I recently sent in 3 cards to be crossed over from SGC 10’s to PSA 10’s without cracking them just a straight crossover with min grade set at 10 & gladly they all came back as PSA 10’s!
Nice. We can see that going either way, and they charge a little more for that service? We can see competition between the companies as far as “ who is the better grader”- or stricter- or consistent- or…., so if they see another company graded it a certain way, they may grade it differently. Or, they may think the company has a good reputation and grades consistently, lets just look it over quickly and go with the same grade.
I really like Csg especially with the new label. I do like Sgc for vintage also. These two companies are very consistent with grading. When I use Psa I get some serious headscratchers.
Prices are stabilizing because the collecting hype has faded along with stimulus checks and lockdowns. Sorry but I'm glad the hype is subsiding. The prices were getting crazy high. 🤪 collect on my peeps!!!!
Personally, I like CSG and SGC the most. Though as anybody who has been around more than a year or so, the condition differential between 9's, 9.5's and 10's is genrally nothing but fugazzi. It's fairydust. Thanks for taking the time to create this content. I enjoyed it!
As a SGC user and a seller myself, I appreciate you taking one for the team and trying the resub... it goes to show that there is a potential market for resubbing SGC 9.5s to PSA to try and upgrade them to 10s.. I would definitely not touch SGC 10s for any reason because you will only be setting yourself up for the disappointment as you experienced. Very cool video guys.. enjoyed it..
Do you only use SGC? From what I have seen they appear to be #2 in resale value. And I have hears there turn around times are incredible at the time. I am not a huge fan of the “ tuxedo”, but it does look good on some cards.
@@nothingbutcardboard Sgc is definitely becoming the #2 choice for resale imo. Their turn times are in DAYS not weeks. Only issue they have is their pricing. At $30 they are the highest priced option now but hoping they drop the price. I do sub thru bulk submitter at $23 per card so definitely helps.
It’s a shame bgs has fallen off a cliff. I still buy bgs 9.5’s because I believe their grading standards are excellent. I like sgc also, very fast and fair.
Great video gentlemen. I think the problem started when they introduced the 10 grade. The difference between a 9 and 10 is very small. That would eliminate all the controversy. Unfortunately, it’s too late now of course.
Great video guys! Man I love the idea of grading with PSA but with over 100 different grader’s spending 20 seconds to grade cards just feels like luck to get a 10.
Yeah, the pretty much sums up most people’s feeling towards PSA. They are pumping cards out extremely quickly, so it’s difficult to trust they are getting the attention each card deserves. BUT PSA is where the resale is at, so it’s a double edged sword.
This is pretty spot on. There's little to no difference in my PSA 9's vs. 10's... even the 8's had no visible flaws. If PSA is going to keep commanding that much of a premium; people will keep flooding them with cards.
I agree and that's why I haven't submitted any card to get slabbed in the last year. It's been killing me but methinks if I wait prices will come down as market and hype goes with the economy.
@Robert Hudson that’s a great question. It has to do with reputation and how long each company has been grading cards. PSA has been around for a long time, but it will probably take a lot of people getting upset at PSA and refusing to use them before you’ll start to see other companies start to gain some traction.
CSG SLABS LOOK 10X BETTER AND MORE CLEAR. NO WAY IN THE WORLD IMA CRACK A CSG SLAB AND PUT IN A PSA FOGGY PRESCRIPTION BOTTLE THAT MOVES AND NOT STABLE...ONLY FOR RESALE NOT PERSONALLY. THE WAY I SEE IT NEXT 5 YRS ITS GOING TO SWITCH ALL AROUND... PSA IS HYPE BEAST CSG IS QUALITY
This is why psa holds more weight for modern. If your using sgc for vintage they do fine but modern cards in other companies holders don’t typically fetch a major premium outside of rare cards.
Getting soooo close to 1k, guys, keep it up! In your experience, do you think PSA has stricter grading on corners and edges (in comparison to CSG)? Wasn’t sure if you were able to identify a common theme or not. Were the SGC 9.5s that went to a PSA 10 due to back of card centering you think? (Or maybe it was, as John mentioned, the previous grader went on break 😂). The SGC 9.5 to an 8 is just crazy 🤯. I say you crack those PSA 8s and resubmit to PSA…maybe a future video?! Thanks for sharing your experience, fellas!
If we only knew. We do feel that the cards that go from SGC 9.5 to a PSA 10 is because of the back of the card. And not really sure about how PSA handles grading corners and edges. We do feel PSA is a little more Lenient on dimples and print lines.
That was good stuff to see especially for those of us where cracking slabs is a big part of our business. I've been hearing CSG is the strictest, so this vid def helped. Just my opinion and from my experience, but the reason for all the PSA 9s is that PSA is extremely tight with giving paper cards 10s. I noticed this when I 1st started grading back in late 2020 when all my Donruss were coming back 9s even tho they clearly looked like 💎s. Reason cracked paper cards are hard to grade up is because you cannot clean / "fix" paper cards like you can chrome/prizms. A bent corner will always be bent and any surface marks will always be there but w/the chrome n prizm cards you can rub off marks & sharpen corners. Overall, though, I feel you still did pretty good. And I definitely believe PSA is by far the hardest/strictest grading company, atleast since Turner & Co. took over. I have cracked over 100 cards to send off to PSA in 2022 and it seemed like the original grading companies gave grades they didn't deserve to the majority of the cards, which told me these companies were clearly much more lenient. I would find so many noticable things on the cards w/the naked eye but ESPECIALLY when under our microscope. If you really wanna step up your grading game & get many more 💎s, I HIGHLY suggest getting one for yourselves; Tomlov Digital Microscopes. These 🔬come w/ up to 1500x magnification so you truly see EVERYTHING on a card which means you know what needs to be cleaned/fixed if possible, but just as important you can weed out the cards that shouldn't be sent in the 1st place which = more $ being saved. Keep up the good work and great content!
@@pete5691 haha not even close, that's what's so great about 🔬s and why I get like 97% of our pregrades correct. You can see everything & by grading enough you learn to know what to look for & what grades most likely will be based on what you see.
@@nothingbutcardboard Yah a jewler's loops good for traveling for sure, altho I bring my scope when setting up at shows because ppl love to come up & have me look at their cards for them. It definitely brings a crowd too because not something you ever see really. I wanna look into those fancy new handheld things you see in videos sometimes for when I am on the other side of the table.
@@GemRippers Oh ok. Definitely a scientific approach to it. PSA is toughest grader? How do you rate the others? I’ve started to buy a lot of bgs 9.5’s. I just feel like I trust their grading despite how much they’ve slipped down in terms of volume.
It has worked out for us real well in the past too. We have a few other cracking videos, this was the first one where we had multiple slabs downgraded though.
This was a great video. Cracking slabs, theres always the chance for damage or a finger print, or something that wasn't there before. But if your confident in your skills getting them out, then this just shows me how much of a crap shoot the whole process is. Most of the time it's just luck of the draw. Keep up the good vids guys.
Thanks for the comment! Up to this point we were 10 for 10 on crossing over to gem mint. So we are fairly confident we didn’t damage the cards when we cracked them. But you’re right, it can be a bit of a crap shoot. There is also the possibility of CSG damaging the cards while encapsulating them. The more a card is handled, the greater the risk. We have some more cracking videos in the pipeline, so fingers crossed!
I guess you have to expect that with the cracking and the card getting handled again that a couple cards would take a hit. I can’t believe the price difference between a PSA and CSG 10.
Yeah, paper cards tend to be a little more prone to handling damage than an optic type stock card. We had been having pretty good luck crossing over up until this video. Got some more in the pipeline, so it will be interesting to see how those do. The price difference between CSG and PSA is crazy!
We have felt the same way for awhile now, and hopefully it comes to pass. We love how there slabs feel and look, Definitely the most clear slab on the market- hopefully with time the re-sale value comes.
great video!! this speaks directly to going *miles* above & beyond to find, and grade, only the mintyest of cards! however, tbh, it doesn't say much about PSA. sadly, your crossovers weren't anywhere near Gem - and that's to my blind naked eye (though that US1 Shohei looked sweet). now, it's not a knock on you, but it's most certainly a knock on CSG and their scale (there's a reason their prices are trash) 😔 also, per the comment/s, there's most definitely rhyme, and reason, that went into why they received the grades they did (it's not a crapshoot). which is the perfect segue to hopefully helping out the industry by saying everyone should own a Centering Tool/Omnigrid (all 8 non-Gem were OC), a 20x LED loupe/magnifying glass & possibly a USB camera for the edges, just to get a really good look (you'd be amazed). also, scan your cards in the Card Saver prior to packaging, b/c, like you thought (though, doubtful w/ the Luka) damage does occur at the grading companies. please, spread the word!! 😊 new subscriber - thanks for the content 🙇♂️ 🤙
This was a recommended channel, 1 year after your upload. This is assuming CSG is using similar grading standards to SGC and PSA? Because it's not the case. They still follow the BGS grading scale, they just don't list the subgrades because eliminating them helped streamline their processing to get it door to door in days/weeks rather than months. When they switched to their gen2 labels, they also reduced their strictness on how they graded their surface.
From my experience grading, there is absolutely no difference between a 9 and 10 for 90% of the cards. I think they flip coins when they grade to decide. The premiums people pay for Gem Mint is insane. If you resubbed the PSA 10's back to PSA, 50% would become a PSA 9.
Ouch... you never know. Ive had several cross over from BGS to PSA lately though and get a bump up in grades. And cracked some from PSA and sent back for better grades as well. Its all a s*it show...
Not sure if I feel like selling cards anymore graded till all these graders are equal. Would be so nice if someone could force these graders into 1 singular system of grading so the playing fields are equal when selling.
Prob never happen. I would like to see them closer in resale and # of cards graded. Everyone has a different opinion or feeling on there favorite. Coke or Pepsi Ford or Chevy McDonalds or Burger King
Yes, we have had a few CSG 9.5’s go to 10s. Haven’t tried BGS yet. But we have had the most success with SGC 9.5s going to PSA 10. We are in the process of testing green label CSG 9s and HGA 9s. Those videos are dropping in a few weeks
@@nothingbutcardboard they're moving in on Modern too I'm sending them my stuff just because I want them to take the industry over PSA is just trash at this point and they manipulate the market I don't care what anybody says
Did you watch the end of the video when we revealed the breakdown of profits? John made $200 more than he would have if he left them in the CSG slabs: and part of it was an experiment. Half of the cards are long term holds, so the values should rise when the market picks back up. And the flip side is, as CSG get more “ credibility” there slab prices should go up in value as well.
Psa has the most cards sent in. In another word, they control the graded card market. Sometimes They Just intend to give you 9s to balance the card market. If there is a card with 100 pop 10s, 50 pop 9s, bigger chance they g8ve you a 9 to balance the pop.
There are a few reasons. First off, PSA is going to charge you whether they crack it or not, just for looking at it. They also are going to charge extra if they do crack it and cross it over (I believe it is ~$50 per card, but that might have also changed). Second, I would rather have a PSA 9 than a CSG 10. Much easier to move and you’re really not losing much value. You’ll end up saving a ton of money sending it in a bulk rate submission, especially if they are low dollar cards (which most CSG slabbed cards are). Hope this helps.
CSG is growing. PSA is losing market share value each day. If your reselling right away then PSA is the way. Over long time those CSG slabs will gain value but depends on everyone’s strategy.
Yes, it was nerve racking cracking brand new slabs and paying to get graded again. Not sure what happened to the Josh Allen and Luka slabs, those would have helped out in the profits if they had gemmed out.
No grading company is perfect, but ouch! Either PSA grades inconsistently, CSG just handing out 10’s or both! I was rooting for you guys, but man, that was a lot of money to spend on those specific cards. CSG has nice slabs, I don’t know why their re-sell values are so low! People just don’t care, they love psa!! 🤦🏽
This is why graders notes are needed. What was wrong with the first card? Look at the Lebrons-one 9.5 gets an 8 one 9.5 gets a 10. It almost makes you not take grading seriously.
It is hard to take is seriously, but we just have to remember the “ human part” of grading. If the same card went to a handful of different graders in the same facility there is a good chance that card gets a few different grades.
@@nothingbutcardboard Just look the cards over, and if you don't see a reason for the grade, then just crack and resubmit. I have seen 8's come back as 10's. Sometimes they just make mistakes; it's just too bad that you have to pay for it.
PSA is trash. With their shady practices it's crazy how they are the leaders in grading. So many trimmed cards allowed as long as it's their people. PSA 10s reserved for their top submitters on big cards.
PSA wants to controll the number of 10;s a card will have to keep the value up so when they get close to the number they down grade the card so the value of the 10 stays higher
Thing is a human grades cards, a different person may grade different and I hate that! Their may have to be a computer that grades cards that makes it all equal??
Some use an AI, to help with grading- but they want a human to be involved. We agree with you, wish there was a way to make it more equal. It is like an umpire in a baseball game- different guys call it a little different, but should all be consistent. I think I would rather have that than a robot back there calling balls and strikes, but that is probably coming. And if they have a question or problem, they can ask another ref his opinion or what he saw. Maybe more than 1 person should look at eat card along with an AI, and then average the grades.?
I’d like to think they would give them all 10s if they truly deserved it. But I’d be lying if I said we didn’t strategically place cards throughout the order to “ease” them into our better cards haha.
did you add shipping (to CSG and to PSA) and any upcharges (profit sharing) to the price of getting them graded so it wasn't truely$18 per card... this video shows PSA doesn't know what that are doing over there, just making up grades. Glad I will never ever use them again.
Yeah we added shipping charges. CSG came out to $12.07 and PSA came out to $19.48. So the values at the end are accurate. We were pretty frustrated with PSA last year. Had multiple lots with them that took over a year to get back. If you are collecting for PC, we like CSG, but for resale PSA takes the cake.
Hopefully that changes because there isn't anything good about PSA. Bad grading, horrible slabs/labels, overpriced, and the #1reason I don't use them is the upcharges or as I call it profit sharing. TAG is the one I am trying. I like free shipping and supplies.
@@scottparks362 cheaper? How much cheaper can you go. They give you free shipping and shipping supplies. It's not the 90s anymore people, also companies need to make money and a little profit to stay in business. TAG isn't ripping you off like PSA.
population control is a major problem I sent 10 vlad jr topps chrome refractor rookies in to PSA got 1 ten 3 nines 3 eights 2 sevens and 1 six they were all beautiful cards seriously 8's,7's and 6's for pristine ultra modern they are a joke
Lol- those are pretty much the only LBJ RCs I can afford. I prob had $25 into each card- including grading fees. They will prob go For $100+ when I finally sell them.
The more you handle a card the more likely you will mess up the card. cracking a card is a bad idea generally. all of these companies have huge earnings about doing it. based on the fact that some went up in grading....there is no difference in the grading. my of the graders bounce around companies anyway
Yes we agree with you, the more you handle a cars the more likely to damage it. But not all grading companies are the same and especially the resale value of a card- from company to company. And I disagree with you that “ they all grade the same”, we have seen that even all the graders in 1 company do not grade the same. I wish I could send a card to any company, lets just say SGC- and if 5 different graders grade it, it would get the same grade every time: but, with the human element in grading, this is usually not the case.
PSA is completely random and a horrible company. CSG you can find deals right now but they are the standard in comics and coins and in the long run the resale value will catch up for sports cards. They already are really good for gaming cards.
We are hoping CSGs values catch up To PSA also. We have used them several times, we love the slabs- thank God they changed to color of the label, and they have great customer service.
now you don't have to waste time cracking slabs and potentially ruining your card, they offer a crossover service and they evaluate the card in the slab and only crack it and reslab if it meets the grade you want.
You can do that, but it’s more expensive (I believe $50 a slab) and I really doubt they would take a CSG/SGC 9.5 and raise it to a 10. But yes, that service is available. It would be interesting to see how consistently 10s cross over to a 10.
@@nothingbutcardboard No TPG has ANY BUSINESS INCENTIVE to every give you a better grade. they get your $ upfront, you paid to ship it, they SAVE their cost of a slab, label and labor becuase they DONT reslab it, and they get the "market reputation" of being "tougher", thus furthering the cyclone of grading insanity. That service is clearly a setup to make them $ and prey upon people's unhealthy need to have a label that says "10" rather than a nice card. Insanity!
BGS has nice slabs, but it’s all preference. Resale with PSA is just currently higher. Not to say it will always be that way, but it has been for the last few years.
U should never have resubmitted to psa that was a bad idea psa grading has not been very accurate with grades. Only submit 9.5 with hope to increase grade csg 10 should have stayed in csg slabs .
It depends on what your goal is. If you are holding the cards for a PC, than I agree with you. If you are trying to sell the cards, PSA is the way to go. Those cards sat on eBay for 4 months without moving. They will sell almost instantly in a PSA slab.
You guys that do crack crossovers to PSA are just proving that HGA, SGA are superior coz they are harder. So you send to PSA for a higher score. Reality check and proof that HGA 9, SGC 9 are basically equivalent to a PSA 10 hands down. So in theory they should fetch the PSA 10 value or better coz they are harder on grading!
None of it makes sense at all - do a video resubbing all the PSA's that didn't get a 10 and send them back to PSA and see what you get the second time aroun
It would definitely be an interesting test and we have done it a few times, but the grades did not change. The cards have to be worth the regrade fee. We have a few upcoming videos that we do this in.
PSA grading is trash now. Very inconsistent. CSG & SGC are much more reliable and consistent. People will eventually realize that and stop paying a premium for PSA
Just great wasting money in the long run to flipping grading services if you do all the math between paying each company to grade and shipping cots in the end waste of good money down the drain
I don't believe this is true. PSA having new people off the street slapping any grade on the card is the problem. They don't care either because most people will just crack and resubmit to PSA and they make twice as much money
Not sure I agree with you. All the interviews I have seen with Nat Turner show that he is a collector and he appears to care more about the collectors than the flippers. I think he has made a huge improvement to PSA with all the changes. It just comes down to the human aspect: each company has many different graders and they all have different experience levels. But there has to be a minimum standard they all use. HGA is a company we do not use much anymore, when they where brand new and hiring lots of brand new workers: but they seemed to stay very consistent in there grading. ( HGA also used more AI to help in grading) Hopefully 1 day we will get a certificate/ report card on how and why each card graded they way it does. ( sub grades showed this, but more a detailed report.
@Scott Parks um. I'm pretty sure that's not true. You can't just hire new people off the street to grade cards, pretty much everyone that shares this viewpoint is saying it out of hunch rather than facts.
@@frostyfeetcards You are correct in the fact that it is just a hunch about the new graders but the facts are clear that PSA is terribly inconsistent ever since they shutdown submissions almost 2 years ago for whatever reason it happens to be
@@scottparks362 Once again, not a fact but an opinion which you are certainly most entitled to. Unless you have data, it will remain an opinion just like mine.
This video just proves how subjective card grading is. Doesn't validate PSA anymore at the end then it did at the beginning. CSG is an amazing slab and not sure why you would crossover to PSA.
The slabs are great, the resale is not. That is the main reason for the crossover. CSG is great for PC, but if you plan on selling them, unfortunately you have to go with PSA.
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I recently sent in 3 cards to be crossed over from SGC 10’s to PSA 10’s without cracking them just a straight crossover with min grade set at 10 & gladly they all came back as PSA 10’s!
Nice.
We can see that going either way, and they charge a little more for that service?
We can see competition between the companies as far as “ who is the better grader”- or stricter- or consistent- or…., so if they see another company graded it a certain way, they may grade it differently.
Or, they may think the company has a good reputation and grades consistently, lets just look it over quickly and go with the same grade.
Thats the only way I’d do it-send in the slab. That way they only crack if it’s a ten.
Great analysis at the end. First time I’ve seen someone do a crack and resubmit, with this analysis.
I really like Csg especially with the new label. I do like Sgc for vintage also. These two companies are very consistent with grading. When I use Psa I get some serious headscratchers.
CSG IS GARBAGE, ITS BEEN PROVEN
Appreciate that breakdown at the end. As brutal as it seemed as it was going on, looks like it all worked out in the end.
Prices are stabilizing because the collecting hype has faded along with stimulus checks and lockdowns. Sorry but I'm glad the hype is subsiding. The prices were getting crazy high. 🤪 collect on my peeps!!!!
The prices are still crazy
@@crankycardguy1369 yep they are
Great video revealing valuable information when crossing over to PSA. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you liked it! More cracking videos coming in the future
I’ll stick with SGC. The only consistent thing about PSA is their inconsistency.
Personally, I like CSG and SGC the most. Though as anybody who has been around more than a year or so, the condition differential between 9's, 9.5's and 10's is genrally nothing but fugazzi. It's fairydust.
Thanks for taking the time to create this content. I enjoyed it!
We have seen a lot of fairydust: and from all the grading companies.
What did I learn from this video? Professional grading is a sham.
As a SGC user and a seller myself, I appreciate you taking one for the team and trying the resub... it goes to show that there is a potential market for resubbing SGC 9.5s to PSA to try and upgrade them to 10s.. I would definitely not touch SGC 10s for any reason because you will only be setting yourself up for the disappointment as you experienced. Very cool video guys.. enjoyed it..
Do you only use SGC? From what I have seen they appear to be #2 in resale value. And I have hears there turn around times are incredible at the time.
I am not a huge fan of the “ tuxedo”, but it does look good on some cards.
@@nothingbutcardboard Sgc is definitely becoming the #2 choice for resale imo. Their turn times are in DAYS not weeks. Only issue they have is their pricing. At $30 they are the highest priced option now but hoping they drop the price. I do sub thru bulk submitter at $23 per card so definitely helps.
It’s a shame bgs has fallen off a cliff. I still buy bgs 9.5’s because I believe their grading standards are excellent. I like sgc also, very fast and fair.
Agree with both comments.
Great video gentlemen. I think the problem started when they introduced the 10 grade. The difference between a 9 and 10 is very small. That would eliminate all the controversy. Unfortunately, it’s too late now of course.
Great video guys! Man I love the idea of grading with PSA but with over 100 different grader’s spending 20 seconds to grade cards just feels like luck to get a 10.
Yeah, the pretty much sums up most people’s feeling towards PSA. They are pumping cards out extremely quickly, so it’s difficult to trust they are getting the attention each card deserves. BUT PSA is where the resale is at, so it’s a double edged sword.
This is pretty spot on. There's little to no difference in my PSA 9's vs. 10's... even the 8's had no visible flaws. If PSA is going to keep commanding that much of a premium; people will keep flooding them with cards.
I agree and that's why I haven't submitted any card to get slabbed in the last year. It's been killing me but methinks if I wait prices will come down as market and hype goes with the economy.
@@nothingbutcardboard HOW DO WE CHANGE THE WHOLE RESALE VALUE FOR PSA?? WHY DOES IT MATTER WHO GRADES IT?
@Robert Hudson that’s a great question. It has to do with reputation and how long each company has been grading cards. PSA has been around for a long time, but it will probably take a lot of people getting upset at PSA and refusing to use them before you’ll start to see other companies start to gain some traction.
I would like to see more early 2000s and 90s crossovers. This ultra modern stuff should do better anyway.
CSG SLABS LOOK 10X BETTER AND MORE CLEAR. NO WAY IN THE WORLD IMA CRACK A CSG SLAB AND PUT IN A PSA FOGGY PRESCRIPTION BOTTLE THAT MOVES AND NOT STABLE...ONLY FOR RESALE NOT PERSONALLY. THE WAY I SEE IT NEXT 5 YRS ITS GOING TO SWITCH ALL AROUND... PSA IS HYPE BEAST CSG IS QUALITY
10:49 ... or grading has some randomness to it. Same card can be graded psa 10 one day or psa 9 the next day.
This is why psa holds more weight for modern. If your using sgc for vintage they do fine but modern cards in other companies holders don’t typically fetch a major premium outside of rare cards.
Getting soooo close to 1k, guys, keep it up! In your experience, do you think PSA has stricter grading on corners and edges (in comparison to CSG)? Wasn’t sure if you were able to identify a common theme or not. Were the SGC 9.5s that went to a PSA 10 due to back of card centering you think? (Or maybe it was, as John mentioned, the previous grader went on break 😂). The SGC 9.5 to an 8 is just crazy 🤯. I say you crack those PSA 8s and resubmit to PSA…maybe a future video?! Thanks for sharing your experience, fellas!
If we only knew. We do feel that the cards that go from SGC 9.5 to a PSA 10 is because of the back of the card.
And not really sure about how PSA handles grading corners and edges. We do feel PSA is a little more Lenient on dimples and print lines.
Confirmed! Grading is subjective 😂
Good video, but when a CSG 10 got a PSA 9, is it really a 9 or is it a victim of pop control. I'll take CSG 10's all day for P.C
pop control. You send in enough they will give you some 10's arbitrarily but they 100 percent pop control.
CSG is now a GMA but with shinier slabs 😂😂
That was good stuff to see especially for those of us where cracking slabs is a big part of our business. I've been hearing CSG is the strictest, so this vid def helped. Just my opinion and from my experience, but the reason for all the PSA 9s is that PSA is extremely tight with giving paper cards 10s. I noticed this when I 1st started grading back in late 2020 when all my Donruss were coming back 9s even tho they clearly looked like 💎s. Reason cracked paper cards are hard to grade up is because you cannot clean / "fix" paper cards like you can chrome/prizms. A bent corner will always be bent and any surface marks will always be there but w/the chrome n prizm cards you can rub off marks & sharpen corners. Overall, though, I feel you still did pretty good.
And I definitely believe PSA is by far the hardest/strictest grading company, atleast since Turner & Co. took over. I have cracked over 100 cards to send off to PSA in 2022 and it seemed like the original grading companies gave grades they didn't deserve to the majority of the cards, which told me these companies were clearly much more lenient. I would find so many noticable things on the cards w/the naked eye but ESPECIALLY when under our microscope. If you really wanna step up your grading game & get many more 💎s, I HIGHLY suggest getting one for yourselves; Tomlov Digital Microscopes. These 🔬come w/ up to 1500x magnification so you truly see EVERYTHING on a card which means you know what needs to be cleaned/fixed if possible, but just as important you can weed out the cards that shouldn't be sent in the 1st place which = more $ being saved. Keep up the good work and great content!
Great insight, thanks for sharing. We use a jewelers loop when pre-grading, but will look into the micro scope.
1500 times microscope? Come on man. Are the factory tolerances even going that far?
@@pete5691 haha not even close, that's what's so great about 🔬s and why I get like 97% of our pregrades correct. You can see everything & by grading enough you learn to know what to look for & what grades most likely will be based on what you see.
@@nothingbutcardboard Yah a jewler's loops good for traveling for sure, altho I bring my scope when setting up at shows because ppl love to come up & have me look at their cards for them. It definitely brings a crowd too because not something you ever see really. I wanna look into those fancy new handheld things you see in videos sometimes for when I am on the other side of the table.
@@GemRippers Oh ok. Definitely a scientific approach to it. PSA is toughest grader? How do you rate the others? I’ve started to buy a lot of bgs 9.5’s. I just feel like I trust their grading despite how much they’ve slipped down in terms of volume.
Love the nerdy high fives, dorks
Who doesn’t love a good high five
Interesting experiment, looks like you actually made out by cracking and resubmitting.
It has worked out for us real well in the past too. We have a few other cracking videos, this was the first one where we had multiple slabs downgraded though.
This was a great video. Cracking slabs, theres always the chance for damage or a finger print, or something that wasn't there before. But if your confident in your skills getting them out, then this just shows me how much of a crap shoot the whole process is. Most of the time it's just luck of the draw. Keep up the good vids guys.
Thanks for the comment! Up to this point we were 10 for 10 on crossing over to gem mint. So we are fairly confident we didn’t damage the cards when we cracked them. But you’re right, it can be a bit of a crap shoot. There is also the possibility of CSG damaging the cards while encapsulating them. The more a card is handled, the greater the risk. We have some more cracking videos in the pipeline, so fingers crossed!
I guess you have to expect that with the cracking and the card getting handled again that a couple cards would take a hit. I can’t believe the price difference between a PSA and CSG 10.
Yeah, paper cards tend to be a little more prone to handling damage than an optic type stock card. We had been having pretty good luck crossing over up until this video. Got some more in the pipeline, so it will be interesting to see how those do. The price difference between CSG and PSA is crazy!
We have felt the same way for awhile now, and hopefully it comes to pass. We love how there slabs feel and look, Definitely the most clear slab on the market- hopefully with time the re-sale value comes.
i got an 85 Tops Clemens in at PSA right now, im hoping to the sports gods that it comes back at a PSA 10.
great video!! this speaks directly to going *miles* above & beyond to find, and grade, only the mintyest of cards!
however, tbh, it doesn't say much about PSA. sadly, your crossovers weren't anywhere near Gem - and that's to my blind naked eye (though that US1 Shohei looked sweet). now, it's not a knock on you, but it's most certainly a knock on CSG and their scale (there's a reason their prices are trash) 😔
also, per the comment/s, there's most definitely rhyme, and reason, that went into why they received the grades they did (it's not a crapshoot). which is the perfect segue to hopefully helping out the industry by saying everyone should own a Centering Tool/Omnigrid (all 8 non-Gem were OC), a 20x LED loupe/magnifying glass & possibly a USB camera for the edges, just to get a really good look (you'd be amazed). also, scan your cards in the Card Saver prior to packaging, b/c, like you thought (though, doubtful w/ the Luka) damage does occur at the grading companies. please, spread the word!! 😊
new subscriber - thanks for the content 🙇♂️ 🤙
Thanks for checking out the video and welcome to the channel! Great suggestions for pregrading!
This was a recommended channel, 1 year after your upload. This is assuming CSG is using similar grading standards to SGC and PSA? Because it's not the case. They still follow the BGS grading scale, they just don't list the subgrades because eliminating them helped streamline their processing to get it door to door in days/weeks rather than months. When they switched to their gen2 labels, they also reduced their strictness on how they graded their surface.
Thanks for checking out the channel. You are right, they definitely reduced the strictness from green to black label
From my experience grading, there is absolutely no difference between a 9 and 10 for 90% of the cards. I think they flip coins when they grade to decide. The premiums people pay for Gem Mint is insane. If you resubbed the PSA 10's back to PSA, 50% would become a PSA 9.
That would be a super interesting test! Let us know if you ever try that haha.
@@nothingbutcardboard cracking out all of my PSA 10's in the name of science right now! ;)
I’m very content with my collection of 9’s. I’ll let the big boys spend 15x on that 10 label.
@@michaelroot1960 nothing wrong with 9s
Yep. Spot on...
We all know CSG is easier than PSA since new black label. Cool video!
Thanks Matt! More videos like this soon to follow!
It always comes down to buying the card, not the grading company. For me I just want the cleanest looking card that I can afford.
Ouch... you never know. Ive had several cross over from BGS to PSA lately though and get a bump up in grades. And cracked some from PSA and sent back for better grades as well. Its all a s*it show...
Lol. All depends on the grader- should be more consistent.
Not sure if I feel like selling cards anymore graded till all these graders are equal. Would be so nice if someone could force these graders into 1 singular system of grading so the playing fields are equal when selling.
Prob never happen. I would like to see them closer in resale and # of cards graded.
Everyone has a different opinion or feeling on there favorite.
Coke or Pepsi
Ford or Chevy
McDonalds or Burger King
It's an issue that will never be solved because no 2 graders grade the same. its a matter of opinion on cards graded 8 to 10.
Josh Allen was slightly off centered, not a shock PSA only gave a 9, I personally feel like most of the PSA 9’s are just slightly off-centered.
Hey guys, have you ever gotten a grade from PSA that was higher than your original CSG or BGS grades??
Yes, we have had a few CSG 9.5’s go to 10s. Haven’t tried BGS yet. But we have had the most success with SGC 9.5s going to PSA 10. We are in the process of testing green label CSG 9s and HGA 9s. Those videos are dropping in a few weeks
PSA is everything wrong in the industry. SCG IS KING
SCG is for sure the King of vintage, in my opinion.
@@nothingbutcardboard they're moving in on Modern too I'm sending them my stuff just because I want them to take the industry over PSA is just trash at this point and they manipulate the market I don't care what anybody says
The cost to regrade hurt your bottom dollar amount. The rule is anything 9.5 u submit to hope for 10 and anything else you leave in slab and sell
Did you watch the end of the video when we revealed the breakdown of profits? John made $200 more than he would have if he left them in the CSG slabs: and part of it was an experiment. Half of the cards are long term holds, so the values should rise when the market picks back up. And the flip side is, as CSG get more “ credibility” there slab prices should go up in value as well.
Where is the Pokémon ? Why didn’t you put them in the CGC slab ?
Lol sorry, we haven’t branched out to Pokémon yet.
Psa has the most cards sent in. In another word, they control the graded card market. Sometimes They Just intend to give you 9s to balance the card market. If there is a card with 100 pop 10s, 50 pop 9s, bigger chance they g8ve you a 9 to balance the pop.
Why would you crack CSG 10s, and not submit them slabbed with a min grade 10?
There are a few reasons. First off, PSA is going to charge you whether they crack it or not, just for looking at it. They also are going to charge extra if they do crack it and cross it over (I believe it is ~$50 per card, but that might have also changed). Second, I would rather have a PSA 9 than a CSG 10. Much easier to move and you’re really not losing much value. You’ll end up saving a ton of money sending it in a bulk rate submission, especially if they are low dollar cards (which most CSG slabbed cards are). Hope this helps.
9:25 I've seen some SGC 9.5s with really bad back corners
Yeah, they are fairly lenient on card backs.
your suppose to get the old csg labels
The green labels do crossover better. They were definitely harder on grading back then.
CSG is growing. PSA is losing market share value each day. If your reselling right away then PSA is the way. Over long time those CSG slabs will gain value but depends on everyone’s strategy.
Agreed
Some of those grades were brutal, but you did fairly well all and all.
Yes, it was nerve racking cracking brand new slabs and paying to get graded again.
Not sure what happened to the Josh Allen and Luka slabs, those would have helped out in the profits if they had gemmed out.
Sgc 10 or psa 9?
No grading company is perfect, but ouch! Either PSA grades inconsistently, CSG just handing out 10’s or both! I was rooting for you guys, but man, that was a lot of money to spend on those specific cards. CSG has nice slabs, I don’t know why their re-sell values are so low! People just don’t care, they love psa!! 🤦🏽
We are hoping CSG keeps growing and getting better re-sale value. We do love there slabs and they have great customer service.
I personally like CSG's labels and slabs way better.
I like them a lot better since they changed from the green labels. And they do have the clearest slabs on the market.
You destroyed yourself by even going to CSG. Lmao
Lol, in hindsight, CSG wasn’t the best decision. But to be fair at the time PSA only had $50 grading.
This is why graders notes are needed. What was wrong with the first card? Look at the Lebrons-one 9.5 gets an 8 one 9.5 gets a 10. It almost makes you not take grading seriously.
It is hard to take is seriously, but we just have to remember the “ human part” of grading. If the same card went to a handful of different graders in the same facility there is a good chance that card gets a few different grades.
Sorry about those bad grades. smh. Wish you more luck the next time around. They should of been all 10's or 9's. Those 9.5's should of not went down.
It’s all good! Had to do it in the name of science haha!
oh man
For the life of me I will never understand re grading. Cards under 100! Maybe 200 bucks but that's crazy how bad psa gas become
Crack those 8’s and resubmit and watch them be 10’s lol.
It is possible. There just needs to be more consistency with in each company.
SGC 10 to a PSA 8, thats a big difference.
@@nothingbutcardboard Just look the cards over, and if you don't see a reason for the grade, then just crack and resubmit. I have seen 8's come back as 10's. Sometimes they just make mistakes; it's just too bad that you have to pay for it.
love when dopes think grass is greener at psa
Thanks for watching Rock.
PSA is trash. With their shady practices it's crazy how they are the leaders in grading. So many trimmed cards allowed as long as it's their people. PSA 10s reserved for their top submitters on big cards.
PSA wants to controll the number of 10;s a card will have to keep the value up so when they get close to the number they down grade the card so the value of the 10 stays higher
No the printing quality gets worse every year
Thing is a human grades cards, a different person may grade different and I hate that! Their may have to be a computer that grades cards that makes it all equal??
Some use an AI, to help with grading- but they want a human to be involved.
We agree with you, wish there was a way to make it more equal.
It is like an umpire in a baseball game- different guys call it a little different, but should all be consistent. I think I would rather have that than a robot back there calling balls and strikes, but that is probably coming.
And if they have a question or problem, they can ask another ref his opinion or what he saw. Maybe more than 1 person should look at eat card along with an AI, and then average the grades.?
You have to work 9's into psa orders to get your 10's in ratio. They will NEVER give all 10's
I’d like to think they would give them all 10s if they truly deserved it. But I’d be lying if I said we didn’t strategically place cards throughout the order to “ease” them into our better cards haha.
PSA will give you a 9 not because it is a 9 but because for certain cards they do not want you to have a 10
We have heard a lot of “ rumors” about how PSA controls pop counts.
did you add shipping (to CSG and to PSA) and any upcharges (profit sharing) to the price of getting them graded so it wasn't truely$18 per card...
this video shows PSA doesn't know what that are doing over there, just making up grades. Glad I will never ever use them again.
Yeah we added shipping charges. CSG came out to $12.07 and PSA came out to $19.48. So the values at the end are accurate. We were pretty frustrated with PSA last year. Had multiple lots with them that took over a year to get back. If you are collecting for PC, we like CSG, but for resale PSA takes the cake.
Hopefully that changes because there isn't anything good about PSA. Bad grading, horrible slabs/labels, overpriced, and the #1reason I don't use them is the upcharges or as I call it profit sharing. TAG is the one I am trying. I like free shipping and supplies.
@@Tintmaster775 let us know how you like them. We’ve never used them before.
TAG is adding the grading reports that you were wanting to see. I would totally grade with them if their prices were a little cheaper
@@scottparks362 cheaper? How much cheaper can you go. They give you free shipping and shipping supplies.
It's not the 90s anymore people, also companies need to make money and a little profit to stay in business. TAG isn't ripping you off like PSA.
population control is a major problem I sent 10 vlad jr topps chrome refractor rookies in to PSA got 1 ten 3 nines 3 eights 2 sevens and 1 six they were all beautiful cards seriously 8's,7's and 6's for pristine ultra modern they are a joke
I think it is just luck of the draw
very well could be. A lot has to do with the particular grader you get.
Grading is a scam. How you people can't figure this out is mind blowing!
You shouldn’t even grade those LeBron those are the cheapest LeBrons you can pretty much get
Lol- those are pretty much the only LBJ RCs I can afford. I prob had $25 into each card- including grading fees. They will prob go
For $100+ when I finally sell them.
The more you handle a card the more likely you will mess up the card. cracking a card is a bad idea generally. all of these companies have huge earnings about doing it. based on the fact that some went up in grading....there is no difference in the grading. my of the graders bounce around companies anyway
Yes we agree with you, the more you handle a cars the more likely to damage it. But not all grading companies are the same and especially the resale value of a card- from company to company. And I disagree with you that “ they all grade the same”, we have seen that even all the graders in 1 company do not grade the same. I wish I could send a card to any company, lets just say SGC- and if 5 different graders grade it, it would get the same grade every time: but, with the human element in grading, this is usually not the case.
It just goes to show the card has more clout than the grade.
PSA is completely random and a horrible company. CSG you can find deals right now but they are the standard in comics and coins and in the long run the resale value will catch up for sports cards. They already are really good for gaming cards.
We are hoping CSGs values catch up
To PSA also. We have used them several times, we love the slabs- thank God they changed to color of the label, and they have great customer service.
now you don't have to waste time cracking slabs and potentially ruining your card, they offer a crossover service and they evaluate the card in the slab and only crack it and reslab if it meets the grade you want.
You can do that, but it’s more expensive (I believe $50 a slab) and I really doubt they would take a CSG/SGC 9.5 and raise it to a 10. But yes, that service is available. It would be interesting to see how consistently 10s cross over to a 10.
@@nothingbutcardboard No TPG has ANY BUSINESS INCENTIVE to every give you a better grade. they get your $ upfront, you paid to ship it, they SAVE their cost of a slab, label and labor becuase they DONT reslab it, and they get the "market reputation" of being "tougher", thus furthering the cyclone of grading insanity. That service is clearly a setup to make them $ and prey upon people's unhealthy need to have a label that says "10" rather than a nice card. Insanity!
BGS > PSA , not even close.
BGS has nice slabs, but it’s all preference. Resale with PSA is just currently higher. Not to say it will always be that way, but it has been for the last few years.
PSA 10 resale is less than any BGS 9.5. PSA floods the POP with 10s destroying the market.
U should never have resubmitted to psa that was a bad idea psa grading has not been very accurate with grades. Only submit 9.5 with hope to increase grade csg 10 should have stayed in csg slabs .
It depends on what your goal is. If you are holding the cards for a PC, than I agree with you. If you are trying to sell the cards, PSA is the way to go. Those cards sat on eBay for 4 months without moving. They will sell almost instantly in a PSA slab.
You guys that do crack crossovers to PSA are just proving that HGA, SGA are superior coz they are harder. So you send to PSA for a higher score. Reality check and proof that HGA 9, SGC 9 are basically equivalent to a PSA 10 hands down. So in theory they should fetch the PSA 10 value or better coz they are harder on grading!
None of it makes sense at all - do a video resubbing all the PSA's that didn't get a 10 and send them back to PSA and see what you get the second time aroun
It would definitely be an interesting test and we have done it a few times, but the grades did not change. The cards have to be worth the regrade fee. We have a few upcoming videos that we do this in.
PSA grading is trash now. Very inconsistent. CSG & SGC are much more reliable and consistent. People will eventually realize that and stop paying a premium for PSA
Very possibly! Just not sure how long that is going to take.
Just great wasting money in the long run to flipping grading services if you do all the math between paying each company to grade and shipping cots in the end waste of good money down the drain
If you stayed to the end of the video I broke down the numbers and how much $ was lost or made. Do you make $ on every card you decide to get graded?
Now try it with the CSG cards, complete opposite
The issue really is CSG changing things from 9.5 to 10 system and eliminating subgrades.
I don't believe this is true. PSA having new people off the street slapping any grade on the card is the problem. They don't care either because most people will just crack and resubmit to PSA and they make twice as much money
Not sure I agree with you. All the interviews I have seen with Nat Turner show that he is a collector and he appears to care more about the collectors than the flippers. I think he has made a huge improvement to PSA with all the changes.
It just comes down to the human aspect: each company has many different graders and they all have different experience levels. But there has to be a minimum standard they all use.
HGA is a company we do not use much anymore, when they where brand new and hiring lots of brand new workers: but they seemed to stay very consistent in there grading. ( HGA also used more AI to help in grading)
Hopefully 1 day we will get a certificate/ report card on how and why each card graded they way it does. ( sub grades showed this, but more a detailed report.
@Scott Parks um. I'm pretty sure that's not true. You can't just hire new people off the street to grade cards, pretty much everyone that shares this viewpoint is saying it out of hunch rather than facts.
@@frostyfeetcards You are correct in the fact that it is just a hunch about the new graders but the facts are clear that PSA is terribly inconsistent ever since they shutdown submissions almost 2 years ago for whatever reason it happens to be
@@scottparks362 Once again, not a fact but an opinion which you are certainly most entitled to. Unless you have data, it will remain an opinion just like mine.
This video just proves how subjective card grading is. Doesn't validate PSA anymore at the end then it did at the beginning. CSG is an amazing slab and not sure why you would crossover to PSA.
The slabs are great, the resale is not. That is the main reason for the crossover. CSG is great for PC, but if you plan on selling them, unfortunately you have to go with PSA.