I cried. Thinking how alone she must have been, and how she destroyed the world she loved so dearly in order to save it and the mankind. and how the ending part is something that when you truly hit rock bottom you need to realize in order to get up form there. After you have been in the darkness you became great at wielding the light.
I wept. I once blamed Hyde for all of this. But as we went through Elpis, I began to think differently. And now to see all this, all with "Answers" playing, and her walk, her walk with US, that broke me.
The bit when hythlo turns and walks away is never specifically specified, but heavily accepted, that is the goodbye he gives Emet right before going to get sacrificed to zodiark
Also to add: almost the entire convecation were the first, the known being elidibus, hythlo, and lahabreah(Laha and eli withdrawing themselves at a later point to help the rest of the ascians in arr) some others joined emet and were unsundered somehow, and a couple (mainly azem) didn’t join the ascians/zodiark, seeking another way. The memory crystals in shadowbringers were meant to be used when the world was remade to remind sundered and sacrificed ascians who they were once they’d won/recruiting, but Emet made one for azem too because they had once been friends.
(Hydelyn also has a group of people who supported her in her idea, and helped make her a primal, they haven’t been as focused on but a few will come up at some point in your journey, the watcher and bunny bois are the main ones)
@@eternalsummer8409 The Convocation did not sacrifice themselves to Zodiark except Elidibus who became the heart. Of the remaining people, after accepting the need for the sacrifice half was chosen ... then again after the final dates were "stopped", to reinvigorate the planed half of the remaining people sacrificed themselves to Zodiark. Venat and her Group did not join the selection process keeping apart, being vary of the results of such an act, now we know Venat had foreknowledge, through we do not know how much she shared with the rest of the group. Azem also decide to do his own thing, not joining either group, we dont know if this was part of Venats planning or just Azem being Azem. Faced with the bloated Zodiark and its influence, Venats group sacrifices themselves and summon Hydaelyn, to keep him in check The remaining well quarter, came up with the idea to nourish new life, then sacrifice all this life to replace the sacrificed ancients so that they can be brough back. Unable to accept this course of action, and convince her people to abandon the plan Hydaelyn sunders the world splitting every living soul and the world itself into 14 pieces... (13 shards + Source) with the exception of Elidibus who has returned by separating from Zodiark, Emet, Laha - she deliberately allowed them to escape as she knew they were unsundered in the future, and probably was able to figure out they may play a role later. The other convocation members were sundered and their souls entered the Atherial Sea and became reborn. Its likely that as Zodiark was sundered so the souls in him were as well, but because they were stuck inside him in the stasis prison on the moon, they did not enter the Aetherial Sea they remained in the state they were at the time of their sacrifice. The memory Crystals were used, after finding a soul of a convocation member to restore their memories of their time on the convocation and restoring them to the position. Hythlodeus is not part of the convocation, as such he was not exempt from the selection. That said most Ancients would not even think of rejecting it, for the sake of saving their fellows.
@@eternalsummer8409Emet-Selch, Elidibus, Lahabrea and Venat herself were the only ones to not be sacrificed to Zodiark/Hydaelyn and also escape the sundering (to quote Shadowbringers lyrics: Fourfold knowing, no end in sight). Hythlodaeus was among the sacrifices to Zodiark. Also, Hythlodaeus wasn't on the convocation, he was just chief of the Bureau of the Architect
Venat's answer is the only one that the game gives that I agree with, honestly. What is meaning for one person might be ridiculous to another, but that doesn't make either invalid. We have to find what gives us joy and purpose, and that's the one answer Hermes obviously never considered.
Spoiler alert for shortly after this MSQ moment below: @Tolly7249 Venat's answer is the same as Zenos'. When we encounter Zenos during the Final Days, he says that the only meaning to be found in one's life has to be decided by you and you alone. For him, it's the hedonistic pursuit of joy he gets from fighting challenging opponents.
I still say that's one of if not THE best cutscenes in all of gaming right now. 10 years of build-up for that pay-off is worth every second, and when it shows SHE was giving you the strength to continue vs. Emet-Selch after Amaurot, it hits new emotions.
definitely... It hits so hard and it's executed so well. Between the visuals, all the years of plot building, plus such an amazing song as answers... I don't think anything else is really worth being considered as a match. Too much had been built up for that cutscene. It hits so many emotional points and themes in the story as well as issues people have probably thought about themselves...
That’s not how I interpreted it. She’s been doing this for thousands of years. Hurt by multiple rejoinings, each enough to stop her in her tracks. When confronted with this she does the only thing she knows how to do. The same thing you did when you were at your lowest with Emet. Keep putting one foot in front of the other. If you keep fighting, you will somehow reach the end. You are the same as her. You are both endwalkers.
This scene was just so good. After sitting there staring at my screen for probably 2 minutes, first thing I did was try to find the organ version of answers that starts @ 6:43 (it's "from the ashes" btw 😉)
This scene still gets me every time. The flashes as she gets progressively more broken and scarred, not only is it painful to watch (even knowing this is a fictional character and not even a live person at that), when you make the connection that each flash represents a rejoining and it's calamity wreaking destruction on the source and the particular reflection. Damn. And Answers, it was always an incredible song, but now given the full context... it's a gut puncher. An interesting observation I noticed on the 3rd or 4th watch of this, compare the ancients prayer at around 8:30 ish, to the post-credit cutscene of ARR, after Bahamut's roar is heard. This scene, I think, is a callback to the Ascians gathering and they raise their arms to praise Zodiark in that ARR cutscene. Since these aren't named, I dunno if it's supposed to be the same ones gathered, probably not, but still, neat little detail :)
This scene re-contextualized 'Answers' for me. Its not our song of suffering, of despair, of misery. It is the Ancients'. We only remember/experience it because the emotions in our soul (kind of like in 5.x when Elidibus was trying to 'inspire' more warriors of light with images of Amaruot). In an interview, Yoshi-P commented that the muck on Venat was supposed to be blood, but either the ESRB or PEGI pumped the brakes on that and they changed it to that muck. I think it fits better, seeing as the damage inflicted on her was clearly the Rejoinings. To me, this is the most important cutscene. There are many like it, but this one. This one is the one.
It also gives an analogue between her and Meteion: Both experienced the suffering and despair. But Venat, while carrying it with her, didn't let it consume her.
That cutscene never gets old. The cinematography is perfect, either depicting what happened in the past, what Venat is saying, or building atmosphere. They also made sure you could here some of the more important and relevant phrases in "Answers", especially at the end with Venat suffering while also watching mortals suffer. "In the same fleeting moment, thou must live, die, and know" is such a hard line
My reaction, besides sitting there with my jaw on the floor for five full minutes, was to realize that Answers had been singing to us about this whole damn thing for ten goddamned years. It was all right there in the song the whole time and we never knew it.
To be fair, Soken didn't know it either when he wrote it. It was written, in fact, for a cutscene intended to be in 1.0 but never used, as it was found in the game files before the decision to drop Dalamud was made behind the scenes. The way the writers managed to tie it in to the rest of this plot, however, is absolutely genius
Venat's dialogue here hits me so hard in the feels. And it feels so true in a way. Not just in game, but also in real life. I tend to be quite dramatic and expect the worst and can't always accept things as they are. XIV has really taught me patience and compassion towards life in general.
If this doesn't break your heart... It will never stop making me sad. Venat was willing to give up anything, suffer anything, for the chance at a more hopeful future. And she bloody did it. She suffered, gave up her very soul, because she knew sooner or later we would be there to help her. o7's for Venat.
In regards to the ancients' actions, keep in mind that their attempt to revive their lost ones happened, after three quaters of their population volunteered to sacrifice themselves, first half to create Zodiark and stop the final days, and then half of the survivors to restore the damage to the planet. And that final quarter was then split between the restorationists, or whatever you wanna call it, and Venat's faction, that would eventually sacrifice themselves to create Hydaelyn. Naturally it'd be the best and most virtuous, as well as those having given up, who'd volunteer to sacrifice their lives to Zodiark, the repair and Hydaelyn. Which naturally left the worst parts of their population, and those incapable of letting go to remain behind, and dishonour and disregard the sacrifice their betters have made. And as a primal, beholden to the will of those whorshipping it, Zodiark couldn't resist his purpose being changed. By the way, I recommend listening to this cutscene in the original Japanese. While the English is good, I think the original clearnly blows it out of the water, with far more emotion being put in Venat's speech.
We do not know how who was sacrificed was determined, if it was just voluntary, or because all the Ancients were willing there was some kind of lottery or such. As if it was purely voluntary there would be reasons to keep someone as important as Hythlo from becoming a sacrifice. Vague spoiler for Pandemonium End of EW Raids .... a certain character states he will defy the Convocations directive, which does seem to imply a degree of selection, or this statement would not make much sense.
@@Ower8x Yes we do know. Emet told us straight up, that they went to their deathes willingly. Granted, it's while he's vaxing passionatly why the ancients are so much more worth and thus it's okay to sacrifice all the lesser races to revive them, but even so, I doubt he'd just make stuff up that goes directly contraty to what happened. And the ones stuck inside Zodiark, when Fandaniel is taking over, also make a very strong impression of wanting Zodiark to continue to exist for the sake of the world, instead of being released into the lifestream.
@@Norbert_Sattler Pandemonium vague Spoiler, mention one text from a certain character: Again the message in the crystal indicates there was a degree of ordering there. Or there would not be a need for words like Defy and Directive. This was written for with EW, maybe its a translation issue, cant say, but in English its clearly says Defy. If it was pure voluntary the text should be more like: "I can not heed the request of the Convocation. I can not volunteer my soul ... " Instead we get: "I must defy the directive of the Convocation. My soul will not be offered ..."
Not going to lie I cried hard during this scene. So sad the entire last bit of the MSQ was written so bad. I wish it had stopped here. I was drawn in and really enjoying it and then Ultima Thule hit. Then I got so frustrated and had to fight to keep going. For me Ultima Thule was the worst out of all the stories in all the DLC. Extremely predictable and just all around bad. All the characters seemed to make the most dumb decisions and couldn't see what a toddler could see coming. They were even told exactly what was going on and happening yet either ignored it or just didn't let it sink in
What was your reaction to this scene?
GUILT. You have any idea how much I thought at that point that she was just the BBEG? I blamed her for almost everything. 😢
I cried. Thinking how alone she must have been, and how she destroyed the world she loved so dearly in order to save it and the mankind. and how the ending part is something that when you truly hit rock bottom you need to realize in order to get up form there. After you have been in the darkness you became great at wielding the light.
I had to go lay down for a bit i needed the break after this one even if that means dealing with that 6 hour log in queue again
I wept. I once blamed Hyde for all of this. But as we went through Elpis, I began to think differently. And now to see all this, all with "Answers" playing, and her walk, her walk with US, that broke me.
I didn't cry, but I did log out right after because I needed a night to emotionally process all of that.
The bit when hythlo turns and walks away is never specifically specified, but heavily accepted, that is the goodbye he gives Emet right before going to get sacrificed to zodiark
Also to add: almost the entire convecation were the first, the known being elidibus, hythlo, and lahabreah(Laha and eli withdrawing themselves at a later point to help the rest of the ascians in arr) some others joined emet and were unsundered somehow, and a couple (mainly azem) didn’t join the ascians/zodiark, seeking another way. The memory crystals in shadowbringers were meant to be used when the world was remade to remind sundered and sacrificed ascians who they were once they’d won/recruiting, but Emet made one for azem too because they had once been friends.
(Hydelyn also has a group of people who supported her in her idea, and helped make her a primal, they haven’t been as focused on but a few will come up at some point in your journey, the watcher and bunny bois are the main ones)
@@eternalsummer8409 The Convocation did not sacrifice themselves to Zodiark except Elidibus who became the heart. Of the remaining people, after accepting the need for the sacrifice half was chosen ... then again after the final dates were "stopped", to reinvigorate the planed half of the remaining people sacrificed themselves to Zodiark. Venat and her Group did not join the selection process keeping apart, being vary of the results of such an act, now we know Venat had foreknowledge, through we do not know how much she shared with the rest of the group.
Azem also decide to do his own thing, not joining either group, we dont know if this was part of Venats planning or just Azem being Azem.
Faced with the bloated Zodiark and its influence, Venats group sacrifices themselves and summon Hydaelyn, to keep him in check
The remaining well quarter, came up with the idea to nourish new life, then sacrifice all this life to replace the sacrificed ancients so that they can be brough back.
Unable to accept this course of action, and convince her people to abandon the plan Hydaelyn sunders the world splitting every living soul and the world itself into 14 pieces... (13 shards + Source) with the exception of Elidibus who has returned by separating from Zodiark, Emet, Laha - she deliberately allowed them to escape as she knew they were unsundered in the future, and probably was able to figure out they may play a role later.
The other convocation members were sundered and their souls entered the Atherial Sea and became reborn.
Its likely that as Zodiark was sundered so the souls in him were as well, but because they were stuck inside him in the stasis prison on the moon, they did not enter the Aetherial Sea they remained in the state they were at the time of their sacrifice.
The memory Crystals were used, after finding a soul of a convocation member to restore their memories of their time on the convocation and restoring them to the position.
Hythlodeus is not part of the convocation, as such he was not exempt from the selection. That said most Ancients would not even think of rejecting it, for the sake of saving their fellows.
@@eternalsummer8409Emet-Selch, Elidibus, Lahabrea and Venat herself were the only ones to not be sacrificed to Zodiark/Hydaelyn and also escape the sundering (to quote Shadowbringers lyrics: Fourfold knowing, no end in sight). Hythlodaeus was among the sacrifices to Zodiark. Also, Hythlodaeus wasn't on the convocation, he was just chief of the Bureau of the Architect
Oh my god, I never registered that Hythlo was leaving to be one of the sacrifices... Emet's anger feels so much more... justified.
It’s also the first sign of the slump in his posture
@@danh8804 I swear every time I see Emet I get reminded to unshrimp
13:05: the answer to answers. The question being from Hermes/metion: what gives life meaning? Venats answer is “to make your own meaning”
Venat's answer is the only one that the game gives that I agree with, honestly. What is meaning for one person might be ridiculous to another, but that doesn't make either invalid. We have to find what gives us joy and purpose, and that's the one answer Hermes obviously never considered.
Spoiler alert for shortly after this MSQ moment below:
@Tolly7249 Venat's answer is the same as Zenos'.
When we encounter Zenos during the Final Days, he says that the only meaning to be found in one's life has to be decided by you and you alone. For him, it's the hedonistic pursuit of joy he gets from fighting challenging opponents.
I still say that's one of if not THE best cutscenes in all of gaming right now. 10 years of build-up for that pay-off is worth every second, and when it shows SHE was giving you the strength to continue vs. Emet-Selch after Amaurot, it hits new emotions.
definitely... It hits so hard and it's executed so well. Between the visuals, all the years of plot building, plus such an amazing song as answers... I don't think anything else is really worth being considered as a match. Too much had been built up for that cutscene. It hits so many emotional points and themes in the story as well as issues people have probably thought about themselves...
That’s not how I interpreted it.
She’s been doing this for thousands of years. Hurt by multiple rejoinings, each enough to stop her in her tracks. When confronted with this she does the only thing she knows how to do. The same thing you did when you were at your lowest with Emet. Keep putting one foot in front of the other. If you keep fighting, you will somehow reach the end.
You are the same as her. You are both endwalkers.
This scene was just so good. After sitting there staring at my screen for probably 2 minutes, first thing I did was try to find the organ version of answers that starts @ 6:43 (it's "from the ashes" btw 😉)
It plays during Final Coil of Bahamut Turn 3(Phoenix ironically)
This scene still gets me every time. The flashes as she gets progressively more broken and scarred, not only is it painful to watch (even knowing this is a fictional character and not even a live person at that), when you make the connection that each flash represents a rejoining and it's calamity wreaking destruction on the source and the particular reflection. Damn. And Answers, it was always an incredible song, but now given the full context... it's a gut puncher.
An interesting observation I noticed on the 3rd or 4th watch of this, compare the ancients prayer at around 8:30 ish, to the post-credit cutscene of ARR, after Bahamut's roar is heard. This scene, I think, is a callback to the Ascians gathering and they raise their arms to praise Zodiark in that ARR cutscene. Since these aren't named, I dunno if it's supposed to be the same ones gathered, probably not, but still, neat little detail :)
This scene re-contextualized 'Answers' for me. Its not our song of suffering, of despair, of misery. It is the Ancients'. We only remember/experience it because the emotions in our soul (kind of like in 5.x when Elidibus was trying to 'inspire' more warriors of light with images of Amaruot).
In an interview, Yoshi-P commented that the muck on Venat was supposed to be blood, but either the ESRB or PEGI pumped the brakes on that and they changed it to that muck. I think it fits better, seeing as the damage inflicted on her was clearly the Rejoinings.
To me, this is the most important cutscene. There are many like it, but this one. This one is the one.
It also gives an analogue between her and Meteion: Both experienced the suffering and despair. But Venat, while carrying it with her, didn't let it consume her.
That cutscene never gets old. The cinematography is perfect, either depicting what happened in the past, what Venat is saying, or building atmosphere. They also made sure you could here some of the more important and relevant phrases in "Answers", especially at the end with Venat suffering while also watching mortals suffer. "In the same fleeting moment, thou must live, die, and know" is such a hard line
This was the most impactful cutscene I have ever seen in gaming. Amazing how the long, long story and all the lore all came together. Just wow.
Fr fr. This scene sends shivers down my spine
My reaction, besides sitting there with my jaw on the floor for five full minutes, was to realize that Answers had been singing to us about this whole damn thing for ten goddamned years. It was all right there in the song the whole time and we never knew it.
To be fair, Soken didn't know it either when he wrote it. It was written, in fact, for a cutscene intended to be in 1.0 but never used, as it was found in the game files before the decision to drop Dalamud was made behind the scenes.
The way the writers managed to tie it in to the rest of this plot, however, is absolutely genius
@@psymar Slight correction: It was Uematsu-san who wrote it, not Soken-san. :)
The scene we waited so long for, and it was just as, if not more, painful than expected, I'm sorry for ever doubting you Venat...
Yeah, you people who doubted her should feel bad...
Venat's dialogue here hits me so hard in the feels. And it feels so true in a way. Not just in game, but also in real life. I tend to be quite dramatic and expect the worst and can't always accept things as they are. XIV has really taught me patience and compassion towards life in general.
I tear up a little every time I watch this scene. It is so powerful to me
If this doesn't break your heart... It will never stop making me sad. Venat was willing to give up anything, suffer anything, for the chance at a more hopeful future. And she bloody did it. She suffered, gave up her very soul, because she knew sooner or later we would be there to help her. o7's for Venat.
o7
best mom ever
Bro I been dying for you to get to this point I can’t wait to see this
Most appropriate response possible.
I think your greenscreen needs a brightness minimum so it quits glitching on your black chair
In regards to the ancients' actions, keep in mind that their attempt to revive their lost ones happened, after three quaters of their population volunteered to sacrifice themselves, first half to create Zodiark and stop the final days, and then half of the survivors to restore the damage to the planet.
And that final quarter was then split between the restorationists, or whatever you wanna call it, and Venat's faction, that would eventually sacrifice themselves to create Hydaelyn.
Naturally it'd be the best and most virtuous, as well as those having given up, who'd volunteer to sacrifice their lives to Zodiark, the repair and Hydaelyn. Which naturally left the worst parts of their population, and those incapable of letting go to remain behind, and dishonour and disregard the sacrifice their betters have made. And as a primal, beholden to the will of those whorshipping it, Zodiark couldn't resist his purpose being changed.
By the way, I recommend listening to this cutscene in the original Japanese. While the English is good, I think the original clearnly blows it out of the water, with far more emotion being put in Venat's speech.
We do not know how who was sacrificed was determined, if it was just voluntary, or because all the Ancients were willing there was some kind of lottery or such.
As if it was purely voluntary there would be reasons to keep someone as important as Hythlo from becoming a sacrifice.
Vague spoiler for Pandemonium
End of EW Raids .... a certain character states he will defy the Convocations directive, which does seem to imply a degree of selection, or this statement would not make much sense.
@@Ower8x Yes we do know. Emet told us straight up, that they went to their deathes willingly. Granted, it's while he's vaxing passionatly why the ancients are so much more worth and thus it's okay to sacrifice all the lesser races to revive them, but even so, I doubt he'd just make stuff up that goes directly contraty to what happened.
And the ones stuck inside Zodiark, when Fandaniel is taking over, also make a very strong impression of wanting Zodiark to continue to exist for the sake of the world, instead of being released into the lifestream.
@@Norbert_Sattler
Pandemonium vague Spoiler, mention one text from a certain character:
Again the message in the crystal indicates there was a degree of ordering there.
Or there would not be a need for words like Defy and Directive. This was written for with EW, maybe its a translation issue, cant say, but in English its clearly says Defy.
If it was pure voluntary the text should be more like:
"I can not heed the request of the Convocation. I can not volunteer my soul ... "
Instead we get:
"I must defy the directive of the Convocation. My soul will not be offered ..."
Not going to lie I cried hard during this scene. So sad the entire last bit of the MSQ was written so bad. I wish it had stopped here. I was drawn in and really enjoying it and then Ultima Thule hit. Then I got so frustrated and had to fight to keep going. For me Ultima Thule was the worst out of all the stories in all the DLC. Extremely predictable and just all around bad. All the characters seemed to make the most dumb decisions and couldn't see what a toddler could see coming. They were even told exactly what was going on and happening yet either ignored it or just didn't let it sink in