Big Clive. I was able to"fix" a water distiller that burned out the on/off switch because of you. I used your logic found the problem and fixed it. Thanks big guy. I wish I was as trained and adept at electronic issues as you.
S Holder . You made a great start. It just takes time brother. Get in the trenches and you will learn more then you can imagine. Like you did. Don't be afraid to try. Just be careful. Cheers.
@@robertsmiczsmiczamplificat593 I am careful. I fear and respect electricity. I did a small circuit in our barn. A breaker box and 3 receptacles on 110V. I think I read the chapter in the book 4 times to make sure I didn't screw up. But FYI, I am of the womanly persuasion so it's sister, not brother.
S Holder another good idea that sounds like showing off, but is actually for safety: Work with one hand behind your back. Not necessarily behind your back, but only one hand in the electrical stuff at a time. If you do make a mistake, and get a shock, you've only got one hand in circuit, and you're much less likely to jump through your heart.
Sooner or later, somebody's going to immerse their finger in that water or touch its spigot. "staying back after a repair" only works for a short while, unless you'd only be waiting for a guineapig.
This is so lovely. I live in the US, but I worked the Fringe for Gilded Ballon many years ago. Seeing 16a Ceeform sitting on a flight case while hearing a Scottish voice and pipes just warms my heart!
Really love these industry videos, Clive. Starting off as a theatre technician working in lots of small scale theatre. Really informative of what’s out there in the big scale.
I was working in MTV Finland 1975-2001 and we had RCA TK-45 color cameras which had very thick camera cable having hundreds of pins. Quite often I had to repair those. Naturally the fault usually was in the center pins and I had to remove huge amount of pins before I could fix the problem.
Harting is a lego, you order housing, internals, contacts, accessories separately. You basically compile your own custom connector. You can have whatever in there, signal, power, data, fiber optics, pneumatics, coaxial, pretty much whatever you can think of. The trick is to keep track of what series connector parts you use, in what order they go together and what the actual part numbers are. Although, it must be noted, putting pneumatics in a same connector with electricity is generally a bad idea, it sometimes happens that instead of air you get oil or water from somewhere upstream. www.harting.com/sites/default/files/2017-11/Han-Pneumatik-Modul_Hint_0.jpg
Tube is a tube, you can put strawberry syrup through it for all it cares. It's just that in the unlikely event of a leak, an electrical connector is one of the worst places it could happen at.
Nostalgia! Very reminiscent of the stuff I used to work with when I did time on a sound & light crew in my old hometown. A part of my life that is rapidly slipping into the past. We used the Socapex connectors for both sound systems & lighting. Have spent many an hour soldering both multicore cables into those and taking out tails to either NL4 speakon or to mains plugs / sockets. We also had breakout boxes similar to yours but we didn't use the 16amp Ceeform, just the standard NZ "crowsfoot" 10amp outlet for connecting to individual lights. There was some Ceeform stuff, but the main 32 amp three phase connectors were the New Zealand made PDL-56 series, which are very waterproof, as they have a screw ring and gasket. And they needed to be at some of the shows & raves we did. When the three-phase got up to the next level of distro, 63 amp Ceeform connectors were common. Any more current than this and it was usually individual cables with Cam-Lock connectors.
These are connectors I have been considering setting up for my tools. My woodshop class in HS had similar connectors which were compatible with a wall jack if you flipped the retainer lock back out of the way. Each stationary tool and table had a 6-way bolted onto it somewhere to plug loose tools like palm sanders in. And my favorite feature regardless of cable tech, individual breaker switches on each port with status lights: flashing green in use, green for safe to use, yellow for fault and red for non-functional. Majority of the time faults were idiots tripping breakers and moving to a new port instead of just resetting the breaker.
CEE connectors are commonly used in datacenters to distribute 16/32A single phase and 16/32/65A three phase. And all construction work is done with the same CEE connectors (distribution boxes and cables). This makes CEE the most widely used standard in this part of Europe for almost anything (events, congresses, construction, datacenter, telco, etc). I haven't seen the old (pre CEE) connector in a while, guess it's phased out completely. I'd love Neutrik' PowerCon due it's size and locking. Compared to IEC C13/C14 (servers/networking), which lacks that (as official standard, there are some clips on some hardware). In datacenters Cat5(e) is used for RS485 and Ethernet (IP) to communicate with PDU's (power readout and on/off). Harting is used in the entertainment industry, but shifts to (ethernet or DMX over) Cat5(e). Since controllers are cheaper then (a lot of) copper cable used with Harting. Looks like more and more industries use the same standards (where possible).
I work in a Grip and Electric rental house and our Neutriks fucking come back broken all the time. They still work technically but the locking slide comes off easily then the small spring is often lost.
Back when I was doing tech in school, the high school theatre used NEMA L5-20 and the middle school used stage pin *shudders*. When ever equipment moved from one space to the other (somewhat often), we'd either end up lugging a stack of adapters everywhere or spend a couple hours re-terminating everything.
We use Ceeform connectors for our network stacks too, each device has a kettle lead, but they all meet in a box, out of which comes a single ceeform plug into the wall :-).
Yes, regarding CEE, I've seen it before, but it's rather rare. Socapex comes up not too rarely as multicore connector for as many as 48 pins. Harting tends to be preferred for power applications, rather than signal.
DA666 possibly red ones? CEEform is standard in NL and DE for three phase connections, and then it’s red. The blue single-phase 230V type is basically just caravans, and the occasional industrial application, and yellow which is for single phase 110V is something I’ve never actually seen in person.
Hey I was the lighting tech who took the first ever Socapex cabled rig out on the road! Peter Straker's only tour as a "pop star" paid for by his then partner Freddie Mercury in November / December 1978! This was a Showlites innovation and that first rig ran 8 circuits per connector with 3 common earths and 10' ( 3M ) IWBs ! The first rig had 6 par64 and 2 Patt 764 profiles on each bar. These were really unwieldy and not a realistic one man lift! we learned on that tour that we should go with 6 lamp 8' bars which became standard thereafter and we re-wired the socapex distributions accordingly! Please contact me directly if you want more history from those days
Sock connectors! I work part time as a stage hand with 3 theaters one is broadway and the other two are smaller and an old school auditorium in Nashville Tennessee nice to see you show the world these things
Here in the US, I rarely see CeeForm connectors used for power, though it is still used to a degree. In the US, I mostly see Cam-Lok connectors used for big items (such as 24KW "Daylight" fresnels) and for lower current items, I see Hubbell Twist Lock used
I worked in the industry I personally love that your teaching about this. I even did an Adelle and Ozzy concert on Ozzy I was basically his personal Butler lol awesome job
It makes so much sense to find out you work for PRG. I worked for a major live audio provider in Aus. What you call a Harting in Australia is usually called a Weiland and is mostly only used for chain motors. I started an electrical apprenticeship here in Aus and asked the electricians if they had heard of CeeForm or powercon and they looked at me as if was taking jibberish. The beautiful thing about powercon is that it's good for 20A at 240v and it's the same size as a 10A IEC. I sometimes miss working on gigs but I don't miss hauling 100m of powerlock though.
Wow I’ve been following your channel for so long now and never realized you worked in the same industry. Really cool stuff. Definitely a bigger fan of the True1 connector over power con especially since the connectors can now plug into each other if you need to extend further. Not sure if you’ve heard about the new connectors being used on tour that still have the 6 circuits but also carry data in the center few pins and the best part is it’s quarter turn collar lock so no more gummed up threads and wiggle-turn-wiggle-turn of Socapex
Apparently D54 was almost exclusive to the UK, but it looks somewhat similar to LMX/MPX which was mostly (AFAIK) used on small point-of-load dimmer packs, but with different voltage levels. Here in the US prior to DMX we had AMX192, which was a similar serial/analog scheme that used an interesting combo of an analog voltage level signal with an RS485 clock on a 4-pin XLR.
Calling in from another part of the entertainment industry/live events. Hopefully will bump into you one day on site. Thanks for the entertaining videos
😂 the socapex brings back some memories for me, it looks a lot like a stage pin multi cable, up until last year the small high school black box theater I’ve been working in had used stage pin as the main lighting power connectors, so we had 2 stage pin multi cable panels on each side of the stage, each with 8 connections, then a multi cable would run to a certain spot in the grid, and it would connect to a fanout that had 8 stage pin connectors on it to connect lights too, it’s an older ETC system, and all the dimmers were in a cabinet back stage where we had 48 dimmers each controlling 2 channels which gave us a total of 96 750watt halogen channels. Those multi cables were a pain in the butt, they were about and inch thick, and they weighed a ton. Now we’ve completely converted to LED pars and spots, that use powerCon for power and DMX for data transmission.
Sadly here in the USofA many manufacturers of DMX gear are using 3 pin XLRs. Apparently this is supposed to be for convenience, grab any cable with XLR and it works for audio or lighting. Or perhaps because 3 pins are cheaper than 5. But of course this muddles things up for some users. It's certainly easier to identify cables depending on the connector.
Interesting to see you working in the entertainment industry. I was recently introduced to your channel by AVE, and have watched a bunch of videos but never made the connection. I have been in the industry in the US for the last 15 or so years, although I'm more an office rat these days doing design & engineering. In the US we see Socapex quite a bit, along with Powercon being common more recently, but twist lock connectors (NEMA L5-20,L6-20,L14-30,L21-30 being common at least in our inventory) as well as 20A stage pin for dimmed circuits. For high amperage (feeder) in the US it is almost exclusively Cam-Lock 400A single conductor connectors from what I've seen.
Back in the mid 1970s, I had to relocate a hard wired analogue dimmer control panel to install it into a 20 foot console we built. This was in the days before digital control circuitry. At that time, the US electrical code required we use 12 gauge wiring, even though the panel only used 24 volts. I think there were about 100 wires involved. We had to buy 6 inch greenfield flexible conduit to hold them all.
I am aware of that. I should have been more specific. The only current feed component on the dimmer board were small 1000 ohm variable coil wound liner resistors. The issue was the code hadn't caught up with the technology of that time. In this case the amperage running through those 12 gauge wires was only about 200 ma which fed the electronics (tracs and control circuitry) in the dimmer panel back stage. At that time, electronic dimmers had only been around a few years. Just 7 years earlier, my high school which was brand new was still using variable transformers.
Yep - back in my college days I was M.E. for a couple shows, but my passion always was (and is) audio. I haven't done theatre in years, but I love it when you're at work and talking about current industry things, as I've been out of the loop for a bit too long at this point. ;-) Love your channel Clive :-D
that blue connector you call ceeform is used on basically all camping grounds and caravans, I had no Idea they were used by the entertainment industry too. Makes sense, though, since you don't have to deal with the annoying different plug types all over Europe that way.
tommihommi1 - I was referring to the usage in the U.K. That is on construction and building sites, temporary engineering worksites and other temporary supply systems (e.g. temporary site / utility / public lighting). The 110V is supplied via 240V to 110V isolation transformers. And the secondary supplying the 110 is centre tapped to earth (ground). So the maximum voltage between earth/ground and either conductor is 55V AC. If there's a power tool available in the U.K., there will be a version rated at 110V and supplied with a yellow CEEform plug... (including radios to keep the workers happy :-) ).
@@Mark1024MAK that seems like a whole lot of effort for very little gain. Everyone else in europe just uses the standard stuff everywhere. Especially since you're gonna want beefy devices with lots of powah on building sites, so the higher voltage and option for 400V three phase for the big guns kinda helps a lot.
Mark 1024MAK Spot on mate...the three types are similar but not actually interchangeable. Intentionally so for safety reasons and to keep Red 3 phase, Blue 240 v and Yellow 110v from being connected. The UK safety people won't allow mains tools on a building site which aren't 110v, lots of builders like battery tools for this reason. There is no way 3 phase would be allowed in what is often a wet environment as its lethal.
I like the multipin connector on the side of the connector box, reminds me of the military connectors i used to solder wires to, in a factory :-). Locating notch and ring, really nice design, reliable.
Intresting seeing the different uses for some familiar connections, the 16 amp blue 'commando' plug is pretty standard (caravan sites) also used in industry, we used them in my last job, (plastic injection moulding factory) for connecting auxiliary equipment to moulding machines, also used the 4 pin Harting plugs and the rectangular version of the 19 pin plug for connecting hot runner heating controllers to mould tools and for data interconnections for pick & place robots. Also used the red 32amp 3 phase commando type plugs on 9Kw mould tool water heaters.
In Estonia in stage industry we are using: shuco, 16A 3phase CEE, 32 3phase CEE, 63A 3phase CEE, 125A 3phase CEE, power lock for 400A and for bigger loads cable luggs and big cables :D . For multi core we are using socapex, it is also used for direct control hoists.
Great video BC. I love this stuff. I work in Television. I have been an Engineer traveling in TV since 1985. I am surprised that (unfortunately) all the cheap Chinese consumer DMX stuff is all using standard 3 pin xlr connectors, which is pretty lame when all the audio is using 3 pin xlr. Like you said in pro lighting it's pretty much 5 pin Xlr cables for dmx signals. I should have thought of this and done some show an tell on American television. Pretty much standard stuff, but would have been fun to kill some time. I never had time to make content, but I love watching yours. Great stuff. Thank you. Cheers.
Robert Smicz thing is though, DMx protocol on a 3 pin XLR running over microphone cable is horribly out of spec and not entirely reliable, but it does *work*. And usually well enough - at the cable lengths involved - for the sort of people that buy cheap Chinese dmx gear.
Jasper Janssen. exactly sir, that's why I'm so surprised the consumer dmx stuff uses shielded xlr cable. We use mostly 4 pair twisted pair telco cable (doubled up pairs) terminated with xlr 5 pin connectors. I believe the dmx data is EIA 485 differential data and runs very long distance on twisted pair. Using standard Audio 3 pin xlr cable does not work very far. Yes it works for garage bands small lighting. The cheap Chinese cables are using 3 pin xlr connectors, but are not using shielded wire just cheap 3 conductor cable.
Ive had over 50m runs on mic cable. Never had a problem. Yep, it's not best practice, yep all runs should be terminated. But, when the show has to go up, if it works it works.
In North America we tend to use twist lock instead of Cee form (we call it pin and sleeve) we have 15/20 amp versions for both 120v and 240v. TRue1 seems to be becoming a standard here.
In data centers, we used twist lock up to 30A. After that, is was typically pin and sleeve or CS because there isn't a NEMA standard twist locked rated at 40A and 50A (last time I checked). NEC prefers you to hardwire I guess. That's not practical in a data center though.
Oddly enough, the True1 seems to be a solution looking for a problem. There are NEMA configuration 50 amp twist-lock plugs. They aren't specifically NEMA, but they use the exact same configuration - and since Hubbell invented the plugs, they can darn well determine the 50 amp plug and receptacle :) (They list them as "NEMA configuration", using the L16-30 designation)
IT style twistlock (Hubbel) plugs are so flimsy feeling. I hate those things. I'm not sure how often they develop loose connections, but it seems like it ought to be a common problem - at least if they are subjected to more than a few mating cycles. I use SpeakOn connectors when I moonlight as a sound guy - they're fantastic. I would love to see PowerCon connectors replace NEMA twist-locks.
I love how comfortable you are recording a video with people in the room watching you, most people are like, holy shit other people! And then run away and get all shy, like how people stop talking to eachother when you walk past them
the 4 pin Harting is just called HAN4. A colleague almost got electrocuted when she picked one up from the ground, and the insulation on the cable was broken so the Metalcasing was live at 230V
My seven years in theatre was primarily indoors, but we always used three prong twist lock connectors. Fast to swap, impossible to get in the wrong direction, and you can just about swing from them before they release. Edit - I've used a lot of XLR cables as well. Mostly audio, including connecting an ANCIENT stereo microphone - one of the ones that looks like a huge hammer head from the 50's. (still have it).
We once got a dmx controller back from a customer who thought it was a great idea to use XLR for both DMX and 230V in the same installation. Needless to say, when we opened it up we found the varistor across the DMX output had completely disappeared, leaving only a scorch mark in its place.
Actually, now that I think of it the vaporized varistor may have been the customer who decided to use 5-pin XLR instead of 4-pin XLR for 48V scrollers (since the convenience of using an easy-to-find connector obviously outweighs the risk of connecting things that really should not be connected).
Ah yes. This is how I learned how to solder. I’ve made many speakon, trs, xlr, neutrix and every other connector you could think of way back in the day. I used to work for a company called Quality Sound and Video. Also used to setup for many large concerts.
Quality Sound and Video used to be a major player in the Outside Broadcast and Location Film industry. Your bunch did the sound for a location filmed at St Bartholomew the Great church in London - and they were parked right outside the lab where I worked at that time (North East Thames Radioimmunoassay Laboratory - better known as NETRIA)! I think the vans were painted maroon (though I'm not so certain of that!)
I love little control boxes like that. I have a multitude in my shop, having been made over the years for various purposes... they have a certain something that most commercial offerings lack.
I was talking to some american friends about their heavy current connectors and thus learnt about 'camlock' connectors... I was very scared.. Inconsistent colours, exposed connectors, nothing to stop you connecting live to earth.. Then I looked up powerlock looks SO much safer! And after a short amount of googling, it seems that camlock is simply outlawed in the EU due to being 'windowmaker' class plugs. :) Look forward to seeing the video about them in use.
The Harting Han connectors also go by the name "washdown connector" (due to their gasketed construction) here in North America , when you're buying them from other suspects like McMaster-Carr or Automation Direct. Love seeing a fellow lampie share our world!
I remember some years ago running a multicolor 10v cable down a pipe to the desk, the shell had to be removed and then it would drop down it with no problem :) I came in one day during the install to find that for some reason the boss had cut the whole plug assembly off due to not being able to get it back up the pipe for some reason. It cost him a full plug assembly as the pins were crimped and not re usable, all he had to do was to take the shell off !
The audio world also uses 5 pin XLR. Very rarely for stereo audio. The most common case I've seen so far is for tube microphones actually. 2 for signal, 1 for ground and I guess 2 for the 240V phantom power from the power supply.
When you get into multi universe DMX, I am surprised you didn't cover DMX over Ethernet and the Cat 5 jacks and plugs inside XLR shells called ethercon connectors. Of the two most popular standards Artnet and E1.31 or streaming ACN, I prefer streaming ACN. It can use traditional network switches for low cost and high reliability distribution. Many lighting desks have either Artnet or E1.31 built in for multi universe shows. An example is the Leviton Piccolo series consoles supporting Artnet on Ethernet. With more DMX and intelligent fixtures with the transition to LED over incandescent fixtures, the scoapex connector is falling from use very rapidly. DMX over Ethernet to each truss is becoming more common as reconfigurations are very simple. Plug in power and network connection and the install is done except setting the universe and channels used by the fixtures on the bar.. Have you started using DMX over networking yet? With a small number of universes, a laptop and a wireless router makes for a great traveling show setup. Router is on stage and the laptop now only requires a power connection to run a show cue list of scenes. I typically for a small show run between 1 and 3 universes over ACN streaming E1.31 ethernet. For larger shows where wireless network connections may be an issue, and more universes need supported, a Shielded CAT 5 cable is used for the link. If you know where to look, there is some very affordable ACN and ArtNet gear available. Some software is low cost or free. For one universe of ArtNet Freestyler is dated but works well. For multi universe Streaming ACN, QlightsPlus works very well for many show applications. Both of these programs are free. There are more complex and commercial offerings such as Madrix and some by major lighting manufactures.
the large 3 pin ones are also also termed appleton connector and used shipboard for as you say shore power and refrigeration units on containerized cargo
Reminds me of a DS38999 MIL STD connector with less pins. Mainly used in aircraft systems, very rugged, robust, made for applications where need for contact assurance is high. In my mind it seems like fairly trivial thing to be able to make them water resistant with some rubber gaskets - but takes away from the ruggedness I guess.
I can attest to powercons blowing out if unplugged under load -- I didn't do it (honest!) but this happened recently at work. It severely mangled the powercon and burned the distribution unit (already charred from prior idiocy) to the extent we had to render it unsafe and lock it out.
I've given myself a good shock on the stage connector pins a few years ago while replacing a 2k Fresnel fixture. Not long after the lamp exploded... Why did I ever leave the TV/ Theater business?
We used to have those giant rectangular connectors instead of the round multiocnnectors, back in our school’s gym. They’d hold 8 circuits, with 2x8 pins, and we’d have fanouts with flexes going to schuko, rather than ceeform, us being a Schuko country.
I work in the entertainment industry in Europe, for multiple line power distribution we only use harting cables, never socapex, the only socapex (and not socapex-18 but way way more pins) we use is just to distribute the audio channels to the mixing board from stage and the audio channels to the amplifiers, but never an amplified signal ,from there on you have most of the time something like Speacon looks like a Powercon and yes they are both Neutric they come in multi channel versions too.
And also socapex is dated, all the amplified stuff is left on stage, audio channels are through ethernet, and go back that way to amplifiers, the only multiple line power distribution these day are from dimmers to the lights with harting-16. And with moving heads you only need a powerline and a dmxline. Those lights that use a power line each are dissapearing, inteligent light is way more versatile and don't need as much stuff like a dimmer and harting/socapex
Interesting to me about the Socapex connector is that it has what would be called in military connectors of a similar style an "Arctic coupling nut." A coupling nut that can be operated by thickly-gloved hands. Such a style of coupling nut is slightly heavier, though, so it's only used on equipment which will be operated in such conditions.
Big Clive. I was able to"fix" a water distiller that burned out the on/off switch because of you. I used your logic found the problem and fixed it. Thanks big guy. I wish I was as trained and adept at electronic issues as you.
S Holder . You made a great start. It just takes time brother. Get in the trenches and you will learn more then you can imagine. Like you did. Don't be afraid to try. Just be careful. Cheers.
@@robertsmiczsmiczamplificat593 I am careful. I fear and respect electricity. I did a small circuit in our barn. A breaker box and 3 receptacles on 110V. I think I read the chapter in the book 4 times to make sure I didn't screw up.
But FYI, I am of the womanly persuasion so it's sister, not brother.
@@mistaowickkuh6249 I never work on anything"live". And after repair I am at a safe distance.
S Holder another good idea that sounds like showing off, but is actually for safety: Work with one hand behind your back. Not necessarily behind your back, but only one hand in the electrical stuff at a time. If you do make a mistake, and get a shock, you've only got one hand in circuit, and you're much less likely to jump through your heart.
Sooner or later, somebody's going to immerse their finger in that water or touch its spigot. "staying back after a repair" only works for a short while, unless you'd only be waiting for a guineapig.
This is so lovely. I live in the US, but I worked the Fringe for Gilded Ballon many years ago. Seeing 16a Ceeform sitting on a flight case while hearing a Scottish voice and pipes just warms my heart!
*Scottish voice
Did this fella just refer to our people as a drink? :D hehe
2 min. 45 sec. to coworker shenanigans. That's a new record!
I wonder how many times he's had to restart his videos because of coworker shenanigans!
Actually it's 2"40'. But close enough.
2"36' if you’re being a pedant...
You're
Nick Kirton another pedant. 2”45’ was as good a time frame as any was my point. Corrected just for you though ;-)
Really love these industry videos, Clive. Starting off as a theatre technician working in lots of small scale theatre. Really informative of what’s out there in the big scale.
I see impressive connectors like this at work every day. I'm at Mouser Electronics.
I was working in MTV Finland 1975-2001 and we had RCA TK-45 color cameras which had very thick camera cable having hundreds of pins. Quite often I had to repair those. Naturally the fault usually was in the center pins and I had to remove huge amount of pins before I could fix the problem.
That sounds like a challenge
I do like speakon and powercon connectors, they are quite satisfying to plug and unplug.
It's the grown-man's fidget spinner!
The new PowerCON TRUE1 connectors are even better! They have a nice Snap! when the terminals disconnect as part of the break-under-load capability.
They also don't unplug when you don't want them to :3
@@thavinator as a video tech I can agree lol i love the audible click and feel
Harting is a lego, you order housing, internals, contacts, accessories separately. You basically compile your own custom connector. You can have whatever in there, signal, power, data, fiber optics, pneumatics, coaxial, pretty much whatever you can think of. The trick is to keep track of what series connector parts you use, in what order they go together and what the actual part numbers are.
Although, it must be noted, putting pneumatics in a same connector with electricity is generally a bad idea, it sometimes happens that instead of air you get oil or water from somewhere upstream.
www.harting.com/sites/default/files/2017-11/Han-Pneumatik-Modul_Hint_0.jpg
Harting looks amazing!
Air? let's put water cooling through the same cable :>
Tube is a tube, you can put strawberry syrup through it for all it cares. It's just that in the unlikely event of a leak, an electrical connector is one of the worst places it could happen at.
Never thought to test the heat transfer values of strawberry syrup... I wonder if it's better then water for cooling... good idea!
Nostalgia! Very reminiscent of the stuff I used to work with when I did time on a sound & light crew in my old hometown. A part of my life that is rapidly slipping into the past. We used the Socapex connectors for both sound systems & lighting. Have spent many an hour soldering both multicore cables into those and taking out tails to either NL4 speakon or to mains plugs / sockets. We also had breakout boxes similar to yours but we didn't use the 16amp Ceeform, just the standard NZ "crowsfoot" 10amp outlet for connecting to individual lights. There was some Ceeform stuff, but the main 32 amp three phase connectors were the New Zealand made PDL-56 series, which are very waterproof, as they have a screw ring and gasket. And they needed to be at some of the shows & raves we did. When the three-phase got up to the next level of distro, 63 amp Ceeform connectors were common. Any more current than this and it was usually individual cables with Cam-Lock connectors.
These are connectors I have been considering setting up for my tools. My woodshop class in HS had similar connectors which were compatible with a wall jack if you flipped the retainer lock back out of the way. Each stationary tool and table had a 6-way bolted onto it somewhere to plug loose tools like palm sanders in. And my favorite feature regardless of cable tech, individual breaker switches on each port with status lights: flashing green in use, green for safe to use, yellow for fault and red for non-functional. Majority of the time faults were idiots tripping breakers and moving to a new port instead of just resetting the breaker.
Those are some pretty interesting connectors. The most we work with is the four prong turn and lock connectors for spider boxes and temporary power.
Very interesting look into one more job and it's tools! Thank you, Big Clive, you are a treasure!
CEE connectors are commonly used in datacenters to distribute 16/32A single phase and 16/32/65A three phase. And all construction work is done with the same CEE connectors (distribution boxes and cables). This makes CEE the most widely used standard in this part of Europe for almost anything (events, congresses, construction, datacenter, telco, etc). I haven't seen the old (pre CEE) connector in a while, guess it's phased out completely.
I'd love Neutrik' PowerCon due it's size and locking. Compared to IEC C13/C14 (servers/networking), which lacks that (as official standard, there are some clips on some hardware).
In datacenters Cat5(e) is used for RS485 and Ethernet (IP) to communicate with PDU's (power readout and on/off).
Harting is used in the entertainment industry, but shifts to (ethernet or DMX over) Cat5(e). Since controllers are cheaper then (a lot of) copper cable used with Harting.
Looks like more and more industries use the same standards (where possible).
Yeah, I recognise it from server cabinet power cables
It's worth keeping an ion!
Also, the 4-pin Hartings run under "Han 3A" and are in Harting's active portfolio. Cheers!
Ooh, that pun.
Superb video Clive! Please, please, please some more! Thank you!
Dude I love these kind of job videos explaining specific things.
Holy this is amazing. I didn't know you were a lighting tech. I would love to see you rip in to some HMI ballasts and take apart some head cables.
I love Neutrik connectors.
With the right amount of lube they are all good.
STX series Neutrik speakON are a whole different level, it's insane.
Agreed, the plastic ones are a bit crap but the metal STX ones are great. Quite waterproof as well.
Never not satisfying!
I work in a Grip and Electric rental house and our Neutriks fucking come back broken all the time. They still work technically but the locking slide comes off easily then the small spring is often lost.
Back when I was doing tech in school, the high school theatre used NEMA L5-20 and the middle school used stage pin *shudders*. When ever equipment moved from one space to the other (somewhat often), we'd either end up lugging a stack of adapters everywhere or spend a couple hours re-terminating everything.
in theatres in the US, we tend to use Stage Pin for lights like parcans, and then dmx+powercon for any type of intelligent light
We use Ceeform connectors for our network stacks too, each device has a kettle lead, but they all meet in a box, out of which comes a single ceeform plug into the wall :-).
I don't know what I love more. this guys voice or the bagpipes in the background
As a vfx supp I always wanted to know how they connect stuff on set. Thanks for this one. Also, nice to know a bit about your real work.
Single phase CEE is not used in German entertainment industry. Socapex is rarely used, we use Harting Han 16
That's why it's widely called caravan plug :-P
Yes, regarding CEE, I've seen it before, but it's rather rare.
Socapex comes up not too rarely as multicore connector for as many as 48 pins. Harting tends to be preferred for power applications, rather than signal.
Same in the Netherlands altough some theaters use only CEE
Some appliances in the big kitchen of the local hostel use the CEE thing or at least something very similar looking.
DA666 possibly red ones? CEEform is standard in NL and DE for three phase connections, and then it’s red. The blue single-phase 230V type is basically just caravans, and the occasional industrial application, and yellow which is for single phase 110V is something I’ve never actually seen in person.
Bagpiiiiiiipes!
Even better, distant bagpipes.
Omf... I'm not the only one who heard 'em.
I though perhaps Clive was gassy.
Whenever I watch any of Clive’s videos I hear bagpipes in the background.
Dudelsack
Thought I'd know all of this already but clicked through anyway - never seen that square four pin thing in my life! Thanks Clive!
Hey I was the lighting tech who took the first ever Socapex cabled rig out on the road! Peter Straker's only tour as a "pop star" paid for by his then partner Freddie Mercury in November / December 1978! This was a Showlites innovation and that first rig ran 8 circuits per connector with 3 common earths and 10' ( 3M ) IWBs ! The first rig had 6 par64 and 2 Patt 764 profiles on each bar. These were really unwieldy and not a realistic one man lift! we learned on that tour that we should go with 6 lamp 8' bars which became standard thereafter and we re-wired the socapex distributions accordingly! Please contact me directly if you want more history from those days
Sock connectors! I work part time as a stage hand with 3 theaters one is broadway and the other two are smaller and an old school auditorium in Nashville Tennessee nice to see you show the world these things
I have just purchased 4 of those soccapex to 16amp cee truss distribution boxes. Brilliant. Saves on cable runs. Indoor events only
Love the bagpipes in the background. Thanks for the video updates while you're working. =]
Thanks for showing the equipment, nice to hear the history as well 👍
Thanks for sharing 😀👍
Never thought I'd ever feel nostalgic about lighting rigs. Trust the big guy to prove me wrong.
I absolutely loved those bagpipes in the beginning. Need more bagpipes.
Here in the US, I rarely see CeeForm connectors used for power, though it is still used to a degree. In the US, I mostly see Cam-Lok connectors used for big items (such as 24KW "Daylight" fresnels) and for lower current items, I see Hubbell Twist Lock used
SpaceMountainLarry we use powerlok in the UK, because they're harder to shove fingers inside of
I worked in the industry I personally love that your teaching about this. I even did an Adelle and Ozzy concert on Ozzy I was basically his personal Butler lol awesome job
It makes so much sense to find out you work for PRG. I worked for a major live audio provider in Aus. What you call a Harting in Australia is usually called a Weiland and is mostly only used for chain motors. I started an electrical apprenticeship here in Aus and asked the electricians if they had heard of CeeForm or powercon and they looked at me as if was taking jibberish. The beautiful thing about powercon is that it's good for 20A at 240v and it's the same size as a 10A IEC. I sometimes miss working on gigs but I don't miss hauling 100m of powerlock though.
"Entertainment industry connectors" or "agents" as we call them.
Wow I’ve been following your channel for so long now and never realized you worked in the same industry. Really cool stuff. Definitely a bigger fan of the True1 connector over power con especially since the connectors can now plug into each other if you need to extend further. Not sure if you’ve heard about the new connectors being used on tour that still have the 6 circuits but also carry data in the center few pins and the best part is it’s quarter turn collar lock so no more gummed up threads and wiggle-turn-wiggle-turn of Socapex
Apparently D54 was almost exclusive to the UK, but it looks somewhat similar to LMX/MPX which was mostly (AFAIK) used on small point-of-load dimmer packs, but with different voltage levels. Here in the US prior to DMX we had AMX192, which was a similar serial/analog scheme that used an interesting combo of an analog voltage level signal with an RS485 clock on a 4-pin XLR.
Calling in from another part of the entertainment industry/live events. Hopefully will bump into you one day on site.
Thanks for the entertaining videos
😂 the socapex brings back some memories for me, it looks a lot like a stage pin multi cable, up until last year the small high school black box theater I’ve been working in had used stage pin as the main lighting power connectors, so we had 2 stage pin multi cable panels on each side of the stage, each with 8 connections, then a multi cable would run to a certain spot in the grid, and it would connect to a fanout that had 8 stage pin connectors on it to connect lights too, it’s an older ETC system, and all the dimmers were in a cabinet back stage where we had 48 dimmers each controlling 2 channels which gave us a total of 96 750watt halogen channels. Those multi cables were a pain in the butt, they were about and inch thick, and they weighed a ton. Now we’ve completely converted to LED pars and spots, that use powerCon for power and DMX for data transmission.
Sadly here in the USofA many manufacturers of DMX gear are using 3 pin XLRs. Apparently this is supposed to be for convenience, grab any cable with XLR and it works for audio or lighting. Or perhaps because 3 pins are cheaper than 5. But of course this muddles things up for some users. It's certainly easier to identify cables depending on the connector.
@KeeDx3 I hear you.
It's not really a Chinese thing. HighEnd, Martin, Robe all used 3 pin.
It would be nice for someone to film you whilst making a video so we see some behind the making off a video. And the shenanigans that go with it!
Didn't know you had videos with the topics of event (and entertainment) industry, that's great.
Interesting to see you working in the entertainment industry. I was recently introduced to your channel by AVE, and have watched a bunch of videos but never made the connection. I have been in the industry in the US for the last 15 or so years, although I'm more an office rat these days doing design & engineering. In the US we see Socapex quite a bit, along with Powercon being common more recently, but twist lock connectors (NEMA L5-20,L6-20,L14-30,L21-30 being common at least in our inventory) as well as 20A stage pin for dimmed circuits. For high amperage (feeder) in the US it is almost exclusively Cam-Lock 400A single conductor connectors from what I've seen.
Back in the mid 1970s, I had to relocate a hard wired analogue dimmer control panel to install it into a 20 foot console we built. This was in the days before digital control circuitry. At that time, the US electrical code required we use 12 gauge wiring, even though the panel only used 24 volts. I think there were about 100 wires involved. We had to buy 6 inch greenfield flexible conduit to hold them all.
Cowboy Frank's Personal Videos Copper gauge is determined by current, not voltage. Voltage determines the gauge of the isolation plastic/rubber.
I am aware of that. I should have been more specific. The only current feed component on the dimmer board were small 1000 ohm variable coil wound liner resistors. The issue was the code hadn't caught up with the technology of that time. In this case the amperage running through those 12 gauge wires was only about 200 ma which fed the electronics (tracs and control circuitry) in the dimmer panel back stage. At that time, electronic dimmers had only been around a few years. Just 7 years earlier, my high school which was brand new was still using variable transformers.
Love the background music! You're an awesome chap.
very interesting Clive, i love the snippets of your work life!
Never did I think I'd be so interested in power cables to the point I watch a 9min video on them... Dear lord
Aaaah I miss my theatre days ;-) I was an audio engineer (just a sound-guy) ;-)
Yep - back in my college days I was M.E. for a couple shows, but my passion always was (and is) audio. I haven't done theatre in years, but I love it when you're at work and talking about current industry things, as I've been out of the loop for a bit too long at this point. ;-)
Love your channel Clive :-D
that blue connector you call ceeform is used on basically all camping grounds and caravans, I had no Idea they were used by the entertainment industry too. Makes sense, though, since you don't have to deal with the annoying different plug types all over Europe that way.
tommihommi1 - The yellow type is very common on worksites where 110V power is used.
@@Mark1024MAK not really a thing over here, we use 230V single-phase and 400V three-phase pretty much exclusively.
tommihommi1 - I was referring to the usage in the U.K. That is on construction and building sites, temporary engineering worksites and other temporary supply systems (e.g. temporary site / utility / public lighting). The 110V is supplied via 240V to 110V isolation transformers. And the secondary supplying the 110 is centre tapped to earth (ground). So the maximum voltage between earth/ground and either conductor is 55V AC.
If there's a power tool available in the U.K., there will be a version rated at 110V and supplied with a yellow CEEform plug... (including radios to keep the workers happy :-) ).
@@Mark1024MAK that seems like a whole lot of effort for very little gain. Everyone else in europe just uses the standard stuff everywhere. Especially since you're gonna want beefy devices with lots of powah on building sites, so the higher voltage and option for 400V three phase for the big guns kinda helps a lot.
Mark 1024MAK Spot on mate...the three types are similar but not actually interchangeable. Intentionally so for safety reasons and to keep Red 3 phase, Blue 240 v and Yellow 110v from being connected. The UK safety people won't allow mains tools on a building site which aren't 110v, lots of builders like battery tools for this reason. There is no way 3 phase would be allowed in what is often a wet environment as its lethal.
A great insight into the world of chunky-robust
I like the multipin connector on the side of the connector box, reminds me of the military connectors i used to solder wires to, in a factory :-).
Locating notch and ring, really nice design, reliable.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing, plus those connectors look super cool.
Up at the Edinburgh Festival again. Now that's a great job.
Intresting seeing the different uses for some familiar connections, the 16 amp blue 'commando' plug is pretty standard (caravan sites) also used in industry, we used them in my last job, (plastic injection moulding factory) for connecting auxiliary equipment to moulding machines, also used the 4 pin Harting plugs and the rectangular version of the 19 pin plug for connecting hot runner heating controllers to mould tools and for data interconnections for pick & place robots.
Also used the red 32amp 3 phase commando type plugs on 9Kw mould tool water heaters.
In Estonia in stage industry we are using: shuco, 16A 3phase CEE, 32 3phase CEE, 63A 3phase CEE, 125A 3phase CEE, power lock for 400A and for bigger loads cable luggs and big cables :D . For multi core we are using socapex, it is also used for direct control hoists.
Great video BC. I love this stuff. I work in Television. I have been an Engineer traveling in TV since 1985. I am surprised that (unfortunately) all the cheap Chinese consumer DMX stuff is all using standard 3 pin xlr connectors, which is pretty lame when all the audio is using 3 pin xlr. Like you said in pro lighting it's pretty much 5 pin Xlr cables for dmx signals. I should have thought of this and done some show an tell on American television. Pretty much standard stuff, but would have been fun to kill some time. I never had time to make content, but I love watching yours. Great stuff. Thank you. Cheers.
Robert Smicz thing is though, DMx protocol on a 3 pin XLR running over microphone cable is horribly out of spec and not entirely reliable, but it does *work*. And usually well enough - at the cable lengths involved - for the sort of people that buy cheap Chinese dmx gear.
Jasper Janssen. exactly sir, that's why I'm so surprised the consumer dmx stuff uses shielded xlr cable. We use mostly 4 pair twisted pair telco cable (doubled up pairs) terminated with xlr 5 pin connectors. I believe the dmx data is EIA 485 differential data and runs very long distance on twisted pair. Using standard Audio 3 pin xlr cable does not work very far. Yes it works for garage bands small lighting. The cheap Chinese cables are using 3 pin xlr connectors, but are not using shielded wire just cheap 3 conductor cable.
Ive had over 50m runs on mic cable. Never had a problem. Yep, it's not best practice, yep all runs should be terminated. But, when the show has to go up, if it works it works.
Dear Clive, Im enjoying the tour of yer job, interesting stuff. Hope youre keeping well, all the best kieron
In North America we tend to use twist lock instead of Cee form (we call it pin and sleeve) we have 15/20 amp versions for both 120v and 240v. TRue1 seems to be becoming a standard here.
In data centers, we used twist lock up to 30A. After that, is was typically pin and sleeve or CS because there isn't a NEMA standard twist locked rated at 40A and 50A (last time I checked). NEC prefers you to hardwire I guess. That's not practical in a data center though.
Oddly enough, the True1 seems to be a solution looking for a problem. There are NEMA configuration 50 amp twist-lock plugs. They aren't specifically NEMA, but they use the exact same configuration - and since Hubbell invented the plugs, they can darn well determine the 50 amp plug and receptacle :) (They list them as "NEMA configuration", using the L16-30 designation)
IT style twistlock (Hubbel) plugs are so flimsy feeling. I hate those things. I'm not sure how often they develop loose connections, but it seems like it ought to be a common problem - at least if they are subjected to more than a few mating cycles.
I use SpeakOn connectors when I moonlight as a sound guy - they're fantastic. I would love to see PowerCon connectors replace NEMA twist-locks.
Great information. I'd be interested in more coverage of the equipment and tech behind the scenes in the entertainment industry.
I love how comfortable you are recording a video with people in the room watching you, most people are like, holy shit other people! And then run away and get all shy, like how people stop talking to eachother when you walk past them
the 4 pin Harting is just called HAN4. A colleague almost got electrocuted when she picked one up from the ground, and the insulation on the cable was broken so the Metalcasing was live at 230V
My seven years in theatre was primarily indoors, but we always used three prong twist lock connectors. Fast to swap, impossible to get in the wrong direction, and you can just about swing from them before they release.
Edit - I've used a lot of XLR cables as well. Mostly audio, including connecting an ANCIENT stereo microphone - one of the ones that looks like a huge hammer head from the 50's. (still have it).
I was already familiar with XLR, that's it... thanks for teaching me :)
We once got a dmx controller back from a customer who thought it was a great idea to use XLR for both DMX and 230V in the same installation. Needless to say, when we opened it up we found the varistor across the DMX output had completely disappeared, leaving only a scorch mark in its place.
Actually, now that I think of it the vaporized varistor may have been the customer who decided to use 5-pin XLR instead of 4-pin XLR for 48V scrollers (since the convenience of using an easy-to-find connector obviously outweighs the risk of connecting things that really should not be connected).
Ah yes. This is how I learned how to solder. I’ve made many speakon, trs, xlr, neutrix and every other connector you could think of way back in the day. I used to work for a company called Quality Sound and Video. Also used to setup for many large concerts.
Quality Sound and Video used to be a major player in the Outside Broadcast and Location Film industry. Your bunch did the sound for a location filmed at St Bartholomew the Great church in London - and they were parked right outside the lab where I worked at that time (North East Thames Radioimmunoassay Laboratory - better known as NETRIA)! I think the vans were painted maroon (though I'm not so certain of that!)
I like the bagpipe music, in the back ;)
those ceeform connectors are also often used on caravan trailers for feeding power in, at least over here
I love little control boxes like that. I have a multitude in my shop, having been made over the years for various purposes... they have a certain something that most commercial offerings lack.
Where I've worked with fairgrounds, I've seen the 4 pin connectors used for 2 channel festoon type lighting on certain rides
I was talking to some american friends about their heavy current connectors and thus learnt about 'camlock' connectors... I was very scared..
Inconsistent colours, exposed connectors, nothing to stop you connecting live to earth..
Then I looked up powerlock looks SO much safer! And after a short amount of googling, it seems that camlock is simply outlawed in the EU due to being 'windowmaker' class plugs. :)
Look forward to seeing the video about them in use.
The Harting Han connectors also go by the name "washdown connector" (due to their gasketed construction) here in North America , when you're buying them from other suspects like McMaster-Carr or Automation Direct.
Love seeing a fellow lampie share our world!
Had no idea you were in the entertainment industry. Shout out to a fellow tech!
Make more videos at your work please!
Those large connectors are similar in aviation to the so called "cannon" plugs. They have removable contacts and are numbered in a spiral. Very cool.
That was really interesting Clive. Thanks.
I remember some years ago running a multicolor 10v cable down a pipe to the desk, the shell had to be removed and then it would drop down it with no problem :)
I came in one day during the install to find that for some reason the boss had cut the whole plug assembly off due to not being able to get it back up the pipe for some reason. It cost him a full plug assembly as the pins were crimped and not re usable, all he had to do was to take the shell off !
We use the three pin connectors in Russia as receptacles for high energy single phase loads. We use the powerconn in end server and networking gear
we call harting connectors wieland connectors in australia, although i've never seen a 4 pin one, mostly just 16 pins and up
The Harting is a HAN 3A-STI. Very common in automotive. In automotive you have either Harting or round connectors (M8, M12, etc)
The great thing about standards is there are so many to choose from!
PRG Event Hire. Spoke to them a while ago, nice people. I work within the event industry so I see their flight cases quite often.
The audio world also uses 5 pin XLR. Very rarely for stereo audio. The most common case I've seen so far is for tube microphones actually. 2 for signal, 1 for ground and I guess 2 for the 240V phantom power from the power supply.
When you get into multi universe DMX, I am surprised you didn't cover DMX over Ethernet and the Cat 5 jacks and plugs inside XLR shells called ethercon connectors. Of the two most popular standards Artnet and E1.31 or streaming ACN, I prefer streaming ACN. It can use traditional network switches for low cost and high reliability distribution. Many lighting desks have either Artnet or E1.31 built in for multi universe shows. An example is the Leviton Piccolo series consoles supporting Artnet on Ethernet.
With more DMX and intelligent fixtures with the transition to LED over incandescent fixtures, the scoapex connector is falling from use very rapidly. DMX over Ethernet to each truss is becoming more common as reconfigurations are very simple. Plug in power and network connection and the install is done except setting the universe and channels used by the fixtures on the bar..
Have you started using DMX over networking yet? With a small number of universes, a laptop and a wireless router makes for a great traveling show setup. Router is on stage and the laptop now only requires a power connection to run a show cue list of scenes. I typically for a small show run between 1 and 3 universes over ACN streaming E1.31 ethernet. For larger shows where wireless network connections may be an issue, and more universes need supported, a Shielded CAT 5 cable is used for the link.
If you know where to look, there is some very affordable ACN and ArtNet gear available. Some software is low cost or free. For one universe of ArtNet Freestyler is dated but works well. For multi universe Streaming ACN, QlightsPlus works very well for many show applications. Both of these programs are free. There are more complex and commercial offerings such as Madrix and some by major lighting manufactures.
In the US, we use stage pin as a means to connect lights to the mult bundles.
the large 3 pin ones are also also termed appleton connector and used shipboard for as you say shore power and refrigeration units on containerized cargo
Reminds me of a DS38999 MIL STD connector with less pins. Mainly used in aircraft systems, very rugged, robust, made for applications where need for contact assurance is high. In my mind it seems like fairly trivial thing to be able to make them water resistant with some rubber gaskets - but takes away from the ruggedness I guess.
Work in IT and never hear the IEC 60309 connectors called CeeForm. We always call them commando plug/socket.
That's MK's name for their version.
I can attest to powercons blowing out if unplugged under load -- I didn't do it (honest!) but this happened recently at work. It severely mangled the powercon and burned the distribution unit (already charred from prior idiocy) to the extent we had to render it unsafe and lock it out.
It's a standard replacement component in the industry. Once one's gone bang, both the plug and socket are changed.
yay bagpipes in the background.... (seriously, I really miss them!)
I really enjoy these videos backstage (literally) ^^
Big Clive, well connected in the entertainment industry
I've given myself a good shock on the stage connector pins a few years ago while replacing a 2k Fresnel fixture. Not long after the lamp exploded... Why did I ever leave the TV/ Theater business?
We used to have those giant rectangular connectors instead of the round multiocnnectors, back in our school’s gym. They’d hold 8 circuits, with 2x8 pins, and we’d have fanouts with flexes going to schuko, rather than ceeform, us being a Schuko country.
Finally a break from orange lunatics, Star Wars, and weird science..
4:34 Haha I see what you did there. you are talking about power and said "it is worth keeping an ion"
I work in the entertainment industry in Europe, for multiple line power distribution we only use harting cables, never socapex, the only socapex (and not socapex-18 but way way more pins) we use is just to distribute the audio channels to the mixing board from stage and the audio channels to the amplifiers, but never an amplified signal ,from there on you have most of the time something like Speacon looks like a Powercon and yes they are both Neutric they come in multi channel versions too.
And also socapex is dated, all the amplified stuff is left on stage, audio channels are through ethernet, and go back that way to amplifiers, the only multiple line power distribution these day are from dimmers to the lights with harting-16. And with moving heads you only need a powerline and a dmxline. Those lights that use a power line each are dissapearing, inteligent light is way more versatile and don't need as much stuff like a dimmer and harting/socapex
Interesting to me about the Socapex connector is that it has what would be called in military connectors of a similar style an "Arctic coupling nut." A coupling nut that can be operated by thickly-gloved hands. Such a style of coupling nut is slightly heavier, though, so it's only used on equipment which will be operated in such conditions.
8:35 mmmmmm. I want to work there. Clive is amazing. His pals at work are too