the angle magnets in electric motors to reduce the caulking effect that way there's less slowing the motor down, makes it react more like a coreless motor with higher RPM in way better and remained almost same torque
If more classroom teachers taught with the same joyous enthusiasm as you, students would learn much better than they do, Because you teach love OF the subject, not just the subject - and you do that with your sheer unbridled exuberance, demonstrating your love for what you're doing. Once someone is hooked by love for a subject, there's nothing they cannot learn About it. That is your gift.
I really think I'd like to try and make one of these. I totally agree with what you said about the benefits being dependent on what it is you are trying to achieve rather than seeking an absolute superior design!
I LOVE this stuff, I became fascinated with axial-flux motors and litz-wire when designing one of the many thousands of abandoned robot-wars entries that litter the world lol.
I have been trying to figure out how to make my farm more self-sufficient and this channel has basically all the ideas I've thought of with actual testing them. I absolutely need to get a 3D printer and get started. I have plenty of room to do both wind and solar I was previously convinced wind was outside my grasp, but not anymore ❤
Correct and good explanation of where and why to wind the coil in this spacing and angle based on the magnet size and not just any angle or location of without a logical spacing.
This is the first time I've seen your program, I've been looking at many that are producing 220 vAC power. Bur the star winging gave me an idea, the suggestion I have is if the Magnets were made in the shape of the star windings, then they would have the star windings at the correct orientation to the magnetic force 100%of the time. Then I there was another star winding on the same shaft using the other pole of the magnet there would be in opposite phase. Use one of the phases to drive the electric motor to turn the generator and the other phase to use to operate other machines and lighting. I haven't looked at how magnets are produced but they come in various shapes so how much a star winding would cost an of course demand.
Awesome build if you put 1 on each side of the magnets disk and spin the magnets turn 1 of the coils 11 degrees out of sink with the other you should have a very clean output. might be worth giving it a try . Another great video Robert cheers mate.
As a master electrician for over 45 years I have been exposed to many different electrical projects. I majored in chemistry and received my master electricians license in the 90s . You have presented a new idea with motors and magnetism I salute you.And I will have many sleepless nights understanding what you have described. Post script: I am working on a DC /AC motor based on similar principles . LOL like for the last 45 years.! LOL
Hint by obtaining fine copper, ( Cu2So4 + Fe203) creating aluminum channels in the rotor and exciting the copper in oil in those tubes were the Centrifugal force creates a flow, etc. some luck but time is short.
I'm really excited 😁 too see you covering this topic. I hope you do some on liner generator also. Thank you Robert for being such an Inspiration and explaining electric generation.. A+
This channel is strangely addictive I love it. This one reminds me of making xmas wreaths. If only we knew the physics country women would (and do) power the world!!
I'm finding this series fascinating. I've been toying with the idea of building and winding my own generator for a long time and I think this has finally incentivised me to do so. One project I have wanted to do for a while is to build a generator with some VERY strong HDD magnets I salvaged from very old SCSI drives many years ago. The problem (as I understand it) is that the poles are not oriented correctly. The poles are at the edges instead of at the top and bottom so they would essentially cancel each other out as they pass by the coils. I've been thinking that there must be a way to wind the coils to not only eliminate this issue but actually take advantage of it but I'll be damned if I can figure it out. Not my area of expertise.
If you heat the magnets above a certain temperature they'll loose their magnetization 'permanently'. It is then possible to re-magnetize them by putting the magnet inside a coil and applying a large current/magnetic field - any way you'd like. (It is not easy to do, it requires very large voltage and currents - so don't do it if you aren't sure what you're doing) There is videos here on TH-cam on how magnet producers magnetize their magnets - it's the same process. Good luck either way!
@@EgonSorensen I think I've seen that video or at least one that shows the same principles but that goes far beyond what I could do at home. I was thinking of a dual coil setup with one on the outside and one on the inside and the magnets in the middle. The N pole of the magnet would pass the outer coil at the same time as the S pole would pass by the inner coil. The way it operates in my head tells me it should work but how they'd be wired together so that the voltages "sync up" instead of cancelling each other out is where I'm stuck. And TBH I would prefer the challenge of making it work with the parts I have as-is instead of modifying them.
@@stormatron6184 My apologies for not describing very well. The magnets are the typical radius style (ie 6 of them set side to side will form a perfect circle) with the poles at the edges instead of the top and bottom faces. I have been told on a few occasions that this is why they will not work. In my head I can see two sets of coils with one on each side of the magnets with the magnets forming a ring. The magnet ring would be mounted on a shaft and would be the only part to move and would effect both coils simultaneously. I am NOT engineer so what I see in my head is likely not possible, or at best not efficient enough to be workable. BUT...I was recently gifted a 3D printer and I'm slowly learning a CAD program so with luck I'll be able to start producing parts to see if I can get the image out of my head and onto the work bench. I am 99% certain I can build the structure and such but it's the coil winding and wiring that has me stumped. Perhaps I need to get it to the point where I actually need to wind coils so I can then see exactly how everything moves in relation to each other to tell just what I have to do.
Magnetic antennas for vehicles use a metal shield to focus the field into a tightly focused area. Maybe you could use that somehow to modify the "shape" or path of the field?
This brings me back to my school years. My physics teacher made me wind all kinds of coils for loosing a bet or discussion and sometimes as an alternative punishment for being a bit of a prick. Good times. He’s still my favourite teacher.
This is so cool to me. I am curious how this would compare to a geared "stepper" wind generator. Maybe after you turn this into a generator, you could: A) grab one of the generators you made with a stepper motor. B) gear it, so that it takes an equal amount of force to spin as the Faulhaber coil generator (so both work in low wind speed). C) see how they perform under equal conditions. I feel you would have to create a 2-phase Faulhaber coil (or only hook up half the stepper motor) to get accurate comparisons.. But I consider you the professional here. Thanks again for the great content! And even more teaching us how to make Litz wire. I have been spending WAAAY too much time on my toroidal transformers..
wow .. this man is legend .. i love his videos .. so much info ,,. and trhe enthusiasm hahaha i love it. Thank you for all your work and sharing wid us sir.
If you make the core from a water or alcohol soluble material you could remove the center . This will make the coil thinner and that allows for thinner magnets. I have a design like this that uses three windings one for each phase. Nice job explaining basic electrical phenomenon. Thank you.
For the central piece I think I'd go with sandwiching the coil disk with two more acrylic or whatever disks. 1. protects the coils from accidental touches to the stator/rotor (and damaging the coating), 2. more stable central axis when it's threaded through 2 points further from each other, 3. easier access to the coils should they require maintenance (compared to glueing the central disk in), 4. completely rules out the need to know the inner diameter (or outer, for that matter), 5. keeps the coils compressed and in shape at all times, and prevents winding slips on the acrylic disk (which could damage the coating).
Wow. Seems to be a great channel. There is insufficient time to satisfy all my curiosity. 3 minutes in, I'm seeing an exemplary presentation by a skilled teacher. I don't expect to be back, but I wish the best to the channel!
Mechanical engineer for an Aerospace company that makes generators. And designed PM and switch reluctance machines. That plastic disc significantly decreases fielded strength. Heat up the coil to melt the disc and then extrude the plastic through the coil to remove its thickness from the air gap.
1) what about angling the magnets also, either with it opposite the copper? 2) what about making a longer axel on it and putting two coil types one to pick up the low wind and one to pick up the higher wind? 3) advantage/disadvantage of one phase vs three? Why not more than three if three is better than one?
Spinning like billy oh huh? 🤔😅 And thank you again for another wonderful english euphemistic expression to add to my vocabulary. Lol Thanks for the rundown.
As some others have alluded, changing the geometry of the permanent magnets can provide an excellent trade off for additional torque, both with angles and overall sizes (reduced distance between poles, more poles per cycle, lower kV [for simplicity], higher relative torque vs the opposite). One should also consider, assuming this is an academic conversation, that changes in the current geometry must also change the thrust geometry, so in instances like this demonstration (and as another user has pointed out about power tool stator geometry that use FB coils), one may potentially lose more than they gain to friction without a carefully tuned alignment. Again, this is almost purely academic, food for thought, makes hardly any (if any at all) difference in concept demonstration and learning, but it can make a fair difference in industrial or infrastructural scales. I suppose the real question... Really is whether or not a given design in the real world can maintain electrical, mechanical, and thermodynamic efficiency above the cost of copper saved. The amount of motors I've repaired, handled, I have definitely seen a fair bit of poor, low budget executions that still work, and that's sometimes frustrating because the real cost to do it right for a given application (better?) Is about the same. It just doesn't make sense to me as a reasonable corner to cut, circumstantially on a precision motor; RM-S's explanation enforces this, IMO. Thank you again, another great video. Cheers from across the pond.
I'm very interested to see how this turns out. I may be getting hold of an old car engine soon, and I had the crazy idea to turn it into an inverter generator. I'm not sure how, but I think I'd need to come up with some sort of governor so the engine can idle low, but get some extra fuel when more power draw is placed on the generator. I'm also thinking of replacing the stock alternator with a more standard generator/motor since car alternators aren't very efficient. This would be a "just for fun" project. I wouldn't expect a machine that's as good as store-bought, but as the engine would be free, I suspect it may be slightly cheaper. Depending on the cost of the generator/motor and inverter. Anyway, I love all this DIY stuff. I wish I had enough wind to make wind generators worth while, but it's just too calm here, except for wind storms. Good for painting outdoors though. :)
A lot of people don't realize flywheel mass in a wind turbine is less desirable. Spinning a coil under a load pose a challenge in keeping it secured to the rotor when experencing back torque, but the wind turbine will be operating more efficently in varying wind.
There were some other comments asking about how versatile this setup could be for places with varying wind speeds. I had an idea that I thought could make a really fun project, but I am not quite sure how it could be completed. The basic thought is this... Construct a Faulhaber generator with 3-6 phases, then dictate a way (without electronics) to open and close the circuit to each phase depending on wind speed (turbine RPM). In low wind speeds, only one phase would be online. As the wind got faster and the turbine sped up, it would hit an RPM threshold and close the circuit to phase 2; effectively increasing the load and slowing the turbine. Vice versa if it slowed down to a certain threshold it would open said circuit. In theory, you should be able to scale the number of phases up or down for any amount of wind correct? Running 10 phases in 150kph winds, I GOT YOU ;p
you need to make the spindle of ramsbreath attached to the ferroloc wound in such a way, introduce a lode stone at certain points around your spindle mounted on a shaft.
A very long armature would also put more flux cutting conductors in the field, and at 90°. Putting such an armature inside of the wind spiral would also serve to multipurpose the volume.
Interesting. I think I will build one of those faulhaber coils, but I want to do it a little different. I have no idea if it will work out as intended, but it seems to me as it would make more sense if the (open) Triangle would span exacly over one Magnet (North for example) and will continue with the next (South). In addition I will give ferromagnetic PLA for the ring-plate a try to wind the coils on. That will be an interesting project apart winding those coils will probably come out as a pain in the a... doing it properly - I want 3 phase but wrapping them besides each other, not over one and another. Thrilling...
With more phases you get less ripple , if you rotate the coils and your diode array the diodes can be arranged so that while spinning they get air cooling , such an arrangement can have output through sliprings with multiple brushes on each ring to minimize electrical noise that can be minimized with small capacitors and because of the low ripple smaller filters ( my favorite being a voltage follower set to a voltage below the ripple ( completely eliminating power ripple capacitor ) ) to no filters are necessary for direct utilization .
Excellent Robert Murry Smith, what great initials you have. RMS. I'll be very interested to see your Generator with the Faulhaber coil fixed and rotating magnets. And very interested in what Wire AGW and turns etc you use and what power of Magnets you use. You've given me loads of enthusiasm to DIY rather than anything bought of the shelf.
Spent a large part of my adult life working on electric motors, up to 6000 horsepower, they tend to dim the lights on the entire grid when starting . Have had many an adventure, survived enough to retire. I'll have to watch this over to determine a use for your motor concept. Look forward to learning new concepts . The motors I deal with now are mostly on little flying things, that are being slowly outlawed. Why they are worried about the threat of small flying things now but ignored a German saboteur, who worked just down the road, kinda confuses me. Heck as a young man I shipped many a large black airplane kit to embassies, American only, now 50 years latter they are dangerous ... and China makes all the parts , lol .
I am wondering how much increase in the electrical efficiency you will get with the Litz wire Robert. I am just amazed with all the amount of experimentation that is happening these days some has not found a super way of super efficiency. Look forward to see what you will come up next Sir. Good day too. vf
I have a bunch of the Maxon DC motors. They are insane for response n servo applications. With no iron in the winding, the start, stop, and position response is really quick with good torque and very little change in torque for the current in the rotation. It is as close to a rotary voice coil drive as possible to get in a motor. Older motors unfortunately get clogged up with carbon from the brushes as most are sealed for clean applications, so the dust is trapped inside leading to the eventual failure. Similar tech is now using AC permanent magnet motors for servo application in robotics.
Tidy - nice build Rob, thanks for the upload - not enough of this sort of content on YT. Please do a video on your interpretation of a coilset that'd work well with back-emf pulses - Being a different method of switching entirely it requires a different coil arrangement. Were a rotor to combine one of Bedinis' ultra low-current drive methods (attraction is more efficient than propulsion apparently) With a high efficiency generator winding like this on the other face of the rotor, I wonder if a gain could be achieved? Many credible people have recognized that the law of conservation of energy is deeply flawed and all efforts to replicate should be applauded.
According to a 1955 encyclopedia the law of the conservation of energy states: “Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. It merely changes forms.” Later dictionaries and encyclopedias have a different meaning. Now, I’m not saying that the definition changed due to politics but it seems to me that the older definition has some wiggle room compared to the later definitions that cry out, “NO! You cannot do this!” There, I’ve said my piece. Thank you for reading my little rant.
@@mikehorrocks2909 For sure , there are countless examples that seem to break the rules. None truly "generate" current (Dollard says otherwise in some of his lectures but I don't understand that much yet) however they can be made to work around them quite effectively. Your average heat pump has cop:4. Just a matter of converting thermal back to electrical, and loop it, it'll "run to the bearings wear out" I have read that this is possible. Possible electrically too. Bedinis machines were "Ether Sumps" for lack of a more fitting analogy. Creating a low point so some of the trillions of potential volts from the local environmental/static/ether/vacuum (insert your own term, modern science won't) can enter and be rectified, stored, or otherwise. Floyd Sweet did the same thing - so did Konzen, TH Moray, many others, that is create a phase conjugate mirror, sustain the dipole, and tap into what's already there instead of forcing nature's hand and suffering the "Leaky Diode" methodologies.
@@reeferbeleafer9912 I've always read Bedini's machine was a way to circumvent the Back EMF that is formed in every motor, thus being super efficient but not breaking any laws of thermodynamics.
Hi Rob. Love the Litz wire - great stuff. I’m struggling slightly with the geometry of the coil - maybe I’m missing something and you can clear it up? I would have thought there would have to be some sections of the coil which had no copper - to allow for the ac to flip direction? If I’ve understood the method correctly (other than the litz providing 10 turns in parallel) everything is in series (you just kept wrapping). I can’t see how the magnetic field is going to be changed in the coil as the magnets rotate past it. I thought you had to have (say) north poles over the coils all at once then a gap then south poles over the coils all at once. By spreading the phase to cover the whole sheet of acrylic don’t you have all of your norths and souths all acting simultaneously on different parts of the coil which will cancel out any emf?
To think one of those roles of copper drums he has is thousands of dollars. And this star pattern designs which increase voltages is giving me some insights into Ancient Star Forts found around the world. Shape modulates voltage and energy flow and them Star Forts might actually have been built as some kind of giant Generator.
Forming the resin would be really super easy, put mold release in the bottom of a cake tin [if the diameters allow it] or some similar sized pan [of course it would be helpful to know in advance so you can find a pan the size that matches your coil] even a pizza pan might work, albeit you might need one made for deep crust, and some restaurants have round server's trays with lips on them that might also work. But if none of those are the right size, just put some waxed paper on the top of a smooth board and cut a hole in a matching sized piece of board, and line its edges with waxed paper, and maybe rub just a little bit of bee's wax or softened candle wax into the gap between the boards so the resin does not run out, and you should be ready to place the coil and pour. Of course be sure you have your slip ring arrangement already prepared and attached, as well as safely masked off so epoxy does not get on them and have to then be removed later. A couple of small lengths of copper pipe slipped over some PVC pipe, slipped over a metal axle would give both connectivity, insulation and strength. Then slip those into a pair of bearings, and on one end add a pulley, or chain sprocket or gear, or fan blade, or water turbine. Of course finding the best working speed might take some tinkering.
I understand that the different windings have advantages, but the common windings on the average motor are many times easier, and quicker to make, are cheaper, and the extra weight doesn't affect the power used or generated. I do find the last 2 videos interesting, and informative.
Seems like you got a cool coil design to show us every day. Are you doing research and experimentation with a specific goal in mind? You seem very fixated on axial-flux lately and that is great because I have the same need for a cheap / diy generator for VAWTs.
Coreless motors/generators would be an interetsing topic for me as it implies I could 3D print the housing/stator assembly and have it all be just PETG, the magnets and some copper
Very interesting RMS , I am looking forward to seeing how options in phases / pole count can affect horsepower / torque outcomes for EV use. There are many successful pancake style axial flux motors being developed recently . :) woohoo
A single coil wound around the 100% of the form as you did in the video will generate zero volts. One half of the coil will always be 180 degrees out of phase with the other half. You may do 50% of the disk, and then you will get a sine wave output. Or you may wind as you did with 100% fill if you connect the beginning and end and leave a center tap at 50% wound. One coil becomes 2 coils, and by tapping the center, both coils can constructivly work in phase with the other, rather than fight each other with destructive interference. Cogging torque can be eliminated in generarators with iron by eliminating slots in the stator. Very much like the ion stator I used in the motor on my channel. It has no slots and zero cogging. Freqency dependent skin effect is almost non existing at the (rpm × (rotor magnetic pole pairs)) freqency we see in wind generators. Skin effect may become something to consider in motors that are controlled with pulse width modulation (pwm) at 20khz using wires that are too thick for that rate of switching, but most certainly skin effect is virtually non existing in wind generator having 8 pole pairs spinning at maybe 120-240 rpm (2-4 revolutions per second), whose output freqency is maybe 16-32 hz.
@@TheBaconWizard I though stranded wire with one outer insulation coating would better use the space, especially on the inner radius. Have a look on my channel at how I built my first axial flux motor with three faulhaber coils. 😃 Yes I struggled a little with solid copper core.
This may sound crazy but I thought of a copper/ ferrofluid in a flat tube as the conductor/ coolant all in one, mabe the flow would increase mag field or cancel it depending on polarity just a thought 🤔 I had this idea years ago and haven't had time to experiment with it
I was wondering the same as Matt Hatt and commenter response. If the magnets are angled is that where the diamond and rhomboid coil shapes come into play? Really dig this info, thanks.
THE SUPERETHERODINE RADIOS OR WIRELESS USED THAT TIPE OF COIL IN THE STAGES OF INTERMEDIARY FREQUENCIES in a range OF 275 Kc tô 475 Kc AND it was named "Honey Comb" coil in order tô dimmnish the counter motor electro force the Lenz Law in these frequencies.
Robert, you should test Tesla’s patent re ‘coil for electromagnets’. You may find some really interesting power increases. If you are so inclined, you should also see how he uses it in his other patents. You might find he was a master puzzle maker. A few pieces missing of course, can’t give the JP Morgan’s of the world a treasure map.
Speaking of coils, any one else wonder why we still wind coils mono-fillar when it was discovered over 100 years ago, that winding the coils bi-fillar creates capacitance inside the coil itself and power-factor corrects the coil extremely efficientlly? I did, I read the patent and was like "Oh that make sense, just make this one simple change to the manufacturing process and we automatically make every machine on the planet more efficient." The other thing, about the coreless motors and generators makes sense because, with nothing for the magnets to be attracted to, there's nowhere where they want to "stick" so you don't have to fight that. After I'm done my current project I was actually thinking of making a bi-fillar panckake coreless generators/motor. Want to bifillar pancake set-up to make the most of the air/epoxy core before it atennuates too much, then the generator/motor will be automatically power factor correted and I should have a really efficient machine! It'll be a brushless PM-AC motor/generator and since it uses bifillar coils, if I tune the coil length right, I should be able to get the generator coils to resonate if I get the rotational speed right.
just had a thought to cock the magnets staggered the same degree to parallel the coils? but i see the problem there too would be the next coil would have less effect.or would it?
If the copper is at an angle to he rotational direction, say at 45 deg, the usable length will be sqrt(2) times the length, so that 41% is wasted. This amount may as well be positioned in the overhang position( end windings) wit the wires straight. You cannot rally win. Thank you.
Rob, something I’ve been thinking about for a while, but could you get more current out of that arrangement if you made both the coil and the magnets counter rotating? Like double the speed of magnet across coil? Just curious…
One way to increase velocity and rpms would be to make the coil a larger radius and add more windings. That way you could avoid losses due to gearing and weight/complexity. Have you checked out planetary gearsets? I think that would be what you need for counter-rotating magnets, it would be more compact but lose some of the power to friction.
@@jameslynch8738 Hi James, that’s true about increasing the friction, but I got the idea from the spitfire’s contra rotating propellers, and I’m sure they got more speed out of them.. it would be ok I guess if despite the increased friction there was still more power, but I don’t know as I have never built one and am not set up for it… would be a great project for TNT though!
I've read some articles that you just extend the steel up above the part that hang out and make sure magnets at them too and you can gain 10 to 15% efficiency on your motor so it really wasted coils if you do this? I have a few of these motors smaller from Japan but have a way higher power 2 size ratio than other motor similar size. but dual axle flex is definitely the way to 30-40% more torque the equivalent rated radial motors. I have a 96s32p beast I'm winding now
I have always wondered why don't they just use a solid piece of copper instead of wire? That way its all even enclosed and the correct shape. I know there is probably a reason, but I have never found an answer for this. Great video! Cheers.
The number of windings transiting the magnetic field at the same time (as much as physically possible) multiplies the output voltage. A solid block of copper would be like a single wire. With multiple windings, the magnetic field pushes electrons in the same direction, adding power with each winding of the wire. Do note that the windings are electrically insulated from each other. When a motor or generator burns out, this insulation can be melted away, resulting in a single block of copper and essentially a short circuit.
in power tool motors the magnets are set at angles to coincide with the angle of the copper.
the angle magnets in electric motors to reduce the caulking effect that way there's less slowing the motor down, makes it react more like a coreless motor with higher RPM in way better and remained almost same torque
If more classroom teachers taught with the same joyous enthusiasm as you, students would learn much better than they do, Because you teach love OF the subject, not just the subject - and you do that with your sheer unbridled exuberance, demonstrating your love for what you're doing. Once someone is hooked by love for a subject, there's nothing they cannot learn About it. That is your gift.
I'm seriously jealous of your huge roll of copper wire! 😮😆
An me!! Wouldn’t be cheap tho
Monthly payment’s are available
Spool envy...
@@mrnobody2873 Now we KNOW we're a crowd of geeks, what? 🤓🤓🤓
Love the extra detail and information about how stuff works and showing it almost all the way through. ❤ keep it up!
I really think I'd like to try and make one of these. I totally agree with what you said about the benefits being dependent on what it is you are trying to achieve rather than seeking an absolute superior design!
I LOVE this stuff, I became fascinated with axial-flux motors and litz-wire when designing one of the many thousands of abandoned robot-wars entries that litter the world lol.
I have been trying to figure out how to make my farm more self-sufficient and this channel has basically all the ideas I've thought of with actual testing them. I absolutely need to get a 3D printer and get started. I have plenty of room to do both wind and solar I was previously convinced wind was outside my grasp, but not anymore ❤
Correct and good explanation of where and why to wind the coil in this spacing and angle based on the magnet size and not just any angle or location of without a logical spacing.
This is the first time I've seen your program, I've been looking at many that are producing 220 vAC power. Bur the star winging gave me an idea, the suggestion I have is if the Magnets were made in the shape of the star windings, then they would have the star windings at the correct orientation to the magnetic force 100%of the time. Then I there was another star winding on the same shaft using the other pole of the magnet there would be in opposite phase. Use one of the phases to drive the electric motor to turn the generator and the other phase to use to operate other machines and lighting. I haven't looked at how magnets are produced but they come in various shapes so how much a star winding would cost an of course demand.
Awesome build if you put 1 on each side of the magnets disk and spin the magnets turn 1 of the coils 11 degrees out of sink with the other you should have a very clean output. might be worth giving it a try . Another great video Robert cheers mate.
As a master electrician for over 45 years I have been exposed to many different electrical projects.
I majored in chemistry and received my master electricians license in the 90s .
You have presented a new idea with motors and magnetism I salute you.And I will have many sleepless nights understanding what you have described.
Post script: I am working on a DC /AC motor based on similar principles . LOL like for the last 45 years.! LOL
This is an extremely common star delta been around for a century or more
@@funnycatvideos5490 Unfortunately I’ve only been around for 67 years lol
Hint by obtaining fine copper, ( Cu2So4 + Fe203) creating aluminum channels in the rotor and exciting the copper in oil in those tubes were the Centrifugal force creates a flow, etc. some luck but time is short.
I'm really excited 😁 too see you covering this topic. I hope you do some on liner generator also. Thank you Robert for being such an Inspiration and explaining electric generation.. A+
I wondered why the little drone motors had that kind of coil/wrapping pattern. But never looked into it. Thanks, Rob! :)
I am extremely glad I fell upon your channel. The subjects you talk about are always interesting, and informative. Keep up the great content creation.
This channel is strangely addictive I love it. This one reminds me of making xmas wreaths. If only we knew the physics country women would (and do) power the world!!
Fascinating! Looking forward to seeing how it all works out!
I'm finding this series fascinating. I've been toying with the idea of building and winding my own generator for a long time and I think this has finally incentivised me to do so. One project I have wanted to do for a while is to build a generator with some VERY strong HDD magnets I salvaged from very old SCSI drives many years ago. The problem (as I understand it) is that the poles are not oriented correctly. The poles are at the edges instead of at the top and bottom so they would essentially cancel each other out as they pass by the coils. I've been thinking that there must be a way to wind the coils to not only eliminate this issue but actually take advantage of it but I'll be damned if I can figure it out. Not my area of expertise.
If you heat the magnets above a certain temperature they'll loose their magnetization 'permanently'.
It is then possible to re-magnetize them by putting the magnet inside a coil and applying a large current/magnetic field - any way you'd like.
(It is not easy to do, it requires very large voltage and currents - so don't do it if you aren't sure what you're doing)
There is videos here on TH-cam on how magnet producers magnetize their magnets - it's the same process. Good luck either way!
@@EgonSorensen I think I've seen that video or at least one that shows the same principles but that goes far beyond what I could do at home. I was thinking of a dual coil setup with one on the outside and one on the inside and the magnets in the middle. The N pole of the magnet would pass the outer coil at the same time as the S pole would pass by the inner coil. The way it operates in my head tells me it should work but how they'd be wired together so that the voltages "sync up" instead of cancelling each other out is where I'm stuck. And TBH I would prefer the challenge of making it work with the parts I have as-is instead of modifying them.
@@Enjoymentboy Not sure I understand correctly but if they are in sync but opposite, just reverse the polarity of one of the coils?
@@stormatron6184 My apologies for not describing very well. The magnets are the typical radius style (ie 6 of them set side to side will form a perfect circle) with the poles at the edges instead of the top and bottom faces. I have been told on a few occasions that this is why they will not work. In my head I can see two sets of coils with one on each side of the magnets with the magnets forming a ring. The magnet ring would be mounted on a shaft and would be the only part to move and would effect both coils simultaneously. I am NOT engineer so what I see in my head is likely not possible, or at best not efficient enough to be workable. BUT...I was recently gifted a 3D printer and I'm slowly learning a CAD program so with luck I'll be able to start producing parts to see if I can get the image out of my head and onto the work bench. I am 99% certain I can build the structure and such but it's the coil winding and wiring that has me stumped. Perhaps I need to get it to the point where I actually need to wind coils so I can then see exactly how everything moves in relation to each other to tell just what I have to do.
Magnetic antennas for vehicles use a metal shield to focus the field into a tightly focused area. Maybe you could use that somehow to modify the "shape" or path of the field?
You've always been a great whistler
Im fascinated with coils and antennas and I am amazed by the sounds of my handmade AM radios as I tune the channel
This brings me back to my school years. My physics teacher made me wind all kinds of coils for loosing a bet or discussion and sometimes as an alternative punishment for being a bit of a prick. Good times. He’s still my favourite teacher.
Looking forward to seeing the results. Very cool Rob!
This is so cool to me. I am curious how this would compare to a geared "stepper" wind generator.
Maybe after you turn this into a generator, you could:
A) grab one of the generators you made with a stepper motor.
B) gear it, so that it takes an equal amount of force to spin as the Faulhaber coil generator (so both work in low wind speed).
C) see how they perform under equal conditions.
I feel you would have to create a 2-phase Faulhaber coil (or only hook up half the stepper motor) to get accurate comparisons.. But I consider you the professional here.
Thanks again for the great content! And even more teaching us how to make Litz wire. I have been spending WAAAY too much time on my toroidal transformers..
Appreciate taking your time to show this process Thank you
Hi Rob Sir this came much in time I am working with a windmill project these days, will share images soon 🙏🏻🙏🏻
You're a STAR.
Too late for Christmas, but they would have made great halos (don't fret, just winding you up 😁)
Lol
wow .. this man is legend .. i love his videos .. so much info ,,. and trhe enthusiasm hahaha i love it. Thank you for all your work and sharing wid us sir.
If you make the core from a water or alcohol soluble material you could remove the center . This will make the coil thinner and that allows for thinner magnets. I have a design like this that uses three windings one for each phase.
Nice job explaining basic electrical phenomenon. Thank you.
thats great, this is how ive been doing my litz wire for years. makes great matched load windings too, within limits.
For the central piece I think I'd go with sandwiching the coil disk with two more acrylic or whatever disks. 1. protects the coils from accidental touches to the stator/rotor (and damaging the coating), 2. more stable central axis when it's threaded through 2 points further from each other, 3. easier access to the coils should they require maintenance (compared to glueing the central disk in), 4. completely rules out the need to know the inner diameter (or outer, for that matter), 5. keeps the coils compressed and in shape at all times, and prevents winding slips on the acrylic disk (which could damage the coating).
Wow. Seems to be a great channel. There is insufficient time to satisfy all my curiosity. 3 minutes in, I'm seeing an exemplary presentation by a skilled teacher. I don't expect to be back, but I wish the best to the channel!
Zigzags are the most efficient shape for UHF TV/radio antennas, too. I’ve built several designs, and I get the best gain with them.
Fascinating Mr. Smith! It looks cool, too!
Nice! Thank you Robert.
Educational as always, thx for sharing this, thx for uploading,
Also don't forget not to get burnout and pace yourself if truly needed!
Mechanical engineer for an Aerospace company that makes generators. And designed PM and switch reluctance machines. That plastic disc significantly decreases fielded strength. Heat up the coil to melt the disc and then extrude the plastic through the coil to remove its thickness from the air gap.
1) what about angling the magnets also, either with it opposite the copper?
2) what about making a longer axel on it and putting two coil types one to pick up the low wind and one to pick up the higher wind?
3) advantage/disadvantage of one phase vs three? Why not more than three if three is better than one?
Looks nice, super nice. Could it be made reversible i.e. spin the copper at some speeds and spin the magnets at other speeds?
Spinning like billy oh huh? 🤔😅 And thank you again for another wonderful english euphemistic expression to add to my vocabulary. Lol
Thanks for the rundown.
As some others have alluded, changing the geometry of the permanent magnets can provide an excellent trade off for additional torque, both with angles and overall sizes (reduced distance between poles, more poles per cycle, lower kV [for simplicity], higher relative torque vs the opposite). One should also consider, assuming this is an academic conversation, that changes in the current geometry must also change the thrust geometry, so in instances like this demonstration (and as another user has pointed out about power tool stator geometry that use FB coils), one may potentially lose more than they gain to friction without a carefully tuned alignment. Again, this is almost purely academic, food for thought, makes hardly any (if any at all) difference in concept demonstration and learning, but it can make a fair difference in industrial or infrastructural scales. I suppose the real question... Really is whether or not a given design in the real world can maintain electrical, mechanical, and thermodynamic efficiency above the cost of copper saved. The amount of motors I've repaired, handled, I have definitely seen a fair bit of poor, low budget executions that still work, and that's sometimes frustrating because the real cost to do it right for a given application (better?) Is about the same. It just doesn't make sense to me as a reasonable corner to cut, circumstantially on a precision motor; RM-S's explanation enforces this, IMO.
Thank you again, another great video. Cheers from across the pond.
Wow! Cool artistic whistling!
I'm very interested to see how this turns out. I may be getting hold of an old car engine soon, and I had the crazy idea to turn it into an inverter generator. I'm not sure how, but I think I'd need to come up with some sort of governor so the engine can idle low, but get some extra fuel when more power draw is placed on the generator. I'm also thinking of replacing the stock alternator with a more standard generator/motor since car alternators aren't very efficient. This would be a "just for fun" project. I wouldn't expect a machine that's as good as store-bought, but as the engine would be free, I suspect it may be slightly cheaper. Depending on the cost of the generator/motor and inverter.
Anyway, I love all this DIY stuff. I wish I had enough wind to make wind generators worth while, but it's just too calm here, except for wind storms. Good for painting outdoors though. :)
I think you may want to keep the alternator to charge your starter battery.
Very good, indeed! Thanks Rob. Waiting for the next fascinating videos.
A lot of people don't realize flywheel mass in a wind turbine is less desirable. Spinning a coil under a load pose a challenge in keeping it secured to the rotor when experencing back torque, but the wind turbine will be operating more efficently in varying wind.
"headphone lead" is a great soure of HF-Litz wire for small projects
There were some other comments asking about how versatile this setup could be for places with varying wind speeds. I had an idea that I thought could make a really fun project, but I am not quite sure how it could be completed.
The basic thought is this... Construct a Faulhaber generator with 3-6 phases, then dictate a way (without electronics) to open and close the circuit to each phase depending on wind speed (turbine RPM).
In low wind speeds, only one phase would be online. As the wind got faster and the turbine sped up, it would hit an RPM threshold and close the circuit to phase 2; effectively increasing the load and slowing the turbine. Vice versa if it slowed down to a certain threshold it would open said circuit.
In theory, you should be able to scale the number of phases up or down for any amount of wind correct? Running 10 phases in 150kph winds, I GOT YOU ;p
Centrifugal switch
They are found in lots of washing machine motors
Change the springs for different speeds
The other option would be to vary the field strength.
That Liz wire was sold in comerce for radiotecnics named antena wire very useful for GALENA RADIOS in the pastime.
That makes a rather pretty winding. It will be interesting to see how it performs.
you need to make the spindle of ramsbreath attached to the ferroloc wound in such a way, introduce a lode stone at certain points around your spindle mounted on a shaft.
A very long armature would also put more flux cutting conductors in the field, and at 90°. Putting such an armature inside of the wind spiral would also serve to multipurpose the volume.
Interesting. I think I will build one of those faulhaber coils, but I want to do it a little different. I have no idea if it will work out as intended, but it seems to me as it would make more sense if the (open) Triangle would span exacly over one Magnet (North for example) and will continue with the next (South). In addition I will give ferromagnetic PLA for the ring-plate a try to wind the coils on. That will be an interesting project apart winding those coils will probably come out as a pain in the a... doing it properly - I want 3 phase but wrapping them besides each other, not over one and another. Thrilling...
With more phases you get less ripple , if you rotate the coils and your diode array the diodes can be arranged so that while spinning they get air cooling , such an arrangement can have output through sliprings with multiple brushes on each ring to minimize electrical noise that can be minimized with small capacitors and because of the low ripple smaller filters ( my favorite being a voltage follower set to a voltage below the ripple ( completely eliminating power ripple capacitor ) ) to no filters are necessary for direct utilization .
Excellent Robert Murry Smith, what great initials you have. RMS. I'll be very interested to see your Generator with the Faulhaber coil fixed and rotating magnets. And very interested in what Wire AGW and turns etc you use and what power of Magnets you use. You've given me loads of enthusiasm to DIY rather than anything bought of the shelf.
Good, 100% agree! Thank you:o)) Try a "Star Coil" may be bifilar! Cheers, great video
Spent a large part of my adult life working on electric motors, up to 6000 horsepower, they tend to dim the lights on the entire grid when starting . Have had many an adventure, survived enough to retire. I'll have to watch this over to determine a use for your motor concept. Look forward to learning new concepts . The motors I deal with now are mostly on little flying things, that are being slowly outlawed. Why they are worried about the threat of small flying things now but ignored a German saboteur, who worked just down the road, kinda confuses me. Heck as a young man I shipped many a large black airplane kit to embassies, American only, now 50 years latter they are dangerous ... and China makes all the parts , lol .
I am wondering how much increase in the electrical efficiency you will get with the Litz wire Robert. I am just amazed with all the amount of experimentation that is happening these days some has not found a super way of super efficiency.
Look forward to see what you will come up next Sir. Good day too. vf
Beautiful winding
I have a bunch of the Maxon DC motors. They are insane for response n servo applications. With no iron in the winding, the start, stop, and position response is really quick with good torque and very little change in torque for the current in the rotation. It is as close to a rotary voice coil drive as possible to get in a motor. Older motors unfortunately get clogged up with carbon from the brushes as most are sealed for clean applications, so the dust is trapped inside leading to the eventual failure. Similar tech is now using AC permanent magnet motors for servo application in robotics.
Tidy - nice build Rob, thanks for the upload - not enough of this sort of content on YT.
Please do a video on your interpretation of a coilset that'd work well with back-emf pulses - Being a different method of switching entirely it requires a different coil arrangement.
Were a rotor to combine one of Bedinis' ultra low-current drive methods (attraction is more efficient than propulsion apparently)
With a high efficiency generator winding like this on the other face of the rotor, I wonder if a gain could be achieved?
Many credible people have recognized that the law of conservation of energy is deeply flawed and all efforts to replicate should be applauded.
According to a 1955 encyclopedia the law of the conservation of energy states: “Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. It merely changes forms.” Later dictionaries and encyclopedias have a different meaning. Now, I’m not saying that the definition changed due to politics but it seems to me that the older definition has some wiggle room compared to the later definitions that cry out, “NO! You cannot do this!” There, I’ve said my piece. Thank you for reading my little rant.
@@mikehorrocks2909 For sure , there are countless examples that seem to break the rules. None truly "generate" current (Dollard says otherwise in some of his lectures but I don't understand that much yet) however they can be made to work around them quite effectively. Your average heat pump has cop:4. Just a matter of converting thermal back to electrical, and loop it, it'll "run to the bearings wear out" I have read that this is possible. Possible electrically too. Bedinis machines were "Ether Sumps" for lack of a more fitting analogy. Creating a low point so some of the trillions of potential volts from the local environmental/static/ether/vacuum (insert your own term, modern science won't) can enter and be rectified, stored, or otherwise. Floyd Sweet did the same thing - so did Konzen, TH Moray, many others, that is create a phase conjugate mirror, sustain the dipole, and tap into what's already there instead of forcing nature's hand and suffering the "Leaky Diode" methodologies.
@@reeferbeleafer9912 yes.
@@reeferbeleafer9912 I've always read Bedini's machine was a way to circumvent the Back EMF that is formed in every motor, thus being super efficient but not breaking any laws of thermodynamics.
@@JehuMcSpooran "COP is in the batteries"
Patience is a virtue😄
After this Great Series maybe DIY coil tester like motor shops use and I don't mean an ohm meter or Megger.
Hi Rob. Love the Litz wire - great stuff. I’m struggling slightly with the geometry of the coil - maybe I’m missing something and you can clear it up? I would have thought there would have to be some sections of the coil which had no copper - to allow for the ac to flip direction? If I’ve understood the method correctly (other than the litz providing 10 turns in parallel) everything is in series (you just kept wrapping). I can’t see how the magnetic field is going to be changed in the coil as the magnets rotate past it. I thought you had to have (say) north poles over the coils all at once then a gap then south poles over the coils all at once. By spreading the phase to cover the whole sheet of acrylic don’t you have all of your norths and souths all acting simultaneously on different parts of the coil which will cancel out any emf?
I'm having the same trouble visualising this too.
Thanks again for the teachings, very enlightening. Cheers mate!
To think one of those roles of copper drums he has is thousands of dollars. And this star pattern designs which increase voltages is giving me some insights into Ancient Star Forts found around the world. Shape modulates voltage and energy flow and them Star Forts might actually have been built as some kind of giant Generator.
Litz wire is used in the tone arm of record players. It's normally in higher end decks.
Forming the resin would be really super easy, put mold release in the bottom of a cake tin [if the diameters allow it] or some similar sized pan [of course it would be helpful to know in advance so you can find a pan the size that matches your coil] even a pizza pan might work, albeit you might need one made for deep crust, and some restaurants have round server's trays with lips on them that might also work.
But if none of those are the right size, just put some waxed paper on the top of a smooth board and cut a hole in a matching sized piece of board, and line its edges with waxed paper, and maybe rub just a little bit of bee's wax or softened candle wax into the gap between the boards so the resin does not run out, and you should be ready to place the coil and pour.
Of course be sure you have your slip ring arrangement already prepared and attached, as well as safely masked off so epoxy does not get on them and have to then be removed later.
A couple of small lengths of copper pipe slipped over some PVC pipe, slipped over a metal axle would give both connectivity, insulation and strength.
Then slip those into a pair of bearings, and on one end add a pulley, or chain sprocket or gear, or fan blade, or water turbine.
Of course finding the best working speed might take some tinkering.
I understand that the different windings have advantages, but the common windings on the average motor are many times easier, and quicker to make, are cheaper, and the extra weight doesn't affect the power used or generated. I do find the last 2 videos interesting, and informative.
This is nice Rob! Can you also show how to make a radial flux coreless stator? Im fascinated by slotless/coreless winding with the faulhaber pattern!
Seems like you got a cool coil design to show us every day. Are you doing research and experimentation with a specific goal in mind? You seem very fixated on axial-flux lately and that is great because I have the same need for a cheap / diy generator for VAWTs.
Coreless motors/generators would be an interetsing topic for me as it implies I could 3D print the housing/stator assembly and have it all be just PETG, the magnets and some copper
Cool, after you make this a generator it would be cool to see how you run it as a motor. Could you control it with off the shelf ebike components?
Very interesting RMS , I am looking forward to seeing how options in phases / pole count can affect horsepower / torque outcomes for EV use.
There are many successful pancake style axial flux motors being developed recently . :) woohoo
This man developed the process of whacking a gallium arsenide semiconductor with a block of wood to create the first UAP de-cloaking sensors.
A single coil wound around the 100% of the form as you did in the video will generate zero volts. One half of the coil will always be 180 degrees out of phase with the other half. You may do 50% of the disk, and then you will get a sine wave output. Or you may wind as you did with 100% fill if you connect the beginning and end and leave a center tap at 50% wound. One coil becomes 2 coils, and by tapping the center, both coils can constructivly work in phase with the other, rather than fight each other with destructive interference.
Cogging torque can be eliminated in generarators with iron by eliminating slots in the stator. Very much like the ion stator I used in the motor on my channel. It has no slots and zero cogging.
Freqency dependent skin effect is almost non existing at the (rpm × (rotor magnetic pole pairs)) freqency we see in wind generators. Skin effect may become something to consider in motors that are controlled with pulse width modulation (pwm) at 20khz using wires that are too thick for that rate of switching, but most certainly skin effect is virtually non existing in wind generator having 8 pole pairs spinning at maybe 120-240 rpm (2-4 revolutions per second), whose output freqency is maybe 16-32 hz.
While that's absolutely correct re litz-wire, the point of making some here was to make winding the coil less of a chore.
@@TheBaconWizard I though stranded wire with one outer insulation coating would better use the space, especially on the inner radius.
Have a look on my channel at how I built my first axial flux motor with three faulhaber coils. 😃 Yes I struggled a little with solid copper core.
Patience and attention is required.
Fascinating! Never saw a Faulhaber winding before! How would it perform against a rewired F&P washer motor?
Good stuff 👍
Can you rotate the magnet to get closer to perpendicular to the wire?
Perhaps reshape the magnets more pie shaped parallelogram?
Great info as usual. I appreciate the education kind sir.
This may sound crazy but I thought of a copper/ ferrofluid in a flat tube as the conductor/ coolant all in one, mabe the flow would increase mag field or cancel it depending on polarity just a thought 🤔 I had this idea years ago and haven't had time to experiment with it
I was wondering the same as Matt Hatt and commenter response. If the magnets are angled is that where the diamond and rhomboid coil shapes come into play? Really dig this info, thanks.
THE SUPERETHERODINE RADIOS OR WIRELESS USED THAT TIPE OF COIL IN THE STAGES OF INTERMEDIARY FREQUENCIES in a range OF 275 Kc tô 475 Kc AND it was named "Honey Comb" coil in order tô dimmnish the counter motor electro force the Lenz Law in these frequencies.
OMG Rob you made Star Gate...😃! Is Earth going to get attached by Aliens now 😂! Plz say yes.
Robert, you should test Tesla’s patent re ‘coil for electromagnets’. You may find some really interesting power increases. If you are so inclined, you should also see how he uses it in his other patents. You might find he was a master puzzle maker. A few pieces missing of course, can’t give the JP Morgan’s of the world a treasure map.
Thank you very mush.. that was wonderful explanation
Speaking of coils, any one else wonder why we still wind coils mono-fillar when it was discovered over 100 years ago, that winding the coils bi-fillar creates capacitance inside the coil itself and power-factor corrects the coil extremely efficientlly?
I did, I read the patent and was like "Oh that make sense, just make this one simple change to the manufacturing process and we automatically make every machine on the planet more efficient."
The other thing, about the coreless motors and generators makes sense because, with nothing for the magnets to be attracted to, there's nowhere where they want to "stick" so you don't have to fight that. After I'm done my current project I was actually thinking of making a bi-fillar panckake coreless generators/motor. Want to bifillar pancake set-up to make the most of the air/epoxy core before it atennuates too much, then the generator/motor will be automatically power factor correted and I should have a really efficient machine! It'll be a brushless PM-AC motor/generator and since it uses bifillar coils, if I tune the coil length right, I should be able to get the generator coils to resonate if I get the rotational speed right.
just had a thought to cock the magnets staggered the same degree to parallel the coils? but i see the problem there too would be the next coil would have less effect.or would it?
we haven't even begun to use
Superfluids.
Awesome 👏
Can you go into how to align the magnets to the coils so that you make the best use of the magnets without working against yourself? (generation wise)
I'd like to see a generator made with Harbor freight magnetic tool holders. approx 18 inch magnet. will many of these holders together possibly work?
Delightful Sir!
If the copper is at an angle to he rotational direction, say at 45 deg, the usable length will be sqrt(2) times the length, so that 41% is wasted. This amount may as well be positioned in the overhang position( end windings) wit the wires straight. You cannot rally win. Thank you.
Hi Robert. Thank you for your wonderful work and series!
Have you done any work or research on Motionless Electromagnetic Generators (MEG)?
Check out some of the early videos from last year and the other channel with Luke.
Hmmm. If they were truly motionless, they wouldn't produce any power.
Ty!
I love your channel
Rob, something I’ve been thinking about for a while, but could you get more current out of that arrangement if you made both the coil and the magnets counter rotating? Like double the speed of magnet across coil? Just curious…
One way to increase velocity and rpms would be to make the coil a larger radius and add more windings. That way you could avoid losses due to gearing and weight/complexity. Have you checked out planetary gearsets? I think that would be what you need for counter-rotating magnets, it would be more compact but lose some of the power to friction.
@@jameslynch8738 Hi James, that’s true about increasing the friction, but I got the idea from the spitfire’s contra rotating propellers, and I’m sure they got more speed out of them.. it would be ok I guess if despite the increased friction there was still more power, but I don’t know as I have never built one and am not set up for it… would be a great project for TNT though!
Very cool...Thank You !!!
I've read some articles that you just extend the steel up above the part that hang out and make sure magnets at them too and you can gain 10 to 15% efficiency on your motor so it really wasted coils if you do this? I have a few of these motors smaller from Japan but have a way higher power 2 size ratio than other motor similar size. but dual axle flex is definitely the way to 30-40% more torque the equivalent rated radial motors. I have a 96s32p beast I'm winding now
I got there from trying to make balancing robots, and telescope aiming systems.
I have always wondered why don't they just use a solid piece of copper instead of wire? That way its all even enclosed and the correct shape. I know there is probably a reason, but I have never found an answer for this. Great video! Cheers.
The number of windings transiting the magnetic field at the same time (as much as physically possible) multiplies the output voltage. A solid block of copper would be like a single wire. With multiple windings, the magnetic field pushes electrons in the same direction, adding power with each winding of the wire. Do note that the windings are electrically insulated from each other. When a motor or generator burns out, this insulation can be melted away, resulting in a single block of copper and essentially a short circuit.