Guitar Center and the End of Big Box Retail
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this episode of Everything Music we discuss the latest news about Guitar Center's Imminent Bankruptcy.
Rhett Shull - TH-cam / rshull07
Dave Onorato - / dave.onorato
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I grew up in Juneau, Alaska in the 80s. My brother and I spent most of our free time in the local music store and the owners were like mentors to us. They taught us all about how to play and gear. I remember getting off the school bus everyday and going straight to the store instead of going home. My brother ended up working there in high school. He is now a college music professor and I am a public school music teacher. The store changed our lives forever!
I remember this from the 80s too. I remember thinking the guys who worked there were so cool.
As a former employee, I can say that at the point when I worked there GC cared more about pushing their pro coverage than product knowledge.
You say you don't need until you need it.
It's a good warranty, but they do push it too hard because employees are liable to be fired if they don't sell a certain amount every month, and it costs too much.
@@IgnorancEnArroganceThere is a goal, but I have never heard of anyone getting fired if they don't make the goal. Please link to anyone who has been fired for not selling enough PC.
@@JimJWalker - Honestly I haven't either, since I have been working there for the past 9 months. It's just something they hover over your head, and all I know is that one of our longtime employees were slated to get fired but the manager fought for him to stay. They have become more lenient with it, and give you several months to get back to the standard, which they call the "probation period", and everyone seems to get back on track within 3 months. It could just be a tactic to create incentive, but it's based on fear which isn't as effective. When I learn more, I'll get back to you because I haven't asked too much about it since I started.
@@IgnorancEnArrogance Negative reinforcement is a reality at GC, unfortunately.
My shop survives in Rapid City SD, because we are the only amplifier/ keyboard repair shop for hundreds of miles. We stay stocked up on parts and Vacuum tubes. 2 expert techs. 100 years of knowledge. Longest warranty nationwide. The internet is not a problem.
Agree. That's why the internet can't touch you for now - knowledge and service. I'll gladly pay extra for those two qualities and save the online shopping for strings and cables.
I ran the guitar department at the EU Wurlitzer next door to Berkelee College of Music in Boston back in the 90's. Mid-size regional New England chain. The entire store, and the entire chain for that matter was basically staffed 100% by knowledgeable, active musicians. If a customer wanted something I didn't have I could get on the phone to another location and find it for them. We even had discretion to (gasp) contact distributors and manufacturers directly. I remember a customer writing a letter to the CEO thanking me personally for finally scoring a Jeff Beck Strat out of Fender for him. We held our own with Guitar Center, MARS, & Daddy's Junky, in fact I had friends at those stores too and wouldn't hesitate to send a customer their way if they had something special I just couldn't find. They always returned the favor. One day Matt Guitar Murphy called our store and the keyboard guy transferred him over to me. We had a PRS Rosewood Limited on the cover of our monthly flyer, Matt wanted to know how much it was. I told him it was tagged at $10k, he said "take it off the wall, I'll be down tomorrow..." He didn't try to haggle one bit & I ended up with a $1500 commission check for the single sale. The general manager took me out to lunch. Apparently some old salesman had ordered the guitar as a display item to the tune of $6500, and they'd been trying to sell it ever since. Eventually the chain got sold and ultimately went out of business, but man were those the glory days...
I brought a 85 Fender Japan Paisley Tele at the Seekonk Ma. store in 94. 26 years later, it's my favorite axe. Damn shame you guys went under (Daddy's too), the only gc I've been to that didn't suck were in the Hub. The MARS in Sommerville was cool too.
Well it’s 2019 and it’s still open. I remember the first time going to guitar center my mind was blown, it was awesome. Now it’s like the music version of autozone
DapperDan great way to put it! I agree!
it sucks..i hate GC!
Yep. It’s sad. But in a lot of parts of the country, it’s people’s only option to try gear before they buy stuff. I just bought a guitar online 2 days ago, from a great place with good policies, but it STILL feels weird buying a guitar without playing it for me
Yep. It's no longer The SAME GC that I walked in the mid 90's
Yep. GUITARZONE.
All of these large conglomerates suffer from the same problem, the people at the top come out of business schools with the idea that employees are an expense not an asset. It’s all about cutting costs to increase profits to the point that it becomes counterproductive. I’ve been through it twice working for companies bought out by a larger corporation where the employee is just a number.
gwynn romano bean counters for ya. It's not what I learned in business school but labor is the easiest expense to cut. These places don't realize fewer decent employees = shitty customer experience
Ryan Frady As a store manager, it’s the constant refrain from corporate headquarters, “Labor’s your biggest expense!” I know it is but if I don’t have good people then customers don’t have a good experience. If they don’t have a good experience then they don’t come back. I think it may be part of the reason that online retailers have enjoyed so much success. It isn’t all about cheap prices. I frequently go to the local hardware store rather than the big orange box store that’s almost as close to my house because I get personal attention, they have what I want and I’m in and out.
that's everywhere in every job on earth unless you are the owner.
it comes down to what you can do,not who you are ......
that is why you are paid so who gives a rats ass about you or me as a person?
gwynn romano yup straight up
@@gwynnromano5881 Labor is your biggest expense is how that works in professional sports.
When I was a teenager growing up in Queens, NY back in the 80s we would often cut school and head into Manhattan to go to 48th St. and spend all day there. The entire block was nothing more than one music store after the other. First we'd go to Manny's, then Sam Ash, then Alex Music, then Electro Harmonix etc. That entire block is now devoid of any music stores. Its so sad that its all gone away.
Those were great days. Pick up some sheet music at Colony's and stare through the window at all the instruments at 1am at Manny's.
I live down the street from a guitar center. When I want some gear, I drive right past it, get on a freeway, drive past ANOTHER guitar center, to the closest Sam Ash 30 miles away. The reason: I swore never to go back when I witnessed two Guitar Center associates making fun of a customer playing one of their pianos. Fk guitar center.
I understand you I did the same with a music store close to my home
I got a screamin' deal on a brand new Fender Select Strat in 2013 from a Sam Ash in CA. Sadly, there are no Sam Ash stores in CO where live now.
Did you ever maybe stop to think its possible those two employees just happened to be jag offs? Why does that necessarily mean every single guitar center sucks? What if you happen to run into a jerk working at sam ash one day? Are you going to write off every single sam ash and never go back? Same thing for any fast food place or grocery store? Idk it just seems a bit overdramatic, dont you think?
Video Killed The Radio Star.
Internet Killed Everyone's Star.
I literally went to Guitar Center a few months ago and asked them if they had any 335's and they literally didn't even know what I was talking about. At. Guitar. Center.
Yeah, Room 335, wasn't that like a series or something...?!
Rob Flynn Room 222. You are so showing your age.
Lol
I get the hating over GC. But not everybody is a “professional” or “artist”. For us newbies, some of the remaining small guitar shops in our area act like elitists. You can’t even pick up a guitar and play it without the owner hanging over you. At least I can walk into a GC, and be by myself trying out Guitars. Sometime musicians are their own worse enemies, attitudes and zero social skills.
I just wrote a comment on this video because it came on after another Rick video. In case you can't find it, by bottom line was "...please don't make someone feel inferior when they're playing an instrument in a store. We're all constantly learning, trying new things, and I don't want a future musician to get discouraged because someone said something or gave them a raised eyebrow at a store. I love the community feel of the mom and pop stores -- but it shouldn't be an elitist community. We have to foster creative development for the next generation so great music can continue to be written and played." KEEP ON PLAYING!!
the attitude man .. the attitude.
That was one of the reasons I loved going to the MARS Music stores before they went under. The one in my area had way better stuff the GC. It had more room and was a giant store. More stuff. The GC is tiny and crowded with no room to move around between all the stuff jammed in it and the employees hovering around you and other customers. Very claustrophobic. Nothing at the MARS was off limits there. Nobody hung over you. Everyone was friendly and I made many friends there that I still hang with even after it closed more than 20 years ago. Rick and these guys often sound like a bunch of old fuddy-duddies bitching about everything under the sun. I now buy my stuff from Musicians Friends and get lots of stuff free from them from their rewards system. They are great and very helpful. And there is no problem if you don't like something sending it back.
I definitely don't disagree with you I was fortunate as a youngster and had two small music shops near me as a kid who fostered people learning the awe inspiring craft that is music as opposed to elitist douchebags
this is so true
The guys in my band used to drive from Vermont to Albany NY to hit up the independent music store Drome Sound. What a store! It was like heaven and had that feel you are describing. The guys at the store knew us and treated us great because they knew how far we came to see and touch gear that was not available anywhere in Vermont. Fond memories.
I’ve read and can identify with so many of the stories here. But still no solid answers yet. The people at GC were monsters. It was worse than buying a used car. They have honestly tried to clean up their game, but they backslide. Also, it’s hard to get people out of their house and into a venue to enjoy live music. We have a few on the west coast like Spaghatinniwho have great live music and food. But it’s an expensive evening. Leave us not forget how we sold our souls to the devil call streaming platforms, who take your music and pay you back a fraction of a penny per spin. So a few thousand spins yield enough money for guitar strings. Yet we still get out hustle songs Rehearse and try to find gigs. Why? Because we love to play.
I grew up in the Albany/Schenectady area and spent a good part of my teen years at Drome Sound. It really was a great store back in the day.
They treated you great cause they were commission based and had crazy markups ha
When GC was bought by Bain Capital, that was the beginning of the end. I run a an accessories company and we used to be a vendor of GC. They had a guy, Marek Stycos, running the pro audio merchandising and the national district managers - and this dude was the reason they used to carry such high end pro audio. He knew his stuff, knew how to merchandise, and knew how to motivate his people. When Bain bought GC, that's when it all started to change. Cost cutting across the board, the buyers were clueless (and without having guys like Marek telling them what they needed, they followed the orders of the top brass and started to buy low end, cheap crap - and that's when Sweetwater took the top spot for those of us who wanted high end gear and top level service. Bye Bye GC - not gonna miss you.
Your post explains it all, venture capitalists.They ruined good companies. They're like financial vampires,suck the money out of the business,and move on to the next.
When I started playing there was a local music store that had a lot of both new and used. The best part was the store actually encouraged you to hang out and check out stuff even when they knew you were not buying today. Hanging out there became a part of the local music scene. On any given Saturday there was always a few guys I knew from other bands in there and just as often guys who I didn't know from other bands who I got to know because that store. We sat around, shared experiences and often discussed which local clubs were looking for bands and what band was looking for a new bass player, singer etc. This created a dedicated following for that store by the local musicians.
I once had an amp die on a Saturday afternoon and I needed a new amp to play that night. I had zero cash available to buy a new amp but I called the stores owner and explained my situation and asked if he would rent me amp for the night. He said come on down and we'll work out something. As it turned out I saw a new amp I really liked and he said: "Take it and come back Monday to work out how you will pay for it". I went and did my gig and on Monday I put down $100 (gig money) and he let me pay it off over time. Those kind of places and private store owners are are long gone. I miss them a great deal.
This comment really captures the essence of what shops used to be, a place to hang out with like minded people.. nowdays it seems places like this in more than just the music scene are less and less present. No one hangs out in a department store and no one really hangs out in coffee shops all that much unless they are just sitting around on a laptop,.. even then are they really exchanging anything useful like a music / electronic / etc shop? Sure there are exceptions, but it feels like shops used to be a lot cooler places to go, where as now it's just shoving things down your throat for profit
@Possumlove, you are correct that not all small, local shops were or are the greatest. My small town shop had a poor selection, and most of the used guitars, and the cheap Chinese "Washburns" sold new had terrible actions. Add to that selling at pretty close to retail. I was taking lessons, one kid drum lessons, the other piano there and when it closed last year it was very sad. But it was an enemy onto itself as much as the Internet was.
Long gone? Not really. You just have to get online and find out where they are. In my city of 300k people, we have a GC but we also have 4 privately owned music stores/guitar shops.
They're not dead by a long shot.
I have a fun story for you guys ---I play electric violin and happened to be in the local GC in south Denver last year checking stuff out. There was a high school age kid and his mom shopping for an amp for an electric violin they had just bought. They obviously had no idea what they were looking for. Unfortunately, neither did the GC employee with whom they were working. After hanging around and listening for awhile, I learned that they were being gravely mis-led by this individual, so I just had to step in. After about half an hour, the happy customers were walking out of the store with a nice low-range acoustic guitar amp and a Gig-Pro pre-amp unit, and a couple of cables, all of which I helped set up for a test drive, as well as giving a lot of practical guidance on how to adjust EQs and tones for the best sound on a peizo driven e-violin. Had I left them to the GC employee, the lad would have likely ended up purchasing a high gain electric guitar amp with which he would have 'screeched' their neighbors into oblivion! Also, the GC employee was most grateful that I was able to intervene and steer these folks in the right direction. I didn't get a commission, though.....
Edward Mitton, I love the Guitar Center in Pueblo! A couple years ago, I mentioned to my son who lives in southern Colorado, that I’d always wanted to learn to play guitar, but my family was quite poor and it wasn’t an option. I was in band and played trumpet and French horn and loved it, and when I turned 40, I took piano lessons, but never learned how to play guitar. The following weekend we road tripped to Pueblo to GC and he surprised me by buying me a Martin acoustic AND a Fender Strat and an amp. We have a couple guys there who are musicians and were very helpful...we’ve been back a number of times...we may add a keyboard this coming winter...we added a Fender bass last winter...I’m 63 and can’t believe I “get to” learn to play...so I don’t think all GC are the same. I hope they don’t close because as with independent bookstores...they’re getting fewer and far between...
No reward nor commission, but that was still a very cool thing to do. At some point the universe will pay you back. But until then keep on grooving.
Edward Mitton, hey I went to school with a kid named Mitton. He used to deliver the morning paper on a Campus Green Schwinn Collegiate with saddlebags. BTW, are you fan of ELO?
When the Barbarians took over Rome and the aqueduct quit working, one said to the other, "I wonder how that worked?" The other said, "I dunno, but we can use the rocks to build an outhouse." One said, "Good idea."
Just walked back into a GC the other day after years away from my guitars.....and looked around in horror to find that it's staffed with minimum wage 'clerks'. Literally, the main guitar section guy knew less about playing guitar than me, and I can barely play power chords. The only 'pro' was in the DJ section. Really? Corporate structure has turned GC into Wal Mart. Just another box store. Luckily I discovered a local mom-and-pop that has filled the gap!
Love these episodes with you and these two dudes. Good insights. Thanks man
This really hit the nail on the head IMO. I used to work for GC back in the mid 2k's. I worked pro rodeo along with one of my good friends. We both came from pro studio and engineering backgrounds and usually did high end studio/audio set-ups. We worked with 2 guys that would hunt sales, and we didn't agree with it. We would ask questions, "walk" deals, and develop mutual respect for our clients, not our "customers". We constantly got fucked for this as soon as GC went public and the shareholders started dictating THEIR business ethics into OUR work place. Management had to side with them due to numbers, not doing the right thing for the customers. When a business focuses on only numbers, they take the humanity out of it. From my experience, humans don't like that.
I worked at a mom and pop in a mid-sized city in the mid to late 90s. I'd been a customer there since the early 70s. It was THE meeting place for "combo" musicians -- pro and amateur, beginners and virtuosos. It had one of the best repair centers in the mid-south. The owner and every guy that worked there was a musician. But big box and Musician's Friend ran it out of business. People would come in the store, play with every pedal, ask the staff questions for an hour, and then go order the one they wanted from MF. We'd been a Fender Dealer since 1963, and the catalogs sold American Standards for $50 over our cost. I can't believe people buy guitars without playing them, but I know pros that do it. When we closed in 1999, a Guitar Center opened immediately. Compared to our store, it was a Walmart from day one. You can't have it both ways. When I was growing up in the 1960s, there was probably 100 stores that sold televisions, all made in the U.S. Now there's Best Buy, Walmart, and online, and nothing is made here. Most people think Best Buy is a discount retailer. HAH! You tell me how things have improved.
We need to check ourselves. Guitar Center didn't ruin the stores who couldn't compete. Customers did. If people "valued" the things you describe, they'd pay for it and the stores offering it would compete. But people put price over all of the rest of the romantic ideas of community and service and product knowledge and that kills retail. Customers are the problem. We can look at the state of the market and then look in the mirror. We did this.
Agree; try there and buy elsewhere (online) doesn't pay the rent and the really good experts on the sales staff had to find bread in some other gig. Being a showroom for the online stores is not a sustainable business model.
We blew it, didn't we?
Why is there a low wage economy? Because we buy the cheapest. Voting in elections is a farce, the real power is spending your conscience. If there was a market incentive to sell products made by people making a fair wage, companies would pay more. But there is only an incentive to sell products at a lower price point, so they cut costs, narrow margins and win on price.
Guitar Center sold things below GP, thereby screwing over employees of commissions, and the company of profits.
GC GROOMED customers to haggle.
The problem was NOT that the small shops could not compete. What GC was doing was NOT competition. It was business suicide.
I worked at the GC in Hollywood on the Sunset Strip, in drums, during the early 2000s. Here's an example of what was happening in the store.
Customer picks out a throne that retails for $160. GC policy is to "beat advertised prices." Customer says Sam Ash has it for $70, and does not have an ad. The GP is $90, and selling it for $70 would mean selling it below cost.
I said no to the customer and they started to throw a fit. Manager gets on my cash register, bypasses systems to keep ME from messing with prices, and proceeds to sell it to the guy for $70 FLAT [with tax baked in].
AS A COMPANY: How is GC supposed to make money?
AS THE COMPETITION: How would you compete with THAT?
AS A SALESMAN: How can I ever "break the fade" and make a commission like this?
Yes, the customers were greedy, unfeeling dicks during these years. However, GC GROOMED the customers into this behavior, encouraging them to haggle. At one point, our store did not even have price tags on it. Just mystery bar codes that had to be scanned. Haggle away.
Based on my experiences and observations, sure, some of the customers are to blame. If you haggled at GC in the early 2000s, then you are a big part of the problem. HOWEVER, GC also must be held responsible for fostering the environment and encouraging customers to haggle.
Really, what GC was doing cannot be called "competing." There is no way any company, or even online service, could compete with what they were doing. What they were doing was ultimately self-destructive, and it hurt more than the little shops.
I didn’t do shit. The only time I buy anything from GC is if it’s something I needed right then, like Strings or cables. I’ve never made a big purchase there and I own 12 guitars.
I miss those mom and pops music stores.
I try to shop at the two small music shops on Main Street. Both are run by master musicians. When I walk in the one, the owner is always there, and I yell to him "Jimmy!"...always gives me great advice and service. The other shop is where I go for repairs, where I've gone in crying with an emergency repair (a big gig scheduled the next day), and the owner would always fix me up....and sometimes for only cost of parts OR even free.
You guys are like hangin' out with cool old friends, thank you, truly.
Former Guitar Center CEO Darrell Webb was a former CEO for Sports Authority. We all know how that ended.
I remember as I was growing up in the mid 80’s all we had was the local music stores and I don’t remember those days in as positive a light as these three guys. First of all it was super overpriced for even a pack of strings. Secondly we didn’t have all the resources that are available today to go in with a reasonably informed idea of what to purchase, so we’d be at the mercy of salesman and their stuck up attitudes looking down at all us kids who were just getting going in our musical journey. These guys sound like these kind of salesmen we were subjected to. That’s why GC and all the internet stores put all those places out of business.
Yep, I had the same experience. Sure, there aren't as many stores any more. But the ones that are still around are great stores that know how to run a business. I don't think people that lack the past experience understand how much this industry has grown and improved over the years. Everything from selection to product quality is so much better and cheaper.
Most local stores in my area did make me feel inferior and intimidated. There was one that I pushed my way into, slowly, took lessons, hung out, etc. But that was only one and it was a long time ago.
I think this is a VERY important point to all this. When this subject is addressed by real musicians, like these guys, who can garner the respect of anyone working at any music store it is one experience. Someone like many of us that will at some point become spotted as the newbie we are, at least by contrast, will be seen as a time waster that probably won't be a repeat customer or buy very expensive things from them. I would assume the average newbie is going to buy some inexpensive gear to get started with, as they should, then only after sticking with it long enough to know what they want to move up to, will then buy more and maybe even not from them. I imagine that a new customer/player that signs up for their lessons, if still offered, will fall into a better bracket of customer. If you show them how serious you are about learning and talk with them enough eventually you will likely win them over. Should you need to do that? Hell no!
This all sounds very much like I remember music stores pre-internet and pre-GC. I can relate to what they're saying about these places and I also want the mom and pop shops to stay around and even flourish. I do also remember how much so many of us enjoyed that new GC when they first came to town. The quiet rooms to test gear, the vast array of everything in the market there to try out, and there were knowledgeable people working there to answer questions, though they ranged from being more like a sales clerk at an electronics store chain to that snobby elitist from the local shop down the street. A lot of those people have the technical know how and experience with bands or what-not but they lack the people skills of the sales clerk. There is good and bad in all of it. Hopefully this will all be a great learning experience and we will come out of it a better community with better shopping experiences.
I think the small shop experience completely depends on the particular small shop. The one we had when I was a kid and teen (late 70s early 80s) was great. No snobbery and an owner who cared about what all his customers received in the way of products and service.
I recent years I’ve gone to GC a bunch of times. On occasion I’d find an employee who something and who actually cared to be helpful. Most of the time it’s like any other big-box store, be it Target, Home Depot, or GC. With big corporations running things you really can’t expect anything except maybe low prices.
The piano business (what’s left of it) is still that way. People are still ignorant about pianos and most manufacturers still don’t allow internet competition.
But as to mom and pop guitar stores, they aren’t all out of business. And GC’s complete dearth of customer service is driving customers back to them.
And I’ve been in the old Rhythm City he mentions. Bought a Peavey Combo 300 bass amp there in 1987. Still have it. Pots need cleaning but it still rattles the rafters.
The middle class suffers,things like musical instruments become even more of a luxury than before.
Rick, unrelated to the topic at hand I just wanted to let you know that I could watch you, Rhett, and Dave sit and talk shop for hours. In fact, I do. While locked in and working from home I pretty much just have your videos playing on my second monitor while I grind out the day. Appreciate such deep content!
I had to hook up a pedal myself recently so I could try it, because the sales clerk was so inexperienced. The manager did spend a good bit of time training an employee how to use the intercom. That's what the customer cares about...
Plus their guitar tech had quit, they hadn't hired a new one after several months, and moved to a smaller local company, so I went there for service instead. Will never buy from GC again. Instead I give my business to the smaller shops who know me.
I think its also the fact that you don't need the advice of store employees anymore. The internet is so full of knowledge/forums about gear that you usually already know whats the best in what pricerange before you even go to a store to try things out. You don't go in knowing nothing, you probably already spent two days searching through internet forums for advice on the gear you wanna buy.
Psychedelta Blues good point
true
I respectfully disagree. I've lived through a lot of years in music stores. When you start believing you know everything because you have done research on the internet you are just taking part in correlation bias, you buy what the internet influencers and paid search engines guide you to. There was a time when you walked into a store to buy guitar X new, and the sales person said , hey I have a used 66 guild hollowbody I think you will really like, or a 61 Tele etc. Then you tried it yourself and formed your own opinions instead of buying what everybody says you should buy. The box stores and Sweetwater don't trade in used gear, and webpages like Reverb have ruined local used gear shopping.
i disagree too. moms go there to buy gitfs. people get stuff for their gf/bf. what if i see somethign else there, that i might want but didnt research? 25 years ago i could ask someone. Its unequivocally bad to have clueless employees. GC was much better a long time ago but even then the average employee didnt know much.
Psychedelta Blues Not to mention there are also WAY more guitar brands and components to know than there were 20 years ago. They’re essentially complaining that people today haven’t memorized a library the same way people used to memorize a single short story.
The big problem is Bain Capital.
Mitt Romney's company.
@@analogeit They own GC.
Dave: "Andre 2000"
Rhett: *looks to camera and smirks*
Thank you for pointing this out. It's my new favorite thing ever.
I love this channel but I’m confused why the elephant in the room only got a slight nod in a 33 minute video. The main reason why GC is dying is because brick and mortar is dying. All the other things you guys talked about is true but the main reason why I don’t go to GC consistently is because of Sweetwater, Reverb, and Amazon.
Your right Home Depot use to have ex-carpenters working there, now it a bunch of people who know nothing.
Yeah that and the gigs just aren’t around anymore like they used to be. It’s not like there’s that many actively performing musicians around anymore.
How do you buy a guitar without playing it first? A keyboard??? sure. But a guitar?
Guitars are the only exception. Amps sometimes.
Smokin' Joe I did it twice and was scared. But it worked out great both times. Now I don't wanna push my luck.
So Guitar Center killed the small guys and Amazon has now killed them off. Sounds like a food chain of some kind lol ;-)
People just don’t want to go out of their way when they can just TH-cam a demo. Amazon was just smart enough to catch on quick.
Sharks patrol those waters
It happened to the Dinosaurs, They were so huge, their food supply dwindled, and died off. The little rodents hiding in the cracks, and didnt need to eat much, thrived after that. That's my anthro/metaphoric view on that.
Now I live in the Podunk of Podunk. But I have access to things that were never accessible to me unless I went out of state. That's what Amazon has brought. Making a lot of people, for good or bad, consumers that no one would have sold to. But when they price them selves out, the little rodents will come back.
Not in my area. The demise of mom & pop stores started way before we even had a semi-local GC. If anything, GC revived a dead market around here. My only complaint is they're so short staffed all of the time.
You guys described exactly what is going on at the GC in my town. I still frequent the GC for the same reasons; get some cash and stop by to see what you can't live without. I literally just bought a SquierTele yesterday. I love hitting that place and hope they stay afloat.
My local GC has been awesome. The owner talks me out of purchases all the time. He regularly says "is your guitar perfect? Then don't get anything just play it."
We bought our studio monitors from a guy in Portland called Tidepool Audio. Were getting back to the Wild West. the way it should be. Every man for himself. Every band without a label... all the middle men are in trouble and now its our time as creatives to shine. We're more excited than ever to start our band and share the journey with everyone
My local guitar centers do have friendly and helpful staff. My only bad experience was 25 years ago, when the sales rep tried to chew me out, for making a purchase that he didn't get a commission on, telling him I didn't need anything else..
GC used to be a fun and magical place to go before it was remodeled and restructured about 5 or 6 years ago. It was never the same once the store was remodeled, as described in the video. Once it was remodeled the staff changed, it felt different, and felt "dead." The magic was gone forever and now GC is just a shell of what it used to be. It is sad to see but perhaps darkly poetic.
Last time I went to GC my girlfriend told the guy behind the counter I was in Led Zeppelin and he believed her LMAO!!!
lmao
I’m gonna go into the local guitar center and tell them my wife is in Pink Floyd. They know me but they don’t know her.
Retail Rule #1 - - The customer is always right.
Retail Rule #1(a) - Don't call the customer a liar.
Life Rule #62 - If the crazy lady says her boyfriend was in Led Zeppelin, nod your head and smile. A shocked expression and saying "Really? That's awesome" may keep the crazy lady from spitting on you.
@Scott Brown, really? Is that why he asked for an autograph? And no, not for the credit receipt
I should have signed it John Bonham
This video prompted some memories. I remember driving down from my desert town to the Guitar Center on Sunset Blvd in Los Angeles to buy my first amp in 2000 probably. I had saved and was so excited. A 100 watt Marshall Valvestate. I don't think the Valvestate line lasted too long. I still love that amp though. That Guitar Center was incredible. I remember walking in and being struck with such an awe. There was a very tall wall lined with electric guitars (I remember seeing a vintage Statocaster for ~$40,000 hanging at the top), a sound proofed room where you could crank up an amp to test the sound, and a strictly acoustic guitar room with a distinct kind of still air smell to it. I'm sure there would have been a drum section and other dedicated areas as well. It's hard to describe the unique feeling and impact this store caused. It was a very distinct place. It was a force. A couple years later a Guitar Center went up much closer to home. It was exciting to have one closer, but this location was complete cookie cutter. Nothing like the older one with character on Sunset Blvd. Perhaps some sort of change in corporate management had occurred.
Years later I was a poor college student in AZ, and needed help with my guitar. I found more of a Mom and Pop type music store in Mesa with an awesome guitar tech. He knew I was broke and I couldn't pay him for repairs so instead he helped me open the back of my guitar and draw a wiring diagram for me so I could make the repairs myself at home. Fun memories. How time passes and things change. Thank you for your videos Rick.
Did he say “Andre 2000”? 😂 And the look on the other dude’s face, looking into the camera. 26:28
Todd Tahtinen he took a whole 1000 of his name🤣
Manu Edwards 😋
That Look,... 👌😂
Rhett giving strong side eye
That was funny, I had to Google Andre 2000, and then Andre 3000 came up, but that was funny
I grew up in Manny’s Music (Manny was my great-grandfather) and I have to say, it is slightly cathartic to see what is happening to places like GC. Manny’s was all about taking care of the customer. The staff were all pros and knew what they were talking about. Ultimately, just couldn’t compete with the likes of GC.
@@rationalthinker1 there’s a Mannys music in Australia? I was talking about the one on 48th in NYC.
I recently bought a little Fender Rumble practice amp, because my coworker gave me two 1990s Korean made, Fender style basses (Samick and Squire). I haven't owned or touched a bass in almost 20 years, so I went to a Guitar Center to buy a little amp.
I talked to a young salesman and he told me that he has a Fender Rumble 500 that he gigs with and he loves it. We started talking about the various Rumble amps in the store. I very casually mentioned that any of the amps that had an 8 ohm extension speaker jack, would only put out about 70% of it's rated power through the internal 4 ohm speaker. The 100 watt and less Rumble amps didn't have extension jacks, so I guessed that they would put out their full power rating.
The young salesman was adamant that his Rumble 500 would put out a full 500 watts by itself. I looked at the back of all the floor model Rumble amps and I showed the salesman, that only the 200 and 500 amps had 8 ohm speaker extension jacks. I guessed that the Rumnle 200 would only put out about 140 watts at 4 ohms and his Rumble 500 would only put out 350 watts at 4 ohms. I told him that unless he bought a separate 8 ohm speaker cabinet, he would only be getting about 70% of his rated power output. He didn't believe me. I couldn't get a phone signal in the store to show him what I already knew was true. He looked at me, like I was just some dumb, old guy.
The dude works in a busy guitar store, he plays in a band, he actually owns the product in question and some old dude off the street, who hasn't bought amp since 1978 and hasn't played a bass in 19 years, knows more about his amp than he does.
You know what? I don't typically care for "talk show" types of content, but you guys have the experience, the knowledge, the background...etc. You guys are bad ass! Thank you for the quality of content, and leaving me to feel like I'm NOT the only one!!!
No Stairway...Denied...Okay someone had to say it
I've been doing an acoustic version of Stairway. Every music store loves it so far.
Joe Calandrella
We’re living in a transitional time.
I’m 50, and recognized many years back that local stores were in big trouble.
The arc of things will return to, “local is better”, eventually, but not for a long time.
However, pawnshops are still a good place to find cheap gear, and ignorant staff works in your favor...
It might be a really long time before local economies get any cut of retail again outside of art style stuff or boutique price level and above goods.
Sure your county might host the next PRS, but you're not getting a lick of that Gibson or Fender money and all the jobs involved in selling them.
Good for the customer, bad for the community.
Pawn shops are hit and miss.
Mostly miss BC the prices are outrageous. But occasionally you can get a good through haggling.
You are spot on with GC. I have taught my kids, “ You vote with your dollars.” Spend your money in small local businesses when you can. I live in Portland, Or. and we still have many quality music shops because of this type of thinking. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification culture. Anticipating is sometimes more mentally powerful then possessing. Rick, I love what you are doing. More power to you and thanks!
What was lost was actual hanging out and socializing. I miss the days off meeting people that are great no internet.
You could change the name in this discussion from gc and change it for another and it could apply to so many companies.
dentoncrimescene very true, I just was hired two months ago & just got let go from Leslie’s pool supply & Repair, exactly the same case. I was one of those employees that really knew nothing about pools, but needed a job & they hired me. They no longer seek to keep the pros that hv been taking care of pools for a long time, that know a lot about the industry & can connect with customers on their individual situation. It’s all about sales, pushing product & upselling things that a customer may not need or can afford.
I interviewed to sell at my local G.C in PA, but found out the hourly pay was low and commission unrealistic. I imagined X-many sales an hour (in my assigned dept.), and the pay wouldn't have made it worth a 35 min. commute to work.
The G.C. in Hallandale FL was awesome and large - even had lesson and practice rooms. I enjoyed talking to the knowlegable salespeople. I hope these larger centers don't dissapear.
I have been to America once, in Austin , Texas in 2016. One of my friends band "Overload" was invited to perform in the SXSW festival. So he asked me to come with him on this trip. Before that i have seen America only in movies, Tv and later on youtube. I cannot explain how amazing the whole experience was for me , the infrastructure, the cultural diversity and buildings, churches, shops, universities without any boundaries, the interaction with different people.
Then I visited Guitar Center and a couple of other music centres. It was amazing to see all the instruments so accessible in front of my eyes, I was in awe, I never imagined that I would ever have this experience. There was a huge wall of guitars on one side and all the amps were switched on and you could pick any instrument and play it.
I was there for 20 days and it was absolutely fantastic. Whenever i entered a big music store, this thought came to my mind, that every software, instrument and music facility is easily accessible to everybody , if you can't pay in full , you can get it on instalments, what a blessing for the locals. You can try different instruments and then buy which ever you like. Of course developed countries have their own problems but it was a great experience for me.
It's getting this way everywhere....nobody knows whats going on where they work. Good knowledge, and customer support is a thing of the past I'm afraid.
It seems like guitar center got too focused on making sales and didn’t care about the actual music.
Reminds me of MTV lol
They're a store. Of course sales is their focus.
Jason Bone I mean, (and this a very broad assumption) it seems like they focused more on hiring people who were good at sales rather than people who were passionate about music and the musician. I know it’s not the case for every store or employee.
GC employees earn a significant part of their income through commissions and spiffs (bonuses for selling certain items), which is why they push add-on sales so hard. Same as Best Buy, they don't care how much you know or how well you play, ability to sell is the number one priority when deciding who to hire and put on the schedule.
AnomieX For sure, I actually almost worked there but decided it wasn’t the right thing for me. A company definitely has to make money and sales is the way to do that.
AnomieX not at the GC in Indianapolis. They’re almost all just young kids. I assume that’s because they work cheap.
Hearing you talk about the cacophony of noise in guitar stores reminded me of something. Back in the early ‘90s a friend of mine worked in one of the better guitar shops on London’s Denmark Street (*the* place for instruments in town). On the wall was a sign that read ‘NO ‘STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN’ - PENALTY £5’ to discourage people from playing it. One day my friend was out at lunch and came back to find some bloke blatantly disregarding the notice and playing it. He pretty much tapped the guy on the shoulder from behind and said, “Excuse me, mate, didn’t you see the sign? No ‘Stairway’!” Guy turned round, it was Jimmy Page.
Guys, Spot on! I sincerely hope the GC management sees your video. You have nailed many things that are wrong with GC. I do travel for work throughout the Mid-West and have been to several GCs just to hang out. The big turn off is they are all the same and there is no local flavor. I even went to the flagship store in Nashville, TN (the capital of country music). Do you think they even had one token pedal steel guitar? - No! I am not surprised by the lack of sales. The pity is the execs didn't realize they were selling the experience and not the guitar. I sincerely hope they pull out and turn it around. Great video!
Thanks, dudes. This is the closest to hangin' out with regular musicians I've had in years! Grew up in ATL (well, Decatur) and was in a hold-out (Pre-Metalica prominence) heavy rock band in the early 80's. Years since I had heard the name Rhythm City, we called it "Rip'em Silly". And I bought my first "REAL" guitar at Midtown Music, a Kramer Pacer Carrera, solid black/black hardware, ebony fretboard with no dots, and Teflon coated strings - black too. How much more black could it be? None More Black. (We were Tap before there was Tap!) Just down in Savannah now but I miss home and dig hearing you guys talking about all my old stomping grounds and haunts. Rock on...
Thanks Jimmy!
I lived in Atlanta from 88 to 93 when I was a music major at GSU. Rip Em Silly definitely had a reputation, so we never went there. Back in the day, we went to Atlanta Discount Music. Its been decades, but I think it was on Piedmont?
Music-Go-Round! That's where it's at. I miss the old Atlanta Discount Music.
The purple house was sweet, but I really dig the new location.
George Coates lives!
I Love music go round, they’re bringing back that “guitar store” vibe again! With amps and cabs lining the walls and usually at least a few interesting guitars hanging around, its a great place to just hang out and jam.
There are 2 things I like about Music Go Round. First, I can call them and ask for something that I want, and they will call me when they get it. Second, If there is something that they want they call me and ask whether I have it!
I would disagree that Amazon is hurting brick and mortar guitar shops. Their prices for the last year and a half have not been better than what you can get anywhere else and when you add the shipping costs, many time it is more than local shops. I was looking to upgrade my Fishman preamp. Two years ago they had dropped their prices during the Christmas season to about $165. This last year during the Christmas season, the price did not budge from $350 and it is still there.
Big problem with my local GCs is they don't stock much anymore. I get the response, "I can order it online for you." I can do that myself without wasting time going to GC, and usually get a better price. I go to the store to get something right then and there that I need. But they rarely carry anything good in stock, and if they do, half the time it doesn't work.
First I’m gonna say I was ripped off more then once by the “mom and pop” stores when I was young and green in the early 90’s. I have never been ripped off by Guitar Center. That being said I too have seen the demise of G center over the past 10-15 years. Currently as far as inventory, it’s barely above walking through a store that’s clearing out and going out of business. Over the past I’ve seen all the lack of knowledge, simply pushing something that corporate wants them to push etc etc. As far as the future goes, I don’t think the online thing is sustainable in its dominance. I’ve worked for the largest shipper in the US for over 25 years. Since going public we too pay less and expect more. Even during the worst of the recession we still couldn’t keep employees. For the first time in history of the company they had to finally pay new hires more then the CBT mandated. It still has not been enough. Amazon is having the same issues. Eventually it will hit the fan. Labor cost will go up and the need to move thing via freight to retailers in mass will become more cost effective then one item to one house. The box retailers could revitalize or adapt and become hybrids. Some are already doing this to some degree.
Even in the best of the old days I never got as much info in a store as I can get now on TH-cam. I still think in many ways I’m better off now then in the past
I was in one of their stores last week. I asked where the speaker cables were. The sales associate walked me to a wall that was entirely instrument cables. I reminded him that I was looking for speaker cables. His reply? " They're the same thing"..... I walked out.
All you need to do is spend another 2 minutes looking for the cable you need. Sure, maybe that salesperson was not knowledgeable but maybe you expect too much as a customer when all you need is an $8 speaker cable.
Gary Turner not all sales associates are created equal. I’ve been at GC since September and it’s a joy to help people out. Unfortunately the pay is not that great.
The Stuff Mike Does when was the last time you bought a speaker cable? They haven’t been $8 in decades
tannertuner Okay, $15/20/25. Happy?, Regardless, it seems my point went over your head. Dude walked out in a huff when he could have just spent minutes walking the store to find what he needed.
The Stuff Mike Does yes, absolutely. That part of the point is quite valid.
But you still need to double or triple those numbers to get to speaker cable pricing. A decent quality 50’ cable can run you $60 and up.
Which sort of reinforces why a music store salesman should know there’s a difference between a speaker cable and an instrument cable.
Used to work GC pro audio in Chicago. Sad to hear about this, but not at all surprised
This is exactly what happened in my area. We had a great music store ( a rather large one) called New York Music, Guitar Center came in and put them out of business. Now the only music store in town is GC and their inventory is very depleted. All of the pros that worked there left.
I hate buying guitars online because you can't try them out first.
We need a Beato music store!
Remember the days of Rhythm City, Altanta Discount Music (when it was off Clairmont Rd next to PDK), and Galaxy Music - lots of other smaller strip mall mom and pop stores thru Gwinnett and Dekalb... Built up my first attempt at a home recording studio from those places in the mid 90's. Would love to see those days return someday - time will tell...
I still go to my local guitar store. It's run by a working guitarist and he knows the gear. My son was ready for his first real guitar and he called me when one came in that was in my price range. It was a consignment. A prototype Japanese Ibanez. Originally $1400. for $350. He checked it out and put on new strings and tightened up the hardware. He still plays it and has turned out to be a great guitar. Guitar center was never an option.
Regarding customer service knowledge. I feel that it's everywhere (in most places these days) where the sales person knows little about what they are selling. That being said... TH-cam and the internet in general has become an AWESOME place to do research on products on your own beforehand.
PRIME example. .. I was contemplating purchasing a Bach Stradivarius and I kind of had my hear set on a 190S43W2 but after doing some research as to the type of music I wanted to gear towards I decided to order their Commercial trumpet LT190SL1b. I decided this because I researched the Bach website and most importantly I hit up TH-cam and found Kurt Thompson who is a fricken GOD on trumpet and he reviewed trumpets and mouthpieces and he's such a good and GENUINE person. Which, by the way, is why I keep tuning into your channel Rick! You're a good and genuine person and you know your stuff like no one I've ever met.
I think most people are inherently lazy and don't do the research for themselves so if there's poor customer service and there's a slump in a big music genre such as rock then I think those stores are going to go belly up.
Don't know if you've been watching the news lately, but many stations carrying a piece on how many, if not most , Internet reviews are phony or fake reviews. Why? Done solely to sell product. Why do you think on YT and others they want you to use their affiliate links and subscribe and get views to buy a product. Simple: there's money in it. Profit is not a bad word, but a lot of these guys are simply Internet middlemen to separate you and your hard earned dollars. So, how does one separate the wheat from the chaff?
TH-cam is filled with more disinformation than facts.
I worked at GC back in the late 90s where there were only 30 - 40 stores nationwide. Back then, the guys who working in pro audio were guys you would hire to help engineer your record or run your sound at your outdoor festival gig. They knew their stuff. It's sad how far the company has fallen.
On board with everything you guyz said. I've been in a GC store twice in the last three years and it was to buy guitar stands (needed them ASAP). Now I buy everything on line.
Went into the store on Sunset in hollywood in'78 and bought a mxr phase shifter from Randy Rhodes
The relative nature of superficial encounters based on financial transactions has seldom meritted the triangulation required to circumvent the geographical possibilities which inherently solve the crisis bestowed upon the initial encounter.
Bought a vintage Gibson from this same store online this year & the salesman lied to me, leaving me paying top dollar and a luthier bill ta boot! :^(
Whaaaaaat? Is this true Thomas Richmond?
Who's Randy Rhoads? /s
Long story short. Internet came, destroyed bricks and mortar music shops.
Yup. I said basically the same thing in another post. It’s not just GC, I mean do people just not notice the abondoned stores and vacant malls everywhere?
Bad/small selection of used and part exchanged gear instore? That'll be eBay.
I dunno. Brick and mortar stores have always been known for shitty customer service and nothing in stock. And some how non stock items took forever to arrive when you special ordered it.
There are lots of points you bring up about GC not performing as they did/as they should but history shows that big chain stores do not and cannot deal with a downturn in turnover. They flail around before exploding.
I disagree. While electronic components and supporting equipment can be bought online, you'd never ever buy a guitar or any instrument from Ebay or Amazon lol
I worked at Guitar Center for four years and I learned more from cool customers than management.
Management just said sell the extended warranty!
Truest thing I’ve ever heard
Great video guys... Very relatable. Experienced musicians appreciate an involved/attentive music store. I feel I get that service like that from Sweetwater. Not the same as going in to a store, but at least I have someone who knows me, my gear, my abilities, my style, & my interests/needs... and who actually cares.
The San Francisco store suffered the same fate. Their keyboards section was moved way to the back of the store. None of the keyboards were plugged in!
LOL, its so annoying when you want to try out a keyboard, but it's not plugged in & no sales associate is around.
You definitely want to bring your own good headphones, too, and not trust the monitors. Assuming the boards are powered up.
I've not had the problem of unpowered gear in the Sac/Roseville (CA) stores (much), but getting an amp/monitor on a given piece of gear is a lost cause. I suppose the headphones are a better solution to store cacophony, anyway.
All I know is that they ruined Harmony Central years ago. That place was #1 for musicians for years, and they killed it.
I've been pretty happy with Alto Music up here in Hudson Valley NY - they started when I was in grade school, I think - many decades, now.
When I was growing up in the greater NYC suburb of Yonkers N.Y. We hopped on the train for the eighteen minute ride to Grand Central Station, then walked across town to 48th St and ended up at the now legendary Manny's Music. This was the precurser to the Guitar Center formula without the pushy sales people, and the "Do Not touch without salesperson" signs. I got my first electric guitar there in '66, a beautiful fire engine red Framus with a whammy bar!! Will never forget it!! Now days, I only look for stuff in the pawn shops, that's where you will find occasional gems for a low price.
The problem with them going away is that there's no really good alternative any more. Most Mom & Pop shops are gone already; and I absolutely won't buy any guitar before I play it. I bought a Telecaster last year, but only after physically picking up and trying out 15 of them before I found one with the tone I liked. You can't do that online.
And Mom and Pop didn't have 15 Teles either!
I know this is late, but since y'all mentioned Atlanta: Atlanta Vintage is still around. Dan's not, but the vibe is still the same. Only now I'm not shopping for my kids, but my grandkids.. I still can't play guitar worth a flip, but I still get awesome advice and great deals.
Ponce is still around too. They left the city and went north. I go there a lot but the selection is limited because of contracts that only allow them access to certain companies. Not a Gibson in the store and they can't order them. The mom and pop stores just don't have the variety anymore. Great people though
I bought my first guitars and basses in the UK as a starry eyed teenager during the 80s (spent a lot of the time wandering around Denmark Street in London) and despite everything discussed here about fun hang outs and great service, it often wasn't a fun experience for newbie customers. Yes they were hang outs but mainly for the staff who seemed to despise their customers unless they were names or very accomplished. I spent some serious cash then but rarely felt like a valued customer. Love it or hate it, Fender's strategy with Play is on the right track and I'll bet they'll sell product one way or the other. They've realised the volume now comes not from gearheads but beginners (who wouldn't set foot in a guitar shop because they're horribly intimidating). They want to learn in their own time at home, without the patronising High Fidelity experience. PS love the channel and the vibe - if you had a guitar shop near me I'd be there!
I LIVE IN NYC AND I REMEMBER 15 years ago the GC 2 locations were incredible top gear great salesmen etc. now you CANT FIND A SALESMAN ON THE FLOOR!!! just horrible...we have another chain called Sam Ash AMAZING SERVICE GEAR THEY ACTUALLY CARE!
I much prefer buying from Sweetwater.
Thuddy Waters, Sweetwater is the best!
2kosher Amazon is great for most things. I buy pickups and strings from Amazon sometimes, but with Sweetwater you get to see closeup pictures of the actual instruments that you're shopping for.
Thuddy Waters Me too! Their customer service is great!
Yes! Ikes at SW is the man!!!
Sweetwater squad whattup
Not a single pair of monitors at GC Yonkers was functional when I was there. Sam Ash White Plains was superb.
I don't like Sam Ash in general but the White Plains store always had cool stuff.
I'm in Eastchester
I agree !!! Love stopping at the White Plains store when visiting a college buddy of mine
Piddlepond Sam Ash won’t ever die.
Been shopping at Sam Ash White Plains since 1970 - lots of good employees over the years
This is all so true... early 2000s guitar center was truly awesome.... when my friend and I were like fifteen years old we would ride our bikes like 10 miles to guitar center and spend 3 hours there. they drove local business out of most towns for a reason... I just went in today for strings and they literally have nothing....
Just catching this having found your channel. I remember back when I was growing up in Riverdale, there were two or three small music shops around. I took lessons from one over in Forest Park and spent some time in the one in Riverdale proper. There's just not anything like that now. I got into the Kennesaw Guitar Center and while the staff is helpful, there's not a lot of selection--especially as a bass player. I go in there to get a set-up done or when there's something I really want that day (I bought a Fender Rumble amp there a bit ago because I wanted something that day).
But for places like Atlanta Discount, I'm willing to put aside the time to make the drive through Atlanta's hell traffic because I know if I ask a question, I'll get a real answer. Sadly for my next bass I have my eye on, I'm likely going to have to through GC since they're the only BC Rich vendor in the area.
Not one of you mentioned that consumers have less money to spend nowadays , but it's true.
We are living in a era where you do not have to spend 1000s of $ to get decent gear.
Wrong. Consumers now have MORE money in their pocket to spend. Better economy = more disposable income.
I’ve seen more activity in a morgue compared to my last few trips to GC
To be fair, morgues are booming right now. But heres to hoping for GCs funeral. They killed the mom and pops. The fuckin walmart of guitar shops.
😂
When I was working as a sound guy in the 90s, the guitar guy at our local music store was Richard Fortus. Ancora Music in Afton, MO.
Thank you Rick and your friends. Very interesting history lesson. I think your point about competition from internet sellers and their pricing strategies have forced big box music retailers to, out of desperation, try to cut cost to offset sales decline. To complicate things, popular brand product lines have gotten so extensive it confuses most potential consumers and even sales people. I'm not smart enough to know the answer(s), but I think most feel internet sales along with Amazon like delivery will continue to change retail as we once knew it. I look forward to more of your videos!
I'm just happy that Wildwood Guitars is my local shop. Between that and Sweetwater I get service and selection.
zbqb84a, Greg Koch!!!!
zbqb84a I've bought from both...SG from Wildwood, Marshall Origin 20 head and Green Rhino from Sweetwater. Outstanding customer service.
Used to live near Wildwood, great shop, although it was always way out of my price range.
Ok, I have to chime in on something. I'm 49 and have been playing guitar since age 15. Watching this video and the other on on Gibson, it reminds me of when I was in my 20s working with my Dad and his friends. They would complain about politics and how good the world used to be. It came off as a bunch of old guys who had lived life and just wanted to complain about everything negative, never looking at the positives. They were just searching for things to complain about. I sort of get the same idea when I watch this video along with the Gibson one. Why not just tell everyone to quit playing guitar if things look so bad?
Truth is, guitar playing is not dead and there are plenty of younger people playing. No it's not like it used to be and the entire music business is trying to figure things out. I don't know what will happen with Guitar Center and yes I have seen the quality of people working there go down.
I'm not saying there aren't problems. But, I'm not so sure things are quite as dark as so many people are making it out to be.
i think thats a stretch. this is solely about guitar center. not 'guitar playing". im guessing these guys would be happy if GC shut down. theyre just stating facts. i dont see the doom and gloom, besides a frustration that u cant find a good music store these days.
I think Jeff is referring more to many of the comments than the video itself.
It's funny. I was at an open mic last Friday night, and some kid maybe 10 or 12 was playing guitar. His first song was some Imagine Dragons song that I forgot the name of (I thought they were more of a "synth" group???). His second was Iron Man. Interesting mix.
That said, I'm 53. I like to play with electronic music, and I get tired of hearing the same music over and over and over. I want a mix.
Don't worry Jeff, some day you will become your " father."
Jeff Green it’s called Rosy Retrospection. Seeing the past as better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future as darker than it will be. It has always been this way. Even Plato and Aristotle fell victim to this.
With that being said, they’re not totally wrong about Guitar Center as a company, but they are off about the employees. Specifically the ones at the specific store in which they said there aren’t any pros at anymore. They’re younger pros now, and I think they’re just dismissing them based on their age. Which is a shame.
bufferkiller there was sucky music in the 70s and 80s too 🤩
We just don’t have to hear it anymore
I got my first migraine headache at guitar center in St Louis about 30 seconds after I walked in....
This is a great analysis of GC and its failings. Thank you, Rick for this opportunity and a great channel. I love guitar and playing music, but most people I work with do not, so it's great to get perspectives from experienced musicians/producers. I've often thought about GC's decision to have unskilled labor/clerks without a viable mentoring/training program. Also, I've heard a lot about the low wages they paid. If that's true, it explains why they had high turn over and are bankrupt now. I can't wait to see what takes its place.
Gibson Brand Inc. is the parent company that owns Gibson USA, Gibson Memphis, Tascam and at least ten other companies. The parent company is the one going bankrupt that effects all the rest of the companies. They are all in trouble.
They drove some mom and pops out of business anyway, so I really can't feel for them. Hoping Brad the Guitologist sees this video.
Brad is a Superstar
Which ones?
exactly
and because it's a corporation they cared more about hiring sales-people and pushing products rather than hiring musicians and pushing musical knowledge and sharing.
the same happened with movies, and blockbuster and now everyone watches Netflix, which doesn't even carry some of the greatest films ever made (and I'm glad to see Netflix put out new and creative projects that would otherwise never see the light of day, but that doesn't mean it's not detrimental to lose the classics and work of the masters as well).
Netflix is so convenient that the cultural memory of actually seeking out classics and great films and talking to the movie-store buff, has been overrun by just turning on your TV and flicking through Netflix's limited offerings
guitar center (and the equivalent in MANY other industries) has essentially done the same thing. we've lost "the communication of musical licks, styles and methods" in favor of "the communication of deals, discounts, specs, and features."
that's why everyone on the internet is arguing over specs and fanboyism, versus just making the freaking art.
look no further than "Photography" here online to find people more knowledgeable about specs, megapixels, and prices, rather than great photographers, techniques, and painters (and other visual precursors to 2D image-making.)
internet = no good
art = good
An inevitable correction insofar as the perpetual growth model is unsustainable. Not every man, woman and child on the planet needs to be a guitar player.
I find this argument questionable. The internet has connected people to things that have been hidden, as well as making it easy for people to find things that came long before their time. The internet has also made it greatly convenient to find classics in various fields. Obsession with specs and fanboyism is something that, before the internet, was commonly practised amongst people who got deeply into tools or instruments. The internet offers a way that these debates can be seen more widely and easily. The internet offers those who are passionate about photography the ability to learn the at for free. From which I'm sure many talented photograpjers out there have gotten ideas or learned
You are exaggerating the extent of it to make a point that lacks significant validity when you consider that Guitar Center or large chain stores offer benefits in their own right. Which is why people venture over to them, other than convenience. I remember when Blockbuster was popular. a lot of the employees weren't very knowledgeable about films. I grew up going to the Hollywood movie rental store, the same thing. They were just there to ring up the orders, keep the place, stocked, and open it/close it. When Netflix rose up, people switched not only for convenience but also because it's affordable. I have found movies on Netflix that I hadn't seen since I was a child. I don't care to watch every film that is considered to be a classic. Nor do I expect future generations to like or watch every film I think is a classic. This appears to be the mindset of people from previous generations, that the youth needs to know all of or most of those things. I believe some of the things are important, for the purpose of history and basics, other than that let them enjoy the films that are relevant to their time. A lot of the things that influenced me growing up were films, music, and fashion that was popular at that time.
I'm sure every field has had its hobbyists or people who care more about the tools than the art. There are people who are buying vintage guitars as a part of a collection. They don't play the instrument, they just collect them. To many people, this doesn't make much sense, but this is has been the case for years. Why should I feel threatened by it? Art doesn't need everyone who shows interest in its instruments to be devoted to artistic expression. Let the artists create the art, let the gearheads debate the specs.
As Fusion 58 says, everyone or most people don't need to be artists. So, I see no need to be fearful as if art is in any kind of danger. The GC, I've been going to for years, has a lot of musicians working there. Whenever I have a question, they give me advice based on their own experience. The guitar tech there is my favourite and I won't take my guitar anywhere but to him.
Internet = Amazing vehicle for art and artistic instruction
Art = Heavenly way of expression that can be adapted to various mediums, including the internet.
Thanks again Rick! Always interesting and informative.
Right on about Midtown music. Coolest music store ever! I drove from Montgomery just to hang out. I still have 2 vintage Teles I bought there. What a shame that there aren't still places like that.
Not surprised. I still have my grand opening tee shirt from the I85 store, and never liked the store. Not customer-focused. I still miss Mars Music. The took care of me and I left lots of $$ with them.
I shop Music Go Round in DULUTH, GA for used gear- both buy and sell. Ann and her crew always take care of me.
Sweetwater is decent for on-line purchases. Bought my X32 gear from them.
Earl Griffith -Barkhill Sound :Gwinnett Co., and now in Chattanooga, TN.
You guys are SO right about the loss of the SOCIAL aspect of the local guitar shop, that it's depressing. That was the best aspect, IMO, of the guitar shops I grew up in. Guess I'm a dinosaur from a by-gone era, but that's what I miss most. Good riddance, GC.
Good job of accurately describing how GC used to be run...I worked there in mid management for 5 years & you nailed the employee part...All the knowledgable talent was slowly pushed & or priced out...
Love listening to your channel. Mostly because I'm born and raised in Atlanta. I think you'r a year older than me. I even figured out where you live from this video (within 2 miles). As a teen I'd ride my bike out to THE MOUNTAIN. This was nostalgic. I remember my old Music Store that I hung out at as a teen. Even as a boy I thought of the founder and owner as a great friend. in the 80's he actually dismantled his building in Decatur and moved it north. The last deal I did with him was in 1985. I was moving from Florida and coming through town and found his "In Between" location. I spent an afternoon with him ruminating the years in his 2 Decatur locations. Later in 1997 I moved back and visited him in his "new" location and spent another afternoon with my old friend. His daughter (successor) wasn't coming in until later. The weird part was, as much as I enjoyed her Dad, if I'd met her (I think she was several years older) I don't remember. The good thing is they are in a small Georgia town and are still in business, now that he's gone. If I lived closer, I'd probably be "Hanging Out" even today.