SERIOUSLY Sean? Just 2 days ago, my fiancé saw a Macintosh SE30 and asked me, if I would want to have one, too and if Doom can run on it. I told her, there's no way and literally 2 days after that you prove me wrong...... Thanks!
@@UNSCPILOT Yeah, as far as the most artsy side of photography goes, that's right. Not so sure about a GUI or computer games. But for sure it's a heckuva of a better experience than 1-bit actual B/W if the software has been made with that option in mind.
Man, your videos are truly nerd heaven. It brings me so much joy just seeing the title of what crazy old mac adventure we’re having today. Thank you so much for making this amazing content!
Really kicking myself for getting rid of my SE/30 with Grayscale 30 card installed, but so awesome there's a replacement. I removed the associated Color 30 card when I got an Ethernet card since there wasn't a way to use them both together unlike what you're doing (and at that point my SE/30 had been relegated to server duty so didn't need a grayscale or color display). One thing I remember it did is have a virtual larger screen available.
I love that you approach it with such enthusiasm while never pretending for one second that any of this is practical or necessary. It's just the joy of messing around and finding out what is possible!
one of the funny things about the SE 30 was that it shared so much with the Macintosh IIx that some would add the x to SE. it was the ultimate SEx Machen.
Please keep the SE/40 like this, I think it would turn a lot of heads at VCF, especially considering it can run DOOM. I personally envy this machine, what with me trying to make my LC III be what this machine is.
Nice! Next do the LCD swap. I have a SE30 with a Lapis PDS video card with the CRT swapped out for a Mitsubishi 8.4" LCD panel, built by the incredible @BillyTheKidCENTURION. It runs at 640x480, in thousands of colours, and with SCSI2SD and the 128MB of RAM enabled by the ROM-inator II, it can handle a lot more than it was designed for. With the Asante SCSI to Ethernet Adapter with Vonnets Wifi Bridge, it can wirelessly connect to the internet, albeit slowly, and with many limitations specifically related to SSL and such, but FTP works great as a quick way to move files on and off the machine. You should reach out to Billy if you're interested in more about that build. He is always a delight to chat with about all things retro mac.
Ngl, I would never have known of half of the crazy effort that these people put into things if it weren't for you. You do the chaotic geniuses of the Mac Community proud by popularising them!
Doesn't Mac Doom have lo-res chunky mode like PC Doom? Where it duplicates the columns? Actually PC Doom ran in 320x200 to start with so there's even less pixels there.
Still love that clear case. Would be cool to take all the mounting brackets and give them a shot of color to make them pop, probably just me but a plum crazy purple would look pretty sweet lol.
I found a video of Doom running on an e-ink screen and it's very close, performance wise. The contrast seems to be a little better on the e-ink, so things are easier to make out, as long as you're standing still. There is pretty bad motion blur any time you move from the slow refresh of the e-ink display. I think this might actually be slightly more playable. It certainly has a similar look to an e-ink display, it's just a lot darker which hurts the contrast ratio. But that is probably down to how the graphics card converts color to grayscale, and could be solved.
We really need a breakdown of what all of the upgrades in this unit are and to see what the probable cost this would have been in the period if possible.
wonder if someone could port fastdoom to mac, that build can even play doom on CGA and hercules graphics cards, i know it's optimized for 32bit intels, but i mean more the graphical modifications they've done.
I played DOOM on my 386SX25 back in the day and I wasn't far from the smallest postage stamp size, this feels like it can use that size as well! Would totally have played it like so too!
The difference is that nowdays you can get fastdoom for systems like that - no such project exists for Mac because the mac apparently repels retro computer programmers.
I remember "playing" DooM on my IIx back in the day - 32" screen, colour, 6 installed graphics cards and 128MB RAM - I managed to get a frame or two when I made the screen view the size of a postage stamp! It was playable on my PB5300ce - I even used the superior level editor to make quite a few levels!
I first played Doom back in the day on a 286 IBM PS/2 upgraded to 486, with a grayscale PS/2 display. This was very nostalgic, felt much the same as my memories of Doom. (Got a 486DX2/66 soon after and it was glorious.)
I still have an SE/30 sitting in my garage from my days working at Apple in the late 80s. I also had a Mac II from that era that is sitting next to it. Back in the day, grayscale monitors were a thing. In fact, Apple used to sell one as a cheaper alternative to the color monitor for the Mac Pro which was very expensive and hard to get due to supply constraints of the day.
@Action Retro Sean, in addition to the shirt worn in the video, try and find one that says, "I ❤ Toxic Waste ☢". That was a shirt worn by Val Kilmer in the movie "Real Genius".
As someone who grew up with a used 512 from grade school all through highschool that I still have…this is the greatest think to happen to the tech world since the gameboy.
1bit = Monochrome, Black and white = shades of gray (8bit typically). Doom on an SE30, what a treat! FPS wise, similar to what I had playing on my 486 SX33 with a very lacking Oak Technologies VGA card, interestingly, also in grayscale (color monitors were very expensive back then)😎 I used to shrink the window to about 50% then adjust the width and height to "zoom in" with the monitor controls. I think I was probably at about 12fps like this.
I wonder if it would be possible to drop a color CRT in a Mac SE case. Given how much the Color Classic sells for these days, it might actually be cheaper. This reminds me a lot of when I used to play DOOM on a 386 with a paper-white monochrome monitor with a ton of burn-in. Back then, I had to make do with whatever I could get my hands on for cheap.
I was waiting to see you press F5 to toggle the graphics detail between the default, and low detail mode, but perhaps that's not a feature in Mac Doom? Might have given you a couple more FPS.
those curved TV display like tubed monitors almost have a lost tecnology that seemed to have like a magnifying curved lens window that makes such a illusion in our mind as we work close to the display it is bigger then it seems. with the flat LED displays we lost that curved magnifying screen. while such old tubed screens always had some curve to flat lines, it still be interesting to see how we could use such fine resolution now and put it in a small curved magnifying screen. if such is possible then the old retro Mac shape could be a come back of the balance of portability and usability.
I've got a MacSD on order for a Color Classic with a Sonnet 040 card I just pulled out of the basement for the first time in 20 years. Unfortunately the HD spins up briefly twice and then fails. The only boot floppy I have on hand is MacTestPro but it's for PPC so, the screen glitches on Welcome to Macintosh with the 040 card installed, and reports the OS isn't compatible without it. The goal is to play some Maxis games and hopefully Myst (on a 9" format that surely very few have ever seen). I'm a little nervous about getting data onto the SD card in a usable format from a PC. Between loose files (.hqx and .sit) and images (.toast)... I suspect some hoops need to be jumped through to get them accessible from MacSD. Technically I do have a modern mac on hand but I'd rather do it from a PC.
Yes, I maxed mine out with dual Xeon processors, 64 GB RAM, an SSD on a PCIe card as the boot disk, another SATA SSD for data storage and a relatively modern AMD Radeon RX 580 graphics card. Works great with macOS 10.14 Mojave.
thats cool - be even cooler to put a color crt in with correct crt socket board to actually make it color - that would be perfect for the clear case mac!
Would it be possible to create a PCB hardware version plug-in of the coloring A.I that goes between this purple Board & screen? Seems like a feasable thing no?
I first played through Doom on my 50 MHz '030 Amiga. It wasn't bad. Can't recall the framerate, but it was playable. (I don't want to be That Guy, but it was definitely better than your '040 Mac. Of course, it was the Amiga's display hardware that made the port difficult in the first place; presumably whoever eventually did the port really optimized it. And, to be fair, I probably played in “low detail” block-o-vision mode. Again, I can't remember, but it seems likely.) And it's been ported to the Sansa Clip MP3 player (because of course it has), which has a 1-bit OLED display. Greyscale is simulated with PWM; i.e., flashing pixels. It makes your eyes bleed, and it's still only barely recognisable as Doom. But the point is it might be possible to run it on 1-bit-display Macs if anyone's prepared to do a source port. It would be absolutely awful, trust me, but maybe possible. And definitely hilarious.
THAT is why I got an LC-II within 2 years after my School (I was a Teacher)! I hope VCF-South is revised as I can't make it to the VCF-East show this year. Hope next year is more financially viable! 😉
Does the monitor have a discharge coil? I’d have thought it wouldn’t be safe to be touching the CRT components like the neck board without discharging it first.
I had a Performa as a kid and the monitor broke somehow so when in color mode it was just tinted green so I had to play Doom (and marathon) in gray scale. Not a good time, but at least the performa was able to run it decently.
Glad to see the Cursed Mac is still around. It's really putting the "compact" in compact Mac.
very true all the new hardware stuffed in there is astonishing . and it still works .:)
I’m 69 like nice. I love these channel he should make more of those cursed computer
I expect the Doctor to walk out of it at any moment.
SERIOUSLY Sean? Just 2 days ago, my fiancé saw a Macintosh SE30 and asked me, if I would want to have one, too and if Doom can run on it. I told her, there's no way and literally 2 days after that you prove me wrong...... Thanks!
If you think greyscale is an upgrade.. You've come to the right channel 😋👍
Greyscale certainly has it's place, sometimes a picture can be better without colour
@@UNSCPILOT Yeah, as far as the most artsy side of photography goes, that's right. Not so sure about a GUI or computer games. But for sure it's a heckuva of a better experience than 1-bit actual B/W if the software has been made with that option in mind.
@@UNSCPILOT I didn't even know you could do that.. 30 years a LOT has changed
Nice one lol
Remember %username, doing CCPway ads you are helping Chinese communists finance military build up for the invasion of Taiwan.
Man, your videos are truly nerd heaven. It brings me so much joy just seeing the title of what crazy old mac adventure we’re having today. Thank you so much for making this amazing content!
Really kicking myself for getting rid of my SE/30 with Grayscale 30 card installed, but so awesome there's a replacement. I removed the associated Color 30 card when I got an Ethernet card since there wasn't a way to use them both together unlike what you're doing (and at that point my SE/30 had been relegated to server duty so didn't need a grayscale or color display). One thing I remember it did is have a virtual larger screen available.
I hate myself for trying to turn my sister's old SE/30 into a Macquarium.
Holy MOLY, dude. It's absolutely mindblowing how clever some people are to cook this stuff up. Lucky for us dumb'uns!
I love that you approach it with such enthusiasm while never pretending for one second that any of this is practical or necessary. It's just the joy of messing around and finding out what is possible!
The only logical next step would be to hack a color CRT into one of these
The end result is such a monstrosity and I love every bit of it.
one of the funny things about the SE 30 was that it shared so much with the Macintosh IIx that some would add the x to SE. it was the ultimate SEx Machen.
Rumor has it that’s why they named it SE/30. The prudes would freak over SEx.
Very impresive! All that work and you have a version of Doom running almost as well as the 3DO version!
You are a madman and I love it. Keep making crazy videos like this.
I always fantasized about greyscale on a classic Mac so I could see ImageStudio in all it's glory! This is just awesome.
My old box Mac had one and a whopping 2.5 megabytes of ram!
Sean, you've outdone yourself. Again. Amazing work, and super entertaining. I laughed out loud multiple times.
Please keep the SE/40 like this, I think it would turn a lot of heads at VCF, especially considering it can run DOOM. I personally envy this machine, what with me trying to make my LC III be what this machine is.
Nice! Next do the LCD swap. I have a SE30 with a Lapis PDS video card with the CRT swapped out for a Mitsubishi 8.4" LCD panel, built by the incredible @BillyTheKidCENTURION. It runs at 640x480, in thousands of colours, and with SCSI2SD and the 128MB of RAM enabled by the ROM-inator II, it can handle a lot more than it was designed for. With the Asante SCSI to Ethernet Adapter with Vonnets Wifi Bridge, it can wirelessly connect to the internet, albeit slowly, and with many limitations specifically related to SSL and such, but FTP works great as a quick way to move files on and off the machine. You should reach out to Billy if you're interested in more about that build. He is always a delight to chat with about all things retro mac.
Great upgrades here... but I really lost it when you started ripping the Doom theme on guitar! Fantastic.
Always a blast to have the frankenmac make an appearance. This upgrade fits perfectly!
Now, this was impressive. Great mods. The Cursed Mac can't take more upgrades lol. Btw nice guitar moment
Love the knitting with the purple wires… ahh doom so 50 shades of grey fps.
Ngl, I would never have known of half of the crazy effort that these people put into things if it weren't for you. You do the chaotic geniuses of the Mac Community proud by popularising them!
Great video, always enjoy your content!
that is a really nice kit. love the nod to sonnet with the purple
As an SE/30 owner, I hope that the enthusiast forum keeps it up. I'd love to build mine out beyond the SD card conversion.
Somewhere Bolle is probably dreaming of a PowerPC upgrade for this thing. We can only hope, anyway!
This is absolutely ridiculous Sean, ridiculous. I love it, it's exactly why I subscribe :)
I feel better now that I've had my weekly dose of Action Retro :-)
Doesn't Mac Doom have lo-res chunky mode like PC Doom? Where it duplicates the columns? Actually PC Doom ran in 320x200 to start with so there's even less pixels there.
Great scott, doom on a classic mac, i dont know why i didn't see this coming.
Awesome!! Thanks for sharing
I really like the transparent chassis. It’s really nice to look at!
Incredible. Love this mod!
Still love that clear case. Would be cool to take all the mounting brackets and give them a shot of color to make them pop, probably just me but a plum crazy purple would look pretty sweet lol.
This is the most impressive thing you have built yet!
Glad to see the 68kmla getting things done. I haven't been there in years.
Everyone: frames per second
Doom: seconds per frame
Loved the video 👍
I found a video of Doom running on an e-ink screen and it's very close, performance wise. The contrast seems to be a little better on the e-ink, so things are easier to make out, as long as you're standing still. There is pretty bad motion blur any time you move from the slow refresh of the e-ink display. I think this might actually be slightly more playable. It certainly has a similar look to an e-ink display, it's just a lot darker which hurts the contrast ratio. But that is probably down to how the graphics card converts color to grayscale, and could be solved.
That's turribly awesome. First time I played DooM was on a 486DX2-66 with pc speaker audio.
insanely insane video :)
I'm getting some real Kowloon Walled City vibes from that clear SE/30! Nifty!
We really need a breakdown of what all of the upgrades in this unit are and to see what the probable cost this would have been in the period if possible.
I haven’t ever seen doom run so bad, I love it
You finally found it. Good on you lol mentioned it in one of your way earlier cursed vids. Tuvix for President
wonder if someone could port fastdoom to mac, that build can even play doom on CGA and hercules graphics cards, i know it's optimized for 32bit intels, but i mean more the graphical modifications they've done.
I played DOOM on my 386SX25 back in the day and I wasn't far from the smallest postage stamp size, this feels like it can use that size as well! Would totally have played it like so too!
Seen
The difference is that nowdays you can get fastdoom for systems like that - no such project exists for Mac because the mac apparently repels retro computer programmers.
I remember "playing" DooM on my IIx back in the day - 32" screen, colour, 6 installed graphics cards and 128MB RAM - I managed to get a frame or two when I made the screen view the size of a postage stamp! It was playable on my PB5300ce - I even used the superior level editor to make quite a few levels!
I first played Doom back in the day on a 286 IBM PS/2 upgraded to 486, with a grayscale PS/2 display.
This was very nostalgic, felt much the same as my memories of Doom. (Got a 486DX2/66 soon after and it was glorious.)
woah. Didn't realize there were 486 upgrade kits for 286 PCs. Thought those were only for 386 machines
@@Michael-im5mq D-oh! That was a typo - it was a 386 upgrade.
As as soon as I saw your reddit post I was beyond excited for this video.
I notice you have a new Noctua fan in your SE30. I’m gonna do the same upgrade soon. Hopefully it cools effectively.
The cursed one sure has become beautiful
Perhaps you'd be able to compile an optimized source port to run with decent frame rates and true grayscale support. Would be nifty to see for sure!
Well I did own a SE/30 back in uni .. with the Radius pivot option. Many many years ago.
I still have an SE/30 sitting in my garage from my days working at Apple in the late 80s. I also had a Mac II from that era that is sitting next to it. Back in the day, grayscale monitors were a thing. In fact, Apple used to sell one as a cheaper alternative to the color monitor for the Mac Pro which was very expensive and hard to get due to supply constraints of the day.
Mac Pro? I assume you meant to write a II model.
@Action Retro Sean, in addition to the shirt worn in the video, try and find one that says, "I ❤ Toxic Waste ☢". That was a shirt worn by Val Kilmer in the movie "Real Genius".
Sooo awesome!
As someone who grew up with a used 512 from grade school all through highschool that I still have…this is the greatest think to happen to the tech world since the gameboy.
Great ep.
1bit = Monochrome, Black and white = shades of gray (8bit typically).
Doom on an SE30, what a treat!
FPS wise, similar to what I had playing on my 486 SX33 with a very lacking Oak Technologies VGA card, interestingly, also in grayscale (color monitors were very expensive back then)😎
I used to shrink the window to about 50% then adjust the width and height to "zoom in" with the monitor controls. I think I was probably at about 12fps like this.
That's a real struggle. A friend if mine played quake1 such a way on k5-133 processor. Pain and sacrifice are the keys.
I remember we used to use this in my high school in the late 90s . Those good days 📺
Your final week of MARCHintosh could be sure that running DOOM would be the big highlight.
You can tell you enjoy what you do! Thanks for being funny, and true to yourself. :D YAS cursed mac is back!
Return of the legend.
And it runs Doom!
I wonder if it would be possible to drop a color CRT in a Mac SE case. Given how much the Color Classic sells for these days, it might actually be cheaper.
This reminds me a lot of when I used to play DOOM on a 386 with a paper-white monochrome monitor with a ton of burn-in. Back then, I had to make do with whatever I could get my hands on for cheap.
This is glorious
Damn it. I watched the entire video. I'm just as messed up as you. 😢😢😢. Really enjoyed the video.
Nuts! I never would have thought I'd see Doom on this thing.
That is one crazy piece of hardware.
I was waiting to see you press F5 to toggle the graphics detail between the default, and low detail mode, but perhaps that's not a feature in Mac Doom? Might have given you a couple more FPS.
those curved TV display like tubed monitors almost have a lost tecnology that seemed to have like a magnifying curved lens window that makes such a illusion in our mind as we work close to the display it is bigger then it seems. with the flat LED displays we lost that curved magnifying screen. while such old tubed screens always had some curve to flat lines, it still be interesting to see how we could use such fine resolution now and put it in a small curved magnifying screen. if such is possible then the old retro Mac shape could be a come back of the balance of portability and usability.
I hate shoot em up games of all flavours, but that's a very creditable performance from such an old computer. Thanks for the demonstration. 🙂👍
I've got a MacSD on order for a Color Classic with a Sonnet 040 card I just pulled out of the basement for the first time in 20 years. Unfortunately the HD spins up briefly twice and then fails. The only boot floppy I have on hand is MacTestPro but it's for PPC so, the screen glitches on Welcome to Macintosh with the 040 card installed, and reports the OS isn't compatible without it. The goal is to play some Maxis games and hopefully Myst (on a 9" format that surely very few have ever seen). I'm a little nervous about getting data onto the SD card in a usable format from a PC. Between loose files (.hqx and .sit) and images (.toast)... I suspect some hoops need to be jumped through to get them accessible from MacSD. Technically I do have a modern mac on hand but I'd rather do it from a PC.
If you can mod out a SE30 to that level, can you push a 2009 Mac Pro the same way ? Great stuff as always.
Yes, I maxed mine out with dual Xeon processors, 64 GB RAM, an SSD on a PCIe card as the boot disk, another SATA SSD for data storage and a relatively modern AMD Radeon RX 580 graphics card. Works great with macOS 10.14 Mojave.
thats cool - be even cooler to put a color crt in with correct crt socket board to actually make it color - that would be perfect for the clear case mac!
The cursed Mac was what brought me to your channel. It's come a long way from the horror show it started as. 🤓
If you mix Kay Koba’s Analog reborn, Kai Robinson’s SE reloaded, Mac Effects clear case and this guy’s video card you’ll have a completely new SE!
SE and SE/30 are totally different PDS i'm afraid - also, you'd have to replicate the rest of the custom chips.
You should try to put a color LCD in the cursed mac if you can it would make more room etc.
I love these Seananigans 😂 👍👏
We need a “It chimed!” T-Shirt
Im not much of a mac fan but i love the insane mods. Very fun
And the sounds of the early nighties come flooding back..."return of the mac, return of the mac......"
I had a card that used to display greyscale vs dithering on an apple //e monochrome display called the screen enhancer //e by video7
Would it be possible to create a PCB hardware version plug-in of the coloring A.I that goes between this purple Board & screen? Seems like a feasable thing no?
I first played through Doom on my 50 MHz '030 Amiga. It wasn't bad. Can't recall the framerate, but it was playable. (I don't want to be That Guy, but it was definitely better than your '040 Mac. Of course, it was the Amiga's display hardware that made the port difficult in the first place; presumably whoever eventually did the port really optimized it. And, to be fair, I probably played in “low detail” block-o-vision mode. Again, I can't remember, but it seems likely.)
And it's been ported to the Sansa Clip MP3 player (because of course it has), which has a 1-bit OLED display. Greyscale is simulated with PWM; i.e., flashing pixels. It makes your eyes bleed, and it's still only barely recognisable as Doom.
But the point is it might be possible to run it on 1-bit-display Macs if anyone's prepared to do a source port. It would be absolutely awful, trust me, but maybe possible. And definitely hilarious.
1:38 - don't forget there was also a SCSI display option!
The CRT HV anode right next to the video card gives me anxiety, need some shielding there lol
if this was a plot to lure us away from playing Doom on the refrigerator, am afraid it failed
THAT is why I got an LC-II within 2 years after my School (I was a Teacher)! I hope VCF-South is revised as I can't make it to the VCF-East show this year. Hope next year is more financially viable! 😉
YESSSSSSS Cursed mac gets even more absurdly upgraded! MORE MORE MOOOORE.
How does Marathon run?
Time for an amber phosphor CRT!
The Cursed Mac, is now the Doomed Mac. Great job on the video! 🤪👍
Video card on the cursed mac is amazing. I'm wondering how Wolfenstein performs.
"Play Doom in a postage stamp" at 11:43. So, exactly the same as my 386SX / 20 PC with SVGA graphics card in 1993
Wow, it's pretty spicy now. Maybe it could run a modern environment via netbsd now?
What ever happened to the volume knob and amp on the cursed mac?
Would pay very handsomely to get a hold of one of Bolle's greyscale cards.
Can those bolle upgrades only be used on an SE30? Could I stick them on a Classic or Classic II?
Does the monitor have a discharge coil? I’d have thought it wouldn’t be safe to be touching the CRT components like the neck board without discharging it first.
@09:40 ran about that fast on my old 386 back in the day
Now you need to find a color CRT for this, and then it will truly be to World's Most Upgraded Mac SE/30.
I remember using those Mac computers in high school and they were very slow.
I had a Performa as a kid and the monitor broke somehow so when in color mode it was just tinted green so I had to play Doom (and marathon) in gray scale. Not a good time, but at least the performa was able to run it decently.