Stuart D10 - # 7 -- Machining the Cylinders - Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- In this segment, I'll true up the cylinder castings and machine the steam chest ports. Some setup shop gems are included. This video just had too many segments and operations to show in one video. Part 2 will release very shortly as well. Take a Look !!
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Joe, you DO explain very well, one of the reasons I follow you
I appreciate that.
Ah! Another masterful, educational and entertaining video. Well done. Your years of experience have allowed you to point out things that didn't look right and adjust so the part is functional and looks right. More importantly is you took the time to point out the issues and more importantly how to adjust to make the part correctly. Thanks
To anyone building this, or planning to, I hope my observations and dimensions help.
The amount of genius, yet simple, tips and tricks in this video alone are amazing.
Thank you.
Coming along nicely Joe. Gauge pins have been added to my wish list for the workshop!
Thanks Preso. A gage pin set is a really handy thing to have.
At 24-25 mins in, using the dowel pins on an irregular to locate center will go into the old memory bank for sure (@@)! Thx Joe, some more great tips & tricks, Bear
Hey Bear, thanks for stopping by. I hope all is well.
Back in the 1960’s, I built the V10 entirely on a Myford Super 7 lathe with milling attachment, no milling machine and my first project aside from my training in Pathology, so a very amateur in terms of machining. These models are certainly a challenge in terms of odd imperial measurements and all odd number BA fasteners. It did take me about a year to finish the engine, boiler and burner, which I put in a model ship and steamed it on a local lake. Now heading towards 86, I still have the hardware in my collection, which has travelled from The UK, Germany, and finally Tasmania Australia. I doubt the Vertical 10 I built would meet your level of fit and finish, but it was a lot of fun back then. Greetings from the Southern Cross Observatory-Tasmania 42 South. A serious ‘interest’ throughout my medical career and on into retirement as a professional. Thanks for sharing your skills and educating us mere enthusiastic beginners. 👍🛠🔭🇦🇺🦘
Happy to do it. Thanks for the comment.
The way you control your mill suggests that you were hell on an Etch a Sketch as a kid. Nice job Joe. I'm surprised that Stewart didn't put cores in the angled holes like they do on other models.
Great comment, and spot on. I loved those. Have you seen the mill skill maze on my website. Its an etch a sketch trainer for manual mills.
Many thanks Joe for the detailed analysis and sound practice. I’m near to starting my S50H so I sought out this series again to jog my now 75yo brain ! Brilliant thanks.
I'm happy just watching you...this is way beyond my capabilities !!! Thanks again Joe !
Joe, I'll probably never make this model. What I hope to do is to apply the principles you illustrate to situations I may encounter in my shop. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
You sure must have nerves of steel with some of these machining procedures Joe
Some make me hold my breath, but I trust the feel of the machine and logic behind the approach. That helps.
Gary Player is quoted as saying: "The more I practice, the luckier I get." Practicing good techniques helps calibrate the eye.
Thanks for the detailed explanations of your planning and setups.
It’s funny to me when creators say “I won’t show that cause it’s boring,” but people on the internet seek out and watch videos of people chewing crunchy food loudly. We’d watch you file for hours, Joe. Hours. 😂😂
Eh, maybe it's second channel material.
Ddddd
Great video Joe - thanks. Great project. It wouldn't be too difficult to do this without cad - as long as your trigonometry isn't too rusty.
100% agree.
The problem with part 1 is that I can’t wait for part 2. 👏👏👍😀
Wednesday.
@@joepie221 👏👏👍😀
Great explanations again, thanks for taking us with you in this journey!
File work is never boring Joe, content is content brother. 👍👍
Would be interesting to talk with someone who built this kit before cad . Some of them old guys were pretty sharp 😉 ! Hopefully the makers of this kit are watching and will add a little more info in future kits .
CAD isn't required. I could do it without. It would take some geometry and trig, but easily done.
Hi Joe, there was a time in the not so distant past that CAD didn't exist, and in the early days of CAD the modelling functions were not even thought of, the same can be said of the electronic calculator, but far more complex designs existed, we resorted to manual drafting and slide rules and things like log and trig tables to determine that information with a high degree of accuracy. And steam engines, IC engines and even jet aeroplane engines were well in existence well before electronic calculators, computers, CAD/CAM and digital read outs were even someone's dream.
Cheers Dennis.
The port really doesn't require a sophisticated CAD model and drawing, but I do it to generate decent detail drawings for my personal use and for these videos. They are features that can be found with basic geometry and some trig.
Not sure at all I'd have found it easy to decide on set ups for these!. Your thinking is as always very intriguing and coming up with a logical approach. So many factors involved and CAD sure helps. Fascinating.
CAD does help, but isn't absolutely necessary. This part would have been easier if it was square. Thats for sure. :)
Hey Joe, Thank You Sir, Great as always
Greetings David. Thanks for stopping by.
Another great video with the instruction to help out all of us novices. Thanks
If you purchase the booklet "Building a Vertical Steam Engine" by Andrew Smith, the author guides you through machining a Stuart 10V and with the exception of the crankshaft and middle main bearing everything about the build is the same as the model Joe is machining. The author built the vertical 10v with a lathe and a milling attachment.
Andrew Whale and Keith Appleton have excellent vids on these engines.
Andrew did as the book suggested and set the port face of the cylinder at a 25 deg angle to the vice (made a template) and successfully drilled the ports.
Having done the same using my cheapo drill press vice I managed to do it as well.
This model does not require NASA tolerances to produce an excellent running engine.
This is my first engine and aside from machining a tack hammer in high-school that is the extent of my machining experience. If I can do it anyone can.
If you screw up, who cares. Order another casting. This is a learning experience, people make mistakes.
It wouldn't surprise me if these videos are putting some people off. Not everyone has access to a fully equipped machine shop, is competent with CAD and can afford to blow £$€ making aluminium fixtures for absolutely everything. As you say, plenty of people got beautifully running machines with nothing more than a drill press and a Myford hobby lathe.
@Jamie Foster Agreed, however, it shouldn't piss people off. Joe is presenting his angle on how to machine this project and he's 100% right. All I'm saying is to say "it has to be" machined a certain way, with primo equipment and methods to obtain a specific dimension on these models is not so.
Hell, I don't even have a Myford. Lol I have a Chinese 8x14 lathe and a cheapo "mill drill" with a round column and middle of the road tooling and I do just fine . That's what I can afford and that's what I use.
@@davehughes2424 all my machines are at least 70 years old and some are over 100. And i have just as much fun
Great stuff - as always seeing the combination of process - analyzing the casting to the drawing, figuring the geometry of required features and then the actual machining is really enlightening. This will be a wonderful engine.
Thanks. I may add a few Joe Pie extras to the final product. We have to wait and see.
Wow, an awfully of detail figuring. Many steps easy to miss by us amateurs. well done Joe, I always appreciate your lessons in planning and precision, bravo!
Thanks.
Thanks Joe. Just amazes me your work around to everything. Just shows your experience and expertise. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
These kits should be a mandatory part of apprentice training. They make you think.
I can appreciate the accuracy you impart when building these models especially due to their size. I would bet your finished product will run more efficiently than most because of just that. Any more accuracy and you might just have a perpetual motion engine capable of running for years without any steam. That and. A little oil for lubrication.
One day each year.
Very good approach Joe! Makes my machinist's heart happy!
Very Meticulous work,Joe.Thank you for your effort.
thanks for watching.
The PM head appears more straight forward. These cylinders appear more complex esp. in light of the missing information on the shop drawings. On the other hand, these cylinders are more period correct in that they provide for insulation around the cylinders which was done to boost the efficiency of the engine. Sometimes, the cylinders would be covered with wood stays for this purpose. This makes the machining process a bit more difficult. But your usual approach shows your experience as a machinist. Cant wait to see you whip out your balls and show us why trig rocks the machine universe. This engine is proving to become a true masterpiece of the steam world. Lovin It! Beauuuuuutiiiiiiifullllll....
Thank you.
You have certainly done enough work on this model to have built a full size engine. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Thanks Harold. The best is yet to come. This thing has a lot of fine detail when its done.
This ticked all of my pedantic ways of working. I'm like you, I like things to look just right. I did wonder about the rod stock being used until I worked it out. The fixed jaw is your reference surface for each cut to square up the part, if you used the moving jaw without the rod stock it would pull/push the part off axis from your reference surface. I'm not a machinist, never have been but I have started buying parts for a little Sherline lathe as I'm finding myself wanting to make these models.
Thankyou so much for sharing such valuable skills, have yourself a great day 🙂
Another really useful video. Enjoy learning how to hold and machine these awkward shapes. Time to get some gauge pins! I have Stuart kit to build.
awesome discussion/build along with perfect video production….enjoyed
Greetings Chuck. Thanks for stopping by.
Great video Joe, you are one genius mathematical machinist! You made my brain hurt while you were describing that work!
Sorry about the brain hurt. Thanks for the compliment.
Same here. It is good to be able to go back and view the moves a couple times.
I have been waiting for this video all week. I am happy to see you chose to do the cylinders.Great job as always
I also was waiting for it. However I cannot watch it on any of my four connections. It just stops after few minutes. TH-cam is having issues again ~~
I watched it with no problems.Some videos, I have had to shut down and restart.
Another pleasant Saturday thanks you! Cheers from Fla!
When I made my Stuart D10 I modelled the cylinder in CAD and then 3D printed the part as a dummy check. Then I could also use that 3D printed part as a setup jig for angles etc and checking for the port drilling.
Hi Joe, I'm in the process of making a single cylinder version of this engine and am following along with great interest. Unfortunately, i got bit when putting in the first angled transfer hole in my cylinder and had the cutter exit in the wrong place. I plan on filling the hole with metal epoxy resin and going at it again using your method and dimensions. Many thanks for this very informative video series and helping me rectify a challenge that my poor 65 year old brain was having trouble overcoming.
Very nice machining.
Thanks.
Nice work, Joe...and good innovation.
Interesting approach.
I'm sure there are many.
@@joepie221 There are. I have done most of the work on a lathe followed by the valve surface and steam passages on a mill, though the former could be done on a lathe and the latter on a drill press.
G'day Joe, I have just checked my drawing and the 1/8" dimension is shown across the center port as you reasoned. Great series, Thanks.
Thanks.
Excellent video as always. It's cool to see the process. I haven't got a shop to make a real one of these but I did a digital 3D model of a very similar engine a few months back. I found some plans onlone that appear to have more dimensions than the plan you've got to work from. Even so, those ports required some eyeballing and educated guess.
good job mr Joe
Nice, no very nice, work Joe! When you do the cylinder bore if you think a precision honed bore would improve the performance let me know. If you leave 1-2 thou and send em I would be happy to home then to size for you.
I appreciate the offer. Thanks.
Fascinating Joe Pie...but this on gave me an ice cream headache!
Brain freeze is no fun. But usually worth it.
Thanks Joe
you do very fine work. thanks for sharing your knowledge keep up the good work.
Nice Joe! For some reason my brain wanted to start with indicating the bore hole then get the side square.
Can you see why that may be a deceiving way to go ? I believe it would only throw off the connecting rod for the valve and the engine would still work, but I wanted mine to all be inline.
@@joepie221 Yep, I do now. Thanks Joe
Thanks JOE
The Stuart 10V is a single cylinder version of the D10. The 1/8" dimension of the centre slot on the cylinder casting is correctly dimensioned as you suspect it should be.
Can't wait!!
Thanks for sharing
Thank’s Joe!
Hi John. Good to hear from you. Steam engine #2 coming up. My First one was getting lonely.
Some people use an eyeometer, you got an eyecrometer. Nice
That got very close. It was truly an honest presentation.
You would think that the steam port slots would need to be centered in the direction the slide valve moves so it opens and closes the ports properly, but the valve is adjustable, so it is not critical they are perfectly centered. On the other hand, if they are not centered to the ends of the cylinder, the 2 angled holes will not intersect their ports exactly at the same spots (which is not critcal either).
Had to do something very similar when figuring out how to cross pilot a pair of Sun T-11A valve cavities. My angle ended up being 40°.
Thanks again
You bet.
Hello my friend. Looks like we are both staying busy. Aside from the typo's these initially look like quality castings. As you say, careful consideration is needed as no two castings are alike. Generally not a serious problem as there is usually a fair bit of extra meat to allow for having the finished piece made to look/be Identical. Those pesky sand filled pockets can get up and bite you where the sun don't shine. With the vents/air/steamways on the flat side a bit of porting may need to be done in the future to maximize flow. Time alone will tell that story eh. Onward to get that ball a roiling eh, LOL. With being away for so long now from being on the tools now leaves me in envié every time you post. Wow, The human noggin can hold a lot of things that we can certainly forget them until being woken up again. A strange computer of its own for sure. Well, , , old friend. Thanks again for waking up a lot of forgotten skills and memories. You sure are an easy one to give the thumbs up a tickle. Take care and I will most defiantly be here for the next post !
Thanks for dropping by. I hope you continue to enjoy this series. This is a great little model.
@@joepie221 And thank you Joe for having us into the shop. If we didn't know it these could be full sized working machines. The flat belt tech was one of a simpler time and sensible machines. No DRO, no wasted Materials. Museum pieces that are carefully kept in running condition fascinate me. They are the machines that made the machines that are still here making the CNC's and DRO's of tomorrow. You and I have watched the LED come to be. Pencils and paper were at/on every machine. Blue prints were actually blue lines on paper. Rarely seen these days. The past was/is full of romantic times. Now it is just a push to get it done and of course the all mighty buck eh. You and I are a mix of new and old tech and a teachers to boot. When our time comes we are taking a lot with us. When/if the SHTF we will be the ones to start it over. You know, That romantic stuff, LOL. See you soon my friend.
Thanks.
The most precise steam engine ever made? Possibly.
Lets hope its at least 1 of 2. :)
Thankyou 👍
You bet.
cheers!
It would seem to me that if you’re using two identical gauge pins and you’re sweeping them at the exact same height to establish a centre point that it shouldn’t matter if you’ve found the widest part of the radius vertically as long as you find it horizontally. The contact points would be equal on each one. Is there something I’m not understanding?
If you have to jump a feature and move the quill, reestablishing a common plane is a good practice. Its also good to be aware the pin diameter can give a false reading if its not in the same plane. Your suggestion is valid and will work if the indicator height isn't moved.
@@joepie221 Thanks for the explanation, I learned something.
Ah those steam ports aren't too bad. I've always just eyeballed it and they came out ok. They just have to break through somewhere into the rectangular holes. It doesn't have to be perfect.
No cad like me? I would check the drawing dimensions and use a protractor to measure the angle.
Done to scale, that would probably work.
There are a few of us left that know how to do that. My machine shop is a bench top drill press and a couple drawers of good quality files, LOL.
“For want of a machined true surface, a kingdom was lost…” Yeah, I know that wasn’t the original saying, but that’s because they didn’t have steam engines back then. 😅 (or machine shops.)
Give me a file and a case of beer and stand back.... :)
Great one. Although all the calculations made me dizzy....😅
👍
🦅🇺🇸 🦅
That angle at 7:52 is just over one radian. Had to look up the conversion , almost thought it was intended to be one radian ..
Hi Joe. One thing that doesn’t make sense is how does the steam escape the cylinder once it’s done work on the piston? I don’t see any hole in the middle of the cylinder for the steam to escape and go up the smokestack (on a steam locomotive). Also, where are the release valves in the cylinder so the steam can eject any condensed water in the cylinder before you hydro-lock the engine?
The cylinders are small enough so the condensated water can be ejected through the steam exhaust.
The exhaust steam never escapes through a hole in the middle of the cylinder, it gets pushed out through the inlet ports at both ends of the cylinder when the piston is on its back stroke.
The fresh steam pressurizes the steam chest and enters one end of the cylinder through one of the outer ports while the other two ports are covered by the sliding valve. Since the underside of the sliding valve is hollow, it connects the other outer port with the center port allowing the exhaust steam to escape through the center port, and that port could be connected to a nozzle in the smoke stack.
Steam escapes via the same pipe which injects it. The valve which will rest on top of the three slots in this cylinder is designed to connect one of the two outer slots to the centre slot, so steam can get out that way. The valve then moves so that the other outer slot is connected instead. At any given time, one pipe connects to the steam source and the other to the exhaust (give or take some time when neither are connected)
Condensate drain valves are an optional extra. The bosses opposite the steam port face can be drilled and tapped for them. Not strictly necessary on an engine this small, but nice to have.
A fun question. So there are two pipes connected to the steam chest. One going to the center port, the other to the main cavity of the chest. Generally, you supply the pressure through the body of the steam chest. Since the valve can only cover the center port and one of the end ports at one time, the pressure then goes through the uncovered port, pushing the piston from that end. A the same time, the other end, having the center port and the end port connected, allows for the air to be vented out of the engine.
The reason for using the chest as the pressure inlet port is that it pushes the valve body down against the chest bottom, providing a sealing pressure. You could also introduce the pressure through the middle port, but that tends to push the valve up off that surface and so is not as effective due to the leaking.
Joe machined 3 ports on the steam-chest surface of the cylinders. The outer ones are combined inlet/outlet to their respective ends of the cylinder. The center one is the primary outlet (exhaust). The the primary inlet is in a different part of the steam chest.
The slide valve (seen @ 10:40) is dimensioned to bridge one combined port to the primary outlet and leave the opposite combined port exposed to the steam chest. The exposed port admits steam to it's end of the cylinder, pushing the piston toward the other end. Meanwhile, with the opposite combined port now bridged to the primary outlet, there is a path for the steam being pushed out that end to escape.
Always fun watching these. Question: why would the ports be cast in, if you’ve got to machine them anyway? Seems like unnecessary (and potentially part scrapping) foundry work to me.
Agreed. I think they should omit that from future castings, but they may be there ( and function ) for builders without small end mills.
Joe says: "That is my X, Y zero."
I hear: "That is my ex-wife, Cyril."
Make it Cheryl and we can agree.
You’re in Austin Texas. I moved to Killeen Texas the day the F5 tornado hit Jarrell in 1997.
Great instructions by the way. Always enjoy watching your videos especially the shop math.
I moved to Austin the weekend that hit. We got 2 spin off tornados from that. I've never experienced wind and rain that hard. Jarrell just got erased.
May I ask why when you were milling the surfaces on the cylinders you wouldn't use a fly cutter....I think it leaves a pretty finish?
'Cause of the "mess" it would've made...
Sigh...22:50
At 26:45. Why dont you just sweep the vise jaws
Absolutely no reason. That would have worked too.
Not having looked at the actual shop drawing in detail, did Stuart have any finish marks or machine details regarding the port details. They cored the initial ports. I know this this is just a model but I am an OCD steam head. It appears that they pre-machined the valves for this kit. So the width and location of the ports becomes an issue to think about as it affects both the steam lap as well as the exhaust lap which is ultimately tied through a bilgrim diagram to the operation of the engine including the eccentric throw. Of course, the lead must be set at assembly when the eccentric is timed. Sooooo, did you have any numbers to hit regarding the location and width of the steam ports and the exhaust port?
I don't believe there are any finishing marks on the print I have. As for my ports, they were machined in coordination with the valve cam stroke and valve undersize recess geometry allowed for. The engine should run as intended by the designer. The actual position of the valve is adjustable inline with the stroke within the steam chest. Lets keep our fingers crossed, but I'm very confident.
@@joepie221 I am confident that this animal is going to run just fine and look even better. These are items to put in the glass coffee table for your shop front office.
I know folks it’s just a model! The engine I am working on is a bit bigger….. it runs actual line shaft machines.
But even in a model your trained ear can hear issues and adjustment problems.
Balance is a biggie! Joe went to extremes to check the fore and aft gap of the valve in the PM engine. Out of balance is like the sound of finger nails on a chalk board for a steam head.
Then there is lead. This is like the advance and retard in old engines. Gotta get the fire going before you roll over TDC. It is set thru the placement of the eccentric during timing. Easy to adjust.
The PIA issues are steam lap and exhaust lap. These are dependent on the size and location of the steam and exhaust ports in conjunction with both the overall size of the valve and the exhaust relief machined on the bottom of the valve.
We love our computers and Tesla’s these days but the work of Hugo Bilgram stands as an iconic reason why trig and geometry are so wonderful to the machinist.
The Bilgram diagram relates all these numbers together relating the valve and chest dimensions to the cross head dims to the crank dims and the eccentric dims. Just Awsome! A brilliant and true engineer.
This engine is close to the upper end of complexity. Two cylinders, two eccentric assemblies and a Stephenson reversing linkage.
The vertical nature of the engine does not help. It results in a shorter than normal crank shaft affected by angular variation. This has a significant affect on the angular timing events and the upper and lower events are far from symmetrical. This is also known as rod angularity which favors longer connecting rods.
A steam heads wet dream!
In a model, it does not really matter but the exhaust lap and steam cut off are important. Steam, unlike compressed air exhibits unique properties including expansion. You want to cut off the steam before you reach end of stroke and open the exhaust port. Get that last bit of poop in the pants before you exhaust out.
In the engines most of have seen, the steam chests were easy. But to avoid a patent law suit, FO Stanley used a single centric chest on two cylinders with a narrow round cover that threaded on.
What a pain in the ass! The D slide valves ride on lapped surfaces. The only way we have figured out on how to get in there is with a special tool mounted in a large antique metal shaper!!!! And this in our age of fancy CNC machines.
Nuff said… let’s resume our normally programmed showing of Jo Pie. His talents, articulate voice and presentation and his childish enthusiasm for steam is a real joy.
I was wondering. What is the name of the CAD program your using in this video?
I meant to ask the same question. I have always used 2-D autocad LT which does not support 3-D models. I have not examined your work in detail yet, but I have a question. Do the steam ports have a single angle or dual angles? In other words, do they approach the cylinder entry port from the steam port straight on or is there a an angle between the steam port and pseudo centric entry of the head feature? On the PM head, the drill holes enter at a single angle of about 20 to 22 degrees (I forget the exact angle). That is why you could use the single tooling vise in conjunction with the trammed kurt vise. Of course, the tooling ball is a god send here. Even if you have to trig out two angles this time, the tooling ball comes to the rescue. On the other hand, if its only a single angle, then its a straight forward operation.
My Bad! I thought for some reason that there were two holes entering each end of the cylinder. There is only one hole. So that makes for a single angle.
One hole could still be a compound angle. Thankfully here, its not required.
I'm fortunate to have access to a lathe and a mill, both fully manual though, and am familiar with the basic use of them both. What is a good starters project to learn more as I go and have something cool when I finish?
Ball peen hammers have always been right up there with V blocks and vise stops.
@@joepie221 thanks for the suggestions!
Joe,
At 13:10, how did you set the angle of the cast surface relative to the vise?
You'll notice a thick parallel is placed on top of the rear jaw temporarily. I used that as a physical plane and felt for the casting to make a smooth transition to that surface. I did it strictly by feel for the initial cleanup cut then checked with pins for the finish passes, at a later date.
8:27 Is the angle 57.6365 in minutes the same as degrees?
29:26 I'm not a machinist. What is CRS and BC?
No. Any decimal of a degree must be multiplied x 60 to get the true value. 50.50 degrees is actually 50 degrees 30 minutes. Because .50 x 60 = 30.
@@joepie221 thanks
⭐🙂👍
"The English CRS term gave me a mind set for a BC."
Can someone translate for me? No idea what that means
Also, do I hear someone clicking the x and y zero button three times each? To make sure it is zeroed
I'm assuming CRS means centers. BC means bolt circle. BC means all holes are the same distance from a center point. The clicking may be the axis selection followed by the zero entry. Multiple clicks are not unusual here.
@@joepie221 in the UK the "English" term BC would or should be PCD or " Pitch Circle Diameter" CRS is certainly "Centres" More than 40 years ago I used to teach what was then called T.D. Technical Drawing., the old way lol drawing board, Tee square, 45/90 set square and 30/60/90 set squares, rule & compasses and various pencils of 1H, 2H, & HB. 😅
@@joepie221 thanks,
You can use that steam engine to drive the machines you made good video
☹🇬🇧
The first steam engine I made th-cam.com/video/Ytx2wbigCHk/w-d-xo.html would be more appropriate. These were found in boats and small rail yard tenders.
✋🏼🇦🇺👍🏼
I make parts
Mr. Crispin is an excellent resource for these complicated setups. th-cam.com/video/Gan_i2fXSmc/w-d-xo.html
100% agreed. Crispin is a very talented machinist.
Or you can contact Keith Appleton and ask him how he does it?
He certainly seems to have more steam engine experience than I do.
Currently re-watching these as I’m just starting my first model engine build.
I’ve been asked to sell some built models from someone who’s died & I get to keep a couple of sets of castings the guy didn’t get around to, so I’m having a go.
I’m not content to do it up to certain other TH-cam model builders standards, I wanna try my best to get close to Joe Pie standards.
JPS I like that! 😁
Thanks, I'm enjoying the project.
Thanks, me too.
I’ve got a question for you Joe;
I was watching another channel recently & someone held a cylindrical rod in a milling vice between 2 V-blocks. This person said that it’s not usually done like this as the part is “over constrained”.
Now, that doesn’t sound right to me. Surely, as long as you’re not damaging the part, there’s no such thing as “over constraint”?
It’s been bugging me since I saw it, I was going to email you directly about it, but I didn’t want to bother you “at work”.
What do you think?
It's like the difference between a 4 jaw self centering chuck and a 3 jaw self centering chuck. A 3 jaw self centering chuck will always grip a round(ish) part with all 3 jaws but a 4 jaw self centering chuck may only have 3 jaws in contact with the workpiece. Over constrain means you may think you have good and repeatable work positioning but you do not. In the case of 2 V blocks it probably will not matter as long as one of the V blocks is free to slide and rotate against one of the vice jaw faces and not be horizontally parallel to the other one, depends on what is trying to be achieved.
It's impossible for a 3-legged stool to wobble.
To me, over constrained always was used in regards to a feature, not a setup. The V blocks may have been used for some off camera geometric tolerance not easily achieved in a vise.
@@joepie221 it was something Quinn said on a Blondihacks video a few weeks ago. It just didn’t make sense to me at the time (it still doesn’t). It was a single process, not to be repeated, a piece of rod (solid round bar stock) if I remember correctly, in the mill.
It sounded like something someone would say when they’re trying to appear more clever than they actually are.
Thanks for the input. It was just one of those things that stuck in my mind.
@@martinconnelly1473 yes, I’ve always avoided the self cantering 4-jaw chucks, especially the cheaper ones. They seem like a bit of a fad to me & as you’ve stated the whole idea of 4 point contact often doesn’t work.
I’m still tempted by a 6-jaw though, which is ridiculous considering how I feel about the 4-jaw version 🤣
Joe Ok I am a old timer ( 76) but now I use cad and CNC mil manual lathe and another mill , I do use many of the methods you demonstrate, but in the past I used a home made gadget that looked like a uni mic with a feeler you placed in the port and a pointer where the mic body would have been , the pointer and the probe tip lined up , in use you placed the prob in the port an the pointer at the position of the hole start , set the cylinder in the vice with the contraption vertical , that how some people did it , BTW there are lots of ways .......
Mr. Crispin used an interesting device to do a port on his loco build. It showed the entry and exit points of the proposed hole. I had never seen one. I'm sure there are many approaches that would yield a successful result.
Great series Joe. I inherited a set of Stuart 5a castings. Going to start soon. Plan to follow you methods
eyecrometer sometimes never lets me down
Awesome video as usual! Love these model builds, what cad/cam software are you using?
PTC Pro-Engineer Wildfire 4.0 The latest release is called CREO
Going to have to watch this one a couple of times to make sure I'm getting it Jòe. Brilliant again and thanks. You have motivated me to get back into things . Regards from Wales
Good to hear.
Joe another awesome lesson, your strive for perfection is inspiring and I love it, as you say not absolutely required but it’s your engine and that’s how you build.
If we all try to achieve the best in every little part we make the better the whole will become I love the way you work, film and explain everything. So please keep up the great works and Thank you so much.
I appreciate that. Thanks.