -two full years before being appointed at Leipzig at the age of just shy of 36 years-which was Mozart’s age at his own death, we might not to-day be singing Sebastian Bach’s praises as much - as he was able to live a fairly long & full life (at least by standards of the middle classes in thr early 18th century German states - dying blind at 65 years old…
Examining the evidence M. composed more than 940 musical compositions in his 30-year compositional career as a musician (despite the outdated Koechel numbering system !) and M. upon closer inspection of ‘influence’ to contemporaries actually achieved more in terms of ‘moving Western Art music forward by pushing the stylistic envelope to the very edge’ (cf. D: Giovanni (1787) and his final 7 sinfonias (from say, 1780 onward…) or his final 15 Klavier concerti which re-invented the medium for Beethoven to run with (see the d-minor masterpiece K. 466, Jan-Feb 1785;) and the great c-minor concerto K. 491, March 1786) or his ‘Great Mass in c-minor’ K. 427 (1782/1783) which is comparable in contrapuntal skill to Sebastian’s Mass in b-minor which was ‘pasticcio’d’ at the end of his life from over a dozen previously written Cantatas since his appointment at Leipzig in 1723 at age 38 years old - two years older than M. was when he died of renal failure following a streptococcal infection in December 1791-
One might list 150 more great masterpieces of the composer’s art-whereas old Sebastian was toiling away at his cantatas drastically confining his musical output types (genres) to sacred Protestant music in comparative seclusion in Leipzig where his fame as composer-organist-theorist was mainly localis’d to the northern German states…more’s’ the pity…but Sebastian wrote no operas in his whole life-unlike his youngest son Christian who became a leading opera & sinfonia composer in London whose works were performed all over Europe during his own lifetime and beyond …
There’s just no telling what other great Mozartean musical masterpieces inclufinf German & Italian opera & sacred music (including Grand Missae & oratorios), concerti for solo string & wind instruments or what chamber music would have been produced had M. been allowed to live for 65 full years as old Sebastian was ?
@@theophilos0910 - Mozart was constantly coddled during his entire life, beginning virtually at birth. Bach, on the other hand, possessed NO personal advantages, and he lived the most ordinary of lives while exposing himself to music education at every possible opportunity, and accepting whichever employment to be able to provide for his huge family. But for the most part, Bach was self taught. It was the NON-child prodigy Bach who achieved what he achieved pretty much on his own, even writing countless compositions for himself with NO nearby patron constantly pushing him to complete whichever compositional work. At the end ... Mozart only accepted jobs so he could pay off his tremendous debts, but never entirely managed it. His wife arranged for the sale of his works after his death just to survive because dear Wolfy was always such an irresponsible turd. Mozart was a narcissistic superstar, which is exactly what he wanted to be. Bach, on the other hand, was a humble COMPOSER. He generally disregarded any personal attention.
If Mozart had lived as long as Bach lived, we would have had only many multiple more of the same - a repeat of a repeat of a repeat - piano concerto, operas, string quartets, whatver - but nothing supremely more inventive as he aged.
Little Wolfgang reached his tippy-top intellectual and talent peak in his mid 20's - or therabouts.
@@theophilos0910 - Good old Bach was hired help, just like many other composers both before and since Bach existed. Mozart was just a pet of the royal courts, etc. But Bach composed many works which were never heard during his lifetime. He was extremely self motivated just to be a creator. Mozart often took jobs, towards the end of his life, merely to keep up with his contractual obligations. He was a "push my buttons,
and pull my strings, and then watch me compose" sort of a guy. J. S. Bach wrote NO operas because operas were not part of the Baroque canon, and his job was writing church music. He also wrote plenty of personal compositions which were not paid jobs, the sort of music which got discovered only LONG after he died.
Re Bach, harpsichord is specified or assumed in Goldbergs, Italian cto., French overture, the 5th Brandi, sonatas for flute, violin, gamba, and the harpsichord concerti (did I forget any?). Please refrain from making incorrect sweeping generalizations... One might also claim that the Musical Offering is piano music :-)
P.s., One of my fave recordings is of the gamba sonatas using a Silbermann-style piano instead of a harpsichord. The results are amazing, and evidence is presented that Bach himself may have publicly played exactly this program! (@Zimmermann's IIRC :-)
Well the fact that Bach preferred a piano like instrument and that he was such a great composer that he felt the Dynamics in his music I'm sure Bach would have loved to have had a Steinway I play Bach and Mozart pretty much the same although with Mozart you can pull more dynamics that means loud and soft but really the difference when I play Bach I play Bach with a little less Dynamics loud and soft but I still put a little bit of dynamics in Bachs keyboard music you can add dynamics of course as long as you don't over do it so to make the music a little less mechanical sounding one thing that's similar in my playing with Bach and Mozart I play both with a very smooth legato is one note slide smoothly into the next so there are some differences between playing Mozart I'm Bach but I think this was a really great video that explains about the development of the keyboard instruments and the composer's relationship with them but I feel in my heart I would never want to play Bachs original instruments I strongly feel that if the piano have been invented during his life he would have used it
I always loved to hear the Goldberg Variations on both the harpsichord, AND the piano.
But I think I actually prefer the harpsichord, only because then we hear more of Bach, and we tend to hear a bit less of the keyboard player, meaning how his interpretation could possibly somehow interfere with Bach's musical vision. It's a bit difficult to insert your own personality into a harpsichord. But on the other hand ...
Glenn Gould's second recording of the Goldbergs is positively illuminating and revelatory.
Bach's music is SO great that it takes a real mental retard to royally f*** it all up -
And yes, I've also listened to a few of THOSE recordings as well.
Thanks, real understandable and enlightning
If there were no Bach, the musical world would be different. Bach is the founder of everything
“If all musical literature - Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann - disappeared, it would be extremely sad, but if we lost Bach, I would be inconsolable,” said his colleague, the German composer Johannes Brahms, about Bach’s genius.
Greetings from Russia.
You will appreciate this: th-cam.com/video/yTVjv1wLwxE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=oxkr__PqIsUIzjbV
@@LivingPianosVideos Danke für den Link :) Leider spreche ich kein Englisch. Ich schreibe über einen Übersetzer und entschuldige mich für etwaige Ungenauigkeiten im Text. Ich bin aus Russland. Dennoch habe ich den Kern dessen verstanden, worüber der Autor sprach, und die Kommentare gelesen.
Ich habe nie Musik studiert. Ziemlich spät, mit über 50 Jahren, habe ich mich der klassischen Musik zugewandt. Und mir gefielen besonders die Werke von Bach. Und es kam zu dem Punkt, an dem mir der Gedanke kam, dass es gut sei, Bach nicht nur zuzuhören, sondern auch zu versuchen, ihn zu spielen.
Und dann habe ich mich endlich zusammengefunden, vor zwei Jahren habe ich mir ein Klavier gekauft und angefangen, Unterricht an einer Musikschule zu nehmen. Und jetzt spiele ich schon Bach :)). Jedes Mal, wenn ich anfange, ein Werk von Bach zu analysieren, frage ich mich, wie es möglich war, auf so etwas zu kommen. Auf so etwas kann man nicht kommen.
If Bach's music had died, I'm sure Brahms would've been very sad. But he was nowhere close to being the inventor of everything. He wasn't the inventor or anything. He was a retrograde figure. You could delete him from music history, classicism, romanticism, post wagnerianism, serialism and the darmstadt schools would remain basically the exact same. He didn't even gain true notoriety until the early 20th century, and by then, those tonal rules people wrongly think he invented were being thrown out the window.
And Brahms declared Mozart the greatest composer that ever lived in his final years.
Very informative! Perhaps you say more about the sonata form structure in a future video.
Here you go: livingpianos.com/what-is-a-sonata/ and livingpianos.com/what-is-the-most-important-musical-form-of-all-time-the-sonata/
Please do Beethoven vs Chopin next!!! 🤩🙏🤩🙏
They are so different and from different periods of music. But I will see if I can come up with something!
Chopin focused on piano mainly. His compositions were revolutionary for pianists and a new challenge
Debussy and Beethoven! 🌚
No need.
@@jeromejamies3641He’s buried in Paris with Voltaire and Jim Morrison. It’s an unreal graveyard, you should definitely see it if you ever go to Paris.
Super super super lovely playing fantastic
Thank you for the explanation.
0:58 Who else did a double take when he said "Did Bach play the piano? Well yes, there are records of him." I was wondering, was that under the HMV label?
You can hear Bach's playing on Spotify, but you can't beat his music on vinyl!
@@LivingPianosVideos I agree, and I bought the complete set of 48 preludes and fugues on clavichord by Kirkpatrick back in the day soon after the record was was released. I still have them in the original box.
I often wonder how it must have been for a musical genius like Bach to be introduced to the well tempered tuning. Bach wrote 2 complete books, just because of his enthusiasm about the well tempered tuning system, of which the first (The Well Tempered Clavier Book 1) is the most famous.
I cannot grasp how that would be...
What if we would be introduced to a new tuning system in these days, our current time. It would be very strange indeed, but it would take a genius like Bach to embrace it in such a way that he wrote 24 Preludes and 24 Fugues in this new tuning system.
Thank you for this video. I really liked it a lot.
But... I must admit... even though the greatness of Bach and Mozart cannot be underestimated... the biggest of them all is and will always be Van Beethoven.
Greetings from a fellow-piano teacher 🙂
There’s no doubt that Beethoven was a phenomenal, musical genius. You might appreciate this perspective as well: livingpianos.com/who-is-the-greatest-composer-of-all-time/
Beethoven and Mozart said that Handel was the greatest of all time and Bach said that if there was one person he wanted to meet more than any other it was Handel.
Why not include Beethoven in Your comparison? (Is Mozart really necessary?)
Thank you! Very interesting-
A very, very interesting tutorial, thank you. So much better that talk on some “old” piano. 99.9% of the world pianist will never see or hear some obsolete piano.
Very informative!
Okay, I stipulate at the outset that I haven't watched this video yet.
But going in, I'd expect to hear at least a little bit about Glenn Gould's differing views on the two composers.
That could be a video unto itself!
It's a shame that so many people are still obsessed with the con artist, Glenn Gould.
He had a pedal harpsichord too he played his glorious trio sonatas on as well as on organ
I actually don't agree with having to play Bach's music in a more homogeneous way, dynamically speaking. In fact, something that was lacking in this short video was the generally greater degree of freedom baroque music gives to the player compared to other styles, for ornaments, especially. Bach's music has so much potential when you escalate the dynamics in important sections, or highlight different voices.
You’re right! In fact, a lot of Baroque music was written with figured bass rather than having all the notes written out. The music was actually improvised by the keyboardist and continuo player (bass line).
@@LivingPianosVideos That's amazing!! How did they avoid parallel 5ths and 8ths? Or did it have a greater degree of freedom in that case?
Wow, that was great!
hmm, wonder what that 'piano' marking is intended for you can find in in the prelude in g# minor, WTC B2?
There are some keyboard pieces of Bach which do have dynamics, but not many. His Italian Concerto is a good example of one that has dynamics throughout for each hand!
Some of Bach's manuals-only organ pieces can work on piano. I've even heard performances where another player plays the pedal part.
I'm doing the Gigue Fugue in g major on a keyboard with my bass player taking care of the pedal parts 😍
Super helpful.
The harpsichord still sounds like a banjo to me albeit one w even less dynamical possibilities. Listening to the 5th Brandenburg concerto i always wish it was played on an early hammerklavier..Anyway, Bach played on piano, despite the usual limited dynamics used still sound absolutely awesome. Can music be that great that you dont actually miss dynamics? Clearly it can..
I would postulate that despite the differences in musical style, Bach & Mozart probably had very similar playing techniques (articulated, independent hands...).
JC Bach was one of Mozart's key teachers...!
Call me a philistine but something about that demo @ 5:00 reminds me strongly of something Freddie Mercury once wrote or played. :-(
Thank you.
3:52 By the way, can we see more of this performance?
This is a short documentary about Living Piano: Journey Through Time: Historic Concert Experience th-cam.com/video/6dfsxcd3cA0/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=LivingPianosVideos
I grew up thinking Mozart wrote for Loony Tunes. (EDIT: which is probably why I love Mozart :)
Thanks
It should be noted that Mozart's keyboard music became more contrapuntal later in his life after playing through Bach's keyboard pieces. So the differences between Bach and Mozart aren't as cut and dried as one might think.
It's true that Mozart could write a great fugue! He just didn't do very many of them. Beethoven and Brahms were also masters of counterpoint.
@@LivingPianosVideos And Mendelssohn too
Danke♥️💐☕️
Sir. And one question，Please. What different between 「Suite」and「Partita」？
While both suites and partitas are generally a collection of dance movements, partitas are usually for solo instruments whereas suites can be for solo instruments or ensembles.
Thank you very much.
Two minor points of order.
First, a good harpsichordist can actually get quite a bit of dynamic range. Not a lot, but some. By sustaining the notes longer. It works surprisingly well.
Second, (which you mentioned!) the Mozart era piano was a disaster. At least for owning one in the modern era. Why? The hammers are fragile, so a pianist used to a modern piano will overplay and break the hammers. Like I said, a disaster. We started with a modern repro of a Mozart period piano (father was a crazed Mozart fan), but got fed up with the broken hammers bit and replaced it with a harpsichord. So growing up (Boston, 1960s), the Mozart that got played in our house was the string quartets and the big jam sessions were Vivaldi and the like. (Harpsichords require tuning every time they are played, so a half hour of complete silence was required on jam session nights while father tuned the harpsichord. I play jazz nowadays, and the clubs here never tune the pianos, and it's always a disaster, but that's another rant.)
But, yes. Exactly. The instruments were developing over that period and the composers were writing to the instruments of their day, so an awareness of that history is important.
a. I have been playing a Stein fortepiano, model 1784, for forty years and have never broken a hammer. Not even a string by the way. b. A historically built harpsichord keeps its tuning for at least a week. Music from the eighteenth century also deserves an eighteenth century sound, Bach on a modern piano lacks the eighteenth century atmosphere. I think. But who am I?
Great synthesis. You know what would be cool? Folks play Bach all the time on pianos. What does Mozart sound like on a harpsichord? That might really show what the difference is like ...
That's a great suggestion. When I get my harpsichord back in shape, I'll do that!
@@LivingPianosVideos I'll look for the video. I got rid of my harpsichord cause it was such a huge pain to keep it in tune. Basically had to be adjusted at least once a week! But I'd love to hear your demo!
Mozart also played the harpsichords until his death! He even played his piano concertos on the harpsichord, with an orchestra. His youth concerts were even written for the harpsichord and even KV 271 was written for the harpsichord, read Siegbert Rampe's book about Mozart's keyboard music.
Nice video, although I must admit I have reservations about the frequent "deer in the headlights" moments. I guess the trick is not to watch him! Thanks for posting anyway!
Sir, wonderful video! I love the fact you dressed up in period clothing for your performance. ❤.
Bach is the greatest!!!.
The real father of music
Both Mozart and Beethoven were trained by Franz Joseph Haydn
They all used the available instruments. As did Chopin, Grainger etc.
If Bach & Mozart had a Bösendorfer - or a Wurlitzer Pipe Organ available, they'd have written for them.
And ditched the harpsichord in no time..
Mozart wrote for fortepiano, harpsichord, clavicord, organ etc. If there had been synthesizers he would have written for those, too.
On second thought, this raises an interesting question.
In Mozart's time, no electricity.
Present times, too much electricity.
Would Mozart have composed the same way in this environment? I think people slept better back then.
Just imagine what Mozart would have written if he’d been exposed to all the subsequent composers who came after him!
❤❤❤
Love your videos Robert. One correction: Bach did write two pieces specifically for an instrument: the double keyboard clavecimbel. Andras Schiff explains here: th-cam.com/video/BmtbRF-_z98/w-d-xo.html
i always liked bach, loved others and hated mozart.. i cant stand mozart
I think of it as 2 separate melodies jousting for supremacy
Interesting, but I feel that you might be generalizing somewhat. Mozart wrote such a variety of music such as cannot be objectified easily.
This is true! However, there are some overall subjective differences between these two composers that are influenced by the period styles and the technologies of the instruments that can be perceived in their music.
@@LivingPianosVideos Also true. Interestingly, Mozart saw the development of the fortepiano.
For years I was under the mistaken belief that, since Bach's clavier didn't have a sustain pedal that I shouldn't use it when playing his music. I now understand that, if Bach had had it, he would have used it. (I noticed, Maestro, that you did sustain your Bach....) Imagine what B and M would have done with today's technology!
This will be interesting for you: livingpianos.com/should-you-use-pedal-in-bach/
🎉 utube JOHN BAVAS ΤΟ ΠΑΛΙΟ ΡΟΛΟΙ
😮😳
Mozart's music is nice but I think it has too many notes.
#310_🇺🇸
Mozart = 99% of his music is for entertainment, for impressing the common crowd, for money.
Bach = True spiritual music, written for praising God or refreshment of the soul.
Mozart was so much deeper. Less sanctimonious preaching, and knee bending to his guy in the sky.
@flexusmaximus4701 : Only Mozart's Requiem and a few minority of his works. Most of Mozart is written to impress the crowd, he even admitted so himself in a letter to his father.
Ridiculous comment.
@@Simplyveej : Only ridiculous to shallow people
@@mtv565 ridiculous gate-keeping that's really just childish justification of "My favourite composer is better and more worthy than yours!" 🤣
comparing J S Bach with anyone (even Mozart) is what we Greeks call (and I hope you understand) hubris. It is the worst a human can do against gods. Bach is not "a composer". If you want to talk about homophony and polyphony ok be my guest.Unless you don't understand Bach. In this case I forgive you
Let's face it, once you've heard Mozart's music, there's no going Bach...
“Bach and Mozart, two great composers”…
That’s a bit of an understatement, buddy 😂
👍
Don't even need to watch the video to reply - Mozart's music is so simple that I find it very boring, and it's so easy to play. Bach is a master of of musical structure and his music is very difficult to play because it is far superior !!!!!
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Mozart is more like pop music. Bach is an academic.
That's what I thought when I was 16 too. Its a top of the bell curve opinion.
Mozart is chop sticks -
And Bach is the God of Music -
Most of the great composers preferred Mozart. Cry.
@@adig2414 - Nothing you can prove, of course.
Mozart is to Bach what checkers is to chess. Seize reality -
Bach is the God of Music. Don't believe me. Believe the cellist Pablo Casals.
Crocodile tears. I weep for your lack of insight. Ah, who am I kidding? No, I don't.
You're incapable of grasping it. Bach was both a keyboard master, and choral master. Organ, harpsichord - any keyboard instrument. Mass, oratorio, cantata -
Moreover, a master of contrapuntal technique. TOTAL GENIUS TO THE CORE.
Mozart was merely a child prodigy who remained a child his whole life.
@@scotthullinger4684 I can prove it very easily, but I wouldn't dream of proving it to someone who typed out a reply as cringey, vacuous, and grammatically incoherent as that. When I discuss music with people, I like to ascertain that they're operating on an intellectual plane that can at least parse what I'm saying. With you, I suspect it'd be like trying to prove string theory to an ape.
If I thought more highly of your capacity for learning, I'd implore you to look at the statements of Brahms, Liszt, Chopin, Wagner, Debussy, Ravel, R. Strauss, Mahler, Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Furtwangler, Szell, and many more. All these stone cold musical geniuses were perfectly cognizant of your beloved Bach, yet clearly held Mozart as the greater, and in most cases, the single greatest. You're suggesting that you have some magical enlightenment that they lacked? Lmao. Google 'top of the bell curve', and you'll see your selfies as results.
And a word of advice, if you are going to spout nonsense, be a little less cringy about it. 'gOD oF MuSIc', 'GenIUs tO tHe CoRe' - you sound like a fucking Taylor Swift fan. Bach would sneer at your sycophantism.
@@adig2414 - As I already stated, which you childishly deleted, Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting.
Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing.
Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music."
Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
@adig2414 - As I already stated, which you childishly deleted, Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting.
Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing.
Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music."
Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
The difference is that Mozart sucks
Yeah he is a farth
Grow up.
@adig2414 - As I already stated, which you childishly deleted, Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting.
Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing.
Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music."
Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
Mozart encounters Art of the Fugue -
th-cam.com/video/zArUrVlyQrI/w-d-xo.html
You may appreciate this: th-cam.com/video/yTVjv1wLwxE/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@jeromejamies3641 - Nope, not true in the least. Bach had a huge impact on ALL subsequent composers, including Mozart, who expressed fascination at Bach's music. As a musician or composer ... you make one eternal round with Bach: You begin with Bach ... and then you end again with Bach after first exploring all of the other GREATS here, there, and in between.
You are spot on! th-cam.com/video/yTVjv1wLwxE/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Mozart was absolutely NO slouch of a composer! But on the other hand ...
Mozart was light years behind Bach with regard to creativity, inventiveness, contrapuntal technique, keyboard and choral prowess ... and all the rest. To top it off, a colossal body of works.
Comparing Bach to Mozart is like comparing the Sun to the Moon.
Mozart was paraded around Europe as child by his parents as if he were a circus performer.
Bach had a huge family to feed, all of them very supportive, and he still managed to meet the demands of those who employed him.
This video isn’t comparing the music of Bach and Mozart, but just how to approach performing their works differently from one another.
Let's just EXCLUDE all of the things which don't matter - their life details - and examine only their music.
Mozart was great ... and Bach was SUPREMELY masterful, prolific, and GREAT -
Bach was the Cream of the Crop, the Best of the Bunch, the Pick of the Pack ...
Mozart was merely the cream of the crop.
Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music."
Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
We are in agreement: th-cam.com/video/yTVjv1wLwxE/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
@adig2414 - As I already stated ... which you childishly deleted OVER AND OVER AGAIN, many multiple times ... Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player" on most occasions.
@adig2414 - As I already stated ... which you childishly deleted OVER AND OVER AGAIN, many multiple times ... Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player"
@adig2414 - As I already stated ... which you childishly deleted OVER AND OVER AGAIN, many multiple times ... Mozart is to chopsticks as Bach is to chess. Mozart was a child his whole life, while Bach, one of the most prolific composers of all time, wrote masses, cantatas, oratorios, etc. and more keyboard works for harpsichord, organ, and clavichord than you're capable of counting. Bach's music went into space on a Voyager mission on a disc fashioned of copper and gold for all those aliens out there like you who know nothing. Bach was, as the Spanish cellist Pablo Casals said, "The God of Music." Mozart was barely "the most valuable player"
- NOBODY is saying that Mozart was NOT great.
It's just that good old Bach was infinitely more prolific and superior to Mozart, the child prodigy who had every available advantage extended to him from the outside - quite unlike Bach.
Towards the end ... you had to pull all of Mozart's strings, and push all of his buttons, to get anything out of him. Bach in fact died while in the act of composing - he possessed very little if any fame during his lifetime.
Let's just EXCLUDE all of the things which don't matter - their life details - and examine only their music.
Mozart was great ... and Bach was SUPREMELY masterful, prolific, and GREAT -
Bach was the Cream of the Crop, the Best of the Bunch, the Pick of the Pack ...
Mozart was merely the cream of the crop.
I haven’t deleted any of your comments!
@@LivingPianosVideos - I won't believe that until you stop doing it.
By the way ... how man fake names do you have?