Hi Joe, thanks for making this video. I would like to point out to your followers that I have not made any endorsements and that you actually purchased the Royal Mount 50 soft brass thumbwheels and posts kit. Regarding the adapters vs traditional posts test, there is one thing to consider: many adapter manufacturers make them in steel and not in soft brass or if they are in brass they are harder modern alloys with a very different resonance compared to soft brass. From my point of view, a guitar created with a Nashville bridge by switching to ABR-1 with soft brass adapters manages to get very close to the sound of a guitar created with the posts screwed directly into the wood. Obviously the mass of brass is different and the equalization compared to the traditional ABR-1 posts will be slightly different. But consider that soft brass manages to sweeten the high frequencies and manages to give more presence and "body" to the medium frequencies. The low frequencies are never muddy and the notes can be distinguished very well. As a final consideration, I would really like to talk to you about the soft brass that I use for Royal Mount because I believe I am the only one in the world who uses NOS (new old stock) bars that are at least 70 years old. I and many other guitarists have heard a notable difference between NOS soft brass and recent soft brass. Probably the way of making this alloy has changed over the years and this translates into a more distant sound compared to the sound of the "bursts" which are our point of reference. Thank you again for choosing Royal Mount and congratulations on the excellent work!
Thanks for all of your thoughts & the information. And yep - the Nashville adaptors. the plain threads & both sets of thumbwheels were all bought at full retail price on Reverb! :-)
I did the whole ’59 thing to my 2016 Les Paul Traditional. It now has the Faber bridge with the screw-in stud inserts, Monty’s PAFs, 50s wiring and lightweight aluminium tailpiece. With a set of amber top-hats it now has that '59 look and I'm really pleased with the outcome. Tonally, the differences are mostly due to the pickups. Functionally, the Nashville is the better bridge. It has a wider intonation range, doesn't collapse over time and it could be argued that, due its greater mass, it has more sustain. These are definitive improvements, right? If the Nashville had come first the purists would now be complaining that the 'new' ABR-1 is cheap, flimsy and "ruins the vintage tone".
I've had many LPs over the years with both Nashville and ABR-1's, the most resonant guitars I would say were the Nashville variants, but I suspect nothing to do with the bridge on those particular guitars
Great point Kevin, just imagine if these "purists" spent as much time actually playing their instrument as they do fretting (pun intended) over all these nuances when touch, amplification, effects and yes pickups play such a huge part in the sonic character of the guitar.
@kevin. So true I often wonder if the Nashville came out first what the purest would think?! The owner of a big guitar store here in New Orleans owns a number of Gibsons and fenders from the 1950’s that I’ve had the privilege to be able to play. And they are unbelievable playing and sounding guitars. But people sometimes do get too caught up nailing the exact specs and I’ve found myself guilty of falling for the same nostalgia. But I’ve played many outstanding guitar’s from different eras and makers in my last 35 years of playing. A great guitar is a great guitar
Definitely could hear the difference and it was much bigger than I was expecting, I agree with your impression. The adaptors definitely added more metallic zing and fizz and straight into the wood is definitely smoother and more pleasant to my ears. Thank you for always doing way too much work to compare super subtle things that most people don’t really care about, I really appreciate your videos!
I’m also hearing the slight increase in highs and upper mids with the adapter studs vs. the treaded studs. I know it’s heresy, but I kind of preferred it in the specific clips I heard, but you’re absolutely right that it could be likely be eq’d one way or another on the amp with pretty similar effects. Did you notice a difference in resonance vs. the stock Nashville setup? I see people say the Faber conversion studs say their guitars were noticeably louder with the conversion studs, but I haven’t seen many from sources I trust as much as your channel. Thanks for the video!
Just the video I was looking for! Thanks for doing the work and sharing. I think you took that guitar up a notch for sure. This definitely made me feel more open to buying a Nashville style and converting.
TH-cam compression is eating it before you can hear it. Also, he's playing chords - overlapping notes. You can hear it best playing single notes, but it is a subtle thing.
🙏 nice one for actually deep diving on this idea Joe! I’ve been emotionally torn about this subject for a while. I want to love the old school build and sound but at the end of the day in my situation (and in this video) the Nashville bridge is always more well rounded and balanced across all 6 strings no mater what the guitar (which avoids needing to process the sound as much - pedal or post amp outboard in a studio setting) I think when the guitar is amazing it doesn’t matter at all what’s going on spec wise. But in general the Nashville situation seems to be stronger and more consistent sonically especially in a band live or studio setting, the pokiness of an abr1 is something to bare witness too, but by lord do you need to be a great player to make the most of that old tech, it’s more raw - but unfortunately people lack the skills to pull off the old stuff like musicians used too… anyway great video, all the best man appreciate ya! (I totally agree with you btw haha) 🙌
You made an interesting comment about a sizzle-type sound (16:23). I have a Yamaha and aftermarket Les Paul with Nashville-style adapters. When I changed the bridges for a Wilkinson bridge, the notes didn't ring like a bell, or individually as they did with the original bridges, but the notes started to phase together until they literally choked and cancelled each other out. I originally also described it as "fizzling" as that is what it sounded like before the notes choked out. I was just wondering whether that was what you experienced?
Joe, I appreciate your commitment to guitar nerdery and tonal experiments. I'm always impressed with your ability to play the same thing twice so accurately for comparisons - something I'm rubbish at! I agree that straight into the wood does sound more woody and the adapters do sound brighter. A small change, or inaudible change even, for most people, probably, but the kind of thing that makes a massive difference to those of us obsessed with tone and chasing sound who are kept up at night by this kind of thing 😂
I've seen the previous video and it was a brilliant one. I saw the comments and didn't expect such a pro-level reaction, bravo! This video is excellent!
Interesting video, thank you! But You skipped the part that I wanted to see...how did you install the threaded...threads directly on the wood? Are they threaded all the long? how did you do it? Because I'm thinking about doing the same thing. And...did you notice problems on intonation? because if you install them a little offset, you may run out of length on the saddles to intonate...I would really like to know about theses things. Thanks anyway for posting it!!
I thought the difference was quite obvious! The adapters seem to add another layer of metallic top tones, while the straight in the wood approach yielded a more pure, less complex tone with added low mids. Big change imo.
Interesting. I put a Faber ABR/Posts in a 90s LP Custom to 50fy it and am very happy - don't think I'll get the dowels and wood glue out after watching this. But I do think the screwed into wood sound is a bit tighter and less toppy (mostly but not always a good thing!). Very grateful for the comparison. It's nice having the look of an ABR but it was the OX4 pick ups that unsurprisingly made the biggest difference. Do you think the ThroBak's are worth the premium? Your LP mod videos have given great insight. Thanks.
I appreciate you asking the question. It's one that I was curious about. Thanks for the comparison. The Nashville has a bit more top end to my ears. At a live gig though,the difference probably wouldn't be noticed,but for sure the Nashville would cut through the mix better.That said ,with a tad of EQ,they would sound the same live.So,I'll keep my Nashville bridge on my Les Paul. Great video Joe 🤝
Man! This is an Outstanding video! (No problem at all here about its length) You did a great Job.. I dont konw how many outhere wolud mod their 92 "Good wood" LP to full test adaptors!..and Yes I appreciate the Royal Mount product too! ❤❤ Well Done Boys Well Done! Keep on Rocking!
I agree with your assessment. You can EQ this tone change easily with your amp, and as soon as you put any gain in the mix the difference disappears. Thanks for doing this so I don't have to. :D
The adapter tone is more pokey and spikey to the ears where as the Post's going into the wood are more focused and warm. I prefer the post's into the wood tone.
Thank you very much for the very helpful video. I actually did my own a/b test with my Nashville to Faber upgrade and considered installing dowels as well. Looks as if it's easier to tweak an EQ to come very close. Given there's a drummer nearby who ruins the subtle tone changes of my abr-1 bridge efforts anyway.
I have a LP Studio with a Nashville bridge. I bought a Gotoh Abr type bridge and the studs are too thin for the stock thread on the studio. I bought a Faber m4 to m5 converter, seeing that the Gotoh has m4 screws and the stock bridge has m5 screws. I hope it turns out good, because i was soo excited to upgrade my guitar, i also bought an aged brass tailpiece that looks awesome.The gotoh bridge is also aged and looks cool.
Hi, and first, thanks for doing the work for this experiment. So to my ears, on my Samsung S11+ phone speakers, studs directly into the wood dulled the tone ever so slightly and with the adaptor inserts it sounds slightly brighter and more sustainy? If that's a word... Over all if I had no idea there was a change I wouldn't have noticed a difference. I will like to listen on quality speakers and see if I still conclude the same. Dean Richards
@JoePerkinsMusic First off Joe thank you for all the effort/work that you did to make this comparison as accurate as possible. As far as the tonal differences, I think your descriptions are pretty accurate, and I agree with you (and some other posts here) that the differences in both this video and your previous bridge comparison video are kind of negligible (especially between the Farber and the 4 Uncles), and some Amp tweaks and more practice would probably do more for your sound then the bridge change. However if you are not specifically going for an accurate replica of an original Gibson ABR-1 bridge, I personally have changed mine to Farber's Tone-Lock ABR-1 Bridge and TP-’59 Tailpiece with Spacers, which I really like and I think sounds very good, and actually fit better/tighter than Gibson's with less play. My motivation however was not just from a "tone" perspective, but more because of the better designed locking hardware IMO, so that string changes are a breeze without the Bridge or Tailpiece falling off. Rather then using a small set screw (with a pinpoint holding your bridge in place) and having to search for a set screw tool to make your bridge adjustments, it's easy to access the large locking nuts straight down from the top of the bridge to secure it. Regarding the Tailpiece, it is also a way superior design IMHO that allows you to get the effect of "top wrapping" and flooring the Tailpiece against the guitar (which many believe also effects your tone), without causing the other possibly negative effects of adding extra string length (caused by wrapping the strings), having to add extra string end nuts to prevent the twisted end of the strings from extending past the Tailpiece, scratching up the finish on the top of your Tailpiece, and avoiding putting too much pressure on the Bridge from excessive string angle (so it doesn't collapse the bridge). Essentially, the Tailpiece can be adjusted to the proper height needed (to keep the strings off the back of the bridge at any chosen angle) while still having the Tailpiece metal directly touching down to the guitar by using of the tailpiece Spacers (which lock down against the metal bushings and the wood body of the guitar). Lastly, they are reasonably priced well made and brass coated. I have no affiliation with Farber...these are just my observations and opinions.
Dave might be wrong in this instance conceptually, the contact points are the upper surfaces of the thumbwheels/ABR and the outermost edges of the post threads/ABR, BOTH tenuous transmission surfaces at best for any vibrations... BUT it may be those innocuous imperfections that in fact help make for the vintage sound overall...
I have a 2001 LP Studio that I've had for almost 20 years now, and a 2018 '58 reissue LP I've had for about 6 months. Even just acoustically, the '58 reissue is brighter, clearer, and louder sounding than the Studio, and I think the bridge + studs have a lot to do with that. There are two other things that I think significantly contribute to the acoustic differences. For one, the finish thickness on the Studio is definitely a little thicker, which dampens the sound a bit. For two, I suspect the Studio has the "rocker" neck joint, which is not a very tight joint and robs the guitar of some resonance. It's still a great guitar, but definitely different than the reissue. Love seeing your comparison videos, Joe. I can tell lots of work and care goes into these!!
I have a 2001 LP standard. That’s an amazing sounding guitar. It had the typical Gibson Nashville style bridge but I did put an aluminum one with titanium saddles and it definitely sounds brighter, even louder acoustically. I also put wcr pickups and vintage bumblebee caps and it sounds insane!! It has a chirp to it when played clean and has that cool honk a LP should have with some overdrive. Only thing I don’t like about it is it’s fairly heavy
VERY WELL DONE VIDEO. In my ears the difference is very slight, especially playing chords. Being in the room might make it more discernible for sure. In a mix the difference might not matter much. Neat experiment though. I’m sure everyone appreciates you doing this - MANY LP owners have been curious about the claim. It might differ between guitars so... Your LP sounds GREAT either way. Great playing BTW - really clean.
There is a difference though I couldn’t say one is better than the other. It would be interesting to hear what adding a second set of thumbwheels to the vintage correct posts would do. From my own experience doing this gives similar results as what I hear with the adapter bushings.
Another thing is what kind of wood is the doweling? On a abr gibson the 6/32 stud goes into maple (very hard wood) then some mahogany, most standard doweling is poplar, a softer hard wood, then depending on how tight the dowel is prob. a tad bit of glue.
I did the same thing in my standard Les Paul, where before I had the Faber adapters, honestly I didn't hear any substantial differences, I think the differences are more emotional than auditory but... maybe I'm wrong, however I like the fact that the pin is fixed directly into the wood 😊
I did this also to my SG Standard '61 Maestro. But I used a set of Kluson 4mm to 8mm adaptor posts. They screwed directly into the hole left buy the weird Nashville style inserts. No plugging or redrilling required. The ABR1 bridge then fit perfectly with hardly any movement or rattling after. Perfect for the Maestro vibrola.
Not only are you a great guitar player who really presents super comparisons on gear, speakers, pedals, etc. You really have it down! *SPECIAL NOTE: You really should make a solo music album, or possibly collaborate with other artists, virtually even! You are literally That Good OF A MUSICIAN, if you can Let Go of the Tech side of things! That said, I can see in your expression, that you showed concern (or uncertainty?) at the extra mass and EQ response of the Nashville, including the muddiness. Ha, you tell a lot through your reactions, in a good, natural, translative way. Beyond your normal comparison videos, I'm surprised that you went outside the box to Mod and "Luthier" for the ABR Posts! Nice work, and the stain worked well. Way to show how easy it can actually be. I do ABR-1 Posts for every LP, whenever required, because I'm a die hard vintage guy. Great Point on the EQ compensation, whether either way! I suppose if you were going for Mick Ronson or anything heavier, then Nashville will do it. But if you want Vintage Air and Acoustic Wood, then ABR Posts are the way to go. Great presentation, as always! Thank You!
Ever put some KT titanium saddles into an ABR-1 ? Maybe good to mask stuff off and use protection before the tools come out. Artist brush for the finish touchup? Anyhow, finished product sounds great.
It’s also worth noting that the only difference between that traditional studs and the adapter studs from Royal Mount is the quantity of metal on the lower portion. Both types are solid pieces of the same metal. There are other adapter studs that have separate thimbles and posts and as a result likely give a different result again.
My 19 classic modded vintage is a bright guitar overall. This is the only thing i havent gone after yet, the bridge was replaced but not with 4 uncles yet.
If anything I thought the one drilled into the wood sounded a little deader, I have guitars with the Nashville bridge, the true ABR-1 and the new Gibson ABR-1 that has insterts and none of my other guitars sustain like the new 60s Les Paul with the new ABR-1, but who knows if it’s the bridge, it can be a lot of things
I'm writing before watching your ending. I hear a more woody tone with the mod, more attack with the adapters. I can imagine wanting both sounds at the ready for different songs.
Hi Joe . It was a great video😅, I notice the sound with threads directly into the wood seem to have less hi mid/hi frequencies its as if the wood absorbed them. Maybe that's what a lot of Vintage player fans want .Take a look at Steve Morse,s guitar with the claw type anchor ,its got alot more surface area to allow a better resonance response giving you more Mid/highs. I did this particular mod to LTD Guitar with a AB type bridge and it sounds a lot brighter than the original through ferrole design. I suppose in the end it depends whichever way you like it. Best 👍 regards. John😊
I have some Tokai japan one es-168 it's the same as the es-335 from Gibson, and a les paul LS129 and they use abr1 with one screw durectly in the body of the guitar and the tunomatic are narrow too. I realy love these 2 guitars the sustain are really incredible nice video 👍
Did you notice a difference, couldn't tell over on our end, if there was any difference, maybe just slightly warmer sounding directly into the body, you tube sound test are hard.
IMHO it comes down to performance vs cost ratio, if you can afford it why not, if your cranking it out with another guitar, Bass, Drums at 100 db will you hear it? It does look cool though
I do hear a slight difference, but saying that I feel that we sort of get into the area of diminishing returns! But there we are, it did make a difference. Maybe a little more top end on the metal adapter, but nothing that an EQ can't fix!
Tone Ninjas have a similar adapter but they are 1 piece, the lower half meant to fill the the achor bore is threaded. You tap the anchor hole and screw the adapters in. Perhaps the same malodorous effect?? My ears are not golden enough to hear the difference--
I didn't think I would hear a difference, but damn. I really did. I wouldn't say the adapters killed your tone? Because it's definitely something you can maybe dial out. It's in the 5-6.5khz range. A tinny and more shrill sound. The posts directly into wood Definitely round out the sound a lot more and make it sound open lot more warm.
Good for you Joe. The difference to my ears through relatively balanced headphones is too subtle for the hype or indeed the purist admonishments regarding inserts or direct contact. Your playing and your '92 standard outshined it all anyway.
Perhaps a tad more brightness in the sound with the adapters? It's certainly not ruined the tone as far as I can hear. I would personally prefer the slight enhancement of the highs, if that's what it is, but it's very likely you're hearing more than I can through (fairly decent) headphones. If one or the other is changing the feel of it for you then adopt to direct-into-top/revert to adapters as you see fit. Not a game-changer here. Loverly LP!
Definitely could hear a difference and your thoughts are pretty much on the money. I can say there was a huge difference replacing the standard abr1 to the Faber with the adapters on my Heritage and it was all for the better. Quality of the metal likely matters as much as how you use it. Cheers!
I always search out steel blocks! Saddles & height adjustment steel screws. For all 16 of my strats ! Steel is the sustain & tone! Period. Doing the same on my chibsons. Steel tone & good pickups are the TONE.
It's super tempting to do this because it doesn't look like a huge job to do, but man... I can't honestly say I hear any difference. Although, doing it this way is cheaper than using the adapters.... I think I'll do it to both my main LPs.
That Four Uncles stuff is a tough sell -someone would need magic ears to really benefit from a $450 ABR-1 bridge and the conversion to threads into wood. I'm a Les Paul guy, but have no interest in recapturing every detail of '58-'60s bursts -R9 hardtail, a Nashville or ABR-1 that won't collapse (steel, probably), Axcess heel and cutaway, p-p phase, and I'm happy. Pickups TBD, as always :p
I was getting ready to buy one for my Historic R9 and was talked out of it by someone on the forums who bought one and told me that compared to a Faber ABR-1 it was not worth it. The Faber is only $80 and i already have one so he said save your money? I do like the Faber and have no real complaints about it. Faber's is better than the stock Gibson one. that one was very bright and harsh.
@@These_go_to_eleven_1959 I agree -both my LP bridges collapsed about 15 yrs ago, and I replaced one with a Gibson and the other with a Faber (both Nashville), and they're very good and a reasonable price. That's all I need -I can never tell a tonal difference in these tests (using ref monitors). For a kit guitar I bough a Chinese (Musiclilly) tune-o-matic bridge and tail, and it's pretty damn good too, for ~$25 for both (but metric)!
@@davidrees1840 Yeah for me the Faber is as good as it gets for a ABR-1 bridge. Funny thing is the guy who was in on the design of that Four uncles $450 bridge used a Faber for years before it came out!😂I think at some point this stuff becomes insane and i would rather just play my Guitar.
@@These_go_to_eleven_1959 Like Frank said "shut up and play your guitar!". I'm with you, but I do love videos of super-high-end products, like $1000 silver-wound pickups.
It may be erroneous to believe that string vibrations (with a relatively short "half life"/decay) can get that large solid body of wood (which is actually two or more pieces of wood) to sympathetically vibrate in any meaningful way, never mind enough to be audible... If anything the mounting systems tested exhibit not differences in transmission but more their resistance to same with feeds the harmonics back through the strings to the pickups... Or something like that 😉😎
Well, of course your bridge comparison video was not pointless due to the adaptors, of course not. I believe that Dave's reaction and critisism was exaggerated, however I do think he had a point. The tone difference is perceivable and that might not be significant enough for many. But if you go to such lengths to get vintage sound out of your LP, getting 600$ pickups, 200$ vintage spec wiring harness and a 400$ bridge (assuming you can even find one), then it makes a lot of sense to make a small modification in order to get 100% of your money's worth. If you look at it from Dave's perspective, those people spend years and fortunes researching and experimenting and tooling so that they can meticulously recreate something important. And then you come and half-ass it, I kind of understand it. Good comparison video though and ,more importantly, a video with answers to difficult questions.
Prefer the threads directly into wood. It's worth IMO if you are a tone chaser. Better to cut the dowels a bit short to avoid the risk of damaging the top.
Sounds to me like the thread into wood has more bass. Bassier always sounds better in a comparison. How about they just sell a wood adaptor! Simply glue it in and your set!
No hide glue? They make cold hide glue now, but hot is better. Makes me wonder if the longer bushings I use in my builds are messing with true vintage tone? Page is my only real influence that played a LP, just a F guy. I could hear the difference even with iPad speakers, but better? Ymmv and all that. The original has a metal sound.
You mean the linger tail piece bushings? I changed to vintage correct on those along with everything else (not at same time) everything wad an added benefit over stock 19 classic.
Good players sound good on anything they play, while players who aren't very good spend endless time cork sniffing for a better tone, which doesn't improve their playing. The good player on a cheap guitar would sound better than them playing a real 1959 Lester. Also, most of the old guitars weren't great, only a few of them were, according to knowledgable people. I find it ironic that the pristine old guitars go for more money, which the beat ones that are better instruments sell for much less.
That's an interesting perspective considering someone like Julian Lage invests an enormous amount of time and effort choosing and developing the right gear to get the exact tone he's looking for.
Nr. 1 most important thing is are you personally satisfied with the result? If so it is fine what ever it is. It’s not mandatory to tone chase same tone for everyone. If the tone of cheap Chibson is best for you, more power to you. Thing you make, workers out as you make it and gives result in combination with your guitar. It’s now guaranteed that it will result in the same way with the different parts so it is not the rule. Though for the given guitar it is all that matters actually. Now sound of electric guitar is such a complex thing. Everting does matter. Some things do improve the tone on some guitars for some people and their taste. Most of the people have internet knowledge but have never seen the burst in close let alone touched it or played it. Plus they all sound different as well. So what does it mean coming closer to it? How much closer is that? Though there are serious rules of tone. PRS him self has 21 rule of tone. And he knows his stuff plus he have had Ted sharing stuff with him. Now to the issues with the posts and bridges and hardware. High end boutique replicas of the hardware is made to bridge a few percent difference in sound on already amazing guitars. Sure it will improve the sound on any guitar, if you like the sound it gives you in the first place. But some guitars will never be able come close to that sound. Their construction limits them from coming as close. That might be rubber/plastic sleeve on the truss rod or wrong glue or multipart body or wrong wood. Simply said you can improve sound of Gibson USA LP Standard and it can sound really good, but it is not the good base for the replica of a real burst. And it doesn’t matter that it is not. Main thing it is good for you. So we are looking at improving your own sound. Not someone else’s sound. To your own taste and what you think your dream LP should sound like. There are many different adapters for ABR-1 bridges. Two main types. One that just screw in in the bushing and others that require you to remove the bushing and hammer them in. Second one give better results most of the time according to my personal reference of sound. From those second type once again you will find difference in materials and once that use proper soft brass tend to sound better. Properly installed such post adapters will leave less on the table compared to plugging in holes with maple. First type go from OK-ish adapters to nightmare. Gibson uses them on current Standard models as well. Issue is in the bushing itself and in the lose fit in some cases. I have plugged a few guitars and I have documented it years ago as well. I take care to make extremely tight fit and I match the wood grain as well. Most of the time I have used Titebond glue. Now someone might scream hide glue or even fish glue or what ever else. It does not matter on the guitar that have zero hide glue used on it. Titebond with proper figment will make really good and strong connection. You will not be able to hear the difference on such small amount of the glue with such guitar. Only thing is that you will need longer time to dry out completely. I would even say weeks until it is completely dry. It sounds better later as well. How much better? Extremely little better but still an improvement. In some guitars doing this increased sustain and made tone way better. To the point one could think it is a different guitar. More resonant and better sounding instrument. Other times it improved sound way less but it was better. Now you can ruin the result pretty easy and kill new found wood resonance by raising up the neck pickup especially if it has strong Alnico V magnet or God forbid ceramic magnet. This will just negate the improvement in wood. So every result you get is depending on every other thing done on the guitar. I can improve every guitar sound but I can’t say by how much until inspection of the actual guitar. I have improved cheap guitars and Murphy Lab guitars. You can improve everything. But rule of diminishing returns will kick much harder closer you get to the holly grail. Then you will pay a lot for Four Uncles bridge and posts as well as SD pickups P.A.F replicas, as well as the original CT Labs pots, real old Sprague bumblebee caps and vintage braided wire. So you find extremely good example of Murphy Lab R9 pay 11K and then invest a few thousands more for parts. What you get is closest to some original burst but you pay tons of money. Still way less than burst though. Looks matter as well than. People hear with eyes and money and beliefs. On the other side dude buys current Epiphone 1959 with Custombuckers for 1500 bucks and comes to me. I do buff the top. Lightly sand the back of the neck with highest grit sandpaper and eventually buff it depending on players preference. I do my bridge work. Change all the hardware. Change to my harness with caps and pots I use. I dismantle pickups and change their hook up wire as well. I do a fret job including best polishing I can do. Feed the fretboard and polish it as well. Put new set of Pure Blues strings on it. Then I set everything properly, taking time to get all it got. Suddenly in blind challenge it will be a competition to many Custom Shop guitars. It will never look right even with the new proper headstock shape. It will never feel like nitro finished guitar. It will never smell like real thing either. Top carve will stay so wrong. All the plastics will stay wrong. But it will sound and play great. One could go crazy and put some Sunbear PAF pickups and change the plastics as well. But that will cost like 700 bucks more. Better but we get diminishing returns again. There is no wrong choice. You do you. For someone the only way is the original. For someone it is a Chibson. And that is fine. No need to fight about someone else’s taste or how they spend money.
Well, listened to the clean about a half dozen times without watching which was which n absolutely could not tell when the switch was. more difference in strumming n picking than inserts.
Physics says that there more dense material, the better conductor of energy (vibrations) you have. That is the same case having a faster and better connectivity between two terminals is a cable than air wireless devices. Metals are better conductors than less dense wood. In this case you are using a lower density material to transfer the vibrations. The previous metal insert is better. If you like the sound of old inserts it is just a matter of personal taste.
If the Nashville had been the one mounted in the 50's and the ABR a later model, everyone would prefer it aesthetically and also claim it sounds better. I much prefer it, is a better engineering system. The tailpiece also has bushings and nobody asks in this case for a direct threaded contact with the wood.
I often wonder if that very subtle tone difference would be discerned by an audience 1/2 stoned our of their minds in an echo driven sports stadium with whoopie children yelping and whooping? Maybe not? However, these are the details keeping guitarists up at night...
Out of 4 gibsons I only have one with direct to wood abr and that one sounds twice as good as the others - it's also about 20 years older. On my other gibons I replace the stock nashville studs (steel) with brass aftermarket studs. Here's the deal from what I can tell : Direct to wood allows more timbre and harmonics. The second thing is brass vs steel. Steel passes more high frequency stuff which can sound 'metallic'. So if you have steel posts and steel saddles it will sound thinner and brighter. If you have direct to wood and brass saddles it will sound richer and warmer.
Not much difference between the tonal difference of slightly angling your guitar pick. Not even on purpose. A recording made with the exact setup with multiple takes will sound different thanks to the inconsistency of how we hold our picks. If you ever had to splice guitar takes together you should know what this is like.
If you want a fantastic Les Paul WITH a bridge that actually screws into the body , get an Edwards Les Paul 👍 My 59 replica has long neck tenon , mahogany body , mahogany neck , maple cap , absolutely amazing for the price imo 👍
Well Pots, wire, caps, that's all cool for vintage looks but really have little to no effect on tone. The bridge and studs can have some effect cause it transfers the string vibration to the body. In the real world it still is a large part looks. If you giged with it stock then modded, if blind folded even a guitar player couldn't say "oh thats more vintage sounding". Looks are cool, I have an R8 and have changed a couple small things to be more 58 correct. Absolutely ZERO affect on tone.
Do Nashville ABR-1 Adaptors Ruin Vintage Tone? Yes. Straight in the wood Is not so bright giving a vintage sound. I imagine some may prefer the brighter sound for a more "cut through the mix" lead part, but I did prefer the woodier sound personally. It's a good thing to blend in and be part of a sound, as if you're really part of the band and not some squealy side show.
Well I hope you make some money from this video but I don't think the tones are different. Someone did a video testing tube amps against some new solid state amps and had a so called expert with blindfold listen then tell them which was a tube amp, he was wrong mostly, he could not say which was a tube amp and which wasn't it was interesting. I think if you had not told everyone which was which nobody would have got it right.
The amount of illogical tribal "wisdom" surrounding the Les Paul bridge is both immense and dismaying. When it comes to sound, all of these bridge variables are so inconsequential that any PERCEIVED variation could easily be attributed to some OTHER variable. Your Four Uncles guy is pedaling snake oil.
Very little difference. If anything, the Nashville sounds better. Dave Stephens has spent hundreds of hours telling people online his pickups and bridges sound better than alternatives. Sound comparisons do not support his claims. By the way, I have an all-original (no mods) '59 Les Paul in my immediate family. I grew up playing it, and last played it through an amp only two weeks ago. The modern pickups which sound closest to the '59 are the OX4 low wind humbuckers. They sound virtually indistinguishable. (No, OX4 didn't pay me to type that; I bought my OX4s like anyone else. But I bought them because they sound the same as the PAFs in the '59).
Dave might be wrong in this instance conceptually, the contact points are the upper surfaces of the thumbwheels/ABR and the outermost edges of the post threads/ABR, BOTH tenuous transmission surfaces at best for any vibrations... BUT it may be those innocuous imperfections that in fact help make for the vintage sound overall...
Hi Joe, thanks for making this video. I would like to point out to your followers that I have not made any endorsements and that you actually purchased the Royal Mount 50 soft brass thumbwheels and posts kit. Regarding the adapters vs traditional posts test, there is one thing to consider: many adapter manufacturers make them in steel and not in soft brass or if they are in brass they are harder modern alloys with a very different resonance compared to soft brass. From my point of view, a guitar created with a Nashville bridge by switching to ABR-1 with soft brass adapters manages to get very close to the sound of a guitar created with the posts screwed directly into the wood. Obviously the mass of brass is different and the equalization compared to the traditional ABR-1 posts will be slightly different. But consider that soft brass manages to sweeten the high frequencies and manages to give more presence and "body" to the medium frequencies. The low frequencies are never muddy and the notes can be distinguished very well. As a final consideration, I would really like to talk to you about the soft brass that I use for Royal Mount because I believe I am the only one in the world who uses NOS (new old stock) bars that are at least 70 years old. I and many other guitarists have heard a notable difference between NOS soft brass and recent soft brass. Probably the way of making this alloy has changed over the years and this translates into a more distant sound compared to the sound of the "bursts" which are our point of reference. Thank you again for choosing Royal Mount and congratulations on the excellent work!
Thanks for all of your thoughts & the information. And yep - the Nashville adaptors. the plain threads & both sets of thumbwheels were all bought at full retail price on Reverb! :-)
Royal Mount, Great point on alloy and they're tonal responses! Always a critical element! I'll look at you offerings! Thanks
Never , ever apologise for nerding Perks , i love this channel
I did the whole ’59 thing to my 2016 Les Paul Traditional. It now has the Faber bridge with the screw-in stud inserts, Monty’s PAFs, 50s wiring and lightweight aluminium tailpiece. With a set of amber top-hats it now has that '59 look and I'm really pleased with the outcome. Tonally, the differences are mostly due to the pickups. Functionally, the Nashville is the better bridge. It has a wider intonation range, doesn't collapse over time and it could be argued that, due its greater mass, it has more sustain. These are definitive improvements, right? If the Nashville had come first the purists would now be complaining that the 'new' ABR-1 is cheap, flimsy and "ruins the vintage tone".
I've had many LPs over the years with both Nashville and ABR-1's, the most resonant guitars I would say were the Nashville variants, but I suspect nothing to do with the bridge on those particular guitars
Great point Kevin, just imagine if these "purists" spent as much time actually playing their instrument as they do fretting (pun intended) over all these nuances when touch, amplification, effects and yes pickups play such a huge part in the sonic character of the guitar.
@kevin. So true I often wonder if the Nashville came out first what the purest would think?! The owner of a big guitar store here in New Orleans owns a number of Gibsons and fenders from the 1950’s that I’ve had the privilege to be able to play. And they are unbelievable playing and sounding guitars. But people sometimes do get too caught up nailing the exact specs and I’ve found myself guilty of falling for the same nostalgia. But I’ve played many outstanding guitar’s from different eras and makers in my last 35 years of playing. A great guitar is a great guitar
I have also heard that Nashvilles do have more sustain vs the ABR Posts, good point!
You can't assume it's mostly the pickups unless you did them both separately.
Definitely could hear the difference and it was much bigger than I was expecting, I agree with your impression. The adaptors definitely added more metallic zing and fizz and straight into the wood is definitely smoother and more pleasant to my ears. Thank you for always doing way too much work to compare super subtle things that most people don’t really care about, I really appreciate your videos!
I’m also hearing the slight increase in highs and upper mids with the adapter studs vs. the treaded studs. I know it’s heresy, but I kind of preferred it in the specific clips I heard, but you’re absolutely right that it could be likely be eq’d one way or another on the amp with pretty similar effects.
Did you notice a difference in resonance vs. the stock Nashville setup? I see people say the Faber conversion studs say their guitars were noticeably louder with the conversion studs, but I haven’t seen many from sources I trust as much as your channel. Thanks for the video!
Just the video I was looking for! Thanks for doing the work and sharing. I think you took that guitar up a notch for sure. This definitely made me feel more open to buying a Nashville style and converting.
If there is a difference, it's so subtle that modifying a guitar doesn't seem worth the hassle
TH-cam compression is eating it before you can hear it. Also, he's playing chords - overlapping notes. You can hear it best playing single notes, but it is a subtle thing.
Now ur talkin'
That's a false assumption. I've had this go two different ways.
🙏 nice one for actually deep diving on this idea Joe! I’ve been emotionally torn about this subject for a while. I want to love the old school build and sound but at the end of the day in my situation (and in this video) the Nashville bridge is always more well rounded and balanced across all 6 strings no mater what the guitar (which avoids needing to process the sound as much - pedal or post amp outboard in a studio setting) I think when the guitar is amazing it doesn’t matter at all what’s going on spec wise. But in general the Nashville situation seems to be stronger and more consistent sonically especially in a band live or studio setting, the pokiness of an abr1 is something to bare witness too, but by lord do you need to be a great player to make the most of that old tech, it’s more raw - but unfortunately people lack the skills to pull off the old stuff like musicians used too… anyway great video, all the best man appreciate ya! (I totally agree with you btw haha) 🙌
You made an interesting comment about a sizzle-type sound (16:23). I have a Yamaha and aftermarket Les Paul with Nashville-style adapters. When I changed the bridges for a Wilkinson bridge, the notes didn't ring like a bell, or individually as they did with the original bridges, but the notes started to phase together until they literally choked and cancelled each other out. I originally also described it as "fizzling" as that is what it sounded like before the notes choked out. I was just wondering whether that was what you experienced?
Joe, I appreciate your commitment to guitar nerdery and tonal experiments. I'm always impressed with your ability to play the same thing twice so accurately for comparisons - something I'm rubbish at! I agree that straight into the wood does sound more woody and the adapters do sound brighter. A small change, or inaudible change even, for most people, probably, but the kind of thing that makes a massive difference to those of us obsessed with tone and chasing sound who are kept up at night by this kind of thing 😂
I've seen the previous video and it was a brilliant one. I saw the comments and didn't expect such a pro-level reaction, bravo! This video is excellent!
Thanks mate - glad you liked it!
Interesting video, thank you! But You skipped the part that I wanted to see...how did you install the threaded...threads directly on the wood? Are they threaded all the long? how did you do it? Because I'm thinking about doing the same thing. And...did you notice problems on intonation? because if you install them a little offset, you may run out of length on the saddles to intonate...I would really like to know about theses things. Thanks anyway for posting it!!
I thought the difference was quite obvious! The adapters seem to add another layer of metallic top tones, while the straight in the wood approach yielded a more pure, less complex tone with added low mids. Big change imo.
I used the conversion studs in an Orville by Gibson. I agree.
Interesting. I put a Faber ABR/Posts in a 90s LP Custom to 50fy it and am very happy - don't think I'll get the dowels and wood glue out after watching this. But I do think the screwed into wood sound is a bit tighter and less toppy (mostly but not always a good thing!). Very grateful for the comparison. It's nice having the look of an ABR but it was the OX4 pick ups that unsurprisingly made the biggest difference. Do you think the ThroBak's are worth the premium? Your LP mod videos have given great insight. Thanks.
I appreciate you asking the question. It's one that I was curious about. Thanks for the comparison. The Nashville has a bit more top end to my ears. At a live gig though,the difference probably wouldn't be noticed,but for sure the Nashville would cut through the mix better.That said ,with a tad of EQ,they would sound the same live.So,I'll keep my Nashville bridge on my Les Paul. Great video Joe 🤝
Man! This is an Outstanding video! (No problem at all here about its length) You did a great Job.. I dont konw how many outhere wolud mod their 92 "Good wood" LP to full test adaptors!..and Yes I appreciate the Royal Mount product too! ❤❤ Well Done Boys Well Done! Keep on Rocking!
I agree with your assessment. You can EQ this tone change easily with your amp, and as soon as you put any gain in the mix the difference disappears. Thanks for doing this so I don't have to. :D
The adapter tone is more pokey and spikey to the ears where as the Post's going into the wood are more focused and warm. I prefer the post's into the wood tone.
It's a lot more subtle than I was expecting but its definitely there
Thank you very much for the very helpful video. I actually did my own a/b test with my Nashville to Faber upgrade and considered installing dowels as well. Looks as if it's easier to tweak an EQ to come very close. Given there's a drummer nearby who ruins the subtle tone changes of my abr-1 bridge efforts anyway.
Ha Ha, drummers! LOL, good point though!
I have a LP Studio with a Nashville bridge. I bought a Gotoh Abr type bridge and the studs are too thin for the stock thread on the studio. I bought a Faber m4 to m5 converter, seeing that the Gotoh has m4 screws and the stock bridge has m5 screws. I hope it turns out good, because i was soo excited to upgrade my guitar, i also bought an aged brass tailpiece that looks awesome.The gotoh bridge is also aged and looks cool.
Hi, and first, thanks for doing the work for this experiment.
So to my ears, on my Samsung S11+ phone speakers, studs directly into the wood dulled the tone ever so slightly and with the adaptor inserts it sounds slightly brighter and more sustainy? If that's a word...
Over all if I had no idea there was a change I wouldn't have noticed a difference.
I will like to listen on quality speakers and see if I still conclude the same.
Dean Richards
Huge difference, thanks!
@JoePerkinsMusic
First off Joe thank you for all the effort/work that you did to make this comparison as accurate as possible.
As far as the tonal differences, I think your descriptions are pretty accurate, and I agree with you (and some other posts here) that the differences in both this video and your previous bridge comparison video are kind of negligible (especially between the Farber and the 4 Uncles), and some Amp tweaks and more practice would probably do more for your sound then the bridge change.
However if you are not specifically going for an accurate replica of an original Gibson ABR-1 bridge, I personally have changed mine to Farber's Tone-Lock ABR-1 Bridge and TP-’59 Tailpiece with Spacers, which I really like and I think sounds very good, and actually fit better/tighter than Gibson's with less play.
My motivation however was not just from a "tone" perspective, but more because of the better designed locking hardware IMO, so that string changes are a breeze without the Bridge or Tailpiece falling off.
Rather then using a small set screw (with a pinpoint holding your bridge in place) and having to search for a set screw tool to make your bridge adjustments, it's easy to access the large locking nuts straight down from the top of the bridge to secure it.
Regarding the Tailpiece, it is also a way superior design IMHO that allows you to get the effect of "top wrapping" and flooring the Tailpiece against the guitar (which many believe also effects your tone), without causing the other possibly negative effects of adding extra string length (caused by wrapping the strings), having to add extra string end nuts to prevent the twisted end of the strings from extending past the Tailpiece, scratching up the finish on the top of your Tailpiece, and avoiding putting too much pressure on the Bridge from excessive string angle (so it doesn't collapse the bridge).
Essentially, the Tailpiece can be adjusted to the proper height needed (to keep the strings off the back of the bridge at any chosen angle) while still having the Tailpiece metal directly touching down to the guitar by using of the tailpiece Spacers (which lock down against the metal bushings and the wood body of the guitar).
Lastly, they are reasonably priced well made and brass coated.
I have no affiliation with Farber...these are just my observations and opinions.
Dave might be wrong in this instance conceptually, the contact points are the upper surfaces of the thumbwheels/ABR and the outermost edges of the post threads/ABR, BOTH tenuous transmission surfaces at best for any vibrations...
BUT it may be those innocuous imperfections that in fact help make for the vintage sound overall...
Did you get the brass post's and thumbwheels? I am assuming Royal Mount does the vintage correct parts?
Yep, all vintage-correct Soft Brass :-)
Great video. Are those adaptors the ones made by Faber out of brass, Joe?
They're the Royal Mount adaptors - but they are indeed Soft Brass; very similar to the Fabers! :-)
I have a 2001 LP Studio that I've had for almost 20 years now, and a 2018 '58 reissue LP I've had for about 6 months. Even just acoustically, the '58 reissue is brighter, clearer, and louder sounding than the Studio, and I think the bridge + studs have a lot to do with that.
There are two other things that I think significantly contribute to the acoustic differences. For one, the finish thickness on the Studio is definitely a little thicker, which dampens the sound a bit. For two, I suspect the Studio has the "rocker" neck joint, which is not a very tight joint and robs the guitar of some resonance. It's still a great guitar, but definitely different than the reissue.
Love seeing your comparison videos, Joe. I can tell lots of work and care goes into these!!
I have a 2001 LP standard. That’s an amazing sounding guitar. It had the typical Gibson Nashville style bridge but I did put an aluminum one with titanium saddles and it definitely sounds brighter, even louder acoustically. I also put wcr pickups and vintage bumblebee caps and it sounds insane!! It has a chirp to it when played clean and has that cool honk a LP should have with some overdrive. Only thing I don’t like about it is it’s fairly heavy
Did you do a video comparing the Throbak's to the stock P'ups?
Afraid not
VERY WELL DONE VIDEO. In my ears the difference is very slight, especially playing chords. Being in the room might make it more discernible for sure. In a mix the difference might not matter much.
Neat experiment though. I’m sure everyone appreciates you doing this - MANY LP owners have been curious about the claim. It might differ between guitars so...
Your LP sounds GREAT either way. Great playing BTW - really clean.
There is a difference though I couldn’t say one is better than the other.
It would be interesting to hear what adding a second set of thumbwheels to the vintage correct posts would do. From my own experience doing this gives similar results as what I hear with the adapter bushings.
Another thing is what kind of wood is the doweling? On a abr gibson the 6/32 stud goes into maple (very hard wood) then some mahogany, most standard doweling is poplar, a softer hard wood, then depending on how tight the dowel is prob. a tad bit of glue.
Hard wood maple 👍
@@JoePerkinsMusic Cool, I'm gonna have to find some. Was it bought that way or did you make the dowling from a piece of maple?
Great video.
I did the same thing in my standard Les Paul, where before I had the Faber adapters, honestly I didn't hear any substantial differences, I think the differences are more emotional than auditory but... maybe I'm wrong, however I like the fact that the pin is fixed directly into the wood 😊
I did this also to my SG Standard '61 Maestro. But I used a set of Kluson 4mm to 8mm adaptor posts. They screwed directly into the hole left buy the weird Nashville style inserts. No plugging or redrilling required. The ABR1 bridge then fit perfectly with hardly any movement or rattling after. Perfect for the Maestro vibrola.
This was more a comparison of using any adaptors vs the threads going straight into the wood (like the 50s guitars).
Not only are you a great guitar player who really presents super comparisons on gear, speakers, pedals, etc. You really have it down! *SPECIAL NOTE: You really should make a solo music album, or possibly collaborate with other artists, virtually even! You are literally That Good OF A MUSICIAN, if you can Let Go of the Tech side of things!
That said, I can see in your expression, that you showed concern (or uncertainty?) at the extra mass and EQ response of the Nashville, including the muddiness. Ha, you tell a lot through your reactions, in a good, natural, translative way.
Beyond your normal comparison videos, I'm surprised that you went outside the box to Mod and "Luthier" for the ABR Posts! Nice work, and the stain worked well. Way to show how easy it can actually be.
I do ABR-1 Posts for every LP, whenever required, because I'm a die hard vintage guy.
Great Point on the EQ compensation, whether either way! I suppose if you were going for Mick Ronson or anything heavier, then Nashville will do it. But if you want Vintage Air and Acoustic Wood, then ABR Posts are the way to go.
Great presentation, as always! Thank You!
Hey Joe! Do you think the percentage diffrence between the Nashville to the ABR is the same percentage between the adapters and the threads into wood?
Ever put some KT titanium saddles into an ABR-1 ? Maybe good to mask stuff off and use protection before the tools come out. Artist brush for the finish touchup? Anyhow, finished product sounds great.
It’s also worth noting that the only difference between that traditional studs and the adapter studs from Royal Mount is the quantity of metal on the lower portion.
Both types are solid pieces of the same metal. There are other adapter studs that have separate thimbles and posts and as a result likely give a different result again.
My 19 classic modded vintage is a bright guitar overall. This is the only thing i havent gone after yet, the bridge was replaced but not with 4 uncles yet.
If anything I thought the one drilled into the wood sounded a little deader, I have guitars with the Nashville bridge, the true ABR-1 and the new Gibson ABR-1 that has insterts and none of my other guitars sustain like the new 60s Les Paul with the new ABR-1, but who knows if it’s the bridge, it can be a lot of things
I'm writing before watching your ending. I hear a more woody tone with the mod, more attack with the adapters. I can imagine wanting both sounds at the ready for different songs.
Hi Joe . It was a great video😅, I notice the sound with threads directly into the wood seem to have less hi mid/hi frequencies its as if the wood absorbed them. Maybe that's what a lot of Vintage player fans want .Take a look at Steve Morse,s guitar with the claw type anchor ,its got alot more surface area to allow a better resonance response giving you more Mid/highs. I did this particular mod to LTD Guitar with a AB type bridge and it sounds a lot brighter than the original through ferrole design. I suppose in the end it depends whichever way you like it. Best 👍 regards. John😊
I have some Tokai japan one es-168 it's the same as the es-335 from Gibson, and a les paul LS129 and they use abr1 with one screw durectly in the body of the guitar and the tunomatic are narrow too. I realy love these 2 guitars the sustain are really incredible nice video 👍
Did you notice a difference, couldn't tell over on our end, if there was any difference, maybe just slightly warmer sounding directly into the body, you tube sound test are hard.
Conclusion at 15:01 👍
Massive difference!
IMHO it comes down to performance vs cost ratio, if you can afford it why not, if your cranking it out with another guitar, Bass, Drums at 100 db will you hear it? It does look cool though
I do hear a slight difference, but saying that I feel that we sort of get into the area of diminishing returns! But there we are, it did make a difference. Maybe a little more top end on the metal adapter, but nothing that an EQ can't fix!
Tone Ninjas have a similar adapter but they are 1 piece, the lower half meant to fill the the achor bore is threaded. You tap the anchor hole and screw the adapters in. Perhaps the same malodorous effect?? My ears are not golden enough to hear the difference--
Yeah I tried this experiment myself and found the same. Into wood all the way for vintage tone anyway.
I didn't think I would hear a difference, but damn. I really did. I wouldn't say the adapters killed your tone? Because it's definitely something you can maybe dial out. It's in the 5-6.5khz range. A tinny and more shrill sound. The posts directly into wood Definitely round out the sound a lot more and make it sound open lot more warm.
Good for you Joe. The difference to my ears through relatively balanced headphones is too subtle for the hype or indeed the purist admonishments regarding inserts or direct contact. Your playing and your '92 standard outshined it all anyway.
Perhaps a tad more brightness in the sound with the adapters? It's certainly not ruined the tone as far as I can hear. I would personally prefer the slight enhancement of the highs, if that's what it is, but it's very likely you're hearing more than I can through (fairly decent) headphones. If one or the other is changing the feel of it for you then adopt to direct-into-top/revert to adapters as you see fit. Not a game-changer here. Loverly LP!
thank you and well done
Definitely could hear a difference and your thoughts are pretty much on the money. I can say there was a huge difference replacing the standard abr1 to the Faber with the adapters on my Heritage and it was all for the better. Quality of the metal likely matters as much as how you use it. Cheers!
Thank you for your input. I will try changing mine also to a Faber.
I always search out steel blocks! Saddles & height adjustment steel screws. For all 16 of my strats ! Steel is the sustain & tone! Period. Doing the same on my chibsons. Steel tone & good pickups are the TONE.
It's super tempting to do this because it doesn't look like a huge job to do, but man... I can't honestly say I hear any difference.
Although, doing it this way is cheaper than using the adapters.... I think I'll do it to both my main LPs.
Any settings on the app negate the guitar differences with any effects whatsoever
...which is why the amp settings didn't change. :-)
That Four Uncles stuff is a tough sell -someone would need magic ears to really benefit from a $450 ABR-1 bridge and the conversion to threads into wood. I'm a Les Paul guy, but have no interest in recapturing every detail of '58-'60s bursts -R9 hardtail, a Nashville or ABR-1 that won't collapse (steel, probably), Axcess heel and cutaway, p-p phase, and I'm happy. Pickups TBD, as always :p
I was getting ready to buy one for my Historic R9 and was talked out of it by someone on the forums who bought one and told me that compared to a Faber ABR-1 it was not worth it. The Faber is only $80 and i already have one so he said save your money? I do like the Faber and have no real complaints about it. Faber's is better than the stock Gibson one. that one was very bright and harsh.
@@These_go_to_eleven_1959 I agree -both my LP bridges collapsed about 15 yrs ago, and I replaced one with a Gibson and the other with a Faber (both Nashville), and they're very good and a reasonable price. That's all I need -I can never tell a tonal difference in these tests (using ref monitors). For a kit guitar I bough a Chinese (Musiclilly) tune-o-matic bridge and tail, and it's pretty damn good too, for ~$25 for both (but metric)!
@@davidrees1840 Yeah for me the Faber is as good as it gets for a ABR-1 bridge. Funny thing is the guy who was in on the design of that Four uncles $450 bridge used a Faber for years before it came out!😂I think at some point this stuff becomes insane and i would rather just play my Guitar.
@@These_go_to_eleven_1959 Like Frank said "shut up and play your guitar!". I'm with you, but I do love videos of super-high-end products, like $1000 silver-wound pickups.
@@davidrees1840 👍
That’s actually a drastic difference. This video has convinced me to do the same thing to my guitar. Thank you
Some frequencies just sounds better with original abr-1. 👍👍🍺
i've done this. its not worthy it in terms of tone but if you like it better this way, thats super valid!
It may be erroneous to believe that string vibrations (with a relatively short "half life"/decay) can get that large solid body of wood (which is actually two or more pieces of wood) to sympathetically vibrate in any meaningful way, never mind enough to be audible...
If anything the mounting systems tested exhibit not differences in transmission but more their resistance to same with feeds the harmonics back through the strings to the pickups...
Or something like that 😉😎
Well, of course your bridge comparison video was not pointless due to the adaptors, of course not.
I believe that Dave's reaction and critisism was exaggerated, however I do think he had a point.
The tone difference is perceivable and that might not be significant enough for many.
But if you go to such lengths to get vintage sound out of your LP, getting 600$ pickups, 200$ vintage spec wiring harness and a 400$ bridge (assuming you can even find one), then it makes a lot of sense to make a small modification in order to get 100% of your money's worth.
If you look at it from Dave's perspective, those people spend years and fortunes researching and experimenting and tooling so that they can meticulously recreate something important. And then you come and half-ass it, I kind of understand it.
Good comparison video though and ,more importantly, a video with answers to difficult questions.
given a choice, I prefer the wood - but as you say, it's not night and day
Prefer the threads directly into wood. It's worth IMO if you are a tone chaser. Better to cut the dowels a bit short to avoid the risk of damaging the top.
Didn't hear any drastic differences
Sounded the same.
@@dwaynemcallister7231 probably yes
Night and day
Sounds to me like the thread into wood has more bass. Bassier always sounds better in a comparison. How about they just sell a wood adaptor! Simply glue it in and your set!
I hear a great difference.
No hide glue? They make cold hide glue now, but hot is better. Makes me wonder if the longer bushings I use in my builds are messing with true vintage tone? Page is my only real influence that played a LP, just a F guy. I could hear the difference even with iPad speakers, but better? Ymmv and all that. The original has a metal sound.
You mean the linger tail piece bushings? I changed to vintage correct on those along with everything else (not at same time) everything wad an added benefit over stock 19 classic.
Good players sound good on anything they play, while players who aren't very good spend endless time cork sniffing for a better tone, which doesn't improve their playing. The good player on a cheap guitar would sound better than them playing a real 1959 Lester. Also, most of the old guitars weren't great, only a few of them were, according to knowledgable people. I find it ironic that the pristine old guitars go for more money, which the beat ones that are better instruments sell for much less.
That's an interesting perspective considering someone like Julian Lage invests an enormous amount of time and effort choosing and developing the right gear to get the exact tone he's looking for.
Nr. 1 most important thing is are you personally satisfied with the result? If so it is fine what ever it is.
It’s not mandatory to tone chase same tone for everyone. If the tone of cheap Chibson is best for you, more power to you.
Thing you make, workers out as you make it and gives result in combination with your guitar. It’s now guaranteed that it will result in the same way with the different parts so it is not the rule. Though for the given guitar it is all that matters actually.
Now sound of electric guitar is such a complex thing. Everting does matter. Some things do improve the tone on some guitars for some people and their taste. Most of the people have internet knowledge but have never seen the burst in close let alone touched it or played it. Plus they all sound different as well. So what does it mean coming closer to it? How much closer is that?
Though there are serious rules of tone. PRS him self has 21 rule of tone. And he knows his stuff plus he have had Ted sharing stuff with him.
Now to the issues with the posts and bridges and hardware.
High end boutique replicas of the hardware is made to bridge a few percent difference in sound on already amazing guitars. Sure it will improve the sound on any guitar, if you like the sound it gives you in the first place. But some guitars will never be able come close to that sound. Their construction limits them from coming as close. That might be rubber/plastic sleeve on the truss rod or wrong glue or multipart body or wrong wood. Simply said you can improve sound of Gibson USA LP Standard and it can sound really good, but it is not the good base for the replica of a real burst. And it doesn’t matter that it is not. Main thing it is good for you.
So we are looking at improving your own sound. Not someone else’s sound. To your own taste and what you think your dream LP should sound like.
There are many different adapters for ABR-1 bridges. Two main types. One that just screw in in the bushing and others that require you to remove the bushing and hammer them in. Second one give better results most of the time according to my personal reference of sound. From those second type once again you will find difference in materials and once that use proper soft brass tend to sound better. Properly installed such post adapters will leave less on the table compared to plugging in holes with maple. First type go from OK-ish adapters to nightmare. Gibson uses them on current Standard models as well.
Issue is in the bushing itself and in the lose fit in some cases.
I have plugged a few guitars and I have documented it years ago as well. I take care to make extremely tight fit and I match the wood grain as well. Most of the time I have used Titebond glue. Now someone might scream hide glue or even fish glue or what ever else. It does not matter on the guitar that have zero hide glue used on it. Titebond with proper figment will make really good and strong connection. You will not be able to hear the difference on such small amount of the glue with such guitar.
Only thing is that you will need longer time to dry out completely. I would even say weeks until it is completely dry. It sounds better later as well. How much better? Extremely little better but still an improvement.
In some guitars doing this increased sustain and made tone way better. To the point one could think it is a different guitar. More resonant and better sounding instrument.
Other times it improved sound way less but it was better.
Now you can ruin the result pretty easy and kill new found wood resonance by raising up the neck pickup especially if it has strong Alnico V magnet or God forbid ceramic magnet. This will just negate the improvement in wood.
So every result you get is depending on every other thing done on the guitar.
I can improve every guitar sound but I can’t say by how much until inspection of the actual guitar.
I have improved cheap guitars and Murphy Lab guitars. You can improve everything.
But rule of diminishing returns will kick much harder closer you get to the holly grail. Then you will pay a lot for Four Uncles bridge and posts as well as SD pickups P.A.F replicas, as well as the original CT Labs pots, real old Sprague bumblebee caps and vintage braided wire. So you find extremely good example of Murphy Lab R9 pay 11K and then invest a few thousands more for parts. What you get is closest to some original burst but you pay tons of money. Still way less than burst though.
Looks matter as well than. People hear with eyes and money and beliefs.
On the other side dude buys current Epiphone 1959 with Custombuckers for 1500 bucks and comes to me. I do buff the top. Lightly sand the back of the neck with highest grit sandpaper and eventually buff it depending on players preference. I do my bridge work. Change all the hardware. Change to my harness with caps and pots I use. I dismantle pickups and change their hook up wire as well. I do a fret job including best polishing I can do. Feed the fretboard and polish it as well. Put new set of Pure Blues strings on it. Then I set everything properly, taking time to get all it got. Suddenly in blind challenge it will be a competition to many Custom Shop guitars. It will never look right even with the new proper headstock shape. It will never feel like nitro finished guitar. It will never smell like real thing either. Top carve will stay so wrong. All the plastics will stay wrong. But it will sound and play great.
One could go crazy and put some Sunbear PAF pickups and change the plastics as well. But that will cost like 700 bucks more. Better but we get diminishing returns again.
There is no wrong choice. You do you. For someone the only way is the original. For someone it is a Chibson. And that is fine. No need to fight about someone else’s taste or how they spend money.
Exactly - there is no 'best', just personal preference. :)
The abr 1 is soaking the body differently thus it sounds softer than the nashville
Well, listened to the clean about a half dozen times without watching which was which n absolutely could not tell when the switch was. more difference in strumming n picking than inserts.
Physics says that there more dense material, the better conductor of energy (vibrations) you have.
That is the same case having a faster and better connectivity between two terminals is a cable than air wireless devices.
Metals are better conductors than less dense wood.
In this case you are using a lower density material to transfer the vibrations.
The previous metal insert is better. If you like the sound of old inserts it is just a matter of personal taste.
If the Nashville had been the one mounted in the 50's and the ABR a later model, everyone would prefer it aesthetically and also claim it sounds better. I much prefer it, is a better engineering system. The tailpiece also has bushings and nobody asks in this case for a direct threaded contact with the wood.
I often wonder if that very subtle tone difference would be discerned by an audience 1/2 stoned our of their minds in an echo driven sports stadium with whoopie children yelping and whooping?
Maybe not?
However, these are the details keeping guitarists up at night...
Out of 4 gibsons I only have one with direct to wood abr and that one sounds twice as good as the others - it's also about 20 years older.
On my other gibons I replace the stock nashville studs (steel) with brass aftermarket studs.
Here's the deal from what I can tell : Direct to wood allows more timbre and harmonics. The second thing is brass vs steel. Steel passes more high frequency stuff which can sound 'metallic'. So if you have steel posts and steel saddles it will sound thinner and brighter. If you have direct to wood and brass saddles it will sound richer and warmer.
Not much difference between the tonal difference of slightly angling your guitar pick. Not even on purpose. A recording made with the exact setup with multiple takes will sound different thanks to the inconsistency of how we hold our picks. If you ever had to splice guitar takes together you should know what this is like.
If you want a fantastic Les Paul WITH a bridge that actually screws into the body , get an Edwards Les Paul 👍 My 59 replica has long neck tenon , mahogany body , mahogany neck , maple cap , absolutely amazing for the price imo 👍
Well Pots, wire, caps, that's all cool for vintage looks but really have little to no effect on tone. The bridge and studs can have some effect cause it transfers the string vibration to the body. In the real world it still is a large part looks. If you giged with it stock then modded, if blind folded even a guitar player couldn't say "oh thats more vintage sounding". Looks are cool, I have an R8 and have changed a couple small things to be more 58 correct. Absolutely ZERO affect on tone.
well, that Dave 4th uncle sounds like a knob, so lost my business. way to go Dave.
Do Nashville ABR-1 Adaptors Ruin Vintage Tone? Yes. Straight in the wood Is not so bright giving a vintage sound. I imagine some may prefer the brighter sound for a more "cut through the mix" lead part, but I did prefer the woodier sound personally. It's a good thing to blend in and be part of a sound, as if you're really part of the band and not some squealy side show.
It’s my hands…
I feel attacked by your splash screen. What was this about nothing digital?? HMMM??
Or just get a decent eq pedal & use it sparingly 🤘🏼
Well I hope you make some money from this video but I don't think the tones are different. Someone did a video testing tube amps against some new solid state amps and had a so called expert with blindfold listen then tell them which was a tube amp, he was wrong mostly, he could not say which was a tube amp and which wasn't it was interesting. I think if you had not told everyone which was which nobody would have got it right.
the dowel steals tone.
Not much difference to me.
The amount of illogical tribal "wisdom" surrounding the Les Paul bridge is both immense and dismaying. When it comes to sound, all of these bridge variables are so inconsequential that any PERCEIVED variation could easily be attributed to some OTHER variable. Your Four Uncles guy is pedaling snake oil.
Man don`t use amp play acustic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no wire no power to see the deferance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's an Electric guitar, pal...
Very little difference. If anything, the Nashville sounds better.
Dave Stephens has spent hundreds of hours telling people online his pickups and bridges sound better than alternatives. Sound comparisons do not support his claims.
By the way, I have an all-original (no mods) '59 Les Paul in my immediate family. I grew up playing it, and last played it through an amp only two weeks ago.
The modern pickups which sound closest to the '59 are the OX4 low wind humbuckers. They sound virtually indistinguishable.
(No, OX4 didn't pay me to type that; I bought my OX4s like anyone else. But I bought them because they sound the same as the PAFs in the '59).
Dave might be wrong in this instance conceptually, the contact points are the upper surfaces of the thumbwheels/ABR and the outermost edges of the post threads/ABR, BOTH tenuous transmission surfaces at best for any vibrations...
BUT it may be those innocuous imperfections that in fact help make for the vintage sound overall...