Point of Order! 4WD wasn't invented (for road cars) by AUDI. It was invented by the Irish engineer Harry Ferguson. The first production car to use 4WD was the Jensen FF (Ferguson Formula), built between 1966 and 1971, which was also notable as the first car with Anti-Lock brakes, the Dunlop Maxaret system. AUDI bought an example of the FF to learn how it worked, and AFAIK, still own it as part of their (non-public) collection
The first production car with four-wheel drive (4WD) was the Spyker 60HP, introduced in 1903 by the Dutch brothers Jacobus and Hendrik-Jan SpijkerAd1. This vehicle was notable for its full-time
@@guccifer2 While the Spyker 60hp was undoubtedly the first 4WD car, it was a prototype racing car, NOT a production road car. Likewise, the GAZ-61, while produced in sufficient numbers to count as a production vehicle, was designed mainly as an off-road vehicle. While it could be used on roads, that wasn't it's primary focus, much like the Willy's Jeep or LandRover. While there were many 4WD vehicles prior to the Jensen FF, they were all either prototype/race cars (Bugatti built around 6-ish 4WD racers in the early '30's, and there were several one-off prototypes from the 1920's on), or designed for off-road use, with locking/locked differentials, which are problematic when used on-road. That's why early LandRover front hubs have to be manually locked to the driveshafts prior to going off-road, and unlocked before going back onto roads - as if they are left locked on when driving on road, they produce vicious tire shudder & understeer (& quite often break parts of the drivetrain). The way that the Ferguson 4WD was different, was in the use of viscous (fluid) couplings instead of mechanical differentials for the front wheel drive & center differential. This prevented the tire shudder & other issues by dampening out the shock loadings that would otherwise be produced, which allowed the permanent use of 4WD in a road car for the first time, rather than needing to be manually selected when needed... Oh, and just as an FYI, while the Spyker 60 was the first 4WD CAR, it wasn't the first 4WD Vehicle. That honor goes to the Diplock Steam Locomotive, a steam powered 4WD, 4WS, traction engine. Patented by the magnificently named Bramah Joseph Diplock in 1893, and built "shortly thereafter".
The issue was not even with the cars, but weak rollcages and almost complete lack of stages safety. People were standing on the road, competing who will get closer or even touch the car. Today Group B cars routinely take part in rallies and nothing bad happens.
It's just insanity to think about the fact that in '86 there existed plans for Group S, a "regulation set" with even fewer rules and even lower production numbers. The Group S prototype built by Audi is still running to this day. Obviously it never got raced but just imagine The 80s were the peak of engineering innovation and insanity
No no no, HOLD ON. The FIA are brutes and bullies and instead of doing the MINIMUM amount of safety, like having barriers in place and ropes that spectators could not pass, they instead went "Good job racers, teams and manufacturers, you blew an amazing sport, it's being removed because of YOU wanting to complain!"
Group B was preceded by Group 4 which needed 400 production cars, not 5000. That was Group 1. And the Peugeot 205 you showed in that ad is actually a Peugeot 104. The "rear mounted" engines were actually mid-mounted.
These Group B stories are fascinating and fun to hear. But they are all missing the the idea behind the Group A,B,C classifications. The idea, as I remember it, was that groups should be used across all FIA sports car classes. Group A was stock. Group B was homologated. Group C was prototype. And the specs were guaranteed frozen across a number years. The point was to make it easier and cheaper for more manufacturers to get into sports car racing. It was a great idea. The problem was that the specs where too loose, allowing the engineers to take the cars well beyond the expected performance levels. It is a shame that the rally troubles caused the whole group concept to cancelled. There were several other Group B cars that we never saw race because of the tragic events of Group B rallying. Such as Ferrari 288 GTO, Porsche 959, Jaguar XJ220 and Mercedes 190. A notable Group C we did get to see was the Porsche 962.
If this was actually like this, it has never been the case. Group N was 'stock' (actually reinforced weldings, skidplates, cage, different shock absorbers gearboxes and differentials were allowed. Just mods to the engine were hugely limited). Group A was tuned car, group B was low production volume homologated whatever manufacturers wanted, and group P for prototypes were prototypes. I remember there was group C in circuit racing, but in rallying there was group P, where it was possible to build just a single car and use it in national championships.
Metro wasnt the maker of the 6r4 that was the car it was based on (austin Metro)- actual manufactuer was british layland - but they were branded MG after the sportscar maker
Disagree! The Drivers know the risks whenever they take a corner and the spectators know the risks. They just need to make everyone sign a waiver to participate or spectate!
So sad that they easely could have done some tweaks in car/track security and crowd control and the group B would still be here today. But they dismissed all complaints until they got banned completely... The engineering in this motorsport was incredible, but all lost to some maniacs, who thought death people where just part of the game.
Wait, so they banned it because a driver went off a cliff because he took the turn wrong and died? Isn't this why we race as drivers because it's dangerous. Isn't that why group b was so popular. Yet in stead allowed spectators to crowd the roads and play frogger to get away some losing lumbs and braking bones and that wad okay 😂 but when an actual mistake is made by the driver and no guard rail is there to save him because its a city road 😆 its a problem. I would think these dudes would scope the track before racing on it, dont you think?
1. Toivonen didn't take a wrong turn 2. He wasn't the only death 3. Group B was leaps and bounds more dangerous than whatever racing you're claiming to have done 4. They DO "scope" the track before racing it 5. Toivonen himself before he died said that his Lancia was too fast It would have been utterly braindead for FISA to let Group B continue the way it was going. The planned Group S cars would have been even more ridiculous and likely would have resulted in more deaths.
Use to spend hours on gravel roads practicing driving after seeing these on tv. It was like your a bit late for rally but not late enough for the rigged factory team sports drink sponsors of modern racing.
Quattro Mommy (michele mouton) will forever be remembered, and if you dont know who that is, prepare for a youtube rabbit hole of epic racing lol
Mommy affff
Point of Order! 4WD wasn't invented (for road cars) by AUDI. It was invented by the Irish engineer Harry Ferguson. The first production car to use 4WD was the Jensen FF (Ferguson Formula), built between 1966 and 1971, which was also notable as the first car with Anti-Lock brakes, the Dunlop Maxaret system. AUDI bought an example of the FF to learn how it worked, and AFAIK, still own it as part of their (non-public) collection
The first production car with four-wheel drive (4WD) was the Spyker 60HP, introduced in 1903 by the Dutch brothers Jacobus and Hendrik-Jan SpijkerAd1. This vehicle was notable for its full-time
The second 4WD production car is often considered to be the GAZ-61, produced by the Soviet Union in 1938
@@guccifer2 While the Spyker 60hp was undoubtedly the first 4WD car, it was a prototype racing car, NOT a production road car. Likewise, the GAZ-61, while produced in sufficient numbers to count as a production vehicle, was designed mainly as an off-road vehicle. While it could be used on roads, that wasn't it's primary focus, much like the Willy's Jeep or LandRover.
While there were many 4WD vehicles prior to the Jensen FF, they were all either prototype/race cars (Bugatti built around 6-ish 4WD racers in the early '30's, and there were several one-off prototypes from the 1920's on), or designed for off-road use, with locking/locked differentials, which are problematic when used on-road. That's why early LandRover front hubs have to be manually locked to the driveshafts prior to going off-road, and unlocked before going back onto roads - as if they are left locked on when driving on road, they produce vicious tire shudder & understeer (& quite often break parts of the drivetrain).
The way that the Ferguson 4WD was different, was in the use of viscous (fluid) couplings instead of mechanical differentials for the front wheel drive & center differential. This prevented the tire shudder & other issues by dampening out the shock loadings that would otherwise be produced, which allowed the permanent use of 4WD in a road car for the first time, rather than needing to be manually selected when needed...
Oh, and just as an FYI, while the Spyker 60 was the first 4WD CAR, it wasn't the first 4WD Vehicle. That honor goes to the Diplock Steam Locomotive, a steam powered 4WD, 4WS, traction engine. Patented by the magnificently named Bramah Joseph Diplock in 1893, and built "shortly thereafter".
The issue was not even with the cars, but weak rollcages and almost complete lack of stages safety. People were standing on the road, competing who will get closer or even touch the car. Today Group B cars routinely take part in rallies and nothing bad happens.
Just found your channel, binge watched and subbed!
I’ve seen lots of groupB vids this is probably one of the best I’ve seen. I’ll subscribed to this
It's just insanity to think about the fact that in '86 there existed plans for Group S, a "regulation set" with even fewer rules and even lower production numbers. The Group S prototype built by Audi is still running to this day. Obviously it never got raced but just imagine
The 80s were the peak of engineering innovation and insanity
No no no, HOLD ON. The FIA are brutes and bullies and instead of doing the MINIMUM amount of safety, like having barriers in place and ropes that spectators could not pass, they instead went "Good job racers, teams and manufacturers, you blew an amazing sport, it's being removed because of YOU wanting to complain!"
Group B was preceded by Group 4 which needed 400 production cars, not 5000. That was Group 1. And the Peugeot 205 you showed in that ad is actually a Peugeot 104. The "rear mounted" engines were actually mid-mounted.
queen of the hill❤❤❤
Great channel. You're getting some really good view counts on each video. Great research, narration, and editing!
Where did you get the finger clip from
These Group B stories are fascinating and fun to hear.
But they are all missing the the idea behind the Group A,B,C classifications.
The idea, as I remember it, was that groups should be used across all FIA sports car classes.
Group A was stock.
Group B was homologated.
Group C was prototype.
And the specs were guaranteed frozen across a number years.
The point was to make it easier and cheaper for more manufacturers to get into sports car racing.
It was a great idea.
The problem was that the specs where too loose, allowing the engineers to take the cars well beyond the expected performance levels.
It is a shame that the rally troubles caused the whole group concept to cancelled.
There were several other Group B cars that we never saw race because of the tragic events of Group B rallying.
Such as Ferrari 288 GTO, Porsche 959, Jaguar XJ220 and Mercedes 190.
A notable Group C we did get to see was the Porsche 962.
If this was actually like this, it has never been the case. Group N was 'stock' (actually reinforced weldings, skidplates, cage, different shock absorbers gearboxes and differentials were allowed. Just mods to the engine were hugely limited). Group A was tuned car, group B was low production volume homologated whatever manufacturers wanted, and group P for prototypes were prototypes. I remember there was group C in circuit racing, but in rallying there was group P, where it was possible to build just a single car and use it in national championships.
Dacia wanted to join with MD87,but by the time it was finished,Group B stoped
Metro wasnt the maker of the 6r4 that was the car it was based on (austin Metro)- actual manufactuer was british layland - but they were branded MG after the sportscar maker
*CURRENTLY WEARING A GROUP B SHIRT❤*
Joaquim santos was driving a diabolic rs200 not a blue one
The whole story of the Portugal crash is miss told my man, love your content tho.
God I wish Group B came back
What happened to the RB20 video?
Disagree! The Drivers know the risks whenever they take a corner and the spectators know the risks. They just need to make everyone sign a waiver to participate or spectate!
Impossible to regulate.
The events are held at public roads. You dont pay to attend a WRC event. If you ever do, its for the special stages.
FUCK IT! WE BALL!!!
Do a can am one!🎉🎉
That ai generated thumbnail is atrocious
So sad that they easely could have done some tweaks in car/track security and crowd control and the group B would still be here today. But they dismissed all complaints until they got banned completely... The engineering in this motorsport was incredible, but all lost to some maniacs, who thought death people where just part of the game.
Group b died and pikes peak was born
Wait, so they banned it because a driver went off a cliff because he took the turn wrong and died? Isn't this why we race as drivers because it's dangerous. Isn't that why group b was so popular. Yet in stead allowed spectators to crowd the roads and play frogger to get away some losing lumbs and braking bones and that wad okay 😂 but when an actual mistake is made by the driver and no guard rail is there to save him because its a city road 😆 its a problem. I would think these dudes would scope the track before racing on it, dont you think?
1. Toivonen didn't take a wrong turn
2. He wasn't the only death
3. Group B was leaps and bounds more dangerous than whatever racing you're claiming to have done
4. They DO "scope" the track before racing it
5. Toivonen himself before he died said that his Lancia was too fast
It would have been utterly braindead for FISA to let Group B continue the way it was going. The planned Group S cars would have been even more ridiculous and likely would have resulted in more deaths.
Use to spend hours on gravel roads practicing driving after seeing these on tv. It was like your a bit late for rally but not late enough for the rigged factory team sports drink sponsors of modern racing.