David Harvey: The Limits of Social Democracy and of the Welfare State (2/2)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2019
- The main alternative to neoliberalism is the proposed renewal of social democracy, such as in the form of Bernie Sanders' proposals. But to move forward we need to discuss the limits of a welfare state that ultimately does not change class relations, says David Harvey
Subscribe to our page and support our work at therealnews.com/donate.
I work for NGOs and I fully agree. Committed though many people in them are, they work to excuse the non-delivery of states.
Yep me too and I've been saying the same for decades, has made me more and more unpopular especially now that people are starting to wake up and can see why I say it. The word charity is a word that should repulse everyone but it doesn't.
Charity: the opiate of the wealthy and therein lies the problem......
@@campbellbamble5138 Oscar Wilde's 'The Soul of Man Under Socialism' is, in a large part, a brilliant, swingeing attack on charity: 'Charity degrades and demoralises. There is also this to be said: it is immoral to use the proceeds of private property to cure the hideous ills caused by private property. It is immoral and unfair.'
they are delivering -- just not to us. it is socialism for the political class and elite -- crumbs for us.
Capitalist class support NGOs everywhere and take advantage of the kindness of some part of the qualificated workers. This is the cultural hegemony of the capitalist class.
people vs capital ===> you lose
people+state vs capital===> a chance to win
This explains why CCP consolidates state-control over the national economy and capital flow. The Chinese are clever.
飛シャークWolffgang It works a bit differently than that, not exactly confrontational. Basically the state utilizes its capital to 1. deliver welfare and resources to where other capital would only be in their nightmares, 2. keeps the capitalists in line without outright destroying them, so that the society could benefit from the fast growth.
There are a lot of problems in practicing but this way, the wedges between capitalism will prevent the corporate capitalists from growing into some Frankenstein.
Not considered: capital + state vs. people ===> as now, people lose BIG!
@@cougar1861 absolutely
Capital + state = fascism.
Look it up.
So yea, not a good combination.
This is why it's important for the people to unite against the powerful. Because no state oligarchy can take on the entirety of its citizenry, whom fund everything with their taxes.
FREE DAVID HARVEY!
So insightful and clarifying. Needed to be said to better focus remedy...movement...change.
D That ‘prison jumper orange’ shirt certainly adds an extra dimension, especially against that post-mortem institutional backdrop... 😏
9:25 well said~
Essential and important interview with one of the world's foremost economic thinkers. Also some of the most intelligent comments on TH-cam.
Excellent interview
The social democracy model is better than the current trash. Of course we must restructure beyond capitalism. We should strive and organize toward a techno socialistic society that moves humans away from working to live and toward work for species/planetary advancement
I've been doing a deep dive on the structure and evolution of Capitalism and Dr. Harvey, the D@W team and the TRNN team have played a valuable role in my current thesis of the structure of Capital in motion. This is my current thesis; it is a dialectic in its truest form; in search of a critique; an antithesis; which leads to a synthesis and a new thesis. Capitalism evolved from Feudalism; a class social structure of Aristocracy; the land owner and everybody else as ordained by the Church. Capitalism; Industrialization is a class structure ordained by Liberalism and the classical economic model. Industrialization creates value and the individual with accumulated value becomes the Aristocracy of Capitalism. This form of Capitalism requires money as Capital and accumulated value takes the form of accumulated money. As Capitalism evolves money Capital in the form of Finance starts to represent more and more of the value; the social component of Capitalism and this is ordained by the neo-classical economic model and a neo-liberal logic. The Capitalism verses Socialism debate revolves around the individual defining the collective or the collective defining the individual. What seems to be happening is more of a Hegelian conceptual idealism evolution. The universe (our climate emergency) is defining our society (Capitalism is collapsing) and our new post Carbon/Capitalist reality will define who we are as individuals. This may not be my thesis tomorrow but I'm sure it will be a synthesis of this logic.
Wow, I learned a lot... Thx Mr. Harvey and The Real News
Policies and procedures keep up down. We need to learn about money. The rich do not work for money. The poor and middle class are taught to work for it. Our school systems only teach us to be workers only!!
Harvey says that expropriate of land by peasants in South America represented a real attack up class relations because it represented taking power (productive power and assets) away from the landed gentry. Very well, I would argue that something he would probably call a social Democractic reform in the U.S.--Medicare for All as described in Congressional bill HR 1384--does the same thing. It transfers (expropriates?) a huge stream of income, about $1.25 trillion annually, out of the hands of American private investor owned corporations, and turns that money over to a public entity. So passing that bill would in effect break the power of private insurers (one of Wall Street's biggest blocks) and relieve ordinary people of the high cost of health insurance premiums, deductibles and co-insurance, etc. Sounds like a real attack on class relations.
The too big to fail experience showed us the reality is these multi national corporations get too big in our current caplistist system. The solution is either to force a regulatory maximize size for corporations or to nationalize the services. I would choose a maximum allowed size and to break up any company which chooses to grow beyond that maximum safe size where their failure will not endanger the rest of our economy.
Dan A: I think you are getting a bit socialistic, you want to eliminate all the “fun” that is capitalism, going broke when you fail?Capitalism is an aggressive economic policy as there are always competitors popping up, challenging the “establishment.” I happen to agree with you wholeheartedly.
@@Raykibb1 lol I would be happy to let them fail and go bankrupt I just want to regulate the market enough that they don't hold the government hostage for their losses.
You guys have to fix your upload volume, it plays only half as loud as every other video
Most profound, as government is nothing more that the organized morality of society, this reality should be the number one topic of both church and state, and yet, both are dead silent about it.
...the organised morality of society -That's what the unarmed people of St Petersbourg thought in 1905, before being fired upon by the national guard (Bloody Sunday).
Greg looks maaaad nervous interviewing Harvey. Really important question he asked though, and, of course, a great response.
we need banks to only be public utilities instead of the predators we have now. and we need interest free money backed by real assets like gold so the foreign adventurism can be stopped.
yes and no. Commodity backed currencies are designed as asset-inflationary mechanisms for capital exploitation and frontier growth. The asset-bubble inflation-until-collapse cycle is structurally imposed as an open feedback loop, which is meant to destabilize the civilization that hasn't fulfilled its mission of resource control and corruption mitigation. This was done by removing the traditional generational jubilees so that creative-destruction of the nation-state construct would iterate upon the ideas of social democracy until a stable version could be achieved. Unironically, it is the commodification and financialization of fiat currencies that has accelerated civilization collapse. Commodity-backed cryptocurrencies will further accelerate the stratification and disparity of wealth until resource exhaustion. So, it's not that the World Banks needs to be stopped, it needs to become systemically irrelevant through the substitution of morally accountable direct-democratically owned global cryptocurrencies that destabilize institutional corruption and social distortion.
Ya know what a state takeover often leads to under neoliberalism? Privatization. It's very likely a short term fix, same as breaking em up. Worker owned, worker managed seems to have the best shot at not backsliding so much. But we keep waiting on politicians that will never be that brave.
06:54 Complete Capitalist Class Expropriation.
How did that work out of south Africa???????????????????
The ANC is a neo-liberal party. Anyway, things are a lot better for the majority who never had electricity, no access to decent jobs, to use the beaches etc. Maybe when Afrikaners had power they should have focused a bit more on the education of the majority so they wouldn't be having such a hard time governing the country now?
Is this a jailhouse interview?
Lol. I was thinking the same thing. Great content tho.
Red is the new Orange! 🎳
yes, "the state", needs to clawback everything from private entities. patents, tech, everything. take back the airwaves, take back the fate of nations
I hope that I'm misunderstanding David Harvey's resignation to the ideological assumptions of incrementalism. The most harmful of assumptions is that the global population will not reach detente through consensus but must rather revert to appeasement due to an inability to transcend injustice through systemic revolution. Is a realization of a mutual plurality that easily dismissed?
cant hear either one of them, (probably just as well
How much limits are there if corporations pay the same tax rate as me 30 percent no deductions and wealthy pay social security taxes on 100 percent of their income like me.
And capital gains treated like any other income. Hmmmm
Except for the last-minute question, almost the whole of Harvey's answers were about reenacting the traditional ways the Left has been navigating within capitalism without managing to get out of it: in short, the Left is kind of trying to make capitalism better, and indeed has been inadvertently working to 'improve' it. I guess that the mistake here is not that the Left doesn't understand the role of money, capital for the system (pun obviously intended), but that it likely tries to teach the public a gradual abandonment of its use, which is a historical yet ever silly provision, to say the least, tantamount to helping one try and quit a hard drug by keeping the use of it. Unless the rules inhering in money be rigorously described, thus showing that there is no other way for it to behave than this well known very one, there is no way for getting rid of the capitalism, as the people wouldn't ever understand the links between their choice for continuing to use money and the continuously miserable state of their lives - and, I dare to say, no matter which class one belongs to.
And, this is why a revolution of the structural de-commodification of money is requisite for the deleveraging of capital and the Ponzi economy.
Indulge me, whilst you listen, in being oversimplistic.
The ordering of the Polity may be one of two broad clades, with many species.
The one is Arthashastrian, evolved from the rule of kings, martial ascendancy. This generally mellows into some social compact where the rulers acknowledge, in principle, some duty to the governed, which may be limited, or extensive. The Arthashastra counsels the Ruler to attend to the welfare of the people, the widows, the orphans, and to levy amercements upon those who neglect their duty to their dependants.
The other is Republicanism, Fascism, if you like it.
There is an archaic species of Republicanism, for example, the Icelandic Republic, based on an underlying culture and custom.
Then there is the Roman Republican model, the inspiration for Fascism, where in theory the people unite to form a social compact, overthrowing the Ruler. In practice, some Patrician class or party will dominate this, imposing the general tenor of mutual duty and obligations.
If the latter has a strong social sense, National Socialism if you like, then Welfare is a matter for the Res Publica.
If the latter has a weak social sense, then welfare is largely a private matter. This is the Neo-liberal genus of the Republican clade.
What does he mean by the welfare state recreates ( or restores) class relations. Didn't that already exist before FDR?
Good question. I'm guessing that in a plutocratic state with oligarchic parties, the state welfare functions like a public version of the privatized NGO scenario he mentions, basically a form of begging for charity. A full-on worker's state would eliminate that class relation.
@@jasonhirthler yeah I thought of that. But that describes the situation we have now ....basically begging the state for help. I don't think that describes the GI bill, free college, free community internet, and loan forgiveness or Medicare 4 all. Perhaps the devil is in the details.
I don't know if there are any U.S. people in this comment section, but you live in a country where you can live and work on a socialist farm, be a worker/owner in a cooperative, live/work in a commune, work for youself, work for someone else or a company, do contract work or subcontract work, be a farmer/rancher/artisan grower, bum off the state, be a bum on the street, bust up monopolies, indict the CEO/The Board under the RICO laws, get in a ship and sail away, work for a company with generous profit sharing, start a union, fight the union, start a cottage industry movement, own a cottage industry, join a milk co-op by buying a share in the cow, go live on BLM land in your van, be a member in an electricity co-op, buy 5 acres and be self-sufficient, and you are only limited by your imagination. I would claim and participate in building your freedom while you still can and champion the individual. Screw the state AND the rich!
Wikipedia is not a good example.
Not the welfare state but the subsistence state, to allow ownership of access to the resource of the state, the property of all people of the state, the state must ensure a proper state of subsistence is provided for those citizens. The State under capitalism basically allows the theft of access to the resources of the state and further the salaried enslavement of citizens by they active under threat of extremes of violence unfettered access to the states resources. To allow for ownership and capitalism, the privileges of the few, the state steals rights and enslaves the many to the few under the threat of extremes of violence.
To morally allow for ownership the state is morally required to make subsistence payments to all citizens to make up for the denial of access to the resources of THEIR state, their right of access, their right to SURVIVE. All else in a psychopathic enslavement of the majority lie, of feeding the insatiable psychopathic and egoistic greed of the psychopaths that control capitalism and to feed the suffering of the majority to nourish the lusts of an insane minority.
This to the extent, where now they talk of robotics as rendering citizens useless and to be condemned to work camps with a tiny minority owning the robots to create an obscene opulence for them, including their ability to abuse the bodies and minds of their victims regardless of age.
read- winners take all by annand g....
13 min and 4 seconds of 2 guys talking about the futility of reform while avoiding talking about revolution.
How about a nation-wide labor walkout from airports? One of Harvey's ideas.
Fake News