Excellent to know the dyneema and soft loops are so strong. Most of the loads on the boats I race on would be perpendicular to the mounting, and not parallel. I wonder if pulling it sideways like that, where it is bending at 90 degrees to a sharp edge, reduced the strength in some way. For example any halyards going into a turning block would be coming mostly straight down and the pull would be up, not sideways.
That was my thought exactly. I want to see those soft padeyes mounted in a cored fiberglass material and subject to perpendicular pull. Then I wonder if the deck will fail before the dyneema.
@@duncanthomson5564 at the end of the vid he said the loops are stronger then the actual boat, so if this is worst cast scenario then I’d imagine that a straight pull would probably pull right through the deck of a boat
I was wondering about the sharp edge at the top of the deck hole myself. I know from experience that a hole drilled through fiberglass can be razor sharp if not deburred. Would be very interesting to see what happens when the hole edge is relieved (countersunk slightly). And also different angles of pull.
Really cool to see the crossover topics. Working in tree work and marine repair the rope and rigging share so many details. Always a fan of break testing to see what gives. Thank for all the hard work
I love the sailing series! I have never done any climbing (besides trees as a kid) but I have done a little sailing... Enough to know I enjoy it, but not enough to have the slightest idea what I'm doing.
How did I not find this until a year after it was posted? Terrific videos. Valuable conclusion. Even when I'm confident in the gear and ropes on a boat I position myself in case they fail.
Add a gentle dab of grease on the sear (there should be a slight angle that prevents it from unlocking under any load) and set the rope as close to the disconnection point as sailorly possible to get some leverage in the right direction, as pulling on the other side can and will multiply the force needed by only 5 times.
In sailing we actual call chafing when line or sail material is rubbing on something and "chafing". Definately not just for rope on rope. In fact it's almost never rope on rope chafe in boating. Usually rope on metal/wood/fiberglass.
This is Great stuff, I am a double leg amputee from Vietnam. I am curious about the strength of the carbon fiber feet. Are the feet as strong in cold weather below zero, as they are in warm weather? What did they break when 180 pounds drops on them from 4 feet high? These issues and others I’m curious about
At the temperatures humans exist, say -40 to +40°C, carbon fiber really doesn't care. The mechanical performance that you're concerned about is effectively identical. As far as the drop, that really depends on the manufacturer the CF feet I've seen are incredibly strong. My ankles are going to break way before a CF foot fails.
I have a hunch that a few drops of oil on the snap mechanism of the shackle would have made a big difference in the releasing effort. Silicon oil should resist sea water while doing no harm on the dyneema. What do the dyneema experts think?
I feel like the padeye test was a bit of a bust... The pull was lateral, and they all broke where they entered the "boat deck" piece of G10; where the bend radius is extreme (near 90 degrees). In actual use, the stress loading would be near vertical; perpendicular to the pad & deck material. Thoughts ?
In the previous continuous loop episode and in this one on the small bonded loop there is that issue of it breaking far lower than expected due to many assumptions. Of interest is the pinching effect of rope on rope in that case the soft shackle on the loop that inserts a compressive force besides the tensile. It would be interesting to see how much this affects rope loop to rope loop connections as compared to rope loop to rigid biner with same radius and rope loop. I believe it was not friction that prematurely killed that on site made loop last time.
I’ve been told that for equipment to get a “climbing” or “life safety” rating, it must go through very extensive testing. Boating hardware is not subjected to any “life safety” testing. Companies follow a less stringent “break testing” protocol to establish a rating. Good lesson for those who use this type of boat hardware and rope for climbing masts. While much better than hardware store equipment, boating hardware is not intended to support a “life” load. That can only be found on climbing equipment. Do you information to confirm or deny that? Thanks guys, really good stuff !
Very little is "rated" on a sailboat, these soft eyes are definitely not. However many things are "super good enough". Many larger boats have ropes and fittings rated for 5k to 10k working loads. One of the biggest things when you go up a mast is not shock loading the system. All modern race boats have dyneema everything so shock loading is very bad.
@@davidliebenberg7798 I absolutely agree….I’ve even used that equipment myself to go aloft. As a follower of “super good enough” I know I was well within the working load. However, I know double braided “yacht” rope is not life rated and neither is the Lewmar winch used to haul me up on masthead sheaves that also are not…but it works
Yea I think that because the normal working loads on sailing rigging is so far above - it's never been an issue. It's like asking if a forklift is rated to lift a person... its not specifically rated, but if it works at all, it can.
Is there any reason to use Dyneema as a chafing cover, if the cover is not going to see any load anyway? It doesnt need to float either, since it's fixed to the boat. Is Dyneema just also the best for abrasion or is it just good enough and easy to get/already on hand?
Multiple reasons come to mind. It is very slippery meaning it equalizes fast and better than anything else. It is hard to cut and abrade. If the core is damaged it will still hold some weight. It requires the same bonding agent as the core so you do not have improper bonding to the core or the sheath. And it is the cool new stuff to brag about.
Could someone comment on how, when making soft loops by epoxying the Dynema strands between two disks, the Dyneema actually stayed in place. What I'm trying to understand is why the Dyneema didn't just slipped out of the disk, given how slippery it is and knowing that the epoxy doesn't really adhere to polyethylene.
I put a pair of soft padeyes on my trimaran back in 1980 made from 3/4" 3 strand made into an eyesplice over a thimble that then splayed out and was epoxyed under the deck and to a bulkhead held turning blocks for a 600 '² genoa that I tended to leave up long after a sane person would have taken it down.Padeye weiged a fraction of the metal parts it replaced and cost next to nothing. Unlike your manufactured eye all the strands where inline with the load and gently preloaded while the epoxy was curing. Never saw any indication of stress.
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As a sailor who climbs, I love these crossover videos!
Sameee
Excellent to know the dyneema and soft loops are so strong. Most of the loads on the boats I race on would be perpendicular to the mounting, and not parallel. I wonder if pulling it sideways like that, where it is bending at 90 degrees to a sharp edge, reduced the strength in some way. For example any halyards going into a turning block would be coming mostly straight down and the pull would be up, not sideways.
It almost certainly did. If Dyneema had a nemesis, it would be small bending radii. It's incredible it was so strong, even loaded like that
That was my thought exactly. I want to see those soft padeyes mounted in a cored fiberglass material and subject to perpendicular pull. Then I wonder if the deck will fail before the dyneema.
@@duncanthomson5564 at the end of the vid he said the loops are stronger then the actual boat, so if this is worst cast scenario then I’d imagine that a straight pull would probably pull right through the deck of a boat
Had exactly that thought! Would love to see another test where it's pulled straight instead of sideways. Would it still break right at the base?
I was wondering about the sharp edge at the top of the deck hole myself. I know from experience that a hole drilled through fiberglass can be razor sharp if not deburred. Would be very interesting to see what happens when the hole edge is relieved (countersunk slightly). And also different angles of pull.
This video is killer! The gear fear when sailing is super real. Glad to know this stuff is super good enough! Keep up the great work!
Really cool to see the crossover topics. Working in tree work and marine repair the rope and rigging share so many details. Always a fan of break testing to see what gives. Thank for all the hard work
12:49 buddy in there red is right, a boat is a whole different world
I love the sailing series! I have never done any climbing (besides trees as a kid) but I have done a little sailing... Enough to know I enjoy it, but not enough to have the slightest idea what I'm doing.
How did I not find this until a year after it was posted? Terrific videos. Valuable conclusion. Even when I'm confident in the gear and ropes on a boat I position myself in case they fail.
Love the new variety, thanks Ryan!
As a sailor this shit is so dope. I've spiked those shackles so many times
Add a gentle dab of grease on the sear (there should be a slight angle that prevents it from unlocking under any load) and set the rope as close to the disconnection point as sailorly possible to get some leverage in the right direction, as pulling on the other side can and will multiply the force needed by only 5 times.
Would be cool to test some wire rope swages that they use on boats would be super informative!
Great content, learning a lot
Thanks so much for the snap shackle test! Very helpful information and was going to message you about testing one! Drop tower test one in the future?!
I am really really enjoying the sailboat testing!
I love what you do bro. I can’t wait for the drop tower. Hope it is everything you dreamed it would be. But I expect some shenanigans too. Be safe
In sailing we actual call chafing when line or sail material is rubbing on something and "chafing". Definately not just for rope on rope. In fact it's almost never rope on rope chafe in boating. Usually rope on metal/wood/fiberglass.
Outstanding content. Happy Thanksgiving. Cheers
Nice work! These videos have been fun, even though I don't sail much.
Yes!!!
This is Great stuff, I am a double leg amputee from Vietnam. I am curious about the strength of the carbon fiber feet. Are the feet as strong in cold weather below zero, as they are in warm weather? What did they break when 180 pounds drops on them from 4 feet high? These issues and others I’m curious about
At the temperatures humans exist, say -40 to +40°C, carbon fiber really doesn't care. The mechanical performance that you're concerned about is effectively identical.
As far as the drop, that really depends on the manufacturer the CF feet I've seen are incredibly strong. My ankles are going to break way before a CF foot fails.
I have a hunch that a few drops of oil on the snap mechanism of the shackle would have made a big difference in the releasing effort. Silicon oil should resist sea water while doing no harm on the dyneema. What do the dyneema experts think?
Weren’t you tempted to try a diamond knot for the deck loop Rather than that silly plastic disc?
I feel like the padeye test was a bit of a bust... The pull was lateral, and they all broke where they entered the "boat deck" piece of G10; where the bend radius is extreme (near 90 degrees).
In actual use, the stress loading would be near vertical; perpendicular to the pad & deck material.
Thoughts ?
please test more sailing hardware, gear, line and knots. Jim Rodgers
In the previous continuous loop episode and in this one on the small bonded loop there is that issue of it breaking far lower than expected due to many assumptions. Of interest is the pinching effect of rope on rope in that case the soft shackle on the loop that inserts a compressive force besides the tensile. It would be interesting to see how much this affects rope loop to rope loop connections as compared to rope loop to rigid biner with same radius and rope loop. I believe it was not friction that prematurely killed that on site made loop last time.
Why are the chaffe covers made of dynema and not aramid/kevlar?
totally binge watching lol
Is there a difference if you splice the line to create a loop or use a larks head instead?
Have you, by any chance tested this?
Could You brake a 3/8 steel chain?
Do you know what kind of epoxy was used?
Is it ever bad to be stronger than expected?
I’ve been told that for equipment to get a “climbing” or “life safety” rating, it must go through very extensive testing. Boating hardware is not subjected to any “life safety” testing. Companies follow a less stringent “break testing” protocol to establish a rating. Good lesson for those who use this type of boat hardware and rope for climbing masts. While much better than hardware store equipment, boating hardware is not intended to support a “life” load. That can only be found on climbing equipment. Do you information to confirm or deny that? Thanks guys, really good stuff !
Very little is "rated" on a sailboat, these soft eyes are definitely not. However many things are "super good enough". Many larger boats have ropes and fittings rated for 5k to 10k working loads. One of the biggest things when you go up a mast is not shock loading the system. All modern race boats have dyneema everything so shock loading is very bad.
@@davidliebenberg7798 I absolutely agree….I’ve even used that equipment myself to go aloft. As a follower of “super good enough” I know I was well within the working load. However, I know double braided “yacht” rope is not life rated and neither is the Lewmar winch used to haul me up on masthead sheaves that also are not…but it works
@@davidliebenberg7798 If shock loading is such a problem was it ever considered to use shock dampers for more vital rigging ropes?
I think you are referring to UIAA CE standards. Not sure there’s anything comparable for sailing.
Yea I think that because the normal working loads on sailing rigging is so far above - it's never been an issue.
It's like asking if a forklift is rated to lift a person... its not specifically rated, but if it works at all, it can.
Bindge watching and decided to not follow your advice and be annoying. Keep up the good and entertaining work.
Aww man, sad the sailing playlist idea didn't pan out.
Is there any reason to use Dyneema as a chafing cover, if the cover is not going to see any load anyway? It doesnt need to float either, since it's fixed to the boat.
Is Dyneema just also the best for abrasion or is it just good enough and easy to get/already on hand?
Dyneema is more abrasion resistant than pretty much any other textile.
Multiple reasons come to mind. It is very slippery meaning it equalizes fast and better than anything else. It is hard to cut and abrade. If the core is damaged it will still hold some weight. It requires the same bonding agent as the core so you do not have improper bonding to the core or the sheath. And it is the cool new stuff to brag about.
Could someone comment on how, when making soft loops by epoxying the Dynema strands between two disks, the Dyneema actually stayed in place. What I'm trying to understand is why the Dyneema didn't just slipped out of the disk, given how slippery it is and knowing that the epoxy doesn't really adhere to polyethylene.
Test Ice Gear!!
look where your string is on the trigger
I put a pair of soft padeyes on my trimaran back in 1980 made from 3/4" 3 strand made into an eyesplice over a thimble that then splayed out and was epoxyed under the deck and to a bulkhead held turning blocks for a 600 '² genoa that I tended to leave up long after a sane person would have taken it down.Padeye weiged a fraction of the metal parts it replaced and cost next to nothing. Unlike your manufactured eye all the strands where inline with the load and gently preloaded while the epoxy was curing. Never saw any indication of stress.
!!
Go sailing with a linescale
No 3-to-1? No soft shackles? Who are you?!
See previous video on soft shackles. And who are you?
@@duncanthomson5564 I am the law!!