Queen Elizabeth Class vs Iowa Class Battleships
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- In this episode we're talking about the Queen Elizabeth Class Battleships.
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The scrapping of the Grand Old Lady, HMS Warspite, remains one of the greatest crimes against naval history ever committed, and like you said Ryan, she did not go quietly.
Just seven words condemned her "Approved for HMS Warspite to be scrapped"
She was in bad material condition, though, with one of her turrets inactive, and a large patch in the bottom of her hull, from the German Guided Bomb.
Unfortunately her condition was really bad (just look at the photos of her when she was being disarmed). But thankfully her nameplate and bell were saved. Her captain, Andrew Cunningham kept it hanging in the front of his house until his death (it’s now held privately at Imperial War Museum) and even watched as Warspite was towed away. The nameplate was in a pub near where she ran aground but all sources say it “has since been sold at auction” which means the sale was undocumented and is therefore lost and/or its whereabouts are unknown.
One of Warspite’s guns were used aboard the battleship HMS Vanguard. But unfortunately even her guns were scrapped. I personally think Vanguard should’ve at least been saved, since she would’ve had the only surviving 5.25” turrets, sextuple Bofors, and a gun from Warspite, on top of being the most technologically advanced battleship to ever exist (more than the Iowas). She was also in better condition than any Iowa at the time.
As great a sight as the fast battleships are, I would have traded all four of the Iowas for preserving Enterprise and Warspite. Both ships represented the Naval war for their respective countries. No one can deny their tenacity for survival. The Japanese reported Enterprise sunk so many times during the war it gave rise to the nickname "The Grey Ghost". I know less of Warspite but if the war was based only on the naming of ships, the British would have won single handedly.
@@177SCmaro The Warspite was going to be a tough save, because of her material condition. She had as Ryan pointed out a partial concrete bottom. Enterprise they tried to save, but the money wasn't there. Texas barely got saved. As Ryan said, ships that have a State name or City name had local pride that could help save them, while Enterprise was just a name.
such a shame that HMS Warspite wasn't preserved as a museum. imagine her on the Thames next to Tower Bridge together with HMS Belfast!
I asume that HMS Belfast would not have been preserved if they made HMS Warspite a museum !🤔 Which i would prefer , to be honest !😅
@@christianjunghanel6724 no, had to have a town class as well
@@wierdalien1 Yeah thats how it turned out ,but if they would have made Warspite into a museum, thinks would have played out differently for Belfast ! They were just willingly enough to do Belfast ! No way they would have kept both!
@@christianjunghanel6724 Might have happened, remember that HMS Belfast continued to serve until '63 unlike Warspite, whose underside was mostly concrete when D-Day happened.
Honestly, Warspite is probably one of the IRL occurrences of the Plot Armour trope, but she would take more money to make good after so many emergency repairs that worth. At best, she would have to be a dry dock exhibit
@@LordElpme Yeah who knows 🤷! Still its a shame that no other battleship except the american ones survived😔
It's such a tragedy to naval history that Warspite was not saved as a museum ship. During the Battle of Jutland, Warspite's steering jammed during an aggressive maneuver to avoid a collision with her sister ship HMS Valiant. This caused her to steam in circles thus drawing German fire away from the damaged cruiser HMS Warrior. Warspite took an incredible beating but she saved HMS Warrior. It was almost as if Warspite herself made the decision to save Warrior. Plus she is the first ship to survive an "anti ship" missile attack from Fritz-X bombs. How much awesomeness can one ship achieve!?
The Fritz-X bombs were not a joke, three or four of them sunk one of the Italian Navy's battleships. The Fritz-X bombs however were easily jammed and the wire guided versions were not useful because the bomber launching it would have had to loiter around the combat zone for too long and they would get shot down by enemy fighters. NatGeo had a documentary on this.
The Fritz-X bombs are in a way a preview of the Exocat missile.
I don't know, but if a proper set of qualifications could be put together, the HMS Warspite Award should be created, for "gallant savagery in the face of withering odds".
For context on how warspite is viewed to brits then I'd say we view her the same way Americans view enterprise. Both great ships that took huge beatings repeatedly and yet refused to lose and just carried on truckin no matter how hard they got hit
Yep, and both were basket case, patched-together wrecks by the end of the war, which is why they weren't saved.
They still should have been, though.
@@SealofPerfection Yep, those two are equal first on historic warships that should have been saved. I'd put HMS Dreadnought at third.
I wish Enterprise had gone out the way Warspite did, however.
@@fredsafarowic3149 warspite went out they she served in both world wars. Giving no fucks!!!
Enterprise took beatings. But it was better known as at one point being the only carrier in service across the entire pacific theater.
I think the one you’re looking for is the USS Nevada, which took 2 nukes, 5 days of shelling, and a torpedo to finally sink it.
Between you and Drach today has been a great day for those interested in Naval shipbuilding history. Thanks!
Great to see one of those longer, more detailed videos again, I was a bit underwhelmed by content lately and this is exactly what I was hoping for.
Please do something new in atomic series.
It takes alot to put out the indepth videos, be grateful
ur mom lieks in-depth videos
Ryan, this was excellent! Thank you so much 😊
Replacing coal with oil also means you could - depending on mechanical concerns - potentially maintain a higher speed for longer, because you're not relying on the stamina of your stokers holding up. They're not just feeding the boilers, they've got to move the coal between the bunkers, so that it can be fed.
Once you move that capacity into other classes of ships, and rebuld your network of coaling stations, you then have an improved ability to strategically reposition forces much faster.
Warspite is one of only two battleships to sink a Submarine, during the battle of Narvik her Swordfish spotter plane bombed and sank U-64 although the captain and crew went on to form the kernel of the very successful U-124. The other battleship to sink a submarine was HMS Dreadnought (by ramming).
A great piece as always Ryan, clearly a direct comparison between the two is a bit silly, but they do bare a comparison of the thinking and principles. As an Aside the QEs were nearly built with small tube boilers which would have added about 3-3.5kt to their top speed making them, possibly, true fast battleships.
Narvik. Where a battleship says "I'm not in these fjords with you - you're locked in the fjords with me!"
I recall Peter Cremer, one of the submarine officers, remarked he never expected to be rescued at sea by mountain troops. I suppose the mountain troops could say the same thing about rescuing a sub crew and getting shot at by a battleship.
Totally not in the brochure.
@@mikeynth7919 Have you read Grey Wolff, Grey Sea as well then?
The first ship-launched plane to sink a submarine, before any aircraft carrier.
My favourite QE Class is HMS Warspite. Her first successful attack was against SMS Von der Tann in the maelstrom of the Battle of Jutland and her last, against German positions on Walcheren Island. She scored a direct hit against the (sailing) Italian battleship Giulio Cesare at a range of nearly 15 miles and was the 1st ship to open fire on D Day. She still holds the record for the most battle honours awarded to a single ship of the Royal Navy. Even in her twilight she refused to go to the ship graveyard quietly. While under tow to Faslane to be scrapped, she dropped an anchor and eventually ran aground at St Michaels Mount in Cornwall. There she remained, despite numerous attempts to refloat her until two "experimental" jet engines were brought in and she was moved a grand total of 130ft closer to shore. She finally disappeared from view in 1955. Scrapped on the shore she decided was her place to rest. After thirty two years at sea. Seven and a half of them fighting in two total wars.
@Rob Bowes As HMS Warspite holds a special place in your affections, are you familiar with Lieutenant Commander R A B Mitchell's wonderful poem about her. It's a very fitting tribute to the Grand Old Lady.
The Subject
You say you have no subject
And your brushes all have dried;
But come to Marazion
At the ebbing of the tide.
And look you out to seaward,
Where my Lady battle scarred
Hugs the rock that is more welcome,
Than the shameful breakers yard.
Paint her there upon the sunset
In her glory and despair,
With the diadem of victory
Still in flower upon her hair.
Let her whisper as she settles
Of her blooding long ago,
In the mist than mingles Jutland
With the might of Scapa Flow.
Let her tell you, too, of Narvik
With its snowy hills, and then
Of Matapan, Salerno
And the shoals of Walcheren;
And finally of Malta,
When along the purple street
Came in trail the Roman Navy
To surrender at her feet.
Of all these honours conscious,
How could she bear to be
Delivered to the spoiler
Or severed from the sea ?
So hasten then and paint her
In the last flush of her pride
On the rocks of Marazion,
At the ebbing of the tide.
I believe that the Warspite holds the record (and likely always will) for the longest range artillery hit on a moving, maneuvering opponent. She was never modernized to the same extent as Valiant or Queen Elizabeth. It is too bad that Britain simply didn't have the resources or time to modernize the Revenge class ships which were somewhat better armoured than the Queen Elizabeths.
@@stephengardiner9867 Didn't even have the funds to upgrade Barham and Malaya, much less the R class ships. And both Rodney and Nelson were due for major mid-life refits when the war started.
True. The British economy had not truly recovered from the previous war and the great depression. It is interesting to envision what American shipyards might have been able to do with these ships had the funding been available early-war. They did occasionally do heavy repair work on British warships. One British light cruiser (Delhi) had its main armament replaced by 5x 5" 38 cal. D.P. guns (turrets and all) giving it quite a unique appearance (and the broadside of a Fletcher class destroyer). @@timclaus8313
@in desperate need of a scotch The USN had the same in-class and between class variations based on whether ships were sunk at Pearl. Colorado did not receive all the mods Maryland did, but no US standard battleship received the modifications and upgrades West Virginia did. You can easily make the case it was by far the most capable pre-treaty battleship of any navy after it's rebuild. When it returned to service in '44 it was pretty much a slow version of a South Dakota battleship. Tennessee and California also received extensive rebuilding and upgrades, none of the New Mexicos received the same level of increased AA firepower.
If you are in a fair fight your tactics suck. Those 15 in guns would not tickle. An opening salvo from a Queen Elizabeth would still make an Iowa have a very bad day. That relevance with a twenty year design gap on a platform that big is still impressive. On smaller scales the gap matters less. The ma deuce is a hundred years old, and the last M2 gunner has yet to be born. Great vid.
Another great video from the battleship. Thanks
The QE class was superbly balanced for their day, and even in WW2 their armament was quite respectable. Against most any WW2 battleship, though, their armor, gun range, and gunnery accuracy would leave them at a massive disadvantage which they could not overcome.
Given that the warspite still holds the record for longest hit in a lot harder situation compared to the other record holder I don't think you can fault their accuracy
2 world wars and only one lost, that to 4 torpedos hitting in rapid succession in a very small area (Barham). Unlikely any WWI era battleship without extensive rework could have survived the strike that caused Barham to capsize. The QE was a pretty advanced design for the time.
@@mcduck5 Longest CONFIRMED hit. There is strong evidence that Scharnhorst hit HMS Glorious at a longer distance. Also, you fire enough rounds and eventually you'll get lucky. These 15" guns were not known for great accuracy compared to later ones. At 23 knots, I would not consider them a fast battleship influencer as 23 has no real measurable advantage over 21 knots. The true fast battleship line is around 26 or 27 knots.
@@mcduck5 and Giulio Cesare had a very advanced optical sighting system, their salvoes was straddling Warspite three minutes into the fight.
@@TheStefanskoglund1 So? Yamato had a near miss against an escort Carrier at much longer range Near miss doesn't matter.
I know others have done a detailed look at Warspite, but I would still like to hear Ryan do one. I especially would like to know his opinion on taking a battleship into the confines of a Fiord (2nd battle of Narvik) something I would imagine your not ment to do.
The Royal Navy had a habit of doing some truly crazy things during WW2.
I'd love to hear a historian's opinion of Warspite. My Grandpa was damage control officer on her during the bombardment of Salerno when she was hit by the radio controlled bomb. He talks about it some in a conversation with the Imperial War Museum at www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80024892.
Small tube boilers would've given the qe class 28 ish knots. That would most deffinately have made them fully fledged fast battleships. They could've done it too but chose not to
It's more Fisher was convinced by industry that it wouldn't make a difference. Until they tried on it something else
Very new and not proven technology when the design decision was made.
@@iancarr8682 ehhh
46-47 degrees of elevation gives the best range. Lower air density in the upper atmosphere slows the shells less so they fall further out.
Is it possible to quantify how much better the Iowa is today than when it was first commissioned?
A "What if New Jersey Was In Place of Warspite at Narvik or Calabria?" would make for a good future video.
NJ would get stuck. I'm pretty sure she's literally too big to get in to Narvik and make the turns necessary to get out again.
Any other battleship or battlecruiser would have been sunk at Narvik. Bringing such a large ship into the narrow confines of a fjord against 9 destroyers and 2 submarines (plus 2 more submarines waiting outside and did fire off torpedoes at Warspite as they exited) is outright irresponsible, and everyone was prepared for the loss of the capital ship. The crew knew this too, for in the news, before they went in, they simply called her an "old battleship and veteran of Jutland" despite being modernised. But Warspite is magic, and all the torpedoes failed, one U-boat sunk, another rammed the seabed and aborted her attack, and the 2 outside had torpedo failures.
We love the Warspite.
At oil burners, they can sustain their speed longer than coal-fired ships that need manual stokers, though.
I've heard of them referred to as a superdreadnaught.
Ryan, I'm always one of the first and most vocal about arguing that Texas is never going to be brought back to service. I feel it's Ludacris to even think about that. However, the iowas may be a different story.
In my opinion, what killed the conventional steam powered plants was when OPEX raised the price of oil to a point that Bunker C increased 10 fold. These steam systems burned oil like it was water. They depended on cheap fuel to make them practical. So, to bring back these ships they would have to be repowered. One option for that would be a Nuclear Reactor. However, the problem with any form of repowering it would require cutting through a lot of armor. But, there might be a way to get around that. Being that they've already been converted to fire missiles they probably don't need 9 16 inch guns. So, they could remove one turret and put a reactor there. I believe with today's technology a reactor large enough to duplicate their power afforded them by their conventional oil burning system in that space. Before you pass judgment on my idea, please realize going in that I know it isn't going to happen. This is just another discussion point if interest. But I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
OPEC, not OPEX. Damn auto correct.
Lets see on British BB. They serve beer and rum to the ratings. The officers also get hard spirts.
USN Ships. No booze.
Winner British BB.
US ships have ice cream though.
@@atfyoutubedivision955 good point. We can trade ice cream for booze.
@@studinthemaking I'm pretty sure that's what they did during WW2.
Don't know if you've done any other Iowa comparisons, but matching the Iowas against other contemporaries would be a better test than against QE. Maybe Bismarck, Yamato, Richelieu, Littorio, or Vanguard. They were all the last of their respective navies, and were the best designs they produced, although Vanguard was limited by decisions made after the design, especially her guns, but still a better choice than a KGV.
with regards to longevity - if the US would have been just as broken moneywise as England was in 1945 all the BB and cruisers too would have been sent to the breaker.
Interesting , Thank You
Warspite!!!
Idk, while I do & did enjoy the history lesson it didn't really feel as though you were making a comparison of the 2 different types. However, considering that the Iowa class battleships basically had a different use during WW2 than the Queen Elizabeth & the Iowa Class was like you said 20 years newer so it's not really fair to compare the 2.
Are you comparing their as-built numbers, or their post-1930s modernisation numbers with the new machinery and added bunkerage? The 5000nmi @ 12kts range seems quite low.
That 10,000 ton increase to achieve the increased speed of a fast battleship...where does that put the North Carolinas and the South Dakotas, relative to the Iowas?
The North Carolinas and SoDaks were designed to be capable of 28 knots. Of course North Carolina and Washington had their vibration issues, so they were able to get up to their design speed, but...
Both classes were 35,000 ton ships, the Iowas we're able to hit their 33 knot design speed and their design displacement was 45,000 tons.
NC's also where 'designed' for 14" guns and for a USN battleship philosophy not really that well protected considering their own upgunningto 16"/45 with super heavy AP. SD was a correction to that, resulting in very compact ships to be able to devote more weight to armour. Iowa is basically a stretch-out SD, with no self-imposed limitations and fielding 16"/50s.
@@Tuning3434 Yep. North Carolina and Washington were designed with three quad 14" turrets. As was common practice in that day, each turret lost one gun to go from 14" to 16" guns when Japan pulled out of the London Treaty (IIRC) limitations. If the King George V class ships hadn't been too far along in their construction, they would have had three triple 16" turrets as well...
That would have been a nice upgrade for the KGVs, but they were damn impressive with ten 14" guns anyway.
How would the Iowa-class battleships hold up against a Kirov-class battlecruisers? If they were recommissioned and end up facing the Russian fleet. What would be her main mission role?
The battle citations of Warspite alone make all the Iowas irrelevant. They were launched in a different world of nukes, jets, and carriers … the zenith of battleship design was already obsolete and never used to its full potential.
At least Warspite didn’t end up in a scrapyard. That’s something, at least.
I think you should do a video on Warspite just for the name alone, add in everyhting else, and it's a no brainer
If the sea was dead calm the Iowa would have a chance but any kind of a swell, even a little one, and the Iowa would be like a drunk trying to land a punch on Ali.
That is a lie. All it has to do is stay out of its gun range, wait till it goes to port to resupply, and pummel it while it stands still.
Brains.
So the Iowa wins. Cool. As expected of the best battleship class of the world.
Better models to compare them to was the USS Texas, USS Nevada. Battleships built around the same time as the Queen Elizabeth.
The USS Nevada, much like the place, doesn’t know when to stop partying, that’s why it took two nukes and still floated.
Very comparable in that they were the best battleships of their respective eras
tbh, the Queen Elizabeth class is more comparable with the Japanese Ise, Fuso, Nagato and Tosa classes. the nearest US class is the Standard, though the QE's were, imo easily superior.
at least the Warspite had a poem written for her -
You say you have no subject
And your brushes all have dried;
But come to Marazion
At the ebbing of the tide.
And look you out to seaward,
Where my Lady battle scarred
Hugs the rock that is more welcome,
Than the shameful breakers yard.
Paint her there upon the sunset
In her glory and despair,
With the diadem of victory
Still in flower upon her hair.
Let her whisper as she settles
Of her blooding long ago,
In the mist than mingles Jutland
With the might of Scapa Flow.
Let her tell you, too, of Narvick
With its snowy hills, and then
Of Matapan, Salerno
And the shoals of Walcheren;
And finally of Malta,
When along the purple street
Came in trail the Roman Navy
To surrender at her feet.
Of all these honours conscious,
How could she bear to be
Delivered to the spoiler
Or severed from the sea?
So hasten then and paint her
In the last flush of her pride
On the rocks of Marazion,
At the ebbing of the tide.
"The Subject" by Lieutenant-Commander R.A.B.Mitchell
Mighty Mo would lay waste to it.
That's not really a fair comparison, two different generation of ships
👍👍
Britain should of saved a dreednought battleship as museum
Those guns
Canadian Battleship
th-cam.com/video/F-glHAzXi_M/w-d-xo.html
👍👍👍👊
Very entertaining vid from Jingles (ex-RN) on Warspites history: th-cam.com/video/07WXmSpUzns/w-d-xo.html - he spends 50 mins on her story whilst we watch a model of her in World of Warships games.
Gunboat diplomacy
WHAAAZAAAAAAHHH??!?!
How would you know that Bayern/Baden were inferior battleships? They had such a short life span and no opportunity to show their worth. I mean, the QEs had a long career and some of them an impressive schedule but that doesn´t make them the better ships.
The German Navy is typically a joke
Agincourt is pronounced Agincore. Not being a smart arse just letting you know.
The Queen Elizabeth Class were not nearly as good looking as the Iowas
Can't argue with the exploits of Warspite. Her battle honours are heavily loaded towards steaming balls out in harms way against moving, armoured adversaries. Perhaps the most significant BB in terms of sheer ass kickery...
And a very cool name!
@in desperate need of a scotch You got a belly laugh from me.
aye, to see two world wars and was still very effective (would have said formidable but didn't want to provoke "not a CV" replies :p ) in ww2 is a feat, she seemed to be everywhere
@@LordElpme Warspite sunk a ship with her plane, therefore she is a CV too.
I'm glad you mentioned the complexity and amount of expertise that go into major caliber guns. Most people don't understand just how much brainpower, effort, and skill goes into designing and manufacturing a gun that can fire a 2,000lb shell 30,000yds+ accurately.
If I remember right, when the Iowa and New Jersey engaged the IJN Nowaki at about 21mi, the FIRST SALVO was a straddle. Pretty impressive I would say.
Yep. American and British fire control achieved near perfection towards the end of the war.
To be fair, the Queen Elizabeth class would’ve won every engagement with an Iowa from 1914 to 1943
LOL 🤣
Like Ryan he is always respectful like Drach, he could just have went off dissing warspite as she was an older design and smaller
The ghost of Warspite would haunt New Jersey, you do not want to piss off the old lady, she had beached a ship carrying her own scrap.
A drink to HMS Warspite, the greatest Brtitish warship in history. Shame they scrapped her instead of turning her into a museum ship.
"Captain, there's a World War I battleship coming at us kind of slow. Just 23 knots."
"So we've got them outclassed in every respect. This should be easy"
"Sir, it's the Warspite"
"Oh!"
Brilliant, love it !
**"Belli dulla despicio!" intensifies***
God help them if it was New Zealand...
I love these longer history type videos! Ryan is really knowledgable.
This will be good. My Great-Grandfather served on HMS Barham during WW1, including the Battle of Jutland, and HMS Malaya in the 1920s.
The destruction video of HMS Barham is unbelievable, and hard to watch.
@Michael Jackson The Guilty Child Molester Thanks. That was
the video I was thinking of.
Jutland was the greatest Naval battle in history. That's something to be proud of.
I think it would be interesting to compare/contrast Warspite to New Jersey, especially considering they are the most decorated Battleship from each nation respectively.
Yes! and lets not make it a Versus video either. There's too much X > Y and we should remember they were on the same team and achieved similar goals with differing approaches.
It's too different a thing though... New Jersey is a great ship but mainly participated in conflicts rather than actually fought the way Warspite did. There's nothing wrong with that but they just don't compare for the most part.
The history of the HMS Warspite would be a wonderful video to watch. The more detail the better… but I don’t know how many others would be as in to it as I, so I understand. She had a truly legendary career.
Well done!
Drach did this video very early in his video career: th-cam.com/video/t-_ExMo0g-s/w-d-xo.html
@@tcpratt1660 Outstanding! Thanks for that! I was just wondering if perhaps he had done something like this. Headed there right now!
@@OldStreetDoc Don't know how close you follow Drach, but some great recommendations are his series on the Pearl Harbour salvage operations, there is a great interview with Captain Larry Seaquist (USS Iowa captain in '80s) and his coop with Matt Warwick on the KGV's development history was eye-opening for me.
I think it’s matter of national shame that Warspite (and others) were not preserved
@@matthayward7889 Agreed. So many missed opportunities due to short sighted decisions
Having the same last name of one of the Queen Elizabeth class battleships HMS Barham is cool, but her fate during WW2 was heartbreaking to learn.
damn that sucks bro
Would I be correct in assuming the Queen Elizabeth whom this class is named after would be Queen Elizabeth I, the monarch that reigned during the defeat of the Spanish Armada?
The Tudor queen, yes. This is reflected in the ship's crest, which features a Tudor rose.
Just to clarify, four battleships made a Division in the Grand Fleet, not a Squadron. The subsequent R class battleships were authorised as an 8 ship class, the five as built with the last 3 the original Renown and Repulse to the R class design and the eighth cancelled which was to be called Resistance. The last 3 were changed in design or cancelled when it was decided that no more battleships would be laid down as it was thought the war wouldn't last long.
I'd definitely like one on the Warspite. I'm sure Drach has a video on her, but it would be cool to see your take as well. I've really gotten hooked on this type of video over the last year, keep up the excellent work.
The fact that Warspite wasn't kept as a museum ship is a fucking travesty, and remains to this day one of the greatest crimes in naval history.
Yeah, but the British were broke after 6 years of war and had to sell everything they could to fund the development of three different types of large jet powered bombers that could nuke the Soviets.
@@Dave_Sisson Just as bad as Enterprise not being kept
Thank the ani english politicians.
A video on why naval guns have such a long lead time and take so long to build would be very interesting.
I'd love to see a history of HMS Warspite. Ditto for the other ships in the class, but especially Warspite.
Drach has you covered until Ryan’s version: th-cam.com/video/t-_ExMo0g-s/w-d-xo.html
Very entertaining vid from Jingles on Warspites history: th-cam.com/video/07WXmSpUzns/w-d-xo.html - think I'll repeat this as a main comment.
th-cam.com/users/results?search_query=drachinifel+Queen+Elizabeth. try this.
Drach and Dr Clarke have interesting theories about the unbuilt 6th ship Agincourt.
That run counter to each other amusingly
Great ships for sure. Maybe the New Mexico class was comparable as warships but the Queen Elizabeth Class certainly wins on practical execution of her design. They still packed a potent punch and were used as front line ships 25 years after launch, a remarkable testament to their design.
Queen Elizabeth is the pinnacle of 1910s battleship tech versus Iowa which is peak 1940s battleship tech so Iowa should be able to land hits better due to superior fire control. If Iowa's tech was grafted onto Elizabeth or Iowa was reduced to 1916 fire control then the outcome isn't certain. QEs can take a hit and give them, too.
One thing QE class has going for it is that at least when they were flagships of the Grand Fleet the battleship was still the final arbiter, whereas when Iowas were launched they were no longer battle deciders and were arguably irrelevant in terms of their designed purpose. Repurposed as support vessels they certainly provided value, but Iowas were never going to duke it out with Yamato or Musashi. The bombers and fighters from the carriers would smack up the Japanese ships before Iowas even got in sniffing distance for the 16 inch guns to fire.
Iowas should be compared to Vanguard, the QEs were ancient.
@@DeliveryMcGee And yet they were still kicking arse and taking names
A lot of people don't seem to realize (or admit) that the big gun battleships were obsolescent by the 1940s. Not completely obsolete yet, but the Iowa class and contemporaries absolutely represent the sunset of battleship-on-battleship engagements.
Air power both in terms of the aircraft themselves and their carrier ships advanced so quickly throughout the war, by it's end the carrier and carrier based aircraft really were the decisive factor.
Recognizing that fact and moving away from the heavily armored gun platforms towards aircraft carriers must've been difficult for a lot of the more old school naval leadership.
@@michaelathens953 its not that simple really, yes air power was becoming dominate, but the free space, and weight, the big gun battleships had compared to destroyers or cruisers allowed them to be utterly packed full of sensors and guns without being a detriment to its fighting capability. There is a reason why destroyers utterly ballooned in size after the war
@Sergei Pohkerova Most things considering fire control etc were upgraded on ships. There is a reason why QE class and Scharnhorst have the longest scored (two side confirmed) hits of 24+km range on moving ships.
Yamato has (only confirmed by US side, Japan destroyed the documents) a 31km stradle that actually did dmg and not just splash. Shell went under the escort CV and exploaded, disabling compleatly its power for some time) and confirmed 19km (if im not mistaken) DD hit with main guns (no one hit a DD till that time from such range with BB).
US had overall the poorest longest hits confirmed on BB class ships.
QE was nowhere match a Yamato or Iowa class BB's in terms of protection and gun's. But they still could shoot as accurate, as core systems were upgraded through time. Specially that US went out in WW2 with kinda poor long range scored hits in their BB's.
If ever a warship should have been saved. It's Warspite
I’ve ever there were 3 ships should’ve been preserved it was HMS Warsprite, USS Enetrprise CV-6, and HMS Rodney for the Bismarck battle.
Interesting fact about these ships is that there was a movement to have them built with small tube boilers rather than the large tube boilers they were given. If this had happened then this class would have been capable of 27-28 kts thus making them true fast battleships
It would have been interesting to see the world reacting to this monster.
A battleship not only much heavier armed and better armoured than anything else on the ocean, but also able to run down battlecruisers?
That would have shaken things up.
On the other hand, it would have been a great risk. Small tube boilers were bleeding edge technology at the time, and if they hadn't worked as hoped, it would have left the royal navy with a bunch of extremely expensive lame ducks that spent most of their service life in drydock having their engines fixed for the &%")@+*%/-th time.
@@Bird_Dog00 This is true but the RN at the time already had such a superiority over any conceivable opponent plus the Japanese alliance so the risk could have been taken. This was always Fisher's dream a warship more powerful than any ship afloat with a speed able to run down cruisers
Knowing the British fetish for recordkeeping those pre designs blueprints should exist somewhere unless something extraordinary.
Just putting it in perspective: The age difference between the QE-class and the Iowas are about the same as the Mustang and the F-15.
Good god, I never thought of it like that!
... or if comparing the Lancaster to the Vulcan. Only about 11 years!
@@kevg3320 it still amazes me that there were pilots who flew both types operationally! I’m lucky to have a preserved Vulcan so near I can hear it’s engine runs, and see BBMF lancasters fly over head a couple of times a year
However Warspie had plot armour, which as you know is almost impossible to defeat.
"Queen Anne Mansion-style superstructure" I wonder who coined that description?
Queen Anne Mansions was an apartment block in London, people who did not like the rebuilt high rise superstructure in the QEs made fun of its resemblance to the apartment block.
@@Dave_Sisson I see... thanks for the explanation!
Would the Iowa survive a Fritz-X 😑
Completely different era and concept of ships. The Iowa class is nearly 30 years more modern that the QE class.
hmm, the main difference is the power plant, it happened things with that between 1915 and 1935. Iowa class is based on components from the mid-late 30s
while QE class had designs from 1912s.
@@TheStefanskoglund1 There are plenty more differences, the QEs were built when oil power was considered revolutionary and the plane was recently invented.
The Brits had some very cool battleship names - Warspite, Iron Duke, Valiant, Vanguard... Warspite is the coolest though.
And all of the Revenge class: Revenge, Royal Oak, Royal Sovereign, Ramillies, and Resolution. Most of those names are straight out of the age of sail.
Ryan's anecdote about the Iowas trying to hit a destroyer at long range reminds me too much of me trying to hit an annoying DD with any of my battleships in WOWS.
Sounds like me in my Queen Elizabeth Battleship that I pretend is Warspite because I'm to much of a peasant to buy the actual premium Warspite.
A detailed History of Warspite? sign me up, maybe collab episode with Drach?
Why are you comparing HMS Warspite with USS Iowa? 1914 vs 1942? Compare them with the USS Texas which is also from 1914...
Otherwise Compare the USS Iowa with HMS Vanguard to be Fair...
Not sure who suggested this comparison. It's quite obvious a battleship built 30 odd years after the QE class with larger guns (and more of them), thicker armour and about twice the displacementl, is going to over match the QE class.
RE the range of Royal Navy ships: 5000 miles is all they needed due to the Empire being so vast, they were never more than 5000 miles away from a port they could coal up at. So why design for more range?
One reason is the Abyssinian crisis of 1935-36. Britain could no longer assume that their lands won't be captured by the enemy.
Good evening, I was wondering Is there any chance Ryan could go over this new Chinese Fujian "super" carrier? And how it differs from current U.S Models?
Warspite was very much "local battleship to angry to die"
Nope, that was the USS Nevada.
Please talk about eh Queen Anne's Mansion superstructures. That was a common characteristics of British BB in WW2 and I'd like to know why?
He has a video on the NelRods
Maybe Queen Anne didn't have much imagination when she designed her warships!!
Queen Anne Mansions was an apartment block in London, people who did not like the rebuilt high rise superstructure in the QEs made fun of its resemblance to the apartment block
@@Dave_Sisson
Ah! Thanks.
@@Dave_Sisson thanks. Do you have any information of the benefits of this design characteristics?
Omg. I must stay up.
here's my thought...the British ships were designed in 1912-4...the Iowas were designed in the late 1930's...that's not really a fair comparison.
How about HMS Vanguard vs IOwas?
Vanguard had guns recycled from WW1.
Can certainly respect the Germans for what they attempted to accomplish by building up the high seas fleet in the run up to World War I and the ships that they commissioned during the war. However, I don’t think that there could be any doubt that the queen Elizabeths would’ve picked off the high seas fleet bit by bit had the war lasted longer and the high seas fleet sortied out more often. No matter how you slice it 12 inch guns were just not going to cut it
H.M.S. Warspite and U.S.S. Enterprise sailing together in warship Heaven.
The Barham magazine didn’t explode, the explosion that you see in the film is the main boilers exploding since they were still operating when she capsized and they came into contact with the sea water running down the funnels. If it was the magazine the explosion would have occurred more forward than what the film show.
I think you should review the film of the HMS Barham again. If you observe the explosion it appears to occur at the point in-line with the aft mast just in front of the no 3 turret. Also it was stated and recorded The "Board of Inquiry" into the sinking ascribed the final explosion to a fire in the 4-inch magazines outboard of the main 15-inch magazines, which would have then spread to and detonated the contents of the main magazines." People not familiar with naval vessels don't realize that battleships have secondary guns. Those magazines are located along the side of the hull. And it was stated that all 3 torpedoes fired by U331 struck so close together amidships on the port side, penetration and detonation of those magazines is highly probable.
@@AngryMarine-il6ej Not to mention a boiler explosion wouldn’t have been nearly as energetic, nor would it produce a huge column of black smoke from burning propellant.
How would a boiler explosion not trigger the magazines? This is what the footage shows - a chain of two bursts with different intensity and colour.
I deleted my comment because it became a pissing contest with two idiots
Oh wow Canada considered building 3 battleships...damn the people in Quebec would have flipped out and protested like mad if this had become public knowledge back in the 1910s. Look up the Naval Bill Crisis during Prime Minister Wilford Laurier's administration.
Also did Canada even have the industrial capacity to do this?
As a Canadian History teacher this really makes me curious?
Would like to see some comparisons to unbuilt Japanese designs like Kii or No. 13
I wonder how the Howe would have measured up with the Iowa class?