Why Is Sony Suing Quad9?
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⏱️ Timestamps ⏱️
00:00 Why is Sony Suing Quad9
01:11 What you can do to help - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Quad9, Cloudflare, and Google should band together and agree to not resolve any PlayStation services DNS queries until this gets resolved.
That'd bring a different suit though- one about corporate damages and loss of revenue, I believe. It'd only embolden Sony to then say DNS is too critical to let "unsupervised" companies control it.
@@50KALKILLER Sony is welcome to run their own DNS.
I'd just be curious how long they could survive without DNS resolving to any of their properties. What do you think will resolve things quicker? The matter to run it's way through the courts? Or investor impatience at several quarters of consecutive losses.
What if instead of blocking they figure out how to introduce extra latency into the resolution. Not sure how that’s technically possible other than bouncing them around their DC stack a few times or something like that.
Don’t block them outright, but slow them to the point of near failure.
@@popejohnny5 Just return NXDOMAIN 9 queries out of 10 and claim it's a temporary technical malfunction caused by Sony's lawsuit. Because Sony apparently wants their domain filtered, it makes it sometimes take an unpredictable amount of failures before their website actually can be reached.
@@50KALKILLER I don't see a legal problem in blocking Sony's domains. The big DNS companies are private companies after all.
Suing a DNS provider is the same as suing Google Maps for showing you the way to a crack house
It is not the same.
@@MR-vj8dn I don't see why not. Would you sue yellow pages for giving you the phone number for a dodgy plumber?
@@elminster8149 I bet he doesn’t even know what the yellow pages are
Keeping the "wants" of a corporation such as Sony out of how the internet works is a worthy cause. I had forgotten about this, kudos for posting a quick update!
Donated.
My "screw Sony" moment happened a decade ago. We used to stream from my PC to our Sony TV over DLNA. One day, audio from certain shows would cut out a few minutes into the program. Turns out Sony had the TV "fingerprinting" the audio, and when it found content from a Sony property, it would cut the audio. The TV was disconnected from the internet once we figured that out, and hasn't been connected since.
Wow 😧 I'm glad the only product from Sony that I have is a pair of headphones.
The equivalent of this lawsuit in the 80's would be Sony suing the Yellow Pages.
The Yellow Pages?
@@ShainAndrews Okay zoomer.
Since they are a non-profit, that should permit larger DNS providers to donate, since this sets a terrible precedence which affects them too.
We would like to see that as well, as we believe the risks are significant for the entire DNS community as well as others such as firewall software vendors, anti-virus systems, and even browsers with safe browsing lists.
@@quad9dns374 Very correct: this could become quite broad - imagine the publishers of dictionaries : they should remove the words used by those domains 😢
Ones business structure matters nothing.
@@quad9dns374 glad to see your channel active in the comments. Added some of your vids to my queue and just watched your press release video about the move to Switzerland. (+1)
+1 sub and hope others here visit your channel and increase the voice you have on YT. I'll also visit you on reddit, github, LinkedIn and anywhere else I think of that amplifies your messaging.
@@ShainAndrews indeed exactly as German laws matter nothing in other countries. the only other one I can think of is the pii data restrictions but I could be completely missing something.
Let's also remember that this is the same Sony that deliberately installed rootkits on PCs just in case you might make a copy of the CD you were playing. And then bricked systems instead of removing said rootkit.
This is the reason I don't buy anything Sony unless there is no other option.
their goal is to give no other option
Thank you Tom for spreading awareness!
Just donated to Quad9!
SCREW Sony!!
greetings from germany
Thanks for the donation - every bit helps.
Thanks for posting this, Tom. I use Quad9 DNS and had no idea this Sony thing was going on. I donated and was very happy to be able to help. Such a BS lawsuit if there ever was one.
When I was a young kid, Sony was a brand of TV & sound system your wealthy school friends had
Now they make me think of rootkits and lawyers
Minidisc sales have been in a slump for about forever.
The entire internet community, DNS providers, etc should immediately delete all Sony IP resolutions and block them from root server adoption.
Sony can run their own DNS servers worldwide and have people opt into using those DNS servers with the understanding that Sony is attempting to seek control of website access for everyone worldwide.
I can't donate, but I can help spread the word. This is rather terrifying if Sony manages to lawyer / money muscle their way into a precedence in their favor in this area. Thanks for raising the awareness Quad9 and Lawrence Systems!
I’m still pissed about Sony installing a rootkit on my computer in 2005.
What is even more concerning is Sony coming after me for resolving my own DNS using Pi-Hole & Unbound. Technically I could fall in the same category for resolving onto a site Sony didn’t want me to.
I have appreciated Quad 9 since I discovered them. I have donated to the cause. Thanks for letting us know.
Thanks for the donation!
Google, Cloudflare etc.. should all band together to help quad9
Google? they like censorship and spying on it's users.
So.. sue the gun manufacturer for the murderer pulling the trigger... I swear I've heard this somewhere before
This is more analogous to the doorman letting killer into a public place
You've heard this weird liberal logic too?
Imo it’s more analogous to placing street signs. Whatever happens in those streets is not your business.
@@VoyivodaFTW1 like the DC police led Antifa to the Capitol building to attack it ?
I use Quad9 DNS and had no idea this Sony lawsuit was going on. I donated and was very happy to be able to help.
SCREW Sony!!
Wouldn't it be nice if some of the domain servers out there all of a sudden started to not resolve any of Sonys domains for some inexplicable reason? I'm not for piracy, but I'm not for censoring either.
Whats more evil? downloading a song for personal use, or trying to censor the internet, shut down sites you don't like, and send you to prison for downloading that song for personal use?
Ah yes, the "sue the company paving the roads instead of the driver who did the accident" approach. Copyright is becoming a scourge on modern society.
haha, I was thinking "hey, a crime happened on this street, better remove the street signs!"
Im unemployed at the moment, but would donate if i could. I hope Q9 gets justice. F**k off SONY!
Thank you Tom for the update, you had turned me on to Quad9 a while back and I've been on the monthly donation plan ever since. Frankly I feel Sony is off their rocker pursuing this case, I pretty much don't use or have anything Sony related anymore because they act more like trolls than a media company I would want to do business with.
So? Sony didn’t learn from their CD root kit scandal?
It's quite clear and obvious to anyone paying attention this isn't about copyright. Copyright is only being used as the legal justification, it's not the end goal.
The internet is diverse & decentralised. That doesn't suit the old world corporate structure of the global economy. This is about corporate control of the internet, particularly as we take the first steps in moving away from a big data model for the internet and towards something slightly more respectful of privacy.
This is the same war for decentralised freedom on the internet we've been in for the last 30 years. We might be able to win this battle, but ultimately they'll keep going at it until we lose. And we will eventually lose.
At some point we have to either accept the internet isn't ours, or rid ourselves of corporate consumerism. There is no middle ground where we keep both, trying for one only guarantees their success.
Didn’t even know about this. Hopefully it backfires against Sony. Makes me want to donate to something I didn’t even know about.
Thanks for the heads up. Donation complete.
Thanks!
Just donated. I don't use Quad 9 a lot, but they have to win this for the sake of 'free as in freedom' Internet!
Thanks for pointing this out, thought the case was already over.
Funny, I was just thinking about Sony’s installing malware on consumer computers. Wondering if enough time had passed to look into VAIO again. Nope. Off to donate to the cause.
Please send a small donation to Quad9 to help with litigation costs - link above in the description. Thanks.
Wish some larger tech channels were talking about this, but nothing as of right now, also F sony.
The only way the coverage happens is if tech reporters discover the interest. Make yourself heard to other outlets that you frequent - a surprisingly small number of inquiries will get results. Thanks!
Time to start a hash tag in support of Quad9 maybe? ;)
But surely Quad9 can argue Sony should go after the root dns servers if they wanted to truly silence any resolution. Then, that would be someone else's problem and an entity with far larger resources to respond. Seems to me there is a way to get this thrown out.
Not the root servers, but the authoritative servers.
@@mrjackson2k Thank you.
Thank you sir.
Sony, and its subsiduaries, has been found in breach of copyright a number of times, and lets not forget them distributing malware too - so if they win against Quad9 that means we can blacklist all of Sony too.
If Sony want to create these rules, we can hold them to the same standards.
They've released compilation albums without clearing or owning the copyright for all the artists and tracks.
They've released albums for artists they no longer represent without clearing the copyright or compensating the artists.
They've released movies without clearing copyright on the music used.
They've released CD containing spyware and rootkits.
They've not paid royalties on licensed music, despite collecting payments for the content.
Sony violated the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act
Sony has even sued itself (different divisions) over copyright licensing - so in that case we can say Sony lost no matter what the outcome and so block their DNS.
Just donated. Screw you, Sony! This would be an awful precedent.
Makes the case for a more fully decentralized version of DNS.
Surely a fun problem I have no idea how to solve while maintaining integrity and being responsive to changes.
Already is decentralised just need to run your own resolver. And with this its looking more like i will start doing it again after 15 years of not needing to.
donated. going to switch to q9 as well.
Thanks for the video Tom, it's a very important issue to make noise about. The only point I would add: if the case is debated in the EU, we do not have case law, we're a civil law society. The best Sony can do is appeal the verdict all the way up to the EU International Court. The issue I see is that German courts have a mixed tracked record in dealing with these sort of copyright lawsuits, but what a German court decides has no impact on wider jurisdictions, it does not escalate to a precedent, since the basis of law in Europe is the codex and not the principle of stare decisis as in the UK. I would be interested to see such issue deferred to the EU Court, which has a very good track record on guaranteeing net neutrality. Fingers crossed
What sony wants is already applied here in Portugal by Portuguese dns resolvers. Courts order that certain addresses are blocked and when when tries to access them message instead displays saying the website was blocked by court order
@@fgsaramago that's troubling. I remember a few attempts made in Italy too, but it was for pirate pay-per-view and always temporary. I don't what German federal law says about this, but my point was just to say that a sentence in favour of Sony in Germany does not automatically make it a binding precedent outside the state or federal jurisdiction of Germany itself. I didn't know about the cases in Portugal and it would be interesting to know if it was an Intellectual property thing or a national security thing.
@@castigo1986 it is intellectual property related, and always as the result of specific court cases. A court will order that ISPs block certain websites having been deemed to be distributing pirated content "by all means possible". ISPs thus far have translated that simply into having their DNS resolvers block those sites. They are still perfectly accessible when using a different DNS resolver.
@@fgsaramago so instead of the resolvers to to the domain registry to remove the domain. The way sony is behaving is stupid. As Tom says.
Either Sonys lawyers are technically stupid or they have another agenda
@@damiendye6623 your point?
Precedence law does not work in Europe.
$10 donated. F you Sony!
SONY sure has some nerve. How is any DNS company suppose to track all the sites and make sure that nothing there is copyrighted, etc. Just what are they eating over there.
Is this similar to the police asking the phone book company to remove the phone number of a drug dealer?
Yeah, or like getting Google to remove a criminal's address from Google Maps lol. It's completely asinine.
I would say it's similar to suing the a company that provides directions to a location to someone who commits a crime.
It's sort of even more absurd - the DNS is open to anyone, so censoring this data on Quad9's servers does not stop every other resolver from having the data. It is not an effective or proportional solution in our opinion.
Quad9 was having tons of issue few weeks back. Google sites were all being blocked by Quad9 not sure why?
I've been using Quad9 for a while now and didn't experience these issues, it might have been localized to your region. 🤷♂️
I also experienced this on Quad9 a few evenings in a row! I thought I was going crazy.
Well until today I was a Sony user buying into their A camera system since over 15y. This makes me regret this.
I legit donated I won't stand for this. Also I like Quad9
Donated! ❤
I could understand it (a little) if they went after a search engine... but a DNS? Just being bullies.
It's not Quad9's responsibility to police the injustice of copywrite infractions. If Sony wants this solved then go after the ones actually break the law. If they are out of country then go fight your case in that country. If you can't fight your case there then go to the US government. Again this isn't Quad9's responsibility.
We would agree that the recursive DNS seems to be one of the more distant places to try to pursue the end goals of rightsholders. There are several more obvious and effective places to go first which did not seem to be fully pursued, which we note in the arguments in our objection.
Oh god, I don't want to live in a world where DNS can be broken because of copyrights. Please no.
Check out any time you wish.
I was originally going to buy some Sony stock but this has convinced me otherwise.
I think we have to go back to the host files.
Or why not just get back to DNS as in Distributed. Why are so many hot on the idea of a Central Naming System like any Quads? Use the distributed ones and your okay.
While we are at it, let's sue the ones who build roads for all the DUI causing accidents on the roads, that makes about as much sense as this.
Censorship at this level would kill any kind of freedom on the internet, not surprised it's Sony at the other end.
We need decentralized name resolution, something like ENS but easier for mainstream adoption.
Yes, use the DNS of your ISP. That’s the original distributed design.
@@MR-vj8dn just run your own resolver service. Bind, unbound, etc just run it in a container.
The level of stupidity of Sony baffles me....
Since when is Sony under the authority of the entire internet??
What gives them the right to block DNS for a website just because they say so?
They aren't a legal entity!
Sony, screw you! Why are you going after a DNS provider?! That's not the way to go! And what about the way larger Google and Cloudflare? How about the ISP dns-servers?
What sony wants is more or less what already happens here in Portugal. Portuguese resolvers wont solve cerain addresses that are part of a list courts have decided should be blocked aspart of a lawsuit, normally "piracy" websites. A message is displayed saying that the website were trying to access was blocked by court order
And why is that a bad idea? I’d support that.
1:22 he said reacharound
2:03 - Maybe put the Pinky away when you signal 2? ;-)
I still hate Sony for loading spyware on my PC using Coldplay XY CD
Would be nice to explain what is it about. It's the first time I hear about it. Probably I would agree with you if I would understand the issue. But from my unaware perspective, this clip for is saying "quad9 good, Sony bad, give money".
Sony is suing Quad9 asking them to stop resolving web sites Sony thinks should not be on the internet.
In a nutshell, Sony is trying to censor the internet by forcing the hand of a smaller company to set a precedent. Once a precedent is set they and others will go after larger companies such as Google, CloudFlare etc. Eventually then it will not just be "copyrighted" material, it will be whatever he who has the biggest hand deems wrong. Kind of like facebook and twitter already do.
Screw Sony just donated to quad 9!!!
Thanks for the support - we'll be using it towards our legal fees and can use all the help we can get.
Donated :)
Donated
"Reach around"???
For now they sadly lost. Hopefully higher courts will settle this. The whole process is pretty sus. Sony willingly choose a rather small opponent and a quiete low court in Germany
It don’t seem to matter what dns I use I’m filtered on the isp side anyway. Well I’m pretty sure. My internet traffic is filtered and controlled.
How have you determined this? Don't use your ISP's dns, use Quad9.
That's what VPNs are for. The truck stop WiFi I'm on now blocks TH-cam, but I'm on it. Deals abound; I see them for about $25/year.
Dang it Tom, I put the shirt on first today, go change 😜. I cannot wrap my brain around Sony's argument here... EDIT: should we block dropbox? People have movies on there, you never know!
And Google Drive!
I think that it would be way more effective if we go against the registers of the domain names and we set better standards for the take downs of domains, rather then having the DNS Servers regulate that. I'm for people who are hosting illegal content to have their Domain shutdown, but doing it through the middle-man is difficult and will only result in a more centralized DNS and internet overall.
www.icann.org/ already has a process for this.
A more centralised controllable internet is the point. It's naive to believe this is genuinely at all about copyright.
@@tjmarx I thought that was the front ICANN was for?
@@PBRichfield ICANN isn't a central internet anything. They control a section of gTLDs, oversee standards for a section of DNS and push their security agenda through the former two.
But whilst ICANN does have international cooperation, many countries have their own ICANN equivalent bodies that mirror ICANNs function on a narrower scale. ICANN whois can't even read the db for many of these entities. They're walled, so ICANN have to attempt to convince each of these entities to use the same DNS standards and upgrade in sync which almost never happens smoothly. So there's all this fallback stuff in the system.
Remember in 2011 when RIAA tried to sue ICANN then later dropped the suit when they realised ICANN aren't anything near as powerful as they first thought? RIAA are back at attacking ICANN since 2021 along with the DNS providers like Quad9. I guess their plan this time is to go after both and take out a good portion of the popular internet. Quality of service isn't their concern, if they could get rid of the internet entirely I have no doubt they would.
The problem these conglomerates face is there is no one they can befriend, lobby or bribe to get favourable terms, legislation or exemptions. There is no enforcement agency that can selectively persecute their smaller competitors on their behalf. The domestic tactics that made them conglomerates in the first place don't work in the digital world because it's fundamentally an open standard.
THAT is what they want to change. It's inevitable that it will happen eventually, the only question is how long we can fight them off. So when I say centralised internet, I mean a fractured closed standard that you need some kind of regulatory permission to participate in commercially. A system where setting up an internet facing server at home or in an office without an expensive permit to do so is a crime. Think of it like a gas pipeline, where you need permits to build and those permits are behind a biased regulatory wall that manages competition to the existing players.
You know those times when TH-cam or [enter additional platform here] have copyright claimed works which weren't the claimants work but were slightly similar in some way, then refused to lift the strike on appeal? Those aren't accidents. Imagine that, only 1000x more aggressive and across the entire internet where only the people whom agree to play by those rules get to exist.
That's the internet they're after. That's what going after Quad9 is about. Taking down a major part of infrastructure and forcing them to act in that manner is the first steps down that path.
10 dollars well spent.
I’ve not read up on why specifically quad9 are being sued, so I wouldn’t comment on that. But: Why do ppl use any other DNS but the one closest to them .. i e the ISP? 🤔
I actually use OpenDNS DNS filter to keep adult content out of my home. I don’t use my ISP dns
We need every single person who gives half a shit to send sony a complaint regarding this, stating that they will effectively no longer purchase Sony products and services. As well as inform as many people as possible about their idiocy.
They should "move" their servers to the NL. I doubt those rules apply here. It is also going to be extremely difficult to convince any court into blocking content. It has taken years for The Pirate Bay to be blocked and basically its not blocked at all. Because its very difficult with ever changing IP addresses. This might very well be dragged all the way to the European court. We shall see.
Quad9 operates servers in around 100 nations right now, in roughly 200 locations. We do this to get faster and more relevant responses to end users. We have servers in Germany for our German and other users, and our goal is not to geographically retreat from these challenges but to win against them so that everyone can benefit from the result.
@@quad9dns374 if you have servers in Portugal then youre already applying such blocks or youre acting unlawfully. Every Portuguese ISP blocks certain sites theyve been ordered to by courts
@@fgsaramago so Portugal is a dictatorship limiting what people can see
This is the definition of a frivolous lawsuit. Corporate greed and power pushing too far. Hope this sends all the pirates out there and overdrive, and spreads more of Sony‘s crap. You don’t need DNS to pirates software.
They made objection to the sentence in june as they say the same things as you do. Its not the first time now that german court makes decisions in favor of big companies and are totally wrong. I follow briefly what happens there and they are on a sinking boat for these things, in my opinion.
Maybe Sony sees the Quad9 blocking as an opportunity to achieve their goal.
They went for quad9 as google and cloudflair would have bent the knee.
Absolutely incredible that Sony could target them. Eating my breakfast cereal and nearly choking on it in disbelief
So, suing what is the equivalent of a phone book.
Not something I expected to see when I looked up quad9 before diving it.
Leave it to companies like Sony to try and ruin a good thing.
Bank of America denied card through PayPal, hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Wow
Can't the EFF step in?
Not in this case but they are concerned www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/07/dns-provider-hit-outrageous-blocking-order-your-provider-next
So why did quad9 spin off from IBM? To avoid us regulations?
IBM never owned them, they were just one of the big sponsors to get them going.
I stopped buying Sony's product 20 years ago. Their last half-decent product was the walkman. Sony you can suck my...
Man Sony is a sleazy lately. They release a firmware update for their very popular 2020 model X900h TV and myself and thousands of redditors on r/Bravia are now experiencing random reboots on the tv. Sony doesn’t even acknowledge it, and they just tell you to reset the tv or clear app caches etc… but it keeps happening. The prior firmware was far better. The evidence is there but since it’s a 2 year old TV.
When planned obsolescence does not go according to plan, improvise.
How, in Sony's wildest imagination, is Quad9 responsible for anything other people host online? Forcing them to do this is the equivalent of requiring slave labor on Sony's behalf.
Not sure about the slave labor part... Here in Portugal, dns resolvers have for the longest time been required to block specific websites that a court has asked them to as a result of a judicial decision
Copyright infringers are using air for breathing!!! Sony says - anyone who breathes must pay to Sony !!!
Hmm, that might be their next move!
Pay to Sony 1st, then prove you not infringing, then Sony will reimburse you with coupons towards next purchase.
😎
sounds the ELITES aint happy about quad9 doing a good job of blocking them spying on us, i donated £100 :)
Sony downvoted this video....
Sony has more money than brains... This is like saying that because a car uses fuel, all fuel must be banned because there is a singular "bad" use case.
They're working on that...
This is a very low moment for Sony. Very sad, very disappointing.
Sony is stupid. Why go after a DNS company who doesn't host anything that "infringed" their copyright? It's like suing a guy who walks on the street in front of a shop that you own....
Huh, Sony went to legal bootcamp by Nintendo?
This is just Sony sabre rattling......"look at us....we are tackling X Y Z issue of the day, week, month, year" ie: (internally within Sony) "This makes us look good that we are doing something" Seen this time and time again.
Because they
e greedy, corrupt and power hungry. I'm never buying another Sony product again.
Please don't get involved in politics. Next you will lose a follower. And I truly like your channel.
This is not political
@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS I see
Shouldn't the FCC stop this kind of nonsense against such an important communication system as the internet?
They filed in Germany, not the US.
As if I needed any more reasons to hate Sony.
Let's go Sony!
Sony is being incredibly dumb here. IF you really wanted to get to "restricted sites" like that, then its not hard to start your own dns server like Pihole and just get everything from the Authorative DNS