Mike’s explanation of why 4wd on a downhill with the bucket loaded wouldn’t have the back wheels spinning. Less control and braking would be available due to weight distribution which suggests the use of the front wheels. I guess we have to consider a lot of things as we work on our tractors.
Even on tractors that are equipped with the same diameter tires front and rear, the gear ration in the front drive axle is a bit lower (numerical ratio) than the rear axle so that the front of the tractor pulls you ahead. This prevents the rear of the tractor pushing the steering wheels, especially when cornering.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but I like to stay in 4x4 on a side hill so that it helps pull me up the hill. Last thing I want to do is spin out and lose control going up or down on a hill.
I agree, using 4wd and your uphill side brake,you can safely traverse fairly steep hillsides crabwise, last thing you need is to lose traction and the nose of your tractor to get pointed downhill.
If the front tyres wear faster than the rear, the front wheels will want to do more revs, which is fine in 2wd, but in MFWD the wheel rpm is tied to the front axle ratio, so worn front tyres may start to get pushed by the back end instead of pulling the back end.
Recommend when you have a heavy load on the front to back down the hill and drive forward up the hill. Lighter tractors are powerful enough to lift loads that get you in trouble when not thinking.
I have a Kubota MX 5800 that I guess I ran too often in 4wd. Left front hub disintegrated and the dealer quoted $5000 for repair. Some parts were unavailable so suddenly previously bad parts were ok to reuse. Hmmmm. Final cost was about $3k for the rebuild with me doing the removal, tear down and reinstall. Several other owners of the same model also had failures so it’s not just a fluke! Since I did the reinstall the dealer wouldn’t warranty their work. Now I only use 4wd when absolutely necessary. BTW- as front tires wear, they are smaller so cover less ground per revolution. This redeuces (not increases) the beneficial effect of having the front tires “pull” the back tires.
I'm no expert, However. I would recommend to find out the front axle leed on your particular tractor model and if the rear axle is slipping by half that percentage engage front wheel assist. When using the front end loader always use a counter weight on the rear linkage. Never travel down grade with the load ahead of the tractor. The leed of the front axle can be fine tuned by adjusting air pressure in the tires. Front axle leed would usually be around 2% to 8% .
Long time offroader, living in mid Missouri in a place that's extremely hilly, being in 4x4 is mandatory for safety reasons as you experienced ( I too took a hell ride down a 50 foot very steep grade) because I forgot to engage and I have no idiot light on the dash also the 4x4 change lever in right underneath my leg, can't see it , I have no hard surfaces and my front road is lose gravel. heck I can't even drive my tractor into my barn because of the 6" lip without being in 4x4. with these surface conditions torx windup is of little concern. and the yard was a cow pasture before the house was placed here three years ago. as for the transversing a hill in 4x4 that's a must, your rear wheels are more likely to spin out, being in 4x4 will pull your frout end applying traction equally to all four. It's a good question and if one is running around on level ground it's not going to hurt being in 2x4, being on steep ground it's safer to be in 4x4, tire wear becomes a non issue. A good way to tell if your ground(surface) is to hard is turn your wheels full lock and if the front wheels jerk get out of 4x4, like on pavement.
If you are out in a field, dirt, mud, sand, etc. all the time and never on pavement or running on concrete then leaving it in 4WD isn't going to hurt anything....but anytime you are running the tractor around on pavement or on concrete take it out of 4WD, you can bind up the drive train if you have to make sharp turns on paved surfaces and you are in 4WD, works just like the part time 4WD system found in most pickups....leave it in 2WD unless you need extra traction if you aren't sure start off in 2WD and if you are spinning the rear tires then you need 4WD.... I have a small tractor, and the only time I really find myself needing the 4WD is when I'm doing loader work and need the extra traction to get into material piles without sitting and spinning the wheels LOL. I mow my yard occasionally with the tractor, and have never found the need to use 4WD for mowing, if you do, you probably shouldn't be mowing there and need to re-think your landscaping ideas.
When constantly driving a tractor on slopes, as my farm is, I’ll keep the front wheels engaged. If I was driving on level hard ground I’d turn off the 4wd. I’m prepared to pay money for the safety four wheel drive provides.
The top 18-24 inches of soil on my place is roughly 50% sand. Everything digs and gets stuck. Self propelled push mower, zero turns and regular riders. My tractor will always be in MFWD out here. Even then, there's a chance of sinking her
I had problems remembering to take my 1025R out of 4wd. I solved that by adding a light on the dash and a switch activated by the lever. One of the best things i have done.
I’m in line with both you, and some of the comments. If you see your rear wheels slipping and spinning, My thought, it is probably less wear and tear on your tractor to engage all four wheels than have your rear differential repeatedly slipping and gripping.
Good video young man!! Well i don't use my 4x4 unless i need it. But just bought a new kioti ck3520se shuttle shift don't have tires loaded yet but mowinn the ditches in my neighbourhood i had to lock it in cause my upper back tire was spinnin a little. Hopefully i can find the Bio Ballast that you talked about on another video Mike. Thanks for sharing be safe have fun.
I have no flat spots and no pavement on out property. Im always in 4wd. Ive found it particularly helpful when turning up a slope. 4wd helps the front tyres grab, especially if the soil is soft rather than slide sideways. Id rather replace tyres rather than slip around. If on pavement removing 4wd makes sense.
When using the loader on these small tractors, using 4x4 is a must. For just bushhogging on fairly level ground, I'd leave it in 4x2, really not reason to have it in 4x4 unless you have steep hills or the ground is really soft.
I plow snow with a tractor commercially. Unless the pavement is dry I'm in 4 wheel drive. It is scary when you hit a snow or ice patch and apply the brake. I'd rather sacrifice the front tires to have even steady braking. .
Your videos are always informative. I don't keep my JD 3032 in 4WD all the time, mainly because my acreages are pretty flat and mainly only use it when in snowy weather. I have fluid in my rear tires which adds a lot of weight to the back end and helps when I am moving stuff with my loader bucket or forks. Without the weight, the rear end will come off the ground and I don't want the extra expense of wheel weights. If I spin with the back tires, I push in the brake peddle halfway. This engages positive rear wheel traction. Do you think it's wrong to have fluid in the rear tires for weight?
Hey Mike I don’t know if you got a video on ratchet binders but I’ve got a 25 hp Branson tractor what size binder you think I need for hauling my tractor? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
I thought my X738 was full time 4x4. Outside front tire is driven faster than inside front tire or vice versa. My 2025R will definitely tear up the yard if left in 4x4.
Great info! If the brakes are applied in front wheel assist, does the drivetrain “brake” the front tires too? (I did see the tractor on a hill with the “log” on the forks). Just want to clarify. Thanks
If going downhill and you feel the tractor lift the rear wheels... lower the front loader SLOWLY to drag the load and regain rear wheel traction. Too suddenly can spin and roll the tractor.
@vbelbel490 On page 48 and 49 on the Kubota Grand L Manual, it addresses the subject. It specifically warns against having the 4WD engaged on paved roads as it will wear out the front tires quickly. It goes on from there in listing when 4WD is effective for certain jobs.
Maybe I'm missing something, but don't the tires wear regardless? I mean, the point seems to be the front tires are smaller than the back so they rotate more. The increase in rotation wears the front times more than the back - is that right? If so, the tires rotate whether they are in 4WD or 2WD. If I'm understanding all that correctly, I don't see that it makes any difference (2 vs 4) if it's the rotation that causes the wear on the tires. What am I missing??
Most 4 wheel drive actuall turn the front tires, when engaged a little faster and there is some slippage IF on a paved surface will wear the tires, but used in dirt, mud grass, it ain't going to happen !! !
@@wilburfinnigan2142 thank you. So what he's/you are saying is that in 4WD the front tires turn faster than they would in 2WD, thus increasing the revolutions over just being pushed by the rear tires when in 2WD. Hence the increased wear when in 4WD. Is that correct?
May I suggest. It's not all wheel assists. It’s 4x4. I use it based on the pucker factor. Be glad we can all say holy shit Batman! I know tractors have big wheels on the rear back and combines on the front. Please explain why they place fluid/water in the rear wheels of tractors. Just saying. Great channel….
Unfortunately and newer tractor with a loader will have to be ran in 4wd most of the time. Way to light on the rear. If the ground is flat 2wd could be used more often.
Never be on a side hill without having checked and ensuring proper air pressure in the tires. 4wd should not cause any negative impact on side hills on dirt or grass.
I have repaired John Deere and Kubota front axle components - all caused by being left unnecessarily engaged- teeth broken on right angle gears with contingent damage some repeat offenders. Kubota seem the weakest and most expensive. Use good judgment.
Buying new front tires is……. A SUPER SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR SAFETY!!! Most folks that own these small tractors do not have any experience operating machines and as such won’t/can’t think fast enough to keep themselves out of bad situations that not being all wheel drive can promote!!! If you are a ROOKIE….. leave it in 4 wheel drive always. New front tires are much cheaper than a hospital stay or a funeral……….
4WD is just like antibiotics or acetaminophen, it's a really bad plan to use them if you don't NEED them, if you don't use it then get stuck, you engage the magic handle and poof your out, if you get stuck in 4WD you're screwed, and the only way to get better traction is to engage the other magic differential lock, then finally push yourself out a bucket pivot length at a time. Do yourself a favor and only use it as needed.
Naw I had a small Kubota with a front loader I used around the barn, pasture arena in the mud I never took it out of 4 wheel drive, it would get stuck, and there was no pavement around, used it for about 20 years never wore out tires or had an mechanical issues, and I kept it greased, replaced it with a 25 HP Ne Holland with 4 wheel drive and used it also for many years in 4 wheel drive and never a problem also kept it greased, Also i am surprised you are not aware of your going down hill and not having brakes......you have an emergency brake...just drop the front loader with the load and you will stop !!!! DUUUUHHHHH!!!!!
The short of it. If your back tires start to spin,,,,,put it in 4wd. If not always leave it in 2wd.
This! Pefect summary!
Mike’s explanation of why 4wd on a downhill with the bucket loaded wouldn’t have the back wheels spinning. Less control and braking would be available due to weight distribution which suggests the use of the front wheels. I guess we have to consider a lot of things as we work on our tractors.
You can feel the resistance on any 4 wheel drive vehicle on dry ground in 4 wheel vs 2 wheel.
Even on tractors that are equipped with the same diameter tires front and rear, the gear ration in the front drive axle is a bit lower (numerical ratio) than the rear axle so that the front of the tractor pulls you ahead. This prevents the rear of the tractor pushing the steering wheels, especially when cornering.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but I like to stay in 4x4 on a side hill so that it helps pull me up the hill. Last thing I want to do is spin out and lose control going up or down on a hill.
I agree, using 4wd and your uphill side brake,you can safely traverse fairly steep hillsides crabwise, last thing you need is to lose traction and the nose of your tractor to get pointed downhill.
If the front tyres wear faster than the rear, the front wheels will want to do more revs, which is fine in 2wd, but in MFWD the wheel rpm is tied to the front axle ratio, so worn front tyres may start to get pushed by the back end instead of pulling the back end.
I'm new to tractors but I never use the 4wd unless I need to I just don't see the use for the wear and tare if not needed.
Recommend when you have a heavy load on the front to back down the hill and drive forward up the hill. Lighter tractors are powerful enough to lift loads that get you in trouble when not thinking.
I have a Kubota MX 5800 that I guess I ran too often in 4wd. Left front hub disintegrated and the dealer quoted $5000 for repair. Some parts were unavailable so suddenly previously bad parts were ok to reuse. Hmmmm. Final cost was about $3k for the rebuild with me doing the removal, tear down and reinstall. Several other owners of the same model also had failures so it’s not just a fluke! Since I did the reinstall the dealer wouldn’t warranty their work. Now I only use 4wd when absolutely necessary.
BTW- as front tires wear, they are smaller so cover less ground per revolution. This redeuces (not increases) the beneficial effect of having the front tires “pull” the back tires.
I'm no expert, However. I would recommend to find out the front axle leed on your particular tractor model and if the rear axle is slipping by half that percentage engage front wheel assist. When using the front end loader always use a counter weight on the rear linkage. Never travel down grade with the load ahead of the tractor.
The leed of the front axle can be fine tuned by adjusting air pressure in the tires.
Front axle leed would usually be around 2% to 8% .
Long time offroader, living in mid Missouri in a place that's extremely hilly, being in 4x4 is mandatory for safety reasons as you experienced ( I too took a hell ride down a 50 foot very steep grade) because I forgot to engage and I have no idiot light on the dash also the 4x4 change lever in right underneath my leg, can't see it , I have no hard surfaces and my front road is lose gravel. heck I can't even drive my tractor into my barn because of the 6" lip without being in 4x4. with these surface conditions torx windup is of little concern. and the yard was a cow pasture before the house was placed here three years ago. as for the transversing a hill in 4x4 that's a must, your rear wheels are more likely to spin out, being in 4x4 will pull your frout end applying traction equally to all four. It's a good question and if one is running around on level ground it's not going to hurt being in 2x4, being on steep ground it's safer to be in 4x4, tire wear becomes a non issue. A good way to tell if your ground(surface) is to hard is turn your wheels full lock and if the front wheels jerk get out of 4x4, like on pavement.
If you are out in a field, dirt, mud, sand, etc. all the time and never on pavement or running on concrete then leaving it in 4WD isn't going to hurt anything....but anytime you are running the tractor around on pavement or on concrete take it out of 4WD, you can bind up the drive train if you have to make sharp turns on paved surfaces and you are in 4WD, works just like the part time 4WD system found in most pickups....leave it in 2WD unless you need extra traction if you aren't sure start off in 2WD and if you are spinning the rear tires then you need 4WD....
I have a small tractor, and the only time I really find myself needing the 4WD is when I'm doing loader work and need the extra traction to get into material piles without sitting and spinning the wheels LOL. I mow my yard occasionally with the tractor, and have never found the need to use 4WD for mowing, if you do, you probably shouldn't be mowing there and need to re-think your landscaping ideas.
Thanks, I learned I have been doing it wrong. Changed my ways today cutting pasture
When constantly driving a tractor on slopes, as my farm is, I’ll keep the front wheels engaged. If I was driving on level hard ground I’d turn off the 4wd.
I’m prepared to pay money for the safety four wheel drive provides.
The top 18-24 inches of soil on my place is roughly 50% sand. Everything digs and gets stuck. Self propelled push mower, zero turns and regular riders. My tractor will always be in MFWD out here. Even then, there's a chance of sinking her
I had problems remembering to take my 1025R out of 4wd. I solved that by adding a light on the dash and a switch activated by the lever. One of the best things i have done.
I’m in line with both you, and some of the comments. If you see your rear wheels slipping and spinning, My thought, it is probably less wear and tear on your tractor to engage all four wheels than have your rear differential repeatedly slipping and gripping.
Love your wisdom Mike!! Thanks.
When discussing the synsatrac please also include kubota's bi speed turn system as well. Thanks!
Thanks Mike from James!!!
Good one Mike thanks for the refresher
Good video young man!! Well i don't use my 4x4 unless i need it. But just bought a new kioti ck3520se shuttle shift don't have tires loaded yet but mowinn the ditches in my neighbourhood i had to lock it in cause my upper back tire was spinnin a little. Hopefully i can find the Bio Ballast that you talked about on another video Mike. Thanks for sharing be safe have fun.
Great job and information Mike!
I have no flat spots and no pavement on out property. Im always in 4wd. Ive found it particularly helpful when turning up a slope. 4wd helps the front tyres grab, especially if the soil is soft rather than slide sideways. Id rather replace tyres rather than slip around. If on pavement removing 4wd makes sense.
When using the loader on these small tractors, using 4x4 is a must. For just bushhogging on fairly level ground, I'd leave it in 4x2, really not reason to have it in 4x4 unless you have steep hills or the ground is really soft.
My RK tractor has a sticker that says do not use four wheel drive on a hill because of what you said, it can cause a roll over.
I plow snow with a tractor commercially. Unless the pavement is dry I'm in 4 wheel drive. It is scary when you hit a snow or ice patch and apply the brake. I'd rather sacrifice the front tires to have even steady braking. .
Your videos are always informative. I don't keep my JD 3032 in 4WD all the time, mainly because my acreages are pretty flat and mainly only use it when in snowy weather. I have fluid in my rear tires which adds a lot of weight to the back end and helps when I am moving stuff with my loader bucket or forks. Without the weight, the rear end will come off the ground and I don't want the extra expense of wheel weights. If I spin with the back tires, I push in the brake peddle halfway. This engages positive rear wheel traction. Do you think it's wrong to have fluid in the rear tires for weight?
Just like having a pistol on your hip,never use it unless you have to!!😅😅
Hey Mike I don’t know if you got a video on ratchet binders but I’ve got a 25 hp Branson tractor what size binder you think I need for hauling my tractor? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
I thought my X738 was full time 4x4. Outside front tire is driven faster than inside front tire or vice versa. My 2025R will definitely tear up the yard if left in 4x4.
Very helpful info!
Great info! If the brakes are applied in front wheel assist, does the drivetrain “brake” the front tires too? (I did see the tractor on a hill with the “log” on the forks). Just want to clarify. Thanks
I generally don't put my tractor into MFWD unless I need it. That's usually when doing loader work.
Didn't john deere and maybe others have a system switch that allows the front axel to engage below 10mph to assist with braking?
ty mike
Is there a difference between mfwd and 4wd?
You’ll tear the grass up in 4wd and get yelled at from the kitchen window.
If going downhill and you feel the tractor lift the rear wheels... lower the front loader SLOWLY to drag the load and regain rear wheel traction. Too suddenly can spin and roll the tractor.
The owners manual don't recommend to keep it on 4WD all the time unless you need it.
Which tractor brand manual?
@vbelbel490 On page 48 and 49 on the Kubota Grand L Manual, it addresses the subject. It specifically warns against having the 4WD engaged on paved roads as it will wear out the front tires quickly. It goes on from there in listing when 4WD is effective for certain jobs.
Maybe I'm missing something, but don't the tires wear regardless? I mean, the point seems to be the front tires are smaller than the back so they rotate more. The increase in rotation wears the front times more than the back - is that right? If so, the tires rotate whether they are in 4WD or 2WD. If I'm understanding all that correctly, I don't see that it makes any difference (2 vs 4) if it's the rotation that causes the wear on the tires. What am I missing??
Most 4 wheel drive actuall turn the front tires, when engaged a little faster and there is some slippage IF on a paved surface will wear the tires, but used in dirt, mud grass, it ain't going to happen !! !
@@wilburfinnigan2142 thank you. So what he's/you are saying is that in 4WD the front tires turn faster than they would in 2WD, thus increasing the revolutions over just being pushed by the rear tires when in 2WD. Hence the increased wear when in 4WD. Is that correct?
Correct
May I suggest. It's not all wheel assists. It’s 4x4. I use it based on the pucker factor. Be glad we can all say holy shit Batman! I know tractors have big wheels on the rear back and combines on the front. Please explain why they place fluid/water in the rear wheels of tractors. Just saying. Great channel….
Kubota GR series has glide-steer
I only used my 4wd when I know I am gonna need it.
Unfortunately and newer tractor with a loader will have to be ran in 4wd most of the time. Way to light on the rear. If the ground is flat 2wd could be used more often.
You are 100% right thanks for the vid.
Never be on a side hill without having checked and ensuring proper air pressure in the tires. 4wd should not cause any negative impact on side hills on dirt or grass.
Tell James to put the tractor in MFWD then turn sharply while on asphalt. The TRACTOR will tell him how unhappy it feels!
So if I’m in 4 wheel drive all the time on dirt how many hours would it take to wear down the front tires thanks
For ever and ever !!!!!
👍
👍👍
I have repaired John Deere and Kubota front axle components - all caused by being left unnecessarily engaged- teeth broken on right angle gears with contingent damage some repeat offenders. Kubota seem the weakest and most expensive. Use good judgment.
Buying new front tires is……. A SUPER SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR SAFETY!!! Most folks that own these small tractors do not have any experience operating machines and as such won’t/can’t think fast enough to keep themselves out of bad situations that not being all wheel drive can promote!!! If you are a ROOKIE….. leave it in 4 wheel drive always. New front tires are much cheaper than a hospital stay or a funeral……….
I mow my semi steep backyard up and down with 4wd otherwise youre going for a ride!
4WD is just like antibiotics or acetaminophen, it's a really bad plan to use them if you don't NEED them, if you don't use it then get stuck, you engage the magic handle and poof your out, if you get stuck in 4WD you're screwed, and the only way to get better traction is to engage the other magic differential lock, then finally push yourself out a bucket pivot length at a time. Do yourself a favor and only use it as needed.
well DUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! BUT if in 4 wheel drive the chance of ever getting stuck is nil !!!!!
Good advice tractor Mike.
Keeping the front wheels engaged constantly will rapidly destroy the front axle. Especially on pavement, which prevents wheel slipping.
BULL$HIT !!!! They are designed to take the load !!!! the only way to prevent wear is to NOT use your tractor, then why have it !!!
i disagree bad advice
Naw I had a small Kubota with a front loader I used around the barn, pasture arena in the mud I never took it out of 4 wheel drive, it would get stuck, and there was no pavement around, used it for about 20 years never wore out tires or had an mechanical issues, and I kept it greased, replaced it with a 25 HP Ne Holland with 4 wheel drive and used it also for many years in 4 wheel drive and never a problem also kept it greased, Also i am surprised you are not aware of your going down hill and not having brakes......you have an emergency brake...just drop the front loader with the load and you will stop !!!! DUUUUHHHHH!!!!!